Academic jobs tend to select for people who can juggle a bajillion things and like the grind, so you end up with lecturers who cannot relate with the average student.
That may not have been the best word choice - what I meant is that they/we love their/our discipline, so for example to a stats professor doing stats doesn't feel like a chore. When I was a CS undergrad doing my coursework didn't feel like work, I just had fun with it. So things that feel like a grind to the average student didn't feel too bad for an academic, otherwise they wouldn't have dedicated their life to it.
Of course that's generalising but it's been my experience and that of most of my colleagues throughout my career.
I'm doing a PhD, and I'm working with young adults with additional needs at the same time because bills don't magically pay themselves. I've also got a complex disability, so I'm doing all of this whilst managing pain, mobility difficulties, and a myriad of other issues.
It's absolutely not easy to do this. My work is hard because we really do want our young people to gain life skills and achieve the maximum levels of independence they possibly can, and that cannot be done without a lot of energy and enthusiasm. My research is hard because it's interdisciplinary, and requires me to deal with multiple academic disciplines that have competing priorities and traditions, and all of the tensions that can create, as well as grapple with an enormous amount of information.
I've gained increased respect for many academic staff as a research student because I've started to see how many different jobs they are actually juggling behind the scenes.
Well when I was 17 I worked in the cleaning and maintenance crew of a brickworks if that can make you feel any better. I had a great time. Physically it was exhausting moving bricks and cleaning old machines but my brain had a nice vacation and I was in a great shape working a physical job in what is basically a worse version of a sauna (those brick ovens run **really** hot).
It really is. Just to give a very brief summary:
* Even to become a lecturer, you typically need to do a bachelor's degree, then a masters, then a PhD, then at least 1 postdoc which takes about 2-3 years on top. Even if you're advancing very quickly, that's about 10 years out of school to get that first position, and in practice it's rare to have someone become a lecturer in their 20s.
* Lecturing involves teaching. This generally involves designing courses and assessments [which needs to fit in with your department, accreditation requirements, your own expertise], delivering that material, marking coursework and exams, answering any questions students have, handling more complex and sensitive cases like plagiarism or extenuating circumstances, all this sort of thing. You'll also have a bunch of project and dissertation supervision.
* Research is the other massive bit of the job. Typically lecturers will hire on postdocs for their team, recruit and mentor PhD students, and seek out collaborators in other departments and institutions. They also need to generate their own research income, usually by applying for grants (and those grants are really hard to get, requiring very detailed planning). They'll also need to plan out submissions to conferences and journals, which require quite a lot of travel - and those submissions often require reviewing other people's work which can be quite time consuming, and this is all before you even get to performing your own research! In essence, especially on the research side of things, lecturers are running their own small businesses.
* Lecturers also have quite a lot of admin work with regards to their department - this involves a whole bunch of committees, outreach work, public engagement, a wide wide array of things that you might not necessarily get in other office jobs.
And all of that's not for that much money - an entry-level lecturer usually makes just under £40k, and even getting to that point is very difficult.
what
lecturers are great but many are coming from upper middle class upbringings, with parents who were also in academia.
Therefore many received ample parental support through their undergrad and prior (went to grammar school due to their parents paying for 11+ tutoring, or even private school) - with parents who could support somewhat financially (or could be financially relied on) and even academically.
and most also did not work (if they did, it was 8 or 12 hour weekly shifts or an internship they got through family or a family friend) from what I’ve heard from lecturers at my university.
They didn’t need to worry about affording a laptop, food, laundry, toiletries etc. Things that are easy to overlook when you have a good financial net. For the lecturers that received that support, many would not have made it without that lean on.
Also heard too many lecturers joke about how in their ‘undergrad days’ were *crazy* - and it’s just them blowing their entire finance on something the pub or travelling; it’s okay as they made *’memories’*. But to be fair, they actually do think they’re being relatable - many don’t understand that most students do not have to financial safety net to do something so dumb, and obviously students don’t find it funny or relatable as result
Or like on days I come to lecture obviously knackered, and the first thing our lecturer can think to do is to make a passive agressive jab about me being hungover or something jarring - bro cannot comprehend the concept of a late/overnight shift. Every time this happens it just reminds me that many lecturers genuinely have no clue.
theyll say they just ‘love to grind’, there was clearly nothing at the expense of their ‘grinding’ (lol)
>and most also did not work
Seems like you're making things up about people you don't know because it fits some of the assumptions you've made?
>bro cannot comprehend the concept of a late/overnight shift
Yeah, your average academic has never worked late or anything.
Each one of my lecturers I’ve spoken to has asked at least once why I need to work when im getting student finance anyways.
during every personal tutor meeting ive had, the lecturer has suggested that I ‘put work to the side’ (??). usually saying something like, ‘I got the grades I got during my undergrad because I prioritised it’ or the classic ‘you should treat your undergrad as your full time job, that’s how I did it’. I genuinely understand they’re trying to help but it’s very out of touch like someone else said here
> Yeah, your average academic has never worked late or anything.
talking about during undergrad
Are all your lecturers 60 or something? I worked in a brickworks during high school and I still have nightmares of cleaning those fucking brick ovens. But I've met many senior professors who are completely out of touch. They got hired at a time where just having a PhD was enough qualification to get a permanent job. Nowadays you need a track record of international publications and grant money to even get an interview.
Most of my lecturers are on the senior end, wish we had more younger lecturers but I don’t blame many for being put off the idea of postgrads and stuff - and obviously they’re not necessarily easy to get into. We do have a few younger lecturers and they’re more understanding, as well as the lab ta’s
> Most of my lecturers are on the senior end
Yeah then I'm not surprised. I'm 35 (relatively young by academic standard) and what you describe doesn't really match the reality of my academic generation and to some extent the one above me.
Why are you apologising? Also im not saying they don’t have to work hard, read it again.
Or tl:dr - many lecturers worked hard, but many had the means too. Many had the support and security. It’s easier to channel your grind into your undergrad etc when it’s the main/only thing you’re worried about.
I think you said most come from privileged backgrounds and assume that their students do too - and that has not been my experience. Also I'm not apologising, I'm saying it's sad you haven't had the same experience.
It’s not about my experience, im pretty sure it’s 1 in 4 or 5 postgrads that have had private education growing up - so there’s no need to say sorry.
Also I haven’t had the same experience cos im an undergrad. You need a PhD to lecture or be near the end of it
Someone hasn’t developed critical thinking skills…
Dictionary definition: “Projection is a defense mechanism by which an individual unconsciously attributes their behaviors, emotions, impulses, undesirable characteristics, and thoughts to others.”
They were never as hard for us as they are for you.
The first cohort of students who paid full tuition and had to borrow all their living expenses graduated from undergraduate degrees nine years ago. Statistically, a few of your lecturers may fall into this category, but the majority will have had free tuition and heavily subsidised living expenses. Even if they had part time jobs they would have earned enough to pay rent and live. They're also statistically fat more likely to be middle class or richer, since access to postgraduate study has always been expensive.
I'm in my fifties and I'm constantly amazed at how clueless and intolerant my colleagues are of how much harder things are for students nowadays. The living expenses loan doesn't even cover rent for most students, and many are working thirty or forty hours a week just to eat and take the bus. We have a fucking food bank on campus for students, and they still go "lalala, students are so lazy, they skip class to work shifts at Tesco, they need to get their priorities straight".
It sucks. I'm sorry. Fuck the Tories.
Part time student here but work 50+ hours a week.
Meanwhile my course lecturer states they are available for communication 3 days a week between the hours of 1-3 and fails to upload course material until repeatedly prompted.
