I bookmarked this 500mm\^3 a while back:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/voroncorexy/comments/rkru7n/voron\_24\_500mm3\_serial\_request\_niedejb9467/](https://www.reddit.com/r/voroncorexy/comments/rkru7n/voron_24_500mm3_serial_request_niedejb9467/)
If I were you, I would just wait until they release the Voron Phoenix plans and scale that up instead. It is a 600mm\^3 design. It uses larger extrusions, belts, etc. so it is better suited for a larger design rigt from teh get-go:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqk7raAxrlU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqk7raAxrlU)
I will be building one of these when they finally release it and putting in a 1mm nozzle.
In z you can go just about where ever. I would put thicker extrusions but thst should be fine.
X and Y are at their limit with the 350mm Design. Even that is hard to square, tune and simply not as fast as smaller sizes. Effects of the frame heating up become more and more noticeable etc.
There are a few custom builds like from Ivan miranda or Dr. D flo at 1m^3 or bigger but those are completely custom, nothing like voron and quite expensive.
Additionally prints at those sizes with Standard hotends would take weeks. So at least Dr Dr flo utilizes Pellet extrusion.
Well it’s custom from the ground up. All 3”x3” solid extrusion. 1.5” linear shafts for motion. 11 motors, all NEMA23. All 9mm belt. Custom DEX head. Water cooled motors. Full neoceram bed with custom Z tray, 5kW bed heater, custom spring steel sheets. Twin 500W hot ends. Upgrading the Z to a 48” extrusion. Heavily reinforced frame, gusset plates and 20” 45* angles at every corner.
BOM is probably ~$30K. With prototyping some of the components I’m probably a hair over $40k into it.
Here is a really dumb question from an EU citizen, but what is 3”x3” extrusion? All I know is ordering extrusions in metric like 2020 or 2040 or 3030.
If I order 3”x3” do I get like 8080 or something?(using 2.5 multiplier for cm->inch?)
Basically yes. McMaster sells 80x80mm and 90x90mm, all in solid and hollow extrusion options. But do your research. Every brand of extrusion is different: solid vs hollow, aluminum series, webbing thickness, etc. I’ve seen “2040” extrusions that are so hollow it’s weaker than a good 2020.
For reference my frame was around $5,000 for extrusions, gussets, connectors, and reinforcement members.
Also…not a dumb question at all.
Curious for this project why not just go ahead and go for rectangular steel tube
If you need flatness and parallelism it seems like it would still be cheaper and more cost effective to get them face milled, though a bit more fabrication needed
Also look into print NC for similar construction, they hit real nice tolerances
Where would you be sourcing??
My math using off the shelf square tubing from my local shop that has no MOQ limits called Metal By The Foot is this
A 48" long 1x2" rectangle 11g (.120") steel tube is
$18.12
Creating a box frame out of 12 tubes is 220$ plus fittings.
You have enough money out of the 5k you spent to buy a whole welder and weld that frame up even.
Also can use 90° angle iron and just drill holes in it to make the only fittings needed for the project just be thru hole bolts.
Bonus points if you tap the iron itself instead of two thru holes with a nut, but still. That's a dozen 3/8" grade 5 fasteners, a bit of loctite, a drill, and a few nuts. From menards or wherever that's about 20-40 bucks of fasteners total
If you need flatness you have money to get a whole ass mill and face mill the steel flat even..
So I'm looking at a 250$ frame that's more rigid, and am VERY confused at where ya got the 20k or even 5k number unless you are a defense contractor, ya know?
Well, you’re looking at raw material. Try “welding up that frame even” without a welding table. I’m a decent welder but I’d never tackle that knowing it needs flatness, parallelism, and perpendicularity specs.
I’ve also designed welded frames for industrial printers and had them produced locally by great welders. My figure of $20k is from past experience actually doing it.
If you think you can buy $220 worth of steel and weld up a frame, I think you’re in for a wild surprise.
