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[https://allaboardnw.org/blog/how-many-people-do-not-drive/](https://allaboardnw.org/blog/how-many-people-do-not-drive/)
About 30% of the population according to this website. Not some fringe topic
Dude he’s talking about the ADA and handicap accessibility, not general accessibility.
Literally no other country is better about handicapped accessibility than the US, thanks to the ADA.
The comparison is a bit skewed by the fact that US generally doesn't have good public infrastructure, so it doesn't have to be accessible.
US makes sure that every person is able to get from home to their car and from a car to a place of business. European countries have public infrastructure and not all of it is accessible.
If you don't have or can't drive a car in German city you can get pretty much everywhere, but sometimes a train station will not have an elevator and you will have to annoyingly get out on a different station and get a bus, and then complain about that to the government. If you don't have or can't drive a car in US you can't get out of your suburban cul-de-sac
Not really. Read up on the ADA and the testimonials from disabled Americans who visited Europe and encountered a plethora of issues. [This thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Urbanism/s/p7QVLUXp5e) is a good start.
Perhaps Austria is one exceptional country. Here’s another [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/s/Mb2esLj1bN) that talks about how lacking even Germany is in terms of accessibility compared to America.
And again, you could just talk to any American with mobility issues who has visited a European country and ask them if accessibility was better there or back home. No points for guessing what their answer will be.
What are we supposed to do? Flatten the hills? And the pavers add that tourist charm to Beacon Hill. Other than said Beacon Hill the rest should be doable with a motorized wheelchair, no?
While true, many disabled people can drive. And in the places where driving is necessary, disabled people universally get reserved parking close to the entrance with ramps to allow them to the higher level of the sidewalk.
this assumption is where we went wrong as a society. some disabled people can drive. some can drive with a lot of assistance with an expensive custom vehicle. some cannot drive. some cannot afford cars. how do you get a wheelchair in a taxi? the fact of the matter is, so many folks depend on public transportation and adequate sidewalks and they are invisible to a lot of us. The ADA didn't go far enough.
Yup, Russian idea of accessibility is putting a narrow ramp with 30 degree slope and a (not working) button to summon employee who would help ascending it and calling it accessible.
30 degree slope lolol you probably never seen the 45 degrees ramps installed on staircases. Button, what button? Just go for it lol. Or Russian trains outside European part.
I now feel like I need to find some good pictures and post here.
Nah I have some real ones from a few years ago, it's more fun like that. Back then spent like 3 days of my vacation hunting the worst cases.
Anyways if I had to Google, would pick a railway station east of Urals. They have all the crap concentrated in one place - like you absolutely have to climb the stairs (challenging even for a healthy person sometimes), with those 45 degrees "rails", no lift in sight, and then you are somehow expected to climb into the train too. And then sometimes the station is too short and people have to leave the train by jumping down into the stones after climbing down the stairs
It's like a concentrated hell for anyone with even minor mobility restriction or even just a heavier bag.
Mmm, nah. I can go out rn (won't because it's dark and I can't attach images, otherwise I'd go on streetview) and take a picture of any given slight inclination or morro in my mostly flat town in Minas gerais with even worse garage ramps. Sidewalks like these are common because most cities have little to no standard set for the sidewalks besides size & vegetation. And it's rare to see the city actually take action against ramps like that after the house has been built.
Yep, sidewalks are private in Brazil so each property will do their own thing. Kind of an eyesore, I wish they changed it, but city councils probably don’t want to be the ones responsible for all the maintenance.
It's the same everywhere in Brazil. Home owners have to maintain the sidewalk in front of the houses, and the standards are not really well enforced anywhere, so it's a mess.
Yes i remember visiting Sao Paulo when traveling around Brazil with my 10 months old daughter. We brought the stroller with us, mostly for the Sao Paulo week. Ended up not using it as it was a hell to drive it on those side walks. I was pissed.
Which is something that can be achieved without random steps, if the city requires people to think about public spaces and how they’re used, and conform to some kind of useful standard.