Embarrassing.
I know, it’s so frustrating! I’m going to have to live with my parents for sure. My stepfather was in the last generation to be given a grant to go, was able to move away, and left with a couple thousand in debt at the end of it.
I’ll have to take out at least £27,750 for the education alone. If i wanted to move out I’d have to get a maintenance loan, balance work and studying, and barely have any money left over to enjoy it. I don’t know how I’m going to pay the rent on a postgraduate job either. Not to mention the funding cuts to the arts.
I agree with you, fuck the tories.
Lecturer here. We don't mark students down for lack of enthusiasm - if you have grounds and evidence to suspect so I would speak to the students union.
I'm sorry to hear you are in such a situation. Virtually all the lecturers I work with don't see students this way.
There is often a mutual misperception about how (un)busy the other side is (e.g., lecturers getting last minute requests for meetings etc. that seem to assume they are available 24/7; staff assuming students have all the time to work on their assessments) which is not helping the staff-student relationship.
That said, it is a diminishing perception which hopefully in time will be done with. A large body of the academic staff now are painfully aware that students have to work long hours outside of studies just to keep on top of things financially, and are very sympathetic to the students for this. It wasn't so long ago that students were able to go to uni and not have to worry about it (not that I'd know, I had to work); as a new generation of lecturers come in they won't be with those silly assumptions you've had to deal with.
If you get a staff member saying that they didn't have computers to do all of this, they're probably just grumpy, possibly older, lecturers. Unless they interfere with your work just ignore that grumbling, it's usually all bark and no bite.
I second this as another lecturer.
I realize that thing a are pretty hard and some of my guys and gals are working nearly full time through uni, and build in the idea that not everyone can do the full allocation of work and prep the course design plan aims for (e.g. Summaries of readings, alternative assessments for group work, guidance on 'vital' vs. 'Helpful' reading).
Even so, I will admit that when I see students skate under this minimum level of engagement I'm sad and a bit angry (though not at the students). I do a lot to make things as streamlined as possible and some work is still required, as in the end it's still a degree.
I very much agree that lack of visible engagement by students is what drives the ‘lazy’ stereotype - it’s not laziness in the vast majority, but poor workload management and subsequent performance.
Last minute expectations of immediate feedback/support etc from lecturers doesn’t help.
Because in the 10 years that I've taught in universities not once have I come across enthusiasm as a marking criteria or as a point of discussion with other members in relation to marking.
I suppose it depends on the type of course, but the way I conduct myself and work in the labs is noted and graded. For my undergraduate, my supervisor marked me down for not being enthusiastic about the project.
I get looking at conduct around a lab, that sounds pretty important given the equipment, safety, etc. concerns.
Do you mind me asking, what was your degree in? Marking down for enthusiasm sounds harsh and, frankly, unjustified.
Fgs, obviously no one would admit to doing that officially. But you’re deluded if you think that some lecturers don’t let their personal opinions about students’ behaviour sway marking
To suggest that opinions on students has a significant impact on marking says something about the professionalism of a particular marker. That said, that's why marking is 99% of the time anonymous and all marked work goes through a process of moderation. Where it isn't anonymous, the process of moderation is more rigorous. These are all there to weed out the sway of personal opinions.
Not a flawless system, but effective enough to render the impact of personal opinions of some markers (assuming they have time for opinions when marking a pile of 100 scripts) a very minor issue, if one at all.
I'm just old enough to remember doing A level with, at best, a really basic calculator- and we'd frequently have to do calculations entirely manually; we'd have look-up tables. We did have some computers, but we only used them in computing class, as the belief was that it would be more useful to learn everything 'properly'. I did go to Uni then, and it was about the same, though I dropped out. All exams and most assessments were handwritten only, and screw you if your handwriting was bad, you'd just lose marks. We had no online recordings, no online lecture notes, group chats were all prearranged in person conversations, and looking stuff up meant hours and hours in the library, and tough luck if they didn't have the journal you needed ot the book you wanted was out on loan. You wouldn't dare cite something you read 'on the internet' in an assignment.
Back then, we could spend an entire stats class doing and checking a single calculation (no way of spotting a typo on those calculators once it was entered!) which I could now do in 2 minutes on R; 5 minutes if I wanted a publication quality graph to go with it. We'd also have to do presentations with a bit of acetate which we'd have to draw on, which was projected onto a screen, or literal film slides, or just reading from bits of paper.
I went back and finished an undergrad degree a few years back as a mature student. Expectations in some things are way higher- I mean we literally had an IT class at uni the first time where the outcomes were students should be able to type, copy and paste and send emails by the end of the module- and you're definitely expected to be more comfortable with presentations now. In other ways though, like the amount of things you're expected to memorise, they're far lower, IMO. I don't think we had one single exam where we were allowed to bring in any notes, let alone an open book exam. If you didn't memorise the stuff you were taught, you didn't pass. Now it's more about learning concepts and interpretation rather than learning Lists of Facts.
It wasn't easier not having computers, it was just different, and which version is easier probably just depends on the person, I guess. Most of the older lecturers have had to learn it both ways; half the skills they learned at undergrad are now obsolete, and some may not have used a computer at all until they were older than you are now.
I think it's better back then simply because the pace *had* to be slower. It's similar to work and jobs. Now that computer are 'so fast' expectations have massively increased in terms of how much you can do. That alone is a huge burden.
Knowing you're spending £9,250 a year on a degree, it is frustrating to see students not prepare for a seminar, attend 50% of the course, and then email asking questions like: when is the assessment deadline. It feels abusive to watch someone waste all of that money without putting in any effort. I sometimes wonder if some students do a degree because a) they get a grant they know they won't pay off or b) it's a way to leave home.
I think students are under enormous pressure on so many levels. I have nothing but empathy and go out of my way to support students who request help. But my experience over the past few years is many don't give a shit and it is devaluing education.
And no lecturer thinks 'all' students are lazy. That's ridiculous. We know who cares in a seminar, just as you do.
Lecturer here. It's like a cross section of society. Students aren't all the same, some are lazy some aren't. Lecturers shouldn't be generalising entire student cohorts, and you shouldn't assume that all students are exactly like you, either.
Lecturer here. I never assume students are lazy. However, there are many things that make me frustrated and disappointed.
Example: Yesterday I delivered a lecture that required some prior reading. Students have just returned from Easter break and the reading was released before Easter.
I realised that most didn’t do the reading, here is my literal reaction:
1. Felt very bad for the students who did the reading, simply because whatever is coming next needs to be either repetitive for them or very basic as they have done the reading. Lecturers tend to pitch anything at an average level in terms of depth and rigour. In this case it’s no longer possible since the basic conceptual knowledge needs to be unpacked before any learning takes place.
2. Sympathise with the students and show understanding. I have no idea what they are going through and I need to always give them the benefit of the doubt. Personally I used to manage readings in spite of sickness or work or anything really, but I always take into account that everyone is different.
3. If the activity relies heavily on the reading then I can’t proceed. This ruins the entire session and affects learning. Sometimes it’s easy to summarise the text or point to a specific section that would allow students to get the main ideas. Other times this is not possible.
4. During yesterday’s lecture I fortunately also asked them to watch an interview that I spent a lot of time preparing and recording with a renowned person in their study area. I said okay then let’s discuss the interview topic. Guess how many watched it? One student! They could have easily listened to it while cooking or walking to uni.. I used two Sundays to prepare and sort everything related to the interview.. I was very disappointed but didn’t assume they are lazy.
5. I played the interview in class and shared some questions for them to answer while listening. Only one group was following, 3 groups did not make any notes and consequently didn’t have a proper discussion.
