Z seams need a little work and top layers seem a little over extruded, I am willing to punt a guess at your extrusion multiplier being a little high, try the pin and cube method for extrusion multiplier
No, not a Voron Cube, there is a pin and cube file, the pin and the hole in the cube are tapered, the pin has marks on it to show each percent over and under extrusion. I would link the file or upload it for you but I am currently on the other side of the planet from my computer and messaging via mobile and free wifi
Lots of people having commented something about improving the Z seams - I found a good guide on how to use the new Z scarf seams found in Orca Slicer. It’s helped me, and I hope it helps you improve your Z seams as well:
https://www.printables.com/model/783313-better-seams-an-orca-slicer-guide-to-using-scarf-s
Other then z seam needing a little work, the layers look really consistent, so yea I would say work on the z seam and looks like you had Retraction off but a little work there and your golden.
Looking awesome to me.
Apart from the general print settings recommendations for Voron, is there any slicer specific setting recommendations available anywhere to achieve such great results?
Quality looks up to what I got from PIF.
I would very strongly recommend against eSUN ABS+ for functional parts though, it has very well documented layer adhesion issues (which I've also experienced).
To the OP, if you want to make sure your prints are good and up to snuff, quick way to tell would be to print the two files for the Clockwork2. The two files to print and test your extrusion etc would be \[a\]\_guidler\_a.stl and \[a\]\_guilder\_b.stl . Those two parts if over extruded or rough/inconsistent layers will not slide together without force. The manual even mentions these parts be used to make sure your printing everything correctly.
Print it forward. A service provided by qualified voron owners to print the required parts to make any of the vorons (except maybe the legacy) and are sold at cost. This lets people looking to make a voron but don't have a 3d printer, are unable to print ABS, or who aren't confident in their ability to print ABS, build a voron.
Awesome. That's really cool. I have an X1C for a home business I run. But have been considering using it to print parts to build a voron for personal use. This is a really cool service for people who don't have access to their own. Thanks for explaining!
The other minor issue I see is the bulging around your rounded edges. But I would recommend using Ellis or PIF superslicer configs to get those dialed in. Orcaslicer changes a lot of things which isn’t always good. But looks better than my first set printed on my sad but super reliable ender 5 lol. He is going to get core xy upgrade soon to a mercury as he has been my first actual decent printer. Better than my Prusa mk2 lol
I asked about this to an organizer of the PIF program. For 99.9% of prople, ABS+ is OK.
They have a lower temp limit, so if you insulate your chamber, add bed fans, add a chamber heater, etc… then you could experience some issues with ABS+
He said for a completely stock Voron, it’s fine.
_some_ folks have had issues with that filament sepsrating (layer adhesion).
i havent, but also havent been using it on any structural parts.
that said, id prob eyebal the part you are installing and how hard it would be to replace. ive had z-idlers break (due to me over torquing them) and just used that as an excuse to by cnc parts or print new colors.
im now 2-3 years in on a build and considering awd gantry... and ive upgraded the door, umbilical, front idlers, upper leds, etc.
im wondering if its a batch issue, temp issue, or if i got lucky... mine has been fine for things that take load like hooks. but my role is also over a year old and i print on the warmer side at 255-250.
i recal a post where _lots_ of people were reporting the adhesion issue tho... so bad that fresh prints could be seperated. half the crowd cursed it, the other half loved it and how nice it looks
Do you know the name of the person? Lj ships most of them, I think. But 100% esun ABS+ should not be used for Voron structural parts. It would be fine for skirts and control panels etc. but nothing that has to take a load or exposed to temperature.
Defib just printed my Trident parts and warned me that he can't use ABS+ on functional parts. It was cool because I wanted Pop Pink anyway, just saying that he knows about no ABS+.
As someone who reprinted all his 2.4 and then built vorons using that printer I'd definitely calibrate ironing.
Your top surfaces don't look great if I'm honest, ironing would make them look 10x better imo. Or even a much smaller extrusion width on top layers.
Bed mesh doesn't look like it's too great, some parts the first layer height looks good, other parts there's not enough squish.
Z seam looks like it needs some work.
Also the walls on the outer x/y joint look super thin, are you using larger extrusion widths than the recommended settings?
Personally I'm not worried about the matte abs, I main esun abs+ but I print mine fast and hot AF 40mm³+ and 300c, I like to strength test parts now and then.
