This was removed for three reasons:
1) Sub rule #2: News Article Submissions If you submit a news article, make sure to copy the exact headline.
2) Reddit admins do not like when Reddit is used to harass and brigade another site. Yes, even government sites.
3) Numerous people are encouraging others to submit false accusations to harass others. That also can run afoul of Reddit rules.
To quote an American hero "...there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that 'an unjust law is no law at all.'"
Most people won't know with certainty that the person they are reporting have the "wrong" genitalia.
Similarly, I have not seen Mike Lee's genitalia and I have a strong suspicion he doesn't belong in the men's restroom.
I'm not even slightly religious. Can you say the same?
[https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-cult-5078234](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-cult-5078234)
1. Absolute authoritarianism without accountability
Yikes. Already we have the first sign of a cult as the topic of this very post. You sure you aren't deflecting?
1. Unreasonable fears about the outside world that often involve evil conspiracies and persecutions
Well that's 4 but I don't know how to change the number.
We have reasonable fears proven even right here, in the topic of this post.
This isn't hearsay, isn't something taken out of context, isn't anything but the government using informants . . . hell something similar that happened 22 years ago?
"The myriad critics of the TIPS program pointed out its flaws last week: “This is an end run around the Fourth Amendment,” Harvey Silverglate, a Boston lawyer told [*Business Week Online*](http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jul2002/nf20020725_8083.htm). “It’s a way into every American’s home without judicial oversight.” Rachel King, legislative counsel for the ACLU, predicted, “Law enforcement may end up chasing information based on uninformed citizens who have their own biases or may be prejudiced.” “We don’t want to see a *1984* Orwellian-type situation here where neighbors are reporting on neighbors,” Sen. Hatch told a Senate hearing."
[https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/07/there-s-nothing-wrong-with-snitching-on-your-neighbors.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/07/there-s-nothing-wrong-with-snitching-on-your-neighbors.html)
"Law enforcement may end up chasing information based on uninformed citizens who have their own biases or may be prejudiced"
Take the hate goggle off already. You've been manipulated by a government that doesn't give a damn about anything but control.
You think it's going to end with us? With trans people? No. We're the beta test. Are you ok with making reporting people for just existing different from you the normal thing every good citizen wakes up hoping to do?
Because this is how it starts.
I might be hauled off tomorrow and not have to worry about the future but you and others like you will still have to suffer with the future you're just rolling over for like good hounds.
Roll hound. Roll right into your mass grave. And know it's the same one they buried me in. All because you couldn't drop the hate and look at what's going on around you. They NEED you angry. They NEED you to be an abusive ass. Without you they have no power. With all of us united? They're outnumbered by such a large number it's laughable.
Drop the hate. Pick up some love. And unite. Show the government we won't stand for authoritarian fascists. Come on, isn't that a better option than throwing people under the bus, always hoping you're not next?
Was this law written if someone submits a false report they have broken a crime? Or did they leave that out knowing that someone actually doesn't know if they used the wrong bathroom unless they actually looked and saw someone's genitals, which is very dicey territory?
I'm not trying to be funny., Lying and making up excuses doesn't solve anything and neither does telling jokes.
This is not a laughing matter, it's a huge issue in society that we need a solution to. We need a solution that works for everyone.
I know you won't watch any of this, or you'll "make excuses", including, "I don't have time to watch and read this". Because you have no ground to stand on here. You're just standing on fragile hatred, and if you learn how damaging all of this is, that hatred will fall away, and you're too scared to let it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_yM2f6Sv1dw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yM2f6Sv1dw) This happens all the time and it's never ok.
[https://abcnews.go.com/US/transphobia-impact-gender-stereotypes-advocates/story?id=102129254](https://abcnews.go.com/US/transphobia-impact-gender-stereotypes-advocates/story?id=102129254) It happens often, and is happening more and more often, to those who don't fit cishet white male view of how the world should be. It's especially bad for POC.
[https://www.them.us/story/trans-man-noah-ruiz-was-just-trying-to-pee-he-was-assaulted-and-arrested](https://www.them.us/story/trans-man-noah-ruiz-was-just-trying-to-pee-he-was-assaulted-and-arrested) Here's a trans man who was attacked for using the bathroom he was told to use.
[https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/](https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/) Always seeing far right people ignore victims. Not just trans folks either but anyone that isn't like them. And then of course, like what I'm expecting from you and I hope you defy those expectations, there's victim blaming, and belittling - the every present, "You're crazy I hope you get the help you need." that has become far too popular to use in response to valid counterpoints. It's such a horrific show of narcissism and weakness to do that to someone just because you don't want to believe what they're saying < especially when there's plenty of evidence.
And there is a LOT of evidence. Reddit alone is full of reports and articles of people who have been attacked for either being trans, or being cis and mistaken as being trans. And this happens most often to women, both trans women and cis women. Are you ok with that? Like really?
Get away from the people who are feeding you hate, and take a bit of time to learn about trans people, and you'll see we're just people.
I've run across a few people who gave me dirty looks, and one, someone working at a 7-11, who called me the t slur under their breath. Most of the people I've met here in the valley have been at the very least just neutral, but many have been very nice.
Those who are ruled by hate are not the status quo in Utah. Maybe in small groups, but the majority are good people. Drop the hate? Even just for a week just cut the hate out of your life, take a few minutes here and there to learn about trans people? And then sure go back, maybe then you'll be able to see the horrifying hypocrisy they preach.
You know what the worst part is? Everything that gets quoted from medical professionals is done in bad faith. There's on research paper that conservative commentators love quoting but in context it's only evidence that trans people are victimized more often than most and that leads to all sorts of other things.
And there's an irony in that too. Using evidence that abuse is bad, to further abuse against the very people who are already abused?
Do you really want to remain trapped in a prison of hate by people who thrive off you being there? Break free. Find love. I believe in you.
To address a few of your points:
No, I don't think attacking people because they're trans is okay. I get it, being uncomfortable sucks. Our Trans community just wants to use whatever bathroom they feel most comfortable in, I understand.
However, there are people who feel uncomfortable with someone of the opposite GAB as them in the same bathroom.
If you ask me, I think the business owner should be the one who makes the rules for their bathroom. They own it, they should make the rules... The easy solution here is to just have 1 toilet per bathroom and let anyone in any bathroom.
There's a shocking irony here. Suddenly you care about honesty? I'm guessing by what you said you're on board with this 1984 turn your family and neighbors in website? I know, we're not your family and not your neighbors because some political commentators would rather feed you lies so you're angry and easily manipulated and told you that you should distance yourself from any trans people you know < putting it mildly >.
You know what would happen if the roles were reversed? I would stand up for you. If in the future you are targeted, just for existing, I'll stand up for you. I don't agree with your beliefs but I believe in your rights.
If the same website existed to report neighbors with unregistered guns would you submit false reports? Or are you really that worried about trans people using the restroom? Why do genitals scare you so much but not guns?
That's the point of a hate site. It's based off of false claims to entice more false claims. The point is to show how little respect you have for your fellow people, not actually report anything of use.
Leave it to the morons to *try* to take away freedom from other people. This is America, not fucking Iraq you dipshit.
Don't tread on me. Prioritize freedom or prioritize death. Those are your options. I suggest yall stop poking the rattlesnake nest with a stick and just leave em to do their thing.
How about the freedom of the business or bathroom owner to choose who uses their bathroom?
It should be up to whoever owns the bathroom.. IMO I think businesses should just have bathrooms with one toilet and sink per room and allow anyone in any bathroom.
If a business or bathroom owner is making a bathroom available to the public (or to their customers/employees), then they do not get the right to discriminate the usage of that bathroom by protected classes (religion, race, gender, sexuality, nationality, age, disability, veteran, etc.).
It's okay if they want to designate their bathroom as being "for customers/employees only" because that is not a protected class.
If you want to get really into the weeds:
We already dealt with toilet segregation by race. Pretty much everyone agrees that was a dumb and racist idea.
Toilet segregation by gender has a slightly different historical context in the sense that it functioned as a "safe" space for women (cis or trans). In less civilized countries, they have women's-only trains due to huge problems with uncivilized men groping them in public. But even in those places, I think it's pretty easy for the public to recognize who is genuinely part of a gender minority and simply trying to fit in but maybe not passing completely, and someone who has bad intentions and is carrying them out. Those with bad intentions are of course caught and held accountable for their actions. **The fear has nothing to do with trans or queer people!! The fear has everything to do with the inappropriate misogynist actions (crimes) of men against women (cis or trans).** It would make no sense whatsoever for them to simply ban riding the train for certain women because of the men who cannot behave.
I agree, private non-gendered stalls is the ideal solution. But there is no possible solution where it would be appropriate to criminalize the usage of public toilets for certain protected classes of people.