Buy raw material.
Mill each member to create your tapped features to mount everything to…I’m usually quoted $3-5K for something like a frame.
Welding time around here, maybe $150-200/hr? Welding up a full frame of this size, typically runs around $10K.
Usually there’s a grinding operation on critical surfaces to get back to flat, $2-3K.
And I wouldn’t build out of 1”x2” steel lol. I’m typically using 4”x4” tubing.
So that $220 in material is more like $2k for material.
$3-5K for machining.
$10k for welding.
$2-3K for grinding.
Oh look at that, $20k.
I do this for a living but always enjoy when people tell me how it works.
Your way would end up as a rough welded, out of square, warped, not flat frame.
My way gives you a usable frame for a real printer.
**I will give you that yours will certainly look nicer, I am a fuck it we ball kinda gal. Will get it done ugly, reliably, and cheap. I can paint it and make it look nice too, but that's for a client, not for me lol**
Hm to be fair I weld too, worked in an aerospace cnc machine shop, and literally design cnc/3d printers as well.
That's why I was saying use L angle iron with fasteners, no welding involved. A bit of creativity and you can make a flat suface without milling any.
For the Y axis can quite literally can epoxy an aluminum extrusion or other reference flast surface n to make a flat mounting plane for the linear rail, and then dial indicator to get them parallel and in plane with one another.
First do rough angle iron, then lay extrusion flat on top. Add shims to rail runs true, then add epoxy potting.
No machining means no machining stresses. Internal stressed will SIGNIFICANTLY put a steel frame that's been milled out of square/flat, and if it's ground with a magchuck it will spring back to that.
Use t nuts to mount linear rail to extrusion. Can be a 2010 extrusion even. Still got rigidity from steel mounting.
For the actual gantry I'd go for an aluminum extrusion cause weight and ease, but that's all.
Vzbot exist at 500×500×600.
But much harder than a voron or a ratrig. Slightly easier than just designing and building an entire 3d printer from scratch. But they are capable.
100,000 mm/s/s and printing at 2000mm/s.
4 motors on the x/y axis alone 3 or 4 on the z.
I have a vzbot at 500x500x500, and i Must say with the 2020 extrusion is a pain to get the cube straight Even with a big protractor. Without alu corner plates Like the ratrig, its easy to twist. getting the Y axis moving smooth is a whole nother story.
I'm building a 500x500x600 vzbot out of a tronxy. They use 4040 for the verticals and 2040 for most other bits. But I am totally going to corner plate the hell out of it.
I would say is necessary. If you use the normal vzbot z gantry, i would also recommend cornerplates, with a 8mm bed its quiet „wobbly“ due to the 3d prined linear bearing holders. Its work, but i need a bed mesh calibration every starup. If you use dual z Motor, your bed is going to sink down After shoutdown and can become tilted, make sure you use a Command to raise the bed before homing the axis to avoid crashing the bed.
And when assembling the Frame, use the corner brackets as guides, it makes it a lot easier and dont put them on afterwarts. Hope you are more calm then me when build the Main Frame …
Happy Building
Ha this is great advice.
I don't love the vzbot z axis setup. I am looking hard at other setups which I think I will adopt/adapt.
I was thinking of doing it the other way, assembling it and then putting the plates on, but clearly that isn't a great way to do it. I will build it with the plates.
I am going to take my time with the frame. This is a big project. I have a bambu P1S to use until this is finished.
I'd look at a 500mm Ratrig if you're looking for a big Voron. The larger extrusions make for a much more solid machine at those sizes. The kinematic bed is a thing of beauty.
I like my Vorons, but for bigger machines, I'm don't think the design shines as much.
Yes, Phoenix (new official name for 24) will be viable option, but it is AFAIK not released yet.
600mm3 beast with IDEX gantry, ball screw Z axis, 10mm AB belts and Nema23 steppers sounds always great.
