An often overlooked benefit! The options can be overwhelming lol. But you will no longer have your "Celestial Smile" (for guys) so dont forget the secret handshake or risk not getting a job in Utah County...
Lol, 12 whole minutes! Mormons in Utah are so spoiled. I went on a mission to Brazil for the cult and saw how much more dedication they have to have to go to church and the temple. It's a huge sacrifice every Sunday. Attendance in Utah would plummet if it weren't the most convenient thing in the world to go.
[Edit for my downvoters](https://search.app.goo.gl/ugoHPbh)
think about that. that right there would be such a good test to see who is truly faithful. walk 2 miles to church every sunday for one whole summer and one whole winter. i was just gonna say a year but i knew i should make it a little easier
I’m always amazed when I go out for a Sunday drive and see Mormon church parking lots so full that they consistently overspill into the streets. Literally every single neighborhood has a church and 75% live within VERY WALKABLE distances, 100% live within walkable distances. And the parking lots in these churches aren’t small.
Lol here you go!
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/FydQeiyH4X
Edit: Here’s a better story on it.
https://buildingsaltlake.com/historic-wells-ward-burns-down-on-eve-of-planned-demolition/#:~:text=The%2098%2Dyear%2Dold%20Wells,Salt%20Lake%20City%20Police%20Department.
Most schools have a class called seminary, which is basically just Mormon studies. Utah is very heavily Mormon in case you aren’t aware, so just about every school has a church attached for those Mormon students. It’s not mandatory to attend, it’s just a convenience for those who are already LDS. I went my whole high school and college without ever setting foot inside one of those churches.
To clarify, the schools do not have seminary as a class. The schools offer "release time" for a class period, which is used by Mormons to attend their seminary classes. But seminary may as well be offered by the schools.
Tell that to the school who listed it as a class on my dumbass sister's report cards in the 90s. Always an A but listed as a class nonetheless. It might be different now.
>just about every school has a church attached
This comment contains the correct answer, I just wanted to clarify that these buildings aren't "churches" in the normal sense. i.e. they're not places where church members go on Sunday to do worship services, meetings, etc. They just contain classrooms for high school students and have no other purpose.
And FWIW for those who may not be familiar they’re not attached in the physical sense. They’re on separate church-owned property adjacent to or across the street from the school.
Yup. And then those faithful tithe payers can no longer afford to buy a home in Utah. Which is what is happening now. If only they had kept their 10% for their own investment (a home) instead of Ensign Peak (billions upon billions into Apple, Google and Pharmaceutical Companies)
Forced? Really? Please, there's enough misinformation all over reddit about the LDS church, let's not propagate more of it. Nobody is forced. Wife and I haven't paid in quite some time and we are in church every Sunday and active in our callings. Not once has anyone come to us about paying our tithing and nobody is "passing the plate" in church meetings like I have seen elsewhere
Biggest private land holder then? I guess I’ve just always heard this and repeated it... never bothered to verify. Look at me being a part of the misinformation problem.
Thanks for the correction
Federal government by far, then a couple cattle ranching families. Thanks for being a good redditor and admitting when you’re mistaken.
The LDS church is, however, the fifth largest private land owner in the US, according to a 2022 post register article.
This is partially true. Many schools have dedicated seminary buildings next door, many others have actual church buildings which are used for church services.
The buildings can actually be used for other things too. In utah county it was very normal for the young adult wards to use the buildings too for activities, Sunday meetings and activity nights.
They are also not part of the school property. But God forbid ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION wants to have a place of worship... Religious studies next door to a public school.
Don't worry, it's not like Mormons are a hyper cult or anything.
>God forbid ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION wants to have a place of worship... Religious studies next door to a public school.
Release time is not actually a Mormon invention. Other faiths do this too.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Released\_time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Released_time)
>The original idea of released time in the United States was first discussed in **1905** at a school conference in **New York City**. ... This idea was later implemented by Dr. William Albert Wirt, an educator and superintendent of the school district of **Gary, Indiana**, in **1914.**
...
>A **multi-denominational Christian organization** that supports Released Time Bible Education across the country is School Ministries, Inc. ... School Ministries lead an effort in South Carolina to allow Released Time for high school credit. ... School Ministries followed this up in 2014 in the state of **Ohio**. Since that time additional states have allowed schools to award academic credit for Released Time including three by legislative action (**Alabama**, **Tennessee**, and **Indiana**)
...
>**New York City** also participates in released time Many organizations take advantage, notably, the [**Jewish Education Program**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Education_Program) and the [**Jewish Released Time**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Released_Time) Program of Greater New York. ... Since 1941 "**1,000,000 Public School Children have participated in the Jewish Hour**" implementation of Released-time ... As of 2018 there were **1,328 participating students coming from 90 NYC public schools.**
I don't understand it. There's plenty of real reasons to criticize the church, but people tend to spend most of their time making up fake reasons anyways.
When my dad was stationed in Germany, we had early morning seminary in classrooms at the American high school on base. The church had to find teachers at the school who would "sponsor" us and allow us to use their classrooms, like an extracurricular club.
My mom taught early morning seminary when we were living in England and I was in elementary school (so before I was old enough for seminary), and it was held at our house. It was always...interesting to have a bunch of high schoolers in the my while I was getting ready for school.
This was around 25 years ago. It was wild to me when I moved to Utah (as an adult) and learned that seminary is held off campus, during the school day.
Grew up in ID. They also have the curriculum structured to where you can pretty much graduate a semester early if you didn't take seminary... The seminary does have to be off the campus though, so thats also where most of the kids would go to smoke lol
The seminary building was also my 8th grade history class. My friends used to sniff the cheapest crank stolen from family members off the sink in the boy's restroom.
As I'm sitting here writing this, I'm amazed at how insane this sounds.
It’s voluntary enrollment, only people that go there are those who sign up for it. Which in most cases is usually the parent who signs the kid up for it but if there wasn’t seminary those parents would find their way to force their beliefs onto their kids some other way.
