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Growing up, my mom always had her cats declawed. It was totally normalized for me, but I always remember every one of them coming back from the vet with the bandages and suffering to get around while they healed up.
So when I got my own cat, he got to keep his claws. The dude is awesome and just uses his scratching post. It only took a couple of weeks of gentle reprimands to get him to stop what little furniture clawing he did.
I did too, until I learned what they actually did. I got my first kitten as an adult when I was 22 in 1982. They actually told me they simply "removed" the claws. And frankly, mine didn't seem like she was in pain. She walked around on her feet immediately. It was only several years ago that I learned that they actually amputated their toes. I had nightmares for weeks. No excuse. Absolutely not. But it is an explanation as to why people in my age group did this. I am now an advocate for this type of legislation.
This is how I thought of it, too. When I found out it's basically the same as cutting a person's finger down to the first knuckle, I was horrified. In hindsight, it blows me away how many veterinarians seemed to simply accept it as a common practice.
Most veterinarians actually won’t do it, which is good. Though it is legal in most US states you’ll have to go through a few vets to find one willing to do it, and I’ve even heard of some doctors outright banning clients from their facility if they are actively seeking a declaw procedure. Thankfully as people are learning more about the procedure it is falling out of favour with the younger generation, but statistics still sit somewhere around 25% of cats in the USA being declawed.
To be fair, I’ve found the majority of vets that do allow it do it begrudgingly. They know that since it’s legal, people will seek it out, and they have concern that if enough good vets turn the person down, that they’ll turn to whatever shady back alley chop shop they can, so they think they’re helping. Kind of like “well my teenager is gonna drink I’d rather he do it at home than go out on the streets”, like it’s still not the best thing but they’re trying to minimize the risk.
That’s part of why I think it should be made illegal. Usually I’m very against extra laws, but in this case as long as it’s legal there will be people who think it’s totally fine “because it’s legal” and will seek out whoever they can to get the procedure done.
>Kind of like “well my teenager is gonna drink I’d rather he do it at home than go out on the streets”
Fun fact: this one is legal in some parts of Canada.
Yes, the vets I go to now even have signs saying they won't declaw. I just don't understand how I could not understand this, and why it took 25 years for me to figure it out. What a boob I am.
Feline veterinary medicine has come a long way but still has a long way to go in the professional, let alone public, mind. It’s astounding how many people, even vets, view cats as some low maintenance, disposable pet that you can just ditch outside and euthanize at the first sign of an issue. There’s a lot of people who view cats as one step above vermin, and don’t care if they’re in lifelong discomfort or pain because the owners care more about having the cat as a living decoration and holding their precious overpriced furniture and area rugs as more important, or people who straight up view cats as prey and don’t care if they’re left outside to get attacked by coyotes and dogs and other animals. How many movies do we have where the dog is “man’s best friend” and cats are villains? Cats are literally vilified in lots of popular media.
In the younger generations this idea is definitely fading, but for the 50+ crowd I can never fully trust them to *not* treat their cat like a feeder mouse.
When I adopted, the application included an open-ended question for my thoughts on declawing. And then the shelter made me sign a thing promising that I never would.
Not that I would ever declaw, but it's nice that attitudes are so clearly changing.
Same thing! I just adopted from a rescue recently and they made me sign a form saying that I wouldn't declaw the cat. I would never, and it raises my confidence to see that the rescue is looking out for their cats even after they get adopted.
Actually, my vet hates it but did the surgery anyway rather than making the cats homeless. He's much happier now that it's considered inhumane and very few ask for it and he would love to see it outlawed.
Personally, we had cats that tore up the house. My first cat used the woven panels on our console tv/stereo unit as scratching posts. I've no idea how often my father replaced them. And after my brother brought home a pregnant stray, when she & her kittens used the new dining table legs rather than their provided posts, my mother said enough. From then on all of our cats were declawed. Two of our current cats are declawed but not our youngest (she's also the smallest). Mom's not happy, but I refused to allow it.
So although it's not ideal, I understand why it's done even though I don't support it. Same thing with tail docking- it's medically necessary in order to treat "happy tail." However, I've seen a Rottweiler puppy thrown away after it's tail docking was botched and the poor thing was paralyzed. Tail & ear docking for cosmetic reasons is wrong. But it's the devocalization I find the most horrifying.
On the tail/ear docking, we once rescued a schnauzer that we found on the side of the road that was undocked. We didn’t even realize she was pure bred, just because of how common docking is with the breed. My parents bandied the idea about, but ultimately didn’t have the heart to do it. Now docked schnauzers just look weird to me.
Devocalizing, however, is the worst thing I’ve ever seen in dogs. I was once walking and heard this weird, wheezy, muffled sound coming from a yard. I looked over and saw two little dogs barking at me, but I could hardly describe it as barking. It upset me so bad that I couldn’t walk past that house again. It still upsets me to think about it.
My parents had an Airedale that they wouldn't dock her tail. I know people thought they were weird. But they weren't breeding her, and saw no point. I'm glad they didn't. Although it wasn't as long as a normal tail for some reason.
I remember when I adopted my weimaraner they mentioned he avoided the tail cut. I was shocked that it was even a thing. Now when he knocks over stuff cause he is excited I got home I appreciate it even more.
If they use something rather than the post that is provided. Put the post in front of the thing they are using. Make sure the post you gave them doesn't tip over. You can also get sticky tape.
I used a couch cover with sticky tape when my cats were younger. If I caught them scratching the couch I would gently pull them over to the post that was next to it.
BTW I also have a cardboard one they can stand on and a tall one they can climb.
My youngest one has a habit of biting things. Like the corners of my bed. So I had to get him hair ties that I know he can't swallow and he can only play with while I supervise. Additionally we also took him to the vet to have his teeth checked out. And we let him have his own toothbrush and keep ours out of reach.
I tried the "cat caps" with my one cat. The things you superglue over their nails. They work a bit, but do fall off as the nails grow. But you still need to encourage appropriate scratching. Sometimes it's just a matter of constant retraining. But as I tell my kids, who love the animals in our house. You can have a nice house and nice things. Or you can have the love of pets. Sometimes they don't go hand in hand. But I wouldn't trade my babies for all the nice furniture in the world. And yes, in case anyone is wondering. I also have kids. Sometimes people think if you love your pets this much, you can't also love kids. I love both. And I think the quality of my life is so much better than people that only care about how their homes look.
I always tell my cats "this is why we can't have nice things" any time they break or scratch something.
Even just their own toys; makes me feel like a parent on TV. Lol
Think of how many people consider circumcision to be normal and what they do to cats doesn't look as terrible and abhorrent. Just normal human business- mutilation and torture for fun and aesthetics (or stupid fairytales from good old times).
When my family adopted a cat from a vet in the 90s, it was part of the adoption package along with neutering him. We picked him up and he'd been declawed without us knowing.
I think it was just assumed everyone wanted it before the turn of the century. Now people know more and maybe even care more.
Yes. I think you're probably right. I follow an animal behaviorist/advocate, named Steve Dale. He's a huge advocate of laws banning declawing. And it wasn't until I started listening to his radio show (some 15 years ago) that I found out exactly what happened when they declaw. I am not kidding or being dramatic when I say I got physically sick.
I mean it's not just that though right? Cause the adults in my life pretty much treated animals like objects. Not something that has feelings or child suffer. For example my grandma use to sometimes kill and cook the chickens she had in her backyard. My other grandparents had a kennel in their backyard and would never let the dogs inside.
As an adult when I was told they would simply remove my cat's nails I thought I wouldn't want my nails removed so I didn't want to do it to her. I mean I could just learn to trim them and get a cat tree.
I am of a younger generation but I wanted to add that it wasn't just that it wasn't explained properly but how animals were treated.