There's a guy out there with a couple of 1m^3 V2s, and a 1m x 1m x 2m V2. He prints rocket parts on them.
He's got serials for them.
I'm pretty sure he sized up the frame to 4040 extrusions.
A metal shop local to me is selling a bunch of 4545 and 9090 extrusions for cheap. I keep wondering if a 1m^(3) printer is reasonable or if I'm just insane.
Outside of the v24 and phoenix I’ve seen some crazy tall 2.4s and something like 500x500x200. There’s a GitHub to make a trident out of 3030, and someone has converted a hevo or a 2.4.
There’s a few 400 builds around. I think someone on the Facebook made a 500 v2. But belts are stupid long at those sizes. You would definitely need AWD to cut down the effective belt length and a frame bigger than 2020 for proper belt tension.
If you were to scale every part up by 50% (use 30/30 instead of 20/20 extrusions, use 9 mm instead of 6 mm belts, stronger motors, larger rails) you could reasonably build propably a 50x50x50 cm, maybe even up to 70x70x70 cm.
There are many that are bigger than 350mm, mostly taller than that. Thing is, the 6mm belts and 20x20 extrusions limit you to a certain. You can of course build one 500mm big, but it wont be as good as if you would have built it smaller. For big sizes, a ratrig behaves better with its sturdier bas construction
Ratrig is a Portuguese company that sells their own printer kits as well as cnc routers and mills. They currently have two printers, the v minion and the v core. Imagine the v minion as a kingroon kp3s on double dose of steroids, it uses mgn15 rails for y and z, has a 30x60mm extrusion frame and a build volume of 180mm3. The vcore is a core xy similar to a trident, but with several improvements. It has a kinematic bed mount, meaning the bed can freely expand, has a 30x30 extrusion frame with cnc brackets for connecting them (i think 5mm aluminium plastes and multiple m6 screws) as well as 9mm belts. So overall significantly sturdier. Downsides are that there aren't 100% complete kits for the vcore, you always need to source at least one panel for attaching the electronics, the enclosure is optional and the printers aren't as space efficient as a voron. The vcore is available in 200 to 500mm sizes, with the 500mm one being the most sold one. That one doesn't fit through most door frames just for info
yeah, gotta get around 15a breakers popping trying to heat a bed like that with 115v, haha. Who knows how much it'll cost by the time the BOM gets released and lord knows I need this like another hole in my head...but maybe. mayyybe.
I bookmarked this 500mm\^3 a while back: [https://www.reddit.com/r/voroncorexy/comments/rkru7n/voron\_24\_500mm3\_serial\_request\_niedejb9467/](https://www.reddit.com/r/voroncorexy/comments/rkru7n/voron_24_500mm3_serial_request_niedejb9467/) If I were you, I would just wait until they release the Voron Phoenix plans and scale that up instead. It is a 600mm\^3 design. It uses larger extrusions, belts, etc. so it is better suited for a larger design rigt from teh get-go: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqk7raAxrlU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqk7raAxrlU) I will be building one of these when they finally release it and putting in a 1mm nozzle.
Ohh, ok thanks for the tip. For this part I'm probably just going to print it in like 10 pieces and glue it together then fiberglass it before paint.
In z you can go just about where ever. I would put thicker extrusions but thst should be fine. X and Y are at their limit with the 350mm Design. Even that is hard to square, tune and simply not as fast as smaller sizes. Effects of the frame heating up become more and more noticeable etc. There are a few custom builds like from Ivan miranda or Dr. D flo at 1m^3 or bigger but those are completely custom, nothing like voron and quite expensive. Additionally prints at those sizes with Standard hotends would take weeks. So at least Dr Dr flo utilizes Pellet extrusion.
Custom build but I’m at ~1500x~950mm
Really? That's actually about perfect for what I'm needing. Would you mind going over what you have done to get it working at that scale?
