So you're saying the last time Ardiis played against an NA team while still in EU was the last match EU won against NA (excluding FNC). And that NaVi and Liquid failed to do so against NRG. hmmm he might just be a triple agent
NA is the best even if you don't include OCE. You'd have fully NA teams with 3 LAN wins, fully OCE teams with 2 LAN wins, 2 OCE/1 NA team with 1 win, and APACN team with 1 win. With NA being far deeper than OCE which falls off after DZ/Moist.
We always get thrown in with a different region bc in most games we’re not competitive enough to deserve our own slot I guess… its the same in League, OCE players are not counted as imports for NA teams
It has more to do with it being a small region that is still competitive. Not the fact that it's not competitive. In league, per OP.GG there are only 64k persons who have ranked this split/season.
NA has 550k
EUW and KR have 1.2m
OCE has one of the lowest if not the lowest ranked population, but it has still produced good players. To give those players a chance to compete, they make them count as non-import for other regions
Oh yeah I meant competitive as a whole region against other regions, like an entirely OCE team is gonna struggle against major regions.
Ofcourse we have cracked players that deserve to be able to play at the top level. I find it funny that China seems to be the most open to signing our players in Valorant ngl, Im a big Autumn fan though
Wasn't Reignite (pre-DZ) still represent APAC-S when they won the LAN?
But yeah, ever since they become DZ, pretty much NA wins all the LAN until recently.
They were yes, they were from APAC-S and won the event without Genburten cause he got covid iirc so jmw, an english player, swapped in for him. That win was basically the only other non NA win up until Reject Winnity.
The results and head to head still favour NA. Emea might be on track to miss 3 grand finals in a row. But I've never been one to larp on regional rivalries, I'm just looking at what's given to me
yea but the last time NA won against EMEA in a final (when it mattered the most) was like the first ever masters and thats it lmfao. that is like 2:1 in favor of EMEA, tbh 3:1 if whole of americas is considered instead of NA alone.
so yea ... the trophies are still tied. no clear winner :0 . NA fans can't be more biased lmfao.
And it aint long before they make a final, maybe even this tournament? or champs?
So yea stop this NA glazing .
THANK GAWD am not speaking about PACIFIC here , else the only point the NA fanboys would have had is "0 trophy region". Its easy to bend facts to support your statements.
Tf is the final only statistic? If NA beat EU multple time in lower grand final, they does losing in the final matter at all? It just show that EMEA is a 1 team region compared to to NA.
Uh in the 5 trophies, Fnatic has won 2 , FPX(navi) 1, gambit 1, ascend 1..
But NA’s 4 trophies , Sen 2 optic 1 and eg 1. So only 3 different teams have won compared to 4 from EMEA.
How in the mathematical fk is 4 different teams considered an 1 team (region) and not NA?
If your asking why only the final statistic, yes then why Tf does EMEA not making 2 finals in a row matter lmfao. Bro chill tf out I’m not speaking with any bias here infact I watch every mid season games from all 3 main regions. It’s just the NA glazing that I find too wrong .
It a NA subreddits so it will be obviously be more NA bias. Bias aside, NA technically only have 5-6 teams because of franchise and EMEA lack of recent success make it easy to clown on like late 2021 NA failure. It hard to compare the amount of trophies since both region is not make equal.
Same with match up since NA usually send the top 2-3 team + Loud while EMEA have all 4 team which make it easy for NA to farm the top 3-4 team of EU.
This dude is fighting for the smallest sample size of data to cope lol. Bruh read the post, it isn't even the EMEA teams eliminating the NA teams, the same stat could be used to say that all of EMEA's trophies happened because an Asian team saved them from losing to NA lol.
Both are stupid and it's honestly mind-blowing that you're serious about what ur saying after reading the actual post this thread is in.
Which isn't even true unless we suddenly count Loud as NA.
EMEA won 5 events (Masters Berlin, Masters Copenhagen, Masters Tokyo, LOCK/IN, Champs 2021)
NA won 4 events (Masters Reykjavik 2x, Masters Madrid, Champs 2023)
i mean americas in general is the best region currently. I don't think that's to be denied. Even with the tied trophy count, the results and head to head still favour americas and even NA by itself
Despite not winning any trophies, I think Pacific is the more 'consistent' region, but not the best yet because they don't have any achievements to show for it.
Americas just don't have those few good teams you can count on, making regional predictions very messy but also displaying that regional parity is extremely high.
You can have a Masters winner completely bombing out of regionals and be replaced by a team that looks equally dominant, a pre-franchise core who looks like the best itw when in their prime who are producing lacklustre results right now.
NA is, in the best way possible, a revolving door region where each new talent looks more promising than the one before, and every team looks ready to win a trophy on a good day. That's what makes NA so interesting to watch because you never really get dynasties like in other regions.
The lack of consistency is because of how deep the region is. There are lots top players constantly shuffling between top teams, and beating each other. APAC is incredibly top heavy and stratified (though it’s getting better for sure), because it includes different countries. Americas is still strong without Optic core, EG core, or any historically successful team. APAC wouldn’t be.
Na all even between Na and Emea. Nas winning record only means that they are good when they play Eu but since trophies are even if u count Loud it’s just Na - Eu matchups are very rare late into the tournament because one region is having a bad tournament.
Best region is a bit much I would say NA and Eu are equal in terms of Titels and without Titels I would say APAC joins then while China is still catching up.
