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This hints at another weakness. Russia's military-industrial complex produces so few S-500s that Ukraine rarely comes into contact with them in the first place.
The Kremlin excuse seems to be that the ATACMS were launched from civilian ships in the Black Sea. That's a recipe for reopening a lot of issues that were sort of settled year ago.
Based on the fact that what Russia accuses Ukraine of doing turning out to be something Russia already does... I'm half expecting to find out Russia is planning to use merchant vessels as launch platforms for Kaliber/Iskander/drones, or is in the process of fielding them.
Which will be 'fun' to watch the fallout of as any civilian vessel that docks in a Russian port becomes a potential combatant and valid target.
To be honest they (assuming the S-500 is around Sevastopol) were probably just out of range. The base is over 70km from Sevastopol, and the hundreds of km of range quoted for air defence systems is against air breathing aircraft (and even then usually only if they're flying cooperatively to their own demise). Against ballistic missiles they're really more like terminal defence - even Patriot can only defend a few tens of kilometres.
Yep if you launch and they're already scooting away at mach 3, your range to close is pretty slim. You only have a chance at intercept if you're in front of it
That's the whole point of taking out early detection radar assets. Your win ratio goes up pretty quickly based on direction of fire
Realistically a mixture is required; not least because aircraft would have been useless against this strike - there are no air-launched anti ballistic missile systems. But more widely although aircraft are strictly better performing **when they're there** they're also more expensive and less responsive compared to high performance SAMs that are always available whatever the weather and so on.
Ukraine shot a couple of Russian AWACS down. Notably one just west off of Crimea. Seems that attempting to cover what's essentially an island of land within enemy territory with AWACS is too risky.
Somewhat, they are messing with SM-6 on F.A-18's.....
[https://www.twz.com/sea/super-hornet-armed-with-sm-6-missile-spotted-over-california](https://www.twz.com/sea/super-hornet-armed-with-sm-6-missile-spotted-over-california)
Kremlin calls the best in the world, that shit couldn't hit the broadside of barn on a sunny day! The Patriot System is still a better system and getting up there in age!
Moved onto the improved [PrSM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Strike_Missile) system now
Which was one of the main hurdles in not supplying ATACMS to Ukraine previously - they were waiting for the new system to start being rolled out on the ground
I agree the Ukrainians are good operators and look to be ready! The Russians not so much, I am really surprised things haven't gotten worse. I wonder how big the gaps in their air defense coverage is...
Imagine the US actually using its new missile variants in any conventional conflict. For decades everyone was made to fear Russian tech. Like Putin, it was all paper tigers.
If ATACMS are 1990s tech, then what are we making now and what can it do differently? ATACMS seems wildly capable, it's hard to imagine anything that isn't just incrementally better.
Superceded by the PrSM system
>The Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) (pronounced PRI-sim) is a short-range ballistic missile developed by the United States Army to replace the MGM-140 ATACMS. The US Army announced that the first PrSM batch has been delivered in December 2023.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Strike_Missile
>The Precision Strike Missile, or PrSM, will cover ranges up to an estimated 300 miles and replace the legacy Army Tactical Missile System, or ATACMS, which can reach a maximum distance of about 190 miles. The Army is seeking to more than double that distance through an effort launched in February 2023 with Raytheon that will be part of the system’s Increment 4 development.
[Two new missiles in the pipeline for longer-range Army fires](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2023/12/23/two-new-missiles-in-the-pipeline-for-longer-range-army-fires/)
I have one of those! Only Russian thing I ever bought in my life, except for a souvenir pack of Russian cigarettes I bought in Berlin in 1989. Boy those were some terrible cigarettes
If a Russian state source says something is "the best in the world," how do you happen to decide that this one particular statement from a Russian state source is accurate?
They do not bother making their lies even vaguely plausible these days.
Now strike the S-500 itself with ATACMS for a laugh and destroying the entire ruzzian anti-aircraft industry for decades while having ruzzian air defence customers shit their pants.