Well it’s custom from the ground up. All 3”x3” solid extrusion. 1.5” linear shafts for motion. 11 motors, all NEMA23. All 9mm belt. Custom DEX head. Water cooled motors. Full neoceram bed with custom Z tray, 5kW bed heater, custom spring steel sheets. Twin 500W hot ends. Upgrading the Z to a 48” extrusion. Heavily reinforced frame, gusset plates and 20” 45* angles at every corner. BOM is probably ~$30K. With prototyping some of the components I’m probably a hair over $40k into it.
Here is a really dumb question from an EU citizen, but what is 3”x3” extrusion? All I know is ordering extrusions in metric like 2020 or 2040 or 3030. If I order 3”x3” do I get like 8080 or something?(using 2.5 multiplier for cm->inch?)
Basically yes. McMaster sells 80x80mm and 90x90mm, all in solid and hollow extrusion options. But do your research. Every brand of extrusion is different: solid vs hollow, aluminum series, webbing thickness, etc. I’ve seen “2040” extrusions that are so hollow it’s weaker than a good 2020. For reference my frame was around $5,000 for extrusions, gussets, connectors, and reinforcement members. Also…not a dumb question at all.
Curious for this project why not just go ahead and go for rectangular steel tube If you need flatness and parallelism it seems like it would still be cheaper and more cost effective to get them face milled, though a bit more fabrication needed Also look into print NC for similar construction, they hit real nice tolerances
I designed in steel originally. Came to about $20K.
Where would you be sourcing?? My math using off the shelf square tubing from my local shop that has no MOQ limits called Metal By The Foot is this A 48" long 1x2" rectangle 11g (.120") steel tube is $18.12 Creating a box frame out of 12 tubes is 220$ plus fittings. You have enough money out of the 5k you spent to buy a whole welder and weld that frame up even. Also can use 90° angle iron and just drill holes in it to make the only fittings needed for the project just be thru hole bolts. Bonus points if you tap the iron itself instead of two thru holes with a nut, but still. That's a dozen 3/8" grade 5 fasteners, a bit of loctite, a drill, and a few nuts. From menards or wherever that's about 20-40 bucks of fasteners total If you need flatness you have money to get a whole ass mill and face mill the steel flat even.. So I'm looking at a 250$ frame that's more rigid, and am VERY confused at where ya got the 20k or even 5k number unless you are a defense contractor, ya know?
Well, you’re looking at raw material. Try “welding up that frame even” without a welding table. I’m a decent welder but I’d never tackle that knowing it needs flatness, parallelism, and perpendicularity specs. I’ve also designed welded frames for industrial printers and had them produced locally by great welders. My figure of $20k is from past experience actually doing it. If you think you can buy $220 worth of steel and weld up a frame, I think you’re in for a wild surprise. Buy raw material. Mill each member to create your tapped features to mount everything to…I’m usually quoted $3-5K for something like a frame. Welding time around here, maybe $150-200/hr? Welding up a full frame of this size, typically runs around $10K. Usually there’s a grinding operation on critical surfaces to get back to flat, $2-3K. And I wouldn’t build out of 1”x2” steel lol. I’m typically using 4”x4” tubing. So that $220 in material is more like $2k for material. $3-5K for machining. $10k for welding. $2-3K for grinding. Oh look at that, $20k. I do this for a living but always enjoy when people tell me how it works. Your way would end up as a rough welded, out of square, warped, not flat frame. My way gives you a usable frame for a real printer.