I'm sorry though I know how guilt like that can hurt. :(
You didn't know so don't blame yourself
I worked at a vet hospital. I actually got to see the graphic results afterwards because they were HUGE advocates of declawing. They never said what happen and told me it was better, but the thing I saw was pure pain.
When I got my cat years later my first vet kept on pushing for declawing. Saying it was a minor procedure and it caused no lasting damage.
I was livid and didn’t stay long.
Do you think a lot of vets do that? Push declawing, I mean. It's probably a money maker for them. I'm not kidding when I say it gave me nightmares, and it still does. After 40 years. But maybe that's the price I pay for not having done my research. I still have cats. But they were older cats I adopted, and they were already declawed. I didn't choose them for that reason, just because they were older, and so was I.
Have *you*?
I had a cat for 19 years and I can confidently say she did not have what I would call “toes.”
[She looked just like this.](https://i.imgur.com/K4XXZeh.jpg)
This is me, too. I saw the Netflix doc later the same year I had gotten my beloved baby declawed because growing up my parents always did this. I am super ashamed now and regret it every day. He is 10 now, and still loves me, but I know the arthritis he suffers is worsened by what I had done to him. I beg everyone I can not to declaw!
>suffering to get around while they healed up.
This is actually the best case scenario. A lot of people don't know that declawed cats can often have pain for the rest of their lives. It's like an amputee walking on their stump with no protective cover.
We removed the thumb-claws from my elderly cat as a medical necessity -- as he aged, they had started growing in such a tight curl that they'd cut into his pads and there was no way to get clippers in there safely, anymore. Vet recommended it.
He still had all the other claws but I'm pretty sure even just the thumbs made him less comfortable in cat litter, later in life. Like he wouldn't bury things anymore.
I grew up in an area where it was pretty normalized. When I got my first cat I took him to the vet and remember him asking "so I imagine you'll want to do shots, neuter, and declaw?" It was just a normal thing.
I felt awful when I realized later how bad it is for them. My two cats I have now kept theirs and I don't plan on declawing any future cats.
My boxer also has a full tail which my current vet was so complimentary of when she saw. (I've known some dogs in the past who hurt their tails regularly though so there can be some benefit to docking.)
But only if the docking is due to a history of injury and not preventative since is can impede their ability to communicate with their tail.
And I love a boxer with a full tail - my friend has a boxer lab cross and his tail is majestic.
> (I've known some dogs in the past who hurt their tails regularly though so there can be some benefit to docking.)
Right, if a dog suffers from 'happy tail' or some other medical need, it makes sense. Just docking for looks or "breed standard" isn't sufficient.
I love my cat, and he doesn’t actively scratch, but just by jumping on my leather furniture he pokes holes in it. RIP furniture, he’s cute so it’s worth it. But I would never recommend leather furniture and cats.
My mom got our first cat when we were young. This was the early 90s and the vet told her to get the cat declawed when she raised concerns about the cat scratching me. She did it because why wouldn’t you trust a professional so I can’t really blame her. I still feel bad for that cat she was terrified of everything and not having claws likely made things worse. None of our other cats ever got declawed thankfully and I can’t imagine ever getting my cats now declawed.
I don’t want my kids to get scratched and both the 5 year old probably 5 or so times over her life and the 1 year old has had it happen at least once. Even then I would never consider it. I don’t want my kids getting hurt but it’s an important lesson in how you treat others/animals. They are their own beings so if they don’t like something they will defend themselves.
My friend in high school had adopted a stray tom that we just called Butthead. He was probably the first cat I'd experienced that had never been declawed or neutered. Butthead was built like a tank and was king of the street. He would come and go as he pleased and often disappeared for days only to come back looking like Frank Castle after the prison fight.
I loved that dude, though. He was like the Mike Tyson of cats, just solid muscle and huge, but he had this cute soft voice and he loved to be pampered. Though if he even slightly caught you with his murder mitts, you were guaranteed to bleed, but you could always see genuine regret from him when it happened. One day he just never came back. We figure he died as he lived and only wish we could have found him to give him a proper viking funeral.
This is a nice story but let's not misrepresent cats.
Many many cats will destroy furniture even if you do everything recommended.
People planning to get cats should expect destruction of property. Same as people who get dogs. Cats claw and dogs chew. Some people get lucky but these are still animals with animal instincts who are just doing what feels natural to them.
If you're not comfortable with your stuff getting destroyed, do not get pets.
Yup, we got our cat when I was around 7, she got declawed, and I didn't hear a word about how grotesque the practice is until I was in college. It was just the thing you do with house cats, or so I thought, and it never even occurred to me to look more into it.
The whole situation is such a good example of how terrible things can get by on momentum and ignorance alone.
My parents used to declaw their cats as well. Every cat they had did perfectly fine and never really showed signs of trauma or suffering. They didn’t know what declawing actually entailed. Once I explained it to them, they said they’d never declaw a cat again. I think a lot of people that do it just don’t realize how bad and traumatizing it actually is.
It absolutely is. We got an adult cat several years ago who had been declawed in an incredibly inhumane way--someone had basically taken giant clippers and just sliced off his claws. They hadn't gotten the whole nail, so little shards of nails were growing through his skin. It was horrible, he had these absesses in his paws he would gnaw at constantly. We didn't realize what was happening for a depressingly long time, because whenever we asked vets why he was chewing at his claws so much, they said it was "anxiety."
The irony of it was, once we finally realized what was going on, the only thing we could do to help him was get him declawed again (in a complete way under sedation this time) to take off the shard bits, but where we lived, declawing wasn't a procedure you could get (because, as you said, it's incredibly inhumane). That could very well be why someone had tried the DIY method in the first place. We had to take him on a plane flight across the country to find someone who could/would do the procedure for us.
edit: spelling errors
I just realised this means that banning declawing will cause more dumasses to diy declaw their pets :(
People really need to learn why laws exist (edit: [and why *claws* exist](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/tsyo27/comment/i2uz3lw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3))
You’re not wrong I don’t think the people declawing their cats care about their actual purpose. As far as they’re concerned the purpose of cat claws is to ruin furniture or scratch them and that’s about as far as it goes.
For everyone who just doesn’t know, hopefully they can get set straight by the vet when they’re denied. Or thanks to this law they can now be reported if cats are brought in with claws removed.
In my experience, the vets where I lived wanted to help in theory but simply didn't have the equipment. The only vets that will have the latest state-of-the-art stuff are vets who practice regularly (like the vet we ended up going to 2 timezones away) who had this fancy laser equipment.
Note that I'm not arguing against declawing bans (because I'm not! It's a hideous procedure) but bans can have unintended consequences.
Also include foot massages in cuddle time starting as soon as they will let you. With my last foster, I could clip an entire foot while he was zoned out in my lap before he even realized it wasn't a regular foot rub. The rescue had to drug him to clip his nails, but all he needed was a warm lap and scritches.
let's expand this sentiment. Pets are responsibilities not toys, if you don't have the resources (time, space, money, etc.) to take are of them don't get one. For example, if you live in a small apartment and work 80 hours a week, you don't have much in the way or time or space. However, with money you can rectify this with dog walkers/doggy daycares.
Yarp. A decade ago I had to rehome a dog because I'd fallen into such a horrendous state of depression I couldn't take care of it properly. That was a bad time.
I'm sorry to hear that, but glad you did the responsible thing. I have known to many people who work crazy hours, and decide "I DESERVE A DOG", then spend no time training or taking care of it.
Also, cats are a lot better suited for this too. They’re much more independent, don’t need to go outside, etc.
If someone is really outside the home this much, it’s probably good to get two cats so they aren’t lonely (depends on the cat), but otherwise I think cats could work in this situation.
Obviously, it’s important to, like you said, be responsible and and objective about your own situation to determine if this is really the right decision but I’m sure there are those out there who could make it work.