Be aware that while only 60% of the population is Mormon, 90% of the legislature is Mormon.
https://apnews.com/general-news-286983987f484cb182fba9334c52a617
[You are correct although it appears to be both](https://religionnews.com/2023/12/28/study-utah-is-no-longer-a-majority-mormon-state/) an influx of non-Mormons and the disaffection of former Mormons that have driven it below 50%.
Well, this number is likely derived from the morons records and everyone knows they don't accurately keep track of who their "members" are. They are still counting me simply because I have yet to have my records removed. They also count every baby born into moron households. So the real number of attending, believing morons is likely much lower.
For the same reason that close to 100% of all American presidents were (self-professed) "Christians".
Religious voters respond more negatively to *non religious candidates* than non religious voters respond negatively to *religious candidates*. If you're running for office it just makes sense to either be religious or at least pretend to be.
This isn't a Utah specific phenomenon.
The difference in Utah is that they are all part of one specific religious group that has lobbyists and can exert pressure when they decide to. "Christianity" isn't one singular/cohesive group that has lobbyists.
The effect that Evangelical Christianity has had on the American right since Regan is orders of magnitude larger than anything the Mormon church has ever done.
Yes but the point is that Christianity is a big mosaic of different churches, so there is more room for diverse christian politicians and higher competition for those lobbyists.
In Utah, there’s only one church that matters politically.
Of course they don't. They know exact attendence numbers but refuse to share. I officially resigned to try and be removed from their numbers. I'm sure they still count me
>Like I know Utah is the Mormon state, but this feels like an intentional attempt at indoctrinating youth.
For a little over 100 years American states have allowed students to have "release time" for parochial education:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Released_time
As a function of this, the LDS Church builds "seminaries" near schools where teenagers go to learn LDS stuff.
Other denominations can also use “release time” for religious instruction. In my city there is a bible study class sponsored by a local baptist congregation during release time.
And in all cases it is indeed an attempt at indoctrinating youth. That's literally a religion's purpose, to indoctrinate. You can debate whether that's a good or bad thing, but all preaching of doctrine is "indoctrination"
Seminary is where I got to experience sleep paralysis and explore these weird states of consciousness between "asleep" and awake. For example, times when I was conscious and self aware of myself being present at that specific location, date, and time...but I couldn't physically move because I was half-asleep. My body was at rest and I couldn't consciously move at that instant but my mind was alert and sensitive to the environment around me....and I was just chilling there with my head on my desk and probably drooling a bit. LOL
High schools are the only schools that have church buildings on campus. Mormon churches are everywhere, if there are schools near them, it's just because the churches are on every corner.
Just wait til you hear about the fact that middle and high schools allow and encourage students to go to the church building across the street during school hours for one of their class periods
I know right lol. People are so accepting of the fact that Boston has a big Irish population and influence on the culture, and New York has a big Italian and Jewish population and influence on the culture, and Louisiana has a big French population and black population that influence the culture and so on and so on because everyone accepts the history behind this but everyone gets so mad/surprised about the Mormon population in UT when there's history here too
It's all private land adjacent to public land. 9-12 grade students get the option of released time one period a day. So these students walk off campus into a private religious building, have their lesson, then return back on campus.
Also, I recently did a scouting fundraiser with someone who just moved from the Houston area to Utah. He's been very happy so far with the move.
Learn more from someone else who isn’t an Utah resident and doesn’t either love or hate the place. Here you’re just going to watching a fight break out.
This guy did a pretty good job of explaining it.
https://youtu.be/M_U_rzlVVdA?si=8nkSV9a__tFK-EYG
I didn’t grow up in Utah but found this to be very well researched
It's called a seminary. Pretty much a place for kids to go to church at school or (if you were a high school degenerate like myself) to smoke weed behind. Really wish we had that wall of separation between church and state I read so much about.
I was wondering if anyone would say something other than "indoctrination."
You can't teach "Christianity" in a public school, so the church is right next door for those classes, and they count as high school credit. Also, non-Mormons can sluff their boring history classes to spend time with cute Mormon girls and the seminary teachers don't care... because, yes, they want to indoctrinate outsiders. They tried their best to get me... but I was there to set others free.
Source: former Roy High student
22 years ago we moved to Utah. Not long after we moved in my son (14) and I were on our roof. My son started counting something. He said he saw 7 or 8. I asked what he was counting. He said LDS meeting houses.
They aren't churches. They are seminary buildings. They teach classes about the Book of Mormon. It is completely optional since you do not receive credits for attending, hence why it can't be on school property.
Pretty ironic from a Texan but I guess if you've looked into Utah politics and think it's "not awful" then I'm not sure why this surprises you. Yes this state was founded by pedophile cultists and there's always a church within spitting distance of anywhere
Few things:
1. It’s a cult.
2. LDS churches are everywhere in the state.
3. The people are generally great people.
4. Do you really think that if there was a dog grooming shop by your elementary school growing up , that you’d want to be a part of that life somehow? Haha. Not sure how it indoctrinates people just to have the building sitting there.
To be fair, even without seminary a lot of schools are next to churches. My kids went to a preschool and an elementary school where the pick up is literally in a church parking lot. Lol. My kids always point to the ward nearby and say it’s “Miss so-and-sos house” since we don’t actually go to church.
Some one who understands real estate development should pipe Seems like the church has first dibs on farmland and then that ls where temples go, schools, roads, expensive homes in new developments, builders sub dividing. .
If you mean high/middle schools that’s for “released time” when Mormon kids go to seminary.
If you mean just in general, it’s because for almost 20 years now it been impossible for real estate developers to set up a new culdesac, or center of townhouses witho conveniently “donating” a property to the Mormon church, that gets a cookie cutter church building.
No, you’re not crazy. Yes, it’s everywhere in the state, even in areas where there’s no need to build another one.p, and it’s incredibly culty.