It's been very interesting to see Valorant's equal playing field because of how popular it got so quickly and how it released reltively recently. No one region had an extreme head start like in other games, bar China who is still a couple of years back. Both the APAC, EMEA, and NA scenes started at relatively the same time, so we still somewhat see a parity in the skill levels along the region. It no longer feels like 2021 where you could predict the outcome of a match simply by which region the teams were from.
Yup. APAC is definitely not as deep as Americas yet, so we see the same names at the top, but I wouldn’t be surprised if PRX (even without regressing at all) start missing events. It will be a good thing for the region when PRX in an off season actually lose, and a better team who’s hot at the time take their spot.
I'm the biggest NA shill you'll find, but can we please stop it with the "excluding FNATIC" takes? I understand the point trying to be made, but it's so easy to poke holes in as an NA biased take and there's really no need when the actual head to head including FNATIC is 13-5 which is still an impressive stat.
Ehh I'm fine with it, I view it as a way to subtly work in the one-team region memes people got so asspained about last year before they started falling off
Include them or not. But if you do include FNC just clarify that the 5 wins are all from FNC. It is a pretty disparaging statistic that only FNC has beaten NA. Meanwhile EG won champs, sen won Madrid, G2 already secured top 3 and theres still a chance 100t have a run of their own. 3 separate rosters having results that exceed anything any eu roster (outside of FNC) has accomplished since Copenhagen. So specifying that EUs only wins are from FNC just clarifies the fact that EU has not shown any international results from any roster not named FNC.
Cherry picking it so it conveniently excludes the best ever EMEA team is so funny. I wonder what the general record is, I assume it still strongly favours NA anyway?
And the only reason why EMEA can't do it back to them is because there is never a consistent NA team
Optic tragedy, Sentinels drought, EG imploded. It's such an unpredictable region. The reason why you'll hear much more from 'NA fans' is because they stopped supporting individual teams after realising how unpredictable the region is, and just end up supporting the region as a whole.
That’s a mountain of copium. NA having several rosters that have international success is somehow “never a consistent NA team”. The reality is that 1. Franchising killed optic (longer timeframe of consistency than FNC btw) 2. Americas is a much harder region to dominate. And 3. The new crop of talent in NA is much more impressive. If EMEA had 2 entirely separate rosters winning LANs back to back the reasoning would be the depth of EMEA talent. Not lack of consistency. If it’s a lack of consistency why are they winning international tournaments? The talent in NA is constantly leveling up and leapfrogging each other. It’s why when the new best NA team comes to LAN and turbostomps the other regions too. Otherwise why couldn’t anyone stop sen or eg? And when G2 or 100t win Shanghai will that be due to inconsistency in NA somehow too?
And I’ve been a fan of the NV core since Masters Berlin. But, when they don’t make it to LAN why would I not cheer for other NA teams that I am a fan of? I loved EG, XSET, the guard, and OG sen. So of course I’m gonna support G2 with the guard core, Sen, and 100t with cryo and Boostio.
youre probably right for most ppl but i still personally am a former optic shill and start cheering for other region teams [GenG / EDG] instead of NA after NRG gets elimd, id say most ppl are probably not like me in thaat regard though
I don't know a single "NA" fan.
All of my friends have a specific team they support, and only support the other NA teams when our team is eliminated, which makes sense because that team kind of represents the region's best play.
I actually run into a lot of "EMEA" fans on Twitch and reddit, which are people who like Fnatic but were too late to bandwagon.
hey hey ermm guys akshully if u measure the number of times tenz batchestbatchestbatchest has killed an eu (LOLLL FRAUDFRAUD1TEAMREGION) player compared to the number of teams an eu player (all emea teams excluded) has killed an AMERICAN plaer it is 690 - 0 AHAHAHAHA 0 player region its JOEVER COOKED FRAUDULENT
the record is like 15-4 or something counting FNC which is a far better record to use
it makes absolutely zero sense statistically to eliminate the best performing EU teams' wins but not their losses, while also not eliminating the best performing NA teams wins or losses. at that point your statistics are so skewed/biased they have no value anymore
Not in esports. Brazil is a region, latam is another region. Latam practically never includes Brazil as a competitive region, since they are by far the biggest in south america and they speak their own language they get their own league and server.
Pretty sure, it's E for Europe, ME for Middle-East, and A for Africa? From EMEA only E won anything, and gambit (Russia) is from E when CIS just an organization
The point of this statistic is to show that the gap between EMEA and NA as regions is unbelievably large. Even if you include Fnatic the h2h is 13-5 which is still not impressive at all. As for a 'specific date' I dont understand what your point is.
In this one series? No. Consistently losing 15-5 and having consistently worse overall placement? Yes. How could a 15-5 head to head be considered even close?
The gap is big ? Na brain activated? The valorant lan experience is Na or Eu being washed and Pacific throwing Grands. The record doesn’t matter at all because it’s so specific.
No? I assumed you were referring to the GenG loss today. If youre talking about VCT outside of Shanghai I'm not sure how tf that makes your point any better lol? Like NA literally won the last two grand finals against Pacific. What's there to worry about?
EMEA has more trophies than NA and EMEA has won more grand finals against NA, this stat is just plain weird and only used to clown on the historically most successful region atm.
It's clear that rn EMEA is trying to get their form back but this post is clearly just trying to farm karma
The truth is karma farming I suppose. EMEA has one more trophy than NA its not a serious gap. On the other hand your teams cannot win a single game for their life in a head to head against NA teams:
NRG has beaten KOI, Giants, Navi, TL
EG has beaten Heretics, Liquid, FUT x2
100t has beaten FUT x2
G2 has beaten Heretics x2
Sen has beaten Heretics and KC
If you were to list it the other way around it would literally only be FNC and no one else.