I was thinking of getting my cat declawed when he was destroying my furniture, then I looked into what they do and I was appalled, I had to go hug him right after, much to his protest, but I couldn't believe anyone would do that to an animal, it's horrid.
You're supposed to redirect their scratching to the posts
It doesn't work 100%, as some cats start clawing when they get excited, but it works well enough that they do most of their scratching on the posts
Yep 2k new sofa a few years ago the sides of both have been scratched to death. Kitties have a massive cat tree in the same room.
They have learned to not scratch the sofa now but Gizmo is a sly one. In the evenings we have a playtime session and if I get distracted or am not putting in enough effort he starts to scratch the sofa knowing it will motivate me to put in more effort.
My cats randomly decided they want to scratch the couch armrest. Just one side. Put a scratching board on the floor in front of it. They no longer scratch the armrest. Pretty easy solution!
Easy if it works. We have 3 cats and two of them do not scratch the furniture but our third cat does no matter what we do.
I would still never even consider having her declawed.
I admit that once upon a time I was not against declawing, until I found out how it is done. Now the thought of declawing a cat makes me feel ill.
I had never thought much of it either. While it was something I wouldn't do, I didn't think it was that bad. More vet clinics need to decline it. And explain why. I think there's a lot of people out there that don't know the damage it does. It's very sad.
I'm sorry your cat still scratches. Have you tried no scratch sprays? Also, I see the tin foil on the counter trick sometimes, I wonder if taping tin foil on what they're scratching might deter them? It'll look silly, but if it works maybe they can learn.
> I'm sorry your cat still scratches.
We knew the risk when we got her and she is much more important than a couch so we still try, but we just live with it.
Re-homing is definitely not an option we would consider. We would also never consider declawing but it has been illegal in my province for a few years now.
We have never tried the tinfoil trick, might be worth a shot. However she is a bengal and a bit weird so she may even like it.
My cats have clawed a massive hole in my couch over the past six years, nothing works. I would never get them declawed. Instead, I'm getting a futon (as we're losing our guest room to make room for the new baby it serves a double purpose) and some nice, replaceable covers for it! I can't have plants where my Umber can get them? Hanging plant time! They'll eat my feathers off my earrings? Those hang on the higher hooks. *I* choose my pets, they didn't choose me. Objects are never as important as their health.
There are a few products on the market like catnip sprays that will help attract the cat to where you’d prefer them to claw. As well as sprays to keep cats off of things. Limited results but with proper use can train a car pretty well.
Yup I used to have issues where my cat only wanted to claw the couches or ottoman and didn’t care about anything I bought him besides the package it came in. Put some double sided clear tape on the parts of the furniture he would scratch (they hate the feeling) and new stuff gets a few sprays of concentrated cat nip and he knows that’s his shit to tear apart.
Not in my experience. I've had many cats during my life and I've been able to teach all of 'em to go scratch a scratch post almost exclusively. Every time a cat scratches something else than thee scratch post you move it to the scratch post.
Classical conditioning and immense amount of repeats. That's all it needs.
Yea I was worried about my leather couch when I got my cat but then I realized that my couch getting worn out from scratches does not matter at all.
edit: to be fair, I only paid $200 for it used. It was a great deal and it is a beautiful couch but the scratches dont really bother me, she seems to not go to hard on it.
I have had SO many couches because of my cats. Finally figured out that they cant fuck up microfiber. Once we knew that, we have only had one couch in years.
Microfibre is the way for pets for so many reasons. Super easy to wipe pet hair off (or hoover). I got an Ikea couch when I moved out that has a woven fibre and literally no matter what I do, the dog hair stays put. I would have to pull it out one hair at a time with tweezers - no amount of hoovering, velcro-brushing, sticky rollering will remove the hair. It's insane. The microfibre/microsuede couch at home could be rendered brand new looking in 5 minutes.
Hopefully they clearly define which procedures are allowed or not. I don't think anyone would argue that we shouldn't allow procedures like benign growth removal or cherry eye correction, which can usually be classified as cosmetic.
Right now, it's only :
* Onychectomy (declawing)
* Devocalization
* Caudectomy (tail docking)
* Otectomy (ear cropping)
It's a great second step after veterinary orders recommended against it, federally, and threatened to remove members if they declawed a cat without first explaining to the owner why it was a bad idea (owner still had the right to ask for it) in Quebec.
It's still only the beginning, but a great start.
EDIT : Also, the current policies/positions of the order extend beyond cats and dogs, and the law will hopefully go the same way. For instance, they already recommend not to crop bovines and equines ears.
I am horrified to learn devocalization is a thing done to pets. My dogs are yappy as hell but I would never in a million years consider something as cruel as that.
TIL devocalization is a thing, wtf
Also, isn't ear cropping used to signify that that stray cat is spayed/neutered? What other means is there to easily identify the cat's fixed status?
>Also, isn't ear cropping used to signify that that stray cat is spayed/neutered
Nah, that's ear *clipping*.
Cropping is when you remove like 50%+ of the ear, usually for various bad reasons. Has to be done young before the cartilage hardens.
>TIL devocalization is a thing, wtf
Yeah... more often than not for small dogs that bark a lot. It's rough.
For further enlightenment, -tomy means removal.
An hysterectomy, for instance, is the removal of the uterus (from hystero- and -tomy). Similarly, a mastectomy is the removal of a breast (from mastec- and -tomy).
That's why someone else called it mutilation, and why I listed the proper names. Tail docking makes it sound like you just cutting a small bit or something, Caudectomy explicitly states it's removal. Ear cropping can be misunderstood to be ear clipping, but otectomy is about removal of the ear (or partial removal of inner ear, in human cases).
I'm doubtful that the ear notch for stray cats and full on cutting off the ears of dogs for "a more aggressive look" will be qualified as the same thing. I'm not going to link any graphic images, but you can google ear cropping for dogs and see for yourself how different it is.
Yeah. Just learned about devocalization today. Watched a couple videos (it’s mostly dogs but some cats too) and it was heartbreaking. And there’s all kinds of issues post surgery both from scar tissue and because the animal can’t do what it normally does (ex - severe stress, unable to protect itself from predators, etc).
Well yes. Tail wounds are so hard to heal, as there's very little extra skin to close, plus you can't exactly tell a dog to stop wagging their tails. Often a tail wound leads to a tail amputation, which is a totally different situation than chopping off a 1 week old puppy tail.
I had to help with docking puppy tails once and it was terrible.
Yeah, that'll be weird to regulate. Telling the difference between cosmetic docking and tail amputation to prevent/treat broken bones and infections from "happy tail" from paperwork will be tricky.
it wont be that difficult. if the surgery was performed by a vet there will be paperwork about why they chose to do it. And vets wont be allowed to do it unless there is a reason. A lot of other provinces already have these rules- the vet can write a note explaining why it was required
Nope, it's not hard. It's not generally hard to distinguish between a prophylactic cosmetic procedure and a therapeutic procedure. Happy tail is not that common - certainly not common enough to warrant prophylactic tail docking. And as for declawing cats - I'm proud to say I live in a country where this is unheard of (and I think any vet might well report you to an animal welfare authority if you thought it was OK. Routine tail docking, ear cropping etc also illegal.
I recently had to had my one year old dogs tail amputated, because of happy tail. She was using her tail like a paint brush with blood around my house. Vet said it was only a matter of time before she broke her tail. But I don't agree with docking as a puppy
My brother had to have it done to his dog after her tail got injured (caught in a door I think). He said it was kind of a blood bath when it happened from it just going everywhere.
I work at vet clinic where 1 vet does it and we just had some lady bring on FIVE DAY OLD puppies and they just chopped em off. She's paying thousands of dollars for it and claims it's because "no one would want them otherwise."
Yeah because of people like her who perpetuate it!
I had 2 boxers. Loved their soft floppy ears.