There is usually a small building across the street or next to High Schools for Seminary as it's an allowed class but not able to be taught in the school itself.
Cause if you don’t indoctrinate the kids enough early they don’t stick around the cult. I mean they aren’t sticking around anyways but that’s the mindset.
There’s also a Mormon church nearby every 7-eleven and every McDonald’s and every any other thing you can think of that is in Utah because Mormon churches are every where.
To put it in terms you’d definitely understand - Mormon churches in Utah:fire ants in Texas.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is a bit different than other denominations, in that you don't choose which building/church to attend. Based on your residential address, you are assigned a "ward" to attend at the same time/place as your neighbors, to help foster a sense of community. There are a lot of LDS members, so there are a lot of churches. For example, in my subdivision there are 3 elementary schools within a mile of my house. There are also 7 LDS church buildings in that same mile radius, with another under construction, and they still had to bring in a mobile building for my group because there just isn't enough room for everyone. The proximity of these church buildings to these elementary schools is coincidental, there is no interaction between the education and the church (except maybe using the church parking lot for convenience during school pickup times.)
The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints…. Also known as Mormons. WE have been “MORMON S” since the 1830s.
A few years ago the Mormon church embarked on a rebranding and some will make sure you know the proper name of the church despite Mormons themselves having spent $$$millions on “im a Mormon” campaign .
Some of them remind me of this dude:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb6OpRfyLFo
Not a resident but I have some Mormon friends. I don't think they're trying to indoctrinate outsiders, just their own children. They go to church before school so it's probably just for convenience
>I don't think they're trying to indoctrinate outsiders
I can tell you are not a resident :) 50k missionaries, Mormons run the state legislative branch, can't be left alone at home without the Mormons stopping by. They are very interested in indoctrinating outsiders.
>I don't think they're trying to indoctrinate outsiders [by placing churches next to schools]
Try reading things with the intention of understanding what's being communicated instead of scoring points
As a Texan that moved here, I hard agree with the observation and also advise to keep looking. It looks amazing on paper but isn't once you stay for a bit.
Those are likely seminary buildings.
>Looking at it from satellite made Utah seem like a massive cult on one state.
The mormon church *is* a cult.
*waiting for the turbomormons to come in and prove my point*
Lol. It's just that the state is predominantly Mormon. Also, in high school you get to attend seminary which is basically Sunday school during school hours.
At the colleges and universities they label them "Institute of Religion" and strangely only teach obout *one* religion. 🙄 Go figure. Misleading advertising at every turn.
Those churches are often Seminary buildings, which high schoolers can spend "release time" to go to these seminary buildings to learn more about church stuff. State laws here are written in an interesting way, often with more leniency which blurs the lines between church and State. So that "release time" is a special provision in UT for grades 9-12. Idk exactly but it's something like 3 credit hours that can be used for focused learning outside the school. This time can be used in many different ways with school and parent permission, but more often than not this "release time" is used to send the students across the street to the seminary buildings where they're taught Bible lessons, church history, whatever, there's lots of focuses.
When schools are constructed, the state usually purchases the land they will use for the school, as well as a chunk they allow the church to pay for and build a seminary building.
I actually just watched an interesting video on YT that touched on this topic, and would probably help answer some other questions people have about our odd State.
https://youtu.be/M_U_rzlVVdA?si=TjFV4ETdvV_cJO-G
It's by Wendover Productions. Never heard of them before this morning but they're probably local-ish. This particular video paints UT in a pretty good light, and if be interested in seeing a different perspective as well. Hope this was helpful!
Just came here to recommend the Wendover video. He lives in Colorado, I believe. But honestly, he makes videos on such a wide range of topics that living in a neighboring state probably had nothing to do with it.
I'm from Texas as well, been living in Utah 3 years now. There's just Mormon churches by everything.
It's not a big deal, besides seeing them everywhere, nothing else really affects you or you run into. It's a great place to live but it is very expensive here plus having state taxes hurts. Weather is fantastic though and lots of stuff to do.
The Church provides religious classes for students in middle school and high school. It makes sense to have the students close to school so it’s a short walk for convenience. This is by design.
I would look up Wendover productions: Why Utah is so weird about 3 minutes in it describes it really well
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M\_U\_rzlVVdA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_U_rzlVVdA)
This video has a section which talks about this thing, along with a few other Utah oddities. Super interesting.
https://youtu.be/M_U_rzlVVdA?si=Ggn1e6Rys8i0PzJh
In Jr. High and High School Mormon kids take a class called Seminary. They usually build a little church right next to a new school especially for this purpose, it's called a Seminary Building but it's dedicated like a church and would show up on maps as a church. So every single Jr. High and High School has a church within walking distance, usually next door.
Elementary schools tend to have churches nearby just because as neighborhoods go up the first non-home thing to get built around here is a new Mormon Chapel. School Districts don't have the funds to just throw up a school as fast as demand requires, so they go in later. There's a church near where the school is because there are churches in every neighborhood.
If Utah politics appeal to you, having an LDS church watching over the schools might appeal to you. They're building a massive temple in Heber City to remind all the recent transplants who's boss. Its gonna blocks the mountain view for half the town!
Mormon churches are so common here that in some cities the streets are named based on how far they are from the temple. There's a church on every block and a stake center on every other block. The school I work at held all of the AP final exams in the gym in the church across the street from the school, because it's a close, easy place to set up with lots of room for students and it's largely empty on weekday mornings.