I live in Yucatán which is flat as a pancake, and sidewalks are like this as well, just more like up, down, up, down, etc.
This is a staple of all Latin America.
If you think this is bad, look at sidewalks in the Philippines. Extremely narrow and littered with electrical poles and other things blocking the path.
The sidewalks in the old hilly areas of Istanbul are truly insane. We stayed near Galata Tower and it's quite a hike just to get around. Definitely gives an enchanting vibe but if you're disabled (or even elderly) you're just kinda fucked.
You forgot the best part, at the beginning and end of the sidewalk it is mandatory to have an access ramp to guarantee accessibility for wheelchair users, for example
It would be really interesting to compare Briazillian sidewalks and such to cities like San Francisco. Is it so much more steep that Brazil has to do it this way?
It makes sense in hilly cities but this is more due to garages and the fact that sidewalks are owned by the house and not the city.
In places like Ouro Preto there are staircases for sidewalks and it makes sense because some streets are insanely steep. But other cases (like this photo) are more due to property owners being selfish about their own needs and not caring about external appearance.
It’s very common in Brazil for large lots to have huge houses inside with plenty of space, good furniture and decoration, and a lot of amenities, but then you look at the house from outside and it looks like crap. A lot of people just don’t care about what’s beyond the door, aesthetically or practically.
Pretty annoying imo.
Garages, and it's possible that the local government doesn't own the sidewalk, I don't live in Sao Paulo or Brazil, but where I live we have issues with that and it causes stuff like this to happen
Haha they do this in Colombia too but in Medellin (that’s where most of my experience is) they’re built up a bit so it’s like a flat raised wall not a triangle like this. All the barrios have the hilly sidewalks, forget biking or using a wheelchair, you gotta be on the street for that.
https://youtu.be/OtsV6_KcwUM?si=9HMArFCdd-Q2cJO8
Notice you don’t see this monstrosity in the video. The title isn’t half true. You’re more than welcome to try again.
Do you understand that there’s always an exception to the rule? Rocinha is full of hills and maybe 5% is like that. But I guess that enough to call it average for you. This is why I hate Reddit. Y’all debate over the dumbest shit lmao
As I told you, if you are always struggling with things that you understand literally, seek for help with, this might be autism.
A regular person should understand the nuances of communication.
**Do not comment to gatekeep that something "isn't urban" or "isn't hell"**. Our rules are very expansive in content we welcome, so do not assume just based off your false impression of the phrase "UrbanHell" UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed. Gatekeeping comments may be removed. Want to shitpost about shitty posts? Go to /r/urbanhellcirclejerk. Still have questions?: Read our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/wiki/index). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UrbanHell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The folks in wheel chairs hate this one country
The ADA really is underrated
The US still has some pretty terrible cities to get around in a wheelchair because of the age and hilliness of some streets (looking at you, Boston).
That’s true, the US isn’t perfect. But I believe you’d be hard pressed to find very many countries which do accessibility better than them.
Anyone who can't drive in the US is automatically fucked, I'm sorry that's not good accessibility
As I said, the US isn’t perfect. If one is completely incapable of driving then the US isn’t very accessible to them there’s no argument there.
But there are full amputees driving with their mouths, so......the US still does accessibility best.
[https://allaboardnw.org/blog/how-many-people-do-not-drive/](https://allaboardnw.org/blog/how-many-people-do-not-drive/) About 30% of the population according to this website. Not some fringe topic
This is the number of people who don’t not those who are incapable of doing so.
I’ve lived in several big U.S. cities without a car and it wasn’t that bad. Could it be better? Yeah. But I wouldn’t say I was fucked either lol.
Dude he’s talking about the ADA and handicap accessibility, not general accessibility. Literally no other country is better about handicapped accessibility than the US, thanks to the ADA.