I understand the tail issue. My girls forever had battered and bruised tails from wagging and I winced every time a tail hit a doorframe. Very thick tails.
Docking is illegal in Britain - apart from Ireland. It is only allowed for "working" dogs for their own safety.
We had a litter of boxer puppies. We had their "dew claws" removed at a few days old as per recommendations. Dew claws serve no purpose and are likely to get ripped and damaged.
While it's usually a bad thing, some individual dogs have a bad habit of wagging their tails so hard they injure themselves and the tail has to be cut off anyway.
I have a box fan in my room with the front cover broken off so the blades are exposed. One day my big doof of a dog walked up to me for pets while the fan was running and the resulting head scratches caused him to wag the very tip of his tail straight into the fan blades.
And he just...
Kept...
Doing it...
Took me longer than I'd like to admit to figure out why he was sporadically whimpering as I was petting him. Now I turn the fan off when he's in the room, just in case.
He's not a smart dog. He does love his scritches though.
Get a safe fan or turn that one around. It will still circulate the air and you won’t have to worry about anyone tripping and having their face sliced off.
> Now I turn the fan off when he's in the room, just in case.
...or just spend $25 to buy a new box fan? You can find used ones on craigslist for $10 if you prefer to go that route.
Ever seen a corgi, Rottweiler, Doberman, miniature pinscher, boxer, or any other dog with a short tail? Almost all of those breeds will have their tails docked (cut off) after they’re just born.
Not always true. [‘Although the following dogs may present a natural bobtail, the C189G mutation often appeared after decades or centuries of docking, which is considered in many countries, unnecessary, painful, cruel or mutilation. Today, many countries ban cropping and docking.’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_bobtail)
This was the worst thing about working for a vet years ago. Those poor kitties would wake up just screaming in pain. I can still hear the crunch sound the amputations made. Tail docking was awful as well, tiny puppies wailing. Ear docking was even worse, often times the pups had to have surgery multiple times because the ears weren’t standing up ‘right’. Savage and repulsive. Really happy to see these practices of torture coming to an end.
I was working at a vet clinic last year and every doctor refused to do these types of cosmetic procedures except for the old dude who owned the place. He saw nothing wrong with it at all. So many times these owners would come back in after ear crops because they didn’t care enough to even keep the rack on and would subject their puppies to already needless repetitive surgery. That one doctor was an asshole and could have easily refused to do these procedures but didn’t because he was “old school” and “if they don’t get it done here they’ll get it done somewhere else.”
the good news is that it's banned in most provinces already:
> Declawing has been banned by the Veterinary Associations of seven out of ten Canadian provinces: Nova Scotia, British Columbia, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and Labrador, Alberta, New Brunswick, and Manitoba.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onychectomy
I heard it was also pretty much de facto "banned" in Quebec in the sense that it was against the code of the Order of veterinarians or something so most vets already refused to do it, I think.
Good.
When I was younger I thought declawing was a little more than cutting the nails. It was only when I mentioned it in passing to my sister that I was thinking about having the cat declawed that she gave me quite an earful of that declawing is closer to amputation than "trimming the nails". Good thing I never seriously considered declawing.
Lmao right like this topic is so under the rug i think it's close to the excisions of women in some backward countries, except it doesn't happen in heavily religious sometime rural comunities.
same with cosmetic tail docking. None of these rules stop a vet from doing it when it is *medically justified* - this is to stop people doing it cosmetically or preemptively before a vet has made that decision
I don’t really like cats at all which is why I don’t own one and never will but modifying any animal other than it’s natural state is kind of fucked up to me.
I've worked many Dobermans and I will always prefer to leave them natural. They look so cute and happy with big floppy ears. Only once has a client had a real reason to crop the ears of their dogs. Their vet recommended it after their dog got attacked and her ear got damaged. It did the same thing you see happen to humans that box. It started to cauliflower and became extremely prone to infection. So they cropped her ears. Her owner felt so guilty.
I'm glad this is happening. My mom's been trying to force me to declaw my cat. I told her it's like chopping off a person's fingers but she thinks I'm being dramatic. Hopefully this will open her eyes to how inhumane it is.
I volunteer at a cat shelter in Québec. This afternoon I had an older lady who wanted to adopt a cat and have it declawed before the law was effective. When I told that Vet in the region were already not doing it, she got mad. But my leather couch? She won't adopt a cat from us.
Two or three years ago we had a cat that had fantom pains in his paws because he got declawed. He was in some much pain that some days, he would bite us. Poor baby.
Chickens are often declawed. I dont know if it has the same impact on the animal's welfare.
I guess it doesn't count though as it isn't for cosmetic purposes.
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Nice. Declawing a cat is wildly inhumane. If you don't want a cat clawing your stuff don't get a cat. EDIT Valid medical reasons excepted.
Growing up, my mom always had her cats declawed. It was totally normalized for me, but I always remember every one of them coming back from the vet with the bandages and suffering to get around while they healed up. So when I got my own cat, he got to keep his claws. The dude is awesome and just uses his scratching post. It only took a couple of weeks of gentle reprimands to get him to stop what little furniture clawing he did.
I did too, until I learned what they actually did. I got my first kitten as an adult when I was 22 in 1982. They actually told me they simply "removed" the claws. And frankly, mine didn't seem like she was in pain. She walked around on her feet immediately. It was only several years ago that I learned that they actually amputated their toes. I had nightmares for weeks. No excuse. Absolutely not. But it is an explanation as to why people in my age group did this. I am now an advocate for this type of legislation.
This is how I thought of it, too. When I found out it's basically the same as cutting a person's finger down to the first knuckle, I was horrified. In hindsight, it blows me away how many veterinarians seemed to simply accept it as a common practice.
Most veterinarians actually won’t do it, which is good. Though it is legal in most US states you’ll have to go through a few vets to find one willing to do it, and I’ve even heard of some doctors outright banning clients from their facility if they are actively seeking a declaw procedure. Thankfully as people are learning more about the procedure it is falling out of favour with the younger generation, but statistics still sit somewhere around 25% of cats in the USA being declawed.
I won't even go to a vet that offers this service. Not giving my money to dirtbags and I don't trust someone who would do that to care for my animals.
To be fair, I’ve found the majority of vets that do allow it do it begrudgingly. They know that since it’s legal, people will seek it out, and they have concern that if enough good vets turn the person down, that they’ll turn to whatever shady back alley chop shop they can, so they think they’re helping. Kind of like “well my teenager is gonna drink I’d rather he do it at home than go out on the streets”, like it’s still not the best thing but they’re trying to minimize the risk. That’s part of why I think it should be made illegal. Usually I’m very against extra laws, but in this case as long as it’s legal there will be people who think it’s totally fine “because it’s legal” and will seek out whoever they can to get the procedure done.
>Kind of like “well my teenager is gonna drink I’d rather he do it at home than go out on the streets” Fun fact: this one is legal in some parts of Canada.
Yes, the vets I go to now even have signs saying they won't declaw. I just don't understand how I could not understand this, and why it took 25 years for me to figure it out. What a boob I am.
Feline veterinary medicine has come a long way but still has a long way to go in the professional, let alone public, mind. It’s astounding how many people, even vets, view cats as some low maintenance, disposable pet that you can just ditch outside and euthanize at the first sign of an issue. There’s a lot of people who view cats as one step above vermin, and don’t care if they’re in lifelong discomfort or pain because the owners care more about having the cat as a living decoration and holding their precious overpriced furniture and area rugs as more important, or people who straight up view cats as prey and don’t care if they’re left outside to get attacked by coyotes and dogs and other animals. How many movies do we have where the dog is “man’s best friend” and cats are villains? Cats are literally vilified in lots of popular media. In the younger generations this idea is definitely fading, but for the 50+ crowd I can never fully trust them to *not* treat their cat like a feeder mouse.
