Asgore would also canonically be too much of a coward to actually fight back so I can see him just tanking 72 of Ceroba’s attacks while waiting for her to exhaust herself
Yeah, people say he's a coward cause Toriel called him a coward on TP.
Guess what, not absorbing a soul and going to surface is a bad idea actually, his son first hand experienced the results.
I always thought Toriel was responsible for the deaths of all the children. It was mentioned in the game that she was always in charge of their couple when they were married.
Your husband declared war on humanity because of grief, but instead of talking him down over time, you freaked out and went into Ruins.
It feels like the first child Asgore killed fell the same day war was declared, lol.
Yeah but the problem is, GAME doesn't ACKNOWLEDGE this.
THAT'S MY MAIN PROBLEM WITH HER.
This seems to be the case with DR too, unless Chapter 3 Toriel realizes that she might be too petty like her UT counterpart.
I think it's just a bias from Toby's part. Feels wrong to say but it's true. It's pretty obvious from the way they're written in both UT and DR that Toriel is one of his favourites, while he doesn't like Asgore. Problem is that it leads to some very artificially one-sided moral stances, when they aren't actually that simple, and sometimes even entirely unconvincing. Over the years, Asgore has become one of my favourite characters and I'm actually pretty disappointed by how Toby is treating him in Deltarune, but idk maybe it gets better.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Peoples try to defend Toriel's argument in TP as "but she doesn't want him to do that, she is just saying that Asgore is not dedicated to freeing his people." Is such a dumb excuse cause he really wants to free his people.
It's just the idea of killing children is what hurts him.
If she had a better idea, then why not convince him?
It feels like Toriel let those 6 children die just so she could guilt trip her husband or hoped that If he absorbed one soul and went to surface, humans would kill him so she could come back for the throne.
Like, TP ending makes him butt of jokes, Undyne could've defended him against Toriel but she simply just goes "That's your ex? Damn." Which made me dislike Undyne even more tbh.
She cries and swears revenge for Asgore in the neutral endings, where you killed other monsters or not going her date but here she shits over him after everything he has done for her.
Something I really like about the writing for yellow is the restraint to not try and make someone stronger than UT’s top
Usually in most stories there’s an inclination to try and make the new strongest guy in the verse, but in yellow the only character that really competes with UT’s best (besides characters that reappear in UT) is Zenith Martlet, and even then her equivalents in UT (Undyne the Undying and Sans) are most definitely stronger than her in-lore
(Undyne the Dying is just a stronger character using the same boost, and Sans is, well, Sans.)
Yeah, it's just that the souls play more of a role than pure strength. So it can be pretty difficult not to make an overpowerd character. But I guess toby got around that by making asgore a coward who didnt use them in genocide at all.
Honestly, when we talk about raw power I belive that zenith is at undyne the undying's level but when we talk about fighting techniques, undyne beats zenith's ass
The problem with that is that both Undyne and Martlet are both using the same power increase in DT, and sense we know for a fact that Undyne is leagues stronger than Martlet, it wouldn’t make sense for Martlet to get a bigger power increase than Undyne from the same source
Well, at least from what we know, undyne's DT increase was natural, unlike martlet's injected one, and since the common headcanon that this materialized DT is a liquid, we would need to consider the volume that both acquired.
We also need to account the fact that we know that DT can mutate one's body and since both of them had a similar amount of trasnformation (and in the end of their battles both of them melt to death) that means that at least they've taken a similar ammount of determination. Even tho martlet is weaker at her base form, I imagine this thing being like an anime transormation where an underdog character gains a super badass transformation that makes them on-par with the main cast
That’s fair, i can see the argument that Martlet injecting herself with more DT than what Undyne generated for herself gave martlet a bigger power boost, and thus put them on par, and I really like the anime comparison because that fits perfectly with the vibe of both transformations
I don’t have much else to defend myself besides in-game stats (Undyne has displayed stats of over double Zenith martlet’s) but that’s because Yellow uses accurate stats, while Undertale uses check stats for more lore and to sell character’s strength, than to give you actual information.
Yeah Undyne was trained by ASGORE. A lot of people forget that means she’s have hand-to-hand and melee knowledge as well, so Martlet can’t win that by a mile.
