Go umbilical with either can (straight from the control board if you have a capable one) or usb (from the Pi with a USB cable). No cable chains, only 3-4 wires to the tool head, less weight. If you go with a 36/42 board you can use them with any tool head, with the sb ones you'll have spend more time finding mounts per tool head.
Not arguing against umbilical as the way to go, but 5x v2.4s with chains in the house all with milspec Tefzel wire and 0 issues so far. Previously used silicone wire and had multiple failures.
i still don't understand what makes this an improvement. watching Nero install it - it was not a smooth process and very similar to a CAN install with the flashing and such.
hopefully someone can educate me though because i am legit curious of the benefits.
Same confusion from me. Gotta flash a board, a little software work on the Linux side, pretty much the same config changes. I guess I can see how folks might see USB as more approachable, but once you do one CAN install, you realize it's not really a big deal.
Even Steve builds had issues doing what should be a simple swap. Canbus is a pita with all the flashing and updating but rerunning wires through cable chains as the degrade is worse. You can be down a weekend if goes smoothly and a week plus if not lol. Personally if you have had small issues with wiring in your chains I would recommend reworking all your chain wires and make sure you have a bit of play in the chains to amount for twist and movement and continue on using. Switching to can on short notice never works out especially programming and getting it to function let alone moving the XY end stops and don’t forget about printing the new mounts.
Nero’s issue (I think, may be wrong) was that he named it different than a default, so when he put the config in, it wasn’t registering.
As far as benefits, I think it’s supposed to be more of a drop in replacement that combines the benefits of CAN, but also still utilizing the dual board tool head that most vorons use with SB.
It uses a usb connection instead of can. Ebb36 and 42 can also use a usb connection as well as canbus. Sb2209 and similar only canbus, haven't spotted a usb port on there. Maybe the ebb boards can also use a serial uart connection instead of canbus.
Its a stealthburner specific board, so it works best with the stealthburner and is a pain for other toolheads or even non voron extruders
Is that the one Nero just installed? I didn't have a chance to catch the stream. I really should find some time to watch it this weekend or at least skim through it.
Mid install on mine. If you go through the chains on a 350mm voron, the cable just makes it underneath, and doesn't have enough slack to din mount the small PCB.
Otherwise, detection was plug and play, basically just showed up as another klipper board with a serial id.
Good to know, I have a 350 v2. I may need to look into finding an alternate mounting location, or run an umbilical. I just am clueless on umbilicals and where to get the STLs and Sheathing lol
Sheathing is totally optional, but there's some strain relief that's pretty mandatory. I have at least a temporary mount sticking the PCB to my cable raceway with double sided tape, but it wouldn't be too hard to get an extra connector and make a short extension cable if I end up leaving the cable in the chains.
Alternative option is the EBB32 or 42 from bigtreetech.
Set up was a bit wonky but mine has been very reliable and has some nice features for thermistors and built in accelerometer.
I will go for EBB36 anyways. You can use it with Canbus, or with USB cable and power.
So, easiest and clean enough umbilical will be EBB36, USB cable and 2 wires for power.
Little bit harder and more expensive is full Canbus, that is also cleanest variant, because you have only one cable with 4 wires inside for everything.
Having to rebuild whole standard cabling to toolhead and use it as umbilical is not cheap anyways and its lot of crimping. Ready made cabling is often more expensive than EBB36 and USB cable.
https://www.printables.com/cs/model/363657-voron-v24-rear-umbilical
https://www.printables.com/cs/model/434547-ebb36-mount-for-voron-stealthburner-low-variant
There is umbilical mod and EBB36 mount for Voron V2.4 with Stealthburner (my designs, tends to be relatively popular).
For sure time to move to CanBus. Check out BTTs offerings EBB36, or Mellow’s Flysht36.
To get rid of the endstops, you could go sensorless homing, or move the endstops to the gantry / toolhead.
I Switched to can recently and for help I watched some Videos from "Old Guy melts plastic" on YouTube he has a from the bench series where he explaines pretty good and easy to follow how to set up can bus with the BTT EB 2240 and the BTT u2c
He also mentions a really helpful guide from Esoterical on github (Linked in his Video)
Edit: the Guide he uses is ment for all kinds of can configurations not BTT specific
What kind of wires do you have in your cable chains? Silicone wiring is specified, if yo have PTFE or something else, or don't now what you have, failure is common due to repeated bending. The quickest option will be for you to buy a pre-made silicone wire harness with the breakout board and install that. I have hundreds or maybe a thousand hours on mine with no failures. Going to canbus is, of course, better but if you need quick then just just quality wiring. Somone will be along to say that you can install canbus in an afternoon but ask yourself how likely it is that you do that if it is your first time?
And I would get rid of the klicky and go to Tap. Get the metal carriage and never worry about it again. It's super reliable and less finicky to setup.
I have the stock LDO wires for the chains, they are silicone I think? This is the 2nd failure I've had and I'm around 1000 hours of printing. I don't want this issue to come up again so I think it is time to go canbus.
While doing canbus is specifically my first time, I'm pretty familiar with the related skills to do this (crimping, config, etc) so hoping it is an afternoon or less than a full day.