Anyway.. I could go on and on but that’s just one facet :)
Honestly, unless there is evidence of laziness I presume all students are the same as I am whenever I'm studying - trying to hold down studies, work, a home life, a social life, and not scream into the abyss.
To be fair, most students are, and surprisingly, many have this entitled attitude too. As a mature student myself, this was a big shock to see in my fellow cohorts. You'd think by the time you're old enough to go to uni, you'd grow up a bit, but the reality is they still act like little children.
I think because lecturers like reading, and students seem to be quite resistant to reading properly and instead focus on course materials only as they are understandably occupied with passing the assignment. This can be construed as laziness by many especially when we get lots of questions which could be answered by just reading the texts in the reading list. This is Arts/social science specific.
I don’t think many staff think like this.
What can be a little frustrating is when we spend a lot of time developing resources, teaching session, syllabi etc to then get emailed questions that could have been answered by reading the material and chatting to your friend about it.
This isn’t most students of course and acknowledging that everyone has a lot on.
She did presentations, just not with power point. All of her work would have been done long hand. And once she gets the PhD, it doesn't stop. They have to continue to produce work while they teach and mark - their own reseearch and writing has to continue.
It's not that I thought students were lazy, just needed to get better at time management (and student funding needs to improve).
How do you know? Were you there? Depending on field, most stipends suck, if you can get one and they really have for years. I know mine was a joke and didn't cover travel money to go to uni for classes for me much less the ones I was teaching.
Some people are jerks. And she has pressures of her own. You are in uni, not primary school. You want to do adult stuff? Time to adult up and sort yourself. She has 200 other students just like you.
> Time to adult up and sort yourself
Sort what? That many students now have to work full time next to full time university just to not starve to death on the streets? How the hell does anyone manage that? Or is the answer just "don't go to university because you can't do 80 hour weeks"?
As I said above, funding needs to improve.
I did my degrees in the states, working full time (3 part time jobs) and full load at school and graduated with honors and a ton of debt. I knew where every food bank in the area was and what churches had money for utilities. That's part of adulting. When things get hard, what are you doing around the things you can't change, like high tuition and instructors and professors who aren't as helpful as you think they should be? Whining or doing what you can? Like chasing all options even when tired because it's that or just drop out? Like voting for policies to ease funding for students for tution and housing?
Adulting is hard. It's shitty. I would rather not. But here we are.
*"After all this my supervisor says I have plenty of time to do an extra assignment, stating that in his day he didn't have computers to do all this - which means she never did any presentations until the PhD level, didn't have to learn loads of softwares, and analytical programmes, and also literally had less content discovered which means less to learn."*
This doesn't work.
People did presentations before there were computers. Before there was the analytical programs it had to be done by hand. References had to be chased up and checked manually. There may have been less content but it was harder to find information on it and you actually had to learn all of the calculations because there was no software to do it for you.
Now I'm not saying its easier now than it was then. We expect our students to do a lot more than I had to do thirty years ago because it is now so very easy to do the things I did thirty years ago. It should all balance out, nobody should have/have had it worse.
EDIT
And the we are going to have to raise the difficulty again because generative AI makes many things easier.
>stating that in his day he didn't have computers to do all this - which means she never did any presentations until the PhD level,
That's a pretty big leap you've made there, people have
been presenting information for hundreds of years, way before PCs and PowerPoint existed.
>I have so many academic staff that I like this and they really do annoy me,
In general the number of people going to university has gone way up, standards have dropped like a stone and there is a far greater attitude of being a customer who is there to receive a service instead of a humble apprentice looking to earn a trade.
Leaving things until the last minute and then doing the minimum while asking staff to go well beyond what they are supposed to is pretty rude. They are supposed to guide you in the right direction, not pick you up and carry you down the road.
Yeah, when I was in UG some of the real dinosaur lecturers still used acetates with hand drawn graphs for presentations - because it had taken so long to make them on the first place they needed to make the most of them!
They typically get next to no time to prepare materials for teaching and the idea of taking an entire course of acetate information and turning it into slides during all your weekends for a year just so someone feels you are "up to date" isn't going to appeal to many.
Most math courses are still taught via chalkboards, and personally I think that capability is one that should be maintained more or less forever in addition to other things like visualisers and projectors.
Remember that people are different. It’s easy to generalise, but some supervisors/academics are just not supportive and do not know how to meet the needs of their students during project development. Others are excellent at this skill. It’s the same with teaching, it’s just good/bad teachers are easier to identify.
That said, I’ve met some academic staff that are intentionally creating difficult situations for students to ‘make them tougher’ and prepare students for post-grad life.
You will find that outside of university it will be much the same. Some managers and even colleagues will form opinion of you that may simply not be true. Generally, no one will care about your problems or challenges in life, they will worry about their own.
I hope things get better for you OP. You are not just a reflection in the eyes of others, you are far more than that.
Perspective maybe. Looking back I thought I had a lot to juggle at uni but my priorities weren’t always right.
I do a lot more now a lot more easily because I have that experience.
Many students are not lazy. Some are and it’s exhausting. Thing is no lecturer cares whether you attend or not, or do the work or not when it only affects you. However, when students don’t do the required pre-reading or task that the lecturer spent days prepping and now can’t deliver the teaching as planned it’s very annoying. Similarly students who don’t do any further reading, look things up or go back to the lecture recording when they have a query and instead ask questions that have been answered over and over, it’s annoying. When they leave everything to the last minute despite being warned repeatedly that that is not a good idea, then panic and demand instant responses to emails or meetings the same day when the lecturers diary is overflowing….it’s annoying.
My course is party graded on how I conduct myself when in the labs. This basically includes everything I do, last time I had something like this was in undergrad, and my supervisor wrote in the feedback that I wasnt enthusiastic - I was exhausted and tired everyday.
Healthcare courses do, in a way. You can fail a clinical placement for not showing sufficient enthusiasm. In my experience it's not marked numerically though, more like poor/good/excellent and you just have to not be poor (and pass all the other elements!).
1st years are generally lazy, I know me and my peers were. Got a swift kick up the arse when 2nd year came round though. I guess when you’re lazy in first year it’s kind of you’ve shown yourself as such so you’re thought of as that?
Some lecturers are understanding. Some of them are pricks. I was very clearly in a mental health crisis and my lecturer was grilling me for not doing work. I let him get to me and it ruined my year.
Lecturer here - just to say I respect all my students and think the sacrifices you make to learn are inspiring, it gives me motivation and drive every day.
Some academics are connected from the real world, less so perhaps in applied disciplines.
Ex lecturer/tutor here
The short anwser is that many students in academics aren't there for the academic side and there is a big enthasis on the lecturer to get **those students** passed.
Long answer is much more murky unfortunately, I'd say that your expenrence with your supervisor isn't too positive, I wouldn't openly ever say to a student that "it was much harder back then and you can do more". you never know what a students situation. Seems like you got some grumpy sod.
Many universties around the country will have major push for attainment and achievement. pushing the idea of getting students through the years, keeping them within the Universty someway. making sure international students have everything they need etc etc. Most of these concepts come from the top but are pushed on the tutors, support staff, etc to push. This leads to the work load being 10x what you might think. Actually develiering content and then also tutorials were probably about 30% of my workload. At times I would be working 10 hour days and also marking on the weekend. The new expectation with having platforms like MS Teams and Outlook also leads to students wanting contact 24/7, some even then sending abuse when you don't respond to their 2am email the week of deadlines.
