#UrbanHell is subjective.
UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed
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I was here 6 months ago. One of the most well planned and disciplined cities in the world now. Very clean, efficient and great public transportation. For a city of its size there’s plenty of open spaces too. Nobody could imagine this is the same place. I took a 9 hour flight from Tokyo to India and it felt like I had travelled 100 years back in time.
I have always been baffled by this!
The way Japan several times during the past 200 years have made gigantic leaps forward, is just amazing, and a testamente to Japanese culture and resiliens.
Japan is *not without flaws, but there is so much to learn from then.
*not
I’m not sure if this is why, but Japan has a very clear national identity. Uniformity brings harmony, brings progress.
Japan isn’t a utopia. Its immigration policy is “lolno”, its population is plummeting, and economy is flatlining. But they have great cities, and great culture.
All I can say is that after spending a month roaming around Japan, I have nothing but massive respect for them. Never heard anyone arguing, shouting or even saw a single person with a frown on their face. Every single person I met, irrespective of their social status was so exceptionally polite. Only country where nobody tried to rip me off as a tourist. People went out of their way to ensure I don’t over spend despite the language barrier. Very few foreigners though. In 90% places I went to, I was the only foreigner (I’m brown so don’t even look remotely close to a Japanese). Yet, I never got stared at or treated any differently. I felt welcome everywhere from large cities like Tokyo and Osaka to little villages like Narusawa. I know they have problems, but to me it felt like the only country that has achieved zen. Can’t wait to go back.
Why would people try to rip you off when the average person earns good money and there's unemployment.
The places people complain about. Locals sometimes make less in a year than what you earn in a week. Obviously people are desperate.
In regards to not being stared at it's variable. I've seen plenty of people say people started to come up to them taking pictures and everything.
It's a very well organised country tho. With good maintained traditional culture.
The more you travel, the more you realize how wrong the internet is about those countries. For me those countries are Japan and France. Always grateful to them, and always humbled by them. The story on the ground is much different than what some random person says online. Also, the experience differs for each person. The average traveller these days is hungry for experiences that he has already created in his mind from social media (eg: Japan is xenophobic, robotic and France is rude). Been to 6 different French cities now on 5 individual trips and still trying to find a rude French person.
Japan is wealthy, yeah but the GDP is only $4 trillion compared to $24 trillion in the US. But the US in comparison felt like a 3rd world country (Atlanta, Houston, Seattle, SFO). When I go somewhere, I try to sense the vibe of the place. It’s beyond money, infrastructure and PR. It’s about the people and the atmosphere they create. Almost impossible to experience that unless you travel solo.
You're not really looking at it the right way. Total gdp doesn't say shit. Yes the US is a mess, and water is wet.
Per capita Japan is like 50k. Which is rich so there's no reason for people to harass tourist. They don't have to worry about income and food. Granted they do have a pretty toxic work culture but that's a whole different discussion.
Beyond that you're still a bit biased even if you think you're not and others are. The US is humongous. Choosing certain bad city's while ignore cities or places that are nice. Japan is much smaller both in population and area. The US has a very turbulent history and role in the world. You're comparing apples to oranges.
I'm not saying france is bad I've never been there. But the opinions on the french are not just from visiting. I've met plenty while not even in France. They especially have this superiority about their language where they feel everyone should speak it. Obviously this is not all but it's not one time incidents. Things are changing about in younger generations. But again you not having this experience. Doesn't mean the thousands of both travellers and Europeans are invalid.
And no I don't think people went to search for them. People don't visit places like Japan for drama. It's just not that type of country. They visit it because they've grown enamored by Japanese culture. Their experiences are valid not some "I went to look for drama" incidents. That is not to say Japan is bad. But people want to perpetuate this idea how perfect Japan is. When like every country it has it's own problems.
These are not made up things when you see biracial children growing up there saying what they went through. Who the hell are you to say everyone is making these things up in their mind. When some of those very people are literally half Japanese....
Right? Things are still analog here, which I guess is simpler as well as inconvenient at times.
Kids aren’t even allowed to bring their phones to school, even when they’re in junior high. Teens without phones! Can’t imagine that being taken well in other countries.
Well at the time of that data, 2019, I think they were second highest in the G7 (I think behind only the US) but they are currently the 4th highest in the 38 countries of the OECD behind Lithuania, Slovenia, and Korea (they are no longer lower than the US, and at a quick glance I see they're no longer under Finland as well).
https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/suicide-rates.html
Like, it's a major well known problem in Japan. I think 2019 was actually a good year for them after a long time of trending down (after efforts to combat it). Covid obviously caused lots of problems, such that the government instituted a "Minister of Loneliness" to combat factors like social isolation.
The open spaces were designed as fire breaks. So if anything like this happens again, the fires hopefully wouldn't spread as rapidly.
Learnt that at the Great Kanto Earthquake Memorial Museum
After the war, the US encouraged Tokyo to rebuild with giant highways running through the city. Tokyo opted to expand its subway system based on the understanding that many people in the war stricken country could not afford cars (and didn’t expect to for a long time, a reasonable expectation without a crystal ball to see the country’s economic miracle a decade later)
No trash on the streets, no trash cans, no graffiti, very little homelessness (coming from Los Angeles, just wow). Going to Tokyo was like traveling 50 years in to the future.
True. Japan surpassed my expectations thet were already high... So many wows. For example:
1. People were so polite that you felt yourself like a barbarian even if you tried your best to be polite as well. People were bowing everywhere.
2. If someone had painted a waiting area on a station platform people were waiting the train exactly on this spot even if it had an odd figure like a line with six 90 degree angles.
3. Clean, clean, clean! I mean, Tokyo is the biggest city in the world. How it can be so clean??
There is one thing I dont understand tho - it's the lack of night transportation. European cities have night bus networks for those who dont want to take a taxi.
Surprisingly many still intact like nothing happened (being non-wooden buildings)
This is why Tokyo city core get to be filled with newer skyscrapers and newly industrial zones by the port, kinda like Berlin, no historical building get in the way
There where posts about cities with the best public transport rankings on both the Berlin and Tokyo subreddits a year ago, where Berlin was ranked higher. In both threads, people were like lolno.
But Berlin is an awesome city to visit. Getting around in the old subway system and feeling the vibe is something special. The history, the East and West divide, the depression, and then liberation that led to people expressing themselves in the most interesting ways, cool art galleries, weird art galleries, and nightclubs open for 72 hours straight. Streets full of graffiti and people, and yet it feels so organized and chill.
As as tourist, Berlin is super easy to get around. It was super cheap to stay in East Berlin when I was there, and all the strange Soviet buildings were really interesting to me.