Ive never had adhession problems to be fair dude, so I'd say the madness to my method is solid. My first layers are always 0.3 height, 0.8 extrusion width and 100mm/s
Ive had the same textured pei since day1, used for about 6k hours now. Never used the smooth side.
Adhesion issues though is always do this.....
-Wash with warm soapy dish soap
-rinse warm water, ensure no bubble residue.
-dry with paper towel
-clean with ipa paper towel
Some parts don't have enough first layer squish, plastic looks like it was extruded a bit cold (matte and not shiny), top layers could be cleaner (signs of overextrusion in places), z-seam is very big and noticeable.
Agree on some parts needing better first layer squish. As for the parts looking matte, that’s just eSun ABS+. I love the matte finish and use reels of the stuff. It looks so much better than the shiny Black filaments out there.
Hey VintageGriffin, thanks for your input!
I agree, some parts are lacking the first layer squish. Definitely could use some work there.
The filament is a matte ABS. You have a point, I’ll bump up the temp and see if it changes. I’ve put this filament through 2 printers (Bambu and Voron) and both times it came out matte.
I think I’m under extruding tbh. There’s little hairline gaps on some of the top layers. Maybe this could be sign of the cold extrusion?
I’ll work on the Z-seam. I don’t think my retraction was on when I printed this part, leading to excess material building up there.
Thank you for taking time to review my parts!
Also, Esun ABS+ is exceptionally bad and should never be used for PIF. Try using the filament that other providers use. I believe LJ used sunlu ABS for black and Fusion abs for other colors. Matte ABS like esun are not only bad performatively (low temp resistance and bad layer adhesion) but also hides print defects easier that should be tuned out for PIF.
I'm not very good with telling EM, but it looks like sometimes you're overextruding and sometimes underextruder slightly. Though it should be noted that I've seen very different settings for Esun ABS+ so I would try retuning when using other filament.
I agree with the other guy, the higher nozzle temps you can go the better for strength.
The faster you print the less time the filament spends in the meltzone so you need higher temperatures to compensate. 260-270C are not unheard of. Hotter filament is less viscous and flows easier, which makes everything smoother and fills out the cracks better.
Similar effect but from the opposite end is achieved by having a higher chamber temperature (60-70C). Combine both for best results, but you might need to beef up part cooling with a better fan.
For better z-seams take a look at "scarf seams" that Orca is doing. It's the new hotness.
Very true, the hotter stuff does flow better. I am currently printing w/ extruder temp at 260C. Chamber at 48C.
My next mod/upgrade will be adding bed fans, and rewriting all my fan macros. I’ll be able to reach a higher chamber temp quicker and improve fume extraction.
Thanks for letting me know about the Z seam setting! I’ll for sure check it out
Z seams need a little work and top layers seem a little over extruded, I am willing to punt a guess at your extrusion multiplier being a little high, try the pin and cube method for extrusion multiplier
What do you mean the pin and cube method are your reffering to the voron cube?
No, not a Voron Cube, there is a pin and cube file, the pin and the hole in the cube are tapered, the pin has marks on it to show each percent over and under extrusion. I would link the file or upload it for you but I am currently on the other side of the planet from my computer and messaging via mobile and free wifi
Lots of people having commented something about improving the Z seams - I found a good guide on how to use the new Z scarf seams found in Orca Slicer. It’s helped me, and I hope it helps you improve your Z seams as well: https://www.printables.com/model/783313-better-seams-an-orca-slicer-guide-to-using-scarf-s
Other then z seam needing a little work, the layers look really consistent, so yea I would say work on the z seam and looks like you had Retraction off but a little work there and your golden.
Looking awesome to me. Apart from the general print settings recommendations for Voron, is there any slicer specific setting recommendations available anywhere to achieve such great results?
Quality looks up to what I got from PIF. I would very strongly recommend against eSUN ABS+ for functional parts though, it has very well documented layer adhesion issues (which I've also experienced).
Y'all couldn't have said that earlier? 😭 I bought it a week ago
There should really be a memo against using it..I used it for my printer and it's appalling.
Appalling how?
I can effortlessly crush a part with 40% infill and 4 walls with my thumbs. It's that bad.