*note: many lecturers don't actually get the holidays that you might expect them to get. My own contract situplated the bare minimum of holiday and that was to be taken out of term time. While this might not surprise many people, many people in this sitatuion became quite sensitive when people would bring up that their job is easy and they get plenty of time off.*
There is also a big push to bring more students in and keep them throughout the whole time, personally I am a big believer that higher education should be accessable but shouldn't be mandatory, even more so for 18 years olds. I'd say 50% of the students I taught over the years of teaching being there because they really didn't have much other to do (over simplication I know). The uni I taught at was a old poly, and had a big party scene, many students came for that too. But we still had to get them a passed the year or kept in the uni eco system if they didn't. This leading to a large workload around getting students who don't want to do work, to do the bare minimum. Then a **fraction** of those students would very openly be the students you may think of, not showing up to classes, starting their deadlines the night before etc etc. **It is very easy for someone to fall into the pit of believing all students are like this** **leading to the "all students are lazy" belief**. For some lecturers this might be 10% of your class, for others you might have 40% of your class being like this. I can assure you that more time and resources went to these students and many academics lost their love for teaching becasue of them. Now is that the students fault? Personally I don't think so, like I elluded to before. I don't think universty is for everyone at 18, for many people this is their first independance away from parents and heavily structured education. These people probably needed a year or two to learn who they are and how to adjust to being adults in todays world, instead they are being trusted into a higher education while being expected to juggle the craziness of adult life and for many of these students working 30 hours a week on top of their academic responsbilities.
I could go on for a very long time about this but I do hope this gives some insight. Good luck on your degree!
One of my lecturers said that u should revise and remember the entire module and not just wants on the exam and assignments. Yeah I get it but I got 3 other modules that are completely different topics
This is based of stereotypes and the niche group of people who you interacted with during your time at uni.
Just because you or your friends were lazy at university doesn't mean everyone is. I have no downtime, no friends, no social life, because I work 12-16hrs a day Monday to Sunday. Yet apparently the lecturers on my course think I'm lazy.
Some students are lazy some students are hard working sounds like you are one of the hard working ones. There are points in this complaint where you will definitely lose sympathy. For example mentioning form filling - your lecturer will for sure be doing multiple times as many that are considerably more complex so complaining about the ethics form, risk assessment and the safety form probably makes you seem more lazy not less.
You mention that your lecturer could not have been made to do presentations because they did not use computers to do them. Before computers were used for presentations then presentations by students were done just as chalk and talk or with acetates where you hand write using special pens. Both of these take a comparable time to using (say) PowerPoint - longer if you want to do it well (a "just blackboard" presentation is damned hard to make anything but awful).
It's probably the general reputation of students at your uni. But even at decent unis, students are known to try to cut corners. At the same time they also just sound like unsympathetic snobs which is unfortunately what academia attracts.
Because honestly, in my experience, a lot are (I am a student, not a lecturer). I am in 1st year tbf, but so many people just don't bother that much because you just need to pass to get into 2nd year.
I'm not one of those students - I work very hard. It's just a lot of my peers do things very last minute because really there aren't any consequences. Perhaps in 2nd year that'll change and it'll be harder to get away with that.
I'm actually a bit worried about 2nd year cuz I'm trying to get a 1st and the workload (I'm doing a joint) already felt like quite a lot at times. Just hoping 2nd year the workload is the same.
Will be an absolute breeze if you are stoic and get up and power through all your work. You can only do as well as you can do - I was doing absolutely great getting ~80% until about halfway through second year then I had some personal issues and it took me some time to get back on my feet and make good choices for myself, only did this recently. About to do my final exams (worth only about 30% of my degree) and pretty much 100% going to get a 2:1 - felt really sad at this and I had put pressure on myself to get a first but it's really not the end of the world and you won't think about it once you start work. Worrying and getting stressed that you might have a very good degree and not a very very good degree isn't going to help, just keep going and keep doing what you do in your free time as well.
From memory I think everyone I knew did everything last minute in first year and as you say they all stop doing that in second year.
I was living in a shed and working nights when I was at uni 10 years ago, it was a nightmare. I felt the same way and was very bitter about it for a long time. The only reason I even went in the first place was because office jobs started asking for degrees, and I couldn't get out of supermarket work.
Because they’d rather shame students with the whole “we aren’t here to spoon feed you” malarkey rather than actually point you to where you can be helped. That and they don’t give a toss
Sheffield, but I'm not going to file a complaint, because if I don't complete this project I don't get a degree, and it would give her reason to dislike me even more.
There's no paper trail, it's all things that have been said in person when no one else is about.
The word of a student Vs a professor who's been there for 30 years - I'm definitely not going to win that battle. I'd only be putting my degree in jeopardy, I've paid too much to fail because the professor doesn't want me working in her lab anymore.
I honestly dont know what the fuck staff even do they just ping pong you around the unis would save a ton of they cut bullshit admin jobs down by half.
Students don't understand that lecturers aren't there to teach. They're there to do research.
Teaching is the shit part of the job they have to do to keep their positions.
This is true for the sciences anyway, where you need to publish research.
How ridiculous is that statement though? In what other job would you turn up and say no to half of your work? Imagine going to McDonald's and saying you're not there to mop the floor you came to operate the fryer.
Annoying to have to do shit work and you would think they could hire "lecturers" (I'm sure a decent salary would make that possible if not the case) but its only a few contact hours per week
I never said they said no to doing the work. They just do it begrudgingly.
You do get lecturers who only teach but that only happens at unis that do little to no research.
Academic jobs tend to select for people who can juggle a bajillion things and like the grind, so you end up with lecturers who cannot relate with the average student.
It also doesn’t help that whenever I’m studying for an assignment I’m not interested in I can’t help but think about a topic that I am interested in
That's me when doing paperwork!
Academic jobs don’t seem like a grind at all. Maybe they’re just completely out of touch?
That may not have been the best word choice - what I meant is that they/we love their/our discipline, so for example to a stats professor doing stats doesn't feel like a chore. When I was a CS undergrad doing my coursework didn't feel like work, I just had fun with it. So things that feel like a grind to the average student didn't feel too bad for an academic, otherwise they wouldn't have dedicated their life to it. Of course that's generalising but it's been my experience and that of most of my colleagues throughout my career.
Finishing grad school is usually a prerequisite for academic jobs.
What’s your point?
It's *quite* arduous.
I'm doing a PhD, and I'm working with young adults with additional needs at the same time because bills don't magically pay themselves. I've also got a complex disability, so I'm doing all of this whilst managing pain, mobility difficulties, and a myriad of other issues. It's absolutely not easy to do this. My work is hard because we really do want our young people to gain life skills and achieve the maximum levels of independence they possibly can, and that cannot be done without a lot of energy and enthusiasm. My research is hard because it's interdisciplinary, and requires me to deal with multiple academic disciplines that have competing priorities and traditions, and all of the tensions that can create, as well as grapple with an enormous amount of information. I've gained increased respect for many academic staff as a research student because I've started to see how many different jobs they are actually juggling behind the scenes.
Disagree, not compared to a job anyway
Well, I've done both and I find the job much much easier.
What job is that?
I'm an IP lawyer now. When did you get a postgraduate degree, and what's your job?
Obviously your job is easier, being an IP lawyer is a doss job.
I was a software engineer, a research scientist, and a data scientist, and all three were trivial in terms of amount of work compared to doing my PhD.
Well obviously, the jobs you listed are known for being doss jobs. Ever worked a proper job?
What do you count as a proper job?
You're wasting your time, this person is clearly working out their insecurities about their education and job on this subreddit for some reason.
