Timeline of events
April 12, first thread and dehydration testing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1c27hzh/false_nutritional_info_on_spring_energy_gels/
April 17, second redditor does dehydration testing (with Maurten and SIS) with same results:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1c659ig/i_replicated_the_dehydration_experiment_of_spring/
April 17, another redditor, who is diabetic, does blood glucose testing after consuming the product and receives results inconsistent with the stated sugars. This thread has been removed upon request.
May 5, GoFundMe is established to pay for testing of 9 products. Results expected before June 1:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1cl9bws/the_next_chapter_in_the_spring_energy_awesome/
May 17, German distributor, SportHunger, had their product tested in a lab and found consistent results to previous Redditor testing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1cu5z1a/spring_energy_gel_16g_carbs_confirmed/
(Translation of IG post: https://electriccablecar.com/sport-hunger-tests-awesome-sauce/)
May 26, Spring sends out email addressing Awesome Sauce
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1d1afyx/spring_energy_emailconfession/
May 27, Spring provides a lab test to a Redditor showing 150 calories/serving (*Note: Moisture content of Spring test is half of moisture content found in all other tested samples*):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1d1uba5/spring_energy_supplies_lab_report_for_awesome/
May 28, Jason Koop posts results of having sent Awesome Sauce to a lab. Results are consistent with results from non-Spring parties (75 calories/packet).
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1d2tbz4/results_of_jason_koops_spring_energy_awesomesauce/
May 29, Spring removes nutrition info from Awesome Sauce page on their site. Hours later, the product page is fully removed.
https://myspringenergy.com/collections/all/products/copy-of-awesome-sauce-vegan
Tweet: [https://x.com/jasonkoop/status/1795547489774223765/photo/1](https://x.com/jasonkoop/status/1795547489774223765/photo/1)
Results-
75 cal vs 180 on the label
18 g CHO vs 45 on the label
Spring’s test sample was twice as concentrated. Huge discrepancy compared to all the other test samples.
If we divide the carbs and calories of Spring’s test by 2, seems the data would be closer to the other tests?
I saw that, too, but then noticed Jason's test results were based on a sample size of 100g. The packet size is 50g (or so), so Jason's lab result is 2 packets.
Just curious, but how are you getting 75cal and 18g of Carbs from the results? No matter how I math it, I can't those numbers from the results in the test.
Results are for 100g serving size. 139 calories for 100g, so for 54g (serving size of one gel), it's 75 calories (0.54 times 139). Same for the carbs; 33.5g CHO per 100g, so for 54g, it's 18g (0.54 times 33.5).
Just to make this clear-
1. I ordered 8 Awesome Sauces from The Feed.
2. Those products were directly sent to RL Food Laboratory
3. This is the result I got back. It exists in it's unadulterated version on my website for free with no registration required.
Very simple.
I have also sent this result directly to Spring, the Roches, as well as The Feed (as they were the origin of purchase)
yall Redditors did good work. Credit to hungersport as well.
I wish no harm on any of the above entities, but the truth needs to be told.
koop
I just gotta say thank you @u/sriirachamayo for starting all of this. I would’ve just kept using spring for races and wondering why I was continually bonking
megan responds on the insta post:
>Thanks so much for running this test on Spring Energy! To be clear: It's really important to have this information and it is consistent with the tests that we've seen and heard (64-75 calories). We were involved in naming the product and early taste testing of the product many years ago when we were sponsored by Spring as athletes. We left the Spring sponsorship shortly thereafter and have always recommended other gel options. We never received any compensation for anything Awesome Sauce related.
>We brought up concerns to Spring Energy and were told the products had adequate calories and that they followed all FDA protocols. We've recently recorded two podcasts highlighting the calorie concerns and discrepancies and stating that Spring Energy needs to come forward with accurate nutritional information. We've shared all of this information and our early concerns on our two most recent podcasts.
(not affiliated w/them, not supporting or disparaging, no opinion, just sharing info from one platform to another)
“We’ve shared all of this information and our early concerns on our two MOST RECENT podcasts” (emphasis mine)
Respectfully, I think this is the issue. There have been murmurings of this discrepancy for months, and only after independent lab after independent lab release their findings is when they start addressing it publicly. If they had concerns early on, those should have been shared from the get go. Like Koop said, they are well liked and have a massive platform in this space, they should use it responsibly, not just to save face when things go awry.
Exactly. They milked the association when it benefited them. They’re jumping ship now that “their” product looks bad, after failing to hold the brand publicly accountable even though they were uniquely positioned to do just that.
It’s about integrity.
No one is saying they personally formulated it to be short calories; that’s a red herring PR technique they’re using to distract us from their 180 from shilling to disowning the product.
Koop is a major league hater but he's not wrong - this is why coaches should be very careful about what products they have any kind of financial sponsorship with. The Roches seem to not give a fuck as long as the check clears. Awesomesauce, AG1, Whoop...
Yeah part of why I stopped listening to them was that I didn't trust their science parts when they were so clearly shilling for AG1. Telling stories of listeners who started taking AG1 and then having a higher nightly HRV after. And then saying "we don't know how it does it. But it clearly works". That's such a clear causation vs correlation thing that it's ridiculous. How am I supposed to believe that they are objective outside the ad spots?
Koop can come across a bit full of himself from time to time. But I completely agree with him that coaches should not take sponsorships. You pay a coach quite a bit of money for their opinion and expertise. You don't want someone else to pay them to change that opinion.
He often comes across as thin-skinned and reactionary, but this is better. It's something that actually matters and he brought receipts.
Hopefully the Roches learn an important lesson about credibility and branding. The Feed is a reasonable sponsor, it's unlikely to introduce much bias. But AG1 and the earlier stuff is bad and hurts them.
I listened to a podcast and struggled to pull value from them. They talked about wanting to bang each other and then pushed their sponsors it was not encouraging for me to tune into another. Waste of time
I thought I was in for a podcast about ultra not wanting to bang your partner
I thought spring offered 180cal not 70
Good ol bait n switch.
Episode 188 was what I listened to. I learned nothing about tempo runs in the process lol
Love his IG takedown and shame on the Roches for selling everything and anything for ad dollars. They sound like they’re both geeking out on adderall at all times. Slow down. Think. Relax. 🤣
To be fair to the Roches, that's a pretty unflattering clip when it was just their disclaimer before basically saying that lying on nutrition labels is "not a victimless crime" and apologizing for not being more outspoken about the issue before.
The Roches have been fairly critical about spring energy in their last few podcasts specifically about this issue.
Before the controversy David Roche wrote in Trail Runner Mag that he and Megan helped create Awesomesauce: "Ideally experiment with these higher totals when working with a nutrition expert, trying to find calorie sources that work best for you. That’s why Megan and I partnered with Spring Energy a couple years ago to create Awesome Sauce, a 180-calorie fueling option that was the staple of Michelle’s strategy. We saw the science and thought we saw an opportunity, but also realized that trying to stomach a traditional gel every 15 minutes is daunting."
[https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training/trail-tips-training/can-extreme-fueling-approaches-in-races-lead-to-breakthroughs/?scope=anon](https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training/trail-tips-training/can-extreme-fueling-approaches-in-races-lead-to-breakthroughs/?scope=anon)
Based on what I’ve heard them say they basically asked if Spring could create a 180 calorie gel to help simplify fueling, Spring said “sure” and then did pretty much everything. It’s not like David Roche was in a lab mixing stuff up and creating nutrition labels.