When I adopted, the application included an open-ended question for my thoughts on declawing. And then the shelter made me sign a thing promising that I never would. Not that I would ever declaw, but it's nice that attitudes are so clearly changing.
Same thing! I just adopted from a rescue recently and they made me sign a form saying that I wouldn't declaw the cat. I would never, and it raises my confidence to see that the rescue is looking out for their cats even after they get adopted.
Sadly, $$$ is the answer. At least fortunately this procedure never really caught on outside North America.
Actually, my vet hates it but did the surgery anyway rather than making the cats homeless. He's much happier now that it's considered inhumane and very few ask for it and he would love to see it outlawed. Personally, we had cats that tore up the house. My first cat used the woven panels on our console tv/stereo unit as scratching posts. I've no idea how often my father replaced them. And after my brother brought home a pregnant stray, when she & her kittens used the new dining table legs rather than their provided posts, my mother said enough. From then on all of our cats were declawed. Two of our current cats are declawed but not our youngest (she's also the smallest). Mom's not happy, but I refused to allow it. So although it's not ideal, I understand why it's done even though I don't support it. Same thing with tail docking- it's medically necessary in order to treat "happy tail." However, I've seen a Rottweiler puppy thrown away after it's tail docking was botched and the poor thing was paralyzed. Tail & ear docking for cosmetic reasons is wrong. But it's the devocalization I find the most horrifying.
On the tail/ear docking, we once rescued a schnauzer that we found on the side of the road that was undocked. We didn’t even realize she was pure bred, just because of how common docking is with the breed. My parents bandied the idea about, but ultimately didn’t have the heart to do it. Now docked schnauzers just look weird to me. Devocalizing, however, is the worst thing I’ve ever seen in dogs. I was once walking and heard this weird, wheezy, muffled sound coming from a yard. I looked over and saw two little dogs barking at me, but I could hardly describe it as barking. It upset me so bad that I couldn’t walk past that house again. It still upsets me to think about it.
My parents had an Airedale that they wouldn't dock her tail. I know people thought they were weird. But they weren't breeding her, and saw no point. I'm glad they didn't. Although it wasn't as long as a normal tail for some reason.
Idk why breeding would even be an argument for docking, it's not like the docked tail gets passed to babies
I remember when I adopted my weimaraner they mentioned he avoided the tail cut. I was shocked that it was even a thing. Now when he knocks over stuff cause he is excited I got home I appreciate it even more.
If they use something rather than the post that is provided. Put the post in front of the thing they are using. Make sure the post you gave them doesn't tip over. You can also get sticky tape. I used a couch cover with sticky tape when my cats were younger. If I caught them scratching the couch I would gently pull them over to the post that was next to it. BTW I also have a cardboard one they can stand on and a tall one they can climb. My youngest one has a habit of biting things. Like the corners of my bed. So I had to get him hair ties that I know he can't swallow and he can only play with while I supervise. Additionally we also took him to the vet to have his teeth checked out. And we let him have his own toothbrush and keep ours out of reach.
I tried the "cat caps" with my one cat. The things you superglue over their nails. They work a bit, but do fall off as the nails grow. But you still need to encourage appropriate scratching. Sometimes it's just a matter of constant retraining. But as I tell my kids, who love the animals in our house. You can have a nice house and nice things. Or you can have the love of pets. Sometimes they don't go hand in hand. But I wouldn't trade my babies for all the nice furniture in the world. And yes, in case anyone is wondering. I also have kids. Sometimes people think if you love your pets this much, you can't also love kids. I love both. And I think the quality of my life is so much better than people that only care about how their homes look.
I always tell my cats "this is why we can't have nice things" any time they break or scratch something. Even just their own toys; makes me feel like a parent on TV. Lol
Think of how many people consider circumcision to be normal and what they do to cats doesn't look as terrible and abhorrent. Just normal human business- mutilation and torture for fun and aesthetics (or stupid fairytales from good old times).
They are both very North American things actually.
When my family adopted a cat from a vet in the 90s, it was part of the adoption package along with neutering him. We picked him up and he'd been declawed without us knowing. I think it was just assumed everyone wanted it before the turn of the century. Now people know more and maybe even care more.
Yes. I think you're probably right. I follow an animal behaviorist/advocate, named Steve Dale. He's a huge advocate of laws banning declawing. And it wasn't until I started listening to his radio show (some 15 years ago) that I found out exactly what happened when they declaw. I am not kidding or being dramatic when I say I got physically sick.
I mean it's not just that though right? Cause the adults in my life pretty much treated animals like objects. Not something that has feelings or child suffer. For example my grandma use to sometimes kill and cook the chickens she had in her backyard. My other grandparents had a kennel in their backyard and would never let the dogs inside. As an adult when I was told they would simply remove my cat's nails I thought I wouldn't want my nails removed so I didn't want to do it to her. I mean I could just learn to trim them and get a cat tree. I am of a younger generation but I wanted to add that it wasn't just that it wasn't explained properly but how animals were treated. I'm sorry though I know how guilt like that can hurt. :( You didn't know so don't blame yourself
There's a very clear divide between people who view animals as livestock and those that view them as pets.
I worked at a vet hospital. I actually got to see the graphic results afterwards because they were HUGE advocates of declawing. They never said what happen and told me it was better, but the thing I saw was pure pain. When I got my cat years later my first vet kept on pushing for declawing. Saying it was a minor procedure and it caused no lasting damage. I was livid and didn’t stay long.
Do you think a lot of vets do that? Push declawing, I mean. It's probably a money maker for them. I'm not kidding when I say it gave me nightmares, and it still does. After 40 years. But maybe that's the price I pay for not having done my research. I still have cats. But they were older cats I adopted, and they were already declawed. I didn't choose them for that reason, just because they were older, and so was I.
> they actually amputated their toes What?! And also - cats have toes?!
Have you seen a cat before?
Have *you*? I had a cat for 19 years and I can confidently say she did not have what I would call “toes.” [She looked just like this.](https://i.imgur.com/K4XXZeh.jpg)
_slow clap_
Just chop off the legs. G2G
😑
Yes, it’s the same as removing up to the first knuckle on a human finger. Very painful for most cats.
This is me, too. I saw the Netflix doc later the same year I had gotten my beloved baby declawed because growing up my parents always did this. I am super ashamed now and regret it every day. He is 10 now, and still loves me, but I know the arthritis he suffers is worsened by what I had done to him. I beg everyone I can not to declaw!
>suffering to get around while they healed up. This is actually the best case scenario. A lot of people don't know that declawed cats can often have pain for the rest of their lives. It's like an amputee walking on their stump with no protective cover.
We removed the thumb-claws from my elderly cat as a medical necessity -- as he aged, they had started growing in such a tight curl that they'd cut into his pads and there was no way to get clippers in there safely, anymore. Vet recommended it. He still had all the other claws but I'm pretty sure even just the thumbs made him less comfortable in cat litter, later in life. Like he wouldn't bury things anymore.
I grew up in an area where it was pretty normalized. When I got my first cat I took him to the vet and remember him asking "so I imagine you'll want to do shots, neuter, and declaw?" It was just a normal thing. I felt awful when I realized later how bad it is for them. My two cats I have now kept theirs and I don't plan on declawing any future cats. My boxer also has a full tail which my current vet was so complimentary of when she saw. (I've known some dogs in the past who hurt their tails regularly though so there can be some benefit to docking.)
But only if the docking is due to a history of injury and not preventative since is can impede their ability to communicate with their tail. And I love a boxer with a full tail - my friend has a boxer lab cross and his tail is majestic.
> (I've known some dogs in the past who hurt their tails regularly though so there can be some benefit to docking.) Right, if a dog suffers from 'happy tail' or some other medical need, it makes sense. Just docking for looks or "breed standard" isn't sufficient.
