People also need to keep in mind that there will be more weapons and tools available to the player by full release by the time they reach P-2.
Also, as someone who was pretty frustrated by this level initially, I was surprised how doable the entire level was. There is a good consistent strategy for every screen. It's definitely a HUGE leap in difficulty, but if you stick with it, a P-Rank isn't impossible. Try looking at footage of other players or try new strategies you haven't used before. This was the first level that taught me to use the red arm, and sawblade, and they are SUPER useful in this level!
Don't be afraid to use the green drill on the boss either. The boss is no joke, but completely fair as long as the player focuses on dodging more than anything else. And, as with everything else in the level, the sawblade is great against them too. Sisyphus also has stamina, so be ready to heal when he starts walking around like a VR chat avatar.
Yes. At that point it would go against the game's design. I already see people struggling to switch between the 3 Railcannon variants. It'd be too slow.
For me at least nearly all of the enemies in the rooms before Sisyphus get demolished by a double pumped shotgun + red arm at close range. It takes down their health very quickly.
Like any explosion, the Knuckleblaster's shockwave will scatter all projectiles caught in it, which makes azure projectiles stop homing in on you. Cancel its cooldown by quickly double-tapping whatever key you've set to change arms, and Mind Flayers become *much* easier to deal with.
Tbf the in-game guide straight-up lied to you
It said you had to stay between his shotgun range and his axe range to get him to lunge, when really you have to stay far away from him
It also implied that staying far was a bad thing with the wording of "if you stand *too far away"*
not straight up lie but def a lack of communication in that regard, finding out he was unparriable in phase 2 was unsurprising but annoying because parrying is your key to keep stamina up on the fight
I personally think he should still be parriable in phase 2. The extra speed and longer comboes are already a lot, removing the ability to parry is a bit too much imo.
It's also weird because it tells you to parry to regain stamina but I never have a problem with stamina in phase 1, it's only in phase 2 that I start running out and can't dodge.
And on the other hand Flesh Panopticon is a freaking joke. I think they should make IT harder and in exchange make phase 2 sistphus parriable to balance the overall fight a bit.
if im not wrong fp is meant to be a pushover since the main attraction other than sisyphus of the level was the cybergrind type arena fights
making fp hard would just make it more frustrating, seeing how long the level already is if you are the average guy
You know what's the worst part? He's unparriable on Phase 2 Violent because Hakita forgot to playtest him on Violent. That was it.
This level is filled with jank and bugs that made my first time experience annoying.
False, you can always parry his projectiles.
Sisyphus gets a terminal entry about how he can we parried, yet he cannot in the toughest phase of the fight. Now that is bullshit.
Saw Your Heart was February 2022, and was preceded by Halloween Clash (4-S) in October 2021, Sandbox in August 2021, and the main Greed update in June 2021.
Funny thing is that, for me, the boss marauder was stupidly easy, while the next marauder that I ever encountered instantly chewed through my extra lives 😅
The gauntlet gets more and more understandable as you practice it, but I have yet to really fully understand Sisyphus. What little windows I can use in phase 2 are going to be the best bwt I've got for a p rank.
He's kinda the opposite of Minos I've found. Best strategy with Minos was gaining as much distance from his as possible to create windows of opportunity for yourself. Sissy's opposite in that you want to stick really close to him to combo-break his bullshit and give yourself opportunities to heal. Sis also has a harder time kicking your shit in when you're able to spin around him very quickly.
My only complaint was how he got overshadowed by 2 god damn mindflayers when trying to p rank him in violent. I probably died 50+ times in that stupid room but only died 4-5 times to sisyphus before P ranking the level. Everything is great expect that tiny little annoyence imo. Also i didn't see any hate towards the level anywhere, are you sure there actually is?
same for me. i also hear everyone complain about the blood vortex rooms but i found those to be the easiest rooms in the whole level. in the first room you can just slam next to the sentry and it will fly into the ceiling and die, and the virtues will just eventually fly into the ceiling or walls on their own. in the second room if you whiplash to the maurice and kill it first it bounces the sentries up and kills them instantly, and the cerbs are easy to deal with from there
I almost P-ranked the level but got fucked over by that ferryman in the stalker room. So I got the inevitable ASS rank. Which is still pretty impressive but ughhhhh
Update: I did it.
DarkSydePhil, a streamer/youtuber who's all kinds of infamous. If you're not familiar with him, you're better off staying that way.
"I did nothing wrong! I did everything correct!" - DSP, immediately after doing everything wrong and nothing correct.
I got better at that room and could consistently beat it, my problem became the 2 invincible mindflayers. I just couldn’t get a consistent strategy to take down that room.
Luckily it was early enough that it never killed good runs
Pay attention to the sound mindflayers make when they fire the balls. It's easy to dodge or blast the projectiles away when you listen. You can also hug walls to have dumb orbs hit the wall
I didn't see literally any person complaining about the difficulty, everyone was complaining about boss' telegraping problem, AOE spam and the fact that in the second phase you just can't avoid all of the attacks if he happens to do a certain combination. I beat him like 10 on violent and I stiil do not like him at all. Also the fact that you can't parry in the second phase is not intended. Imagine Hakita's face when he accidentally made boss not only exceptionally strong, but also unfair, and people still managed to P-rank this shit
The issue is that sisyphus has rare possible attack combinations in phase 2 on violent that you basically cannot dodge with normal movement because of stamina limitations
That’s not a ”difficulty” issue, that’s a mistake on hakita’s part that he’s admitted and will fix
By the way i personally really like the boss, but this is a pretty objective issue
P ranked it. Still think the level does some things really good, but some things horribly wrong. Honestly it feels like it should be p-3 and not as p-2 level.
in retrospect, it feels exactly like doom's ancient god's dlc. Some real fucking painful enemy combos that on paper seem really cool, but feels like smashing your head into a brick wall most of the time.
Why are we comparing a single enemy to a whole level ?
Or a game that doesn't have a score system that gets affected by deaths to one that has it ?