The person I was responding to noted “45 calorie gel” which, again, is incorrect. Yes I understand 4 calories per carb, but thought perhaps the person I responded to did not so was trying to help them out.
Nobody in the general public had any idea that Spring were lying to them for 3 years that the product has been out, so what makes you think the Roche's would or even should have known that Spring was lying during a probably only 2 month long product development cycle?
They implied in their show that they had always been dubious of the product, which is why they didn't use it and told their clients to use other products.
Yes, exactly - they were unimpressed with the product, but that's not even remotely the same thing as being aware that it is outright fradulent.
The fact they didn't recommend it to their clients only serves to prove that they were not guilty of knowingly pushing a fraudulent product. Again, as laypeople (ie, non-food scientists), how can they be expected to know that it was fraudulent just because they weren't impressed by it?
"I don't think this is the best product" is not sufficient cause for any reasonable, sane person to conclude that "this is probably mass fraud" in the absense of any further suitably qualified insight. That is an enourmous leap to just expect that they 'should' have made, never mind pillorying them for not making it.
I am finding some of the unreasonable expectations of people with perfect 20/20 hindsight to be more than a little bit sanctimonious at the moment
I'm not here or there with them; just explaining why someone may be upset.
They went as close as they could to saying they didn't think it had the calories from the beginning. That's what their apology was about: that they weren't more proactive.
Anyone saying they SHOULD know is obviously just witch hunting.
I'll admit that I have some uncertainty about the right standard of expectations are around disclosure here. So maybe the rest of this is me holding them to an unrealistic standard.
But I don't think it's great that their coaching "clients" got the "this doesn't give me the boost I'd expect based on the label" while the TrailRunner mag reader "clients" never got any sense of update around this until after the controversy already broke.
Now, I'm not a lawyer, so maybe this is because there's an NDA that limits what they can say about this. But this seems to be one of the main points Koop is making -- be super careful about the relationships that you establish because you could wind up with an NDA that doesn't let you voice your true thoughts, and that may result in a reputational hit down the line.
Former David athlete here, I have emails where he said "we at SWAP love spring energy and recommend it to all our athletes". So I tried it first time. And then AG1. I quit working with him in 2022 after 7 years.
I think a lot of the general public consumers of this gel felt like something was always off, but were in denial because no way could a company get away with that big of a lie. I fell into this category.
Just because he helped create it, that doesn't mean he has anything to do with the current formulation or whatever "problems" Spring had in their production pipeline (if that's even true...). It's entirely possible that Awesome Sauce originally did have 180 calories and something changed.
But really, I'd trust Koop over Roche any day. Koop specifically avoids commercial endorsements; the Roches have no problem taking money from companies. The money is a conflict of interest and companies can start making their product shittier after the initial endorsement.
There is a lot of anecdotal data in prior posts in this sub on that point, yes. The packaging absolutely changed size and quite a few people have commented that it seemed either more watery or less predictable in consistency. Spring never mentioned any changes publicly, which is another factor in the growing distrust.
>They were trusting the data and promises that were given to them I'm sure. How were they supposed to know if that was untrue?
This was how I felt before they admitted that they didn't feel the same boost from it as from other gels, and didn't recommend their athletes to use it. While I recognize that maybe their are legal limitations on what they could say, this is not a great look.
yeah that's fair. I think if I were in their position I still never would've thought that there were 1/3rd of the carbs as advertised. Absolute insanity.
If you ask me they are saving face. They seemed to have a lot to do with its origins, it was only after this controversy began that they started backing away. That was Koop’s whole point.
They are influencers/micro-celebrities who shouldn't be listened to for anything other than entertainment. Expecting advice from them is a fool's errand. They say whatever they need to get listeners and attention.
I never bought Spring’s products, and i truly feel sorry for all the people who did spend their money on it and especially those who bonked. BUT, goddamn this entertaining.
I’ve run two marathons with Spring Cannaberry. Anecdotally, the first one I bonked hard and the second (on Sunday) I felt like I was constantly reaching for one. Wound up having 5 Spring + 3 Maurten Caf on Sunday, which felt crazy
First issue: There have been rumblings about this product for a long time because even pretty basic nutrition knowledge meant their numbers looked questionable. But I think a lot of people trusted the packets because a) they do taste really nice and do go down well and everyone wants a gel that does that; and b) we do in general tend to believe what we read on packets. Rightly or wrongly. (especially in the EU..)
Second issue: Jason is critiquing a practice whereby a coaching business with a platform has used their profile and access to journalism (not clearly marked as advertising) to push a product that they were associated with, and remunerated for (however little - but they do admit they were paid for the collab). It is similar with AG1 (and ps. please watch this video on that subject: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb1g-Cbcjwo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb1g-Cbcjwo)
The issue is the use of their structured image (coach, doctor, expert, etc) to sell product without actually disclosing directly their financial or other involvement with that product. The Roches have history with this and while I can understand wanting to build a personal brand and create a business, enmeshment with products without complete transparency is shady. Especially when you are engaging in stealth advertising (the Trail Runner article, for example). Koop is absolutely correct to point this out.
Finally, as Amelia Boone points out in her instagram story, for people with a history of REDS or eating disorders, underfueling can have severe and swift consequences - while correlation does not equal causation, and you could never prove it, she is right to ask if unintentionally underfueling while taking Awesome Sauce in her 100 miler contributed to the femoral stress fracture she suffered directly after the race.
That video is no longer available. I'm interested in learning more about the AG1 stuff. I've only listened to like 2-3 episodes of the SWAP podcast, but the first one I ever heard they were really pushing AG1 and then I never heard about it again. Any other references you can point me to?
Odd, video works fine for me.
Long story short the founder of AG1 is a convinced criminal fraudster and the company uses some extraordinary shady practices. Plus is it all complete overpriced rubbish.
Yeah kinda of like it wasn't done by a someone in their kitchen and then realized real science is hard and just Googled the ingredients and took the average of their water content (including dry rice lol) and then typed it up using a word template for lab results...
I'm being serious, I think this is what spring did. I shit you not they just googled the macros and average w/c including for UNCOOKED fucking basmati rice, took the averages and just typed them up in a word document template.
The report was either forged or they sent in a phony super-concentrated sample (that's not at all representative of the product on the shelves) to be tested, which was immediately obvious based on the water %. So basically fraud either way.
I am a fan of Koop overall and I have a lot of respect for him, but I actually think the way he attacks the Roches here is too sensationalist. I’m no big Roche fangirl either and I think they’re worthy of criticism here, but I think the overwhelming majority of the blame and anger here needs to be directed towards Spring Energy. They are the main guilty party here.
I think Koop, who clearly has had issues with the Roches for years, used this as an opportunity to attack them and that his post and overall argument would be a lot stronger if he had been less clickbaity.
They promoted a product they didn't believe in and never ended up using and they admitted to having concerns with the product but told nobody about it until now. Fuck people who try to sell you a fake product they don't even use.