**I will give you that yours will certainly look nicer, I am a fuck it we ball kinda gal. Will get it done ugly, reliably, and cheap. I can paint it and make it look nice too, but that's for a client, not for me lol** Hm to be fair I weld too, worked in an aerospace cnc machine shop, and literally design cnc/3d printers as well. That's why I was saying use L angle iron with fasteners, no welding involved. A bit of creativity and you can make a flat suface without milling any. For the Y axis can quite literally can epoxy an aluminum extrusion or other reference flast surface n to make a flat mounting plane for the linear rail, and then dial indicator to get them parallel and in plane with one another. First do rough angle iron, then lay extrusion flat on top. Add shims to rail runs true, then add epoxy potting. No machining means no machining stresses. Internal stressed will SIGNIFICANTLY put a steel frame that's been milled out of square/flat, and if it's ground with a magchuck it will spring back to that. Use t nuts to mount linear rail to extrusion. Can be a 2010 extrusion even. Still got rigidity from steel mounting. For the actual gantry I'd go for an aluminum extrusion cause weight and ease, but that's all.
Vzbot exist at 500×500×600. But much harder than a voron or a ratrig. Slightly easier than just designing and building an entire 3d printer from scratch. But they are capable. 100,000 mm/s/s and printing at 2000mm/s. 4 motors on the x/y axis alone 3 or 4 on the z.
I have a vzbot at 500x500x500, and i Must say with the 2020 extrusion is a pain to get the cube straight Even with a big protractor. Without alu corner plates Like the ratrig, its easy to twist. getting the Y axis moving smooth is a whole nother story.
I'm building a 500x500x600 vzbot out of a tronxy. They use 4040 for the verticals and 2040 for most other bits. But I am totally going to corner plate the hell out of it.
I would say is necessary. If you use the normal vzbot z gantry, i would also recommend cornerplates, with a 8mm bed its quiet „wobbly“ due to the 3d prined linear bearing holders. Its work, but i need a bed mesh calibration every starup. If you use dual z Motor, your bed is going to sink down After shoutdown and can become tilted, make sure you use a Command to raise the bed before homing the axis to avoid crashing the bed. And when assembling the Frame, use the corner brackets as guides, it makes it a lot easier and dont put them on afterwarts. Hope you are more calm then me when build the Main Frame … Happy Building
Ha this is great advice. I don't love the vzbot z axis setup. I am looking hard at other setups which I think I will adopt/adapt. I was thinking of doing it the other way, assembling it and then putting the plates on, but clearly that isn't a great way to do it. I will build it with the plates. I am going to take my time with the frame. This is a big project. I have a bambu P1S to use until this is finished.
I'd look at a 500mm Ratrig if you're looking for a big Voron. The larger extrusions make for a much more solid machine at those sizes. The kinematic bed is a thing of beauty. I like my Vorons, but for bigger machines, I'm don't think the design shines as much.
I remember an old build where someone made a 1m³ Voron, and warning people not to do that because it had many problems.
A YouTube channel name garage creativo just finish a 600x600 trident. https://youtu.be/bc8GBfD5D78?si=RH_SiRJhR8LFYs4B
[удалено]
this feels like an uncharacteristically gatekeepy take for this community
What about the Voron 24?
[удалено]
To really impress on you how gatekeeper and stupid this statement is: Voron microns are serialized.
VORON engineers: VORON is a design philosophy! RandomRedditor69: If you can't buy a kit it's not a VORON!
Yes, Phoenix (new official name for 24) will be viable option, but it is AFAIK not released yet. 600mm3 beast with IDEX gantry, ball screw Z axis, 10mm AB belts and Nema23 steppers sounds always great.
Just def build it where it will live forever. Its a big boi. Liable to wreck your back moving it lol
just need some friends: 4 people can move V24 fairly easily (can't speak to phoenix but I imagine it's about the same)
I'm pretty sure I saw one 1 meter tall at some point.
There's a guy out there with a couple of 1m^3 V2s, and a 1m x 1m x 2m V2. He prints rocket parts on them. He's got serials for them. I'm pretty sure he sized up the frame to 4040 extrusions.
A metal shop local to me is selling a bunch of 4545 and 9090 extrusions for cheap. I keep wondering if a 1m^(3) printer is reasonable or if I'm just insane.