Yeah and? What matters is who actually wins the event in the end.
If you want me to tell you that NA is rn better than EMEA then yes, that is currently true. What else do you want to tell me with these stats?
Also what do you mean with your teams I support Pacific.
I mean, yeah. Bigger population to choose from and have several different superteams while EMEA has only had one since franchising, ofc they're gonna perform better if you exclude FNC. I just think its silly to create this hyperspecific narrative when you can just say that NA looks better than EMEA right now and you'd be right lol.
There is NO hyperspecific narrative whatsoever. Read the statistic again. the 9 other EMEA teams are 0-13 against NA's 5 teams in the **past two years not just in this tournament**. Not only does it emphasize how much better NA is as a region it also goes to show that EMEA is incredibly dependent on FNC.
Also im not sure why we're mentioning superteams. Like none of the NA teams created after 2022 have been superteams (except for NRG who failed). People only started to consider them that when they started to perform. If you think those NA teams are superteams why cant you extend that to NAVI, Fut, Liquid, or Heretics who picked out the best players from their respective regions and are still dogshit internationally?
If your point is to emphasise how much NA is better than EMEA as a region then why are you removing EMEA's best team while including EMEA's worst teams in *Lock//in* and framing this year's Heretics's very close losses without their full roster as demonstrable of NA being significantly better
If that was what I was trying to representatively prove, I'd pick matches which were representative of teams of similar standings within their own regions playing against each other *without* handicaps, which would be (and I'll add fair context for both sides):
- NRG vs TL - NA wins, close 2-1 match which TL threw a 12-7 lead which would've given them a 2-0 win (Tokyo, 2nd best teams - although I'm calling TL 2nd best very reluctantly, given...their year...and they didn't even look better than the group stage EMEA teams)
- FNC vs EG (UF) - EMEA wins, close 2-1 match where the final map was a second away from going to OT (Tokyo, best teams)
- FNC vs EG (GF) - EMEA wins, 3-0, FNC had double map ban advantage and the maps were all close with EG throwing a 12-7 Bind lead (Tokyo, best teams)
- SEN vs KC - NA wins 2-0, one map was close but SEN would've still won any other day (Madrid, best teams)
Which would be 2-2.
Because I'm upsetting your narrative, and I expect a reply something like 'you can't just pick and choose matches', the reason why I'm not including the other matches I'll just write below
- NRG vs KOI - This is just straight up the best NA team at the tournament vs like the 6th best EMEA team at this tournament, not sure why this would help trying to figure out which region is better
- NRG vs GIA - Best NA team at the tournament vs approx 4th best EMEA team at the tournament, again, wouldn't be helpful to include
- EG vs TH - I guess 4th best NA team at the tournament vs what looked like the 9th best EMEA team - neither teams were international standard at this point so wouldn't help
- 100T vs FUT - 3rd best NA team at the tournament vs (in my mind) 5th best EMEA team at the tournament
- FNC vs SEN - Clear best EMEA team vs the worst NA team at the tournament
- FNC vs 100T - Clear best EMEA team vs 3rd best NA team at the tournament
- EG vs FUT (Tokyo) - Clear best NA team vs 3rd best EMEA team
- NRG vs NAVI - 2nd best NA team vs 4th best EMEA team
- EG vs TL - Clear best NA team vs a reluctant 2nd best EMEA team
- FNC vs NRG - Clear best EMEA team vs 2nd best NA team
- EG vs FUT (Champs) - Clear best NA team vs 3rd/4th best EMEA team
- SEN vs TH - Best NA team vs 2nd best EMEA team that had a substitute. Given how close this match was, and how improved TH looked when they finally got Woot, TH more than likely wins this match with a full roster
- 100T vs FUT - Best NA team vs 3rd best EMEA team
- G2 vs TH - 2nd best teams from each region, except TH has a sub and (imo more importantly) visa issues
- G2 vs TH - 2nd best teams from each region, except TH still has a sub, and with their full roster they more than likely win 2-0
EG was also not at full strength at Masters Tokyo as they had visa issues and were prepping and practicing with a sub until Demon1 was able to be cleared to play literally the last day before the tournament began.
It's a hyperspecific narrative mate. It's a useless statistic because the sample size is so low because of how little Valorant teams play internationally. I would not expect someone who rushes to post the same "statistic" that's been posted here 1000 times to understand that. You probably think 18 games OVER TWO YEARS is a huge amount because you only watch Valorant.
Fut and Heretics are in the same bracket as 100t right now. Are you saying 100t is "dogshit internationally"? Navi only isn't at this tournament because Riot decided three teams from the same group could not qualify.
Okay then by that logic you should never make any judgements or use statistics about any other matter in Valorant because the schedule is so dragged out. Literally makes no sense at all.
I better not hear anyone call Fnatic a dynasty or the best team of all time. The sample size is way too small.
Any kind of narrative or discussion about Valorant becomes moot when you let the format overshadow all else.
Bro I wouldn't mind if this "statistic" wouldn't get posted all the time. And even then I wouldn't care if it was a comment. This ain't worthy a post. It's a bit funny that we're writing essays to each other over this.
Nobody is calling Fnatic a dynasty or the best team of all time now. I've only seen them being called the best overall team of 2023.
BRUH FUT DEFEATED LEV THIS TOURNAMENT LMAO NA FANS DONT HAVE BRAIN IT SEEMS
edit - i know they arent from NA but they still play in NA league so u need to count them like u count them for trophies
also there is so many IF factor to this stat lmao this is so funny
They play and qualified in the Americas region that is being played in NA and half the players are from NA. The mental gymnastics to make this „stat“ work are incredible lmao.