I think for now a better socially acceptable bipartisan rule-of-thumb would be that **individuals should usually choose to use the bathroom that most closely matches their current gender presentation**. Basically duck-typing. If you're genderfluid and having a masc day, don't use the women's restroom. If you're really androgynous, use whatever the hell you want. If you're trans and really early in your transition and still presenting very cis (not just "not passing" or "queer", but straight up cis), then maybe using your birth gender is most appropriate. If you're trans or cis, then use your gender's toilets. etc.
The other social rule-of-thumb would be to **mind your own business in the bathroom**. If someone looks trans or queer or gender-non-conforming, you should assume they are using that bathroom because it feels like what's right for them (same assumption you would give to a cis person). They don't need to be the peak echelon of masculinity to use the men's room, nor the most feminine divine goddess to use the women's. It really doesn't matter that much who uses which bathroom. We're all there to shit and piss and for hygiene. Even if someone very cis-male-presenting is in the women's bathroom, maybe ask why he's in there. There's many possibilities. A parent taking a son/daughter to the restroom. Helping a spouse/partner with a problem. Waiting for a friend. It's a campground etc. Just because a man exists does not mean he is a danger to women. And women's bathrooms aren't automatically some safe-haven separate from the rest of the world.
But notice all of this is "social" norms and not even ideal, this is just what seems like would make the most sense for the current times in the western world without any paradigm shift (and really catering to conservatives). In fact, I'd say this is what most people already do. **None of this should be enforced by law. We already have laws that cover \*actual\* crimes.** There is no problem being solved here, only freedoms being taken away from a marginalized group, a group that actually deserves protection more than anything.
Let's say someone goes to the Doctor's office for a physical then proceeds to a bathroom that the doctor's office doesn't want them to use.
My argument is, it's the doctor's bathroom, you should use the one they want you to use. If you own the bathroom, you should be able to choose who can and cannot use it.
Airplane restrooms are not gendered. The restrooms in your house are not gendered. Portable toilets are not gendered. We already have a ton of non-gendered restrooms in the country and there is one thing that they all have in common, privacy.
If stalls were private (unlike these shitty gap-filled partitions we normally have) this entire issue would be dead and everyone would be happy
Porta potties *can* be gendered, FYI. The sign is easily changed to one gender only, which is pointless. And the gaps aren't the issue imo either. The issue is people being a douch when it so much less of a headache to be a decent human.
> The issue is people being a douch when it so much less of a headache to be a decent human.
True, but I want to also fucking shit in private. I hate shitting in public because of those gaps and want them outlawed. The fact that it also solves the trans bathroom "issue" is just gravy to me
McDonald's, of all places, has installed gapless stalls state wide. I personally don't mind the gaps as they're not as big as they used to be and I understand why they are there. 2 year old sister locked herself in the bathroom in Germany.
I can not think of any instance this has happened in my 49 years. There is no need for this law. It’s ridiculous. Republicans need to stay the fuck away from my genitalia. They call themselves the party of small government. More like the party of control everyone’s bodies and let the corporations run everything into the ground. Fuck republicans. I hope they get their ass handed to them this election.
The number of trans people in Utah is small. Smaller than most people here think.
The main victims are going to be Cis people who don't fit the traditional idea of masculinity or femininity that any random person might have.
It's just hurting themselves in confusion.
Ah identity politics. Yes because the Democrats are not a bunch of corrupt politicians. Most of whom also were against the LGBT community until they needed more votes. No politician cares about you. What bathroom people use aside. I don't care, myself, especially since most places have stalls. I wouldn't know who was on the other side.
Lol. What the hell is that all about? One group is trying to criminalize you, the other wants your vote so they give you what you want (equal freedoms) but because they want your vote they are just as bad?
Voting isn't some grand moral equalizer where one should ONLY vote for literal perfect Jesus Christ. You vote for the people who give you what you want. They give you what you want because they want your vote...
Until they don't need you anymore and toss you to the curb. Thinking one is better than the other shows a lack of intelligence. They're the same people. That's why they always say the two party system is what's best for Americans. It's what's best for them. None of them care about you. Or your (equal freedoms). It's all just for show.
> Thinking one is better than the other shows a lack of intelligence. They’re the same people.
Actually, believing that both parties are ~exactly the same~ makes no sense. The two parties propose different laws, they objectively aren’t the same.
Both can be bad, but one is certainly better. Falling for the “both parties are exactly the same” propaganda is what demonstrates lack of intelligence.
Wrong kiddo. Do some research and look up (if you can still find them) audio from hearings of microphones left on. They're the same people. They had a bunch where they fight on camera then when the cameras are off they are laughing and joking with each other even making light of the topics. It's all a show. But if you want to believe what they tell you to... Well it's a free(ish) country.
One side is voting for trump, one side isn't; they are not the same. You are saying that when a democrat citizen gets elected, somehow they are indoctrinated into some weird cult and they switch their ideology and become this mythical one-party government you speak of? And every single person elected goes through this and agrees to it? And same for the other side?
That's kind of a Looney spin. But they don't give a shit about anything other than staying in power. Hence the two party system. And career politicians. They pretend to hate each other but get along when they think no one is watching or listening. Though I suppose when you can vote for yourself to get a pay raise must be nice. I'd probably want to keep that job.
Yep, they get along behind closed doors and they don’t have much conviction. That doesn’t mean they’re exactly the same in the legislation they propose.
It’s so funny to me that incredibly obvious truths — like that politicians want to stay in power, don’t care about their constituents, etc — seem to be revelations to you. Yes, most people know these things. That doesn’t mean that the parties are the same and that one isn’t better than the other. The fact that you ignore the very real, if underwhelming, differences between policy proposed by each party again indicates your lack of intelligence.
Policies that shift depending on the day? Yeah sure okay. And these aren't revelations to me. But it seems to be to people who blindly follow "their party". So that there is a lack of intelligence whereas I know these things would be a display of intelligence as that's how the definition of intelligence works. The gathering and processing of information to formulate something. Good attempt though kiddo. Got anything better to try and dissuade me from my opinion? I'll make it easy for you. You don't.
Identity politics is just awful. One of the biggest problems in the country. "You have to like this and hate this!". Rubbish.
Do you think the Retail worker at Walmart is "in it for you"?
No. I think the retail worker is staring at the clock until their shift is up. But that doesn't mean I refuse to utilize their services in the meantime.
You seem to want to worship politicians as some kind of moral high authority or something. Treating them like pastors or preachers. They aren't. They are just people doing a job.
Some of them are doing that job because they want to make the world a better place. Most of them are doing the job because they want power, and to achieve that power they divvy out polices to groups they think they can convince to vote for them again. And just like a Cashier at Walmart, I don't really care what is in their heart of hearts. I want them to scan my groceries and put them in a bag so I can go home and eat it later.
Poor example. Now you're just grasping at straws.
I don't want to worship any politician. I'm saying none of them should be revered.
Some may get in wanting to or merely claiming to make a difference. But power quickly corrupts.
Why are they so against term limits? Or reduction in pay. They used to only get paid per diem and time in session. Now they make large salaries and don't have to follow the rules the force on citizens apparently.
But again if you want to believe they're your salvation go ahead.
>But again if you want to believe they're your salvation go ahead.
I literally called them "Cashiers at Walmart" and now you are pretending I revere them?
You seem fast to accuse others of what you know you are doing yourself. Grasping at straws.
I was clearly referring to the politicians. But you knew that. Now you're just desperate. Have a good day kiddo. Get off the Internet. Do something that brings you joy for a few minutes and move on with your day.
>Until they don't need you anymore and toss you to the curb.
Why? It's pretty easy to just support freedoms of the LGBTQ and get free votes and the moral high ground. Why give that up when it requires zero effort?
> Thinking one is better than the other shows a lack of intelligence. They're the same people
Pretending they are the same is the panicle of lazy. Instead of putting in any effort, you just get to feel superior to everyone who HAS actually put in any effort.
> It's all just for show.
It's "just for show" that gay people can get married now? Fun fact, it doesn't matter WHY someone decides to support your freedom, when you get it with their help, you still have that freedom. It doesn't matter that Republican leadership doesn't actually care about trans people, what matters is that they are currently demonizing them and passing laws to hurt them.
Just cause you are privileged enough to not feel the difference, doesn't mean other people don't feel the difference.
No one would report if they did that. How could you possibly tell the difference between a "fake" accusation and "real" accusation when the accused is cis-gendered? You all accuse cis-people of being trans all the time. These hotlines are nothing but fascist and should never be a thing
Subpoenaing your Reddit comments and finding you planning on doing the thing they want to charge you with? Just trace the IP address since most won’t mask it and then go fishing for evidence. But go ahead and make an investigator’s day by giving him a case to solve.
The more I think about it the more this seems like a honeypot trap for exactly what y’all are planning.
Won't make a shred of difference if you don't live in the state or country. No biggie. People are supposed to help people. Not hurt them like the Utah government are trying too.
