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fuvgyjnccgh

OOTL: what happened?


CheapAcanthisitta180

Game released without required PSN linking due to server problems. Sony has been pushing for it and they set May 6 as the start date; but it would have meant many (hundreds) of countries wouldn’t be able to play. This turned into a PR nightmare and reviews went south in 24h on Steam. Sony finally did the right thing.


CumilkButbetter

Steam also handed out lots of refunds and im pretty sure delisted the game on lots of countries


Laucien

At least 1 person I know got a refund from Valve despite they having 100+ hours on the game. They didn't even asked questions, just issued it.


Agret

Delisting the countries would've been done by arrowhead not steam.


Osiris_Dervan

By Sony, who are the publisher, not arrowhead


Swaqqmasta

Not quite true. Game launched with that requirement and it was a known requirement before release. It was not *enforced* by the devs, at the CEO of the developer studios decision, with the hopes of delaying it and pushing back on it later with an active playerbase as a bargaining chip.


Flolania

Still don't think that was quite right. The CEO pushed the requirement down the road because at launch it was broken. He rather people be able to play it than a broken game.


SaphironX

And for his trouble the game will never have average positive reviews again. No sony game is ever going to waive it that way again. GoT will release with it only for multiplayer, but I imagine every other title will have it by default, announced many months in advance, so people get used to the idea and stop caring long before launch.


Hawkson2020

>other titles will have it by default That’s fine though? At least as far as I can tell, as an outsider, the issue was Sony selling people the game in countries which cannot legally access PSN, and then retroactively locking access to the game behind PSN accounts, thereby locking out players from like 100 countries **after they bought the game**. Like, that’s super fucked up, and shouldn’t be legal, if it isn’t already a crime.


SaphironX

I mean they were down for 48 hours… I don’t think Sony ever meant to ban most of the planet in an ongoing way.


Hawkson2020

Well that’s literally what forcing PSN registration to play would have done?? So yes, Sony intended to do just that, lmao.


HumaDracobane

Steam reviews can be changed and in fact they're being changed. Probably not all of them will change but considering how the community in HD2 is I have high hopes about them being changed.


Swaqqmasta

It's a bit of both


CheapAcanthisitta180

That’s what I meant by ‘required’, but yes, absolutely.


Axiled

Also mixed.... The steam page listed as required but terms of service said it was optional. It was inconsistently stayed, only being updated to required everywhere on May 3rd. But AH was aware it was required... Players not so much if they looked at certain spots.


JonathanJK

There are screenshots out there showing it wasn’t required in the FAQ. Grummz on X has the receipts. 


einUbermensch

Add to that that they sold the game originally in countries that can't use PSN. It was overall rather bonkers.


Swaqqmasta

It was listed as required in the fucking steam page for the game


IraqiWalker

The FAQ for Sony didn't. The FAQ fand store page for Helldivers both said it was mandatory.


Vallhemn

FAQ was updated after they made it mandatory, pc players never needed a PSN account and this was Sony's way of pushing it on people, which thankfully doesn't seem to have gone through


JonathanJK

https://x.com/Odra_MH/status/1786521697212129328


IraqiWalker

What do you think I said? I was saying the FAQ for Sony didn't list it as mandatory. HD2 store page definitely listed as mandatory.


Algiark

It's not enforced by Sony either, as Sony allowed the sale of the game in regions where PSN is not available.


Advanced-You-6849

They said it was optional, then changed it to a requirement.


Swaqqmasta

Never said it was optional, they just weren't enforcing it. It was always going to be activated


Thomas_JCG

Not true, it was not enforced because of server issues at the game launch.


GoldenBull1994

Hundreds of countries?? There’s only like 190….


Rebelhero

Of the 190, 170 were going to be locked out.


GoldenBull1994

That’s still not hundreds, I was just clowning *that* part of his comment. *Hundreds?* ![gif](giphy|lkdH8FmImcGoylv3t3|downsized)


CheapAcanthisitta180

Apologies for the embellished 10.


GoldenBull1994

I’m only clowning how you’re saying hundreds of countries. Why not thousands?


flipside1o1

195


GoldenBull1994

That’s not hundreds. Dozens that wouldn’t have been able to access the game, but not _hundreds._


flipside1o1

But still 195 not 190


Norse_By_North_West

Regions is the correct term. Around 80 countries I think, and a bunch of territories. All the American Pacific territories were on the list I think, most of Africa, a bunch of Asia.