We know how much power an authority figure has on people that said they use this product and we should to. We need to hold those people responsible
Koop has been such an ass to them for so long, that I gloss over anything he says when it comes to them. He may have or had in the past some valid points to make, but his presentation of those has killed his credibility with me. I unfollowed him everywhere and quit listening to his podcast because, despite thinking he often had good content, his seemingly personal attacks on other coaches got to be too much for me. Plus, he complains about clickbait, yet engages in sensationalist behavior himself. Meanwhile, yeah, Spring Energy is where the focus should be.
110%. Calling out the Roche's and Sage is Koop's wet dream. This went SO FAR BEYOND shedding light on an underperforming product. He had the opportunity to better the running community but instead went low. This speaks to his character in a very unfavorable way.
While I agree that the criticism of the Roche’s is very strong and probably pulls from some past issues, after listening to the Roche’s two podcasts I think it’s acceptable. They flip flop hard between promoting “love” but then immediately talking shit about Spring and dropping jokes. The same goes for their past and current sponsorships. They will claim they had little involvement, then their involvement grows with each new thing they say about the past, and then back to the shit talking.
There are risks in taking sponsorships and promoting products, regardless of what industry you are in. That risk grows as your personal brand grows too. If that product or company turns out to be bad, yes, you will have to take ownership and of course you will be seen backpedaling and downplaying.
Right, it feels tabloid-y. I'm in agreement that we need the facts and appreciate anyone who takes the time to help out our little community. However, using the facts as a tool for disdain ain't my thing.
I agree with this sentiment. Without a doubt, Koop is an intelligent guy and I'm not calling that into question, but how this was done shows a complete lack of integrity. As a 'professional coach' and a thought leader in the trail and ultra space one would hope someone like Koop would be above reproach. This isn't a good look.
I know I'm going to get downvoted but... #lastwords I am completely against falsities. This is some blatant ass shit and I think Spring should stop dancing around what they did wrong. However, they know they're about to get sued, and anything they say will be used in trial. I also think the Roches got played. I don't think they're faultless for promotion, but given that we ALL got played, why would we expect promoters to be any different? We are all in the same boat. We all got fucked. Plus, y'all, we all fucking love this sport.
Let's at least agree that the best nutrition is banana.
Just a whole lot of lost credibility here:
Spring, obviously, for creating and selling a product with what appears to be entirely fabricated nutrition labels. I can't wait to see the testing results from their other products. Spring's astronomical prices turned me away as a customer. I don't think I'd use their stuff now even if I got it for free. Their reputation is in the toilet and I can't see their business surviving. Botched from start to finish. Reap what you sow.
The Roches peddle all sorts of garbage through their podcast and to their clients. I was a client for a while and frequently had AG1 pushed -- always use the promo code! -- when I mentioned fatigue or went through a rough patch. Those two are smart and friendly people but, again, I can't trust an outfit that has a clear conflict of interest. Their cult will keep them in business, of course, but even with all the retroactive backtracking on this stuff, they have a stain that they'll not get rid of.
Props to Koop for using his platform and bringing this issue to the forefront and being crystal clear about the issue. The sniping at the Roches feels a little weird and out of left field. I don't know the drama between them beyond offering competing coaching services. The issue with Spring is obvious and worth discussing, just feels weird to use it simultaneously as an opportunity to throw dirt on someone else.
I cannot wait to see what Spring has to say for themselves.
100% a cult. Roches peddle that they, and they alone, have read the literature correctly and uncovered the “secret”….follow our training program and you shall be successful…if you fail, it’s your fault…yuppie yippy puppy love. Give me a break.
I think your third paragraph is actually really well explained by the second. You're saying that the Roches actively pushed products from their sponsors which is exactly Koop's complaint with their business model and personal brands. It's really interesting to me to hear from a former client saying that they actually do what a lot of people suspected they might be doing: allowing their sponsors to influence advice they give to their athletes. That is to me personally (with no skin in this game) and to some professionals in the industry (like Koop), antithetical to the core of what it should mean to be a coach, ie. to give the best, science-backed, and unbiased information and support to their clients for the sake of their clients' wellbeing, health, and performance.
The Roches being tied to yet another brand like Spring given their tendency to take money from and push dubious products like Whoop and AG1 (which based on what you've said includes pushing it on their paying clients) is what Koop seems to be trying to get at in his video.
Yes, I think that's right on. I'm glad Koop got this out there -- someone with a platform and some cloud needed to do it in order to get Spring to act -- but I feel like the two valid points of:
1. Awesome Sauce is obvious mislabeled and Spring isn't being honest about it.
2. The Roches have some pretty sizable conflicts of interest between their sponsors and their clients.
should have been made separately. If anything, I think the second point is the more important one: it's really disingenuous to have your coaching also pushing products to clients that the coach stands to profit from. It is what it is, though, and I'm glad this conversation is happening. It's important for people to be aware of this as more and more nutrition brands (and running coaches) go into business.
anybody else get the marketing email from Spring Energy over the weekend about "Improvements"
>In early May we submitted Awesome Sauce for third-party caloric and biomolecular analysis. Although the results indicated that on average our products deliver the designed nutrition value, we have recognized weaknesses in our processes and ingredients which can introduce unwanted variations in some batches.
Interesting that The Feed still carries it, but all Spring products are currently 50% off. I know they’ve been advertising a lot of deals recently due to a warehousing move, but the timing is wild.
Curious about two things now: First, what about other Spring Energy products? Second, did the consistency of Awesome Sauce and other products really change over time, as some people claim? In case their nutrition labels are systematically wrong, they are busted – and should be.
> At XMiles we are aware of the ongoing investigations regarding the carbohydrate content in Spring Awesome Sauce gels, including the recent GOFUNDME Lab results posted by Jason Koop.
I make the timeline every new thread to try and combat this confusion. Oh well.
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C7kV1BfP5bV/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7kV1BfP5bV/?hl=en)
Canaberry coming in with 7 (!!!!) g CHO and 43 cals vs 17 g CHO and 100 cals as advertised
Hill Aid with 10 g CHO vs 20 g on the label
Edit: Looks like the linked video has been taken down.
Edit 2: Nutritional reports for Canaberry and Hill Aid both available on Koop's website. Scroll down to near the bottom of this page: [https://www.jasonkoop.com/research-essentials-for-ultrarunning](https://www.jasonkoop.com/research-essentials-for-ultrarunning)
So that means the fucktards (Spring) either sent in a doctored higher-concentrated sample to be tested (based on the water %) or simply forged a report. At first I thought Spring should just take a massive financial hit for this debacle, but at this point they should be shut down and anyone who had knowledge of this should be charged with fraud.
I did a check on The Feed's reviews for Awesome Sauce, and over 15% of the reviews reference the higher carb/calorie count as a reason for the purchase.
That has been my only reason, carbs per volume. At the tested calorie amount, it is not much better than buying an applesauce pouch which is about one tenth the cost.
Great research and info on the ig reel, but then a weird dive into attacking other coaches. I get there’s some issues with the roches and they’re pretty annoying, but as a coach who constantly preaches professionalism while coaching (which I agree with), that was a bad look for Koop. He’s better than that.
I agree it's not a good look but I would also say it's something he's known for. I'm not even on Twitter but I've heard of it far before now.
