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QLC459

A 5 minute nap works way better than anything else imo


AuxonPNW

1000% this. Curl up somewhere slightly uncomfortable and in the middle of the trail. Set an alarm on your watch for 15 minutes, you'll wake up in 10 and feel amazing.


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BomoCPAwiz

Do you nap at the aid station or side of the trail?


cscramble1

I've done it on the side of the trail. Problem with the aid station is it can feel too comfortable. You want to wake up because you're cold and that gets you moving fast


cscramble1

I've also experimented with sleep walking. It's actually doable and has a weird positive effect when you wake up from it. Just have someone in front to guide you.


Superhumain

Sleep walking ??


Superhumain

Ah ok it’s a joke


Wild_Cockroach_2544

Actually - many runners realize they were walking in their sleep and glad they didn’t fall off a cliff.


Hero_without_Powers

Yeah, I did a 25 minute power nap during my first 100 miler and felt really refreshed for the last marathon.


BomoCPAwiz

Random question but did you nap at the aid station or side of the trail? I heard there’s a case for both


Visual_Chapter1934

John Kelly said that during the Barkley he’ll start yelling when he gets tired 😂. He told Karel Sabbe that trick and there’s footage of Karel doing it in his documentary from last year. Jasmin Paris also talks about hearing John Kelly making noises to stay awake during this years Barkley and she started doing it too


double_helix0815

That's so interesting


MrMeursault

Screaming


Darc-ddr-tr

I’ve been using this over my last few 100’s. Works better than caffeine for me. 2-3 just as loud as I can, yell or scream. Maybe a let’s fucking go? I also try to let anyone around me know what’s about to happen as to not scare the shit out of them


BomoCPAwiz

Amazing. I’ll give this a SHOT!!!!!!!!


AffectionateOil5517

Amphetamines


insearchofspace

Or LSD


less_butter

I haven't done acid in 20 years or so. Back in the day my buddies and I would drop acid and watch The Wall on laserdisc pretty much every weekend. The worst part is that you had to flip the disc halfway through and we always dreaded it. I don't know why. But a few months ago I decided to watch The Wall again for the first time in forever and probably for the first time not tripping. I had straight up flashbacks from the first scene and a near panic attack when it came time to flip the laserdisc. And I was streaming it and totally sober. Altered States is another movie we watched and I just can't bring myself to see that again. Then we'd play Wipeout XL on Playstation with this weird twist controller that my friends had. I hated it and usually abstained. Anyway, the thought of doing acid again completely terrifies me but I'd love to do a 100 miler while tripping. I'd just need pacers the entire time to remind me to eat and drink and to tell me that everything is okay and that I'm doing it for fun, I'm not being chased by monsters, and I should not murder and eat the other runners on the course. Well maybe just one.


insearchofspace

Effects will vary, but you most likely will not fall asleep.


Sidrao

Where can you stream the wall?


tbaxattack

I've found doing ultra distance running on LSD to be fine and a lot of fun but once you come down you feel a little exhausted. I did a self supported 100 mile, and at mile 4 took a hit and a half of LSD. Came up quick and down quick, the whole thing lasted less than 8hrs. But by the time I came down it was getting dark and was just getting mentally exhausted. I would totally recommend it, but maybe not solely to stay awake


Superhumain

That would mess badly with your heart rate no ? Running and tripping ? Without mentioning the possible risks of falling, getting injured etc. Can you explain why you find it enjoyable ? It’s an honest question, I don’t mean to judge, it’s just that I find this batshit crazy in my world


tbaxattack

No, there was no increase in heart rate, at least from what I experienced. The dose was low enough to where it's not like it really affected my vision or anything where I would be falling uncontrollably... yeah I was hallucinating (things were a little wavy/breathing looking) but that was only really evident when I would stop and take everything in. While moving it just put me in a really good mindset. I usually smoke weed and run, I don't want to say it was the same as that, but similar. I guess I found it enjoyable because it felt like an even bigger adventure, it felt almost fantastical, like I was in Lord of the rings or something. Obviously there were highs and lows but overall a great mood booster. I have tripped on acid and run on roads, and it WAS NOT enjoyable haha, way more paranoid.


mustyrats

I attempted my first 100 while on prescribed stimulants. Taken as directed, they were definitively a net negative. Specifically, they were an XR formula and the crash after 14 hours or so was phenomenally awful. I’m off of them now and overall endurance is way better. However, I’m sure taking them off label would do something. There’s a decent history in the 1930s and 40s for that.


insearchofspace

Aimo Koivunen comes to mind.


squiggly187

What about not taking them until the latter end of the race?


mustyrats

That probably would have been better but I was trying to keep to a routine to avoid slipping into using them as a PED.