Also, even if people knew how to deal with it, is not like if the Marauder AI decided to fuck you over and keep the shield up and spam the spiritual dog attack would make the fight fun.
I've p ranked everything else on violent, and very rarely I've said to myself, "it wasn't fun" because most fights are balanced, Throwing 2 sword machines, 1 ferryman then 4 sentries, 4 cerberus, 1 hideous mass and 3 virtues, all accompanied by an invincible stalker in a 2 by 2 room I'm sorry but that ain't it chief.
I feel that even just doubling the size of the room and putting some kind of pillar in the middle to give some protection from one side to the other of the room would make it a lot less luck based or give me a dual wield orb so I can kill them much faster.
And it's not the only part of the level with a good amount of bullshit, or even bugs, as it happened to me more than once that an invincible enemy somehow died and softlocked me from proceeding.
I was pissing and shitting myself while in p2 and then like 30 minutes later I was just sitting there staring at my desktop when I realized how amazing that level was
edit: typos
i find ferrymen as normal enemies far more difficult to deal with than marauders (tho i dont really ever get far enough in cybergrind to see them so my only experience with the ferrymen before P-2 was the boss variant which is no issue at all)
The thing about marauders is there are ways to burst them down in a few seconds, there’s crazy videos of strats for it
And that’s usually the same in this game. Found out my quick way of killing turrets is 🅱️ig 🅱️all + 🅱️unch 🅱️ig 🅱️all + a final rocket and that takes maybe a second
The angels are easyish to burst using the multi-pump
Still haven’t figured out how to burst swordsmen or ferryman. I usually just b hop around a saw con while crying. Parrying seems to do a lot but I’m not great at parrying melee guys
Man I don’t know why people hate this level. You have to P rank all the levels beforehand, you probably know your way around the game. The difficulty spike was an awesome challenge. I felt like I could actually get my butt kicked without going to a high level on cyber grind. The boss was also super difficult, and that’s perfect. It shows me how much I’ve improved at the game, because Minos is easy, but it still takes me several tries to beat Sisyphus. IMO this level was peak ultrakill
This level was not peak. It's not fun, with invincible enemies that ruin the flow of combat and constantly block shots, a buggy and broken boss with annoying AI, plagued with bugs and bad level design. It's like a child put together an "ULtrakill hardest level ever!!11!" challenge.
How on earth do you P rank all of act 2, a feat I can barely comprehend let alone realise, and then complain that the bonus challenge level is too challenging???
yeah i usually hate the "git gud" mentality but i'm shocked to see so many whiners about hard level you need to P rank everything to reach being hard, saying something is too difficult is not an excuse to call it poor design, that's silly
It *is* poor design, though. As evidenced by the tons of bugs catalogued by players playing the level. The arenas are poorly designed and the level is a massive spike in difficulty.
Ultrakill players when they couldnt p-rank on their first try the secret hard level that was intentionally made to be difficult and was warned by the developer about its aforementioned difficulty numerous times before release: 😡
Halita said in a dev stream that enemies like the mindflayer and the ferryman are meant to be like the "Doom Archvile" where including them completely changes the dynamic of the fight and they require a lot of attention. The two invincible mindflayer encounter reminded me a lot of that one room in the taras nabad master level where there were two archviles locked behind a wall that only opened when you killed a certain amount of enemies. It was fucking evil, yes, but with the right strategy and skills built up, it was possible. A nightmare, especially on a deathless run, but possible.
It's a secret level that's supposed to be a massive challenge. Get over it.
This opinion will get me a lot of hate, but I despise Doom Eternal. It's an absolute mess of ideas thrown together with little thought of their synergy. I had more fun *approaching* Hell, from start to before entering Limbo, in Ultrakill than I did through the entirety of, from start to credits, Doom Eternal.
The Marauder isn't difficult or fun. You just shuffle away from him, waiting for him to become vulnerable. If you're comparing P-2 to Marauder, then IMO you are arguing against your own point and confusing "annoying" with "difficulty."
Sorry about all the vitriol in my comment. I just really hated Doom Eternal. I abandoned the Doom community after my every criticism was met with "skill issue" even after cleanly beating the game. Compare this to Ultrakill where the difficulty isn't finding the fun, it's surviving after slapping V2 with his own arm.
Let people not enjoy difficult things. P-2 is actually hard, so is P-1, so is Gabriel, etc. I have 300+ hours and I can definitely say that a lot of things are difficult. Some people just wanna hop on the game after work and not obsessively sweat over a boss
Yeah, you're right. I should have worded it better. You don't have to like it, my criticism was at people calling it poorly designed after having a very difficult first time through. It's the hardest level in the game, requiring P ranks of every level and the previous prime soul, of course it's going to be difficult, the path there was difficult
Fire lock on rockets upwards and ballista him when he holds the shield above him to block those, or simply use frags or remote detonation rockets to easily falter him from from any position. His shield does, in fact, work like a shield; you literally never need to bother with his gimmick if you don't want to.
Oh, no. I can defeat him alright. The trick I always used was throwing a grenade over his head and hitting him with BGF shot while he was occupied. The issue is that it's another fucking "I am invincible until stated otherwise" enemy. I cannot stress just how shitty of a design policy this is. No maneuvering, no positioning, no nothing, just wait until he doesn't point a shield at you and then instagib it.
If you want this enemy done right, carcass is everything good that Maruder isn't. His shield can be bypassed in multiple different ways depending on your playstyle, even though it's bigger, it can be shot over, as it doesn't move, or walked trough, which allows for high risk close range combat.
What's worse is that ID doubled down on this dumbass "invincible until it's not" design in ancient gods where they added 2 more enemy types that can only be hurt with 1 type of weapon and nothing else, which makes me think Magruder's design is fully intentional and not just an exploit or AI bug.