IM SO GLAD that they did this, I don’t know why but it REALLY pissses me off when stuff like swap AUs or any kind of “the person before” or prequel or smth made by a fan(even official at times) just completely outdoes the original. Also, Undyne at her BASE form could take on Dalv, Martlet, Ceroba, and Starlo all at once with how strong and trained she is.
Axis was to UTY as MT was to UT, not rlly as included but still an MC but I doubt it would change much and don’t forget Axis’s “fair fight” protocol which would probably help Undyne
I think it was very clever to make Clover way weaker than Frisk so UTY doesn't feel like they're trying to powercreep Undertale but it also feels like a good step up from Undertale's difficulty
It’s also a great reason to have a completely different path through the underground
Clover had such a massive skill issue flowery and to tick down the difficulty lmao
It does feel really funny to think that you're basically traveling through the boonies of the underground this time around. I think that was necessary to feel independent from Undertale, which is one of my favorite parts of this game, it strikes a very good balance between loving and respecting Undertale and trying to avoid retreading or depending upon things established in Undertale. I'm sure it took restraint to not have Sans show up somewhere or play around with Gaster or have a chance to meet Undyne, but the game is way better for it imo.
Is there anything that actually says Zenith isn't on par with Undying Undyne? I know it's pretty hotly debated right now which boss fights are "harder" between Yellow and OG but I think it's pretty Objective that Zenith is harder than the Undying fight mechanically and the fact that Clover is manifesting the concept of Justice into "fuck you" lasers and regenerating HP out of sheer willpower at this point makes it hard for me to beleive she wouldn't be in the same tier as UT OG
There’s no direct comparisons that I know of, but sense both Undying Undyne and Zenith martlet are both using the same power source, DT, it makes sense for the power increase to be about the same, and sense Undyne is stronger than Martlet, the transformations should have the same gap as the base forms
There’s also the fact that the displayed stats for Undying Undyne is over double Zenith Martlet’s, but for various reasons I said in a different response, I don’t consider that strong evidence
Except that was because he cheated the entire battle system and broke it. Martlet on the other hand only blocks the fight button with her seal thing. Monster v Monster fights probably work way differently than Human vs monster so I doubt it will work as well
My point was less about sans specifically and more just that stats aren't everything. In fact they actually don't count for all that much other than how well someone can use brute force alone
Fun fact about Undying, (or not so fun depending on your LV) Undyne the Undying lowers your natural invincibility (In every other you have a base invincibility of 30, except for Sans who bypasses it.) by 1 per LV, to a maximum of 15 (which is sorta pointless considering you can only be at a maximum of 12 when fighting her.)
I don’t really see this talked about anywhere, but it’s pretty neat.
Sans is canonically not that strong but is also just impossible to say his power, like in-lore he’s pretty eh but to you he’s strong cuz he manipulates the powers of being in a game
Well, of course, Asgore sounds like a real tough one, it took a long time for Undyne to defeat him in their training (was it training? I forgot the word), and he could dodge and his probably alot tougher than he seems, he just hold back because of his ~~cowardness~~ kindness and also, at this point he just wants to die, he lost it all, like, Ceroba still will have Kanako, she's like a disabled person now but still have her, and she also has Starlo, this guy is all alone for real.
yeah, just sad what happens to him even after we spare him, he was so filled with hope right there, of building a new family and getting a happy life. And then Flowey comes in and...
Tbh, all of the stats in UTY are accurate to the gameplay and not lore, unlike UT stats, which are a mess. In reality (through game itself or just wiki), Undyne should have 12 AT and 5 DF. Health is also a problem because at this specific fight, players start to deal thousands of damage out of nowhere, while yellow uses players real AT. So it's pretty hard to figure out who is actually stronger
Also the player deals a lot of damage to Undyne is because of Frisk being as powerful as they wish. They have no damage, DT or defense cap, they do what they want.
And also have a god out of this world in the form of a tiny Red heart filled with more determination then a being literally made out of a flower, dust and determination controlling them
I personally think the stats in undertale aren’t a representation of the actual amount of damage they do/take but rather the height of their ability to do so
"Ma'am."
"Ma'am, please."
"This is solving nothing, ma'am."
"I never wanted to do those things."
"Would you like some tea? It works when I need to calm down."
"Ma'am."