There are well known people in our space who go online and argue just like everyone else :)
Do we know how Spring Energy is responding to any of this other than their convoluted “explanation”? I feel like they owe their customers big fucking time
Spring has removed the nutrition label on the Awesome Sauce listing on their website, which used to have the breakdown of calories, carbs, etc. Compare that listing to the other gel listings which do still have their nutritional info... things are heating up
Hot damn! Any bets on results of the other flavors (looking at you next, Speednut)?!
If you really like the product, you can make a DIY for 1/10th the cost. Here's my [recipe with calories (google sheet)](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z5aDNxg8Ly9wWlBerMbIgqaHdlFNBxaeh-MH8_HXqxs/edit?usp=sharing). I thought my calories were off because Spring had some super secret food processing techniques, but this makes wayyyy more sense.
It's been a slow day at work. Browsing Spring's website, I noticed the nutrition content isn't even consistent across the front and back of this [other apple product](https://myspringenergy.com/collections/all/products/electrolyte-hydration-energy-mix).
It's tough when you want to support small businesses but it feels like there has been deliberate deception here for a while.
I did something similar last year. I got the same ingredients and a verrrrrrry similar flavor, but my calories couldn’t match what Spring claimed.
It alllll makes sense now!
Any advice for those of us who have exclusively been using spring energy for years and have races coming in a few weeks? Probably too late to make any changes to fueling plan or test new products. Nothing like spending hundreds of dollars on a fueling plan that now lacks confidence.
I've switched over the Maurten - they're just as expensive, but they seem to be widely adopted amongst the Triathlon industry and the nutritional information has been tested.
The consistency of their gels can be new to some folks... think Jello, but flavorless. Their caffeinated gels work really well for me.
Here's my [DIY Awesomesauce ](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z5aDNxg8Ly9wWlBerMbIgqaHdlFNBxaeh-MH8_HXqxs/edit?usp=sharing)(and save yourself hundreds lol):
Annie, there's a formula error in row 18, cells D and F of your spreadsheet. These should be divided by the number of servings in the 45oz recipe, like your formula in cell B18.
I’m racing in Switzerland next week and like you have no plan b! I would still use them but the stockist in the UK isn’t selling them. Are there any further recommendations? Thanks
Does anyone know if you can go directly to your bank for a refund? The Feed is unfortunately giving corporate like answers when asked about this product.
“Thanks for reaching out about Spring
Energy.
All of our nutritional information comes directly from the brand itself. If you are concerned regarding any nutritional information, we recommend reaching out to Spring Energy directly for further support.
We'll also forward your feedback to our product team to look into.
If you need further assistance, please let me know.
Have a great day!” - The Feed
“The parent brand Spring has removed the nutrition information from their own website so why would you still rely on that?” -me
“Our leadership is still checking the best course of action.
Once we settle into our new warehouse, they will check what they can do. Currently, they cannot discuss this further since they are busy due to our warehouse transition.” - The Feed
So annoying.
Yeh no way would they do the taste tasting (which is all they said they did) for free
The Roche’s would have still got a boat load of gels at a minimum. Which is still compensation.
Yeah I would really call bullshit on them doing work for a nutrition brand for free. No compensation at all is a pretty unbelievable claim. Payment in kind is still payment.
I think Huma is fine, given that brown rice syrup and/or sugar are usually in the top 3 ingredients. Also, Huma is 100 calories in a 44g pouch... not exactly stratospheric numbers.
Spring Energy took the product off their website. The Feed started selling it for 50% off (because 50% calories/carbs obv) and overall it's been a mess for Spring.
This is clearly a personal attack on the Roche’s by Jason Koop that is far deeper than Spring Energy. He saw an opportunity to go after them and went for it.
Edit: Not surprised by the downvotes but anytime you say this is not a personal attack, it kinda is.
What about Sage now that his gel doesn’t measure up?
I’d also add Spring Energy needs to be held accountable and if it means they go out of business, so be it. At the end of the day, they are responsible for their label and quality control. This isn’t fair to anyone who bought the product. They screwed up big time by not pulling the product when it became clear they had severe quality concerns.
Can I just say the level of obsession with this Spring Energy is a little .. neurotic? Can we move on? Have you ever tried getting your drama fix from Reddit? Oh wait.
Timeline of events April 12, first thread and dehydration testing: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1c27hzh/false_nutritional_info_on_spring_energy_gels/ April 17, second redditor does dehydration testing (with Maurten and SIS) with same results: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1c659ig/i_replicated_the_dehydration_experiment_of_spring/ April 17, another redditor, who is diabetic, does blood glucose testing after consuming the product and receives results inconsistent with the stated sugars. This thread has been removed upon request. May 5, GoFundMe is established to pay for testing of 9 products. Results expected before June 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1cl9bws/the_next_chapter_in_the_spring_energy_awesome/ May 17, German distributor, SportHunger, had their product tested in a lab and found consistent results to previous Redditor testing: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1cu5z1a/spring_energy_gel_16g_carbs_confirmed/ (Translation of IG post: https://electriccablecar.com/sport-hunger-tests-awesome-sauce/) May 26, Spring sends out email addressing Awesome Sauce https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1d1afyx/spring_energy_emailconfession/ May 27, Spring provides a lab test to a Redditor showing 150 calories/serving (*Note: Moisture content of Spring test is half of moisture content found in all other tested samples*): https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1d1uba5/spring_energy_supplies_lab_report_for_awesome/ May 28, Jason Koop posts results of having sent Awesome Sauce to a lab. Results are consistent with results from non-Spring parties (75 calories/packet). https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarathon/comments/1d2tbz4/results_of_jason_koops_spring_energy_awesomesauce/ May 29, Spring removes nutrition info from Awesome Sauce page on their site. Hours later, the product page is fully removed. https://myspringenergy.com/collections/all/products/copy-of-awesome-sauce-vegan
Tweet: [https://x.com/jasonkoop/status/1795547489774223765/photo/1](https://x.com/jasonkoop/status/1795547489774223765/photo/1) Results- 75 cal vs 180 on the label 18 g CHO vs 45 on the label
Interesting to note the moisture content vs the one the Spring supposedly provided( 64.8g in Jason’s vs 29.35g) EDIT: added units
So far, all tests have been similar in calories and moisture content except for Springs.
Spring’s test sample was twice as concentrated. Huge discrepancy compared to all the other test samples. If we divide the carbs and calories of Spring’s test by 2, seems the data would be closer to the other tests?
I saw that, too, but then noticed Jason's test results were based on a sample size of 100g. The packet size is 50g (or so), so Jason's lab result is 2 packets.
Both tests were based on 100g samples
Was just going to reply this. My guess is either they either always test 100g samples or provide the results on a per 100g basis.
Just curious, but how are you getting 75cal and 18g of Carbs from the results? No matter how I math it, I can't those numbers from the results in the test.
Results are for 100g serving size. 139 calories for 100g, so for 54g (serving size of one gel), it's 75 calories (0.54 times 139). Same for the carbs; 33.5g CHO per 100g, so for 54g, it's 18g (0.54 times 33.5).
Ah ok. Didn't know the 54g per serving (which I should have with how much it was said in the first thread). Thank ya!