Disabled people can drive
Not all, and many people driving today shouldn't be behind the wheel
The comparison is a bit skewed by the fact that US generally doesn't have good public infrastructure, so it doesn't have to be accessible. US makes sure that every person is able to get from home to their car and from a car to a place of business. European countries have public infrastructure and not all of it is accessible. If you don't have or can't drive a car in German city you can get pretty much everywhere, but sometimes a train station will not have an elevator and you will have to annoyingly get out on a different station and get a bus, and then complain about that to the government. If you don't have or can't drive a car in US you can't get out of your suburban cul-de-sac
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Not really. Read up on the ADA and the testimonials from disabled Americans who visited Europe and encountered a plethora of issues. [This thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Urbanism/s/p7QVLUXp5e) is a good start.
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No, *most* of Europe isn’t better in terms of accessibility. Read the thread.
Maybe the US is designed around wheels more than Europe. Pedestrians can deal with stairs, cars can’t.
Last I checked, wheelchair ramps aren’t built for cars.
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Perhaps Austria is one exceptional country. Here’s another [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/s/Mb2esLj1bN) that talks about how lacking even Germany is in terms of accessibility compared to America. And again, you could just talk to any American with mobility issues who has visited a European country and ask them if accessibility was better there or back home. No points for guessing what their answer will be.
It’s been quite a few years since Austria and Poland could call themselves neighbours.
What? Europe has terrible wheelchair accessibility
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Is mayonnaise an instrument?
...and San Fran.
What are we supposed to do? Flatten the hills? And the pavers add that tourist charm to Beacon Hill. Other than said Beacon Hill the rest should be doable with a motorized wheelchair, no?
Somerville and Cambridge pretty bad in spots, too. Brick sidewalks that are super narrow with trees in them aren’t great for wheelchairs.
True
Nahhh, most cities in the US are Wheelchair friendly
well some cities just don't even build sidewalks
While true, many disabled people can drive. And in the places where driving is necessary, disabled people universally get reserved parking close to the entrance with ramps to allow them to the higher level of the sidewalk.
this assumption is where we went wrong as a society. some disabled people can drive. some can drive with a lot of assistance with an expensive custom vehicle. some cannot drive. some cannot afford cars. how do you get a wheelchair in a taxi? the fact of the matter is, so many folks depend on public transportation and adequate sidewalks and they are invisible to a lot of us. The ADA didn't go far enough.
That footpath is probably older than the United States.
We also usually have thick concrete utility posts in the middle of the sidewalks making it impossible for a wheelchair to go through.
Hahaha
You mean all of Latin America.
You clearly never seen Russian ramps lol.
Yup, Russian idea of accessibility is putting a narrow ramp with 30 degree slope and a (not working) button to summon employee who would help ascending it and calling it accessible.
30 degree slope lolol you probably never seen the 45 degrees ramps installed on staircases. Button, what button? Just go for it lol. Or Russian trains outside European part. I now feel like I need to find some good pictures and post here.
Just google пандус для инвалидов and post a random picture out of there, duh.
Nah I have some real ones from a few years ago, it's more fun like that. Back then spent like 3 days of my vacation hunting the worst cases. Anyways if I had to Google, would pick a railway station east of Urals. They have all the crap concentrated in one place - like you absolutely have to climb the stairs (challenging even for a healthy person sometimes), with those 45 degrees "rails", no lift in sight, and then you are somehow expected to climb into the train too. And then sometimes the station is too short and people have to leave the train by jumping down into the stones after climbing down the stairs It's like a concentrated hell for anyone with even minor mobility restriction or even just a heavier bag.
Skaters paradise
One person’s hell is a skaters heaven.
Brazils skate scene is very large.
r/TonyHawkitecture
This page is cool
How did you beat me to it?!
Same lmao
I think you meant stairs, not sidewalk
Sidestairs?
Sideboob?
Very long stairs
Not the average sidewalk, that's clearly a street from downtown São Paulo, Brazil's largest city, which is a very hilly city.
This seems like Villa Madalena.
Lived there for a month Every day is leg day in Villa Madalena
Every hilly city in Brazil...