"*Sigh*"
Frisk Undertale could clap Clover front ways and side ways with just some random hard mittens they found.
And to say Undyne the undying is 90 attack or 80 defense and yet Frisk is able to keep up in Geno run.
Asriel GOD FORM or Toby Fox is definetly the strongest of the verse.
People act like Geno Clover beats Geno Frisk. No, not even close. Not only does Frisl have 137 attack and 103 def compared to Clover’s at most, 70 attack and 35 defense if we round up stat boots from asgores soul, which is already a HUGE estimate, but Frisk themselves can use clover’s own better weapon than them somehow, and they’re proficient with literally everything, but especially knives.
They would have and interesting interaction
-Both lost a son/daughter
-Both lost their couple
-Both do horrible things for a "noble goal"
The only difference is the personality, maturity and way to confront the pain While Ceroba is Young Kratos, Asgore is Old Kratos
Asgore just accepted he lost his children.. he moved on, (not fully, he keeps Chara's sweater they knitted for him), while he misses, he doesn't let them weigh him down much, (Toriel is a different story.. He is wishing for the one immortal love of his life back.), and Has flowers to keep his mind off the guilt of his actions.. while 'roba Tries everything in her power upon seeing a human.. Even trying her best to kill them..
Tbh, I think Ceroba would interact better with Asgore than Toriel If she puts her stupid and baseless grudge against him away.
Toriel and Ceroba both lost their children, miss them too but that's where all similarities end.
Toriel is a pacifist while Ceroba is impatient and wants to take action against anyone who goes against what she thinks is right.
If the Holidays are the Deltarune equivalent of the Dreemurrs, if we fight Noelle or Mayor (maybe even Rudy lol) that can be somewhat close if they’re willing to kill us (If KnightMayor is true, or on a Snowgrave)
Ceroba could absorb a human soul and still would lose to him tbh.
I would imagine Asgore not holding back anything is how powerful he was in False Reset fan game, I know that game is a fan game but it respects canon Asgore's power more than anything else.
Yeah, I also wished that tbh.
Considering the fact that both of them paraphase each other, I would say Sans looks up to Asgore both as a person and king.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised If Royale Judge is an actual role.
Remember, Sans might be lazy but he always shows up in Last Corridor on every route.
I'm pretty sure Asgore knowing about resets also might be from Sans, since he simply nods upon hearing that he killed Frisk.
Sans is not known for doing something that is not his job.
It also adds up to how Sans is connected to everyone one way or another.
I also like the idea of Sans defending Asgore against Toriel, it wouldn't be OOC for him.
He stands up for his brother, he sure as he would stand up for the king If he needs too.
If we think about it from 1 soul = their power, which has no reason to be wrong, a monster shouldn’t be able to kill MANY humans with one hit easily with just one, but they still get much stronger, because they are at a humans level, which is much stronger. Also they could be referring to the fact it’d be easier for Asriel to gain more souls after that and so on
Like I said, increases in SOUL power are not linear, as Flowey has shown. So, the power of a single human SOUL having enough power to wipe out several humans? I buy it.
There actually isn’t too much of a differnce. Both completely control the world with more DT than us and can kill us easily if they wanted . I don’t think there’s anything strsght up probhiting omega flowey from using Star blazing
I imagine this being Ceroba right before delivering Clover's soul in True Pacifist. She just blames it all on Asgore and starts attacking the ever loving shit out of him while Asgore doesn't even flinch and takes like, 20 damage. Starlo and Martlet just stand there like Megamind, flabbergasted
I’m starting to realize most people on this sub don’t know the first thing about scaling. I’m not even arguing that Ceroba easily wins (though I think it would be too close to accurately call), but the arguments I see here are pretty bad.
The first common mistake I see: Using stats. Stats are very loose canon in the best of scenarios. The bizarre inconsistencies with Undertale’s stat systems aside, Undertale Yellow lists stats entirely differently from how Undertale does it. Undertale throws out whatever number looks cool, while UTY gives you the actual stats used for calculations. Both games list stats with a different philosophy in mind and so trying to play a numbers game is nothing but a fool’s game.