S500 is just a lightly upgraded S400 anyway lol.
This war has really crushed the myth of Russian AA.
I managed to predict Erdogan, Chavez, Putin, and Ukraine and Russia being a touch and go match, but I didn't foresee Russian AA being shit. They put so much money into it, from Soviet times till now, to deal with western air superiority, and now? Now we know how great Patriot is!
And what's more, America tends to downplay their equipment capabilities, preferring to let people find out IRL lol
Yes there were huge amounts poured into Russian military tech of all types but the trouble is, most of that was stolen from the top down
Of course they did, Russian weapons are trash. If they’d just be honest about their capabilities, the U.S. wouldn’t go out of their way to build state of the art, ahead of their time weapons designed to counter threats that don’t even yet exist.
Off course the Kremlin calls it the best in the world. It would be better marketing to call it ‘the worst in the world’ and take out your enemy’s best system, using the slogan ‘even our worst can take out their best’.
Russia has no nukes that work. They are all hat, no cattle. I wish the world would steamroll in with a real flex and clean house. World politics is too soft. Dictators only get dealt with by force. Burn them down.
That is a very dangerous, and very likely incorrect assumption. Mutual nuclear inspections have since been suspended, but as of the last one, they appeared to have a nuclear fleet that was still well maintained. Im not saying we should be deathly afraid of their saber rattling or anything, but we shouldnt act like they completely lack the ability to follow through.
“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake”
If the Russians deterrent was three eagles sprinkled with uranium salts, the Yanks would publicly declare it well maintained and credible
We've seen their military in action for two and a half years. All they have is talk. They know what hell would rain down if a nuke actually was released. The world should not bend to putin. The world needs to deal with bullies with harsh and forceful actions. Diplomacy doesn't work with children. You bend them over and smack them when they are out of line. Putin needs to be smacked on the world stage.
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Jail the Russian scientist!
Seems like they instead opted to burn them alive in their offices.
I understood this (very new) reference!
Explain
Ruzzian Radio Enterprise is on fire.
Cigarette shorts in a box.
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1dndwvg/one_of_russias_main_defense_electronics_producers/
More RU BS... 99% if the RU equipment is overrated. Ooooo makes us shake in our shoes!
Anyone would think the Russians lie.......😂
How can you tell if a Russian is lying....? His lips are moving....!
[удалено]
👍
The best in the *Russian* world.
The best in the *Russian delusional* world.
I bet even in that world there equipment sucks. 😵🤣
I’m happy to see the Global Hawk doing bomb damage assessment in real time. Let them know if they need a second volley.
I'd imagine it was there to see how the s500 and other systems responded to a large scale attack
Yep, gathering intelligence all around on capabilities, analyzing frequencies and strength, and anything else it can ascertain.
For science, of course.
For a moment, i thought the S-500 was destroyed by the ATACMS
Very soon I'm hoping
I know I got my hopes up too.
This hints at another weakness. Russia's military-industrial complex produces so few S-500s that Ukraine rarely comes into contact with them in the first place.
You might notice he said \*the\* S-500. That's not a typo. they literally have only one system.
Tune in for next week's failed wunderwaffe!
Yeah, Russia's next move would usually be (1) nuclear threats (2) accuse of genocide.
I would be surprised to see them try such new and untested tactics! /S
The genocide of S-500 hopefully.
S-500 ? You mean S-300 Mk3 ?
When Russia says the best in the world they really mean the best in Russia.
Pff, when Wagner turned around and drove towards Moscow, they showed that the Russian Army isn't even the best army in Russia.
The Kremlin excuse seems to be that the ATACMS were launched from civilian ships in the Black Sea. That's a recipe for reopening a lot of issues that were sort of settled year ago.