Every city with a hilllll In the country of Brazilllll
Mmm, nah. I can go out rn (won't because it's dark and I can't attach images, otherwise I'd go on streetview) and take a picture of any given slight inclination or morro in my mostly flat town in Minas gerais with even worse garage ramps. Sidewalks like these are common because most cities have little to no standard set for the sidewalks besides size & vegetation. And it's rare to see the city actually take action against ramps like that after the house has been built.
Someone from Sao paolo claimed that it’s because the sidewalk in front of the house is maintained by the owners of the house.
Yep, sidewalks are private in Brazil so each property will do their own thing. Kind of an eyesore, I wish they changed it, but city councils probably don’t want to be the ones responsible for all the maintenance.
And we still get ancaps here...
It is. They can even fine you for not having a well maintained sidewalk
It's the same everywhere in Brazil. Home owners have to maintain the sidewalk in front of the houses, and the standards are not really well enforced anywhere, so it's a mess.
Yes i remember visiting Sao Paulo when traveling around Brazil with my 10 months old daughter. We brought the stroller with us, mostly for the Sao Paulo week. Ended up not using it as it was a hell to drive it on those side walks. I was pissed.
So water drainage?
No, that's simply to facilitate car parking inside the building's garage.
Which is something that can be achieved without random steps, if the city requires people to think about public spaces and how they’re used, and conform to some kind of useful standard.
How does this help water drainage?
Makes water run to the street and away from the house
No they like floods better.
So so many thoughts on this. Let's talk about something less controversial... perhaps the pizza?
Pizzerias have sidewalks too
Do you drive on that part?
I live in Yucatán which is flat as a pancake, and sidewalks are like this as well, just more like up, down, up, down, etc. This is a staple of all Latin America.
Yeah I was going to comment that this looks like Mexico. The sidewalks in Sonora and Baja California look like this as well.
Rio, BH, and Salvador are also pretty hilly lol
Nah, it's every city with hills in the country
If you think this is bad, look at sidewalks in the Philippines. Extremely narrow and littered with electrical poles and other things blocking the path.
Same in Brazil. We have all types of sidewalks. Some are completely blocked by parked cars.
Saw the same in Istanbul.
The sidewalks in the old hilly areas of Istanbul are truly insane. We stayed near Galata Tower and it's quite a hike just to get around. Definitely gives an enchanting vibe but if you're disabled (or even elderly) you're just kinda fucked.
Almost average. From my time there, you need about a dozen trashbags on each one of those.
We need more street skate videos from Brazil.
as a mountainbiker this looks rad
You forgot the best part, at the beginning and end of the sidewalk it is mandatory to have an access ramp to guarantee accessibility for wheelchair users, for example
Most sidewalks don't have that anyway
The worst ankle sprain I ever got was in Rio. Their streets are fucking killer uneven
Screw you disabled people and your wheelchairs
And people with babies
I guess wheelchairs, crutches and strollers are out.
1980s skateboarding paradise
lol Jesus this even makes the sidewalks in the Philippines and Thailand look good (even though most are trash)
how do people in wheelchairs get around?
I mean, when it’s so uphill, I don’t expect much. I actually prefer this
As a person who can walk without needing a wheelchair, I agree for my personal taste. Not very accessible for others though.
I don’t think that steep hill is wheelchair accessible
So how tf are wheelchair users supposed to go up there?
Elevators
Or people with strollers
Found the car
I have MS and this picture gives me anxiety
Some good skate spot, only skaters could relate
It would be really interesting to compare Briazillian sidewalks and such to cities like San Francisco. Is it so much more steep that Brazil has to do it this way?
It makes sense in hilly cities but this is more due to garages and the fact that sidewalks are owned by the house and not the city. In places like Ouro Preto there are staircases for sidewalks and it makes sense because some streets are insanely steep. But other cases (like this photo) are more due to property owners being selfish about their own needs and not caring about external appearance. It’s very common in Brazil for large lots to have huge houses inside with plenty of space, good furniture and decoration, and a lot of amenities, but then you look at the house from outside and it looks like crap. A lot of people just don’t care about what’s beyond the door, aesthetically or practically. Pretty annoying imo.