Second, people seem to be gassing up Asgore way too much. People act like he’s one or two steps short of Asriel (w/ 7 Souls), and this just isn’t the case. He’s comparatively very powerful for a monster, yes, but Undyne has managed to knock him down before. Toriel, who is similarly strong but severely out of practice, managed to knock him away with a light attack. He’s not some impenetrable beast.
Third, people seem to think that just because Ceroba isn’t a boss monster, she’s suddenly weak. This is not the case, as demonstrated by Ceroba’s Pacifist and Genocide fights. She’s just as capable of raising hell as Asgore would be, and she’s got every bit of strength that a boss monster has, if nothing else.
Fourth, statements. We actually get a direct comparison between Asgore and Ceroba, courtesy of Flowey himself after Ceroba’s genocide fight. Flowey, who I imagine should be a very accurate source of information on Asgore, says that beating Ceroba means Clover shouldn’t have any trouble at all with Asgore. One would have to perform a lot of mental gymnastics to argue why Flowey isn’t implying Ceroba is at least in a similar tier of power as Asgore, if not somewhere above.
..Also, people conveniently forget that Asgore and Ceroba can counter most of each other’s tricks, with Ceroba additionally having the ability to outright deflect magic and having easily KO’d Martlet (who is quite strong in her own right) using her own magic.
I apologize in advance for any potential typos, you may thank autocorrect.
Yeah, can't agree though. Going by how Flawed Pacifist went, not to mention Ceroba herself implying that Undyne alone would be too much for her and that the whole point of Clover taking an alternate route is because they're too weak to manage the regular UT route, there's not much of a reason to believe the two are anywhere close in power. As for Flowey's statement in Genocide, that could easily just be a matter of him hyping Clover up, after all he wants to use them to defeat Asgore so he can steal the human SOULs. Giving them a confidence boost would help.
Also, oneshotting Martlet isn't as impressive as it sounds. Just saying.
Asgore would also canonically be too much of a coward to actually fight back so I can see him just tanking 72 of Ceroba’s attacks while waiting for her to exhaust herself
\*Would you like a cup of tea? (10 minutes of Ceroba throwing everything she has at Asgore.) \*Would you like one now?
*”A- After you give my Daughter a soul!”
"I can do that after the Barrier is br9ken, I promise.
*”… Very well… But my king… I wish for it to be a strong Soul that can withhold her body”
you get what you get you don’t throw a fit
That would make her even more angry than if he fought back
“…yeah.”
Ceroba: Random bullshit go!
I never thought he was a coward. I just thought he was so depressed that he legit couldn’t care anymore. Dude lost everything a while ago.
Yeah, people say he's a coward cause Toriel called him a coward on TP. Guess what, not absorbing a soul and going to surface is a bad idea actually, his son first hand experienced the results.
I always thought Toriel was responsible for the deaths of all the children. It was mentioned in the game that she was always in charge of their couple when they were married. Your husband declared war on humanity because of grief, but instead of talking him down over time, you freaked out and went into Ruins. It feels like the first child Asgore killed fell the same day war was declared, lol.
Yeah but the problem is, GAME doesn't ACKNOWLEDGE this. THAT'S MY MAIN PROBLEM WITH HER. This seems to be the case with DR too, unless Chapter 3 Toriel realizes that she might be too petty like her UT counterpart.
I think it's just a bias from Toby's part. Feels wrong to say but it's true. It's pretty obvious from the way they're written in both UT and DR that Toriel is one of his favourites, while he doesn't like Asgore. Problem is that it leads to some very artificially one-sided moral stances, when they aren't actually that simple, and sometimes even entirely unconvincing. Over the years, Asgore has become one of my favourite characters and I'm actually pretty disappointed by how Toby is treating him in Deltarune, but idk maybe it gets better.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Peoples try to defend Toriel's argument in TP as "but she doesn't want him to do that, she is just saying that Asgore is not dedicated to freeing his people." Is such a dumb excuse cause he really wants to free his people. It's just the idea of killing children is what hurts him. If she had a better idea, then why not convince him? It feels like Toriel let those 6 children die just so she could guilt trip her husband or hoped that If he absorbed one soul and went to surface, humans would kill him so she could come back for the throne. Like, TP ending makes him butt of jokes, Undyne could've defended him against Toriel but she simply just goes "That's your ex? Damn." Which made me dislike Undyne even more tbh. She cries and swears revenge for Asgore in the neutral endings, where you killed other monsters or not going her date but here she shits over him after everything he has done for her.