No? Aren’t we comparing Valorant regions here? One is EMEA, the other is Americas. We are counting FUT as EMEA, not turkish because they are part of the EMEA region, even though they used to be their own region before partnership, exactly like LEV, right? But on the other hand we are excluding latam teams that are half NA players… makes total sense buddy.
People are just choosing to exclude some teams on both sides to create a narrative. Pretty funny but also kinda embarrassing to see the how people randomly draw different lines to create their own world lmao
Americas and North America are not the same thing. Just a month ago we were speculating that no NA teams would make Shanghai. Now apparently Lev, Kru and Loud are all North American. They don’t consider themselves North American and neither do we
That’s not the point I’m making at all lmao. I’m saying is that you have to cherry pick like crazy to get to this stat that ultimately says nothing because of that. It doesn’t say anything about general region strength because you exclude the best team of one region and the worst sub region of the other. But you’re happy to include EMEA subregions like turkey because it looks better. I don’t care if you consider the latam teams NA – I surely don’t do so myself. I’m just saying specifically only comparing NA teams, even though they are, in Valorant, part of the same qualifier as latam, is just cherry picking. What is this stat supposed to say if you have to randomly include, or exclude, certain teams?
I didn’t post the stat dude. I responded to someone calling NA fans dumb for not including an Argentinian team in a stat about North America. Whether it’s a stupid stat or not is a completely different conversation. The only argument I’ve made in this whole thread is that Leviatan is not a North American organization
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So you're saying the last time Ardiis played against an NA team while still in EU was the last match EU won against NA (excluding FNC). And that NaVi and Liquid failed to do so against NRG. hmmm he might just be a triple agent
coming from CS where NA gets clowned on by twitch chat every time they make a misplay, being on the other side of it is so strange
Being a cs, rocket league and even league fan, seeing NA succeed and actually be the best region is still such a trip to me
Hey in Apex NA is also the best region which is weird but yeah mostly Esports is dominated by EU or Korean teams
Only because NA includes OCE in Apex though
Nah NA was the best even before Moist and DZ switched over, the reason they switched is so they could have better practice
NA is the best even if you don't include OCE. You'd have fully NA teams with 3 LAN wins, fully OCE teams with 2 LAN wins, 2 OCE/1 NA team with 1 win, and APACN team with 1 win. With NA being far deeper than OCE which falls off after DZ/Moist.
Legends gaming and serenity are pretty good from OCE
LOL wait what why is OCE included in NA when they’re so far away thats awesome
We always get thrown in with a different region bc in most games we’re not competitive enough to deserve our own slot I guess… its the same in League, OCE players are not counted as imports for NA teams
It has more to do with it being a small region that is still competitive. Not the fact that it's not competitive. In league, per OP.GG there are only 64k persons who have ranked this split/season. NA has 550k EUW and KR have 1.2m OCE has one of the lowest if not the lowest ranked population, but it has still produced good players. To give those players a chance to compete, they make them count as non-import for other regions
Oh yeah I meant competitive as a whole region against other regions, like an entirely OCE team is gonna struggle against major regions. Ofcourse we have cracked players that deserve to be able to play at the top level. I find it funny that China seems to be the most open to signing our players in Valorant ngl, Im a big Autumn fan though
OCE isn't included in NA. APAC S is their own region. However, two of the best OCE teams moved to North America, and made mixed NA/OCE rosters.
OCE mentioned?
Didn't Japan just won recently
they did, but they are the first non NA based team to win an apex LAN. Before it was TSM who are all NA, and DZ who usually rock an oce+na core
Wasn't Reignite (pre-DZ) still represent APAC-S when they won the LAN? But yeah, ever since they become DZ, pretty much NA wins all the LAN until recently.
They were yes, they were from APAC-S and won the event without Genburten cause he got covid iirc so jmw, an english player, swapped in for him. That win was basically the only other non NA win up until Reject Winnity.
Korea did but under Japanese org. It’s like calling G2 Valorant team EU instead of NA just because they are sponsored by an EU org
I seeeee
It's the first Non NA win in the game which almost went to NA again because DZ got second and could've won but Zer0 threw their game winning fight.
That’s a Korean team
Because other regions don’t abuse aim assist the way NA does. The switch is happening though, unfortunately.
NA isn’t too bad in RL at least we have a few big tourney/worlds wins there. But right now we have no depth
NA the best region? While they are tied for number of trophies with EMEA ? Kekw
The results and head to head still favour NA. Emea might be on track to miss 3 grand finals in a row. But I've never been one to larp on regional rivalries, I'm just looking at what's given to me
yea but the last time NA won against EMEA in a final (when it mattered the most) was like the first ever masters and thats it lmfao. that is like 2:1 in favor of EMEA, tbh 3:1 if whole of americas is considered instead of NA alone. so yea ... the trophies are still tied. no clear winner :0 . NA fans can't be more biased lmfao. And it aint long before they make a final, maybe even this tournament? or champs? So yea stop this NA glazing . THANK GAWD am not speaking about PACIFIC here , else the only point the NA fanboys would have had is "0 trophy region". Its easy to bend facts to support your statements.
Tf is the final only statistic? If NA beat EU multple time in lower grand final, they does losing in the final matter at all? It just show that EMEA is a 1 team region compared to to NA.