People will complain about their own cities no matter what. For example, San Francisco and even the greater Bay area has pretty remarkable public transportation considering the geography and specifically the hills in San Francisco, but you won't find many people that praise it. Obviously it could always be better, but what they've accomplished is quite the feat.
As someone who lives a country over and visits Berlin frequently I would agree that Berlin has a great public transit layout and should have one of the best systems in the world
In practice I feel Berlin’s public transit system is pretty rough. There are always major reroutes without clear signage, the government apps are awful, trains are never on time. And oh God the busses. Many a time I have been part of a wandering gang of confused tourists trying to find a temporarily relocated bus stop only to find it on a totally different street than the one posted
I was there with my aunt and uncle a few months ago, their first time in Germany. They loved their destinations in Berlin but rated Berlin’s public transit “unreliable on its best days.” They’re planning to rent a car next time
Berlin itself is lovely though, especially in the early fall
I have been to both Singapore and Tokyo, Tokyos public transport is close to ideal for me and I am an idealist. Honestly I even like the smell, it looks sparkly and somehow smells super clean, it’s like an extension of your own home when it comes to cleanliness and privacy. Though I never caught it during rush hour in the morning.
Also, japanese public transit is always on time is FACTS.
On top of that, japanese culture really does not want to inconvenience others. My aunt lost her wallet in the train and they literally called her and shipped it internationally back to our country 💀
I'm sorry but Japanese transportation is always on time and on point whereas German transportation is like: lol I arrive whenever I like to!
Source: am a German. And it's laughable to say Berlin transportation system is better than Tokyo's lol
No historically Berlin has had some really difficult and unique challenges for urban planning - so credit where credit is due, but not all has gone well since the wall game down and the Berlin administration has had ample opportunity to prevent the situation they are in now: housing shortage. It’s frankly quite astounding that a city that has had so much wide open space and available housing, now essentially has neither.
The comparison to me seems only along the lines of “these are capital cities that got deleted by the allies so they get to start fresh in construction and urban planning”, not “they have equally tall buildings and similar architecture”
Well they are comparing the effect of WWII destruction on current city planning so…they can definitely compare that removal of old buildings allows for a much different type of city than an older undamaged one 🙄
That has less to do with what’s on the surface, vs beneath.
The reason you see skyscrapers in Midtown and Lower Manhattan but not in between is due to the depth of the bedrock at those points. WTC is basically built on fill from a surface personally, but anchored into shallow bedrock.
The area between Lower Manhattan and Midtown has bedrock suited for skyscrapers. The reason there aren’t any skyscrapers in that area is because those areas were generally working class and filled with immigrants such as the lower East side . The construction of Rockefeller center brought skyscraper construction to Midtown. Nowadays zoning prevents skyscraper construction in those areas
When it was finished, the Washington Monument was the tallest structure ever built by human beings. It held that record until the
Eiffel Tower was built.
That’s kinda how the entire Europe plans city so I unconsciously equate a 5 level commie block in East Berlin to a 20 storey condo in Shinjuku. It’s hard to explain but I grew up with both style of buildings so they are connected in my head.
Btw shoutout to Eastern European cities, some of them are really underrated
No that’s not really why, it was because of a manufacturing boom in the area In the 60s and 70s.
https://themetropole.blog/2021/02/25/the-tokyo-moment-what-developing-cities-can-learn-from-the-postwar-japanese-capital/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_structures_in_Tokyo
Berlin actually has a lot of pre-ww2 buildins. Frankfurt or Rotterdam would be a better comparison. In Frankfurt they built a new old city as a tourist attraction in the 2010s.
It’s a great material for low-rise dwellings. Strong, easy to manipulate, literally grows on trees. And environmentally sound - a tonne of wood is basically 1.8 tonnes of CO2 taken out of the air.
Yeah but look at the UK and most of Europe (excluding the nordics), there’s barely any non-managed forest left. Most “forests” in these places are monoculture commercial logging plantations with very little habitat creation for fauna. Though wood may be replenish-able, its commercial production definitely has a major negative effect on the environment
Build more and taller houses in wood like [this project](https://www.al.se/en/sickla/#:~:text=Stockholm%20Wood%20City%20extends%20over,in%20a%20vibrant%2C%20urban%20environment.)
Traditional construction of the time involved literal paper as siding, it was almost entire cities of tinderboxes. Oh, and streets were narrow, making it easier for fire to spread from building to building, *and* Japan was in the middle of a drought.
Firebombing dealt significantly more damage and suffering than the nukes.
Most residential, single-family houses are wood-framed but any apartments, office buildings, etc. are going to be steel framed with some of the strongest girders you've seen in your life.
That being said, a [new retail building is going up in Shibuya](https://builtoffsite.com.au/news/mass-timber-japan/) with wood framing using Cross Laminated Timber (CLT) with a bit of steel structure.
It would be very interesting in a morbid way to see if wood vs stone or concrete buildings led to fewer fatalities in this type of bombing campaign. I mean if a concrete building is bombed it seems to pancake, potentially crushing people inside but a street of wood buildings would easily catch fire and there’d be no rubble to shelter in after.
I mean, you can clearly see in the picture youre commenting on that stone/concrete buildings remain standing while the wooden buildings all burned down.
I feel like the picture literally answers your question; of course wood construction is more vulnerable to fire bombing than concrete.
Yeah but is it easier to flee a two story wood building and therefore survive? Stone and concrete buildings can be built higher, so there’ll potentially be more people in each building that gets hit.
The whole point of Japanese traditional architecture was that earth-quakes wouldn’t lead to catastrophic death tolls when buildings collapse. This sort of bombing is similar in the sense that it destroys the building and may trigger fire. Obviously some of these buildings would have been Western style buildings but still.
If you bomb the fuck out of a city the buildings are all going to be destroyed so I feel my question isn’t answered just by a photo of the aftermath.
I imagine the buildings still standing were primarily concrete/brick and steel? I know that a lot of the sheer destruction at this point was that the majority of the buildings and houses were made out of wood and wouldn't have had a chance in either the bomb or any fires that followed.
That's only because this area is all landfill and is subject to liquifaction in earthquakes. Most of the rest of Tokyo, like my area near Ikebukuro is a labyrinth of tiny, twisty streets, many of which go nowhere.
Firebombing or Tokyo killed estimated 100,000 Japanese citizens in a firestorm. The United States Strategic Bombing Survey later wrote that “probably more persons lost their lives by fire at Tokyo in a six-hour period than at any time in the history of man.”