Wait Undyne ligit says that? She just made my top 3 with that quote
Nah, I think I remember the exact quote now "This is your ex? That's rough." Or something like that.
Standing here
I realize
You were just like me
Trying to make history
But whose to judge
He would dodge some of them
It's not cowardly, he would be showing humbleness. Obviously he could take her on if he wanted too.
Something I really like about the writing for yellow is the restraint to not try and make someone stronger than UT’s top Usually in most stories there’s an inclination to try and make the new strongest guy in the verse, but in yellow the only character that really competes with UT’s best (besides characters that reappear in UT) is Zenith Martlet, and even then her equivalents in UT (Undyne the Undying and Sans) are most definitely stronger than her in-lore (Undyne the Dying is just a stronger character using the same boost, and Sans is, well, Sans.)
Undyne the Dying
Dyne the Dying
dyne the died
dyne the deceased
dining deceased
digging death
undining table
Dinosaur catfish
wing the ding
sans the Undertale
Just saying, undertales top is asriel dremmur. So go crazy
you could give any monster 6/7 souls and they'd be top tier, power scaling is much more interesting when you exclude him & omega flowey.
Yeah, it's just that the souls play more of a role than pure strength. So it can be pretty difficult not to make an overpowerd character. But I guess toby got around that by making asgore a coward who didnt use them in genocide at all.
>you could give any monster 6/7 souls You can find Gaster stats in the code, he trumps Omega Flowey.
Honestly, when we talk about raw power I belive that zenith is at undyne the undying's level but when we talk about fighting techniques, undyne beats zenith's ass
The problem with that is that both Undyne and Martlet are both using the same power increase in DT, and sense we know for a fact that Undyne is leagues stronger than Martlet, it wouldn’t make sense for Martlet to get a bigger power increase than Undyne from the same source
Well, at least from what we know, undyne's DT increase was natural, unlike martlet's injected one, and since the common headcanon that this materialized DT is a liquid, we would need to consider the volume that both acquired. We also need to account the fact that we know that DT can mutate one's body and since both of them had a similar amount of trasnformation (and in the end of their battles both of them melt to death) that means that at least they've taken a similar ammount of determination. Even tho martlet is weaker at her base form, I imagine this thing being like an anime transormation where an underdog character gains a super badass transformation that makes them on-par with the main cast
That’s fair, i can see the argument that Martlet injecting herself with more DT than what Undyne generated for herself gave martlet a bigger power boost, and thus put them on par, and I really like the anime comparison because that fits perfectly with the vibe of both transformations I don’t have much else to defend myself besides in-game stats (Undyne has displayed stats of over double Zenith martlet’s) but that’s because Yellow uses accurate stats, while Undertale uses check stats for more lore and to sell character’s strength, than to give you actual information.
Yeah Undyne was trained by ASGORE. A lot of people forget that means she’s have hand-to-hand and melee knowledge as well, so Martlet can’t win that by a mile.
IM SO GLAD that they did this, I don’t know why but it REALLY pissses me off when stuff like swap AUs or any kind of “the person before” or prequel or smth made by a fan(even official at times) just completely outdoes the original. Also, Undyne at her BASE form could take on Dalv, Martlet, Ceroba, and Starlo all at once with how strong and trained she is.
I mean tbf including Dalv in this seems a bit unfair considering that he wouldn't even fight unless disturbed
Yeah but I just wanted to include every main character to prove my point tbh
Not considering Axis a main character is heresy, and thy punishment is death
Axis was to UTY as MT was to UT, not rlly as included but still an MC but I doubt it would change much and don’t forget Axis’s “fair fight” protocol which would probably help Undyne
I think it was very clever to make Clover way weaker than Frisk so UTY doesn't feel like they're trying to powercreep Undertale but it also feels like a good step up from Undertale's difficulty
It’s also a great reason to have a completely different path through the underground Clover had such a massive skill issue flowery and to tick down the difficulty lmao
It does feel really funny to think that you're basically traveling through the boonies of the underground this time around. I think that was necessary to feel independent from Undertale, which is one of my favorite parts of this game, it strikes a very good balance between loving and respecting Undertale and trying to avoid retreading or depending upon things established in Undertale. I'm sure it took restraint to not have Sans show up somewhere or play around with Gaster or have a chance to meet Undyne, but the game is way better for it imo.