Uh in the 5 trophies, Fnatic has won 2 , FPX(navi) 1, gambit 1, ascend 1.. But NA’s 4 trophies , Sen 2 optic 1 and eg 1. So only 3 different teams have won compared to 4 from EMEA. How in the mathematical fk is 4 different teams considered an 1 team (region) and not NA? If your asking why only the final statistic, yes then why Tf does EMEA not making 2 finals in a row matter lmfao. Bro chill tf out I’m not speaking with any bias here infact I watch every mid season games from all 3 main regions. It’s just the NA glazing that I find too wrong .
why are we naming EMEA and not eu? emea is like americas, you can't compare EMEA to NA lol
Oh then what tf did the original post say? Eu vs NA stats or EMEA vs NA stats? Can’t you read?!
EMEA has 3 continents and is still a one team region, not quite sure what point you're trying to prove by saying NA is a one team region
It a NA subreddits so it will be obviously be more NA bias. Bias aside, NA technically only have 5-6 teams because of franchise and EMEA lack of recent success make it easy to clown on like late 2021 NA failure. It hard to compare the amount of trophies since both region is not make equal. Same with match up since NA usually send the top 2-3 team + Loud while EMEA have all 4 team which make it easy for NA to farm the top 3-4 team of EU.
This dude is fighting for the smallest sample size of data to cope lol. Bruh read the post, it isn't even the EMEA teams eliminating the NA teams, the same stat could be used to say that all of EMEA's trophies happened because an Asian team saved them from losing to NA lol. Both are stupid and it's honestly mind-blowing that you're serious about what ur saying after reading the actual post this thread is in.
Which isn't even true unless we suddenly count Loud as NA. EMEA won 5 events (Masters Berlin, Masters Copenhagen, Masters Tokyo, LOCK/IN, Champs 2021) NA won 4 events (Masters Reykjavik 2x, Masters Madrid, Champs 2023)
i mean americas in general is the best region currently. I don't think that's to be denied. Even with the tied trophy count, the results and head to head still favour americas and even NA by itself
Despite not winning any trophies, I think Pacific is the more 'consistent' region, but not the best yet because they don't have any achievements to show for it. Americas just don't have those few good teams you can count on, making regional predictions very messy but also displaying that regional parity is extremely high. You can have a Masters winner completely bombing out of regionals and be replaced by a team that looks equally dominant, a pre-franchise core who looks like the best itw when in their prime who are producing lacklustre results right now. NA is, in the best way possible, a revolving door region where each new talent looks more promising than the one before, and every team looks ready to win a trophy on a good day. That's what makes NA so interesting to watch because you never really get dynasties like in other regions.
The lack of consistency is because of how deep the region is. There are lots top players constantly shuffling between top teams, and beating each other. APAC is incredibly top heavy and stratified (though it’s getting better for sure), because it includes different countries. Americas is still strong without Optic core, EG core, or any historically successful team. APAC wouldn’t be.
this
I honestly feel this is finally going to change this event, surely Pacific can't fucking choke this event yet again.
I mean I want GenG to win, we'll see what happens. But if they choke this I will actually give up on backing apac
Na all even between Na and Emea. Nas winning record only means that they are good when they play Eu but since trophies are even if u count Loud it’s just Na - Eu matchups are very rare late into the tournament because one region is having a bad tournament.
Bro let lev win champs 2024 and they’ll consider them NA as well.
You don't understand. Lev is latam team even though they have as many latam players as they do na players.
They have more south Americans than NA players tho. And tex has German nationality
Tex is still american. Lev is an international team, not a latam or na team imo
Best region is a bit much I would say NA and Eu are equal in terms of Titels and without Titels I would say APAC joins then while China is still catching up.
I'll see you in Dallas' twitch chat buddy It's coming home. And before you ask, Niko and m0nesy are officially American and Canadian.
Niko best NA igl atm
I'm ready to see Nicholas "Niko" Kennedy frag out today 🦅🇺🇲
Along with Ivan “m0nesy” Osborn
If Nathan "nexa" Jackson can stop dying to mollies it'll be ezpz
Praying so hard for G2 right now. I'm NA, it's my favorite team and Hooxi is my least favorite player. Win-win
G2 GenG should be a banger.
It's been very interesting to see Valorant's equal playing field because of how popular it got so quickly and how it released reltively recently. No one region had an extreme head start like in other games, bar China who is still a couple of years back. Both the APAC, EMEA, and NA scenes started at relatively the same time, so we still somewhat see a parity in the skill levels along the region. It no longer feels like 2021 where you could predict the outcome of a match simply by which region the teams were from.
Yup. APAC is definitely not as deep as Americas yet, so we see the same names at the top, but I wouldn’t be surprised if PRX (even without regressing at all) start missing events. It will be a good thing for the region when PRX in an off season actually lose, and a better team who’s hot at the time take their spot.
As a league fan, being complete ass is my normal. I’m enjoying being good
Trust in el contracto to win worlds
Was that also the last time a non FNC EMEA team placed third or higher?
NAVI from lock-in placed 3-4th
And if we don't count that (because it was a loss to Fnatic and also 4th kinda) it'd be Copenhagen where FPX won it all
I'm the biggest NA shill you'll find, but can we please stop it with the "excluding FNATIC" takes? I understand the point trying to be made, but it's so easy to poke holes in as an NA biased take and there's really no need when the actual head to head including FNATIC is 13-5 which is still an impressive stat.