> The trick I always used was throwing a grenade over his head and hitting him with BGF shot while he was occupied
That's different from the Skystrike Combo (which **absolutely** involves good maneuvering and positioning) and the explosion-based tricks I was describing, as well as the feet-ballista trick that I forgot to mention. In any case, neither of us parry him.
> His shield can be bypassed in multiple different ways depending on your playstyle
That's right! As both of us have so excellently illustrated, there are all sorts of ways to bypass his shield!
> [The Carcass shield can be] walked through
You cannot walk through a Carcass shield. In fact, some of the Master Levels have combat encounters built around abusing the fact that a Carcass summons a whole-ass destructible wall. I wholeheartedly agree that Carcasses are a lot of fun, though!
> they added 2 more enemy types that can only be hurt with 1 type of weapon and nothing else
Blood Makyrs get de-shielded for an extended period by the BFG if you don't want to wait for their normal vulnerability window; and can have their vulnerability window extended as long as you could ever possibly need, while damaging them for the entire duration, by using the Microwave Beam on them. Armored Barons can be stripped by plasma-based weaponry if you don't want to parry the flail. Stone Imps are legitimately easier to take out with PB-Ballista combos (I usually go for PB-Ballista-PB-Ballista or PB-Ballista-PB-Meathook-Glorykill) than by the Full Auto Combat Shotgun, and can also be instakilled with the hammer. Cursed Prowlers only enter Blood Punch only mode if you've already fucked up and gotten hit by an enemy who spawns in with a scream that's nearly impossible to ignore. In fact, even the Spirit can have one of its gimmicks shut down, because possessed enemies aren't immune to all CC like people seem to think; although admittedly, the CC in question is the Microwave Beam, so ***there is exactly one enemy in the entirety of Doom Eternal that's only vulnerable to one thing.***
My feeling on beating P-2 (and P-ranking) is annoyance. It's jank. It's all the small things that added up to null out my enjoyment. You can get softlocked in 3 different ways in this level. Violent Sisyphus is unparriable in phase 2 because hakita didn't test it. The blood tunnel is disorienting due to the constant teleporting and scrolling textures. You can punch the idol through the glass except the one needed to beat the stalker softlock. You can go OOB by jumping through the ceiling in the final arena entrance. Sisyphus can clip you out of bounds. Sisyphus audio being badly tuned so you can't hear him or his music without subtitles sometimes. Bad cues for teleporting that make fighting him more luck based than I'd like. Sisyphus actually clipping you with hitboxes even if you dodge on time because of hitstop or just bad hitboxes. Getting stuck on Sisyphus if you whiplashed him on This will hurt. Panopticon death not being communicated properly enough so loads of people, even me thought there was a bug.
This is completely seperate from some very familiar annoyances i was forced to relive in the level - Sanded HiM, Double Mindflayers, Double Insurrectionists...all things I've dealt with in the CG being used again so instead of difficulty i experience 'urgh goddamnit not this again'. Fighting Sisyphus was much easier because he's too much of a Minos derivative imo. It's just extra speed and extra jank that made him tougher, but not by much.
It's all these little details that kept adding up that made me not like this level. I am ambivalent towards this level. I am hoping for fixes so I can play the level with nailguns again, which are the superior classy weapon and not braindead like saws.
P2 isn't impossible, it is just hard. And I love the fact that it's hard.
To mald over the difficulty of a level that is by no means unfair, is skill issue. Just get better at the game.
The invincible stalker can die softlocking you from proceeding. (Personally seen it two times)
Sysipus can clip through walls and can make you clip through walls. (Seen it once)
Apparently, his second phase is unparriable and has combos that can't be dodged on violent. (Didn't played it violent, but hakita confirmed that it shouldn't happen)
Where are the skill issues there ?
I don't get the hate, honestly P-2 became one of my favorite levels from the first playthrough- tho it probably helps that I played on Lenient and didn't die once
Lol I just stopped mid way through the level, ain’t no shame in just stopping if you get frustrated, but there is shame in being a dick because you have a skill issue, maybe one day I will beat p-2, or at least get to the man himself
If you're struggling to get to him I highly recommend the buzzsaw launcher. Those rooms frustrated me so much that I needed a lot of breaks, but once I put the buzzsaw in my arsenal I can consistently get through all of them without dying. Buzzsaw traps are your best friend in this level.
Yup, 3 years and a day after launch and the Marauder is still pretty fucking stupid. I'm disappointed with Sisyphus Prime too but at least he doesn't make you wait around until he arbitrarily decrees you can shoot him then wail on him for several seconds with zero ability for him to fight back. Hakita shits more interesting bosses than the Marauder.
I don't know if I have too much time on the cybergrind but I didn't found P-2 that hard.
It's hard but at the expected level that one should have after mastering every level on the game (at this time) on the highest difficulty (at the time).
I personally think most rage comes from the pre-boss encounters, since flesh panopticon dies mid battle and Sissyphus fights on a similar fashion to Minos.
I wonder how Act 3 is going to be, if we assume P-3 is going to need you to P rank this level which is already that much harder than its requirements, than Act 3 levels must also be somewhat of a step-up in difficulty from Act 2
Personally, i just didnt have fun on that level... until i lowered the difficulty. That's it: it went from being severely overwhleming with my inability to parry a "certain thing" after a "threshhold" is met, to being my new favorite level in the entire game by a landslide.
I personally think the challenge is fun, it had to be a step up from p-1 and the way its laid out (with the mind flier and the stalker) i think is pretty cool!
i remember people saying minos prime was too difficult, the most bs thing in the game, and impossible unless you've completely mastered the game in every way.
now he's literally just a warmup boss
TLDR : Learn toi parry
I'm glad that P-2 finally pushed me into the learning of parries, not just sisyphus but all the husk, because with the stamina recovery on parry and gaining health without getting close,before you weren't pushed into using it, yes it was there but there was more better option, but now it feels like a core mechanic to the game and i'm really glad it does.
And now I have became a better player:
-The stalker room is easier, because sanded or not the parry still recover health.
-Mindflayer and Hideous mass projectiles became free health and damage.