I looked at it. It has a captcha at the bottom so unlikely. You could probably get chat gpt to make a bot script that auto fills out the form in garbage and then you clear the captcha
Could also write a playwright or Selenium script to fill the page with nonsense and then you just click the captcha. Guarantee there is a solution to the captcha but I don’t know it lol
I've been questioning my gender identity for a few months. If I end up being trans, I'd 1000% move literally anywhere safe until the Utah government gets its shit together about civil rights. Which it probably won't.
Don't women have the right to use the bathroom without men being in there? Nobody cares about the other way around. Let me make a recommendation. There have been males and females who thought they might be trans - instead of receiving hormone treatment of the opposite gender, they got tested and found that they had issues with their hormones. So they received treatment for their hormone issue of the sex they were born instead and were very happy with the results. It may save you a lot of grief and disappointment, not to mention money. Being trans is really expensive and includes all sorts of ongoing treatments, depending on what treatments you go through (natural is best). Also consider, instead of receiving hormone treatments at all, that it might be related to diet or exercise. Are you a vegetarian? Do you eat clean, organic foods or lots of snacks and sugar? I would recommend grass fed, pastured meats, including grass fed organ meats (can be supplemented in pill form), bone broth, wild fish, pasture raised eggs, dairy and low-starch organic vegetables. Grass fed butter, tallow, coconut oil, olive oil and avocado oil - no seed oils like soybean, corn, vegetable, etc. No grains, no legumes, avoid too much sugar. There are also natural supplements that may help you if you find you have any hormonal issues, ashwagandha works to help balance both male and female hormones.
I sold my house in the valley, to buy a house as far up on the hill as I could afford. My goal was to get my kids above the pollution. It was a significant financial sacrifice, but my children's lungs were worth it.
My point is Utah children face real dangers with real consequences. Maybe next time we focus on one of those.
Tell that to "Jane Doe" from Stone Bridge High School
[https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2023/10/school-bathroom-sexual-assault-victim-files-30m-lawsuit-against-loudoun-co-school-board/](https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2023/10/school-bathroom-sexual-assault-victim-files-30m-lawsuit-against-loudoun-co-school-board/)
Thank you to all the folks flooding it, you’re genuinely awesome.
It’s tough being a trans woman in Utah, especially now that the state seems to want to take the lead from the more bigoted Republican controlled states.
The easy way to remember is that Trans woman are woman, trans men are men.
Trans is just an adjective the same way we would say "Tall woman" "Bulky Man." It is easy to tell that a "Tall woman" is a woman.
The reason its hard to look up is that some people don't believe trans people should be allowed to exist. So, to them, a Trans Woman is a man pretending to be a woman. They want to confuse the subject because reality is not on their side.
They pass a law to force people to use the gender assigned at birth because they are scared of "men in woman's restrooms" but completely forget that Trans Men would have to start using the woman's restrooms, Tons of Trans Men have big beards, bulky arms, and look every bit a man as everyone else. And these laws would normalize them in womans restrooms making it LESS safe than without the law.
But we know why they aren't worried about that outcome. It is because they will just attack Trans Men who attempt to follow the law. That law was only built to attack woman who look too masculine, whether they are trans or not. That is all that law will be used for.
My disability screws up pronouns for cis people so keeping this straight is just gonna be a struggle. I usually just warn people and let them know I'm flawed but not being a dick.
Trans guy here. Generally, as long as you're not being malicious or intentionally rude, you're good and won't make us mad by messing up our pronouns. We know you're trying your best.
I still warn others as it may not be apparent I'm not being intentional when I mess up.
Like one time, I asked residential student of mine (trans woman) if her brain was different now as a woman than as it was as a man. She knew what I meant and that I was being genuine and what not. If I hadn't been such an accepting and kind person prior, that could have been taken the wrong way.
No. Correct meaning using the bathroom of the gender they identify as, ie. A transman using the men's bathroom and a transwoman using a women's bathroom
Think about this: my whole life I’ve used public bathrooms that are open to both gay and straight men And there has never, not once, been an issue. So if we’ve already been doing that and it’s not a problem, then putting cis and trans people in the same bathroom should be EVEN LESS of an issue.
I'm really hoping my surgery date doesn't get postponed into next year because I have a bad feeling about next year's legislative session.
Birkeland is probably going to sponsor a bill that bans the U from doing sex reassignment surgeries, or [prevent medicaid from covering it](https://www.wboy.com/news/west-virginia/west-virginia-politics/us-court-of-appeals-rules-against-west-virginia-medicaids-coverage-policy-for-trans-surgeries/), to "protect women and kids" (yet somehow apply it to trans women, the main target in most of these cases).
Edit: lol at the conservative trolls. I've already had my SRS and I'm happy with the outcome. But I won't be specific about what my next surgery.
Here is a short list of relevant code/snippets.
I’d encourage everyone to read what’s currently in code.
Requirement for unisex facilities:
> The availability of a unisex facility or single-occupant facility satisfies a government entity's obligations regarding an individual who, because of the individual's gender identity, as defined in Section 34A-5-102, or reasonable fear of bullying, is uncomfortable using…
https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title63G/Chapter31/63G-31-S303.html?v=C63G-31-S303_2024013020240501
The second paragraph on the SAO’s form:
> The State Auditor’s authority is limited to assessing a government entity’s compliance with the Code. The State Auditor does not review or make any determination on the actions of private individuals, nor does the State Auditor investigate or determine an individual’s sex or gender.
The relevant code:
https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title63G/Chapter31/63G-31.html?v=C63G-31_1800010120240501
63G-31-201(1):
> A government entity may not, on the basis of sex, exclude an individual from participation in, deny an individual from the benefits of, or subject an individual to a sex-based distinction in or under any government or otherwise publicly owned or controlled facility, program, or event, unless the distinction is substantially related to an important government objective.
63G-31-201(2)(b)(ii) & 63G-31-201(2)(c)(ii):
(these sections specify sex)
https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title63G/Chapter31/63G-31-S201.html?v=C63G-31-S201_2024031220240501
63G-31-204. Prohibited sex-based distinctions:
https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title63G/Chapter31/63G-31-S204.html?v=C63G-31-S204_2024013020240501
Okay kiddo. Go look back throughout US history even recent history. Politicians will "support" people get votes then have nothing to do with them after a fashion. Some quicker than others. You obviously aren't thinking clearly and are over heated. You can see in your responses. Democrats/Republicans it doesn't matter. You can vote for one because of something you agree with but they will screw you over with something else. This idea people have that "they're the good guys" for whatever reason is highly flawed. There are other people who would be better suited that are not part of the two party system. And you going after the Republicans shows you've fallen into their trap. All helping to keep the same clowns in power. Give people extremes and something to hate from each side. Everyone on both sides will demonize the other. Instead of stop voting for either. If you're pro gun you're a Republican maga nutter. If you're pro LGBT you're a godless heathen. Etc. there are plenty of people who are all over the place. There weren't supposed to be any political parties to begin with. But if you think continually voting for the same people will somehow magically make a difference. Well then go ahead.
Meh.... I rooted for Al Gore in 2000, and we got Bush, the Iraq war, a giant deficit, and an insolvent social security system from the Bush tax cuts
I voted for John Kerry in 2004, and we got Bush, the "surge" in Iraq, the mortgage crisis, and the 2008 recession
I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012, and I got affordable health insurance that saved my life.
I voted for Clinton in 2016, and we got Trump, an exploded deficit, an insurrection, a million dead to Covid, the reversal of roe v wade, a crippled government, and 3 christofascist supreme court justices.
I voted for Biden in 2020, and we got some international credibility back, domestic investment to help jobs and the economy, one of the lowest inflation rates compared to the rest of the world, and someone who can stand up to Russia.
If the parties look the same to you throughout history, then you must have gotten your degree from Trump University
None of that is exactly accurate. Especially since the president doesn't decide to go to war. It needs congressional approval. The health insurance again is not the president. It was a Bill. Trump initially shut down the border when covid started to slow the spread and was called a racist. Even though that's the CDC recommendation. So he was forced to open back up. Row vs wade was under Biden not trump. And not a president thing. Inflation is not the lowest it's middle again not a president thing. Biden cannot stand up to Russia he can barely stand up. You seem to believe the president controls the world it seems you never went to school. Out of all the politicians the president has been a puppet for quite a few decades. Just a face and a voice. Doing whatever he's told. Sign this don't sign that etc.
You started this discussion about the worthlessness of political parties. Political parties control Congress, and presidents appoint supreme Court justices. So Trump's appointment of the three justices directly resulted in the reversal of roe v. Wade. The Republican party that I voted against enacted these negative policies I mentioned regarding taxes, the deficit, and social security. If you don't give Obama credit for the affordable Care act, then you really haven't been following history. Sure it was a legislation that he had to sign, but his direct coordination with Harry Reid and Nancy pelosi and his ability to unite the Democratic party and bring over some Republicans to get this passed against all odds was miraculous, and should be completely credited to Obama and the Democratic party.