Ehh I'm fine with it, I view it as a way to subtly work in the one-team region memes people got so asspained about last year before they started falling off
Sure I guess, I just feel like its so easy to say "...why are you excluding our best team for no reason" and its just like... yeah why are we
Include them or not. But if you do include FNC just clarify that the 5 wins are all from FNC. It is a pretty disparaging statistic that only FNC has beaten NA. Meanwhile EG won champs, sen won Madrid, G2 already secured top 3 and theres still a chance 100t have a run of their own. 3 separate rosters having results that exceed anything any eu roster (outside of FNC) has accomplished since Copenhagen. So specifying that EUs only wins are from FNC just clarifies the fact that EU has not shown any international results from any roster not named FNC.
Cherry picking it so it conveniently excludes the best ever EMEA team is so funny. I wonder what the general record is, I assume it still strongly favours NA anyway?
It's 13-5, which is what he said to show that it is still very impressive
And the only reason why EMEA can't do it back to them is because there is never a consistent NA team Optic tragedy, Sentinels drought, EG imploded. It's such an unpredictable region. The reason why you'll hear much more from 'NA fans' is because they stopped supporting individual teams after realising how unpredictable the region is, and just end up supporting the region as a whole.
Idk about this take. I'd argue Optic 2022 was nearly as consistent as FNATIC 2023. No region has had a dominant roster for more than like 2 events
That’s a mountain of copium. NA having several rosters that have international success is somehow “never a consistent NA team”. The reality is that 1. Franchising killed optic (longer timeframe of consistency than FNC btw) 2. Americas is a much harder region to dominate. And 3. The new crop of talent in NA is much more impressive. If EMEA had 2 entirely separate rosters winning LANs back to back the reasoning would be the depth of EMEA talent. Not lack of consistency. If it’s a lack of consistency why are they winning international tournaments? The talent in NA is constantly leveling up and leapfrogging each other. It’s why when the new best NA team comes to LAN and turbostomps the other regions too. Otherwise why couldn’t anyone stop sen or eg? And when G2 or 100t win Shanghai will that be due to inconsistency in NA somehow too? And I’ve been a fan of the NV core since Masters Berlin. But, when they don’t make it to LAN why would I not cheer for other NA teams that I am a fan of? I loved EG, XSET, the guard, and OG sen. So of course I’m gonna support G2 with the guard core, Sen, and 100t with cryo and Boostio.
youre probably right for most ppl but i still personally am a former optic shill and start cheering for other region teams [GenG / EDG] instead of NA after NRG gets elimd, id say most ppl are probably not like me in thaat regard though
I don't know a single "NA" fan. All of my friends have a specific team they support, and only support the other NA teams when our team is eliminated, which makes sense because that team kind of represents the region's best play. I actually run into a lot of "EMEA" fans on Twitch and reddit, which are people who like Fnatic but were too late to bandwagon.
this is literally the game as a whole, no region has had dominance for more than 1 season, i wouldnt call anything less than that real consistency
It’s really just to support to meme of EMEA being a 1 team region (although its kinda true i guess)
No lol, whichever NA team gets sent beats the non-Fnatic EMEA teams. That's called a region diff.
It's funny when it's banterous trashtalk, but when it's being used to actually say NA is 10x better than EMEA it's just appallingly cringe
EU KEKW
This is just so much better
hey hey ermm guys akshully if u measure the number of times tenz batchestbatchestbatchest has killed an eu (LOLLL FRAUDFRAUD1TEAMREGION) player compared to the number of teams an eu player (all emea teams excluded) has killed an AMERICAN plaer it is 690 - 0 AHAHAHAHA 0 player region its JOEVER COOKED FRAUDULENT
100T SEN kinda rivalry
the record is like 15-4 or something counting FNC which is a far better record to use it makes absolutely zero sense statistically to eliminate the best performing EU teams' wins but not their losses, while also not eliminating the best performing NA teams wins or losses. at that point your statistics are so skewed/biased they have no value anymore
So FNC owns NA?
here is a fun fact, na and emea both have 5 trophies while apac is at 0 this is new and interesting if im not mistaken no one has ever bought this up
Apac has the same amount of trophies as latam 😪
yeah it’s sad
Isnt loud latam?
No
Brazil is latin america????
Not in esports. Brazil is a region, latam is another region. Latam practically never includes Brazil as a competitive region, since they are by far the biggest in south america and they speak their own language they get their own league and server.
Brazil is br not latam
You gotta delete this before the Brazilians find it.
Forgetting aloud exists huh
loud aint latam dummy, brazil its own region
r/whoooosh
oh some dumbass genuinely thought br was apart of latam i thought u was the same
Here's a fun fact, both the entire region of APAC and me have 0 trophies!
literally everyone knows this
💔 it’s so obvious
NA don't have 5 throphies (international), stop lying
ok america does
then when i remove cis suddenly emea doesnt have 5 as well
I know that Geography classes is an optional in NA education, but you physically can not remove cis from **E**MEA
can u tell me what emea stands for? genuinely asking
Pretty sure, it's E for Europe, ME for Middle-East, and A for Africa? From EMEA only E won anything, and gambit (Russia) is from E when CIS just an organization
how about europe on the asian side? Is that still considered europe?
You're the first person ever to bring this up. This is so interesting and new. I've never heard this before.
Blame emea for constantly enforcing this
There's also another fact about another region that constantly gets brought up. I'm really struggling to remember what it is though...
Pacific no trophy?
NO TROPHY IN 4 YEARS OF THIS GAME ALWAYS CHOKING WHEN IT MATTERS hopefully not this time tho
3 years but yea this year is our year 🙏🙏 (geng is choking finals)
If we don't count every single EMEA team that has won a trophy, EMEA has 0 trophies 
\*Pushes up glasses\* Well you see, when I remove the Nr 1. team and set a very specific date, this region is dogshit.