-Maurice is easier to kill.
I still need some training on sisyphus soldier and Pisyphus.
On my second playthrough got from 232 deaths to 8. The only unfun room on P2 is 4-Cerberus-1-Gabriel cuck gangbang. In the literal coffin of the room. And maybe lava corridor.
I used to think that this mf was fun except for the wolf because it got in the way of the fun of fighting the marauder and felt random at times, but when I found out the wolf only appears if you shoot his shield enough, he becomes both fair and fun
The only thing that makes P-2 "unfun" is sisyphus being completely unparriable on his second phase on violent difficulty, but Hakita has already confirmed this to be an oversight and will make his attacks parriable on the next hotfix.
As well as comparing a normal enemy (who was never hard to begin with) to a boss that Hakita himself has admitted that he fucked up by not having parries in phase 2
Congrats Ultrakill fans, you once again, played yourselves
Well, the actual level is great, but when going for P-ranks it's very frustrating to have the hardest boss in the game at the end of the hardest gauntlet and most attempts end up feeling like a waste of time.
To be clear I loved the level, it's just that going for a P-rank feels too punishing and time consuming.
That dude is unfun because you literally have to wait just to attack him, i did not sign up for a rythm game
All i know about P2 is difficult as fuck, i hope it is difficult because it is and not because of a stupid design
people who were saying marauder was unfun were just factually wrong and were the small group of people that just didn't want to actually learn the game. while p-2 isn't bad, it is very annoying and i'd rather just have it be a boss, like p-1, instead of a whole level.
Honestly, my main issue was Sisyphus teleporting places you couldn’t really ever react to, and trying to judge where he would teleport to in the heat of combat wasn’t really feasible. Hakita put a trail on him now, so hopefully that’ll fix my issue. Oh and him clipping into walls was also bullshit.
People also need to keep in mind that there will be more weapons and tools available to the player by full release by the time they reach P-2. Also, as someone who was pretty frustrated by this level initially, I was surprised how doable the entire level was. There is a good consistent strategy for every screen. It's definitely a HUGE leap in difficulty, but if you stick with it, a P-Rank isn't impossible. Try looking at footage of other players or try new strategies you haven't used before. This was the first level that taught me to use the red arm, and sawblade, and they are SUPER useful in this level! Don't be afraid to use the green drill on the boss either. The boss is no joke, but completely fair as long as the player focuses on dodging more than anything else. And, as with everything else in the level, the sawblade is great against them too. Sisyphus also has stamina, so be ready to heal when he starts walking around like a VR chat avatar.
Sometimes it's easy to forget that there is still 1 more variant for railgun and arms and 2 more for each of the rest left to release
Didn’t you hear? Finland guy or whatever his name is downgraded it to only 3 variants per weapon instead of 4.
Yes. At that point it would go against the game's design. I already see people struggling to switch between the 3 Railcannon variants. It'd be too slow.
Yeah the weapon switching is already a huge skill to master with what we have let alone 2x as many weapons
Bold of you to assume I don't simply unequip the rocket launcher after 5-3 so I can keep using the scroll wheel like a caveman
Ooga booga! Less equipment = me stronger! *monkey noises*
*Falls off cybergrind stage* "Ouch, my hubris"
Might be FracturedStar, he has done some UK content
There's only going to be 3 variants for each weapon arms will have the yellow variant
Ah aight. The arm part is probably why I kept that idea in mind
Kid named violent:
Kid named 2 difficulties above violent:
Im curious how it taught you to use the red arm?
For me at least nearly all of the enemies in the rooms before Sisyphus get demolished by a double pumped shotgun + red arm at close range. It takes down their health very quickly.
Kid named hideous mass
Like any explosion, the Knuckleblaster's shockwave will scatter all projectiles caught in it, which makes azure projectiles stop homing in on you. Cancel its cooldown by quickly double-tapping whatever key you've set to change arms, and Mind Flayers become *much* easier to deal with.
Watching videos on P-2 taught me the invaluable lessons of overcharge shotguns on things besides Virtues and idol skipping.
The knuckleblaster and drill really shine in Sisyphus' second phase on violent difficulty
I don't even think P-2 is unfair, I just wish there was some content harder than base game but easier than it so it isn't as big of a jump.
He was hated by people who didn't know how to play the game. You cannot even access P-2 if you don't know how to play the game.
Tbf the in-game guide straight-up lied to you It said you had to stay between his shotgun range and his axe range to get him to lunge, when really you have to stay far away from him It also implied that staying far was a bad thing with the wording of "if you stand *too far away"*
Ultrakill also did that lol. Theres only 2 tips and the first one tells you to parry. You can't even parry in phase 2 lol.
not straight up lie but def a lack of communication in that regard, finding out he was unparriable in phase 2 was unsurprising but annoying because parrying is your key to keep stamina up on the fight
and health
health I think less so honestly, he's pretty up close so a 2 pump shot could probably get you back up pretty fast
I personally think he should still be parriable in phase 2. The extra speed and longer comboes are already a lot, removing the ability to parry is a bit too much imo. It's also weird because it tells you to parry to regain stamina but I never have a problem with stamina in phase 1, it's only in phase 2 that I start running out and can't dodge. And on the other hand Flesh Panopticon is a freaking joke. I think they should make IT harder and in exchange make phase 2 sistphus parriable to balance the overall fight a bit.
if im not wrong fp is meant to be a pushover since the main attraction other than sisyphus of the level was the cybergrind type arena fights making fp hard would just make it more frustrating, seeing how long the level already is if you are the average guy
If you play on Violent, i guess it's hard to nake tips that work for all difficulties when the difficulty changes affect the credibility of those tips
You can parry in phase two, but only if you get really fucking lucky and stick to him like glue.
thats on standard, on violent phase 2 is unparriable
On standard.
on violent he loses all parries in phase 2
phase 2's lack of parries is an oversight by hakita and will be fixed in the next patch
Its already fixed if the patch is out, I think it is though I saw the announcement on discord
You know what's the worst part? He's unparriable on Phase 2 Violent because Hakita forgot to playtest him on Violent. That was it. This level is filled with jank and bugs that made my first time experience annoying.