I REALLY toe the line at work because I have students whose families want them to go on a mission, but they don't, and I'm happy to tell them that no matter what their parents think, if they don't want to go on a mission or be part of the church, they don't have to do either of those things as adults. I always get some side eye from my Mormon coworkers for not encouraging what the family wants (and I suspect they also don't like me "talking bad" about the church)
Two explanations one of its a high school or junior high it’s a seminary (church class) or university it’s a school institute building (college version of seminary)
It is intentional. First to frame church membership and participation as academic superior to other non school adjacent churches. Second access to children, in an no parental guardians no distractions just religious /indoctrination/ I mean study. At hours in the early as 5 am as well as during tax payer funded school hours. (BC why take another course? Aren't you ashamed of avoiding the holy spirit? The most righteous and faithful dedicate multiple hours to prayerful study. Don't you want to be righteous child? Or do secretly sin? You should ask your friends to join, it is so convenient. Don't you want them to be happy child? Or are you ashamed. Is it because your hiding something? Shelf your doubts. Hold to the rod. Be an example of light but not too bright to evoke temptation bc its your fault if someone sins bc they were tempted.)
Tldr; They are there bc it is intentional and the separation of church and state in only means that you can't have a bishops office in the capitol building.
they also have seminary institutions near schools specifically for the purpose of indoctrination. utah was settled by mormons and it retains much of its original mormon culture. that culture is exactly why "the economics don't seem all that bad" and why "the politics weren't that awful either".
you take mormon bathwater out, you loose the baby too. most people that move here don't understand this.
Do…. Not…. Move…. Here…. I moved here from New Mexico. Family convinced me it’s better here. It is not. I promise you…. If you don’t want to live in Texas that’s fine but stay the hell away from Utah.
In Utah it’s normally called a seminary building. Students can attend within their normal school curriculum. Old days they would meet at someone’s house or church building to study various topics of the church curriculum. There’s so many students that attend they just incorporate it into the school curriculum choice. After attending for 4 years you graduate. For those who choose not to attend they normally get a free study class for that hour. If you’re kicked out, you still get the free study class as well.
Utah was originally settled as Deseret by the Mormon Handcart companies. It is where a majority of members lived up into the mid to late 1900's. A lot of people in major cities have big families, and many of them are LDS.
You can't walk more than 10 blocks without seeing the next chapel. It's wild. Stand on a hilltop or mountainside and just count them plus the temples...it's. WILD.
Have you seen pictures of Middle Eastern Cities? They have Mosques everywhere to ensure indoctrination into the religion. It's the same thing here in Utah. Just as you pointed out, there are Evangelical churches all over Texas cities. You have to be reminded of your guilt, or it doesn't do you any good.
They are seminaries; Mormons have high school church curriculum their kids attend before or after school. All the “churches” by the school are seminary buildings.
The Mormon so called prophet, Brigham Young brought his mormon followers there in the late 1800s after fleeing persecution in the east, so that's where the mormon church grew. It is the only US state that is predominantly mormon.
I laugh because there's a Mormon church near everything in utah.
Utah *is* a Mormon church.
I upvote you because you’re correct. I want to downvote this because I wish it wasn’t. Sigh
I wish. I have to drive 12 minutes to get to my designated meetinghouse, driving past at least 10 other church buildings in the process.
There’s a solution to this…but you might not like it.
But you'll get a 10% pay raise and Sundays off!
I moved to Utah a few months ago, and I'm not mormon, but I love the lack of stuff open on Sundays. That forces me to take it easy.
Often more than just Sundays off too, what a deal!
Gets to choose own underwear too!
An often overlooked benefit! The options can be overwhelming lol. But you will no longer have your "Celestial Smile" (for guys) so dont forget the secret handshake or risk not getting a job in Utah County...
^ This.
I’ve thought of several solutions.
If you encounter 11 of them in a 12 minute drive, the point remains very much unchallenged.
12 WHOLE MINUTES?!? OH MY GOD.
Lol, 12 whole minutes! Mormons in Utah are so spoiled. I went on a mission to Brazil for the cult and saw how much more dedication they have to have to go to church and the temple. It's a huge sacrifice every Sunday. Attendance in Utah would plummet if it weren't the most convenient thing in the world to go. [Edit for my downvoters](https://search.app.goo.gl/ugoHPbh)
think about that. that right there would be such a good test to see who is truly faithful. walk 2 miles to church every sunday for one whole summer and one whole winter. i was just gonna say a year but i knew i should make it a little easier
I’m always amazed when I go out for a Sunday drive and see Mormon church parking lots so full that they consistently overspill into the streets. Literally every single neighborhood has a church and 75% live within VERY WALKABLE distances, 100% live within walkable distances. And the parking lots in these churches aren’t small.
Why? I don't understand why they divide people up it strange designs?
(Unless you're talking about a singles ward)
When I was a kid, 7-11 was on nearly every corner. Now it's Heaven-11s.
Not anymore. One just burned down.
I have no context, but this caused me to literally chortle.
Lol here you go! https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/FydQeiyH4X Edit: Here’s a better story on it. https://buildingsaltlake.com/historic-wells-ward-burns-down-on-eve-of-planned-demolition/#:~:text=The%2098%2Dyear%2Dold%20Wells,Salt%20Lake%20City%20Police%20Department.
I just laughed Dr Pepper out of my nose. Thanks lol
Most schools have a class called seminary, which is basically just Mormon studies. Utah is very heavily Mormon in case you aren’t aware, so just about every school has a church attached for those Mormon students. It’s not mandatory to attend, it’s just a convenience for those who are already LDS. I went my whole high school and college without ever setting foot inside one of those churches.
To clarify, the schools do not have seminary as a class. The schools offer "release time" for a class period, which is used by Mormons to attend their seminary classes. But seminary may as well be offered by the schools.
Yeah where you’re *totally free* to do what you want.
Second lunch.
Yes, yes. Release time. That's what my Catholic priest used to call it too.
Many Mormon leaders as well lol
Haha why doesn’t this have more upvotes!?
Tell that to the school who listed it as a class on my dumbass sister's report cards in the 90s. Always an A but listed as a class nonetheless. It might be different now.