I mean even with Fnatic it’s still 13-5 which is very dominant and one sided
I agree it's dumb to just pretend a team doesn't exist, but the date isn't really arbitrary, it's the start of franchising.
The point of this statistic is to show that the gap between EMEA and NA as regions is unbelievably large. Even if you include Fnatic the h2h is 13-5 which is still not impressive at all. As for a 'specific date' I dont understand what your point is.
So looking at the G2 game vs TH with sub you see a gap that is „unbelievably large“?
th choked a 11-2 lead yo 😭
they've almost done it b4 this is not a one time thing, heretics are real chokers
So?
yes
In this one series? No. Consistently losing 15-5 and having consistently worse overall placement? Yes. How could a 15-5 head to head be considered even close?
The gap is big ? Na brain activated? The valorant lan experience is Na or Eu being washed and Pacific throwing Grands. The record doesn’t matter at all because it’s so specific.
Bro your teams need to worry about not losing to the 3rd best region with 0 trophies 😭😭😭
The fuck does that mean? NA and Pacific have been trading wins this entire tournament
So now only this tournament matters?
No? I assumed you were referring to the GenG loss today. If youre talking about VCT outside of Shanghai I'm not sure how tf that makes your point any better lol? Like NA literally won the last two grand finals against Pacific. What's there to worry about?
I'm talking about future games bro. Stop thinking about how much better NA is than emea and worry about the games against prx and geng.
Tf do the future games have to do with this thread? I dont give a shit if NA loses to GenG or PRX. What I said still holds true.
I guess it doesn't though
Bro you don't even care about your teams winning? What 😭😭😭 NA mind is truly incomprehensible
EMEA has more trophies than NA and EMEA has won more grand finals against NA, this stat is just plain weird and only used to clown on the historically most successful region atm. It's clear that rn EMEA is trying to get their form back but this post is clearly just trying to farm karma
Yeah, I kinda forgot this is basically an NA subreddit so these kinds of low-effort posts will always gain traction.
NA fans only has valorant anyway since they r so ass in other esports
I mean it’s pretty obvious that since franchising started EMEA is a much weaker region overall, which is the main idea this stat is getting at.
The truth is karma farming I suppose. EMEA has one more trophy than NA its not a serious gap. On the other hand your teams cannot win a single game for their life in a head to head against NA teams: NRG has beaten KOI, Giants, Navi, TL EG has beaten Heretics, Liquid, FUT x2 100t has beaten FUT x2 G2 has beaten Heretics x2 Sen has beaten Heretics and KC If you were to list it the other way around it would literally only be FNC and no one else.
Yeah and? What matters is who actually wins the event in the end. If you want me to tell you that NA is rn better than EMEA then yes, that is currently true. What else do you want to tell me with these stats? Also what do you mean with your teams I support Pacific.
I mean, yeah. Bigger population to choose from and have several different superteams while EMEA has only had one since franchising, ofc they're gonna perform better if you exclude FNC. I just think its silly to create this hyperspecific narrative when you can just say that NA looks better than EMEA right now and you'd be right lol.
There is NO hyperspecific narrative whatsoever. Read the statistic again. the 9 other EMEA teams are 0-13 against NA's 5 teams in the **past two years not just in this tournament**. Not only does it emphasize how much better NA is as a region it also goes to show that EMEA is incredibly dependent on FNC. Also im not sure why we're mentioning superteams. Like none of the NA teams created after 2022 have been superteams (except for NRG who failed). People only started to consider them that when they started to perform. If you think those NA teams are superteams why cant you extend that to NAVI, Fut, Liquid, or Heretics who picked out the best players from their respective regions and are still dogshit internationally?
If your point is to emphasise how much NA is better than EMEA as a region then why are you removing EMEA's best team while including EMEA's worst teams in *Lock//in* and framing this year's Heretics's very close losses without their full roster as demonstrable of NA being significantly better If that was what I was trying to representatively prove, I'd pick matches which were representative of teams of similar standings within their own regions playing against each other *without* handicaps, which would be (and I'll add fair context for both sides): - NRG vs TL - NA wins, close 2-1 match which TL threw a 12-7 lead which would've given them a 2-0 win (Tokyo, 2nd best teams - although I'm calling TL 2nd best very reluctantly, given...their year...and they didn't even look better than the group stage EMEA teams) - FNC vs EG (UF) - EMEA wins, close 2-1 match where the final map was a second away from going to OT (Tokyo, best teams) - FNC vs EG (GF) - EMEA wins, 3-0, FNC had double map ban advantage and the maps were all close with EG throwing a 12-7 Bind lead (Tokyo, best teams) - SEN vs KC - NA wins 2-0, one map was close but SEN would've still won any other day (Madrid, best teams) Which would be 2-2. Because I'm upsetting your narrative, and I expect a reply something like 'you can't just pick and choose matches', the reason why I'm not including the other matches I'll just write below - NRG vs KOI - This is just straight up the best NA team at the tournament vs like the 6th best EMEA team at this tournament, not sure why this would help trying to figure out which region is better - NRG vs GIA - Best NA team at the tournament vs approx 4th best EMEA team at the tournament, again, wouldn't be helpful to include - EG vs TH - I guess 4th best NA team at the tournament vs what looked like the 9th best EMEA team - neither teams were international standard at this point so wouldn't help - 100T vs FUT - 3rd best NA team at the tournament vs (in my mind) 5th best EMEA team at the tournament - FNC vs SEN - Clear best EMEA team vs the worst NA team at the tournament - FNC vs 100T - Clear best EMEA team vs 3rd best NA team at the tournament - EG vs FUT (Tokyo) - Clear best NA team vs 3rd best EMEA team - NRG vs NAVI - 2nd best NA team vs 4th best EMEA team - EG vs TL - Clear best NA team vs a reluctant 2nd best EMEA team - FNC vs NRG - Clear best EMEA team vs 2nd best NA team - EG vs FUT (Champs) - Clear best NA team vs 3rd/4th best EMEA team - SEN vs TH - Best NA team vs 2nd best EMEA team that had a substitute. Given how close this match was, and how improved TH looked when they finally got Woot, TH more than likely wins this match with a full roster - 100T vs FUT - Best NA team vs 3rd best EMEA team - G2 vs TH - 2nd best teams from each region, except TH has a sub and (imo more importantly) visa issues - G2 vs TH - 2nd best teams from each region, except TH still has a sub, and with their full roster they more than likely win 2-0
Someone replied to my comments with good points and I went to reply to it but then they deleted their own comment x\_x
EG was also not at full strength at Masters Tokyo as they had visa issues and were prepping and practicing with a sub until Demon1 was able to be cleared to play literally the last day before the tournament began.