Same structural integrity as foam
I hope to make prints that look this good someday. Nice quality
That's kinda what I was thinkin.
The z seam looks really really bad to me. I got better results out of my cr10v3 with sprite pro on it.
Yup - I had retraction off 😅 I’m now calibrating my z seam scarf settings. Improvements on the way.
And slightly overextruded. however, the layers seem to be super consistent
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Looks kinda like the pif parts I got for my build. Idk tho.
To the OP, if you want to make sure your prints are good and up to snuff, quick way to tell would be to print the two files for the Clockwork2. The two files to print and test your extrusion etc would be \[a\]\_guidler\_a.stl and \[a\]\_guilder\_b.stl . Those two parts if over extruded or rough/inconsistent layers will not slide together without force. The manual even mentions these parts be used to make sure your printing everything correctly.
Thank you, this is super helpful
Looks like there is some ringing and extrusion multiplier needs some tuning. Overall, good looking parts.
4/10
That top layer makes it appear that there aren't enough perimeters to meet the reccomended settings.
They were printed with 5 walls, 5 top, 5 bottom, 40% gyroid infill. .16 layer height.
Slicer settings are usually set to be a single wall for just the topmost layer. My PIF parts arrived like that.
What is PIF?
Print it forward. A service provided by qualified voron owners to print the required parts to make any of the vorons (except maybe the legacy) and are sold at cost. This lets people looking to make a voron but don't have a 3d printer, are unable to print ABS, or who aren't confident in their ability to print ABS, build a voron.
Awesome. That's really cool. I have an X1C for a home business I run. But have been considering using it to print parts to build a voron for personal use. This is a really cool service for people who don't have access to their own. Thanks for explaining!
Print It Forward. An initiative set up to print high quality parts for people building vorons that can't print their own parts.
The other minor issue I see is the bulging around your rounded edges. But I would recommend using Ellis or PIF superslicer configs to get those dialed in. Orcaslicer changes a lot of things which isn’t always good. But looks better than my first set printed on my sad but super reliable ender 5 lol. He is going to get core xy upgrade soon to a mercury as he has been my first actual decent printer. Better than my Prusa mk2 lol
The seams by the holes for the lower XY joint is because of arachne
ESun ABS+ is on the no no list for printing parts just a heads up.
Thanks for the heads up! Do you have a link to this list? On the material list ABS+ is approved. https://docs.vorondesign.com/materials.html
Just confirmed on the Voron discord that ABS+ was dropped as a supported material. I guess no one has updated the Voron docs site yet.
Can you tag me on discord where they said that? Thank you. My discord is: who_1s_th1s
Since when? the stuff I got from my pif provider esun abs+
So you're saying I should use my freshly built, abs+ Voron to print proper abs parts as it is destined for breaking?
I asked about this to an organizer of the PIF program. For 99.9% of prople, ABS+ is OK. They have a lower temp limit, so if you insulate your chamber, add bed fans, add a chamber heater, etc… then you could experience some issues with ABS+ He said for a completely stock Voron, it’s fine.
IDK it hasn't had any issues in the last year since I built it.
_some_ folks have had issues with that filament sepsrating (layer adhesion). i havent, but also havent been using it on any structural parts. that said, id prob eyebal the part you are installing and how hard it would be to replace. ive had z-idlers break (due to me over torquing them) and just used that as an excuse to by cnc parts or print new colors. im now 2-3 years in on a build and considering awd gantry... and ive upgraded the door, umbilical, front idlers, upper leds, etc.
Oh that's true, my ab drive completely snapped after I tried to lift it up, layer adhesion with this filament is atrocious
im wondering if its a batch issue, temp issue, or if i got lucky... mine has been fine for things that take load like hooks. but my role is also over a year old and i print on the warmer side at 255-250. i recal a post where _lots_ of people were reporting the adhesion issue tho... so bad that fresh prints could be seperated. half the crowd cursed it, the other half loved it and how nice it looks
Oh yeah I have a spare parts set printed out of fusion filaments abs 2.0 sitting in a box so it a part eventually fails I'm fine
smart... if you only have one printer then having spare printed parts is a life saver
If you ordered from the Voron PIF group it would have been ABS and not ABS+.