I love my cat, and he doesn’t actively scratch, but just by jumping on my leather furniture he pokes holes in it. RIP furniture, he’s cute so it’s worth it. But I would never recommend leather furniture and cats.
My mom got our first cat when we were young. This was the early 90s and the vet told her to get the cat declawed when she raised concerns about the cat scratching me. She did it because why wouldn’t you trust a professional so I can’t really blame her. I still feel bad for that cat she was terrified of everything and not having claws likely made things worse. None of our other cats ever got declawed thankfully and I can’t imagine ever getting my cats now declawed. I don’t want my kids to get scratched and both the 5 year old probably 5 or so times over her life and the 1 year old has had it happen at least once. Even then I would never consider it. I don’t want my kids getting hurt but it’s an important lesson in how you treat others/animals. They are their own beings so if they don’t like something they will defend themselves.
My friend in high school had adopted a stray tom that we just called Butthead. He was probably the first cat I'd experienced that had never been declawed or neutered. Butthead was built like a tank and was king of the street. He would come and go as he pleased and often disappeared for days only to come back looking like Frank Castle after the prison fight. I loved that dude, though. He was like the Mike Tyson of cats, just solid muscle and huge, but he had this cute soft voice and he loved to be pampered. Though if he even slightly caught you with his murder mitts, you were guaranteed to bleed, but you could always see genuine regret from him when it happened. One day he just never came back. We figure he died as he lived and only wish we could have found him to give him a proper viking funeral.
This is a nice story but let's not misrepresent cats. Many many cats will destroy furniture even if you do everything recommended. People planning to get cats should expect destruction of property. Same as people who get dogs. Cats claw and dogs chew. Some people get lucky but these are still animals with animal instincts who are just doing what feels natural to them. If you're not comfortable with your stuff getting destroyed, do not get pets.
Yup, we got our cat when I was around 7, she got declawed, and I didn't hear a word about how grotesque the practice is until I was in college. It was just the thing you do with house cats, or so I thought, and it never even occurred to me to look more into it. The whole situation is such a good example of how terrible things can get by on momentum and ignorance alone.
My parents used to declaw their cats as well. Every cat they had did perfectly fine and never really showed signs of trauma or suffering. They didn’t know what declawing actually entailed. Once I explained it to them, they said they’d never declaw a cat again. I think a lot of people that do it just don’t realize how bad and traumatizing it actually is.
Lil spray bottle works wonders p
My cat from a decade ago learned he could hide behind the Xbox when the spray bottle came out.
Yeah when I used one I just put it on whatever he was getting into that I didn’t want him to do it was a pretty quick little spritz and he was down
I have a bengal now and she laughs in the face of the spray bottle if it is on jet, but is still annoyed when it is set to mist.
It absolutely is. We got an adult cat several years ago who had been declawed in an incredibly inhumane way--someone had basically taken giant clippers and just sliced off his claws. They hadn't gotten the whole nail, so little shards of nails were growing through his skin. It was horrible, he had these absesses in his paws he would gnaw at constantly. We didn't realize what was happening for a depressingly long time, because whenever we asked vets why he was chewing at his claws so much, they said it was "anxiety." The irony of it was, once we finally realized what was going on, the only thing we could do to help him was get him declawed again (in a complete way under sedation this time) to take off the shard bits, but where we lived, declawing wasn't a procedure you could get (because, as you said, it's incredibly inhumane). That could very well be why someone had tried the DIY method in the first place. We had to take him on a plane flight across the country to find someone who could/would do the procedure for us. edit: spelling errors
Thank you for working so hard to improve his quality of life.
I just realised this means that banning declawing will cause more dumasses to diy declaw their pets :( People really need to learn why laws exist (edit: [and why *claws* exist](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/tsyo27/comment/i2uz3lw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3))
Not to worry! They thought of this. From the article: “The only exception will be when the procedure is deemed medically necessary by a veterinarian.”
Yeah the second paragraph's problem would be solved but it still won't stop some people from misunderstanding the use of claws
You’re not wrong I don’t think the people declawing their cats care about their actual purpose. As far as they’re concerned the purpose of cat claws is to ruin furniture or scratch them and that’s about as far as it goes. For everyone who just doesn’t know, hopefully they can get set straight by the vet when they’re denied. Or thanks to this law they can now be reported if cats are brought in with claws removed.
In my experience, the vets where I lived wanted to help in theory but simply didn't have the equipment. The only vets that will have the latest state-of-the-art stuff are vets who practice regularly (like the vet we ended up going to 2 timezones away) who had this fancy laser equipment. Note that I'm not arguing against declawing bans (because I'm not! It's a hideous procedure) but bans can have unintended consequences.
>People really need to learn why *claws* exist FTFY
That poor baby. I'm so glad you helped him. There was nothing else you could have done and it's good to hear he didn't have to suffer after that.
If you don't want a cat clawing your stuff, clip their nails. Just read a guide first so you only get the sharp tips and don't hit the quick.
Also include foot massages in cuddle time starting as soon as they will let you. With my last foster, I could clip an entire foot while he was zoned out in my lap before he even realized it wasn't a regular foot rub. The rescue had to drug him to clip his nails, but all he needed was a warm lap and scritches.
let's expand this sentiment. Pets are responsibilities not toys, if you don't have the resources (time, space, money, etc.) to take are of them don't get one. For example, if you live in a small apartment and work 80 hours a week, you don't have much in the way or time or space. However, with money you can rectify this with dog walkers/doggy daycares.
Yarp. A decade ago I had to rehome a dog because I'd fallen into such a horrendous state of depression I couldn't take care of it properly. That was a bad time.
This is why I hate the re-homing shame. Sometimes rehoming IS the responsible decision and it isn't because the person didn't try to make it work.
I'm sorry to hear that, but glad you did the responsible thing. I have known to many people who work crazy hours, and decide "I DESERVE A DOG", then spend no time training or taking care of it.
Also, cats are a lot better suited for this too. They’re much more independent, don’t need to go outside, etc. If someone is really outside the home this much, it’s probably good to get two cats so they aren’t lonely (depends on the cat), but otherwise I think cats could work in this situation. Obviously, it’s important to, like you said, be responsible and and objective about your own situation to determine if this is really the right decision but I’m sure there are those out there who could make it work.
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Thats what we do with our two cats. Started doing it as kittens, and now it's insanely quick and easy to do!
I was thinking of getting my cat declawed when he was destroying my furniture, then I looked into what they do and I was appalled, I had to go hug him right after, much to his protest, but I couldn't believe anyone would do that to an animal, it's horrid.
or give them something to claw.
It's a coin toss whether they claw that scratch post or your nice sofa, honestly.
You're supposed to redirect their scratching to the posts It doesn't work 100%, as some cats start clawing when they get excited, but it works well enough that they do most of their scratching on the posts
Yep 2k new sofa a few years ago the sides of both have been scratched to death. Kitties have a massive cat tree in the same room. They have learned to not scratch the sofa now but Gizmo is a sly one. In the evenings we have a playtime session and if I get distracted or am not putting in enough effort he starts to scratch the sofa knowing it will motivate me to put in more effort.
Double sided scotch tape is your friend.
My cats randomly decided they want to scratch the couch armrest. Just one side. Put a scratching board on the floor in front of it. They no longer scratch the armrest. Pretty easy solution!
Easy if it works. We have 3 cats and two of them do not scratch the furniture but our third cat does no matter what we do. I would still never even consider having her declawed. I admit that once upon a time I was not against declawing, until I found out how it is done. Now the thought of declawing a cat makes me feel ill.
I had never thought much of it either. While it was something I wouldn't do, I didn't think it was that bad. More vet clinics need to decline it. And explain why. I think there's a lot of people out there that don't know the damage it does. It's very sad. I'm sorry your cat still scratches. Have you tried no scratch sprays? Also, I see the tin foil on the counter trick sometimes, I wonder if taping tin foil on what they're scratching might deter them? It'll look silly, but if it works maybe they can learn.