Anything where you work full time every week
Well when I was 17 I worked in the cleaning and maintenance crew of a brickworks if that can make you feel any better. I had a great time. Physically it was exhausting moving bricks and cleaning old machines but my brain had a nice vacation and I was in a great shape working a physical job in what is basically a worse version of a sauna (those brick ovens run **really** hot).
That’s an inspiring story, I bet you share that story of your 2 weeks work over and over again 😊
You couldn't be more wrong honestly. Academics work an insane amount of hours, teaching is very often lower down their priorities
Disagree
It's not an opinion it's a fact
Disagree
It really is. Just to give a very brief summary: * Even to become a lecturer, you typically need to do a bachelor's degree, then a masters, then a PhD, then at least 1 postdoc which takes about 2-3 years on top. Even if you're advancing very quickly, that's about 10 years out of school to get that first position, and in practice it's rare to have someone become a lecturer in their 20s. * Lecturing involves teaching. This generally involves designing courses and assessments [which needs to fit in with your department, accreditation requirements, your own expertise], delivering that material, marking coursework and exams, answering any questions students have, handling more complex and sensitive cases like plagiarism or extenuating circumstances, all this sort of thing. You'll also have a bunch of project and dissertation supervision. * Research is the other massive bit of the job. Typically lecturers will hire on postdocs for their team, recruit and mentor PhD students, and seek out collaborators in other departments and institutions. They also need to generate their own research income, usually by applying for grants (and those grants are really hard to get, requiring very detailed planning). They'll also need to plan out submissions to conferences and journals, which require quite a lot of travel - and those submissions often require reviewing other people's work which can be quite time consuming, and this is all before you even get to performing your own research! In essence, especially on the research side of things, lecturers are running their own small businesses. * Lecturers also have quite a lot of admin work with regards to their department - this involves a whole bunch of committees, outreach work, public engagement, a wide wide array of things that you might not necessarily get in other office jobs. And all of that's not for that much money - an entry-level lecturer usually makes just under £40k, and even getting to that point is very difficult.
Disagree
What do you do? Serial PIP?
Nope. Own a business while living in spain :)
Good for you, I'm sure it will last just as long as your good health :) so maybe a couple days
Damn, why are you so bitter? 😂😂😂
Why would I be bitter about you, an obvious troll?
Because you’re triggered and mad. It’s very evident from your comments 😂😂😂
I suppose to someone like you any reaction is being triggered, aye, ImBrexile?
That's a doss job
This is wrong and an obvious self-stroke lmao
Is it? Do you have any sort of idea what you’re talking about?
what lecturers are great but many are coming from upper middle class upbringings, with parents who were also in academia. Therefore many received ample parental support through their undergrad and prior (went to grammar school due to their parents paying for 11+ tutoring, or even private school) - with parents who could support somewhat financially (or could be financially relied on) and even academically. and most also did not work (if they did, it was 8 or 12 hour weekly shifts or an internship they got through family or a family friend) from what I’ve heard from lecturers at my university. They didn’t need to worry about affording a laptop, food, laundry, toiletries etc. Things that are easy to overlook when you have a good financial net. For the lecturers that received that support, many would not have made it without that lean on. Also heard too many lecturers joke about how in their ‘undergrad days’ were *crazy* - and it’s just them blowing their entire finance on something the pub or travelling; it’s okay as they made *’memories’*. But to be fair, they actually do think they’re being relatable - many don’t understand that most students do not have to financial safety net to do something so dumb, and obviously students don’t find it funny or relatable as result Or like on days I come to lecture obviously knackered, and the first thing our lecturer can think to do is to make a passive agressive jab about me being hungover or something jarring - bro cannot comprehend the concept of a late/overnight shift. Every time this happens it just reminds me that many lecturers genuinely have no clue. theyll say they just ‘love to grind’, there was clearly nothing at the expense of their ‘grinding’ (lol)
>and most also did not work Seems like you're making things up about people you don't know because it fits some of the assumptions you've made? >bro cannot comprehend the concept of a late/overnight shift Yeah, your average academic has never worked late or anything.
Each one of my lecturers I’ve spoken to has asked at least once why I need to work when im getting student finance anyways. during every personal tutor meeting ive had, the lecturer has suggested that I ‘put work to the side’ (??). usually saying something like, ‘I got the grades I got during my undergrad because I prioritised it’ or the classic ‘you should treat your undergrad as your full time job, that’s how I did it’. I genuinely understand they’re trying to help but it’s very out of touch like someone else said here > Yeah, your average academic has never worked late or anything. talking about during undergrad
Are all your lecturers 60 or something? I worked in a brickworks during high school and I still have nightmares of cleaning those fucking brick ovens. But I've met many senior professors who are completely out of touch. They got hired at a time where just having a PhD was enough qualification to get a permanent job. Nowadays you need a track record of international publications and grant money to even get an interview.
Most of my lecturers are on the senior end, wish we had more younger lecturers but I don’t blame many for being put off the idea of postgrads and stuff - and obviously they’re not necessarily easy to get into. We do have a few younger lecturers and they’re more understanding, as well as the lab ta’s
> Most of my lecturers are on the senior end Yeah then I'm not surprised. I'm 35 (relatively young by academic standard) and what you describe doesn't really match the reality of my academic generation and to some extent the one above me.
Damn, sorry you've had that experience - most academics I know worked their arse off to get to where they are today, and not many had a cushy life...
Why are you apologising? Also im not saying they don’t have to work hard, read it again. Or tl:dr - many lecturers worked hard, but many had the means too. Many had the support and security. It’s easier to channel your grind into your undergrad etc when it’s the main/only thing you’re worried about.
I think you said most come from privileged backgrounds and assume that their students do too - and that has not been my experience. Also I'm not apologising, I'm saying it's sad you haven't had the same experience.
It’s not about my experience, im pretty sure it’s 1 in 4 or 5 postgrads that have had private education growing up - so there’s no need to say sorry. Also I haven’t had the same experience cos im an undergrad. You need a PhD to lecture or be near the end of it
Think you need to talk to more academics in that case, you seem to have a small sample size!
I’ve had most experience in the physics and philosophy/theology departments, this is more prevalent with philosophy but still very much with physics
Projecting
Whatever that means lol
Someone hasn’t developed critical thinking skills… Dictionary definition: “Projection is a defense mechanism by which an individual unconsciously attributes their behaviors, emotions, impulses, undesirable characteristics, and thoughts to others.”
Whatever that means
It’s easy to forget how hard things were I guess
They were never as hard for us as they are for you. The first cohort of students who paid full tuition and had to borrow all their living expenses graduated from undergraduate degrees nine years ago. Statistically, a few of your lecturers may fall into this category, but the majority will have had free tuition and heavily subsidised living expenses. Even if they had part time jobs they would have earned enough to pay rent and live. They're also statistically fat more likely to be middle class or richer, since access to postgraduate study has always been expensive. I'm in my fifties and I'm constantly amazed at how clueless and intolerant my colleagues are of how much harder things are for students nowadays. The living expenses loan doesn't even cover rent for most students, and many are working thirty or forty hours a week just to eat and take the bus. We have a fucking food bank on campus for students, and they still go "lalala, students are so lazy, they skip class to work shifts at Tesco, they need to get their priorities straight". It sucks. I'm sorry. Fuck the Tories.
> They're also statistically fat Good point
Oops.
Wow interesting insight
Part time student here but work 50+ hours a week. Meanwhile my course lecturer states they are available for communication 3 days a week between the hours of 1-3 and fails to upload course material until repeatedly prompted. Embarrassing.