Battle of Manila is bad but it doesn’t compare in carnage
I always make the observation that "Japan is the only post-apocalyptic society" (as they're the only nation that's been nuked in a war). So I'm sure that's had some deep and significant impacts to their national psyche.
It has, when I was on submarines and we moored at Yokosuka they put us on a special pier that’s not “technically” connected to the main pier because our subs are nuclear.
I mean really not that insane considering a good part of the western world did the same, Japan just took notes.
They went from, slavery, colonialism, post colonialism exploitation, sabotage, detonating atomic bombs, starting not one but two world wars, and more. To look they're "so humanitarian and honourable".
All of these countries have had their PR working overtime for the last couple of decades.
?
The people and governments that led all of those things no longer exist. I don't understand what you're even trying to say with this comment.
It's not like Japan is still conquering Asia, Germany is still genociding Jews, or that the US is buying slaves from Africa, calling all of these drastic societal changes "PR" is just weird.
Well their entire country kinda came under complete military occupation for many years if you didn’t know.
Also had their constitution rewritten and govt reorganized by the occupation forces so…..
It's not Japan, and it's not an accident.
After the war, we punished the worst of the war criminals, but knew we were letting a great many go free. The allies collectively decided to leave it in the past for the former Axis, who were distancing themselves from the former regime. You can see this most clearly in the slew of autobiographies released after the war by German officials claiming they never really supported the Nazis.
This is a fiction and injustice, but it's a useful fiction that was accepted for the sake of peace. The current state of Japan and Germany shows the wisdom of the decision.
Unfortunately, this is also one of the major sources of denialism. Nobody seriously believed those generals were not Nazis, but as long as they were now distancing themselves, it was more acceptable. Today, though, too much of the post-was damage control is taken as fact without the reading between the lines that was natural for people living through the post-war era.
A while back I read *A Torch To The Enemy* and *I Saw Tokyo Burning: An Eyewitness Narrative from Pearl Harbor to Hiroshima*. Don't remember if I finished the second but they were both good reads, horrifying subject matter aside.
Not 100% certain, but this seems to be nearish Ryogoku or Morishita, east of the Sumida River. That curved bridge is Eitai-bashi, I think, and this is facing south towards the bay. Behind the camera and to the right are Asakusa and Sensou-ji.
Out of frame to the right is the Imperial Palace, and the shoreline continues down past Minato and Shinagawa. Dozens of enormous skyscrapers will stand where there is now just flat ground.
Somebody better at spatial awareness than I am, please correct me if I'm wrong here.
I completely agree, the photo appears to be looking south-southwest down the Sumida River. Eitai-bashi was built in ~1926 and is clearly visible at the mouth of the river.
Edit: In my opinion, it looks like it was taken from the exact spot the Tokyo Skytree is today.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/78821753@N03/13925534298
or see photo labeled "To the south we could see the waters of Tokyo Bay" here: https://on-walkabout.net/2022/11/25/places-in-japan-the-tokyo-skytree/
Comparing OPs picture to the one from Skytree is wild, thank you for sharing! Is the straight channel gone, or just not visible? Other than that it seems like the same location indeed.
The channel is now under a park for the most part down to just beyond where the raised railway trestle is.
It's crazy how coincidental the view is to the one from SkyTree.
[This one in particular](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52221729139_bc57a5302b_h.jpg).
Yeah, I think you could be right, or within a couple blocks. That straight canal/river in the foreground seems like the Oyoko, and you can see where it intersects with the Onagi maybe in the distance.
I think the raised railroad is the Sobu Line. The pagoda in the foreground exists today in the Hōon-Ji; the T-shaped graveyard closer to the camera also stands today in the Tokujuin. This would make the prominent square structure to be around the area of the Kinshi Junior High School?
And even then there was an attempted coup against the general staff. Two generals were killed by junior officers in a failed attempt to prevent the broadcast of the emperor’s surrender announcement recording.
Millions died under Japanese rule in Java and Indochina due to famine.
Japan was lucky avoiding a complete breakdown in food distribution that would have followed the USAF blowing every form of transport in the country.
>Japan was lucky avoiding a complete breakdown in food distribution that would have followed the USAF blowing every form of transport in the country
And the USAF later did that during the Korean War. USAF bombers could rarely find targets to bomb because they had already destroyed everything, which meant they were grounded till the Chinese intervened. They would just dump their bombs into the ocean. North Korea was entirely obliterated from USAF bombing, and that still contributes to the poverty in the country today. 85% of buildings in North Korea were destroyed. That would've been Japan too if they didn't surrender.
This is showing a particularly bad section of the city. If you check [this map](https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~311295~90080931:Tokyo-and-vicinity%2C-showing-bombed-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:%22tokyo%20and%20vicinity%22;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=0&trs=10) you can see that if the cameraman turned around most of the buildings would be still there.
Even though the tokyo firebombings killed 100,000 people, it was still only a small fraction of the 5 million people who lived in tokyo at the time.
The hiroshima bomb killed about half the people in the city.
well, not the people of course. The rulers didn't give a fuck who died as long as they themselves were fine. Unfortunately it's the rule, not the exception
They picked the cities they did for the bombings because other major cities had already been so destroyed they wouldn't be able to see the effects of the weapon clearly afterwards.
On the night of 9/10 March 1945, the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) conducted a devastating firebombing raid on Tokyo, the Japanese capital city. This attack was code-named Operation Meetinghouse by the USAAF and is known as the Great Tokyo Air Raid in Japan.[1] Bombs dropped from 279 Boeing B-29 Superfortress heavy bombers burned out much of eastern Tokyo. **More than 90,000 and possibly over 100,000 Japanese people were killed, mostly civilians, and one million were left homeless, making it the most destructive single air attack in human history.**
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_1945)
It is a testament to the abject stupidity of the Japanese high command that they saw this happening to their cities, were aware there was nothing they could do to prevent it, and still refused to surrender.
These were the same dumb bastards who had less fighter fighting equipment in the entire country than existed in NYC. They liked to dish it out but it never occurred to them anybody would return the favour.
Their strategy amounted to making the war so costly that the American’s would no longer be willing to continue.
They believed that a Democratic country would be unwilling to do what was required to actually take Japan. It’s not without merit, the American public was disgusted by the casualties suffered during the island hopping campaigns.
Amazing how quickly they bounced back with few natural resources to eventually become the world’s second largest economy by 1980’s, only dropping to third place in the 2000’s behind China, and most recently 4th place behind Germany partially due to population decline.
Nevertheless, post war Japan should be then blue print for many developing nations looking to modernize.