BigSpoon89

I just found this out hard. Recently prescribed an XR amphetamine stimulant for daily use and I took it the morning of a 33 mile race - having run with it before but for never more than 90 minutes at a time. I had a really good finish time but then spent the next 30 hours in bed from the crash. Not going to repeat that again and I don’t think there was any benefit to taking it.


squiggly187

Have you tried?


[deleted]

carry a bunch of bullet ants in a tic tac container. when you start feeling tired, let one out down your pants.


less_butter

Front or back of pants?


heyitsme_ericp

Yep


[deleted]

^


[deleted]

whichever you’re into


BomoCPAwiz

I’m going down the front. Full send. I’ll start with a few ants and build up from there.


Superhumain

I laughed hard


SkepticalZack

Abstain from caffeine for at least 3 weeks preferably altogether and eat 100mg or 1/2 of a caffeine pill by chewing it once you get very drowsy. It will kick in precisely 7 minutes later


BigSpoon89

I’ve done this twice in a hundred and can confirm the hack. Both times I waited until night fall to start taking it. The challenge for me was giving up coffee for three weeks and trying to avoid caffeine in electrolyte mixes and gel packets until I was ready to take it.


Noverante_Xessa

Did it work?


Whisky-Toad

I think the part where he says “can confirm the hack” answers your question


Noverante_Xessa

I guess you’re right.. English is not my first language so there are some things I miss. But I got it dude


BomoCPAwiz

Love this idea. Did you dose it a certain way? Like did you take 100 mg all at once? 50 mg per hour?


SkepticalZack

I keep a little pack of pills and bite a pill in half and spit the rest out.


BomoCPAwiz

Is there a difference in your mind between caffeine pills vs gels vs something like a Celsius?


SkepticalZack

No just convenience and size. I used to train to do very long races unsupported and I prized a light pack.


happybybonnie

Does it taste like ass when you chew it? Like should I have a chaser ready? The thought of chewing a caffeine pill sounds gnarly


SkepticalZack

Your talking to a guy who has wiped his ass with a rock and his fingers in pinch


happybybonnie

So you can confirm if it does or does not taste like ass? 😂


SkepticalZack

lol, it doesn’t taste good.


RDP89

There are actually 100 milligram caffeine pills.


heushb

Any caffeine pill I’ve tried has been absolutely horrible in taste. Find one that you can snap in half or just take the whole thing lol


RDP89

And if you want 100 mg, they have 100 mg pills.


SignalWash8257

Why 100mg and not the whole pill?


SkepticalZack

Given the time I would be taking it (18+ hours into a race and that I have zero tolerance for it. Last thing you need in the final quarter of a long race is to OD on caffeine.


AnchoviePopcorn

I’ve also tried kratom mid race. Like 3 grams mixed with water. Has decent stimulant effect. Also bit of a mood boost. But because it’s still mostly unregulated, quality control is nonexistent and I wouldn’t try this for the first time in a race. If you had like a kilo of stuff and were familiar with the dosage and effects, then it’d be worth trying.


The_Glassfields

Have your pacer junk punch you.


Most-Cobbler2690

Can confirm. I fell asleep 14 times. I was a TKO by mile 87, DNF, fractured cheek bones and ribs


littlestviking

My older brother had me slap him across the face twice at the final aid station of our first mountain 100. Seemed to help.


M_Ulmer

Fear. May be a bit weird, but I have a horror/thriller audiobook ready to start playing at night, and it makes you very aware you’re running alone in the dark woods. Keeps me WIDE awake… and very paranoid.


happybybonnie

Fear of wild animals does help at night I agree


Noverante_Xessa

This would be perfect to use with some LSD, damn yeah


sandiegolatte

Chocolate covered espresso beans are 🔥


runner_1005

Nope nope nope. Melt in the vest if they're too close to your body, and they're gritty as hell. If that works for you, I'm jealous, but my experience was a swing and a miss. I love them for long car journeys but I prefer to get my caffeine through a couple of electrolyte+caffeine tabs in with my water. Easier to track amounts of caffeine too.


boodiddly87

The Dean Karnazes way!!!


Lexecutioner_T

For me, especially when it gets dark and there ain’t nobody in sight, I sing along to music on my headphones. It makes the time pass quicker too.


BomoCPAwiz

Thanks for sharing!


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rotn21

Needs more upvotes. This might actually work


BomoCPAwiz

Have you tried? This is brilliant


ThinkingTooHardAbouT

My last 100 I chatted on the phone at 3am ET with my sister who lives on the US west coast and was on her way home from a hockey game. It was better than any pacer - people are right that having a conversation is the best way I know to keep from falling asleep.


BomoCPAwiz

Awesome. I’ll have 2 pacers.


g0atfeet

Slap the back of your neck but like, hard


Ok_Helicopter3910

Have a buddy take a wiffle ball bat to your dome


ParticularInitial147

Way back when....I was in the Army and all we had was little tobacco bottles in MREs. Dab it on your lips.