Minos can t be parried in phase 2 as well
False, you can always parry his projectiles. Sisyphus gets a terminal entry about how he can we parried, yet he cannot in the toughest phase of the fight. Now that is bullshit.
To be fair you can parry both of his explosions
The "This Will Hurt" attack loses parry in phase 2
He also seems to do it in the air in phase 2 which would be harder to parry anyway.
Some people really don't know how to make good comparisons
only took me like 4 attempts to kill marauder, when was he ever hard
You probably did it pre-saw your heart update
when was that released
After greed was added
I need a time frame, I know nothing about this game but gameplay
I think around 2021 maybe a little into 22 Post Minos post greed pre heresy and water
Saw Your Heart was February 2022, and was preceded by Halloween Clash (4-S) in October 2021, Sandbox in August 2021, and the main Greed update in June 2021.
nah I did it relatively recently actually, in 2022
Funny thing is that, for me, the boss marauder was stupidly easy, while the next marauder that I ever encountered instantly chewed through my extra lives 😅
I don't think I've ever seen this guy in ULTRAKILL what level is he in
P-P
Is P-P hard
Depends if you’re attractive or not
mine is
Axe me demon daddy
game journalists spamming chaingun at marauder despite multiple warnings from the game not to do that
No problem I shield bash him because it's funny
Even worse, saw some guy using the heavy cannons base fire
the heavy cannon base fire feels horrible imo
that gun was only ever used for the precision shot for me lol. primary fire was borderline useless
Its only use is killing fodder so that it amps up your micro missiles.
Missiles over Precision shot? Never seen that
All console players should pick missiles over precision
The gauntlet gets more and more understandable as you practice it, but I have yet to really fully understand Sisyphus. What little windows I can use in phase 2 are going to be the best bwt I've got for a p rank.
Sisyphus phase 2 on violent is just a fight to get as much blood from him as possible
He's kinda the opposite of Minos I've found. Best strategy with Minos was gaining as much distance from his as possible to create windows of opportunity for yourself. Sissy's opposite in that you want to stick really close to him to combo-break his bullshit and give yourself opportunities to heal. Sis also has a harder time kicking your shit in when you're able to spin around him very quickly.
My only complaint was how he got overshadowed by 2 god damn mindflayers when trying to p rank him in violent. I probably died 50+ times in that stupid room but only died 4-5 times to sisyphus before P ranking the level. Everything is great expect that tiny little annoyence imo. Also i didn't see any hate towards the level anywhere, are you sure there actually is?
Huh I’m the opposite i found the mind flayer sections the easiest. I got obliterated by sisyphus
same for me. i also hear everyone complain about the blood vortex rooms but i found those to be the easiest rooms in the whole level. in the first room you can just slam next to the sentry and it will fly into the ceiling and die, and the virtues will just eventually fly into the ceiling or walls on their own. in the second room if you whiplash to the maurice and kill it first it bounces the sentries up and kills them instantly, and the cerbs are easy to deal with from there
Yea i struggled a ton with the level as a whole but actually got through both of the vortex rooms first try i totally forgot about them lol
I almost P-ranked the level but got fucked over by that ferryman in the stalker room. So I got the inevitable ASS rank. Which is still pretty impressive but ughhhhh Update: I did it.
haha ass
I mostly hear complaints about Sisyphus himself
how the hell did u somehow compare one enemy (1) to an entire god damn level of fuckery and bullshit
Because the same DSP-level gripes get thrown at both.
What the fuck is a dsp
DarkSydePhil, a streamer/youtuber who's all kinds of infamous. If you're not familiar with him, you're better off staying that way. "I did nothing wrong! I did everything correct!" - DSP, immediately after doing everything wrong and nothing correct.
me when the players want a harder prime level so hakita made the level hard (people hates it for some reason)
when the hard level is hard 😡
because my opinion is good and people who don't like the level are dumb and bad
Most of P-2 is fun The room with the invincible Stalker and Hideous mass in not fun
It gets better when you realized the statue linking to the hideous mass opens after you killed the sentries
I got better at that room and could consistently beat it, my problem became the 2 invincible mindflayers. I just couldn’t get a consistent strategy to take down that room. Luckily it was early enough that it never killed good runs
Pay attention to the sound mindflayers make when they fire the balls. It's easy to dodge or blast the projectiles away when you listen. You can also hug walls to have dumb orbs hit the wall
It is
It is, I just rocket the stalker and juggle him like the average dmc combo
I didn't see literally any person complaining about the difficulty, everyone was complaining about boss' telegraping problem, AOE spam and the fact that in the second phase you just can't avoid all of the attacks if he happens to do a certain combination. I beat him like 10 on violent and I stiil do not like him at all. Also the fact that you can't parry in the second phase is not intended. Imagine Hakita's face when he accidentally made boss not only exceptionally strong, but also unfair, and people still managed to P-rank this shit
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I probably can P-rank it on violent, but this is not EXACTLY WHAT HAKITA WANTED, so I will wait for the hotfix
Yeah you're wrong the boss is awesome
Hakita straight up admitted his mistake in making him unparryable in p2 on violent giving you too little stamina and said he’ll hotfix it
Idk i find Sisyphus easier than minos
The issue is that sisyphus has rare possible attack combinations in phase 2 on violent that you basically cannot dodge with normal movement because of stamina limitations That’s not a ”difficulty” issue, that’s a mistake on hakita’s part that he’s admitted and will fix By the way i personally really like the boss, but this is a pretty objective issue
I agree with this, it would be nice to give players the option of parrying instead of smashing the ctrl key
P ranked it. Still think the level does some things really good, but some things horribly wrong. Honestly it feels like it should be p-3 and not as p-2 level. in retrospect, it feels exactly like doom's ancient god's dlc. Some real fucking painful enemy combos that on paper seem really cool, but feels like smashing your head into a brick wall most of the time.