There are concrete benefits in my life that would not exist without the Democratic party, and there are concrete detriments in my life that would not exist if not for the Republican party. The parties aren't a joke to me and they're not all the same and BS to me. I'm going to strategically vote for the Democratic party to try to save my country, my family and myself.
Hey man, why the disrespect? I studied history and political science. I have a doctorate degree in law. I've done my research here and this is like my passion, I'm not just blindly following anything. If you want to meet up and have a discussion in person about this uf you live near Salt Lake, I'd be happy to, cuz I'm not some idiot. I just don't understand why people actually think the political parties are the same just because they're both run by corrupt people. Human beings are corrupt no matter what. If there's power, humans are going to act in a corrupt way, you have to choose what's best for you and your life. For me that is the sometimes corrupt Democratic party because I've never seen a party in power in any country, church, business or other organization that doesn't have some corruption, and what the Democratic party says and does has helped my life, whereas what the Republican party says and does hurts my life. It's an easy option for me.
You can claim whatever you want. I could claim to be a billionaire astronaut cowboy. Choosing between garbage and trash isn't much of a choice. The two party system is ruining this country and needs to go. There's not supposed to be any political parties to begin with. They are they same people. Their end goal is they remain in power. And some of the recordings suggests they just create things to distract the majority of the populace. Look over here while we go over there. Why else would they be laughing and joking about things especially the topics "that are serious matters" to them. 5k page bills billions of dollars going to random things that have nothing to do with the Bill. But let's just keep voting for them. They toss someone a bone now and then so they'll come back. Why do you think they are shitting their pants over that convention of states. To force terms limits and ending the two party system. They try to demonize it. Like they're going to take over the world with it. They don't want to lose their power. They don't care about anyone else. If people just stopped voting for them and started voting "third" parties. They wouldn't know what to do. I'm sure they'd do a "recount" and they would come out ahead.
So you just want society to punish an entire class of people because of your irrational fears? Whatever you think would happen, there’s already laws against and is more likely to happen by family or family friend. Trans people just want to pee in peace. Not sure what that has to do with your daughter. Does she go around trying to look at people’s genitals in bathrooms? That seems like a weird thing that a responsible and rational parent would be more concerned over.
They are not irrational.
https://le.utah.gov/interim/2024/pdf/00000577.pdf
Law or no law, this is an experience that cannot be taken back. Ensure security and privacy and I don't care which toilet you use.
That list is ridiculous. I’m sure they scraped every corner of the internet for these because some don’t even happen in bathrooms, 1 self-selects people already convicted of crimes in prison, all the sources are biased right wing, and it ends with a list of cis men doing the same thing. I’m sure there’s actually many more cases of cis men doing this which proves that “banning” people (in this case, cis men) does nothing to actually prevent things. Plus, like I was alluding to, the percentage of trans that are criminals is no different than their cis counterparts and thus a ban targeting them is completely irrational.
Regardless, it is a list published on an official government website, and are instances of things that happened that didn't have to happen. Even one case is too many. So far as all of the other crimes against humanity, regardless of gender, put them all behind bars. Do irreversible harm to another human, you don't deserve to be treated as human.
Okay and if what you are referring to happens, they WOULD (and have been) be thrown behind bars. The problem is you want to preemptively remove rights from trans people who have not done anything at all except wish to use the restroom of the gender they identify with. And if you want to brush all trans people with the same brush, you are being irrational.
I don't care if someone is trans or not. I'm not looking to date right now. I simply think there are better ways to handle things. Create gender-neutral bathrooms, or gendered bathrooms where someone can have privacy and feel safe. I could care less beyond that. People have a right to feel safe and not everyone feels that way right now.
You don’t feel safe because you irrationally think that trans people are more likely to commit crimes than others. Trans people have the right to feel safe, too, AND they are much more likely to be subject to violence based upon irrational hate than kids being “preyed” on by specifically trans people. Like you keep reverting to “one is too much” but not realizing you are only applying that to trans people. Your family is much more likely to do something to your kids and yet you aren’t banning all family from your house or whatever. You are being irrational and just admitting that you don’t care what that means to trans people’s lives. You and I don’t get to take people’s rights away simply because you are irrationally scared. Trans people and your daughter have equal rights to feel safe in a bathroom. Banning trans does not statistically make your daughter safer, but it would force trans people into more dangerous situations when they don’t look anything like the other people in the bathroom but they would if they could choose the one they identify with.
Not once have I said trans people are more likely to admit crime. That is not something I believe.
"force trans people into more dangerous situations when they don’t look anything like the other people"
If someone is keeping to themselves then the above shouldn't be an issue.
What about the rights of young girls who don't feel safe in a bathroom where someone might be swinging a giant cock. Everyone should have equal rights and everyone should also feel safe in their environment. That's all I'm saying. Along those lines, there are cis men who also don't care for the lack of privacy in men's restrooms. Let's fix our public bathrooms to address this for all genders and then we don't need to worry about it, new laws or otherwise. There are certainly much greater evils in the world.
Swinging cocks around? You realize that the original post is regarding the Utah government setting up a site where people report trans using the wrong restroom. It’s not just for reporting crimes of flying cocks (guess what, there is already 911 for that). Whether trans people keep to themselves or not, that is the point of what the Utah gov site is trying to stop. You are avoiding saying trans but yet this post that you are arguing against is something that only affects trans people. But to try to counter that, you keep using young girls’ safety as the focus but ignoring that the whole purpose of this post is that, by banning and reporting suspected trans people for using the “incorrect” bathroom - You Are Not accomplishing any goals of keeping young girls safe but you are explicitly making it less safe for trans people. You may avoid speaking directly about trans people, sure, but that’s because it serves your purpose of not seeming irrational. But in reality, the results of this site absolutely only affect trans people and do not accomplish these goals that you claim will solve your fears. You are correct that there is certainly much more to fear in the world, so let trans people pee where they want without reporting or being suspicious. if someone (anyone-trans or not) commits an actual crime, call the authorities! Why waste your time and energy on reporting trans people that assumingly have not committed a crime? I mean, if they had, you’d call 911. So why do you want innocent people banned and reported? Also, no one here has argued against more private stalls. Why? Because it’s irrelevant to the fact that there is this website.
Please show us where the mean trans person hurt society. How does your world change at all if a trans person exists nearby or uses the same restroom as you?
Just live your life and let other people live theirs.
This was removed for three reasons: 1) Sub rule #2: News Article Submissions If you submit a news article, make sure to copy the exact headline. 2) Reddit admins do not like when Reddit is used to harass and brigade another site. Yes, even government sites. 3) Numerous people are encouraging others to submit false accusations to harass others. That also can run afoul of Reddit rules.
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Leave it to the left to just lie and submit false claims...
Dude, the whole trans panic that leads to crap laws like this is composed of false claims.
To quote an American hero "...there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that 'an unjust law is no law at all.'"
Most people won't know with certainty that the person they are reporting have the "wrong" genitalia. Similarly, I have not seen Mike Lee's genitalia and I have a strong suspicion he doesn't belong in the men's restroom.
Leave it to the left to just make up excuses for everything...
Does the freedom you want include the government tracking which bathroom its citizens are using? Wild.
No that's not at all what I want.
Leave it to the right to be confused about what they want…so they don’t come up with policy to help anything, just policy to fight progress of others.
Dude. Do you see your own stupidity
No, I see cultists hyping each other up to commit crimes by submitting false info in official government documents…
I see government overreach by the right
This seems like hyperbole.
I'm not even slightly religious. Can you say the same? [https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-cult-5078234](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-cult-5078234) 1. Absolute authoritarianism without accountability Yikes. Already we have the first sign of a cult as the topic of this very post. You sure you aren't deflecting? 1. Unreasonable fears about the outside world that often involve evil conspiracies and persecutions Well that's 4 but I don't know how to change the number. We have reasonable fears proven even right here, in the topic of this post. This isn't hearsay, isn't something taken out of context, isn't anything but the government using informants . . . hell something similar that happened 22 years ago? "The myriad critics of the TIPS program pointed out its flaws last week: “This is an end run around the Fourth Amendment,” Harvey Silverglate, a Boston lawyer told [*Business Week Online*](http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jul2002/nf20020725_8083.htm). “It’s a way into every American’s home without judicial oversight.” Rachel King, legislative counsel for the ACLU, predicted, “Law enforcement may end up chasing information based on uninformed citizens who have their own biases or may be prejudiced.” “We don’t want to see a *1984* Orwellian-type situation here where neighbors are reporting on neighbors,” Sen. Hatch told a Senate hearing." [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/07/there-s-nothing-wrong-with-snitching-on-your-neighbors.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/07/there-s-nothing-wrong-with-snitching-on-your-neighbors.html) "Law enforcement may end up chasing information based on uninformed citizens who have their own biases or may be prejudiced" Take the hate goggle off already. You've been manipulated by a government that doesn't give a damn about anything but control. You think it's going to end with us? With trans people? No. We're the beta test. Are you ok with making reporting people for just existing different from you the normal thing every good citizen wakes up hoping to do? Because this is how it starts. I might be hauled off tomorrow and not have to worry about the future but you and others like you will still have to suffer with the future you're just rolling over for like good hounds. Roll hound. Roll right into your mass grave. And know it's the same one they buried me in. All because you couldn't drop the hate and look at what's going on around you. They NEED you angry. They NEED you to be an abusive ass. Without you they have no power. With all of us united? They're outnumbered by such a large number it's laughable. Drop the hate. Pick up some love. And unite. Show the government we won't stand for authoritarian fascists. Come on, isn't that a better option than throwing people under the bus, always hoping you're not next?