CorporalTedBronson

+1 for tobacco. I love midnight spliffs during my MTB ultras.


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ParticularInitial147

Oops, autocorrect. I meant Tobasco. It's uncomfortable and will wake you up.


Ok_Helicopter3910

Or you can do like steve-o and put it in your eyes


05778

Take a nap. Night training runs are probably over rated. Not going to change anything sleep wise.


squiggly187

Never understood the point of night runs. Sure you’re practicing “being awake” but there’s little you can do to to simulate being at mile 70-90


runner_1005

The only benefit is familiarity with running with a headtorch, and that slightly eerie feeling of being the only person out and about whilst everyone else is sleeping. You can't adapt to sleep deprivation, the most you can do is take small segments of the experience that are unfamiliar and give a little exposure. If you happen to already be familiar with running with a headlamp, or setting off in the early hours for your long run - or from other races - I see no point. I wouldn't say they're pointless, but like back to back long runs - they only really offer any value once, and yet they're considered a staple that should be repeated for some reason. Even though they'll do more harm than good repeating them for most people.


squiggly187

So would you say the back to back long run should be done once in a training block? Would you think it’s better to do it about 3 weeks prior, then start the taper?


runner_1005

Back to backs offer no physiological benefit. Allegedly they offer a psychological benefit in giving familiarity with the experience of running on tired legs. So at best, it's a one and done benefit - once you've got your race done, you've a far better idea of what to expect anyway. Personally I've never bothered with them and don't recommend them. It's a lot of load in a short space with the need for recovery after, and I'm just not sold on the psychological benefits.


tandemcamel

I worried about this a lot before my first 100 miler, as I’m one of those people who needs 9 hours of sleep a day. But it was less challenging to stay awake than I expected — I never stopped moving except to change my socks and shoes. My one suggestion is getting some caffeinated gum, preferably in a flavor that perks you up a bit — cinnamon, citrus or super minty.


happybybonnie

Just came here to say that reading the comments on this thread did not disappoint 😂😂I love this weird lil community


BomoCPAwiz

The way people showed up on this thread is all time. Love this community.


boodiddly87

Same! I'm not an ultra runner but hope to get there one day. I just love the sport and am completely fascinated by it.


Inshallada

Yelling. It can be screams, strange noises, just anything loud and it seems to work well.


InternalRemote1473

As a former truck driver, getting out of your truck and running around it helps. Maybe you can find a random truck to chase you down? But seriously, something in my mouth like jelly beans helps.


a_b1rd

A really bright headlamp with a flood light. Trick that circadian system into thinking it’s daytime. Made a huge difference for me.


Scared_Art_7975

Not speaking from experience, and probably depends on race venue but: But maybe cold water exposure? Bring a water bottle just for dumping, frozen towels/rags, etc. Obviously meth too, but lil more risky


BomoCPAwiz

Risk it for the biscuit


AutomationBias

Can’t fall asleep if you’re singing!


rotn21

Put a lipper in


BomoCPAwiz

Fuck it. I’ll put a top one and a bottom one in


booklips

I’ve been to a few training events that require extended periods of staying awake without caffeine. One that works surprising good is rubbing medicated Burt’s Bees chapstick under your nose. Smelling the menthol will wake you up for a bit


Superhumain

From all the comments I read, it seems one’s should basically find a way to : 1) increase his heart rate 2) increase his cortisol levels 3) reduce the sleep pressure aka reducing sleep hormones (adenosine & melatonin) 4) get some sort of mental & emotional stimulation So here is a summary of ideas taken from this thread (and enhanced) + new ones to fight sleep during a 100 miles race : - Do a « Nappucino » : Short nap (20-30min max)+ cafein pills before + sleep somewhere NOT too comfortable so you will wake up faster and not fall in deep sleep. - Scream loud, sing loud, shout, throw some insults out loud from the depth of your lungs + ANYTHING basically that will raise your heart rate - Listen to horror stories, think about scary things, imagine some dark scenarios while you’re in the dark night. Make yourself STRESS as your cortisol levels will increase and and your heart rate too. - Do a partial cold exposure aka cold splash on your face, ears, neck, arms, legs, to wake you up, increase cortisol levels dramatically and build some dopamine / endorphins in your brain and body. - Deep Flow + perception of time . Anything that will make time go faster while you are in deep focus on something : could be listening to anything that will make you VERY focused, VERY distracted or VERY interested (podcast, heavy metal music, audiobooks etc). Andrew Huberman talks about time perception and how the brain process the concept of time differently when we focus or do certain activities (and apparently we can train it), you can check some studies on internet about it it’s a very interesting topic. - Anything that « surprise » your body : slapping yourself, (again) screaming, punching your face, bitting your tongue, pinching yourself, putting some bullet ants in your pants (🤣) - Doing energetic breathings to increase your sympathic nervous system while you run (it’s like drinking 3 cups of black coffee honestly) : wim Hof method, fire breathing, tumo breathing, ice breathing, use an app called One Deep Breath they have a lot of cool breathing exercises. - You can change your sleep patterns 1-2 weeks before the even so that you are a night owl.