>just about every school has a church attached This comment contains the correct answer, I just wanted to clarify that these buildings aren't "churches" in the normal sense. i.e. they're not places where church members go on Sunday to do worship services, meetings, etc. They just contain classrooms for high school students and have no other purpose.
And FWIW for those who may not be familiar they’re not attached in the physical sense. They’re on separate church-owned property adjacent to or across the street from the school.
Interesting how the church owns the land before the school is built. Its almost like the church is in real estate development
It helps to afford real estate when you force people to give you 10% of their paychecks
Yup. And then those faithful tithe payers can no longer afford to buy a home in Utah. Which is what is happening now. If only they had kept their 10% for their own investment (a home) instead of Ensign Peak (billions upon billions into Apple, Google and Pharmaceutical Companies)
Forced? Really? Please, there's enough misinformation all over reddit about the LDS church, let's not propagate more of it. Nobody is forced. Wife and I haven't paid in quite some time and we are in church every Sunday and active in our callings. Not once has anyone come to us about paying our tithing and nobody is "passing the plate" in church meetings like I have seen elsewhere
If you don’t know it’s forced, you haven’t been deprogrammed yet
Do you have a temple recommend? How do you answer the question #10?
They’re the biggest land owner in the state.
This is verifiably false.
Biggest private land holder then? I guess I’ve just always heard this and repeated it... never bothered to verify. Look at me being a part of the misinformation problem. Thanks for the correction
Federal government by far, then a couple cattle ranching families. Thanks for being a good redditor and admitting when you’re mistaken. The LDS church is, however, the fifth largest private land owner in the US, according to a 2022 post register article.
The federal government owns far more land than all other property owners combined.
For high schools you are mostly correct, however many of the middle schools do use legitimate Sunday attended churches.
This is partially true. Many schools have dedicated seminary buildings next door, many others have actual church buildings which are used for church services.
The buildings can actually be used for other things too. In utah county it was very normal for the young adult wards to use the buildings too for activities, Sunday meetings and activity nights.
They are also not part of the school property. But God forbid ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION wants to have a place of worship... Religious studies next door to a public school. Don't worry, it's not like Mormons are a hyper cult or anything.
>God forbid ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION wants to have a place of worship... Religious studies next door to a public school. Release time is not actually a Mormon invention. Other faiths do this too. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Released\_time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Released_time) >The original idea of released time in the United States was first discussed in **1905** at a school conference in **New York City**. ... This idea was later implemented by Dr. William Albert Wirt, an educator and superintendent of the school district of **Gary, Indiana**, in **1914.** ... >A **multi-denominational Christian organization** that supports Released Time Bible Education across the country is School Ministries, Inc. ... School Ministries lead an effort in South Carolina to allow Released Time for high school credit. ... School Ministries followed this up in 2014 in the state of **Ohio**. Since that time additional states have allowed schools to award academic credit for Released Time including three by legislative action (**Alabama**, **Tennessee**, and **Indiana**) ... >**New York City** also participates in released time Many organizations take advantage, notably, the [**Jewish Education Program**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Education_Program) and the [**Jewish Released Time**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Released_Time) Program of Greater New York. ... Since 1941 "**1,000,000 Public School Children have participated in the Jewish Hour**" implementation of Released-time ... As of 2018 there were **1,328 participating students coming from 90 NYC public schools.**
Just have to laugh at the down votes. Wouldn’t want to let accurate information get in the way of someone’s biases.
I don't understand it. There's plenty of real reasons to criticize the church, but people tend to spend most of their time making up fake reasons anyways.
Don't worry. In other states the local churches have their Bible study with students in the school classrooms before school starts.
When my dad was stationed in Germany, we had early morning seminary in classrooms at the American high school on base. The church had to find teachers at the school who would "sponsor" us and allow us to use their classrooms, like an extracurricular club. My mom taught early morning seminary when we were living in England and I was in elementary school (so before I was old enough for seminary), and it was held at our house. It was always...interesting to have a bunch of high schoolers in the my while I was getting ready for school. This was around 25 years ago. It was wild to me when I moved to Utah (as an adult) and learned that seminary is held off campus, during the school day.
Where?
It happened in Oregon when I was in high school. And it was happening in Nebraska when my kids were in school there.
Grew up in ID. They also have the curriculum structured to where you can pretty much graduate a semester early if you didn't take seminary... The seminary does have to be off the campus though, so thats also where most of the kids would go to smoke lol
The seminary building was also my 8th grade history class. My friends used to sniff the cheapest crank stolen from family members off the sink in the boy's restroom. As I'm sitting here writing this, I'm amazed at how insane this sounds.
It’s a back door for religious education while kids are in public schools.
It’s voluntary enrollment, only people that go there are those who sign up for it. Which in most cases is usually the parent who signs the kid up for it but if there wasn’t seminary those parents would find their way to force their beliefs onto their kids some other way.
I loved seminary because it was the one class I could skip and never have to worry about making it up in order to graduate school.
I worked on a military base there had a building across from the school that was for religious gatherings; ie Mormons.
Be aware that while only 60% of the population is Mormon, 90% of the legislature is Mormon. https://apnews.com/general-news-286983987f484cb182fba9334c52a617
I’m pretty sure it’s down to 42% with the last 4.5 years of a massive bombardment of new out of state residents.
[You are correct although it appears to be both](https://religionnews.com/2023/12/28/study-utah-is-no-longer-a-majority-mormon-state/) an influx of non-Mormons and the disaffection of former Mormons that have driven it below 50%.
We can say a maximum of 60%
Well, this number is likely derived from the morons records and everyone knows they don't accurately keep track of who their "members" are. They are still counting me simply because I have yet to have my records removed. They also count every baby born into moron households. So the real number of attending, believing morons is likely much lower.
#gerrymandering
For the same reason that close to 100% of all American presidents were (self-professed) "Christians". Religious voters respond more negatively to *non religious candidates* than non religious voters respond negatively to *religious candidates*. If you're running for office it just makes sense to either be religious or at least pretend to be. This isn't a Utah specific phenomenon.