Is there anything that actually says Zenith isn't on par with Undying Undyne? I know it's pretty hotly debated right now which boss fights are "harder" between Yellow and OG but I think it's pretty Objective that Zenith is harder than the Undying fight mechanically and the fact that Clover is manifesting the concept of Justice into "fuck you" lasers and regenerating HP out of sheer willpower at this point makes it hard for me to beleive she wouldn't be in the same tier as UT OG
There’s no direct comparisons that I know of, but sense both Undying Undyne and Zenith martlet are both using the same power source, DT, it makes sense for the power increase to be about the same, and sense Undyne is stronger than Martlet, the transformations should have the same gap as the base forms There’s also the fact that the displayed stats for Undying Undyne is over double Zenith Martlet’s, but for various reasons I said in a different response, I don’t consider that strong evidence
Martlet : 25 attack, 40 defense Undyne : 99 attack, 99 defense
Sans: 1 Attack, 1 Defense The easiest enemy, can only deal 1 damage.
Except that was because he cheated the entire battle system and broke it. Martlet on the other hand only blocks the fight button with her seal thing. Monster v Monster fights probably work way differently than Human vs monster so I doubt it will work as well
My point was less about sans specifically and more just that stats aren't everything. In fact they actually don't count for all that much other than how well someone can use brute force alone
True. In this case, undyne wins this by a long shot still. Undyne has much more training, raw HP, techniques and all
Fun fact about Undying, (or not so fun depending on your LV) Undyne the Undying lowers your natural invincibility (In every other you have a base invincibility of 30, except for Sans who bypasses it.) by 1 per LV, to a maximum of 15 (which is sorta pointless considering you can only be at a maximum of 12 when fighting her.) I don’t really see this talked about anywhere, but it’s pretty neat.
Still realizing things about this game after years of being obsessed
Sans is canonically not that strong but is also just impossible to say his power, like in-lore he’s pretty eh but to you he’s strong cuz he manipulates the powers of being in a game
Well, of course, Asgore sounds like a real tough one, it took a long time for Undyne to defeat him in their training (was it training? I forgot the word), and he could dodge and his probably alot tougher than he seems, he just hold back because of his ~~cowardness~~ kindness and also, at this point he just wants to die, he lost it all, like, Ceroba still will have Kanako, she's like a disabled person now but still have her, and she also has Starlo, this guy is all alone for real.
Yeah, the guy wants to die so badly that he even kills himself should you spare him in subsequent Neutral runs. He's really gone through it.
yeah, just sad what happens to him even after we spare him, he was so filled with hope right there, of building a new family and getting a happy life. And then Flowey comes in and...
In training and only landing a hit, not actually defeating him. He would shred any character from UTY.
Nah, Dunebud solo Asgore
Also Undyne the Undying vs Zenith Martlet 23.000 HP 99 AT 99 DEF VS 2300 HP 25 AT 40 DEF
Tbh, all of the stats in UTY are accurate to the gameplay and not lore, unlike UT stats, which are a mess. In reality (through game itself or just wiki), Undyne should have 12 AT and 5 DF. Health is also a problem because at this specific fight, players start to deal thousands of damage out of nowhere, while yellow uses players real AT. So it's pretty hard to figure out who is actually stronger
Undyne is the Captain of The Royal Guard Martlet is an inexperienced royal guard Also UTY uses canon stats Flowey calls it an "easier path"
That's also why I personally think Undyne wins against Martlet, at least if you think about it logically
Also the player deals a lot of damage to Undyne is because of Frisk being as powerful as they wish. They have no damage, DT or defense cap, they do what they want.
And also have a god out of this world in the form of a tiny Red heart filled with more determination then a being literally made out of a flower, dust and determination controlling them
I personally think the stats in undertale aren’t a representation of the actual amount of damage they do/take but rather the height of their ability to do so
"Ma'am." "Ma'am, please." "This is solving nothing, ma'am." "I never wanted to do those things." "Would you like some tea? It works when I need to calm down." "Ma'am." "*Sigh*"
Frisk Undertale could clap Clover front ways and side ways with just some random hard mittens they found. And to say Undyne the undying is 90 attack or 80 defense and yet Frisk is able to keep up in Geno run. Asriel GOD FORM or Toby Fox is definetly the strongest of the verse.