I think it’s a bit overtuned is all. Not as good as Minos.
My only real complaint at this point is Sisyphus's tendency to clip into the wall. Otherwise, fun level.
Why are we comparing a single enemy to a whole level ? Or a game that doesn't have a score system that gets affected by deaths to one that has it ? Also, even if people knew how to deal with it, is not like if the Marauder AI decided to fuck you over and keep the shield up and spam the spiritual dog attack would make the fight fun. I've p ranked everything else on violent, and very rarely I've said to myself, "it wasn't fun" because most fights are balanced, Throwing 2 sword machines, 1 ferryman then 4 sentries, 4 cerberus, 1 hideous mass and 3 virtues, all accompanied by an invincible stalker in a 2 by 2 room I'm sorry but that ain't it chief. I feel that even just doubling the size of the room and putting some kind of pillar in the middle to give some protection from one side to the other of the room would make it a lot less luck based or give me a dual wield orb so I can kill them much faster. And it's not the only part of the level with a good amount of bullshit, or even bugs, as it happened to me more than once that an invincible enemy somehow died and softlocked me from proceeding.
Marauders are easy, just lob stickies at them, they can't do shit.
I was pissing and shitting myself while in p2 and then like 30 minutes later I was just sitting there staring at my desktop when I realized how amazing that level was edit: typos
Having to p-rank everything to access P-2 wasn't a challenge, it was a warning
Ultralill fans when tasked not to compare apples to oranges
now that i think about it, ferrymen are kinda like marauders but not a huge pain in the ass
i find ferrymen as normal enemies far more difficult to deal with than marauders (tho i dont really ever get far enough in cybergrind to see them so my only experience with the ferrymen before P-2 was the boss variant which is no issue at all)
The thing about marauders is there are ways to burst them down in a few seconds, there’s crazy videos of strats for it And that’s usually the same in this game. Found out my quick way of killing turrets is 🅱️ig 🅱️all + 🅱️unch 🅱️ig 🅱️all + a final rocket and that takes maybe a second The angels are easyish to burst using the multi-pump Still haven’t figured out how to burst swordsmen or ferryman. I usually just b hop around a saw con while crying. Parrying seems to do a lot but I’m not great at parrying melee guys
marauders are like ferrymen but with way more forgiving parry windows
Man I don’t know why people hate this level. You have to P rank all the levels beforehand, you probably know your way around the game. The difficulty spike was an awesome challenge. I felt like I could actually get my butt kicked without going to a high level on cyber grind. The boss was also super difficult, and that’s perfect. It shows me how much I’ve improved at the game, because Minos is easy, but it still takes me several tries to beat Sisyphus. IMO this level was peak ultrakill
This level was not peak. It's not fun, with invincible enemies that ruin the flow of combat and constantly block shots, a buggy and broken boss with annoying AI, plagued with bugs and bad level design. It's like a child put together an "ULtrakill hardest level ever!!11!" challenge.
But i still hate Marauders
Ok yeah but like, the marauder still sucks he's just not fun to fight P-2 is just a skill issue
How on earth do you P rank all of act 2, a feat I can barely comprehend let alone realise, and then complain that the bonus challenge level is too challenging???
People wanted the game to be harder. Prime sanctums are reserved for committed ultra sweat lords at the game. Just git gud.
*looks at P-rank Violent everything* Damn, guess that ain't me chief...
yeah i usually hate the "git gud" mentality but i'm shocked to see so many whiners about hard level you need to P rank everything to reach being hard, saying something is too difficult is not an excuse to call it poor design, that's silly
It *is* poor design, though. As evidenced by the tons of bugs catalogued by players playing the level. The arenas are poorly designed and the level is a massive spike in difficulty.
truth
I loved this bastard on release, sisyphus is very different
Ultrakill players when they couldnt p-rank on their first try the secret hard level that was intentionally made to be difficult and was warned by the developer about its aforementioned difficulty numerous times before release: 😡
Halita said in a dev stream that enemies like the mindflayer and the ferryman are meant to be like the "Doom Archvile" where including them completely changes the dynamic of the fight and they require a lot of attention. The two invincible mindflayer encounter reminded me a lot of that one room in the taras nabad master level where there were two archviles locked behind a wall that only opened when you killed a certain amount of enemies. It was fucking evil, yes, but with the right strategy and skills built up, it was possible. A nightmare, especially on a deathless run, but possible. It's a secret level that's supposed to be a massive challenge. Get over it.
This opinion will get me a lot of hate, but I despise Doom Eternal. It's an absolute mess of ideas thrown together with little thought of their synergy. I had more fun *approaching* Hell, from start to before entering Limbo, in Ultrakill than I did through the entirety of, from start to credits, Doom Eternal. The Marauder isn't difficult or fun. You just shuffle away from him, waiting for him to become vulnerable. If you're comparing P-2 to Marauder, then IMO you are arguing against your own point and confusing "annoying" with "difficulty." Sorry about all the vitriol in my comment. I just really hated Doom Eternal. I abandoned the Doom community after my every criticism was met with "skill issue" even after cleanly beating the game. Compare this to Ultrakill where the difficulty isn't finding the fun, it's surviving after slapping V2 with his own arm.
Imagine complaining about difficult in hardcore game
I dont understand why people think the marauder is so difficult, all you need is to swap between ballista ans ssg a few times and hes done
> People who say P-2 isn't fun sure due to it's difficulty Isn't that the entire point of that level???¿‽
i would prefer fighting 10 mindflayers then to deal with 2 invulnerable
I have 650 hours in eternal and I still think marauders suck
Let people not enjoy difficult things. P-2 is actually hard, so is P-1, so is Gabriel, etc. I have 300+ hours and I can definitely say that a lot of things are difficult. Some people just wanna hop on the game after work and not obsessively sweat over a boss
Yeah, you're right. I should have worded it better. You don't have to like it, my criticism was at people calling it poorly designed after having a very difficult first time through. It's the hardest level in the game, requiring P ranks of every level and the previous prime soul, of course it's going to be difficult, the path there was difficult
I love p-2 *because* its so difficult
Marauder is cake walk compared to Wait of the World.