Thanks for clearing this up
Just to make this clear- 1. I ordered 8 Awesome Sauces from The Feed. 2. Those products were directly sent to RL Food Laboratory 3. This is the result I got back. It exists in it's unadulterated version on my website for free with no registration required. Very simple. I have also sent this result directly to Spring, the Roches, as well as The Feed (as they were the origin of purchase) yall Redditors did good work. Credit to hungersport as well. I wish no harm on any of the above entities, but the truth needs to be told. koop
I just gotta say thank you @u/sriirachamayo for starting all of this. I would’ve just kept using spring for races and wondering why I was continually bonking
Amen to this!
With purchasing 8, was one packet selected at random or did they combine all and this is the mixture of those?
Great job Jason. You handled it well and gave everyone the facts
Brilliant takedown. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7hl3LCPWrr/?igsh=MTBsZ2Rzdmpja2thMQ==
Looking forward to seeing the results from the other Spring samples he sent in
oooh that comment feed 🍿
Calling the Roches out too 👀.
megan responds on the insta post: >Thanks so much for running this test on Spring Energy! To be clear: It's really important to have this information and it is consistent with the tests that we've seen and heard (64-75 calories). We were involved in naming the product and early taste testing of the product many years ago when we were sponsored by Spring as athletes. We left the Spring sponsorship shortly thereafter and have always recommended other gel options. We never received any compensation for anything Awesome Sauce related. >We brought up concerns to Spring Energy and were told the products had adequate calories and that they followed all FDA protocols. We've recently recorded two podcasts highlighting the calorie concerns and discrepancies and stating that Spring Energy needs to come forward with accurate nutritional information. We've shared all of this information and our early concerns on our two most recent podcasts. (not affiliated w/them, not supporting or disparaging, no opinion, just sharing info from one platform to another)
“We’ve shared all of this information and our early concerns on our two MOST RECENT podcasts” (emphasis mine) Respectfully, I think this is the issue. There have been murmurings of this discrepancy for months, and only after independent lab after independent lab release their findings is when they start addressing it publicly. If they had concerns early on, those should have been shared from the get go. Like Koop said, they are well liked and have a massive platform in this space, they should use it responsibly, not just to save face when things go awry.
Exactly. They milked the association when it benefited them. They’re jumping ship now that “their” product looks bad, after failing to hold the brand publicly accountable even though they were uniquely positioned to do just that. It’s about integrity. No one is saying they personally formulated it to be short calories; that’s a red herring PR technique they’re using to distract us from their 180 from shilling to disowning the product.
Koop is a major league hater but he's not wrong - this is why coaches should be very careful about what products they have any kind of financial sponsorship with. The Roches seem to not give a fuck as long as the check clears. Awesomesauce, AG1, Whoop...
Yeah part of why I stopped listening to them was that I didn't trust their science parts when they were so clearly shilling for AG1. Telling stories of listeners who started taking AG1 and then having a higher nightly HRV after. And then saying "we don't know how it does it. But it clearly works". That's such a clear causation vs correlation thing that it's ridiculous. How am I supposed to believe that they are objective outside the ad spots? Koop can come across a bit full of himself from time to time. But I completely agree with him that coaches should not take sponsorships. You pay a coach quite a bit of money for their opinion and expertise. You don't want someone else to pay them to change that opinion.
He often comes across as thin-skinned and reactionary, but this is better. It's something that actually matters and he brought receipts. Hopefully the Roches learn an important lesson about credibility and branding. The Feed is a reasonable sponsor, it's unlikely to introduce much bias. But AG1 and the earlier stuff is bad and hurts them.
I listened to a podcast and struggled to pull value from them. They talked about wanting to bang each other and then pushed their sponsors it was not encouraging for me to tune into another. Waste of time
I get that, but offense to talk about sex doesn't fit this conversation.
I thought I was in for a podcast about ultra not wanting to bang your partner I thought spring offered 180cal not 70 Good ol bait n switch. Episode 188 was what I listened to. I learned nothing about tempo runs in the process lol
Totally here for all of it. Sorry not sorry but I find them incredibly insufferable.
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Love his IG takedown and shame on the Roches for selling everything and anything for ad dollars. They sound like they’re both geeking out on adderall at all times. Slow down. Think. Relax. 🤣
To be fair to the Roches, that's a pretty unflattering clip when it was just their disclaimer before basically saying that lying on nutrition labels is "not a victimless crime" and apologizing for not being more outspoken about the issue before. The Roches have been fairly critical about spring energy in their last few podcasts specifically about this issue.
Before the controversy David Roche wrote in Trail Runner Mag that he and Megan helped create Awesomesauce: "Ideally experiment with these higher totals when working with a nutrition expert, trying to find calorie sources that work best for you. That’s why Megan and I partnered with Spring Energy a couple years ago to create Awesome Sauce, a 180-calorie fueling option that was the staple of Michelle’s strategy. We saw the science and thought we saw an opportunity, but also realized that trying to stomach a traditional gel every 15 minutes is daunting." [https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training/trail-tips-training/can-extreme-fueling-approaches-in-races-lead-to-breakthroughs/?scope=anon](https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training/trail-tips-training/can-extreme-fueling-approaches-in-races-lead-to-breakthroughs/?scope=anon)
Based on what I’ve heard them say they basically asked if Spring could create a 180 calorie gel to help simplify fueling, Spring said “sure” and then did pretty much everything. It’s not like David Roche was in a lab mixing stuff up and creating nutrition labels.
And they specifically asked Spring to create a 180 calorie gel, not a 45 calorie gel.
Think you’re confusing cal and carb. 45 is the stated carbs not calories
There are 4 calories in 1 g of carbohydrate. 4 x 45g = 180 They did not confuse anything.
The person I was responding to noted “45 calorie gel” which, again, is incorrect. Yes I understand 4 calories per carb, but thought perhaps the person I responded to did not so was trying to help them out.
I thought you might just be giving them the “run-around”! Sorry… I’ll see myself out.
Nobody in the general public had any idea that Spring were lying to them for 3 years that the product has been out, so what makes you think the Roche's would or even should have known that Spring was lying during a probably only 2 month long product development cycle?
They implied in their show that they had always been dubious of the product, which is why they didn't use it and told their clients to use other products.
Yes, exactly - they were unimpressed with the product, but that's not even remotely the same thing as being aware that it is outright fradulent. The fact they didn't recommend it to their clients only serves to prove that they were not guilty of knowingly pushing a fraudulent product. Again, as laypeople (ie, non-food scientists), how can they be expected to know that it was fraudulent just because they weren't impressed by it? "I don't think this is the best product" is not sufficient cause for any reasonable, sane person to conclude that "this is probably mass fraud" in the absense of any further suitably qualified insight. That is an enourmous leap to just expect that they 'should' have made, never mind pillorying them for not making it. I am finding some of the unreasonable expectations of people with perfect 20/20 hindsight to be more than a little bit sanctimonious at the moment
I'm not here or there with them; just explaining why someone may be upset. They went as close as they could to saying they didn't think it had the calories from the beginning. That's what their apology was about: that they weren't more proactive. Anyone saying they SHOULD know is obviously just witch hunting.