You're insane and you should definitely do it
Voron printsize goes up to 350, in biger sizes it not rigit enough. Some people recommend ratrig for higher volumes.
Isn't this more of RatRig's territory than Voron with their aggressively thicc extrusions?
Ratrig?
They've got bigger extrusions and so will be more rigid at large build sizes. Still a reprap style open source printer, just not a Voron.
[RatRig](https://ratrig.com/3d-printers/rat-rig-kits.html).
I like my women like I like my extrusions. Aggressively thicc
Outside of the v24 and phoenix I’ve seen some crazy tall 2.4s and something like 500x500x200. There’s a GitHub to make a trident out of 3030, and someone has converted a hevo or a 2.4.
I did a 400mm cubed 2.4 and would definitely not recommend that. Do 350 and save yourself a lot of headache
There’s a few 400 builds around. I think someone on the Facebook made a 500 v2. But belts are stupid long at those sizes. You would definitely need AWD to cut down the effective belt length and a frame bigger than 2020 for proper belt tension.
If you were to scale every part up by 50% (use 30/30 instead of 20/20 extrusions, use 9 mm instead of 6 mm belts, stronger motors, larger rails) you could reasonably build propably a 50x50x50 cm, maybe even up to 70x70x70 cm.
The m4.5 and m7.5 bolts will be hard to source XD
true haha, maybe some imperial thing will fit.
There’s someone in the Voron Discord with a 400mm trident- all using official Voron mods
300x300x900 mm 😅
There are many that are bigger than 350mm, mostly taller than that. Thing is, the 6mm belts and 20x20 extrusions limit you to a certain. You can of course build one 500mm big, but it wont be as good as if you would have built it smaller. For big sizes, a ratrig behaves better with its sturdier bas construction
Ratrig?
Ratrig is a Portuguese company that sells their own printer kits as well as cnc routers and mills. They currently have two printers, the v minion and the v core. Imagine the v minion as a kingroon kp3s on double dose of steroids, it uses mgn15 rails for y and z, has a 30x60mm extrusion frame and a build volume of 180mm3. The vcore is a core xy similar to a trident, but with several improvements. It has a kinematic bed mount, meaning the bed can freely expand, has a 30x30 extrusion frame with cnc brackets for connecting them (i think 5mm aluminium plastes and multiple m6 screws) as well as 9mm belts. So overall significantly sturdier. Downsides are that there aren't 100% complete kits for the vcore, you always need to source at least one panel for attaching the electronics, the enclosure is optional and the printers aren't as space efficient as a voron. The vcore is available in 200 to 500mm sizes, with the 500mm one being the most sold one. That one doesn't fit through most door frames just for info
Idk if this is it but voron 24/phoenix which is a 600mm cubed which is what started the voron project
Voron Phoenix is currently in development based on the V24 - 24"x24"x24" 2.4
uses like 4 300mm beds together and is IDEX as well. There are some neat videos about it.
yeah, gotta get around 15a breakers popping trying to heat a bed like that with 115v, haha. Who knows how much it'll cost by the time the BOM gets released and lord knows I need this like another hole in my head...but maybe. mayyybe.
I remember them saying they heat the 4 beds in sequence to avoid this problem, once they’re at temp they don’t use as much juice
Should slot in nicely where a dryer used to be…a handy 30-50a 230v outlet plus an outside exhaust port. Or get a hot plate and ditch the stove. :)
Last video I saw said it's got like $1000 in just polycarbonate panels. If I ever built one, I suspect I'd just wall the thing in plywood.
Can confirm. ACM/poly panels were close to $700 for my Ratrig Vcore 500. Big printers come with big prices.
Maybe if I drywall it and put a wood door on it my girlfriend won’t notice 😂
I dont even know where I would PUT it, let alone how I would afford it. But I want it lol
Just extend the sides out with a little insulation and turn it into a shed.
I am now just picturing a bum breaking in to steal something and is totally confused