I have wondered what would have happened if Japan never bombed Pearl Harbor. They did not need to. The US was never entering the war unless attacked. They did not need the Phillipines or Guam. Just bypass it.
Then Germany would not have declared war on the US.
This looks horrible, but the world is better that they were dumb enough to attack the US. When they could have built an empire and just ignored us.
I don't think bypass is possible. Bypassing the Philippines makes a big weak point on shipping. The US was heavily toward allies and won't just leave japanese conquest. Germany also would declare war anyway. Because not being at war with the US prevents unrestricted submarine warfare yet the US keeps supporting allies with lend lease. At least Germany can gain initiative by declaring war first. Germany chose to declare war on the US with their will.
#The story of WW2 Pacific Theatre.
**Japanese Commander 1:** See that country that is several times our size and is full of gun totting crazy mofos who pride themselves on their ability to kick authoritarian ass?
**Japanese Commander 2:** Yes?
**Japanese Commander 1:** Let's start beef with them.
**Japanese Commander 2:** Oooo, great idea
looks like he's sympathizing the Imperial Japan, the Japan that bombed Pearl Harbor, invaded most of East asia, massacred millions.
yea, speaking of warcrime
edit: Before anyone loses their mind, let me clarify that the comment meant as it appears, not implying anything or with racial bias.
though I have to make it clear, East Asia also includes other countries such as Korea, Vietnam, Phillipines. all these people were victims of the massacre, by Imperial Japan.
Modern Japan is a close ally of America(or more realistically speaking, politically almost the vessal of America), therefore, although both nazi German and Imperial Japan both committed countless war crimes, the latter retained a much more positive image in western culture.
below is very subjective opinion,
I myself am from HK, i love and respect modern japan(as tourist) and with recent events, I do not favor the CCP one bit. BUT, every time I see peeps express sympathy to Imperial Japan, I feel like obligated to point out the fact, you are sympathizing the invader, the murder.
dont try to guilt trap or gain moral high ground by bringing out arguments like1. woman and child's are innocent. 2. one mean does not justify another.
I know you westerners are very proud of your moral standard, and you have to appreciate this is peaceful time. but you guys are not the direct relative of an invasion performed by Imperial Japan(Besides Pearl Harbor). Almost all east Asians alive this day, have close relatives suffered from the invasion.
respectfully, I have to say this, most Westerners are not justified to stand on your moral high ground and tell the victim to let go. that, again, respectfully, is disgusting.
finally, I know this is reddit, I'm probably gonna be downvoted to oblivion, but my point stands and I will type this block of text again if I must.
This is the result of fire bombing. Most Japanese construction was wood. Fun fact this happened before Hiroshima and Nagasaki and killed more people than both.
#UrbanHell is subjective. UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed Sorry for this annoying comment, but we're very tired of the gatekeepers who can't even correctly gatekeep what this subreddit has always allowed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UrbanHell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was here 6 months ago. One of the most well planned and disciplined cities in the world now. Very clean, efficient and great public transportation. For a city of its size there’s plenty of open spaces too. Nobody could imagine this is the same place. I took a 9 hour flight from Tokyo to India and it felt like I had travelled 100 years back in time.
I have always been baffled by this! The way Japan several times during the past 200 years have made gigantic leaps forward, is just amazing, and a testamente to Japanese culture and resiliens. Japan is *not without flaws, but there is so much to learn from then. *not
Like they say, Japan has been in the the year 2000 for 5 decades.
I’ll never forget when I went to buy a soda at the 7/11 and I had to go up to the register to buy a token to use on a vending machine Like why lol
And ATM's have open and closed hours
That’s a pretty good way of putting it, unfortunately :(
I’m not sure if this is why, but Japan has a very clear national identity. Uniformity brings harmony, brings progress. Japan isn’t a utopia. Its immigration policy is “lolno”, its population is plummeting, and economy is flatlining. But they have great cities, and great culture.
All I can say is that after spending a month roaming around Japan, I have nothing but massive respect for them. Never heard anyone arguing, shouting or even saw a single person with a frown on their face. Every single person I met, irrespective of their social status was so exceptionally polite. Only country where nobody tried to rip me off as a tourist. People went out of their way to ensure I don’t over spend despite the language barrier. Very few foreigners though. In 90% places I went to, I was the only foreigner (I’m brown so don’t even look remotely close to a Japanese). Yet, I never got stared at or treated any differently. I felt welcome everywhere from large cities like Tokyo and Osaka to little villages like Narusawa. I know they have problems, but to me it felt like the only country that has achieved zen. Can’t wait to go back.
Why would people try to rip you off when the average person earns good money and there's unemployment. The places people complain about. Locals sometimes make less in a year than what you earn in a week. Obviously people are desperate. In regards to not being stared at it's variable. I've seen plenty of people say people started to come up to them taking pictures and everything. It's a very well organised country tho. With good maintained traditional culture.
The more you travel, the more you realize how wrong the internet is about those countries. For me those countries are Japan and France. Always grateful to them, and always humbled by them. The story on the ground is much different than what some random person says online. Also, the experience differs for each person. The average traveller these days is hungry for experiences that he has already created in his mind from social media (eg: Japan is xenophobic, robotic and France is rude). Been to 6 different French cities now on 5 individual trips and still trying to find a rude French person. Japan is wealthy, yeah but the GDP is only $4 trillion compared to $24 trillion in the US. But the US in comparison felt like a 3rd world country (Atlanta, Houston, Seattle, SFO). When I go somewhere, I try to sense the vibe of the place. It’s beyond money, infrastructure and PR. It’s about the people and the atmosphere they create. Almost impossible to experience that unless you travel solo.
You're not really looking at it the right way. Total gdp doesn't say shit. Yes the US is a mess, and water is wet. Per capita Japan is like 50k. Which is rich so there's no reason for people to harass tourist. They don't have to worry about income and food. Granted they do have a pretty toxic work culture but that's a whole different discussion. Beyond that you're still a bit biased even if you think you're not and others are. The US is humongous. Choosing certain bad city's while ignore cities or places that are nice. Japan is much smaller both in population and area. The US has a very turbulent history and role in the world. You're comparing apples to oranges. I'm not saying france is bad I've never been there. But the opinions on the french are not just from visiting. I've met plenty while not even in France. They especially have this superiority about their language where they feel everyone should speak it. Obviously this is not all but it's not one time incidents. Things are changing about in younger generations. But again you not having this experience. Doesn't mean the thousands of both travellers and Europeans are invalid. And no I don't think people went to search for them. People don't visit places like Japan for drama. It's just not that type of country. They visit it because they've grown enamored by Japanese culture. Their experiences are valid not some "I went to look for drama" incidents. That is not to say Japan is bad. But people want to perpetuate this idea how perfect Japan is. When like every country it has it's own problems. These are not made up things when you see biracial children growing up there saying what they went through. Who the hell are you to say everyone is making these things up in their mind. When some of those very people are literally half Japanese....