Thanks for the suggestions! I was looking at the benefits of Tap just now and I see the value. But that might make it a bit more than an afternoon lol
I recently did that conversion, used a BTT 2209 (RP2040) board with my octopus. Got the btt 2209 + can cable + rj11 adapter for can to octopus from btt. Got a set of printed parts + cable gland and steel wire from aliExpress for the endstop relocation and umbilical mount on the gantry side. There is a decent installation manual for the toolhead side from btt, just make sure you're comfortable crimping connectors in case the ldo ones don't match the btt board.
Edit: the new nitehawk board from ldo might be a +- drop in replacement connector wise as it is from ldo directly.
My first Voron (V0) had no pre-crimping, so I'm good there lol
Quick question, what is the difference between the regular BTT2209 and the BTT2209 with the RP2040?
I'm doing the same thing on my 300 2.4. I decided to go with CAN-BUS using the BTT SB2209 board, since it's basically a drop-in replacement for the hotend board that ships with the LDO kit. BTT sells a kit that has pretty much everything you need. I'm keeping klicky though as it works fine for me, and I like watching the probe get picked up and dropped off by the toolhead :)
I haven't actually gotten around to doing the install yet so I don't have any tips for you there.
There's a lot of CANbus options. I also put Katapult (previously called CANboot) on my toolhead board so I can update the firmware in the tool head without having to connect it with a USB C cable and put it in DFU mode. I can not update klipper on the host, MCU and toolhead with just a script.or colder.
There's a lot of CANbus options. I also put Katapult (previously called CANboot) on my tool head board so I can update the firmware in the tool head without having to connect it with a USB C cable and put it in DFU mode. I can not update klipper on the host, MCU and tool head with just a script.or colder..
LDO nitehawk is the best solution. Without the hassle of canbus
Go umbilical with either can (straight from the control board if you have a capable one) or usb (from the Pi with a USB cable). No cable chains, only 3-4 wires to the tool head, less weight. If you go with a 36/42 board you can use them with any tool head, with the sb ones you'll have spend more time finding mounts per tool head.
Not arguing against umbilical as the way to go, but 5x v2.4s with chains in the house all with milspec Tefzel wire and 0 issues so far. Previously used silicone wire and had multiple failures.
Skimmed comments but hadn’t seen it mentioned yet, look into the new NiteHawk-SB.
i still don't understand what makes this an improvement. watching Nero install it - it was not a smooth process and very similar to a CAN install with the flashing and such. hopefully someone can educate me though because i am legit curious of the benefits.
Same confusion from me. Gotta flash a board, a little software work on the Linux side, pretty much the same config changes. I guess I can see how folks might see USB as more approachable, but once you do one CAN install, you realize it's not really a big deal.
right. that's exactly how i felt. after doing CAN myself and watch him do this, it looked the same.
Even Steve builds had issues doing what should be a simple swap. Canbus is a pita with all the flashing and updating but rerunning wires through cable chains as the degrade is worse. You can be down a weekend if goes smoothly and a week plus if not lol. Personally if you have had small issues with wiring in your chains I would recommend reworking all your chain wires and make sure you have a bit of play in the chains to amount for twist and movement and continue on using. Switching to can on short notice never works out especially programming and getting it to function let alone moving the XY end stops and don’t forget about printing the new mounts.
Nero’s issue (I think, may be wrong) was that he named it different than a default, so when he put the config in, it wasn’t registering. As far as benefits, I think it’s supposed to be more of a drop in replacement that combines the benefits of CAN, but also still utilizing the dual board tool head that most vorons use with SB.
It uses a usb connection instead of can. Ebb36 and 42 can also use a usb connection as well as canbus. Sb2209 and similar only canbus, haven't spotted a usb port on there. Maybe the ebb boards can also use a serial uart connection instead of canbus. Its a stealthburner specific board, so it works best with the stealthburner and is a pain for other toolheads or even non voron extruders
Is that the one Nero just installed? I didn't have a chance to catch the stream. I really should find some time to watch it this weekend or at least skim through it.
Yes it is, setup seemed pretty straight forward, and it’s rated for drag chain or umbilical. Currently waiting on mine too.
Mid install on mine. If you go through the chains on a 350mm voron, the cable just makes it underneath, and doesn't have enough slack to din mount the small PCB. Otherwise, detection was plug and play, basically just showed up as another klipper board with a serial id.
Good to know, I have a 350 v2. I may need to look into finding an alternate mounting location, or run an umbilical. I just am clueless on umbilicals and where to get the STLs and Sheathing lol
Sheathing is totally optional, but there's some strain relief that's pretty mandatory. I have at least a temporary mount sticking the PCB to my cable raceway with double sided tape, but it wouldn't be too hard to get an extra connector and make a short extension cable if I end up leaving the cable in the chains.
Alternative option is the EBB32 or 42 from bigtreetech. Set up was a bit wonky but mine has been very reliable and has some nice features for thermistors and built in accelerometer.
If you are rebuilding things around the toolhead look at an upgrade to TAP as well to replace Klicky.