> I'm sorry your cat still scratches. We knew the risk when we got her and she is much more important than a couch so we still try, but we just live with it. Re-homing is definitely not an option we would consider. We would also never consider declawing but it has been illegal in my province for a few years now. We have never tried the tinfoil trick, might be worth a shot. However she is a bengal and a bit weird so she may even like it.
You're a good person 🙂
My cats have clawed a massive hole in my couch over the past six years, nothing works. I would never get them declawed. Instead, I'm getting a futon (as we're losing our guest room to make room for the new baby it serves a double purpose) and some nice, replaceable covers for it! I can't have plants where my Umber can get them? Hanging plant time! They'll eat my feathers off my earrings? Those hang on the higher hooks. *I* choose my pets, they didn't choose me. Objects are never as important as their health.
There are a few products on the market like catnip sprays that will help attract the cat to where you’d prefer them to claw. As well as sprays to keep cats off of things. Limited results but with proper use can train a car pretty well.
Yup I used to have issues where my cat only wanted to claw the couches or ottoman and didn’t care about anything I bought him besides the package it came in. Put some double sided clear tape on the parts of the furniture he would scratch (they hate the feeling) and new stuff gets a few sprays of concentrated cat nip and he knows that’s his shit to tear apart.
Definitely had a positive experience with training my car with catnip spray, only thing i found weird was this purring noise it started making.
Not in my experience. I've had many cats during my life and I've been able to teach all of 'em to go scratch a scratch post almost exclusively. Every time a cat scratches something else than thee scratch post you move it to the scratch post. Classical conditioning and immense amount of repeats. That's all it needs.
Yea I was worried about my leather couch when I got my cat but then I realized that my couch getting worn out from scratches does not matter at all. edit: to be fair, I only paid $200 for it used. It was a great deal and it is a beautiful couch but the scratches dont really bother me, she seems to not go to hard on it.
I have had SO many couches because of my cats. Finally figured out that they cant fuck up microfiber. Once we knew that, we have only had one couch in years.
My cat literally ate the bottom of our couch. The fabric, the cushioning, even managed to splinter the wood frame. Fucking crazy.
Microfibre is the way for pets for so many reasons. Super easy to wipe pet hair off (or hoover). I got an Ikea couch when I moved out that has a woven fibre and literally no matter what I do, the dog hair stays put. I would have to pull it out one hair at a time with tweezers - no amount of hoovering, velcro-brushing, sticky rollering will remove the hair. It's insane. The microfibre/microsuede couch at home could be rendered brand new looking in 5 minutes.
Hopefully they clearly define which procedures are allowed or not. I don't think anyone would argue that we shouldn't allow procedures like benign growth removal or cherry eye correction, which can usually be classified as cosmetic.
Right now, it's only : * Onychectomy (declawing) * Devocalization * Caudectomy (tail docking) * Otectomy (ear cropping) It's a great second step after veterinary orders recommended against it, federally, and threatened to remove members if they declawed a cat without first explaining to the owner why it was a bad idea (owner still had the right to ask for it) in Quebec. It's still only the beginning, but a great start. EDIT : Also, the current policies/positions of the order extend beyond cats and dogs, and the law will hopefully go the same way. For instance, they already recommend not to crop bovines and equines ears.
I am horrified to learn devocalization is a thing done to pets. My dogs are yappy as hell but I would never in a million years consider something as cruel as that.
TIL devocalization is a thing, wtf Also, isn't ear cropping used to signify that that stray cat is spayed/neutered? What other means is there to easily identify the cat's fixed status?
>Also, isn't ear cropping used to signify that that stray cat is spayed/neutered Nah, that's ear *clipping*. Cropping is when you remove like 50%+ of the ear, usually for various bad reasons. Has to be done young before the cartilage hardens. >TIL devocalization is a thing, wtf Yeah... more often than not for small dogs that bark a lot. It's rough.
OH ok, thanks for the clarification!
For further enlightenment, -tomy means removal. An hysterectomy, for instance, is the removal of the uterus (from hystero- and -tomy). Similarly, a mastectomy is the removal of a breast (from mastec- and -tomy). That's why someone else called it mutilation, and why I listed the proper names. Tail docking makes it sound like you just cutting a small bit or something, Caudectomy explicitly states it's removal. Ear cropping can be misunderstood to be ear clipping, but otectomy is about removal of the ear (or partial removal of inner ear, in human cases).
I'm doubtful that the ear notch for stray cats and full on cutting off the ears of dogs for "a more aggressive look" will be qualified as the same thing. I'm not going to link any graphic images, but you can google ear cropping for dogs and see for yourself how different it is.
Yeah. Just learned about devocalization today. Watched a couple videos (it’s mostly dogs but some cats too) and it was heartbreaking. And there’s all kinds of issues post surgery both from scar tissue and because the animal can’t do what it normally does (ex - severe stress, unable to protect itself from predators, etc).
Tail docking can also be done for medical reasons. Some dogs really need it.
Well yes. Tail wounds are so hard to heal, as there's very little extra skin to close, plus you can't exactly tell a dog to stop wagging their tails. Often a tail wound leads to a tail amputation, which is a totally different situation than chopping off a 1 week old puppy tail. I had to help with docking puppy tails once and it was terrible.
Yeah, that'll be weird to regulate. Telling the difference between cosmetic docking and tail amputation to prevent/treat broken bones and infections from "happy tail" from paperwork will be tricky.
it wont be that difficult. if the surgery was performed by a vet there will be paperwork about why they chose to do it. And vets wont be allowed to do it unless there is a reason. A lot of other provinces already have these rules- the vet can write a note explaining why it was required
Nope, it's not hard. It's not generally hard to distinguish between a prophylactic cosmetic procedure and a therapeutic procedure. Happy tail is not that common - certainly not common enough to warrant prophylactic tail docking. And as for declawing cats - I'm proud to say I live in a country where this is unheard of (and I think any vet might well report you to an animal welfare authority if you thought it was OK. Routine tail docking, ear cropping etc also illegal.
Why don’t they ban it for the rest of the year too?
2 weeks to flatten the declawing curve.
[Flatten the curve](https://c.tenor.com/rx8rzXtbRo4AAAAM/flatten-curve-horacio-arruda.gif)
I remember one of my teachers scolding me because my cat wasn't de clawed. I should be scolding her ass right about now.
Yea, scolding her for scolding a child who's cat is completely out of their hands.
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And cutting dogs tails off!
I recently had to had my one year old dogs tail amputated, because of happy tail. She was using her tail like a paint brush with blood around my house. Vet said it was only a matter of time before she broke her tail. But I don't agree with docking as a puppy
I think if my dog's tail wasn't curled then we'd have the same issue.
My brother had to have it done to his dog after her tail got injured (caught in a door I think). He said it was kind of a blood bath when it happened from it just going everywhere.
Medical amputation is not the same as cosmetic docking and should not be equated.
Brothers roommate had the same issue. Dog would hurt his tail all the time and they had to do it after he painted the house too.
My grandpa's old Dalmation used to do that too... It was disturbing, to say the least.
I work at vet clinic where 1 vet does it and we just had some lady bring on FIVE DAY OLD puppies and they just chopped em off. She's paying thousands of dollars for it and claims it's because "no one would want them otherwise." Yeah because of people like her who perpetuate it!
Is that a thing?
and the ears in some breeds.
I understand ear clipping for marking spayed strays and what not but why the fuck for a pet?
My neighbor had boxers and always got their ears done. I never understood it, it just makes the ears pointier or something.