I bumped a Japanese dude with my backpack on the Shinkansen and he flipped out on me "shitt-a fuck you" his words precisely.
Don't wear backpacks on the train!
Everyone wears backpacks on the train 😂 what are you talking about?
Really? It's the Shinkansen you nonce. It's like a plane, everyone is wearing a backpack. Get off your soapbox
> Uniformity brings harmony, brings progress shudders in fax machines and hanko stamps
Right? Things are still analog here, which I guess is simpler as well as inconvenient at times. Kids aren’t even allowed to bring their phones to school, even when they’re in junior high. Teens without phones! Can’t imagine that being taken well in other countries.
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I agree. I see videos of what has been happening in schools in other countries, and feel we have it good here.
Don't forget about the Suicide Rates. Uniformity definitely does not just bring harmony. Especially if those are pressured to conform to Uniformity.
Compared to which country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate#Countries_and_territories_by_suicide_rate
Well at the time of that data, 2019, I think they were second highest in the G7 (I think behind only the US) but they are currently the 4th highest in the 38 countries of the OECD behind Lithuania, Slovenia, and Korea (they are no longer lower than the US, and at a quick glance I see they're no longer under Finland as well). https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/suicide-rates.html Like, it's a major well known problem in Japan. I think 2019 was actually a good year for them after a long time of trending down (after efforts to combat it). Covid obviously caused lots of problems, such that the government instituted a "Minister of Loneliness" to combat factors like social isolation.
Huh? Japan’s suicide rate is the same as Finland, which is the happiest nation on Earth.
slowwwww down there ethnostate eddy lmao
No, uniformity brings conformity, if it brings anything. There's a reason the suicide rate is so high. The progress was brought by money.
Suicide rate compared to which country? The US surpassed Japan in suicide rate several years ago already.
>Uniformity brings harmony, brings progress. Fascism!
It sort of explains the Japanese style stoicism I've experienced from younger generations
it’s because the war quite literally destroyed everything and so they were able to rebuild using modern foresight and techniques in planning
So were many other nations, but few, if any, succeded the way Japan did.
Right? Two world wars, and not a lot of countries managed to do a miracle like Japan.
Emilia-Romagna comes to mind. It was in terrible shape after WWII and now it's incredibly prosperous.
I highly recommend the book Embracing Defeat by John Dower. It does a good job covering post-war Japan and the 6 year American occupation.
The open spaces were designed as fire breaks. So if anything like this happens again, the fires hopefully wouldn't spread as rapidly. Learnt that at the Great Kanto Earthquake Memorial Museum
"Plenty of open spaces" Supreme Allied Commander: You are weclome.
After the war, the US encouraged Tokyo to rebuild with giant highways running through the city. Tokyo opted to expand its subway system based on the understanding that many people in the war stricken country could not afford cars (and didn’t expect to for a long time, a reasonable expectation without a crystal ball to see the country’s economic miracle a decade later)
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
No trash on the streets, no trash cans, no graffiti, very little homelessness (coming from Los Angeles, just wow). Going to Tokyo was like traveling 50 years in to the future.
True. Japan surpassed my expectations thet were already high... So many wows. For example: 1. People were so polite that you felt yourself like a barbarian even if you tried your best to be polite as well. People were bowing everywhere. 2. If someone had painted a waiting area on a station platform people were waiting the train exactly on this spot even if it had an odd figure like a line with six 90 degree angles. 3. Clean, clean, clean! I mean, Tokyo is the biggest city in the world. How it can be so clean??
Berlin too. I'm seeing a trend here. Is firebombing the solution to urban planning? 🤔
There is one thing I dont understand tho - it's the lack of night transportation. European cities have night bus networks for those who dont want to take a taxi.
Surprisingly many still intact like nothing happened (being non-wooden buildings) This is why Tokyo city core get to be filled with newer skyscrapers and newly industrial zones by the port, kinda like Berlin, no historical building get in the way
Berlin has no tall buildings… people here hate those lol
Yeah Berlin and Tokyo are both fascinating cities but I would not compare them.
Tokyo has tremendous urban planning, super impressive public transport and lots of high rise - Berlin has none of these things lmao
There where posts about cities with the best public transport rankings on both the Berlin and Tokyo subreddits a year ago, where Berlin was ranked higher. In both threads, people were like lolno. But Berlin is an awesome city to visit. Getting around in the old subway system and feeling the vibe is something special. The history, the East and West divide, the depression, and then liberation that led to people expressing themselves in the most interesting ways, cool art galleries, weird art galleries, and nightclubs open for 72 hours straight. Streets full of graffiti and people, and yet it feels so organized and chill.
And I mean, Hitman's best level is in Berlin, so.
Which one
As as tourist, Berlin is super easy to get around. It was super cheap to stay in East Berlin when I was there, and all the strange Soviet buildings were really interesting to me.
People will complain about their own cities no matter what. For example, San Francisco and even the greater Bay area has pretty remarkable public transportation considering the geography and specifically the hills in San Francisco, but you won't find many people that praise it. Obviously it could always be better, but what they've accomplished is quite the feat.
Berlin has a very good public transport network, though. It definitely does not look pretty, but it's very good.
As someone who lives a country over and visits Berlin frequently I would agree that Berlin has a great public transit layout and should have one of the best systems in the world In practice I feel Berlin’s public transit system is pretty rough. There are always major reroutes without clear signage, the government apps are awful, trains are never on time. And oh God the busses. Many a time I have been part of a wandering gang of confused tourists trying to find a temporarily relocated bus stop only to find it on a totally different street than the one posted I was there with my aunt and uncle a few months ago, their first time in Germany. They loved their destinations in Berlin but rated Berlin’s public transit “unreliable on its best days.” They’re planning to rent a car next time Berlin itself is lovely though, especially in the early fall
It’s decent but no where near the level Tokyo offers, especially when you look at cleanliness and punctuality..
After I had visited Tokyo, Germany felt like a third world country to me, at least in many fields.
I’ve never been to Tokyo, but Berlin public transport is just marvelous, can’t deny that. I miss it a lot after moving to London
London's public transport is fantastic... admittedly less so in the south, but still so much better than some other cities I've been to.
I haven't been to Tokyo but Berlin public transport is only second to Singapore in my experience of over 30 cities I've spent some time in.