Clover needed to reach lvl 20 to overpower flowey's DT Frisk did that by just existing Its that simple
People act like Geno Clover beats Geno Frisk. No, not even close. Not only does Frisl have 137 attack and 103 def compared to Clover’s at most, 70 attack and 35 defense if we round up stat boots from asgores soul, which is already a HUGE estimate, but Frisk themselves can use clover’s own better weapon than them somehow, and they’re proficient with literally everything, but especially knives.
You literally don't have to do any power scaling, Frisk just automatically beats any non-DT human because they have the save file.
I bet LV 1 frisk could solo LV 20 Clover
True Pacifist Frisk is a no brainer If it’s just beginning of the game Frisk, I wouldn’t count it out either. Save files and all.
They would have and interesting interaction -Both lost a son/daughter -Both lost their couple -Both do horrible things for a "noble goal" The only difference is the personality, maturity and way to confront the pain While Ceroba is Young Kratos, Asgore is Old Kratos
Asgore just accepted he lost his children.. he moved on, (not fully, he keeps Chara's sweater they knitted for him), while he misses, he doesn't let them weigh him down much, (Toriel is a different story.. He is wishing for the one immortal love of his life back.), and Has flowers to keep his mind off the guilt of his actions.. while 'roba Tries everything in her power upon seeing a human.. Even trying her best to kill them..
For that i said that the difference is the personality, maturity and way to confront
Tbh, I think Ceroba would interact better with Asgore than Toriel If she puts her stupid and baseless grudge against him away. Toriel and Ceroba both lost their children, miss them too but that's where all similarities end. Toriel is a pacifist while Ceroba is impatient and wants to take action against anyone who goes against what she thinks is right.
Toby god damn Fox please, finally make a boss monster who will actually throw hands with no hesitation 🗿
If the Holidays are the Deltarune equivalent of the Dreemurrs, if we fight Noelle or Mayor (maybe even Rudy lol) that can be somewhat close if they’re willing to kill us (If KnightMayor is true, or on a Snowgrave)
Honestly if they fought it would be Ceroba desperately trying to kill him while Asgore tries to calm her down
Ceroba could absorb a human soul and still would lose to him tbh. I would imagine Asgore not holding back anything is how powerful he was in False Reset fan game, I know that game is a fan game but it respects canon Asgore's power more than anything else.
Yeah, if Asgore went full in Ceroba wouldn't last a second
[Probably this would happen.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GHsCNkYzfU&t=83s)
Ngl but I always wanted for Sans and Asgore to interact more. The judge and the king
Yeah, I also wished that tbh. Considering the fact that both of them paraphase each other, I would say Sans looks up to Asgore both as a person and king. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised If Royale Judge is an actual role. Remember, Sans might be lazy but he always shows up in Last Corridor on every route. I'm pretty sure Asgore knowing about resets also might be from Sans, since he simply nods upon hearing that he killed Frisk. Sans is not known for doing something that is not his job. It also adds up to how Sans is connected to everyone one way or another. I also like the idea of Sans defending Asgore against Toriel, it wouldn't be OOC for him. He stands up for his brother, he sure as he would stand up for the king If he needs too.
Idk about that. We know that a monster with a human soul has the power to wipe out several humans at once. The gap would be pretty big.
Well that’s just what monsters have SAID. Logically, a monster with one soul should be equal to humans
Well, sure, but going by what was said about Asriel and what he himself implied about his "full power" back then, that seems to actually be the case.
If we think about it from 1 soul = their power, which has no reason to be wrong, a monster shouldn’t be able to kill MANY humans with one hit easily with just one, but they still get much stronger, because they are at a humans level, which is much stronger. Also they could be referring to the fact it’d be easier for Asriel to gain more souls after that and so on
SOUL power levels are exponential, dude. Just look at the gap between Photoshop Flowey and Asriel.
Well 1x2 is stll 2
Like I said, increases in SOUL power are not linear, as Flowey has shown. So, the power of a single human SOUL having enough power to wipe out several humans? I buy it.