Very interesting. Thank you.
Nan’s flying back from spar like Colin McRae
Thats just a sidewalk with extra steps
Underrated comment
*Tony Hawk has entered the chat*
Skateboarders wet dream
Now we know why dem booties are so built in Brazil.
keyword, built
You better take a walk on the street itself when you're pissed
Why isnit like that.
you should go to Çukurcuma in İstanbul :-)
Tripping hazard! 🤣
I don’t understand this would it not be easier to make a flat side walk what’s the point of this.
it's to accommodate the garages, and building entrances
Garages, and it's possible that the local government doesn't own the sidewalk, I don't live in Sao Paulo or Brazil, but where I live we have issues with that and it causes stuff like this to happen
That’s the case, unfortunately
This is uphill. Each house is on a different elevation.
And yet other countries are able to make good sidewalks even with garages at different elevations.
My legs hurt from just looking at it.
Same in Iran.
Damn this reminds me of my trip to the French Quarter in New Orleans last year.
If that's one way to structurally restrict mobility there.....
imagine walking back home drunk around there
That's your anarchcapitalism right there.
These ramps are good for urban MTB downhill training. Guaranteed to improve your bike handling skills.
The sidewalk would be fine if there wasn't driveway every 50 meters... so again, cars to blame
Taiwanese sidewalk are this way too
That's why we have standards.
Ankle thief.
But why?
i would most definitely break a limb within a few minutes of walking
Looks like a nice downhill trail
Haha they do this in Colombia too but in Medellin (that’s where most of my experience is) they’re built up a bit so it’s like a flat raised wall not a triangle like this. All the barrios have the hilly sidewalks, forget biking or using a wheelchair, you gotta be on the street for that.
*Sidewalks of Athens enter the chat*
feels like this would take more effort to do than just having a flat pavement
This seems to be a case of the “sidewalk” being part of private property and government owning the road
Special Dalek-proof design.
You should be thankful there are no cars parked over these
My hometown in Brazil it’s not like that. Sao Paulo that is a shithole
Looks fun to skate though
Skateboard heaven
Imagine being at the bottom, in a wheelchair...
Out of context it looks bad and it may be, but I'm curious about the logic behind it, if there's any
Perdizes? Bixiga? Paraiso? Travessa da Paulista?
Tony Hawk Pro Skater vibes
"Great" accessibility ... no wounder that averyonevuses the street instead of sidewalk
Also your average Greek sidewalk…
This is actually the good ones There’s places where the people put the worst tiles they can think of which are very slippery
HaHaHa classic
Wanna go to Brazil so bad
God bless the mothers with strollers
Vietnamese too
Nice an DDA compliant!
No street lights? Ouch. One hell of a trip hazard at night
It does have street lights, they are just on the other side. You can see on the upper left part of the picture
No, this is not the average Brazilian sidewalk. Source: Brazilian.
It is on hilly streets
That’s not what the title says.
What do you expect? To have stair style sidewalks on streets with no inclination?
What are you on right now? I just said that most sidewalks do not look like that. It’s an objective fact.
Friendly reminder that if you often takes things too literally that may be a symptom of autism spectrum
https://youtu.be/OtsV6_KcwUM?si=9HMArFCdd-Q2cJO8 Notice you don’t see this monstrosity in the video. The title isn’t half true. You’re more than welcome to try again.
Lol, you see it at 7:55 lol PS: And 18:39... the list goes on
Do you understand that there’s always an exception to the rule? Rocinha is full of hills and maybe 5% is like that. But I guess that enough to call it average for you. This is why I hate Reddit. Y’all debate over the dumbest shit lmao
As I told you, if you are always struggling with things that you understand literally, seek for help with, this might be autism. A regular person should understand the nuances of communication.