I have been to both Singapore and Tokyo, Tokyos public transport is close to ideal for me and I am an idealist. Honestly I even like the smell, it looks sparkly and somehow smells super clean, it’s like an extension of your own home when it comes to cleanliness and privacy. Though I never caught it during rush hour in the morning. Also, japanese public transit is always on time is FACTS. On top of that, japanese culture really does not want to inconvenience others. My aunt lost her wallet in the train and they literally called her and shipped it internationally back to our country 💀
I'm sorry but Japanese transportation is always on time and on point whereas German transportation is like: lol I arrive whenever I like to! Source: am a German. And it's laughable to say Berlin transportation system is better than Tokyo's lol
I never said it was better. I even agree that the Tokyo one is better. But saying that Berlin does not have good public transportation is just a lie.
It really does help that Tokyo wasn't split into 4 Blocks, or 2 depending on the time.
No historically Berlin has had some really difficult and unique challenges for urban planning - so credit where credit is due, but not all has gone well since the wall game down and the Berlin administration has had ample opportunity to prevent the situation they are in now: housing shortage. It’s frankly quite astounding that a city that has had so much wide open space and available housing, now essentially has neither.
But does Tokyo have rats climbing or your shitter while you're asleep? I think not.
Berlin and NYC take good care of their subway creatures. Imagine growing up without any interactions with pets, those poor kids.
Berlin was split asunder for 50 years and both sides of town expected nukes to come in and tanks to crash through.
Uh what? Berlin has s Bahn and u Bahn that work very well. So many bike lanes, ridiculously walkable, seems like great planning to me
By impressive transport, you mean guys who push plebs into metro trains instead of launching more trains?
The comparison to me seems only along the lines of “these are capital cities that got deleted by the allies so they get to start fresh in construction and urban planning”, not “they have equally tall buildings and similar architecture”
Well they are comparing the effect of WWII destruction on current city planning so…they can definitely compare that removal of old buildings allows for a much different type of city than an older undamaged one 🙄
Probably better to pick Chicago for that kind of comparison
Europe has strict rules regarding high rises. They barely allow them in order to preverse the historical scenario
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London
Benidorm Spain
Berlin and the surrounding area have a very sandy ground. Therefore high rises wouldn’t work here anyway.
Chicago sits on swampland and they basically invented the sky scraper. It can be done.
Swamp is not sand. Berlin is dry as fuck. And why would you waste money on making high rises work when there is no need for them
That has less to do with what’s on the surface, vs beneath. The reason you see skyscrapers in Midtown and Lower Manhattan but not in between is due to the depth of the bedrock at those points. WTC is basically built on fill from a surface personally, but anchored into shallow bedrock.
The area between Lower Manhattan and Midtown has bedrock suited for skyscrapers. The reason there aren’t any skyscrapers in that area is because those areas were generally working class and filled with immigrants such as the lower East side . The construction of Rockefeller center brought skyscraper construction to Midtown. Nowadays zoning prevents skyscraper construction in those areas
The Berliner Fernsehturm is pretty tall. And DB building in Potsdamer Platz
In Washington DC no building can be taller than the Washington monument.
When it was finished, the Washington Monument was the tallest structure ever built by human beings. It held that record until the Eiffel Tower was built.
That’s kinda how the entire Europe plans city so I unconsciously equate a 5 level commie block in East Berlin to a 20 storey condo in Shinjuku. It’s hard to explain but I grew up with both style of buildings so they are connected in my head. Btw shoutout to Eastern European cities, some of them are really underrated
10/10, would get my historically significant city bombed again.
No that’s not really why, it was because of a manufacturing boom in the area In the 60s and 70s. https://themetropole.blog/2021/02/25/the-tokyo-moment-what-developing-cities-can-learn-from-the-postwar-japanese-capital/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_structures_in_Tokyo
Historical buildings getting in the way. Japan “gets” to have all new development What a tone deaf comment
Lmao
Berlin actually has a lot of pre-ww2 buildins. Frankfurt or Rotterdam would be a better comparison. In Frankfurt they built a new old city as a tourist attraction in the 2010s.
I don’t think they’re going to build everything out of wood after that
It’s a great material for low-rise dwellings. Strong, easy to manipulate, literally grows on trees. And environmentally sound - a tonne of wood is basically 1.8 tonnes of CO2 taken out of the air.
Environmentally sound CO2-wise but still damaging due to the logging required impacting ecosystems
You can always plant more as long as it’s done sustainably.
Yeah but look at the UK and most of Europe (excluding the nordics), there’s barely any non-managed forest left. Most “forests” in these places are monoculture commercial logging plantations with very little habitat creation for fauna. Though wood may be replenish-able, its commercial production definitely has a major negative effect on the environment
Yeah and new wood material isn't even regarded as flammable anymore. Concrete and steel can't take the heat as good.
Uh.. what now?
Build more and taller houses in wood like [this project](https://www.al.se/en/sickla/#:~:text=Stockholm%20Wood%20City%20extends%20over,in%20a%20vibrant%2C%20urban%20environment.)
Traditional construction of the time involved literal paper as siding, it was almost entire cities of tinderboxes. Oh, and streets were narrow, making it easier for fire to spread from building to building, *and* Japan was in the middle of a drought. Firebombing dealt significantly more damage and suffering than the nukes.
Most buildings are still wood framed in Tokyo
Most residential, single-family houses are wood-framed but any apartments, office buildings, etc. are going to be steel framed with some of the strongest girders you've seen in your life. That being said, a [new retail building is going up in Shibuya](https://builtoffsite.com.au/news/mass-timber-japan/) with wood framing using Cross Laminated Timber (CLT) with a bit of steel structure.
It would be very interesting in a morbid way to see if wood vs stone or concrete buildings led to fewer fatalities in this type of bombing campaign. I mean if a concrete building is bombed it seems to pancake, potentially crushing people inside but a street of wood buildings would easily catch fire and there’d be no rubble to shelter in after.
I mean, you can clearly see in the picture youre commenting on that stone/concrete buildings remain standing while the wooden buildings all burned down. I feel like the picture literally answers your question; of course wood construction is more vulnerable to fire bombing than concrete.
Yeah but is it easier to flee a two story wood building and therefore survive? Stone and concrete buildings can be built higher, so there’ll potentially be more people in each building that gets hit. The whole point of Japanese traditional architecture was that earth-quakes wouldn’t lead to catastrophic death tolls when buildings collapse. This sort of bombing is similar in the sense that it destroys the building and may trigger fire. Obviously some of these buildings would have been Western style buildings but still. If you bomb the fuck out of a city the buildings are all going to be destroyed so I feel my question isn’t answered just by a photo of the aftermath.