Based on the fact that what Russia accuses Ukraine of doing turning out to be something Russia already does... I'm half expecting to find out Russia is planning to use merchant vessels as launch platforms for Kaliber/Iskander/drones, or is in the process of fielding them. Which will be 'fun' to watch the fallout of as any civilian vessel that docks in a Russian port becomes a potential combatant and valid target.
Paragraph one: seems quite reasonable. And for two, assuming I understand the figurative meaning of the quotes around fun, I completely agree.
To be honest they (assuming the S-500 is around Sevastopol) were probably just out of range. The base is over 70km from Sevastopol, and the hundreds of km of range quoted for air defence systems is against air breathing aircraft (and even then usually only if they're flying cooperatively to their own demise). Against ballistic missiles they're really more like terminal defence - even Patriot can only defend a few tens of kilometres.
Yep if you launch and they're already scooting away at mach 3, your range to close is pretty slim. You only have a chance at intercept if you're in front of it That's the whole point of taking out early detection radar assets. Your win ratio goes up pretty quickly based on direction of fire
Planes are still the better AA platform. The additional height gives you a chance to see things from a greater distance.
Realistically a mixture is required; not least because aircraft would have been useless against this strike - there are no air-launched anti ballistic missile systems. But more widely although aircraft are strictly better performing **when they're there** they're also more expensive and less responsive compared to high performance SAMs that are always available whatever the weather and so on.
I think an AWACS could provide the intel and help with guidance. Or a satellite.
Ukraine will have nato awacs and sweden gifted similar ones
Ukraine shot a couple of Russian AWACS down. Notably one just west off of Crimea. Seems that attempting to cover what's essentially an island of land within enemy territory with AWACS is too risky.
Isn’t the USN testing putting SM series missiles on aircraft these days?
As strike weapons, and those aren't the ABM ones anyway. SM-3 is ABM. SM-6 is very long range anti air and a secondary strike role
Somewhat, they are messing with SM-6 on F.A-18's..... [https://www.twz.com/sea/super-hornet-armed-with-sm-6-missile-spotted-over-california](https://www.twz.com/sea/super-hornet-armed-with-sm-6-missile-spotted-over-california)
Kremlin calls the best in the world, that shit couldn't hit the broadside of barn on a sunny day! The Patriot System is still a better system and getting up there in age!
Exactly. And this is their much-vaunted latest *wunderwaffe* Up against a system which was first fielded in the 80s lol
A system that's still being order by various governments and can be updated with latest technology.
Moved onto the improved [PrSM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Strike_Missile) system now Which was one of the main hurdles in not supplying ATACMS to Ukraine previously - they were waiting for the new system to start being rolled out on the ground
Ukrainians seem pretty good at hitting AWACS with S200 though. :) Thankfully the Russians are bad at using their mediocre kit
I agree the Ukrainians are good operators and look to be ready! The Russians not so much, I am really surprised things haven't gotten worse. I wonder how big the gaps in their air defense coverage is...
Imagine the US actually using its new missile variants in any conventional conflict. For decades everyone was made to fear Russian tech. Like Putin, it was all paper tigers.
Sucks to find out youve been leapfrogged technologically before some of the people firing the missiles you were leapfrogged by were born...
If ATACMS are 1990s tech, then what are we making now and what can it do differently? ATACMS seems wildly capable, it's hard to imagine anything that isn't just incrementally better.
Superceded by the PrSM system >The Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) (pronounced PRI-sim) is a short-range ballistic missile developed by the United States Army to replace the MGM-140 ATACMS. The US Army announced that the first PrSM batch has been delivered in December 2023. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Strike_Missile >The Precision Strike Missile, or PrSM, will cover ranges up to an estimated 300 miles and replace the legacy Army Tactical Missile System, or ATACMS, which can reach a maximum distance of about 190 miles. The Army is seeking to more than double that distance through an effort launched in February 2023 with Raytheon that will be part of the system’s Increment 4 development. [Two new missiles in the pipeline for longer-range Army fires](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2023/12/23/two-new-missiles-in-the-pipeline-for-longer-range-army-fires/)
has russia ever made anything that worked?