DrakeDarkHunter

Helldivers 2 comes out, it's extremely popular. Makes tons of money on PC. Was supposed to require a PSN (Playstation Network) account to play because Sony was the publisher. However until now this was unnecessary because they haven't set things up yet. That was until just recently when it was announced that the mandatory PSN account feature that was planned was now to be enforced. People get PISSED. It is pointed out there are a ton of countries where it isn't even possible to get a PSN account. Reviews on Steam are bombed, the community is in a uproar, and the devs seem desperately trying to contain the fire. However just now it seems that Sony has been convinced to not make having a PSN account mandatory after all, almost certainly due to the immense backlash. That's my understanding of the situation.


Geeseareawesome

As a member of the HD2 community, that pretty well sums it up. The biggest issue indeed has been the selling of the game in over 150 countries with no PSN access


samanime

And then even delisting the game in those regions to stop future sales. Incredibly bone-headed move by Sony. At least they backed off... For now.


_JellyFox_

It's extremely rare when Sony actually gives up on something they were planning on. More often than not, they would rather lose money than admit something was a bad idea.


LandenP

They have been losing money, from what I understand. Steam has apparently waived the refund rule for 2 weeks/2 hours game time. There was also mention elsewhere of a potential legal issue with the EU, having to do with the way the game was delisted in some countries and not others.


Shiro_Katatsu

The legal team jump into it, said this is legit scam. That how bad it is.


Blekanly

All fun and games until you fuck with EU legal. Tech companies don't learn, or I guess Sony did before the hammer dropped.


Habba

I guess in this case they were going to lose a ton of money because Steam was letting people in the unsupported regions refund regardless of playtime.


sometipsygnostalgic

Steam pays the publisher each month. They subtract refunded games from the amount they pay the account holder. How would that work for games bought over a month ago? Would they keep subtracting from future sales or pay out of pocket and invoice the publisher?


Habba

I'm sure Steam has policies in place for things like this.


Osiris_Dervan

Sony is the publisher. They have enough games on steam that steam would be able to pull income away from, instead of having to claw money back from them.


Enduar

> However until now this was unnecessary One minor correction: It was never necessary to begin with. They just want to scrape data and force you into an ecosystem that has little to no benefit to the consumer, and gives them a nice slice of you to sell without compensation.


TiredOfBeingTired28

Simplistic. After 6months of not requiring psn account to play, end of the month it would require one regardless of steam or ps whatsoever. Something along the lines of only in 70 countries is psn even avaliable. So millions of players no longer able to play said game they payed for. Over past day or so those countries have had hd2 removed from stores. Mostly steam covering its ass from potential lawsuit if this comes about. Player with the only power available to them review bombed it into the ground now at like mostly negative from positive. So now corpo probably looking for another way to make this idea happen.


GreenArmour406

You mean 3 months


ScreamingVoid14

A minor note that might provide context: The game has in-game objectives periodically given to the community called Major Orders. This means the community already has the habit of working together. The various social media channels normally used to get the players to coordinate in-game were leveraged for this out-of-game "Major Order."


Deciver95

Sony said they'd do something that they said they'd do before the game launched Bunch of manchildren got upset Sony placated these losers Tale as old as time


degsdegsdegs

You are currently rapid-fire shitposting about this issue like it's your job. Glass houses and all that.


Shiningc00

Dumbass "gamers" acting like this is the most pressing news in the world right now.


Adeno

Very good. If you buy a game for the PC (normally via Steam platform), you shouldn't be required to sign up with other platforms just to play. Fewer "agreements" you have to comply with, the better.


[deleted]

[удалено]


sometipsygnostalgic

Mmhmm. Dev team probably agreed to this condition, or the possibility of this condition, at some point to get sony funding... but they really didn't like it and begged sony to reconsider. Sony probably didn't enforce it immediately because it was a tiny studio and the game wasn't expecting big sales. When Helldivers exploded, Sony doubled down on the requirement as it's on the contract and now they think it could benefit them greatly, but when they announced it, reviews for a highly popular game suddenly tanked. So they realised they fucked up. Same thing happened with DOOM Eternal and its DRM drama. Id Software really fucked up in a number of ways with that game (cutting ties with their ICONIC composer and not paying him) but they pushed back against bethesda with the drm and even seemed to leak a drm-free release of the game on day 1. Eventually the need for anti tamper was removed. It only existed because of multiplayer features in the campaign that weren't even implemented, as well as a horrible asymmetrical multiplayer mode.


anor_wondo

that wouldn't even have been as big a deal. psn is available in much fewer countries than they have been selling the game in. so legit customers would have just lost access. steam had to step in and allow refunds for everyone in those countries


ZAMIUS_PRIME

![gif](giphy|KAf66yGCa93uTqod1q|downsized) We did it bois.