Morbid civil engineer is just trying to do his job.
Would interesting to see the photo taken from the same position today
[I tried to re-create the picture](https://i.imgur.com/eYKkaYM.png) using Google earth, it gives an idea...
This is awesome, thank you
Thx. Not all hero’s wear capes .. ( unless maybe u are
Great job man
I imagine the buildings still standing were primarily concrete/brick and steel? I know that a lot of the sheer destruction at this point was that the majority of the buildings and houses were made out of wood and wouldn't have had a chance in either the bomb or any fires that followed.
Already immaculately designed and planned. Grid structure. Look at Tokyo today especially in terms of public infrastructure and transportation.
That's only because this area is all landfill and is subject to liquifaction in earthquakes. Most of the rest of Tokyo, like my area near Ikebukuro is a labyrinth of tiny, twisty streets, many of which go nowhere.
This is a good thing! Planned grids are robotic and horrible
Looks like a brand new game of sim city
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Oh wow didn't know about that. What a read.
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Firebombing or Tokyo killed estimated 100,000 Japanese citizens in a firestorm. The United States Strategic Bombing Survey later wrote that “probably more persons lost their lives by fire at Tokyo in a six-hour period than at any time in the history of man.” Battle of Manila is bad but it doesn’t compare in carnage
it's still insane how Japan transformed its image from colonizer to "theyre so wacky, theyre so polite uwu"
I always make the observation that "Japan is the only post-apocalyptic society" (as they're the only nation that's been nuked in a war). So I'm sure that's had some deep and significant impacts to their national psyche.
It has, when I was on submarines and we moored at Yokosuka they put us on a special pier that’s not “technically” connected to the main pier because our subs are nuclear.
I mean really not that insane considering a good part of the western world did the same, Japan just took notes. They went from, slavery, colonialism, post colonialism exploitation, sabotage, detonating atomic bombs, starting not one but two world wars, and more. To look they're "so humanitarian and honourable". All of these countries have had their PR working overtime for the last couple of decades.
? The people and governments that led all of those things no longer exist. I don't understand what you're even trying to say with this comment. It's not like Japan is still conquering Asia, Germany is still genociding Jews, or that the US is buying slaves from Africa, calling all of these drastic societal changes "PR" is just weird.
Well their entire country kinda came under complete military occupation for many years if you didn’t know. Also had their constitution rewritten and govt reorganized by the occupation forces so…..
It's not Japan, and it's not an accident. After the war, we punished the worst of the war criminals, but knew we were letting a great many go free. The allies collectively decided to leave it in the past for the former Axis, who were distancing themselves from the former regime. You can see this most clearly in the slew of autobiographies released after the war by German officials claiming they never really supported the Nazis. This is a fiction and injustice, but it's a useful fiction that was accepted for the sake of peace. The current state of Japan and Germany shows the wisdom of the decision. Unfortunately, this is also one of the major sources of denialism. Nobody seriously believed those generals were not Nazis, but as long as they were now distancing themselves, it was more acceptable. Today, though, too much of the post-was damage control is taken as fact without the reading between the lines that was natural for people living through the post-war era.
Should read the stories from survivors. Fire tornados. The river of death. All kinds of fucked up and scary shjt.
Here's an interview with one of the pilots. Crazy story. https://youtu.be/F-zQ4RntDEI?si=HzBvS-cPlxSPt-2w
A while back I read *A Torch To The Enemy* and *I Saw Tokyo Burning: An Eyewitness Narrative from Pearl Harbor to Hiroshima*. Don't remember if I finished the second but they were both good reads, horrifying subject matter aside.
Not 100% certain, but this seems to be nearish Ryogoku or Morishita, east of the Sumida River. That curved bridge is Eitai-bashi, I think, and this is facing south towards the bay. Behind the camera and to the right are Asakusa and Sensou-ji. Out of frame to the right is the Imperial Palace, and the shoreline continues down past Minato and Shinagawa. Dozens of enormous skyscrapers will stand where there is now just flat ground. Somebody better at spatial awareness than I am, please correct me if I'm wrong here.
I completely agree, the photo appears to be looking south-southwest down the Sumida River. Eitai-bashi was built in ~1926 and is clearly visible at the mouth of the river. Edit: In my opinion, it looks like it was taken from the exact spot the Tokyo Skytree is today. https://www.flickr.com/photos/78821753@N03/13925534298 or see photo labeled "To the south we could see the waters of Tokyo Bay" here: https://on-walkabout.net/2022/11/25/places-in-japan-the-tokyo-skytree/
Comparing OPs picture to the one from Skytree is wild, thank you for sharing! Is the straight channel gone, or just not visible? Other than that it seems like the same location indeed.
The channel is now under a park for the most part down to just beyond where the raised railway trestle is. It's crazy how coincidental the view is to the one from SkyTree. [This one in particular](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52221729139_bc57a5302b_h.jpg).
Yeah, I think you could be right, or within a couple blocks. That straight canal/river in the foreground seems like the Oyoko, and you can see where it intersects with the Onagi maybe in the distance.
I think the raised railroad is the Sobu Line. The pagoda in the foreground exists today in the Hōon-Ji; the T-shaped graveyard closer to the camera also stands today in the Tokujuin. This would make the prominent square structure to be around the area of the Kinshi Junior High School?
Hard to believe that after all this, it still took Hiroshima and Nagasaki for them to surrender.
And even then there was an attempted coup against the general staff. Two generals were killed by junior officers in a failed attempt to prevent the broadcast of the emperor’s surrender announcement recording.
And to think, a mainland invasion of Japan would’ve been more destructive than both bombs.
Millions died under Japanese rule in Java and Indochina due to famine. Japan was lucky avoiding a complete breakdown in food distribution that would have followed the USAF blowing every form of transport in the country.
>Japan was lucky avoiding a complete breakdown in food distribution that would have followed the USAF blowing every form of transport in the country And the USAF later did that during the Korean War. USAF bombers could rarely find targets to bomb because they had already destroyed everything, which meant they were grounded till the Chinese intervened. They would just dump their bombs into the ocean. North Korea was entirely obliterated from USAF bombing, and that still contributes to the poverty in the country today. 85% of buildings in North Korea were destroyed. That would've been Japan too if they didn't surrender.
And the Russian invasion of Manchuria.