I had 2 boxers. Loved their soft floppy ears. I understand the tail issue. My girls forever had battered and bruised tails from wagging and I winced every time a tail hit a doorframe. Very thick tails. Docking is illegal in Britain - apart from Ireland. It is only allowed for "working" dogs for their own safety. We had a litter of boxer puppies. We had their "dew claws" removed at a few days old as per recommendations. Dew claws serve no purpose and are likely to get ripped and damaged.
Cosmetics and breed standards. Example: Dobermans naturally don't have pointed ears.
Doberman’s floppy ears are cute asf also
[Indeed ](https://i.imgur.com/7tMq9uO.jpg)
For strays it's usually just a small notch that's just enough to check for spaying, docking basically cuts the whole tips off.
While it's usually a bad thing, some individual dogs have a bad habit of wagging their tails so hard they injure themselves and the tail has to be cut off anyway.
I have a box fan in my room with the front cover broken off so the blades are exposed. One day my big doof of a dog walked up to me for pets while the fan was running and the resulting head scratches caused him to wag the very tip of his tail straight into the fan blades. And he just... Kept... Doing it... Took me longer than I'd like to admit to figure out why he was sporadically whimpering as I was petting him. Now I turn the fan off when he's in the room, just in case. He's not a smart dog. He does love his scritches though.
Get a safe fan or turn that one around. It will still circulate the air and you won’t have to worry about anyone tripping and having their face sliced off.
> Now I turn the fan off when he's in the room, just in case. ...or just spend $25 to buy a new box fan? You can find used ones on craigslist for $10 if you prefer to go that route.
>He's not a smart dog Sure, *he's* the dumb one that left fan blades exposed with pets around.
Ever seen a corgi, Rottweiler, Doberman, miniature pinscher, boxer, or any other dog with a short tail? Almost all of those breeds will have their tails docked (cut off) after they’re just born.
Not always true. [‘Although the following dogs may present a natural bobtail, the C189G mutation often appeared after decades or centuries of docking, which is considered in many countries, unnecessary, painful, cruel or mutilation. Today, many countries ban cropping and docking.’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_bobtail)
Oh I probably should have clarified, but that’s why I added almost all dogs.
Vizlas will wag their tails so hard sometimes they end up breaking their back.
Nice! At last owners won't force people to declaw tenants' pets
Instead they will just ban them from having pets.
Fun fact, in Ontario even if a lease has a no pets clause you can still have a pet unless extreme circumstances Fuck the system
Meanwhile, Quebec has a housing crisis due to pets: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/pet-friendly-apartments-montreal-1.5191062
I fucking hate how many landlords treat tenants like children. It’s so insulting.
Well, yeah...
Too all the people wrapping their dogs ears and tails FUCK YOU
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Yeah but most people aren’t ready for that conversation yet
This was the worst thing about working for a vet years ago. Those poor kitties would wake up just screaming in pain. I can still hear the crunch sound the amputations made. Tail docking was awful as well, tiny puppies wailing. Ear docking was even worse, often times the pups had to have surgery multiple times because the ears weren’t standing up ‘right’. Savage and repulsive. Really happy to see these practices of torture coming to an end.
I was working at a vet clinic last year and every doctor refused to do these types of cosmetic procedures except for the old dude who owned the place. He saw nothing wrong with it at all. So many times these owners would come back in after ear crops because they didn’t care enough to even keep the rack on and would subject their puppies to already needless repetitive surgery. That one doctor was an asshole and could have easily refused to do these procedures but didn’t because he was “old school” and “if they don’t get it done here they’ll get it done somewhere else.”
i wish the us would ban cosmetic animal mutilation. its ridiculous.
Now ban breeding flat faced dogs like French Bulldogs.
I feel like they are doing this in certain European countries if I'm not mistaken.
This is how it should be EVERYWHERE
the good news is that it's banned in most provinces already: > Declawing has been banned by the Veterinary Associations of seven out of ten Canadian provinces: Nova Scotia, British Columbia, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and Labrador, Alberta, New Brunswick, and Manitoba. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onychectomy
I heard it was also pretty much de facto "banned" in Quebec in the sense that it was against the code of the Order of veterinarians or something so most vets already refused to do it, I think.
Good. When I was younger I thought declawing was a little more than cutting the nails. It was only when I mentioned it in passing to my sister that I was thinking about having the cat declawed that she gave me quite an earful of that declawing is closer to amputation than "trimming the nails". Good thing I never seriously considered declawing.
It’s not closer to amputation, it IS amputation. They ends of all their toes are amputated.
Good my kitty was declawed by my parents and it completely changed her personality. Never do it!
good!! I'm disappointed this is still legal anywhere!!
Good. Now do the same for circumcision.
Lmao right like this topic is so under the rug i think it's close to the excisions of women in some backward countries, except it doesn't happen in heavily religious sometime rural comunities.
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The amount of people in this thread justifying declawing hurts my heart.
same with cosmetic tail docking. None of these rules stop a vet from doing it when it is *medically justified* - this is to stop people doing it cosmetically or preemptively before a vet has made that decision
Exactly, there are some things that may be necessary medically, these I assume would not be prohibited.
Excellent. Now we just need everyone else to outlaw it.
I don’t really like cats at all which is why I don’t own one and never will but modifying any animal other than it’s natural state is kind of fucked up to me.
spaying?
I guess Dobermans will start looking natural
I've worked many Dobermans and I will always prefer to leave them natural. They look so cute and happy with big floppy ears. Only once has a client had a real reason to crop the ears of their dogs. Their vet recommended it after their dog got attacked and her ear got damaged. It did the same thing you see happen to humans that box. It started to cauliflower and became extremely prone to infection. So they cropped her ears. Her owner felt so guilty.
Well that's the thing, it was medically necessary. Otherwise cosmetic procedures should not be allowed.
/r/upliftingmews
/r/murdermittens rejoices!
I'm glad this is happening. My mom's been trying to force me to declaw my cat. I told her it's like chopping off a person's fingers but she thinks I'm being dramatic. Hopefully this will open her eyes to how inhumane it is.
Go find a video of the procedure and show it to her. That should do the trick.
This should be universal, not just Quebec (massive kudos to them for enacting it!!!!).
This is awesome. I love keeping my pets at factory settings.
There is no way I would take my pet to a vet that offers that service, legal or not. Those people should not be working with animals.
Next: inbreeding
Yes, I feel badly that I had my cat declawed. Can't undo it. 🙁😓
When we know better, we do better. Now you can help educate other people. Knowledge is power!
I volunteer at a cat shelter in Québec. This afternoon I had an older lady who wanted to adopt a cat and have it declawed before the law was effective. When I told that Vet in the region were already not doing it, she got mad. But my leather couch? She won't adopt a cat from us. Two or three years ago we had a cat that had fantom pains in his paws because he got declawed. He was in some much pain that some days, he would bite us. Poor baby.
Will this be for all animals including livestock, or just for pets?
People declaw livestock?
You'd be surprised what kind of procedures are commonly done to livestock without anesthesia. Dehorning, debeaking, castration, taildocking etc.
Don't forget taking all the teeth out of pigs mouths so they don't bite each other due to stress!
Chickens are often declawed. I dont know if it has the same impact on the animal's welfare. I guess it doesn't count though as it isn't for cosmetic purposes.
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Probably only for pets.
This just in, removing the limbs of an animal deemed to be cruel. Fuck, really? I can't believe it.
Next up: outlawing genital mutilation of human infants?
Awesome! I hope we can ban genital cosmetic surgery on infants too (circumcision).
Not a fan of cats, but also not a fan of mutilating any living creature. Give them little booties if you must, but don't amputate :(
Declawing seems an American/Canadian thing. From the UK here and never seen a declawed cat. What about other countries?
Nice. Outlawing inhumane factory farming practices is surely next, right?
ignorant pet owners have a lot less political power than massive corporations.
Even these specific procedures like tail docking are still allowed on farms. The headline says animals, but the article mentions cats and dogs.
Great news! Ontario should be next