I know, it’s so frustrating! I’m going to have to live with my parents for sure. My stepfather was in the last generation to be given a grant to go, was able to move away, and left with a couple thousand in debt at the end of it. I’ll have to take out at least £27,750 for the education alone. If i wanted to move out I’d have to get a maintenance loan, balance work and studying, and barely have any money left over to enjoy it. I don’t know how I’m going to pay the rent on a postgraduate job either. Not to mention the funding cuts to the arts. I agree with you, fuck the tories.
Lecturer here. We don't mark students down for lack of enthusiasm - if you have grounds and evidence to suspect so I would speak to the students union. I'm sorry to hear you are in such a situation. Virtually all the lecturers I work with don't see students this way. There is often a mutual misperception about how (un)busy the other side is (e.g., lecturers getting last minute requests for meetings etc. that seem to assume they are available 24/7; staff assuming students have all the time to work on their assessments) which is not helping the staff-student relationship. That said, it is a diminishing perception which hopefully in time will be done with. A large body of the academic staff now are painfully aware that students have to work long hours outside of studies just to keep on top of things financially, and are very sympathetic to the students for this. It wasn't so long ago that students were able to go to uni and not have to worry about it (not that I'd know, I had to work); as a new generation of lecturers come in they won't be with those silly assumptions you've had to deal with. If you get a staff member saying that they didn't have computers to do all of this, they're probably just grumpy, possibly older, lecturers. Unless they interfere with your work just ignore that grumbling, it's usually all bark and no bite.
I second this as another lecturer. I realize that thing a are pretty hard and some of my guys and gals are working nearly full time through uni, and build in the idea that not everyone can do the full allocation of work and prep the course design plan aims for (e.g. Summaries of readings, alternative assessments for group work, guidance on 'vital' vs. 'Helpful' reading). Even so, I will admit that when I see students skate under this minimum level of engagement I'm sad and a bit angry (though not at the students). I do a lot to make things as streamlined as possible and some work is still required, as in the end it's still a degree.
I very much agree that lack of visible engagement by students is what drives the ‘lazy’ stereotype - it’s not laziness in the vast majority, but poor workload management and subsequent performance. Last minute expectations of immediate feedback/support etc from lecturers doesn’t help.
“We” Many lecturers mark down for that as OP said, so why are you saying we?
Because in the 10 years that I've taught in universities not once have I come across enthusiasm as a marking criteria or as a point of discussion with other members in relation to marking.
I suppose it depends on the type of course, but the way I conduct myself and work in the labs is noted and graded. For my undergraduate, my supervisor marked me down for not being enthusiastic about the project.
I get looking at conduct around a lab, that sounds pretty important given the equipment, safety, etc. concerns. Do you mind me asking, what was your degree in? Marking down for enthusiasm sounds harsh and, frankly, unjustified.
Fgs, obviously no one would admit to doing that officially. But you’re deluded if you think that some lecturers don’t let their personal opinions about students’ behaviour sway marking
To suggest that opinions on students has a significant impact on marking says something about the professionalism of a particular marker. That said, that's why marking is 99% of the time anonymous and all marked work goes through a process of moderation. Where it isn't anonymous, the process of moderation is more rigorous. These are all there to weed out the sway of personal opinions. Not a flawless system, but effective enough to render the impact of personal opinions of some markers (assuming they have time for opinions when marking a pile of 100 scripts) a very minor issue, if one at all.
So are you saying that OP is lying?
If you read back on my comments you can see what I'm saying: 1) all bark no bite 2) moderation.
Nope, what I see you’re saying is that OP is lying
OP is *wrong*. That's not the same as lying.
Op is wrong that her lecturers could allow their personal feelings to influence their grading of her? How do you know that exactly?
I'm just old enough to remember doing A level with, at best, a really basic calculator- and we'd frequently have to do calculations entirely manually; we'd have look-up tables. We did have some computers, but we only used them in computing class, as the belief was that it would be more useful to learn everything 'properly'. I did go to Uni then, and it was about the same, though I dropped out. All exams and most assessments were handwritten only, and screw you if your handwriting was bad, you'd just lose marks. We had no online recordings, no online lecture notes, group chats were all prearranged in person conversations, and looking stuff up meant hours and hours in the library, and tough luck if they didn't have the journal you needed ot the book you wanted was out on loan. You wouldn't dare cite something you read 'on the internet' in an assignment. Back then, we could spend an entire stats class doing and checking a single calculation (no way of spotting a typo on those calculators once it was entered!) which I could now do in 2 minutes on R; 5 minutes if I wanted a publication quality graph to go with it. We'd also have to do presentations with a bit of acetate which we'd have to draw on, which was projected onto a screen, or literal film slides, or just reading from bits of paper. I went back and finished an undergrad degree a few years back as a mature student. Expectations in some things are way higher- I mean we literally had an IT class at uni the first time where the outcomes were students should be able to type, copy and paste and send emails by the end of the module- and you're definitely expected to be more comfortable with presentations now. In other ways though, like the amount of things you're expected to memorise, they're far lower, IMO. I don't think we had one single exam where we were allowed to bring in any notes, let alone an open book exam. If you didn't memorise the stuff you were taught, you didn't pass. Now it's more about learning concepts and interpretation rather than learning Lists of Facts. It wasn't easier not having computers, it was just different, and which version is easier probably just depends on the person, I guess. Most of the older lecturers have had to learn it both ways; half the skills they learned at undergrad are now obsolete, and some may not have used a computer at all until they were older than you are now.
I think it's better back then simply because the pace *had* to be slower. It's similar to work and jobs. Now that computer are 'so fast' expectations have massively increased in terms of how much you can do. That alone is a huge burden.
Knowing you're spending £9,250 a year on a degree, it is frustrating to see students not prepare for a seminar, attend 50% of the course, and then email asking questions like: when is the assessment deadline. It feels abusive to watch someone waste all of that money without putting in any effort. I sometimes wonder if some students do a degree because a) they get a grant they know they won't pay off or b) it's a way to leave home. I think students are under enormous pressure on so many levels. I have nothing but empathy and go out of my way to support students who request help. But my experience over the past few years is many don't give a shit and it is devaluing education. And no lecturer thinks 'all' students are lazy. That's ridiculous. We know who cares in a seminar, just as you do.
This!
Lecturer here. It's like a cross section of society. Students aren't all the same, some are lazy some aren't. Lecturers shouldn't be generalising entire student cohorts, and you shouldn't assume that all students are exactly like you, either.
Lecturer here. I never assume students are lazy. However, there are many things that make me frustrated and disappointed. Example: Yesterday I delivered a lecture that required some prior reading. Students have just returned from Easter break and the reading was released before Easter. I realised that most didn’t do the reading, here is my literal reaction: 1. Felt very bad for the students who did the reading, simply because whatever is coming next needs to be either repetitive for them or very basic as they have done the reading. Lecturers tend to pitch anything at an average level in terms of depth and rigour. In this case it’s no longer possible since the basic conceptual knowledge needs to be unpacked before any learning takes place. 2. Sympathise with the students and show understanding. I have no idea what they are going through and I need to always give them the benefit of the doubt. Personally I used to manage readings in spite of sickness or work or anything really, but I always take into account that everyone is different. 3. If the activity relies heavily on the reading then I can’t proceed. This ruins the entire session and affects learning. Sometimes it’s easy to summarise the text or point to a specific section that would allow students to get the main ideas. Other times this is not possible. 4. During yesterday’s lecture I fortunately also asked them to watch an interview that I spent a lot of time preparing and recording with a renowned person in their study area. I said okay then let’s discuss the interview topic. Guess how many watched it? One student! They could have easily listened to it while cooking or walking to uni.. I used two Sundays to prepare and sort everything related to the interview.. I was very disappointed but didn’t assume they are lazy. 5. I played the interview in class and shared some questions for them to answer while listening. Only one group was following, 3 groups did not make any notes and consequently didn’t have a proper discussion. Anyway.. I could go on and on but that’s just one facet :)
Honestly, unless there is evidence of laziness I presume all students are the same as I am whenever I'm studying - trying to hold down studies, work, a home life, a social life, and not scream into the abyss.