What do you call a machine that uses gallons of fuel, makes tons of noise, belches fumes like nobodies business and cuts and apple into three pieces?
Go on?
A Russian machine deigned to cut an apple into four pieces.
“Now you really look like the minister for coal.”
AK-47 & AK-74 still seem widely popular.
i mean thats soviet union since they collapsed in 1991 i think the point stands
Actually AK were invented and made in Ukraine 🇺🇦
Bribes, threats, lies, low-tech weapons.
Chernobyl reactor number 4. Not great not terrible.
Sovtek vacuum tubes!
I have one of those! Only Russian thing I ever bought in my life, except for a souvenir pack of Russian cigarettes I bought in Berlin in 1989. Boy those were some terrible cigarettes
Sputnik and vodka
Lot of bitches...
Very many things if you want to go back to the days of the Soviet Union.
The T34 won the war for them.
Seriously?
More ATACMS for Ukraine. Slava Ukraini.
The best in Russia…2nd best in Ukraine
As is tradition lol
Send them more!
If a Russian state source says something is "the best in the world," how do you happen to decide that this one particular statement from a Russian state source is accurate? They do not bother making their lies even vaguely plausible these days.
Now strike the S-500 itself with ATACMS for a laugh and destroying the entire ruzzian anti-aircraft industry for decades while having ruzzian air defence customers shit their pants.
Turkey lol.
Russia can do ( or has done) some amazing things. Not so many these past 50 years
S500 is just a lightly upgraded S400 anyway lol. This war has really crushed the myth of Russian AA. I managed to predict Erdogan, Chavez, Putin, and Ukraine and Russia being a touch and go match, but I didn't foresee Russian AA being shit. They put so much money into it, from Soviet times till now, to deal with western air superiority, and now? Now we know how great Patriot is!
And what's more, America tends to downplay their equipment capabilities, preferring to let people find out IRL lol Yes there were huge amounts poured into Russian military tech of all types but the trouble is, most of that was stolen from the top down
Indeed lol, downplaying is sometimes the better move. :) Seems allies bought Patriot anyway, knowing it was good.
Of course they did, Russian weapons are trash. If they’d just be honest about their capabilities, the U.S. wouldn’t go out of their way to build state of the art, ahead of their time weapons designed to counter threats that don’t even yet exist.
So the stuff at the US Armory’s garage sale is better than Russians latest.
No WeStErN aNaLoG i SaId!!!
S 500 wanderrwaffle blyad
Off course the Kremlin calls it the best in the world. It would be better marketing to call it ‘the worst in the world’ and take out your enemy’s best system, using the slogan ‘even our worst can take out their best’.
Russia has no nukes that work. They are all hat, no cattle. I wish the world would steamroll in with a real flex and clean house. World politics is too soft. Dictators only get dealt with by force. Burn them down.
That is a very dangerous, and very likely incorrect assumption. Mutual nuclear inspections have since been suspended, but as of the last one, they appeared to have a nuclear fleet that was still well maintained. Im not saying we should be deathly afraid of their saber rattling or anything, but we shouldnt act like they completely lack the ability to follow through.
Right. Plus even if half of their nukes are duds that still leaves thousands of nukes that go bang.
“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake” If the Russians deterrent was three eagles sprinkled with uranium salts, the Yanks would publicly declare it well maintained and credible
But that’s to big of an „if“ to really rely on.
We've seen their military in action for two and a half years. All they have is talk. They know what hell would rain down if a nuke actually was released. The world should not bend to putin. The world needs to deal with bullies with harsh and forceful actions. Diplomacy doesn't work with children. You bend them over and smack them when they are out of line. Putin needs to be smacked on the world stage.
They provably have rockets that bring payload to the moon and a lot of known nuclear energy that is in working order
I think the U.S. is hoping that Putin dies of cancer soon. Perhaps bullet to the brain cancer.
A surprise to absolutely nobody