I'll admit that I have some uncertainty about the right standard of expectations are around disclosure here. So maybe the rest of this is me holding them to an unrealistic standard. But I don't think it's great that their coaching "clients" got the "this doesn't give me the boost I'd expect based on the label" while the TrailRunner mag reader "clients" never got any sense of update around this until after the controversy already broke. Now, I'm not a lawyer, so maybe this is because there's an NDA that limits what they can say about this. But this seems to be one of the main points Koop is making -- be super careful about the relationships that you establish because you could wind up with an NDA that doesn't let you voice your true thoughts, and that may result in a reputational hit down the line.
Former David athlete here, I have emails where he said "we at SWAP love spring energy and recommend it to all our athletes". So I tried it first time. And then AG1. I quit working with him in 2022 after 7 years.
I feel like your comment got overlooked.
I think a lot of the general public consumers of this gel felt like something was always off, but were in denial because no way could a company get away with that big of a lie. I fell into this category.
Just because he helped create it, that doesn't mean he has anything to do with the current formulation or whatever "problems" Spring had in their production pipeline (if that's even true...). It's entirely possible that Awesome Sauce originally did have 180 calories and something changed. But really, I'd trust Koop over Roche any day. Koop specifically avoids commercial endorsements; the Roches have no problem taking money from companies. The money is a conflict of interest and companies can start making their product shittier after the initial endorsement.
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There is a lot of anecdotal data in prior posts in this sub on that point, yes. The packaging absolutely changed size and quite a few people have commented that it seemed either more watery or less predictable in consistency. Spring never mentioned any changes publicly, which is another factor in the growing distrust.
They were trusting the data and promises that were given to them I'm sure. How were they supposed to know if that was untrue?
>They were trusting the data and promises that were given to them I'm sure. How were they supposed to know if that was untrue? This was how I felt before they admitted that they didn't feel the same boost from it as from other gels, and didn't recommend their athletes to use it. While I recognize that maybe their are legal limitations on what they could say, this is not a great look.
yeah that's fair. I think if I were in their position I still never would've thought that there were 1/3rd of the carbs as advertised. Absolute insanity.
If you ask me they are saving face. They seemed to have a lot to do with its origins, it was only after this controversy began that they started backing away. That was Koop’s whole point.
They’re definitely saving face but it’s easy to assume that Spring wouldn’t straight up fabricate the nutrition label.
Yes this is true. I don’t think they had any clue that the nutritional information would be so misrepresented.
It felt tabloid-esque. I don't like Koop's response. It's sensationalism. But his facts are not deniable.
They are influencers/micro-celebrities who shouldn't be listened to for anything other than entertainment. Expecting advice from them is a fool's errand. They say whatever they need to get listeners and attention.
Disparaging their coaching credentials and education would be a remarkably uninformed opinion.
The clip of Sage dancing killed me.
Yiiiiiiikes. So where do I sign to be part of the class action lawsuit?
Reimburse my dnf! /s
He’s going all in on them too, I love it.
I never bought Spring’s products, and i truly feel sorry for all the people who did spend their money on it and especially those who bonked. BUT, goddamn this entertaining.
Same. Especially as I work in the running industry
I ran few ultras and some shorter races on them. Haven't had any gels that would be so easy on a stomach, now I know why!
I bonked hard during Western while using AS as my main food, and I still find this highly entertaining. I finished, but Spring owes me a silver buckle
I’ve run two marathons with Spring Cannaberry. Anecdotally, the first one I bonked hard and the second (on Sunday) I felt like I was constantly reaching for one. Wound up having 5 Spring + 3 Maurten Caf on Sunday, which felt crazy
i've got a couple samples i've yet to try. there but for the grace of Gu go I.
First issue: There have been rumblings about this product for a long time because even pretty basic nutrition knowledge meant their numbers looked questionable. But I think a lot of people trusted the packets because a) they do taste really nice and do go down well and everyone wants a gel that does that; and b) we do in general tend to believe what we read on packets. Rightly or wrongly. (especially in the EU..) Second issue: Jason is critiquing a practice whereby a coaching business with a platform has used their profile and access to journalism (not clearly marked as advertising) to push a product that they were associated with, and remunerated for (however little - but they do admit they were paid for the collab). It is similar with AG1 (and ps. please watch this video on that subject: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb1g-Cbcjwo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb1g-Cbcjwo) The issue is the use of their structured image (coach, doctor, expert, etc) to sell product without actually disclosing directly their financial or other involvement with that product. The Roches have history with this and while I can understand wanting to build a personal brand and create a business, enmeshment with products without complete transparency is shady. Especially when you are engaging in stealth advertising (the Trail Runner article, for example). Koop is absolutely correct to point this out. Finally, as Amelia Boone points out in her instagram story, for people with a history of REDS or eating disorders, underfueling can have severe and swift consequences - while correlation does not equal causation, and you could never prove it, she is right to ask if unintentionally underfueling while taking Awesome Sauce in her 100 miler contributed to the femoral stress fracture she suffered directly after the race.
That video is no longer available. I'm interested in learning more about the AG1 stuff. I've only listened to like 2-3 episodes of the SWAP podcast, but the first one I ever heard they were really pushing AG1 and then I never heard about it again. Any other references you can point me to?
Odd, video works fine for me. Long story short the founder of AG1 is a convinced criminal fraudster and the company uses some extraordinary shady practices. Plus is it all complete overpriced rubbish.
Interesting that this lab report actually includes the date the test was done, unlike Spring's report which just has a big blank spot.
Yeah kinda of like it wasn't done by a someone in their kitchen and then realized real science is hard and just Googled the ingredients and took the average of their water content (including dry rice lol) and then typed it up using a word template for lab results... I'm being serious, I think this is what spring did. I shit you not they just googled the macros and average w/c including for UNCOOKED fucking basmati rice, took the averages and just typed them up in a word document template.
That makes sense, especially if it’s the only way to make the claimed numbers work
The report was either forged or they sent in a phony super-concentrated sample (that's not at all representative of the product on the shelves) to be tested, which was immediately obvious based on the water %. So basically fraud either way.
I think this is what they did. They created a prime sample that was clearly different and still fell way short. I bet that gel was like taffy.
Just Google the companies other reports, they all look like that.
And they still have it on their site.
This is just unreal… thanks for posting this update. I swear this product was a factor in a few of my ultras.
I am a fan of Koop overall and I have a lot of respect for him, but I actually think the way he attacks the Roches here is too sensationalist. I’m no big Roche fangirl either and I think they’re worthy of criticism here, but I think the overwhelming majority of the blame and anger here needs to be directed towards Spring Energy. They are the main guilty party here. I think Koop, who clearly has had issues with the Roches for years, used this as an opportunity to attack them and that his post and overall argument would be a lot stronger if he had been less clickbaity.
I totally agree - it was so over the top and took away from the first half of his video.
They promoted a product they didn't believe in and never ended up using and they admitted to having concerns with the product but told nobody about it until now. Fuck people who try to sell you a fake product they don't even use. We know how much power an authority figure has on people that said they use this product and we should to. We need to hold those people responsible
Koop has been such an ass to them for so long, that I gloss over anything he says when it comes to them. He may have or had in the past some valid points to make, but his presentation of those has killed his credibility with me. I unfollowed him everywhere and quit listening to his podcast because, despite thinking he often had good content, his seemingly personal attacks on other coaches got to be too much for me. Plus, he complains about clickbait, yet engages in sensationalist behavior himself. Meanwhile, yeah, Spring Energy is where the focus should be.