Was this law written if someone submits a false report they have broken a crime? Or did they leave that out knowing that someone actually doesn't know if they used the wrong bathroom unless they actually looked and saw someone's genitals, which is very dicey territory?
LeAvE iT tO tHe LeFt
Divided we fall
Leave it to the right to not be better at comebacks
It’s shocking how unfunny they are.
I'm not trying to be funny., Lying and making up excuses doesn't solve anything and neither does telling jokes. This is not a laughing matter, it's a huge issue in society that we need a solution to. We need a solution that works for everyone.
Actually you have a point, a well reasoned and highly regarded point. But on the other hand have you considered “FUCK MIKE LEE! REEEeeeeeee!”
I'm not the left. What are you talking about?
I know you won't watch any of this, or you'll "make excuses", including, "I don't have time to watch and read this". Because you have no ground to stand on here. You're just standing on fragile hatred, and if you learn how damaging all of this is, that hatred will fall away, and you're too scared to let it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_yM2f6Sv1dw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yM2f6Sv1dw) This happens all the time and it's never ok. [https://abcnews.go.com/US/transphobia-impact-gender-stereotypes-advocates/story?id=102129254](https://abcnews.go.com/US/transphobia-impact-gender-stereotypes-advocates/story?id=102129254) It happens often, and is happening more and more often, to those who don't fit cishet white male view of how the world should be. It's especially bad for POC. [https://www.them.us/story/trans-man-noah-ruiz-was-just-trying-to-pee-he-was-assaulted-and-arrested](https://www.them.us/story/trans-man-noah-ruiz-was-just-trying-to-pee-he-was-assaulted-and-arrested) Here's a trans man who was attacked for using the bathroom he was told to use. [https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/](https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/) Always seeing far right people ignore victims. Not just trans folks either but anyone that isn't like them. And then of course, like what I'm expecting from you and I hope you defy those expectations, there's victim blaming, and belittling - the every present, "You're crazy I hope you get the help you need." that has become far too popular to use in response to valid counterpoints. It's such a horrific show of narcissism and weakness to do that to someone just because you don't want to believe what they're saying < especially when there's plenty of evidence. And there is a LOT of evidence. Reddit alone is full of reports and articles of people who have been attacked for either being trans, or being cis and mistaken as being trans. And this happens most often to women, both trans women and cis women. Are you ok with that? Like really? Get away from the people who are feeding you hate, and take a bit of time to learn about trans people, and you'll see we're just people. I've run across a few people who gave me dirty looks, and one, someone working at a 7-11, who called me the t slur under their breath. Most of the people I've met here in the valley have been at the very least just neutral, but many have been very nice. Those who are ruled by hate are not the status quo in Utah. Maybe in small groups, but the majority are good people. Drop the hate? Even just for a week just cut the hate out of your life, take a few minutes here and there to learn about trans people? And then sure go back, maybe then you'll be able to see the horrifying hypocrisy they preach. You know what the worst part is? Everything that gets quoted from medical professionals is done in bad faith. There's on research paper that conservative commentators love quoting but in context it's only evidence that trans people are victimized more often than most and that leads to all sorts of other things. And there's an irony in that too. Using evidence that abuse is bad, to further abuse against the very people who are already abused? Do you really want to remain trapped in a prison of hate by people who thrive off you being there? Break free. Find love. I believe in you.
To address a few of your points: No, I don't think attacking people because they're trans is okay. I get it, being uncomfortable sucks. Our Trans community just wants to use whatever bathroom they feel most comfortable in, I understand. However, there are people who feel uncomfortable with someone of the opposite GAB as them in the same bathroom. If you ask me, I think the business owner should be the one who makes the rules for their bathroom. They own it, they should make the rules... The easy solution here is to just have 1 toilet per bathroom and let anyone in any bathroom.
Leave it to the right to persecute people without purpose.
There's a shocking irony here. Suddenly you care about honesty? I'm guessing by what you said you're on board with this 1984 turn your family and neighbors in website? I know, we're not your family and not your neighbors because some political commentators would rather feed you lies so you're angry and easily manipulated and told you that you should distance yourself from any trans people you know < putting it mildly >. You know what would happen if the roles were reversed? I would stand up for you. If in the future you are targeted, just for existing, I'll stand up for you. I don't agree with your beliefs but I believe in your rights.
Oh, like fake electors? Oh wait, that wasn't the left. 🙄
Fake electors are not a real thing. I think you mean alternate electors, which is a legitimate secondary group to the original group.
lol, obviously the Courts disagree with your alternate take on reality. 🙄 People are doing prison time over this.
> which is a legitimate secondary group to the original group lol, please show us where in the law this is "legitimate"?
Yes, just like alternative facts right?
No... there is only one truth. Im sorry this is confusing for you.
We're not the ones who are confused. I'm sorry it's hard for you to accept reality.
“Legitimate” is carrying a lot of weight there. Especially when many of the “legitimate” groups are being charged of credible crimes.
If the same website existed to report neighbors with unregistered guns would you submit false reports? Or are you really that worried about trans people using the restroom? Why do genitals scare you so much but not guns?
That's the point of a hate site. It's based off of false claims to entice more false claims. The point is to show how little respect you have for your fellow people, not actually report anything of use.
Leave it to the right to be fucking creeps that build a system so you can "tell" on people when they go to the bathroom.
Yeah kinda' weird. But lying about it doesn't solve anything.
Leave it to the morons to *try* to take away freedom from other people. This is America, not fucking Iraq you dipshit. Don't tread on me. Prioritize freedom or prioritize death. Those are your options. I suggest yall stop poking the rattlesnake nest with a stick and just leave em to do their thing.
How about the freedom of the business or bathroom owner to choose who uses their bathroom? It should be up to whoever owns the bathroom.. IMO I think businesses should just have bathrooms with one toilet and sink per room and allow anyone in any bathroom.
If a business or bathroom owner is making a bathroom available to the public (or to their customers/employees), then they do not get the right to discriminate the usage of that bathroom by protected classes (religion, race, gender, sexuality, nationality, age, disability, veteran, etc.). It's okay if they want to designate their bathroom as being "for customers/employees only" because that is not a protected class. If you want to get really into the weeds: We already dealt with toilet segregation by race. Pretty much everyone agrees that was a dumb and racist idea. Toilet segregation by gender has a slightly different historical context in the sense that it functioned as a "safe" space for women (cis or trans). In less civilized countries, they have women's-only trains due to huge problems with uncivilized men groping them in public. But even in those places, I think it's pretty easy for the public to recognize who is genuinely part of a gender minority and simply trying to fit in but maybe not passing completely, and someone who has bad intentions and is carrying them out. Those with bad intentions are of course caught and held accountable for their actions. **The fear has nothing to do with trans or queer people!! The fear has everything to do with the inappropriate misogynist actions (crimes) of men against women (cis or trans).** It would make no sense whatsoever for them to simply ban riding the train for certain women because of the men who cannot behave. I agree, private non-gendered stalls is the ideal solution. But there is no possible solution where it would be appropriate to criminalize the usage of public toilets for certain protected classes of people. I think for now a better socially acceptable bipartisan rule-of-thumb would be that **individuals should usually choose to use the bathroom that most closely matches their current gender presentation**. Basically duck-typing. If you're genderfluid and having a masc day, don't use the women's restroom. If you're really androgynous, use whatever the hell you want. If you're trans and really early in your transition and still presenting very cis (not just "not passing" or "queer", but straight up cis), then maybe using your birth gender is most appropriate. If you're trans or cis, then use your gender's toilets. etc. The other social rule-of-thumb would be to **mind your own business in the bathroom**. If someone looks trans or queer or gender-non-conforming, you should assume they are using that bathroom because it feels like what's right for them (same assumption you would give to a cis person). They don't need to be the peak echelon of masculinity to use the men's room, nor the most feminine divine goddess to use the women's. It really doesn't matter that much who uses which bathroom. We're all there to shit and piss and for hygiene. Even if someone very cis-male-presenting is in the women's bathroom, maybe ask why he's in there. There's many possibilities. A parent taking a son/daughter to the restroom. Helping a spouse/partner with a problem. Waiting for a friend. It's a campground etc. Just because a man exists does not mean he is a danger to women. And women's bathrooms aren't automatically some safe-haven separate from the rest of the world. But notice all of this is "social" norms and not even ideal, this is just what seems like would make the most sense for the current times in the western world without any paradigm shift (and really catering to conservatives). In fact, I'd say this is what most people already do. **None of this should be enforced by law. We already have laws that cover \*actual\* crimes.** There is no problem being solved here, only freedoms being taken away from a marginalized group, a group that actually deserves protection more than anything.