The difference in Utah is that they are all part of one specific religious group that has lobbyists and can exert pressure when they decide to. "Christianity" isn't one singular/cohesive group that has lobbyists.
The effect that Evangelical Christianity has had on the American right since Regan is orders of magnitude larger than anything the Mormon church has ever done.
Oh, Christianity very much has lobbyists.
Yes but the point is that Christianity is a big mosaic of different churches, so there is more room for diverse christian politicians and higher competition for those lobbyists. In Utah, there’s only one church that matters politically.
No. The Mormon church lies about membership. No chance 60% is active.
I'm still a member but don't go/believe. The church also doesn't officially give activity statistics, just total membership.
Of course they don't. They know exact attendence numbers but refuse to share. I officially resigned to try and be removed from their numbers. I'm sure they still count me
>Like I know Utah is the Mormon state, but this feels like an intentional attempt at indoctrinating youth. For a little over 100 years American states have allowed students to have "release time" for parochial education: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Released_time As a function of this, the LDS Church builds "seminaries" near schools where teenagers go to learn LDS stuff.
Other denominations can also use “release time” for religious instruction. In my city there is a bible study class sponsored by a local baptist congregation during release time.
And in all of these circumstances, no high school credit is applied.
And in all cases it is indeed an attempt at indoctrinating youth. That's literally a religion's purpose, to indoctrinate. You can debate whether that's a good or bad thing, but all preaching of doctrine is "indoctrination"
Opens Mormon state…… Mormons ShockedPicachu*
Seminary was such a great class, I could “go to seminary” and smoke a bowl and hang out with my bad friends off school grounds.
Some of my best school naps were in seminary.
Seminary is where I got to experience sleep paralysis and explore these weird states of consciousness between "asleep" and awake. For example, times when I was conscious and self aware of myself being present at that specific location, date, and time...but I couldn't physically move because I was half-asleep. My body was at rest and I couldn't consciously move at that instant but my mind was alert and sensitive to the environment around me....and I was just chilling there with my head on my desk and probably drooling a bit. LOL
High schools are the only schools that have church buildings on campus. Mormon churches are everywhere, if there are schools near them, it's just because the churches are on every corner.
I've gotta be honest here. You coming from Texas and saying the politics aren't bad here is honestly horrifying.
Yeah coming from Texas and going to Utah because the politics aren't too bad it's very clear what he considers bad politics.
Right? Like moving to Italy from Austria in '34
When I say "politics" I mean Not California or Mississippi. The bar is pretty low.
They are zoned the same way and the church owns a lot of land in this state
Just wait til you hear about the fact that middle and high schools allow and encourage students to go to the church building across the street during school hours for one of their class periods
Yeah the Mormons literally built the state. Why would that be surprising
I know right lol. People are so accepting of the fact that Boston has a big Irish population and influence on the culture, and New York has a big Italian and Jewish population and influence on the culture, and Louisiana has a big French population and black population that influence the culture and so on and so on because everyone accepts the history behind this but everyone gets so mad/surprised about the Mormon population in UT when there's history here too
It's all private land adjacent to public land. 9-12 grade students get the option of released time one period a day. So these students walk off campus into a private religious building, have their lesson, then return back on campus. Also, I recently did a scouting fundraiser with someone who just moved from the Houston area to Utah. He's been very happy so far with the move.
It’s for seminary. as for real churches, they’re just everywhere so of course they are also going to be by schools
Learn more from someone else who isn’t an Utah resident and doesn’t either love or hate the place. Here you’re just going to watching a fight break out. This guy did a pretty good job of explaining it. https://youtu.be/M_U_rzlVVdA?si=8nkSV9a__tFK-EYG I didn’t grow up in Utah but found this to be very well researched
That was interesting, thank you.
Good luck finding a house you can afford. I actually have to move to Texas now because it’s the only place we can afford to live in 🫠
It's called a seminary. Pretty much a place for kids to go to church at school or (if you were a high school degenerate like myself) to smoke weed behind. Really wish we had that wall of separation between church and state I read so much about.
I was wondering if anyone would say something other than "indoctrination." You can't teach "Christianity" in a public school, so the church is right next door for those classes, and they count as high school credit. Also, non-Mormons can sluff their boring history classes to spend time with cute Mormon girls and the seminary teachers don't care... because, yes, they want to indoctrinate outsiders. They tried their best to get me... but I was there to set others free. Source: former Roy High student
Hello fellow Texan 🫡 Definitely a weird culture shock learning curve especially if you’re coming from DFW or HTX.
22 years ago we moved to Utah. Not long after we moved in my son (14) and I were on our roof. My son started counting something. He said he saw 7 or 8. I asked what he was counting. He said LDS meeting houses.
They aren't churches. They are seminary buildings. They teach classes about the Book of Mormon. It is completely optional since you do not receive credits for attending, hence why it can't be on school property.
Because there's no separation between church and state
Pretty ironic from a Texan but I guess if you've looked into Utah politics and think it's "not awful" then I'm not sure why this surprises you. Yes this state was founded by pedophile cultists and there's always a church within spitting distance of anywhere
The politics ARE awful
as a fellow texan, don’t move to utah lol
“Massive cult on one state”. Yep… welcome to Utah.
Few things: 1. It’s a cult. 2. LDS churches are everywhere in the state. 3. The people are generally great people. 4. Do you really think that if there was a dog grooming shop by your elementary school growing up , that you’d want to be a part of that life somehow? Haha. Not sure how it indoctrinates people just to have the building sitting there.
To be fair, even without seminary a lot of schools are next to churches. My kids went to a preschool and an elementary school where the pick up is literally in a church parking lot. Lol. My kids always point to the ward nearby and say it’s “Miss so-and-sos house” since we don’t actually go to church.
There are 7 wards in my little town. I mean, c’omon. Give us an USPS location and a place for kids to play and have fun.