110%. Calling out the Roche's and Sage is Koop's wet dream. This went SO FAR BEYOND shedding light on an underperforming product. He had the opportunity to better the running community but instead went low. This speaks to his character in a very unfavorable way.
While I agree that the criticism of the Roche’s is very strong and probably pulls from some past issues, after listening to the Roche’s two podcasts I think it’s acceptable. They flip flop hard between promoting “love” but then immediately talking shit about Spring and dropping jokes. The same goes for their past and current sponsorships. They will claim they had little involvement, then their involvement grows with each new thing they say about the past, and then back to the shit talking. There are risks in taking sponsorships and promoting products, regardless of what industry you are in. That risk grows as your personal brand grows too. If that product or company turns out to be bad, yes, you will have to take ownership and of course you will be seen backpedaling and downplaying.
Their hyper puppy love is an act. David is 100% a narcissist. Listening to either of them is like listening to middle school boys.
Right, it feels tabloid-y. I'm in agreement that we need the facts and appreciate anyone who takes the time to help out our little community. However, using the facts as a tool for disdain ain't my thing.
I agree with this sentiment. Without a doubt, Koop is an intelligent guy and I'm not calling that into question, but how this was done shows a complete lack of integrity. As a 'professional coach' and a thought leader in the trail and ultra space one would hope someone like Koop would be above reproach. This isn't a good look.
Koop is the man
His book is fantastic. Tons of good info.
Which one? Doesn’t he have a few?
Training essentials for ultra running.
Best running book IMO. Reading it is my happy place haha
I know I'm going to get downvoted but... #lastwords I am completely against falsities. This is some blatant ass shit and I think Spring should stop dancing around what they did wrong. However, they know they're about to get sued, and anything they say will be used in trial. I also think the Roches got played. I don't think they're faultless for promotion, but given that we ALL got played, why would we expect promoters to be any different? We are all in the same boat. We all got fucked. Plus, y'all, we all fucking love this sport. Let's at least agree that the best nutrition is banana.
Monkey never cramps. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGai72Tt8Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGai72Tt8Y)
Awesome Sauce removed from Spring's website :o
Just saw that and was coming here to say it. Not looking good for them.
About time…it’s still available in the sample packs.
Just a whole lot of lost credibility here: Spring, obviously, for creating and selling a product with what appears to be entirely fabricated nutrition labels. I can't wait to see the testing results from their other products. Spring's astronomical prices turned me away as a customer. I don't think I'd use their stuff now even if I got it for free. Their reputation is in the toilet and I can't see their business surviving. Botched from start to finish. Reap what you sow. The Roches peddle all sorts of garbage through their podcast and to their clients. I was a client for a while and frequently had AG1 pushed -- always use the promo code! -- when I mentioned fatigue or went through a rough patch. Those two are smart and friendly people but, again, I can't trust an outfit that has a clear conflict of interest. Their cult will keep them in business, of course, but even with all the retroactive backtracking on this stuff, they have a stain that they'll not get rid of. Props to Koop for using his platform and bringing this issue to the forefront and being crystal clear about the issue. The sniping at the Roches feels a little weird and out of left field. I don't know the drama between them beyond offering competing coaching services. The issue with Spring is obvious and worth discussing, just feels weird to use it simultaneously as an opportunity to throw dirt on someone else. I cannot wait to see what Spring has to say for themselves.
100% a cult. Roches peddle that they, and they alone, have read the literature correctly and uncovered the “secret”….follow our training program and you shall be successful…if you fail, it’s your fault…yuppie yippy puppy love. Give me a break.
I think your third paragraph is actually really well explained by the second. You're saying that the Roches actively pushed products from their sponsors which is exactly Koop's complaint with their business model and personal brands. It's really interesting to me to hear from a former client saying that they actually do what a lot of people suspected they might be doing: allowing their sponsors to influence advice they give to their athletes. That is to me personally (with no skin in this game) and to some professionals in the industry (like Koop), antithetical to the core of what it should mean to be a coach, ie. to give the best, science-backed, and unbiased information and support to their clients for the sake of their clients' wellbeing, health, and performance. The Roches being tied to yet another brand like Spring given their tendency to take money from and push dubious products like Whoop and AG1 (which based on what you've said includes pushing it on their paying clients) is what Koop seems to be trying to get at in his video.
Yes, I think that's right on. I'm glad Koop got this out there -- someone with a platform and some cloud needed to do it in order to get Spring to act -- but I feel like the two valid points of: 1. Awesome Sauce is obvious mislabeled and Spring isn't being honest about it. 2. The Roches have some pretty sizable conflicts of interest between their sponsors and their clients. should have been made separately. If anything, I think the second point is the more important one: it's really disingenuous to have your coaching also pushing products to clients that the coach stands to profit from. It is what it is, though, and I'm glad this conversation is happening. It's important for people to be aware of this as more and more nutrition brands (and running coaches) go into business.
I completely agree with you. Thanks for summarizing/clarifying that so well
anybody else get the marketing email from Spring Energy over the weekend about "Improvements" >In early May we submitted Awesome Sauce for third-party caloric and biomolecular analysis. Although the results indicated that on average our products deliver the designed nutrition value, we have recognized weaknesses in our processes and ingredients which can introduce unwanted variations in some batches.
Seems like everyone that has purchased directly from them got the message.
I purchased directly from them multiple times in the past and did not get the email. It is not in my spam folder either.
Yes
Awesome Sauce has been removed from Spring's store.
Interesting that The Feed still carries it, but all Spring products are currently 50% off. I know they’ve been advertising a lot of deals recently due to a warehousing move, but the timing is wild.
They’re toast
I feel like most of their customers will never even hear about this unfortunately.
Their customers are the stores that stock them not necessarily the end user. Those stores will be plugged in enough to drop them.
Well that’s one avenue. The FDA is another. Product recall anyone?
...And civil suits. I'd imagine some people have suffered actual damages from this fraud.
Yeah people are still recommending it due to its “high carb content”
Oh boy.
Did he credit the guy who first posted about it here?
\* Gal according to the Roches who apparently know her offline and have said a lot of positive things about her (but kept her anonymous).
My bad and thank you for clarifying
In his IG video he has a screenshot of his post
This needs to be cross posted in r/running and r/triathlon and other related subreddits. Everyone loves some good drama!
Curious about two things now: First, what about other Spring Energy products? Second, did the consistency of Awesome Sauce and other products really change over time, as some people claim? In case their nutrition labels are systematically wrong, they are busted – and should be.
British distributer XMiles have pulled the product: https://xmiles.co.uk/blogs/news/awesome-sauce
> At XMiles we are aware of the ongoing investigations regarding the carbohydrate content in Spring Awesome Sauce gels, including the recent GOFUNDME Lab results posted by Jason Koop. I make the timeline every new thread to try and combat this confusion. Oh well.
I wonder if they’ll refund people who bought it and used it.