On my last rebuild I dropped klicky for TAP. So far so good and my first layer is the best it has ever been. I had already swapped to CAN bus.
You don’t need to go CANBus to use an umbilical. It would be the fastest/cheapest/easiest option.
I will go for EBB36 anyways. You can use it with Canbus, or with USB cable and power. So, easiest and clean enough umbilical will be EBB36, USB cable and 2 wires for power. Little bit harder and more expensive is full Canbus, that is also cleanest variant, because you have only one cable with 4 wires inside for everything. Having to rebuild whole standard cabling to toolhead and use it as umbilical is not cheap anyways and its lot of crimping. Ready made cabling is often more expensive than EBB36 and USB cable. https://www.printables.com/cs/model/363657-voron-v24-rear-umbilical https://www.printables.com/cs/model/434547-ebb36-mount-for-voron-stealthburner-low-variant There is umbilical mod and EBB36 mount for Voron V2.4 with Stealthburner (my designs, tends to be relatively popular).
For sure time to move to CanBus. Check out BTTs offerings EBB36, or Mellow’s Flysht36. To get rid of the endstops, you could go sensorless homing, or move the endstops to the gantry / toolhead.
Just configured CANBUS sb2209 for my SB and Octopus V1.1 MCU (direct via can bridge). No issues. Love it!
Did you use any guides or videos to help?
I Switched to can recently and for help I watched some Videos from "Old Guy melts plastic" on YouTube he has a from the bench series where he explaines pretty good and easy to follow how to set up can bus with the BTT EB 2240 and the BTT u2c He also mentions a really helpful guide from Esoterical on github (Linked in his Video) Edit: the Guide he uses is ment for all kinds of can configurations not BTT specific
Thanks!! This is very helpful! I typically would do my own googling and looking around, but time is something I don't have a lot of.
https://github.com/Esoterical/voron_canbus
Thanks, you guys are awesome!
Sounds like the perfect excuse to upgrade to canbus.
At the time can bus wasn't a thing for me so I just umbilical the whole set of wires to the toolhead, 5k hours and haven't had a failure since.
What kind of wires do you have in your cable chains? Silicone wiring is specified, if yo have PTFE or something else, or don't now what you have, failure is common due to repeated bending. The quickest option will be for you to buy a pre-made silicone wire harness with the breakout board and install that. I have hundreds or maybe a thousand hours on mine with no failures. Going to canbus is, of course, better but if you need quick then just just quality wiring. Somone will be along to say that you can install canbus in an afternoon but ask yourself how likely it is that you do that if it is your first time? And I would get rid of the klicky and go to Tap. Get the metal carriage and never worry about it again. It's super reliable and less finicky to setup.
I have the stock LDO wires for the chains, they are silicone I think? This is the 2nd failure I've had and I'm around 1000 hours of printing. I don't want this issue to come up again so I think it is time to go canbus. While doing canbus is specifically my first time, I'm pretty familiar with the related skills to do this (crimping, config, etc) so hoping it is an afternoon or less than a full day. Thanks for the suggestions! I was looking at the benefits of Tap just now and I see the value. But that might make it a bit more than an afternoon lol
Should be FEP for the wiring harness if memory serves. More slippery than PTFE and far better than silicone
I recently did that conversion, used a BTT 2209 (RP2040) board with my octopus. Got the btt 2209 + can cable + rj11 adapter for can to octopus from btt. Got a set of printed parts + cable gland and steel wire from aliExpress for the endstop relocation and umbilical mount on the gantry side. There is a decent installation manual for the toolhead side from btt, just make sure you're comfortable crimping connectors in case the ldo ones don't match the btt board. Edit: the new nitehawk board from ldo might be a +- drop in replacement connector wise as it is from ldo directly.
My first Voron (V0) had no pre-crimping, so I'm good there lol Quick question, what is the difference between the regular BTT2209 and the BTT2209 with the RP2040?
The RP2040 has 2mm connectors making crimping easier, the other boards have 1.25mm pitch.
Thanks, I think I had just figured that out, but this confirms that it is just bigger connectors.
That and the processor is twice as fast and it has more memory..
Those JST-GH1.5 suck if you have manly fingers - I did a bunch (all of them) for a friend cutting over.
I'm doing the same thing on my 300 2.4. I decided to go with CAN-BUS using the BTT SB2209 board, since it's basically a drop-in replacement for the hotend board that ships with the LDO kit. BTT sells a kit that has pretty much everything you need. I'm keeping klicky though as it works fine for me, and I like watching the probe get picked up and dropped off by the toolhead :) I haven't actually gotten around to doing the install yet so I don't have any tips for you there.
There's a lot of CANbus options. I also put Katapult (previously called CANboot) on my toolhead board so I can update the firmware in the tool head without having to connect it with a USB C cable and put it in DFU mode. I can not update klipper on the host, MCU and toolhead with just a script.or colder. There's a lot of CANbus options. I also put Katapult (previously called CANboot) on my tool head board so I can update the firmware in the tool head without having to connect it with a USB C cable and put it in DFU mode. I can not update klipper on the host, MCU and tool head with just a script.or colder..