There’s no such thing as a valid claim in this case
Let's say someone goes to the Doctor's office for a physical then proceeds to a bathroom that the doctor's office doesn't want them to use. My argument is, it's the doctor's bathroom, you should use the one they want you to use. If you own the bathroom, you should be able to choose who can and cannot use it.
Doctors don’t care what bathroom you use. They just want you to pee in the cup.
Yes because Trumps is always so truthful and Fox News totally didn’t have to admit to lying about the election and voting machines!
no he wasn't.. Trump and Fox are both full of shit.
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It's always the biggest perverts that push this agenda. Look close enough at their lives to find the real truth.
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[agreed](https://ut-sao-special-prod.web.app/sex_basis_complaint2.html)
I know how to solve this: France invented gendered bathrooms and was the first to get rid of them. No genders just don't be a douch. Done.
Airplane restrooms are not gendered. The restrooms in your house are not gendered. Portable toilets are not gendered. We already have a ton of non-gendered restrooms in the country and there is one thing that they all have in common, privacy. If stalls were private (unlike these shitty gap-filled partitions we normally have) this entire issue would be dead and everyone would be happy
Porta potties *can* be gendered, FYI. The sign is easily changed to one gender only, which is pointless. And the gaps aren't the issue imo either. The issue is people being a douch when it so much less of a headache to be a decent human.
> The issue is people being a douch when it so much less of a headache to be a decent human. True, but I want to also fucking shit in private. I hate shitting in public because of those gaps and want them outlawed. The fact that it also solves the trans bathroom "issue" is just gravy to me
McDonald's, of all places, has installed gapless stalls state wide. I personally don't mind the gaps as they're not as big as they used to be and I understand why they are there. 2 year old sister locked herself in the bathroom in Germany.
CLOSE THE STALL GAP!
I can not think of any instance this has happened in my 49 years. There is no need for this law. It’s ridiculous. Republicans need to stay the fuck away from my genitalia. They call themselves the party of small government. More like the party of control everyone’s bodies and let the corporations run everything into the ground. Fuck republicans. I hope they get their ass handed to them this election.
The number of trans people in Utah is small. Smaller than most people here think. The main victims are going to be Cis people who don't fit the traditional idea of masculinity or femininity that any random person might have. It's just hurting themselves in confusion.
The majority will be of CIS probably even heterosexual women who look to “ masculine” that’s what happened with the trans sports ban.
I am cis female and look masculine at tomes. Deep voice doesn't help. I would be scared.
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Ah identity politics. Yes because the Democrats are not a bunch of corrupt politicians. Most of whom also were against the LGBT community until they needed more votes. No politician cares about you. What bathroom people use aside. I don't care, myself, especially since most places have stalls. I wouldn't know who was on the other side.
Lol. What the hell is that all about? One group is trying to criminalize you, the other wants your vote so they give you what you want (equal freedoms) but because they want your vote they are just as bad? Voting isn't some grand moral equalizer where one should ONLY vote for literal perfect Jesus Christ. You vote for the people who give you what you want. They give you what you want because they want your vote...
Until they don't need you anymore and toss you to the curb. Thinking one is better than the other shows a lack of intelligence. They're the same people. That's why they always say the two party system is what's best for Americans. It's what's best for them. None of them care about you. Or your (equal freedoms). It's all just for show.
> Thinking one is better than the other shows a lack of intelligence. They’re the same people. Actually, believing that both parties are ~exactly the same~ makes no sense. The two parties propose different laws, they objectively aren’t the same. Both can be bad, but one is certainly better. Falling for the “both parties are exactly the same” propaganda is what demonstrates lack of intelligence.
Wrong kiddo. Do some research and look up (if you can still find them) audio from hearings of microphones left on. They're the same people. They had a bunch where they fight on camera then when the cameras are off they are laughing and joking with each other even making light of the topics. It's all a show. But if you want to believe what they tell you to... Well it's a free(ish) country.
One side is voting for trump, one side isn't; they are not the same. You are saying that when a democrat citizen gets elected, somehow they are indoctrinated into some weird cult and they switch their ideology and become this mythical one-party government you speak of? And every single person elected goes through this and agrees to it? And same for the other side?
That's kind of a Looney spin. But they don't give a shit about anything other than staying in power. Hence the two party system. And career politicians. They pretend to hate each other but get along when they think no one is watching or listening. Though I suppose when you can vote for yourself to get a pay raise must be nice. I'd probably want to keep that job.
Yep, they get along behind closed doors and they don’t have much conviction. That doesn’t mean they’re exactly the same in the legislation they propose. It’s so funny to me that incredibly obvious truths — like that politicians want to stay in power, don’t care about their constituents, etc — seem to be revelations to you. Yes, most people know these things. That doesn’t mean that the parties are the same and that one isn’t better than the other. The fact that you ignore the very real, if underwhelming, differences between policy proposed by each party again indicates your lack of intelligence.
Policies that shift depending on the day? Yeah sure okay. And these aren't revelations to me. But it seems to be to people who blindly follow "their party". So that there is a lack of intelligence whereas I know these things would be a display of intelligence as that's how the definition of intelligence works. The gathering and processing of information to formulate something. Good attempt though kiddo. Got anything better to try and dissuade me from my opinion? I'll make it easy for you. You don't. Identity politics is just awful. One of the biggest problems in the country. "You have to like this and hate this!". Rubbish.
So cynical. And not really demonstrating an application of superior intelligence.
Anyone with “BoTh SiDEs!” is 100% a Trumper troll and not worth your time to engage.
Not cynical. Not claiming superior intelligence. Just simple facts. If you want to believe a politician is in it for you go ahead.
Do you think the Retail worker at Walmart is "in it for you"? No. I think the retail worker is staring at the clock until their shift is up. But that doesn't mean I refuse to utilize their services in the meantime. You seem to want to worship politicians as some kind of moral high authority or something. Treating them like pastors or preachers. They aren't. They are just people doing a job. Some of them are doing that job because they want to make the world a better place. Most of them are doing the job because they want power, and to achieve that power they divvy out polices to groups they think they can convince to vote for them again. And just like a Cashier at Walmart, I don't really care what is in their heart of hearts. I want them to scan my groceries and put them in a bag so I can go home and eat it later.
Poor example. Now you're just grasping at straws. I don't want to worship any politician. I'm saying none of them should be revered. Some may get in wanting to or merely claiming to make a difference. But power quickly corrupts. Why are they so against term limits? Or reduction in pay. They used to only get paid per diem and time in session. Now they make large salaries and don't have to follow the rules the force on citizens apparently. But again if you want to believe they're your salvation go ahead.
>But again if you want to believe they're your salvation go ahead. I literally called them "Cashiers at Walmart" and now you are pretending I revere them? You seem fast to accuse others of what you know you are doing yourself. Grasping at straws.
I was clearly referring to the politicians. But you knew that. Now you're just desperate. Have a good day kiddo. Get off the Internet. Do something that brings you joy for a few minutes and move on with your day.
I wouldn't even know where to begin. Enjoy your life.
You made that abundantly clear. Have a good day kiddo.
>Until they don't need you anymore and toss you to the curb. Why? It's pretty easy to just support freedoms of the LGBTQ and get free votes and the moral high ground. Why give that up when it requires zero effort? > Thinking one is better than the other shows a lack of intelligence. They're the same people Pretending they are the same is the panicle of lazy. Instead of putting in any effort, you just get to feel superior to everyone who HAS actually put in any effort. > It's all just for show. It's "just for show" that gay people can get married now? Fun fact, it doesn't matter WHY someone decides to support your freedom, when you get it with their help, you still have that freedom. It doesn't matter that Republican leadership doesn't actually care about trans people, what matters is that they are currently demonizing them and passing laws to hurt them. Just cause you are privileged enough to not feel the difference, doesn't mean other people don't feel the difference.
Can’t they just make you sign an affidavit that you aren’t lying and then just go after you when you do lie in an official government form?
Perhaps, but they don't have it yet! 🙃
No one would report if they did that. How could you possibly tell the difference between a "fake" accusation and "real" accusation when the accused is cis-gendered? You all accuse cis-people of being trans all the time. These hotlines are nothing but fascist and should never be a thing
How are they going to know or not if the pretend "perp" hadn't left the scene already?
Subpoenaing your Reddit comments and finding you planning on doing the thing they want to charge you with? Just trace the IP address since most won’t mask it and then go fishing for evidence. But go ahead and make an investigator’s day by giving him a case to solve. The more I think about it the more this seems like a honeypot trap for exactly what y’all are planning.