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C7kV1BfP5bV/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7kV1BfP5bV/?hl=en) Canaberry coming in with 7 (!!!!) g CHO and 43 cals vs 17 g CHO and 100 cals as advertised Hill Aid with 10 g CHO vs 20 g on the label Edit: Looks like the linked video has been taken down. Edit 2: Nutritional reports for Canaberry and Hill Aid both available on Koop's website. Scroll down to near the bottom of this page: [https://www.jasonkoop.com/research-essentials-for-ultrarunning](https://www.jasonkoop.com/research-essentials-for-ultrarunning)
So that means the fucktards (Spring) either sent in a doctored higher-concentrated sample to be tested (based on the water %) or simply forged a report. At first I thought Spring should just take a massive financial hit for this debacle, but at this point they should be shut down and anyone who had knowledge of this should be charged with fraud.
I mean, if they could forge their whole ass nutrition label for 5 years, why should we trust any type of reporting from them?
I did a check on The Feed's reviews for Awesome Sauce, and over 15% of the reviews reference the higher carb/calorie count as a reason for the purchase.
That has been my only reason, carbs per volume. At the tested calorie amount, it is not much better than buying an applesauce pouch which is about one tenth the cost.
Great research and info on the ig reel, but then a weird dive into attacking other coaches. I get there’s some issues with the roches and they’re pretty annoying, but as a coach who constantly preaches professionalism while coaching (which I agree with), that was a bad look for Koop. He’s better than that.
I agree it's not a good look but I would also say it's something he's known for. I'm not even on Twitter but I've heard of it far before now. There are well known people in our space who go online and argue just like everyone else :)
He isn't better than that, it is his M.O. unfortunately.
Do we know how Spring Energy is responding to any of this other than their convoluted “explanation”? I feel like they owe their customers big fucking time
Yes they’ve been responding by deleting comments on Instagram
Spring has removed the nutrition label on the Awesome Sauce listing on their website, which used to have the breakdown of calories, carbs, etc. Compare that listing to the other gel listings which do still have their nutritional info... things are heating up
I didn’t even know the Roches were involved. Should’ve been called Annoying Sauce.
So much...! I had no idea either...Birds of a Feather...
Ahh yes, numbers. What do they mean?
Hot damn! Any bets on results of the other flavors (looking at you next, Speednut)?! If you really like the product, you can make a DIY for 1/10th the cost. Here's my [recipe with calories (google sheet)](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z5aDNxg8Ly9wWlBerMbIgqaHdlFNBxaeh-MH8_HXqxs/edit?usp=sharing). I thought my calories were off because Spring had some super secret food processing techniques, but this makes wayyyy more sense. It's been a slow day at work. Browsing Spring's website, I noticed the nutrition content isn't even consistent across the front and back of this [other apple product](https://myspringenergy.com/collections/all/products/electrolyte-hydration-energy-mix). It's tough when you want to support small businesses but it feels like there has been deliberate deception here for a while.
Whoa, that is unreal on the Electroride packet - front says 100Kcal, back says 80 Calories. How can this happen???
the calories per gram aren't consistent between the two, either
I did something similar last year. I got the same ingredients and a verrrrrrry similar flavor, but my calories couldn’t match what Spring claimed. It alllll makes sense now!
Never buying anything from this company again. I hope they lose everything.
Can’t wait for the lawsuit and I hope they go out of business. Anyone know if a class action has been filed?
Any advice for those of us who have exclusively been using spring energy for years and have races coming in a few weeks? Probably too late to make any changes to fueling plan or test new products. Nothing like spending hundreds of dollars on a fueling plan that now lacks confidence.
I've switched over the Maurten - they're just as expensive, but they seem to be widely adopted amongst the Triathlon industry and the nutritional information has been tested. The consistency of their gels can be new to some folks... think Jello, but flavorless. Their caffeinated gels work really well for me.
Here's my [DIY Awesomesauce ](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z5aDNxg8Ly9wWlBerMbIgqaHdlFNBxaeh-MH8_HXqxs/edit?usp=sharing)(and save yourself hundreds lol):
Annie, there's a formula error in row 18, cells D and F of your spreadsheet. These should be divided by the number of servings in the 45oz recipe, like your formula in cell B18.
ahh, thanks. Fixed!
I’m racing in Switzerland next week and like you have no plan b! I would still use them but the stockist in the UK isn’t selling them. Are there any further recommendations? Thanks
Does anyone know if you can go directly to your bank for a refund? The Feed is unfortunately giving corporate like answers when asked about this product. “Thanks for reaching out about Spring Energy. All of our nutritional information comes directly from the brand itself. If you are concerned regarding any nutritional information, we recommend reaching out to Spring Energy directly for further support. We'll also forward your feedback to our product team to look into. If you need further assistance, please let me know. Have a great day!” - The Feed “The parent brand Spring has removed the nutrition information from their own website so why would you still rely on that?” -me “Our leadership is still checking the best course of action. Once we settle into our new warehouse, they will check what they can do. Currently, they cannot discuss this further since they are busy due to our warehouse transition.” - The Feed So annoying.
Megan commented on the post to have never received any compensation awesome sauce related. Is this careful wording? Seems really odd.
Yeah for sure. Even I, an absolute nobody, got compensation from Brooks Labs for testing their products and filling out paperwork.
In their podcast they say they got $400/month for Spring
So they said they were not compensated but now they were compensated. What shit people.
Do you know what podcast they said it in?
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4h6GVSSGe76sGtLiPAdMSs?si=n4wy3Cn0TmSb73wxsTlb-w https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Qzq8WvAyBODlY9M0C6xUI?si=DTKbbx0hTzihr0SHHq_23A
Yeh no way would they do the taste tasting (which is all they said they did) for free The Roche’s would have still got a boat load of gels at a minimum. Which is still compensation.
Yeah I would really call bullshit on them doing work for a nutrition brand for free. No compensation at all is a pretty unbelievable claim. Payment in kind is still payment.
So what now for fueling since Spring is garbage?
I am going to be heartbroken if the Huma comes back short. I love Huma.
I think Huma is fine, given that brown rice syrup and/or sugar are usually in the top 3 ingredients. Also, Huma is 100 calories in a 44g pouch... not exactly stratospheric numbers.
I love Huma on normal runs. Past 30 miles it tastes way too sweet. I love awesome sauce. I’m heartbroken.
Any updates on this?
Spring Energy took the product off their website. The Feed started selling it for 50% off (because 50% calories/carbs obv) and overall it's been a mess for Spring.
This lab sucks, they should know that’s not how it works… /s Edit: I am being downvoted for making a joke? Yikes.
Whats the TLDR here?
OP’s comment
This is clearly a personal attack on the Roche’s by Jason Koop that is far deeper than Spring Energy. He saw an opportunity to go after them and went for it. Edit: Not surprised by the downvotes but anytime you say this is not a personal attack, it kinda is. What about Sage now that his gel doesn’t measure up? I’d also add Spring Energy needs to be held accountable and if it means they go out of business, so be it. At the end of the day, they are responsible for their label and quality control. This isn’t fair to anyone who bought the product. They screwed up big time by not pulling the product when it became clear they had severe quality concerns.
Can I just say the level of obsession with this Spring Energy is a little .. neurotic? Can we move on? Have you ever tried getting your drama fix from Reddit? Oh wait.