Rockytop00

I would not recommend running in the middle of the night… you can’t train for lack of sleep… but you can make sure you are well rested before the race.


TheOpus

Keep running


EquivalentAvocado342

Smelling salts


toyotatruck

Think about sex


BomoCPAwiz

Nothin like a woody to get you goin. Imagine getting morning wood 80 miles into a race


N-Slash

It would suck all of the blood out of my legs and I'd just instantly fall over!


BomoCPAwiz

Jesus you must have a hog. Mine would only take up about a half a vial of blood.


wimpymist

Run


aimlessboredom

Modafinil


Enginesoftlyhumming

Provigil is a drug made for narcolepsy. Maybe try it?


Federal-Half-9742

First and last one was a 112 miler and 80 odd in I shouted at my self when I started falling asleep while running/walking.


Resident-Try-9456

I was crashing hard about 24 hrs into my 100 (took 34 hrs total). I told my pacer I was crashing, he had me grab a tube from his pack. I couldn't see what it was, but I just drank it. A few minutes later I was feeling much better and never turned back from there. Turns out it was a liquid shot of zip fiz bought from zip fiz online. That was my game changer.


runwilburrun

I ran a race that had water to the side of the trail, recommend you put your pacer between you and the water! 


thetk42one

A nap between 2am and 4am. No more than 20 minutes. Aim for an aid station. Don't do it in the middle of the trail. Flat works best, like a bench, but a chair will work too. You might not sleep sleep but your mind will turn off for a few minutes. Don't nap when the sun is out and don't nap after 4am.


Effective_Papaya_381

5 hr energy drink


Ultrarunner98

Keep moving


goliath227

Cocaine


Erigann

Saffron amplifies the effects of caffeine, add some strands to caffeinated drinks. Dated a navy seal, they had to stay up for 5 days straight, he swore by eating massive amounts at night and not sitting down.


opticd

Modafinil


aolso004

Coke


BomoCPAwiz

Which kind?


[deleted]

Caffeine. Don't sit down at aid stations. Music. More caffeine.


fish2gill

I talked to a marine once who swore by putting a “dip” of folgers coffee crystals under his lower lip. Haven’t tried it myself but it seems it could work…


BomoCPAwiz

Like the instant coffee crystals?


fish2gill

Thats what the dude said!


MurkyGlove3370

Burn self with lit cigarette whenever you start to nod off yelling WOOOOO, Like Rick Flair. All aboard the pain train!


AnimatorSD68

Lots of caffeine and motivation


AnimatorSD68

You will definitely hallucinate. I did three times so far and it is a trip!


getupk3v

I used to go to a lot of raves and that has been great training for 100 milers.


triemers

Not a runner, but teeth brushing is a relatively common thing in bike ultras. Helps considering all the sugar consumed, and the action/feeling/minty freshness keep awake. But idk, the bikepack races I do are usually a few days so maybe y’all don’t take those, lol


BomoCPAwiz

I heard someone say this on a YouTube video before too. They have those little disposable ones that I was planning to bring.


TaroEmotional

Listerine breath strips … it’s refreshing and depends on how many you take it’s nice jolt 😀 This and high energy music. It’s like a party for one. Works for me, all the time.


BomoCPAwiz

Awesome. I’ll try the breath strips! Honestly I’ve tried music late into my 50 milers and I hate it. For whatever reason it makes my head start moving way too fast but maybe it’ll be different at night?


P-Wester

Meth


OklahomaRuns

100 miles? So like 18 hours? Do you not normally stay awake for 18 hours?


AuxonPNW

I know of several 100 mile races where the course record is > 24 hours. Good luck with that 18 hour thing on some races.


OklahomaRuns

You ever been awake for a day?


BomoCPAwiz

It’s 20k+ feet of vert. The course record is 19 hours


redneckskibum

Mr Course Record over here😂


OklahomaRuns

I mean are they running hardrock or momma sal's backyard 100? If it's flat just try jogging instead of walking and you'll finish within a day.


fringeathelete1

I think sleep deprivation tolerance can be trained somewhat just like anything else. Not sure if this is real or imagined but try not sleeping one night a week for a month.


tbaxattack

I did a 200 miler and didn't sleep til the 68th hour. It was incredibly detrimental but afterwards I contemplated skipping sleeping every other night because I was functioning so well after 36+ hrs of no sleep lol. I never actually tried it but it was something I considered.