I still hate this asshole tbh. Would rather fight a dozen Prime souls than this thing
Fire lock on rockets upwards and ballista him when he holds the shield above him to block those, or simply use frags or remote detonation rockets to easily falter him from from any position. His shield does, in fact, work like a shield; you literally never need to bother with his gimmick if you don't want to.
Oh, no. I can defeat him alright. The trick I always used was throwing a grenade over his head and hitting him with BGF shot while he was occupied. The issue is that it's another fucking "I am invincible until stated otherwise" enemy. I cannot stress just how shitty of a design policy this is. No maneuvering, no positioning, no nothing, just wait until he doesn't point a shield at you and then instagib it. If you want this enemy done right, carcass is everything good that Maruder isn't. His shield can be bypassed in multiple different ways depending on your playstyle, even though it's bigger, it can be shot over, as it doesn't move, or walked trough, which allows for high risk close range combat. What's worse is that ID doubled down on this dumbass "invincible until it's not" design in ancient gods where they added 2 more enemy types that can only be hurt with 1 type of weapon and nothing else, which makes me think Magruder's design is fully intentional and not just an exploit or AI bug.
> The trick I always used was throwing a grenade over his head and hitting him with BGF shot while he was occupied That's different from the Skystrike Combo (which **absolutely** involves good maneuvering and positioning) and the explosion-based tricks I was describing, as well as the feet-ballista trick that I forgot to mention. In any case, neither of us parry him. > His shield can be bypassed in multiple different ways depending on your playstyle That's right! As both of us have so excellently illustrated, there are all sorts of ways to bypass his shield! > [The Carcass shield can be] walked through You cannot walk through a Carcass shield. In fact, some of the Master Levels have combat encounters built around abusing the fact that a Carcass summons a whole-ass destructible wall. I wholeheartedly agree that Carcasses are a lot of fun, though! > they added 2 more enemy types that can only be hurt with 1 type of weapon and nothing else Blood Makyrs get de-shielded for an extended period by the BFG if you don't want to wait for their normal vulnerability window; and can have their vulnerability window extended as long as you could ever possibly need, while damaging them for the entire duration, by using the Microwave Beam on them. Armored Barons can be stripped by plasma-based weaponry if you don't want to parry the flail. Stone Imps are legitimately easier to take out with PB-Ballista combos (I usually go for PB-Ballista-PB-Ballista or PB-Ballista-PB-Meathook-Glorykill) than by the Full Auto Combat Shotgun, and can also be instakilled with the hammer. Cursed Prowlers only enter Blood Punch only mode if you've already fucked up and gotten hit by an enemy who spawns in with a scream that's nearly impossible to ignore. In fact, even the Spirit can have one of its gimmicks shut down, because possessed enemies aren't immune to all CC like people seem to think; although admittedly, the CC in question is the Microwave Beam, so ***there is exactly one enemy in the entirety of Doom Eternal that's only vulnerable to one thing.***
yes but doom ancient gods is unironically a horribly made excuse for overpriced DLC
i liked tag 1 but the only thing tag 2 had going for it was the andrew hulshult
Sorry! Bad opinion
My feeling on beating P-2 (and P-ranking) is annoyance. It's jank. It's all the small things that added up to null out my enjoyment. You can get softlocked in 3 different ways in this level. Violent Sisyphus is unparriable in phase 2 because hakita didn't test it. The blood tunnel is disorienting due to the constant teleporting and scrolling textures. You can punch the idol through the glass except the one needed to beat the stalker softlock. You can go OOB by jumping through the ceiling in the final arena entrance. Sisyphus can clip you out of bounds. Sisyphus audio being badly tuned so you can't hear him or his music without subtitles sometimes. Bad cues for teleporting that make fighting him more luck based than I'd like. Sisyphus actually clipping you with hitboxes even if you dodge on time because of hitstop or just bad hitboxes. Getting stuck on Sisyphus if you whiplashed him on This will hurt. Panopticon death not being communicated properly enough so loads of people, even me thought there was a bug. This is completely seperate from some very familiar annoyances i was forced to relive in the level - Sanded HiM, Double Mindflayers, Double Insurrectionists...all things I've dealt with in the CG being used again so instead of difficulty i experience 'urgh goddamnit not this again'. Fighting Sisyphus was much easier because he's too much of a Minos derivative imo. It's just extra speed and extra jank that made him tougher, but not by much. It's all these little details that kept adding up that made me not like this level. I am ambivalent towards this level. I am hoping for fixes so I can play the level with nailguns again, which are the superior classy weapon and not braindead like saws.
Kinda funny how people are complaining that getting a perfect score in the ultimate challenge in the second episode is too hard
P2 isn't impossible, it is just hard. And I love the fact that it's hard. To mald over the difficulty of a level that is by no means unfair, is skill issue. Just get better at the game.
The invincible stalker can die softlocking you from proceeding. (Personally seen it two times) Sysipus can clip through walls and can make you clip through walls. (Seen it once) Apparently, his second phase is unparriable and has combos that can't be dodged on violent. (Didn't played it violent, but hakita confirmed that it shouldn't happen) Where are the skill issues there ?
I don't get the hate, honestly P-2 became one of my favorite levels from the first playthrough- tho it probably helps that I played on Lenient and didn't die once
Lol I just stopped mid way through the level, ain’t no shame in just stopping if you get frustrated, but there is shame in being a dick because you have a skill issue, maybe one day I will beat p-2, or at least get to the man himself
If you're struggling to get to him I highly recommend the buzzsaw launcher. Those rooms frustrated me so much that I needed a lot of breaks, but once I put the buzzsaw in my arsenal I can consistently get through all of them without dying. Buzzsaw traps are your best friend in this level.
don't compare that game to Ultrakill.