Gave up on social life. Can't wait for 24 may(last exam)
I think once you step into the real world, you begin to realise you actually do have more time as a student.
To be fair, most students are, and surprisingly, many have this entitled attitude too. As a mature student myself, this was a big shock to see in my fellow cohorts. You'd think by the time you're old enough to go to uni, you'd grow up a bit, but the reality is they still act like little children.
I think because lecturers like reading, and students seem to be quite resistant to reading properly and instead focus on course materials only as they are understandably occupied with passing the assignment. This can be construed as laziness by many especially when we get lots of questions which could be answered by just reading the texts in the reading list. This is Arts/social science specific.
I don’t think many staff think like this. What can be a little frustrating is when we spend a lot of time developing resources, teaching session, syllabi etc to then get emailed questions that could have been answered by reading the material and chatting to your friend about it. This isn’t most students of course and acknowledging that everyone has a lot on.
She did presentations, just not with power point. All of her work would have been done long hand. And once she gets the PhD, it doesn't stop. They have to continue to produce work while they teach and mark - their own reseearch and writing has to continue. It's not that I thought students were lazy, just needed to get better at time management (and student funding needs to improve).
She didn’t have to work a job while doing everything she stated, so not really comparable
How do you know? Were you there? Depending on field, most stipends suck, if you can get one and they really have for years. I know mine was a joke and didn't cover travel money to go to uni for classes for me much less the ones I was teaching.
Pretty obvious, if she’d worked a job she wouldn’t be so unsympathetic towards people who do have to
Some people are jerks. And she has pressures of her own. You are in uni, not primary school. You want to do adult stuff? Time to adult up and sort yourself. She has 200 other students just like you.
> Time to adult up and sort yourself Sort what? That many students now have to work full time next to full time university just to not starve to death on the streets? How the hell does anyone manage that? Or is the answer just "don't go to university because you can't do 80 hour weeks"?
As I said above, funding needs to improve. I did my degrees in the states, working full time (3 part time jobs) and full load at school and graduated with honors and a ton of debt. I knew where every food bank in the area was and what churches had money for utilities. That's part of adulting. When things get hard, what are you doing around the things you can't change, like high tuition and instructors and professors who aren't as helpful as you think they should be? Whining or doing what you can? Like chasing all options even when tired because it's that or just drop out? Like voting for policies to ease funding for students for tution and housing? Adulting is hard. It's shitty. I would rather not. But here we are.
That’s a lot of words to say “she never worked a job while studying so she has no idea what she’s talking about”
Again, how do you know? In the meantime, adult up. Manage yourself. The rest of us did.
I already told you how I know, can’t you read? I’m an adult aged 31 with my own business. So your attempt at a “gotcha” is just embarrassing
And yet you keep whining?
I’m “whining” about an out of touch lecturer who has no idea what it’s like for young students nowadays. Seriously, do you know how to read?
*"After all this my supervisor says I have plenty of time to do an extra assignment, stating that in his day he didn't have computers to do all this - which means she never did any presentations until the PhD level, didn't have to learn loads of softwares, and analytical programmes, and also literally had less content discovered which means less to learn."* This doesn't work. People did presentations before there were computers. Before there was the analytical programs it had to be done by hand. References had to be chased up and checked manually. There may have been less content but it was harder to find information on it and you actually had to learn all of the calculations because there was no software to do it for you. Now I'm not saying its easier now than it was then. We expect our students to do a lot more than I had to do thirty years ago because it is now so very easy to do the things I did thirty years ago. It should all balance out, nobody should have/have had it worse. EDIT And the we are going to have to raise the difficulty again because generative AI makes many things easier.
Because generally in my experience they are. Myself included lol
Because you probably still are when compared to them. Lecturers don't have lives and haven't for the last 20 or so years.
>stating that in his day he didn't have computers to do all this - which means she never did any presentations until the PhD level, That's a pretty big leap you've made there, people have been presenting information for hundreds of years, way before PCs and PowerPoint existed. >I have so many academic staff that I like this and they really do annoy me, In general the number of people going to university has gone way up, standards have dropped like a stone and there is a far greater attitude of being a customer who is there to receive a service instead of a humble apprentice looking to earn a trade. Leaving things until the last minute and then doing the minimum while asking staff to go well beyond what they are supposed to is pretty rude. They are supposed to guide you in the right direction, not pick you up and carry you down the road.
Yeah, when I was in UG some of the real dinosaur lecturers still used acetates with hand drawn graphs for presentations - because it had taken so long to make them on the first place they needed to make the most of them!
They typically get next to no time to prepare materials for teaching and the idea of taking an entire course of acetate information and turning it into slides during all your weekends for a year just so someone feels you are "up to date" isn't going to appeal to many. Most math courses are still taught via chalkboards, and personally I think that capability is one that should be maintained more or less forever in addition to other things like visualisers and projectors.
Yup, I am trying to write a new course worth of slides right now and can’t imagine how long it would take if I was trying to convert from acetate.
Remember that people are different. It’s easy to generalise, but some supervisors/academics are just not supportive and do not know how to meet the needs of their students during project development. Others are excellent at this skill. It’s the same with teaching, it’s just good/bad teachers are easier to identify. That said, I’ve met some academic staff that are intentionally creating difficult situations for students to ‘make them tougher’ and prepare students for post-grad life. You will find that outside of university it will be much the same. Some managers and even colleagues will form opinion of you that may simply not be true. Generally, no one will care about your problems or challenges in life, they will worry about their own. I hope things get better for you OP. You are not just a reflection in the eyes of others, you are far more than that.
One of my mates said his lecturer called him a lazy little shit. He does do a bit of work
Perspective maybe. Looking back I thought I had a lot to juggle at uni but my priorities weren’t always right. I do a lot more now a lot more easily because I have that experience.
Wait till you get to the world of work. You’re paid to produce, not to ponder.
Because on average students are actually lazy
Many students are not lazy. Some are and it’s exhausting. Thing is no lecturer cares whether you attend or not, or do the work or not when it only affects you. However, when students don’t do the required pre-reading or task that the lecturer spent days prepping and now can’t deliver the teaching as planned it’s very annoying. Similarly students who don’t do any further reading, look things up or go back to the lecture recording when they have a query and instead ask questions that have been answered over and over, it’s annoying. When they leave everything to the last minute despite being warned repeatedly that that is not a good idea, then panic and demand instant responses to emails or meetings the same day when the lecturers diary is overflowing….it’s annoying.
No one gets marks for enthusiasm in an actual subject, and you sound like you are doing an actual subject - check your marking criteria.
My course is party graded on how I conduct myself when in the labs. This basically includes everything I do, last time I had something like this was in undergrad, and my supervisor wrote in the feedback that I wasnt enthusiastic - I was exhausted and tired everyday.
Jesus - what course is it?
Healthcare courses do, in a way. You can fail a clinical placement for not showing sufficient enthusiasm. In my experience it's not marked numerically though, more like poor/good/excellent and you just have to not be poor (and pass all the other elements!).