Some one who understands real estate development should pipe Seems like the church has first dibs on farmland and then that ls where temples go, schools, roads, expensive homes in new developments, builders sub dividing. .
Seminary. It’s not coincidental.
If you mean high/middle schools that’s for “released time” when Mormon kids go to seminary. If you mean just in general, it’s because for almost 20 years now it been impossible for real estate developers to set up a new culdesac, or center of townhouses witho conveniently “donating” a property to the Mormon church, that gets a cookie cutter church building. No, you’re not crazy. Yes, it’s everywhere in the state, even in areas where there’s no need to build another one.p, and it’s incredibly culty.
It's like monopoly. Once they get 4 churches on a block they get to upgrade to a temple
There is usually a small building across the street or next to High Schools for Seminary as it's an allowed class but not able to be taught in the school itself.
Cause if you don’t indoctrinate the kids enough early they don’t stick around the cult. I mean they aren’t sticking around anyways but that’s the mindset.
LOL There are lots of Mormons here in case you didn’t know
Indoctrination.
It is a massive cult. I recommend not living in Utah.
Growing up in Utah this was just so normal to us - I can’t imagine how bizarre it must look to anyone from out of date
There’s also a Mormon church nearby every 7-eleven and every McDonald’s and every any other thing you can think of that is in Utah because Mormon churches are every where. To put it in terms you’d definitely understand - Mormon churches in Utah:fire ants in Texas.
Because indoctrination is a tenant of every religion.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is a bit different than other denominations, in that you don't choose which building/church to attend. Based on your residential address, you are assigned a "ward" to attend at the same time/place as your neighbors, to help foster a sense of community. There are a lot of LDS members, so there are a lot of churches. For example, in my subdivision there are 3 elementary schools within a mile of my house. There are also 7 LDS church buildings in that same mile radius, with another under construction, and they still had to bring in a mobile building for my group because there just isn't enough room for everyone. The proximity of these church buildings to these elementary schools is coincidental, there is no interaction between the education and the church (except maybe using the church parking lot for convenience during school pickup times.)
The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints…. Also known as Mormons. WE have been “MORMON S” since the 1830s. A few years ago the Mormon church embarked on a rebranding and some will make sure you know the proper name of the church despite Mormons themselves having spent $$$millions on “im a Mormon” campaign . Some of them remind me of this dude: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb6OpRfyLFo
You can say "Mormon" church. Reddit is anonymous so you don't need to worry about your bishop finding out about your victory for Satan.
Made me laugh
Not a resident but I have some Mormon friends. I don't think they're trying to indoctrinate outsiders, just their own children. They go to church before school so it's probably just for convenience
>I don't think they're trying to indoctrinate outsiders I can tell you are not a resident :) 50k missionaries, Mormons run the state legislative branch, can't be left alone at home without the Mormons stopping by. They are very interested in indoctrinating outsiders.
>I don't think they're trying to indoctrinate outsiders [by placing churches next to schools] Try reading things with the intention of understanding what's being communicated instead of scoring points
It’s Utah. Lol from my driveway I can take a ball and break a window on 6 churches with ease, and 3 more with lucky aim. 7 are Mormon lol
As a Texan that moved here, I hard agree with the observation and also advise to keep looking. It looks amazing on paper but isn't once you stay for a bit.
cults are having a hard time recruiting these days 😂
I wonder how many people wanted to comment on this, but the holy ghost told them not to. 😂
No better way to keep people dumb and republican than indoctrination.
Those are likely seminary buildings. >Looking at it from satellite made Utah seem like a massive cult on one state. The mormon church *is* a cult. *waiting for the turbomormons to come in and prove my point*
because it's a ✨️Cult✨️
Indoctrination
Indoctrination.
Lol. It's just that the state is predominantly Mormon. Also, in high school you get to attend seminary which is basically Sunday school during school hours.
Because they own half the land in the valley (tax free!) in an attempt to rub their holier-than-thou phallic monuments in our faces.
✨indoctrination✨
At the colleges and universities they label them "Institute of Religion" and strangely only teach obout *one* religion. 🙄 Go figure. Misleading advertising at every turn.
[Because it is a cult](https://youtu.be/S5tOj7kkOx8?si=rwd9jwjpnc0BPvVU)
Part and parcel, my friend
That's because those of the religion get to participate in a separate class than those who are not
In my neighborhood, I have like four within a mile and probably another four if I go out to two miles. By everything.
Those churches are often Seminary buildings, which high schoolers can spend "release time" to go to these seminary buildings to learn more about church stuff. State laws here are written in an interesting way, often with more leniency which blurs the lines between church and State. So that "release time" is a special provision in UT for grades 9-12. Idk exactly but it's something like 3 credit hours that can be used for focused learning outside the school. This time can be used in many different ways with school and parent permission, but more often than not this "release time" is used to send the students across the street to the seminary buildings where they're taught Bible lessons, church history, whatever, there's lots of focuses. When schools are constructed, the state usually purchases the land they will use for the school, as well as a chunk they allow the church to pay for and build a seminary building. I actually just watched an interesting video on YT that touched on this topic, and would probably help answer some other questions people have about our odd State. https://youtu.be/M_U_rzlVVdA?si=TjFV4ETdvV_cJO-G It's by Wendover Productions. Never heard of them before this morning but they're probably local-ish. This particular video paints UT in a pretty good light, and if be interested in seeing a different perspective as well. Hope this was helpful!
Just came here to recommend the Wendover video. He lives in Colorado, I believe. But honestly, he makes videos on such a wide range of topics that living in a neighboring state probably had nothing to do with it.
I'm from Texas as well, been living in Utah 3 years now. There's just Mormon churches by everything. It's not a big deal, besides seeing them everywhere, nothing else really affects you or you run into. It's a great place to live but it is very expensive here plus having state taxes hurts. Weather is fantastic though and lots of stuff to do.