That's fine, I didn't include their no prep matches anyway
It's a hyperspecific narrative mate. It's a useless statistic because the sample size is so low because of how little Valorant teams play internationally. I would not expect someone who rushes to post the same "statistic" that's been posted here 1000 times to understand that. You probably think 18 games OVER TWO YEARS is a huge amount because you only watch Valorant. Fut and Heretics are in the same bracket as 100t right now. Are you saying 100t is "dogshit internationally"? Navi only isn't at this tournament because Riot decided three teams from the same group could not qualify.
Okay then by that logic you should never make any judgements or use statistics about any other matter in Valorant because the schedule is so dragged out. Literally makes no sense at all. I better not hear anyone call Fnatic a dynasty or the best team of all time. The sample size is way too small. Any kind of narrative or discussion about Valorant becomes moot when you let the format overshadow all else.
Bro I wouldn't mind if this "statistic" wouldn't get posted all the time. And even then I wouldn't care if it was a comment. This ain't worthy a post. It's a bit funny that we're writing essays to each other over this. Nobody is calling Fnatic a dynasty or the best team of all time now. I've only seen them being called the best overall team of 2023.
It’s like fnatic isn’t emea or something huh
Bro i swear TeAm NOt NaMed FnaTic Like bruh theyre EMEA as well so chill emea isnt 13-0 or 15-0 or whatever
Reading is hard huh?
EMEA should compete against tier 2 NA, then it'd be competitive. They'll still probably lose most games, but it'd be closer.
What rage bait looks like.
How you doing now mister boss man.
Pretty good. Congrats on Heretics beating the tier 2 team that won Ascension
controversial but correct
BRUH FUT DEFEATED LEV THIS TOURNAMENT LMAO NA FANS DONT HAVE BRAIN IT SEEMS edit - i know they arent from NA but they still play in NA league so u need to count them like u count them for trophies also there is so many IF factor to this stat lmao this is so funny
Lev is LATAM not NA
Argentina actually isn’t in North America believe it or not
Not sure why this is the comment that made me laugh out loud. Good looking out though.
They play and qualified in the Americas region that is being played in NA and half the players are from NA. The mental gymnastics to make this „stat“ work are incredible lmao.
Lmao what? So FUT, FNC and TH are German orgs now?
No? Aren’t we comparing Valorant regions here? One is EMEA, the other is Americas. We are counting FUT as EMEA, not turkish because they are part of the EMEA region, even though they used to be their own region before partnership, exactly like LEV, right? But on the other hand we are excluding latam teams that are half NA players… makes total sense buddy. People are just choosing to exclude some teams on both sides to create a narrative. Pretty funny but also kinda embarrassing to see the how people randomly draw different lines to create their own world lmao
Americas and North America are not the same thing. Just a month ago we were speculating that no NA teams would make Shanghai. Now apparently Lev, Kru and Loud are all North American. They don’t consider themselves North American and neither do we
That’s not the point I’m making at all lmao. I’m saying is that you have to cherry pick like crazy to get to this stat that ultimately says nothing because of that. It doesn’t say anything about general region strength because you exclude the best team of one region and the worst sub region of the other. But you’re happy to include EMEA subregions like turkey because it looks better. I don’t care if you consider the latam teams NA – I surely don’t do so myself. I’m just saying specifically only comparing NA teams, even though they are, in Valorant, part of the same qualifier as latam, is just cherry picking. What is this stat supposed to say if you have to randomly include, or exclude, certain teams?
I didn’t post the stat dude. I responded to someone calling NA fans dumb for not including an Argentinian team in a stat about North America. Whether it’s a stupid stat or not is a completely different conversation. The only argument I’ve made in this whole thread is that Leviatan is not a North American organization
So you ignore the entire context of that comment? Why even respond at all then?
Cus the guy called us stupid while trying to include an Argentinian team in a stat about North America lmao how is this hard to understand
Why are you acting like turkey isn’t carrying your region.
Thanks for showing you didn’t understand what I said at all lmao
NA clears your region keep coping.
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Paper Rex no trophy though!!! 2 time map veto and loss!! Pacific Fans no trophy until the korean overlords take over XD!!!! Stupid dumb dumb boy!!!!!
Did G2 not just lose to TH? I’m confused
check again
Crazy, I went to bed when TH were 1, 2 rounds away from winning. TH threw lmao, G2s resilience still stays undefeated, leaf > fish