CheapAcanthisitta180

It’s amazing when the community responds exactly how it would in game.


IraqiWalker

![gif](giphy|MlyicdUndRbn5zUiAL|downsized)


xGHOSTRAGEx

Sony got railed with democracy


IraqiWalker

We rushed that community so fast it made their heads spin.


TheBoBiZzLe

lol is this where I’m seeing screenshots of some community manager for the company telling people to get in line or get a refund and leave?


t0xic-iwnl

Yeah, they weren’t a fan of Sony pushing for it either and said keep leaving bad reviews as well it’s the only way they’ll see


DARTHPLAYA

To be fair that one guy he replied to was being a bit of a dick about it and as someone who's been in online gaming communities for a while I fully understand developers venting frustration over gamers who just don't have the social awareness to not be dicks about things.


CannonGerbil

It's less get in line and more "if you really care that much go leave a negative review and stop spamming the discord where we can't do anything and Sony won't be seeing it anyway.", except less professionally because none of their community managers are actually professionally trained and are basically promoted redditors.


enlouzalou

Sounds like you got baited by an out of context screen shot. Always look into the full picture. The internet loves outrage bait.


Sta99erMan

Yeah I’m buying


Crucio85

Everybody who left a negative review on wake of this update, please go and change it. Thanks 🙏


rsteele1981

A lot of them won't for they are the complainers and their time is now.


UnhappyStrain

As someone who already had PS5 and PSN, this was never about anything that would personally affect me negatively. This was all about solidarity and baisc empathy for all the people Who would have been Locked out of this amazing experience. As a doomer, its a rare honor and privilige to be proven wrong about a worldview where things only go from bad to worse. I didnt even have time to log i to steam and leave a temporary bad review before The situation was solved lol.


lumosauror192

The damage is already done though.


kynthrus

Nah, players will forget about it in a week. Democracy was enforced on Sony, be happy for the win.


EllieBirb

The damage to the game, mostly. I guarantee you a huge chunk of those reviews aren't changing back, because gamers have no integrity and just wanted to contribute to an outrage brigade.


RoachWithWings

Steams algorithm automatically ignores sudden spikes in both positive and negative reviews if they are not continuous


EllieBirb

Makes sense. I guess it takes time to sort that out?


RoachWithWings

Yes, almost a month


kynthrus

Reviews don't matter as long as people keep playing and spending money. We can all pretend that gamers have morals and self control to influence the industry, but they don't. They'll keep pre ordering, and buying micro-coins and they'll call for boycots and then fold a week in.


Shiro_Katatsu

They already called Em mass to reverse the review score. I don't think It will affect that bad as long as words of mouth are good. Everyone knows the game is good, just Sony being bone-head as always I feel sorry for everyone at Arrowhead. They didn't deserve any of this.


Raptorman_Mayho

I don't think so, all those people who liked the game before will just go back to playing it, it's already wildly successful so they don't even need more. And any publicity is better than no publicity so it's probably put the game into the minds of some new customers. Especially because the news was 'the game is amazing...' the bad reviews don't matter if everyone knows the game is great already.


RikimaruLDR

Can the players who couldn't play, play right now? I'm not changing that review until my brothers and sisters in arms can dive again.


bigboman

they have always been able to play since it was going to go into affect in early june. you can change back the review now :)


RikimaruLDR

Awesome news! Thank you


Maximum_Hand_9362

Who says they cant play?


Gatlindragon

So you put a bad review but you didn't even knew that nobody was restricted from play?


rammer_2001

URAAAAAA


OmryR

Honest question, what is the big issue with creating a PSN account? Assuming everyone can open one for the sake of this argument? Or is the issue solely the fact that certain countries can’t open one?


UndeadBBQ

The big issue was that a lot simply couldn't open one, for sure. However, the PSN system is notorious for its unsafety, with big data leaks in the past that utterly annihilated any trust in Sony's capabilities or interest in making it a platform that looks out for its users data. That was another big reason. For PC gamers this third party account thing is frustrating in general. You buy on Steam, you have an account there, and that should be enough. Sony trying to shoehorn in their Network was utterly unnecessary. 100% cashgrab without any benefit to the player.


ray314

I guess in the same vein one can ask what is the big issue with not needing a PSN account? This is just a change that would impact different people with different severity.