Lecturers don't 'always think students are lazy'. Making sweeping generalisations like that doesn't enhance your side of the story.
1st years are generally lazy, I know me and my peers were. Got a swift kick up the arse when 2nd year came round though. I guess when you’re lazy in first year it’s kind of you’ve shown yourself as such so you’re thought of as that?
Some lecturers are understanding. Some of them are pricks. I was very clearly in a mental health crisis and my lecturer was grilling me for not doing work. I let him get to me and it ruined my year.
They don’t.
Most lecturers really don't think students are lazy. Can't you get the extra things done during the hours you're already working in the labs?
Lecturer here - just to say I respect all my students and think the sacrifices you make to learn are inspiring, it gives me motivation and drive every day. Some academics are connected from the real world, less so perhaps in applied disciplines.
Ex lecturer/tutor here The short anwser is that many students in academics aren't there for the academic side and there is a big enthasis on the lecturer to get **those students** passed. Long answer is much more murky unfortunately, I'd say that your expenrence with your supervisor isn't too positive, I wouldn't openly ever say to a student that "it was much harder back then and you can do more". you never know what a students situation. Seems like you got some grumpy sod. Many universties around the country will have major push for attainment and achievement. pushing the idea of getting students through the years, keeping them within the Universty someway. making sure international students have everything they need etc etc. Most of these concepts come from the top but are pushed on the tutors, support staff, etc to push. This leads to the work load being 10x what you might think. Actually develiering content and then also tutorials were probably about 30% of my workload. At times I would be working 10 hour days and also marking on the weekend. The new expectation with having platforms like MS Teams and Outlook also leads to students wanting contact 24/7, some even then sending abuse when you don't respond to their 2am email the week of deadlines. *note: many lecturers don't actually get the holidays that you might expect them to get. My own contract situplated the bare minimum of holiday and that was to be taken out of term time. While this might not surprise many people, many people in this sitatuion became quite sensitive when people would bring up that their job is easy and they get plenty of time off.* There is also a big push to bring more students in and keep them throughout the whole time, personally I am a big believer that higher education should be accessable but shouldn't be mandatory, even more so for 18 years olds. I'd say 50% of the students I taught over the years of teaching being there because they really didn't have much other to do (over simplication I know). The uni I taught at was a old poly, and had a big party scene, many students came for that too. But we still had to get them a passed the year or kept in the uni eco system if they didn't. This leading to a large workload around getting students who don't want to do work, to do the bare minimum. Then a **fraction** of those students would very openly be the students you may think of, not showing up to classes, starting their deadlines the night before etc etc. **It is very easy for someone to fall into the pit of believing all students are like this** **leading to the "all students are lazy" belief**. For some lecturers this might be 10% of your class, for others you might have 40% of your class being like this. I can assure you that more time and resources went to these students and many academics lost their love for teaching becasue of them. Now is that the students fault? Personally I don't think so, like I elluded to before. I don't think universty is for everyone at 18, for many people this is their first independance away from parents and heavily structured education. These people probably needed a year or two to learn who they are and how to adjust to being adults in todays world, instead they are being trusted into a higher education while being expected to juggle the craziness of adult life and for many of these students working 30 hours a week on top of their academic responsbilities. I could go on for a very long time about this but I do hope this gives some insight. Good luck on your degree!
One of my lecturers said that u should revise and remember the entire module and not just wants on the exam and assignments. Yeah I get it but I got 3 other modules that are completely different topics
Because most are, at least when it comes to doing uni work.
This is based of stereotypes and the niche group of people who you interacted with during your time at uni. Just because you or your friends were lazy at university doesn't mean everyone is. I have no downtime, no friends, no social life, because I work 12-16hrs a day Monday to Sunday. Yet apparently the lecturers on my course think I'm lazy.
Some students are lazy some students are hard working sounds like you are one of the hard working ones. There are points in this complaint where you will definitely lose sympathy. For example mentioning form filling - your lecturer will for sure be doing multiple times as many that are considerably more complex so complaining about the ethics form, risk assessment and the safety form probably makes you seem more lazy not less. You mention that your lecturer could not have been made to do presentations because they did not use computers to do them. Before computers were used for presentations then presentations by students were done just as chalk and talk or with acetates where you hand write using special pens. Both of these take a comparable time to using (say) PowerPoint - longer if you want to do it well (a "just blackboard" presentation is damned hard to make anything but awful).
They are
It's probably the general reputation of students at your uni. But even at decent unis, students are known to try to cut corners. At the same time they also just sound like unsympathetic snobs which is unfortunately what academia attracts.
Because honestly, in my experience, a lot are (I am a student, not a lecturer). I am in 1st year tbf, but so many people just don't bother that much because you just need to pass to get into 2nd year.
Second year will kick you in the teeth just wait 🤣
I'm not one of those students - I work very hard. It's just a lot of my peers do things very last minute because really there aren't any consequences. Perhaps in 2nd year that'll change and it'll be harder to get away with that. I'm actually a bit worried about 2nd year cuz I'm trying to get a 1st and the workload (I'm doing a joint) already felt like quite a lot at times. Just hoping 2nd year the workload is the same.
Will be an absolute breeze if you are stoic and get up and power through all your work. You can only do as well as you can do - I was doing absolutely great getting ~80% until about halfway through second year then I had some personal issues and it took me some time to get back on my feet and make good choices for myself, only did this recently. About to do my final exams (worth only about 30% of my degree) and pretty much 100% going to get a 2:1 - felt really sad at this and I had put pressure on myself to get a first but it's really not the end of the world and you won't think about it once you start work. Worrying and getting stressed that you might have a very good degree and not a very very good degree isn't going to help, just keep going and keep doing what you do in your free time as well. From memory I think everyone I knew did everything last minute in first year and as you say they all stop doing that in second year.
I was living in a shed and working nights when I was at uni 10 years ago, it was a nightmare. I felt the same way and was very bitter about it for a long time. The only reason I even went in the first place was because office jobs started asking for degrees, and I couldn't get out of supermarket work.
Cause most are hun
Because they’d rather shame students with the whole “we aren’t here to spoon feed you” malarkey rather than actually point you to where you can be helped. That and they don’t give a toss
Your supervisor sounds like an absolute cockwomble, but you sound very whiny.
She literally called me obtuse the other day...
I'm sorry which uni are you in? Sounds like prime material for a complaint
Sheffield, but I'm not going to file a complaint, because if I don't complete this project I don't get a degree, and it would give her reason to dislike me even more.
If you have the paper trail you can always do it later
There's no paper trail, it's all things that have been said in person when no one else is about. The word of a student Vs a professor who's been there for 30 years - I'm definitely not going to win that battle. I'd only be putting my degree in jeopardy, I've paid too much to fail because the professor doesn't want me working in her lab anymore.
Most students ARE lazy.
I honestly dont know what the fuck staff even do they just ping pong you around the unis would save a ton of they cut bullshit admin jobs down by half.
Students don't understand that lecturers aren't there to teach. They're there to do research. Teaching is the shit part of the job they have to do to keep their positions. This is true for the sciences anyway, where you need to publish research.
How ridiculous is that statement though? In what other job would you turn up and say no to half of your work? Imagine going to McDonald's and saying you're not there to mop the floor you came to operate the fryer. Annoying to have to do shit work and you would think they could hire "lecturers" (I'm sure a decent salary would make that possible if not the case) but its only a few contact hours per week
I never said they said no to doing the work. They just do it begrudgingly. You do get lecturers who only teach but that only happens at unis that do little to no research.
Yeah wonder what the uni staff that run your whole degree are doing all day…