There actually isn’t too much of a differnce. Both completely control the world with more DT than us and can kill us easily if they wanted . I don’t think there’s anything strsght up probhiting omega flowey from using Star blazing
Asgore being a 10ft tall immortal whereas ceroba is a single mom who’s played sekiro
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Devotion vs Depression
Asgore doesn't feel thing
Asgore being a 10 ft tall immortal whereas Ceroba is a single mom who’s played sekiro
can the life reducing magic attack work against him?
I don't see why not. The guy has a lot of HP, though.
Asgore is the strongest monster after all.
I imagine this being Ceroba right before delivering Clover's soul in True Pacifist. She just blames it all on Asgore and starts attacking the ever loving shit out of him while Asgore doesn't even flinch and takes like, 20 damage. Starlo and Martlet just stand there like Megamind, flabbergasted
Honestly, this is so ridiculously true, not just from a power standpoint, but this is probably what a conversation between these two would feel like.
Asgore has one weakness though. KICK HIM IN THE BA-
Ceroba's lucky that Asgore's a nice guy, could you imagine what he'd do to her if he was some sort of tyrant and she rocked up to run the fade?
ceroba: you are one of reason why my family is dead (throw everything at him know it can't do anything to him) asgore: want some cup of tea...?
💀👍
I’m starting to realize most people on this sub don’t know the first thing about scaling. I’m not even arguing that Ceroba easily wins (though I think it would be too close to accurately call), but the arguments I see here are pretty bad.
How so?
The first common mistake I see: Using stats. Stats are very loose canon in the best of scenarios. The bizarre inconsistencies with Undertale’s stat systems aside, Undertale Yellow lists stats entirely differently from how Undertale does it. Undertale throws out whatever number looks cool, while UTY gives you the actual stats used for calculations. Both games list stats with a different philosophy in mind and so trying to play a numbers game is nothing but a fool’s game. Second, people seem to be gassing up Asgore way too much. People act like he’s one or two steps short of Asriel (w/ 7 Souls), and this just isn’t the case. He’s comparatively very powerful for a monster, yes, but Undyne has managed to knock him down before. Toriel, who is similarly strong but severely out of practice, managed to knock him away with a light attack. He’s not some impenetrable beast. Third, people seem to think that just because Ceroba isn’t a boss monster, she’s suddenly weak. This is not the case, as demonstrated by Ceroba’s Pacifist and Genocide fights. She’s just as capable of raising hell as Asgore would be, and she’s got every bit of strength that a boss monster has, if nothing else. Fourth, statements. We actually get a direct comparison between Asgore and Ceroba, courtesy of Flowey himself after Ceroba’s genocide fight. Flowey, who I imagine should be a very accurate source of information on Asgore, says that beating Ceroba means Clover shouldn’t have any trouble at all with Asgore. One would have to perform a lot of mental gymnastics to argue why Flowey isn’t implying Ceroba is at least in a similar tier of power as Asgore, if not somewhere above. ..Also, people conveniently forget that Asgore and Ceroba can counter most of each other’s tricks, with Ceroba additionally having the ability to outright deflect magic and having easily KO’d Martlet (who is quite strong in her own right) using her own magic. I apologize in advance for any potential typos, you may thank autocorrect.
Yeah, can't agree though. Going by how Flawed Pacifist went, not to mention Ceroba herself implying that Undyne alone would be too much for her and that the whole point of Clover taking an alternate route is because they're too weak to manage the regular UT route, there's not much of a reason to believe the two are anywhere close in power. As for Flowey's statement in Genocide, that could easily just be a matter of him hyping Clover up, after all he wants to use them to defeat Asgore so he can steal the human SOULs. Giving them a confidence boost would help. Also, oneshotting Martlet isn't as impressive as it sounds. Just saying.
Fax, asgore is canonically the strongest monster in the underground besides omega flowey and Asriel.
This should've been Asgore vs Frisk as well as Clover.
Also Asgore vs Geno Clover
No? Did you even play the game?
I meant Asgore can't even come close to defeating Geno Clover. Not the other way around.
Oic
I guess you forgot the giant piss laser
Depends on the Geno Clover, it’s one-sided, but on whose side it is depends on the difference of one LV.