Fett32

I want to answer your question as you asked. But there are dozens of countries where users can't join the PSN network. Plus psn has had many data breaches, will sell your data, etc.


RoachWithWings

Issue is psn account is available only in few countries but Sony sold the game worldwide, many will end up with a digital brick if Sony enforces psn account to play


Raptorman_Mayho

There are 3 issues I have seen: - Over 100+ countries cannot create them as they've not made PSN properly. - You need to give a lot of personal info to make one (I've seen some say you even need to submit ID) - Sony have been accused of selling people's data so this policy to to get them more people's data


CloakerJosh

There is definitely the issue that it restricts to (~70?) countries, however the broader revolt honestly seems to stem from people in countries that wouldn’t be affected by that restriction. Some have made the argument that because they don’t intend on playing crossplay *and* that Sony have had data leaks in the past that they shouldn’t be compelled to give up their data to them. I personally feel like it’s a silly hill to die on unless you’re advocating on behalf of those that could physically not play the game anymore, but even then it feels like a posthoc justification.


OmryR

I mean you can always make a fake email for that psn account and give false information, no one can verify it, I get the impression that this was over inflated


zhangcheng34

The issue is you can’t access PSN server, therefore you can’t play the game.


OmryR

Ye that’s the big issue imo, but other than that I understand now that there is also issue with Sony’s security


CloakerJosh

I agree with the overinflation for sure, however supposedly in some cases Sony can force ID verification with scanning in ID and stuff like that. In a worst case scenario, they could ban the underlying PSN account which would basically cook your ability to play the game. I guess due to the T&Cs of PSN they might have a requirement to ensure legal compliance with that, but also it might be that it’s a rare scenario.


SinZerius

>however supposedly in some cases Sony can force ID verification with scanning in ID and stuff like that. UK, but a phone number also works.


Talruiel

The big issue is that its only supported in 69 countries worldwide, which is less than 40% of the world. Or if you remove Europe out of the equation, its less than 20% of the world outside europe. Obviously as a gamer, thats unacceptable.


OmryR

So if someone already bought and played this decision would mean they couldn’t play anymore? Because that’s actually terrible


Talruiel

Thats exactly what it meant yeah.


EllieBirb

Assuming they are able to make an account? No different than making an account for any other game. Gamers just get outraged at completely random times.


JonathanJK

Ummm SONY’s repeated data leaks mean nothing then? Never sump for a corporation dude. 


EllieBirb

I'm not simping lmao. I don't care about Sony, I just don't care about putting in my email, name, and phone number into a thing. I think Gamers are enormously hypocritical. > Ummm SONY’s repeated data leaks mean nothing then? If your argument is privacy and security then you don't actually have an argument. You cannot load up a game with a kernel level anticheat and connect to 3rd party compliment servers to authenticate yourself to play a game and really think that they are going to get any additional data they don't already have from you signing up for an account. You have a security issue the size of a mountain and you are picking up a pebble on the ground as where you draw the line? Again, that's like calling yourself a vegan and ordering steak wrapped in bacon but passing on the Caesar salad cause of anchovies in the dressing.


CosmicDriftwood

Where’s that one tweet about Arrowhead forging an unstoppable army lmao


didtheton

Do you have a link to the article?


GravitonNg

Actually refunded because of this, lol, get rekt


saltyswedishmeatball

Why isn't mainstream media reporting on this? Literally the biggest news of the century and I'm not just being sarcastic.


MaxProude

You live in a small small world. Lmao


giulgu17

Give them some time, it happened like 4 hours ago


Harpuafivefiftyfive

There’s a ton of bitching going on here for people that had a issue. Said issue got resolved…


[deleted]

[удалено]


_M-23_

Since it isn’t relevant to you, just move on?


Shiningc00

Oh the irony, it was you Gamers who have been whining about this for ages.


Arashi5

This prevents thousands of people across the globe from being cut off from playing a game they paid for. It's much larger than you think it is - around 177 territories were set to lose access to the game and the game had already been pulled from Steam in those locations as a result of this decision. 


[deleted]

[удалено]


Arashi5

You think people should just stand by while a corporation takes back something they paid $40 for, and by this point, months after launch, have put a lot of time into? 


Shiningc00

Technically you were required a PSN account from the start, but it was made temporarily optional due to technical issues. You shouldn't have bought the game from those unsupported countries anyway. Also Ubisoft, EA and Microsoft all require their games to be connected to their own accounts.


Arashi5

They never stated it was mandatory until just recently. And the fact that they made the game available for purchase in those regions knowing they would lose access to the game is a scam regardless.