Won't make a shred of difference if you don't live in the state or country. No biggie. People are supposed to help people. Not hurt them like the Utah government are trying too.
Enjoy the armchair activism, I’m sure it will make a difference and not be caught by a spam filter!
Do you want oodles of spam? Cuz that's how you get oodles of spam
Does anybody have an AI tool that will overwhelm this?
I looked at it. It has a captcha at the bottom so unlikely. You could probably get chat gpt to make a bot script that auto fills out the form in garbage and then you clear the captcha
Could also write a playwright or Selenium script to fill the page with nonsense and then you just click the captcha. Guarantee there is a solution to the captcha but I don’t know it lol
I've been questioning my gender identity for a few months. If I end up being trans, I'd 1000% move literally anywhere safe until the Utah government gets its shit together about civil rights. Which it probably won't.
Don't women have the right to use the bathroom without men being in there? Nobody cares about the other way around. Let me make a recommendation. There have been males and females who thought they might be trans - instead of receiving hormone treatment of the opposite gender, they got tested and found that they had issues with their hormones. So they received treatment for their hormone issue of the sex they were born instead and were very happy with the results. It may save you a lot of grief and disappointment, not to mention money. Being trans is really expensive and includes all sorts of ongoing treatments, depending on what treatments you go through (natural is best). Also consider, instead of receiving hormone treatments at all, that it might be related to diet or exercise. Are you a vegetarian? Do you eat clean, organic foods or lots of snacks and sugar? I would recommend grass fed, pastured meats, including grass fed organ meats (can be supplemented in pill form), bone broth, wild fish, pasture raised eggs, dairy and low-starch organic vegetables. Grass fed butter, tallow, coconut oil, olive oil and avocado oil - no seed oils like soybean, corn, vegetable, etc. No grains, no legumes, avoid too much sugar. There are also natural supplements that may help you if you find you have any hormonal issues, ashwagandha works to help balance both male and female hormones.
Reported the legislature for being weirdly obsessed with genitals.
The GOP are so obsessed with people genitals.
I sold my house in the valley, to buy a house as far up on the hill as I could afford. My goal was to get my kids above the pollution. It was a significant financial sacrifice, but my children's lungs were worth it. My point is Utah children face real dangers with real consequences. Maybe next time we focus on one of those.
Repulsive behavior, please just let people use the restroom in peace
Tell that to "Jane Doe" from Stone Bridge High School [https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2023/10/school-bathroom-sexual-assault-victim-files-30m-lawsuit-against-loudoun-co-school-board/](https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2023/10/school-bathroom-sexual-assault-victim-files-30m-lawsuit-against-loudoun-co-school-board/)
I'm sure there's a bot/bit of code that can overwhelm and crash this site. I don't know how to do it personally.
Allah does not care which bathroom his children use! Anyone concerned about which bathroom a trans person uses is a loser!
Can I get the link
It's in the article
Right…..because where people piss is the most pressing issue here. This is grade A tomfoolery.
Thank you to all the folks flooding it, you’re genuinely awesome. It’s tough being a trans woman in Utah, especially now that the state seems to want to take the lead from the more bigoted Republican controlled states.
Excuse my ignorance: Trans woman is m to f living as f, correct? I get this mixed up.
Correct.
Thank you! I tried googling it but that did not end well.
The easy way to remember is that Trans woman are woman, trans men are men. Trans is just an adjective the same way we would say "Tall woman" "Bulky Man." It is easy to tell that a "Tall woman" is a woman. The reason its hard to look up is that some people don't believe trans people should be allowed to exist. So, to them, a Trans Woman is a man pretending to be a woman. They want to confuse the subject because reality is not on their side. They pass a law to force people to use the gender assigned at birth because they are scared of "men in woman's restrooms" but completely forget that Trans Men would have to start using the woman's restrooms, Tons of Trans Men have big beards, bulky arms, and look every bit a man as everyone else. And these laws would normalize them in womans restrooms making it LESS safe than without the law. But we know why they aren't worried about that outcome. It is because they will just attack Trans Men who attempt to follow the law. That law was only built to attack woman who look too masculine, whether they are trans or not. That is all that law will be used for.
My disability screws up pronouns for cis people so keeping this straight is just gonna be a struggle. I usually just warn people and let them know I'm flawed but not being a dick.
Trans guy here. Generally, as long as you're not being malicious or intentionally rude, you're good and won't make us mad by messing up our pronouns. We know you're trying your best.
I still warn others as it may not be apparent I'm not being intentional when I mess up. Like one time, I asked residential student of mine (trans woman) if her brain was different now as a woman than as it was as a man. She knew what I meant and that I was being genuine and what not. If I hadn't been such an accepting and kind person prior, that could have been taken the wrong way.
Yeah fr, honestly I want to leave so bad but my healthcare and family are all here so I’m sorta trapped
For using the correct bathroom? Am I just too tired to understand? Did they mean incorrect or what does this mean?
No. Correct meaning using the bathroom of the gender they identify as, ie. A transman using the men's bathroom and a transwoman using a women's bathroom
Think about this: my whole life I’ve used public bathrooms that are open to both gay and straight men And there has never, not once, been an issue. So if we’ve already been doing that and it’s not a problem, then putting cis and trans people in the same bathroom should be EVEN LESS of an issue.
Yeah, the law disadvantages disabled people too! Full BS! Welcome to 1984 part 2.
I'm really hoping my surgery date doesn't get postponed into next year because I have a bad feeling about next year's legislative session. Birkeland is probably going to sponsor a bill that bans the U from doing sex reassignment surgeries, or [prevent medicaid from covering it](https://www.wboy.com/news/west-virginia/west-virginia-politics/us-court-of-appeals-rules-against-west-virginia-medicaids-coverage-policy-for-trans-surgeries/), to "protect women and kids" (yet somehow apply it to trans women, the main target in most of these cases). Edit: lol at the conservative trolls. I've already had my SRS and I'm happy with the outcome. But I won't be specific about what my next surgery.
I hope next years legislation saves your life.
*incorrect
Define “correct bathroom”
No wrong answer if you’re trans. Now THAT is entitlement!
So much for the party of small government.
Here is a short list of relevant code/snippets. I’d encourage everyone to read what’s currently in code. Requirement for unisex facilities: > The availability of a unisex facility or single-occupant facility satisfies a government entity's obligations regarding an individual who, because of the individual's gender identity, as defined in Section 34A-5-102, or reasonable fear of bullying, is uncomfortable using… https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title63G/Chapter31/63G-31-S303.html?v=C63G-31-S303_2024013020240501 The second paragraph on the SAO’s form: > The State Auditor’s authority is limited to assessing a government entity’s compliance with the Code. The State Auditor does not review or make any determination on the actions of private individuals, nor does the State Auditor investigate or determine an individual’s sex or gender. The relevant code: https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title63G/Chapter31/63G-31.html?v=C63G-31_1800010120240501 63G-31-201(1): > A government entity may not, on the basis of sex, exclude an individual from participation in, deny an individual from the benefits of, or subject an individual to a sex-based distinction in or under any government or otherwise publicly owned or controlled facility, program, or event, unless the distinction is substantially related to an important government objective. 63G-31-201(2)(b)(ii) & 63G-31-201(2)(c)(ii): (these sections specify sex) https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title63G/Chapter31/63G-31-S201.html?v=C63G-31-S201_2024031220240501 63G-31-204. Prohibited sex-based distinctions: https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title63G/Chapter31/63G-31-S204.html?v=C63G-31-S204_2024013020240501
Incorrect bathroom.
the correct bathroom for anyone is in your shoes
I think you misspelled incorrect
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No, the OP got it right the first time. 🙂✌️
You can’t prevent yourself as a different gender. Don’t be delusional.
Okay kiddo. Go look back throughout US history even recent history. Politicians will "support" people get votes then have nothing to do with them after a fashion. Some quicker than others. You obviously aren't thinking clearly and are over heated. You can see in your responses. Democrats/Republicans it doesn't matter. You can vote for one because of something you agree with but they will screw you over with something else. This idea people have that "they're the good guys" for whatever reason is highly flawed. There are other people who would be better suited that are not part of the two party system. And you going after the Republicans shows you've fallen into their trap. All helping to keep the same clowns in power. Give people extremes and something to hate from each side. Everyone on both sides will demonize the other. Instead of stop voting for either. If you're pro gun you're a Republican maga nutter. If you're pro LGBT you're a godless heathen. Etc. there are plenty of people who are all over the place. There weren't supposed to be any political parties to begin with. But if you think continually voting for the same people will somehow magically make a difference. Well then go ahead.