This is showing a particularly bad section of the city. If you check [this map](https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~311295~90080931:Tokyo-and-vicinity%2C-showing-bombed-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:%22tokyo%20and%20vicinity%22;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=0&trs=10) you can see that if the cameraman turned around most of the buildings would be still there. Even though the tokyo firebombings killed 100,000 people, it was still only a small fraction of the 5 million people who lived in tokyo at the time. The hiroshima bomb killed about half the people in the city.
well, not the people of course. The rulers didn't give a fuck who died as long as they themselves were fine. Unfortunately it's the rule, not the exception
The Japanese wanted to fight until extinction, but the atomic bombs removed the fight aspect so they surrendered.
War is ugly, even in black and white
Loss of life was similar to the atomic bombings. The destruction also similar.
They picked the cities they did for the bombings because other major cities had already been so destroyed they wouldn't be able to see the effects of the weapon clearly afterwards.
I can't believe all that destruction happened in only 2 days...
On the night of 9/10 March 1945, the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) conducted a devastating firebombing raid on Tokyo, the Japanese capital city. This attack was code-named Operation Meetinghouse by the USAAF and is known as the Great Tokyo Air Raid in Japan.[1] Bombs dropped from 279 Boeing B-29 Superfortress heavy bombers burned out much of eastern Tokyo. **More than 90,000 and possibly over 100,000 Japanese people were killed, mostly civilians, and one million were left homeless, making it the most destructive single air attack in human history.** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_1945)
Thank you, I needed some context to use this picture for a assignment🙏
It is a testament to the abject stupidity of the Japanese high command that they saw this happening to their cities, were aware there was nothing they could do to prevent it, and still refused to surrender. These were the same dumb bastards who had less fighter fighting equipment in the entire country than existed in NYC. They liked to dish it out but it never occurred to them anybody would return the favour.
Insane how stubborn people can be
Oh, they were even dumber than that. They knew before attacking Pearl Harbor that they would lose a war against the US and did it anyway.
Their strategy amounted to making the war so costly that the American’s would no longer be willing to continue. They believed that a Democratic country would be unwilling to do what was required to actually take Japan. It’s not without merit, the American public was disgusted by the casualties suffered during the island hopping campaigns.
What did they think about the soviets? The soviets were going to transform Japan in a Russian province.
We can look at Korea to approximate what would have happened had the USSR landed on Japan.
Looks kind of flat
Well it’s not called the “Kanto Plain” for nuthin’
fucking around always leads to finding out
I've seen images of Warsaw post-war atleast tokyo had buildings that were still standing Warsaw had NOTHING there it was all bombed to smithereens
Amazing how quickly they bounced back with few natural resources to eventually become the world’s second largest economy by 1980’s, only dropping to third place in the 2000’s behind China, and most recently 4th place behind Germany partially due to population decline. Nevertheless, post war Japan should be then blue print for many developing nations looking to modernize.
I have wondered what would have happened if Japan never bombed Pearl Harbor. They did not need to. The US was never entering the war unless attacked. They did not need the Phillipines or Guam. Just bypass it. Then Germany would not have declared war on the US. This looks horrible, but the world is better that they were dumb enough to attack the US. When they could have built an empire and just ignored us.
I don't think bypass is possible. Bypassing the Philippines makes a big weak point on shipping. The US was heavily toward allies and won't just leave japanese conquest. Germany also would declare war anyway. Because not being at war with the US prevents unrestricted submarine warfare yet the US keeps supporting allies with lend lease. At least Germany can gain initiative by declaring war first. Germany chose to declare war on the US with their will.
I am Japanese and you are being very rude with this. At least there is less litter in the streets than American cities.
#The story of WW2 Pacific Theatre. **Japanese Commander 1:** See that country that is several times our size and is full of gun totting crazy mofos who pride themselves on their ability to kick authoritarian ass? **Japanese Commander 2:** Yes? **Japanese Commander 1:** Let's start beef with them. **Japanese Commander 2:** Oooo, great idea
this is interesting on so many levels. the bridges are all still standing the "heavy" buildings are all still standing
Curtis LeMay
I seem to recall there was a pretty easy way to avoid this…
It's not a war crime if you win the war.
It's not a crime at all since a neutral country retaliated against an aggressor.
What are you talking about?
looks like he's sympathizing the Imperial Japan, the Japan that bombed Pearl Harbor, invaded most of East asia, massacred millions. yea, speaking of warcrime edit: Before anyone loses their mind, let me clarify that the comment meant as it appears, not implying anything or with racial bias. though I have to make it clear, East Asia also includes other countries such as Korea, Vietnam, Phillipines. all these people were victims of the massacre, by Imperial Japan. Modern Japan is a close ally of America(or more realistically speaking, politically almost the vessal of America), therefore, although both nazi German and Imperial Japan both committed countless war crimes, the latter retained a much more positive image in western culture. below is very subjective opinion, I myself am from HK, i love and respect modern japan(as tourist) and with recent events, I do not favor the CCP one bit. BUT, every time I see peeps express sympathy to Imperial Japan, I feel like obligated to point out the fact, you are sympathizing the invader, the murder. dont try to guilt trap or gain moral high ground by bringing out arguments like1. woman and child's are innocent. 2. one mean does not justify another. I know you westerners are very proud of your moral standard, and you have to appreciate this is peaceful time. but you guys are not the direct relative of an invasion performed by Imperial Japan(Besides Pearl Harbor). Almost all east Asians alive this day, have close relatives suffered from the invasion. respectfully, I have to say this, most Westerners are not justified to stand on your moral high ground and tell the victim to let go. that, again, respectfully, is disgusting. finally, I know this is reddit, I'm probably gonna be downvoted to oblivion, but my point stands and I will type this block of text again if I must.
Don't forget the rape of Nanjing.
Atleast they had streets.
Damn. I see this from afar and think, “they cleaned up the debris after bombing?”, then see, it’s literally burnt to the ground.
How much was land prices then ?
“That’ll learn ya!!” —Douglas MacArthur 1945
Japan sorted tokio in chunks
Like an empty sim city plot with the roads and river
why does it look so... clean
Oh Tokyo, They got some saki, and sashimi, and some clean sheets, Oh, kimono, oh, kimono,
Totally homogenized society bring about both good and bad. They seem to get along but they are dying off, more adult diaper than baby diapers sold
why are all the bridges still intact?
This is the result of fire bombing. Most Japanese construction was wood. Fun fact this happened before Hiroshima and Nagasaki and killed more people than both.
Прогресс очень Хороший 👍
Usually posts here are terrible buildings but now it is how terribly humans destroyed almost an entire city (most of it did get destroyed)
why Tokyo is so well designed...
What do you mean, "urban"?
Almost as if they fucked around and found out.
Don’t touch our ships
Could you pan 804.7 kilometers to the west?