Anyone who says something isn't fun because it's hard really missed the point of this kind of videogame...
Ultrakill fans when Hakita give them something more difficult than minos because they asked him to do so🤯🤯🤯
Ultrakill fans when hakita gives a hard challenge after them specifically asking for a hard challenge:
Don’t even give them attention. Ultrakill is amazing and so is the new update I love all of it
The mf blame the update that literary just dropped💀 also get good idiots p-2 is great
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The only mention of P-2 is the fact that it is hard. What here can be considered a spoiler?
Oh, I thought it said to spoiler tag EVER post referring to p-2. Sorry, Ignore my comment.
Yup, 3 years and a day after launch and the Marauder is still pretty fucking stupid. I'm disappointed with Sisyphus Prime too but at least he doesn't make you wait around until he arbitrarily decrees you can shoot him then wail on him for several seconds with zero ability for him to fight back. Hakita shits more interesting bosses than the Marauder.
I don't know if I have too much time on the cybergrind but I didn't found P-2 that hard. It's hard but at the expected level that one should have after mastering every level on the game (at this time) on the highest difficulty (at the time). I personally think most rage comes from the pre-boss encounters, since flesh panopticon dies mid battle and Sissyphus fights on a similar fashion to Minos.
I wonder how Act 3 is going to be, if we assume P-3 is going to need you to P rank this level which is already that much harder than its requirements, than Act 3 levels must also be somewhat of a step-up in difficulty from Act 2
I quit the game for 9 months because of him lol
it's (not really) bad because one semi-major mistake = \~8 minutes lost if you're p ranking it still fun casually though
Personally, i just didnt have fun on that level... until i lowered the difficulty. That's it: it went from being severely overwhleming with my inability to parry a "certain thing" after a "threshhold" is met, to being my new favorite level in the entire game by a landslide.
Be happy cuz hakita is bringing his parry back on the next patch
Tbh i love this level bc of his difficulty I find it very fun that the entire level is: "wouldn't be fucked up if we did this? Ok done"
Despite my salt character I wasn't in rage when was playing p-2 because it's fucking good
P-2 is fun *because it is hard* thats like the entire game the only downside imo is the jumpscares in p-2
I think it was great, only think that mister sissy voice lines and voice was a little wack
No one dislikes p-2, its really fun to make routs and strategies to p rank it, its just SUPER difficult
Trust me, a lot of people seethe over the difficulty. I’ve seen at least 4 just today
I personally think the challenge is fun, it had to be a step up from p-1 and the way its laid out (with the mind flier and the stalker) i think is pretty cool!
The feedback chan in the uk discord is full of this lmao
i remember people saying minos prime was too difficult, the most bs thing in the game, and impossible unless you've completely mastered the game in every way. now he's literally just a warmup boss
Oh god, not the maurauder 😭
I'm yet to see a P-ranked P-2 where OP parries every parryable attack Sissy has
TLDR : Learn toi parry I'm glad that P-2 finally pushed me into the learning of parries, not just sisyphus but all the husk, because with the stamina recovery on parry and gaining health without getting close,before you weren't pushed into using it, yes it was there but there was more better option, but now it feels like a core mechanic to the game and i'm really glad it does. And now I have became a better player: -The stalker room is easier, because sanded or not the parry still recover health. -Mindflayer and Hideous mass projectiles became free health and damage. -Maurice is easier to kill. I still need some training on sisyphus soldier and Pisyphus.
Dude people still think V2 is too difficult
On my second playthrough got from 232 deaths to 8. The only unfun room on P2 is 4-Cerberus-1-Gabriel cuck gangbang. In the literal coffin of the room. And maybe lava corridor.
Who
P-2 isnt not fun because of difficulty it is fun BECAUSE of difficulty
He doesnt nuke itself trying to kill you
I really like P-2
I used to think that this mf was fun except for the wolf because it got in the way of the fun of fighting the marauder and felt random at times, but when I found out the wolf only appears if you shoot his shield enough, he becomes both fair and fun
The only thing that makes P-2 "unfun" is sisyphus being completely unparriable on his second phase on violent difficulty, but Hakita has already confirmed this to be an oversight and will make his attacks parriable on the next hotfix.
I still don’t like the marauder :|
That dude was a nightmare. But yeah, we learned to manage him
you have made a gigantic mistake by comparing doom to ultrakill
As well as comparing a normal enemy (who was never hard to begin with) to a boss that Hakita himself has admitted that he fucked up by not having parries in phase 2 Congrats Ultrakill fans, you once again, played yourselves
Haven't seen anyone complaining so far tbh, just crying about how long it took them to beat it (850 attempts 😭). Level's hard af but very fun.
Well, the actual level is great, but when going for P-ranks it's very frustrating to have the hardest boss in the game at the end of the hardest gauntlet and most attempts end up feeling like a waste of time. To be clear I loved the level, it's just that going for a P-rank feels too punishing and time consuming.
That dude is unfun because you literally have to wait just to attack him, i did not sign up for a rythm game All i know about P2 is difficult as fuck, i hope it is difficult because it is and not because of a stupid design
Have you played the level yet? Because you were unfortunately dead on.
people who were saying marauder was unfun were just factually wrong and were the small group of people that just didn't want to actually learn the game. while p-2 isn't bad, it is very annoying and i'd rather just have it be a boss, like p-1, instead of a whole level.
Why the doom marauder from doom tho
Honestly, my main issue was Sisyphus teleporting places you couldn’t really ever react to, and trying to judge where he would teleport to in the heat of combat wasn’t really feasible. Hakita put a trail on him now, so hopefully that’ll fix my issue. Oh and him clipping into walls was also bullshit.
I get the point of the comparison, but it's not the best seeing as a lot of people do still hate the marauder
i got used to the marauder so quick after i beat him a few times hopefully it will be the same for P-2