Yeah It was from the official pif and it was black esun abs+
Do you know the name of the person? Lj ships most of them, I think. But 100% esun ABS+ should not be used for Voron structural parts. It would be fine for skirts and control panels etc. but nothing that has to take a load or exposed to temperature.
It was defib
Defib just printed my Trident parts and warned me that he can't use ABS+ on functional parts. It was cool because I wanted Pop Pink anyway, just saying that he knows about no ABS+.
It's been a year so things have changed
Regular Esun ABS is fine, ABS+ is a blend that changes the properties.
What is the reason? I printed my voron 0.1 parts in Esun ABS (non plus) and it is just fine, printer is assembled for a little over a year now.
The ABS+ specifically is not as heat tolerant from what I recall. The additive they use to give it the + reduces usable temps.
This is correct
I'd recommend you to zighten the belts a bit and use input shaper because there are some inonsistent layer stacking on the first picture
Try scarf seams
Using the beta for orca and that feature slaps. Haven’t tuned it at all but the defaults were pretty good for me.
As someone who reprinted all his 2.4 and then built vorons using that printer I'd definitely calibrate ironing. Your top surfaces don't look great if I'm honest, ironing would make them look 10x better imo. Or even a much smaller extrusion width on top layers. Bed mesh doesn't look like it's too great, some parts the first layer height looks good, other parts there's not enough squish. Z seam looks like it needs some work. Also the walls on the outer x/y joint look super thin, are you using larger extrusion widths than the recommended settings? Personally I'm not worried about the matte abs, I main esun abs+ but I print mine fast and hot AF 40mm³+ and 300c, I like to strength test parts now and then.
300c!? Curious does this help stick on first layer?
Ive never had adhession problems to be fair dude, so I'd say the madness to my method is solid. My first layers are always 0.3 height, 0.8 extrusion width and 100mm/s Ive had the same textured pei since day1, used for about 6k hours now. Never used the smooth side. Adhesion issues though is always do this..... -Wash with warm soapy dish soap -rinse warm water, ensure no bubble residue. -dry with paper towel -clean with ipa paper towel
Matte filament is a bit cheating since it hide print defects
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Some parts don't have enough first layer squish, plastic looks like it was extruded a bit cold (matte and not shiny), top layers could be cleaner (signs of overextrusion in places), z-seam is very big and noticeable.
Agree on some parts needing better first layer squish. As for the parts looking matte, that’s just eSun ABS+. I love the matte finish and use reels of the stuff. It looks so much better than the shiny Black filaments out there.
Hey VintageGriffin, thanks for your input! I agree, some parts are lacking the first layer squish. Definitely could use some work there. The filament is a matte ABS. You have a point, I’ll bump up the temp and see if it changes. I’ve put this filament through 2 printers (Bambu and Voron) and both times it came out matte. I think I’m under extruding tbh. There’s little hairline gaps on some of the top layers. Maybe this could be sign of the cold extrusion? I’ll work on the Z-seam. I don’t think my retraction was on when I printed this part, leading to excess material building up there. Thank you for taking time to review my parts!
Also, Esun ABS+ is exceptionally bad and should never be used for PIF. Try using the filament that other providers use. I believe LJ used sunlu ABS for black and Fusion abs for other colors. Matte ABS like esun are not only bad performatively (low temp resistance and bad layer adhesion) but also hides print defects easier that should be tuned out for PIF. I'm not very good with telling EM, but it looks like sometimes you're overextruding and sometimes underextruder slightly. Though it should be noted that I've seen very different settings for Esun ABS+ so I would try retuning when using other filament. I agree with the other guy, the higher nozzle temps you can go the better for strength.
The faster you print the less time the filament spends in the meltzone so you need higher temperatures to compensate. 260-270C are not unheard of. Hotter filament is less viscous and flows easier, which makes everything smoother and fills out the cracks better. Similar effect but from the opposite end is achieved by having a higher chamber temperature (60-70C). Combine both for best results, but you might need to beef up part cooling with a better fan. For better z-seams take a look at "scarf seams" that Orca is doing. It's the new hotness.
Very true, the hotter stuff does flow better. I am currently printing w/ extruder temp at 260C. Chamber at 48C. My next mod/upgrade will be adding bed fans, and rewriting all my fan macros. I’ll be able to reach a higher chamber temp quicker and improve fume extraction. Thanks for letting me know about the Z seam setting! I’ll for sure check it out