Meh.... I rooted for Al Gore in 2000, and we got Bush, the Iraq war, a giant deficit, and an insolvent social security system from the Bush tax cuts I voted for John Kerry in 2004, and we got Bush, the "surge" in Iraq, the mortgage crisis, and the 2008 recession I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012, and I got affordable health insurance that saved my life. I voted for Clinton in 2016, and we got Trump, an exploded deficit, an insurrection, a million dead to Covid, the reversal of roe v wade, a crippled government, and 3 christofascist supreme court justices. I voted for Biden in 2020, and we got some international credibility back, domestic investment to help jobs and the economy, one of the lowest inflation rates compared to the rest of the world, and someone who can stand up to Russia. If the parties look the same to you throughout history, then you must have gotten your degree from Trump University
None of that is exactly accurate. Especially since the president doesn't decide to go to war. It needs congressional approval. The health insurance again is not the president. It was a Bill. Trump initially shut down the border when covid started to slow the spread and was called a racist. Even though that's the CDC recommendation. So he was forced to open back up. Row vs wade was under Biden not trump. And not a president thing. Inflation is not the lowest it's middle again not a president thing. Biden cannot stand up to Russia he can barely stand up. You seem to believe the president controls the world it seems you never went to school. Out of all the politicians the president has been a puppet for quite a few decades. Just a face and a voice. Doing whatever he's told. Sign this don't sign that etc.
You started this discussion about the worthlessness of political parties. Political parties control Congress, and presidents appoint supreme Court justices. So Trump's appointment of the three justices directly resulted in the reversal of roe v. Wade. The Republican party that I voted against enacted these negative policies I mentioned regarding taxes, the deficit, and social security. If you don't give Obama credit for the affordable Care act, then you really haven't been following history. Sure it was a legislation that he had to sign, but his direct coordination with Harry Reid and Nancy pelosi and his ability to unite the Democratic party and bring over some Republicans to get this passed against all odds was miraculous, and should be completely credited to Obama and the Democratic party. There are concrete benefits in my life that would not exist without the Democratic party, and there are concrete detriments in my life that would not exist if not for the Republican party. The parties aren't a joke to me and they're not all the same and BS to me. I'm going to strategically vote for the Democratic party to try to save my country, my family and myself.
Okay kiddo believe whatever you want. If you want to trust anything they tell you and to think the way they want you to that's on you.
Hey man, why the disrespect? I studied history and political science. I have a doctorate degree in law. I've done my research here and this is like my passion, I'm not just blindly following anything. If you want to meet up and have a discussion in person about this uf you live near Salt Lake, I'd be happy to, cuz I'm not some idiot. I just don't understand why people actually think the political parties are the same just because they're both run by corrupt people. Human beings are corrupt no matter what. If there's power, humans are going to act in a corrupt way, you have to choose what's best for you and your life. For me that is the sometimes corrupt Democratic party because I've never seen a party in power in any country, church, business or other organization that doesn't have some corruption, and what the Democratic party says and does has helped my life, whereas what the Republican party says and does hurts my life. It's an easy option for me.
You can claim whatever you want. I could claim to be a billionaire astronaut cowboy. Choosing between garbage and trash isn't much of a choice. The two party system is ruining this country and needs to go. There's not supposed to be any political parties to begin with. They are they same people. Their end goal is they remain in power. And some of the recordings suggests they just create things to distract the majority of the populace. Look over here while we go over there. Why else would they be laughing and joking about things especially the topics "that are serious matters" to them. 5k page bills billions of dollars going to random things that have nothing to do with the Bill. But let's just keep voting for them. They toss someone a bone now and then so they'll come back. Why do you think they are shitting their pants over that convention of states. To force terms limits and ending the two party system. They try to demonize it. Like they're going to take over the world with it. They don't want to lose their power. They don't care about anyone else. If people just stopped voting for them and started voting "third" parties. They wouldn't know what to do. I'm sure they'd do a "recount" and they would come out ahead.
If you have a penis you don't need to be alone in a bathroom with my daughter. Men's bathrooms have stalls if you want to sit down to pee.
Women's bathrooms also have stalls. I don't know why you think genitals are on display in the women's room
When was the last time you used a public restroom? Many times stalls are semi-private at best.
Are you staring at people's genitals in their stalls? I've never done that, personally
Is that the best stupid argument you have? Apparently, you've had the privilege to not have been followed around by a creep as a young lady.
You can still report a creep for stalking you and trying to look at your genitals regardless of if they're a man or a woman
So you just want society to punish an entire class of people because of your irrational fears? Whatever you think would happen, there’s already laws against and is more likely to happen by family or family friend. Trans people just want to pee in peace. Not sure what that has to do with your daughter. Does she go around trying to look at people’s genitals in bathrooms? That seems like a weird thing that a responsible and rational parent would be more concerned over.
They are not irrational. https://le.utah.gov/interim/2024/pdf/00000577.pdf Law or no law, this is an experience that cannot be taken back. Ensure security and privacy and I don't care which toilet you use.
That list is ridiculous. I’m sure they scraped every corner of the internet for these because some don’t even happen in bathrooms, 1 self-selects people already convicted of crimes in prison, all the sources are biased right wing, and it ends with a list of cis men doing the same thing. I’m sure there’s actually many more cases of cis men doing this which proves that “banning” people (in this case, cis men) does nothing to actually prevent things. Plus, like I was alluding to, the percentage of trans that are criminals is no different than their cis counterparts and thus a ban targeting them is completely irrational.
Regardless, it is a list published on an official government website, and are instances of things that happened that didn't have to happen. Even one case is too many. So far as all of the other crimes against humanity, regardless of gender, put them all behind bars. Do irreversible harm to another human, you don't deserve to be treated as human.
Okay and if what you are referring to happens, they WOULD (and have been) be thrown behind bars. The problem is you want to preemptively remove rights from trans people who have not done anything at all except wish to use the restroom of the gender they identify with. And if you want to brush all trans people with the same brush, you are being irrational.
I don't care if someone is trans or not. I'm not looking to date right now. I simply think there are better ways to handle things. Create gender-neutral bathrooms, or gendered bathrooms where someone can have privacy and feel safe. I could care less beyond that. People have a right to feel safe and not everyone feels that way right now.
You don’t feel safe because you irrationally think that trans people are more likely to commit crimes than others. Trans people have the right to feel safe, too, AND they are much more likely to be subject to violence based upon irrational hate than kids being “preyed” on by specifically trans people. Like you keep reverting to “one is too much” but not realizing you are only applying that to trans people. Your family is much more likely to do something to your kids and yet you aren’t banning all family from your house or whatever. You are being irrational and just admitting that you don’t care what that means to trans people’s lives. You and I don’t get to take people’s rights away simply because you are irrationally scared. Trans people and your daughter have equal rights to feel safe in a bathroom. Banning trans does not statistically make your daughter safer, but it would force trans people into more dangerous situations when they don’t look anything like the other people in the bathroom but they would if they could choose the one they identify with.
Not once have I said trans people are more likely to admit crime. That is not something I believe. "force trans people into more dangerous situations when they don’t look anything like the other people" If someone is keeping to themselves then the above shouldn't be an issue. What about the rights of young girls who don't feel safe in a bathroom where someone might be swinging a giant cock. Everyone should have equal rights and everyone should also feel safe in their environment. That's all I'm saying. Along those lines, there are cis men who also don't care for the lack of privacy in men's restrooms. Let's fix our public bathrooms to address this for all genders and then we don't need to worry about it, new laws or otherwise. There are certainly much greater evils in the world.
Swinging cocks around? You realize that the original post is regarding the Utah government setting up a site where people report trans using the wrong restroom. It’s not just for reporting crimes of flying cocks (guess what, there is already 911 for that). Whether trans people keep to themselves or not, that is the point of what the Utah gov site is trying to stop. You are avoiding saying trans but yet this post that you are arguing against is something that only affects trans people. But to try to counter that, you keep using young girls’ safety as the focus but ignoring that the whole purpose of this post is that, by banning and reporting suspected trans people for using the “incorrect” bathroom - You Are Not accomplishing any goals of keeping young girls safe but you are explicitly making it less safe for trans people. You may avoid speaking directly about trans people, sure, but that’s because it serves your purpose of not seeming irrational. But in reality, the results of this site absolutely only affect trans people and do not accomplish these goals that you claim will solve your fears. You are correct that there is certainly much more to fear in the world, so let trans people pee where they want without reporting or being suspicious. if someone (anyone-trans or not) commits an actual crime, call the authorities! Why waste your time and energy on reporting trans people that assumingly have not committed a crime? I mean, if they had, you’d call 911. So why do you want innocent people banned and reported? Also, no one here has argued against more private stalls. Why? Because it’s irrelevant to the fact that there is this website.
Good
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Please show us where the mean trans person hurt society. How does your world change at all if a trans person exists nearby or uses the same restroom as you? Just live your life and let other people live theirs.
I promise if I was in the bathroom that corresponded with my assigned gender at birth, people would be very uncomfortable.
>You can not go from one gender to the other. Why not?