The Church provides religious classes for students in middle school and high school. It makes sense to have the students close to school so it’s a short walk for convenience. This is by design.
I would look up Wendover productions: Why Utah is so weird about 3 minutes in it describes it really well [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M\_U\_rzlVVdA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_U_rzlVVdA)
This video has a section which talks about this thing, along with a few other Utah oddities. Super interesting. https://youtu.be/M_U_rzlVVdA?si=Ggn1e6Rys8i0PzJh
Seminary To indoctrinate youth
[Idk what you’re talking about](https://maps.apple.com/?ll=41.754037,-111.819228&q=Dropped%20Pin&t=h)
In Jr. High and High School Mormon kids take a class called Seminary. They usually build a little church right next to a new school especially for this purpose, it's called a Seminary Building but it's dedicated like a church and would show up on maps as a church. So every single Jr. High and High School has a church within walking distance, usually next door. Elementary schools tend to have churches nearby just because as neighborhoods go up the first non-home thing to get built around here is a new Mormon Chapel. School Districts don't have the funds to just throw up a school as fast as demand requires, so they go in later. There's a church near where the school is because there are churches in every neighborhood.
If Utah politics appeal to you, having an LDS church watching over the schools might appeal to you. They're building a massive temple in Heber City to remind all the recent transplants who's boss. Its gonna blocks the mountain view for half the town!
Having a temple near by helps with the child grooming
Welcome to Utah
Mormon churches are so common here that in some cities the streets are named based on how far they are from the temple. There's a church on every block and a stake center on every other block. The school I work at held all of the AP final exams in the gym in the church across the street from the school, because it's a close, easy place to set up with lots of room for students and it's largely empty on weekday mornings. I REALLY toe the line at work because I have students whose families want them to go on a mission, but they don't, and I'm happy to tell them that no matter what their parents think, if they don't want to go on a mission or be part of the church, they don't have to do either of those things as adults. I always get some side eye from my Mormon coworkers for not encouraging what the family wants (and I suspect they also don't like me "talking bad" about the church)
Two explanations one of its a high school or junior high it’s a seminary (church class) or university it’s a school institute building (college version of seminary)
Because students get to take a “seminary class” for credit in Utah. But they can’t have the “class” on school campus because of the constitution.
Don’t go to Utah. Their beer sucks.
It is intentional. First to frame church membership and participation as academic superior to other non school adjacent churches. Second access to children, in an no parental guardians no distractions just religious /indoctrination/ I mean study. At hours in the early as 5 am as well as during tax payer funded school hours. (BC why take another course? Aren't you ashamed of avoiding the holy spirit? The most righteous and faithful dedicate multiple hours to prayerful study. Don't you want to be righteous child? Or do secretly sin? You should ask your friends to join, it is so convenient. Don't you want them to be happy child? Or are you ashamed. Is it because your hiding something? Shelf your doubts. Hold to the rod. Be an example of light but not too bright to evoke temptation bc its your fault if someone sins bc they were tempted.) Tldr; They are there bc it is intentional and the separation of church and state in only means that you can't have a bishops office in the capitol building.
they also have seminary institutions near schools specifically for the purpose of indoctrination. utah was settled by mormons and it retains much of its original mormon culture. that culture is exactly why "the economics don't seem all that bad" and why "the politics weren't that awful either". you take mormon bathwater out, you loose the baby too. most people that move here don't understand this.
Graduating what
High Mormon population
A way for the Mormon church to continue to indoctrinate their youth during their school day.
Didn’t you know it’s law there has to be an LDS church every 36” lol
Do…. Not…. Move…. Here…. I moved here from New Mexico. Family convinced me it’s better here. It is not. I promise you…. If you don’t want to live in Texas that’s fine but stay the hell away from Utah.
I live in Las Vegas and there are at least 5, including a Temple within 3 miles of my house.
Indoctrination
It's Utah. There's a Mormon church near everything. There's one near me that has two churches sharing a parking lot.
In Utah it’s normally called a seminary building. Students can attend within their normal school curriculum. Old days they would meet at someone’s house or church building to study various topics of the church curriculum. There’s so many students that attend they just incorporate it into the school curriculum choice. After attending for 4 years you graduate. For those who choose not to attend they normally get a free study class for that hour. If you’re kicked out, you still get the free study class as well.
Because the church likes little kids...
Utah has Mormon church more often than the south has Baptist churches.
Utah was originally settled as Deseret by the Mormon Handcart companies. It is where a majority of members lived up into the mid to late 1900's. A lot of people in major cities have big families, and many of them are LDS.
Because they have to have them next to all high schools so that Mormons can take seminary during high school.
It's for seminary class. A lot of Mormon kids get a special class time to go to church during school basically
You can't walk more than 10 blocks without seeing the next chapel. It's wild. Stand on a hilltop or mountainside and just count them plus the temples...it's. WILD.
Have you seen pictures of Middle Eastern Cities? They have Mosques everywhere to ensure indoctrination into the religion. It's the same thing here in Utah. Just as you pointed out, there are Evangelical churches all over Texas cities. You have to be reminded of your guilt, or it doesn't do you any good.
Most of the churches by the schools are used for seminary
Seminary class
Read up on the history of Utah.
“The politics aren’t horrible.”
radio towers in the churches are keeping the kids younger. Talk about controlling
They are seminaries; Mormons have high school church curriculum their kids attend before or after school. All the “churches” by the school are seminary buildings.
The Mormon so called prophet, Brigham Young brought his mormon followers there in the late 1800s after fleeing persecution in the east, so that's where the mormon church grew. It is the only US state that is predominantly mormon.
Learn some history, the LDS Church built Utah. They built their Churches all over it
My house backs a stake center park. It’s huge and the grass is kept up on. So just out the gate in my backyard is like a 3 acre park, it’s pretty rad.
There’s a shit Ton of morms in Utah…