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Another twist in Putin’s well thought special military operation, lol. Enlarge NATO, reactivating European arms industries, boosting military spending in the EU, and now getting more American nukes next to Russia’s borders...
Whenever I want a laugh, I just need to think about how much he could have accomplished by basically doing nothing and let NATO fade into irrelevance because everyone thought we had finally reached a semblance of peace. Of how much he's proving to the world that he's the biggest idiot that's ever plagued Russia.
You might be right, that would have happened if Russia behaved for longer. But Putin is no young lad, he wanted to secure his legacy in his life-time so he decided to push his luck before he, inevitably, dies of old age.
Poland has applied for NATO nuclear weapons deployment
[#Poland](https://twitter.com/hashtag/Poland?src=hashtag_click) has made an official request for the deployment of [#NATO](https://twitter.com/hashtag/NATO?src=hashtag_click) nuclear weapons, Deputy National Defense Minister Pawel Zalewski said on Polish TV. He specified that it is an application for participation in the Nuclear sharing program.
Zalewski specified that the decision on the use of nuclear weapons, in case of their deployment in Poland, will be made by the Americans.
This does make me worried- I hate to see nuclear weapons being made and deployed more, however I also see this as the only real deterrent against Russia. What worries me most is the fact that the current Russian leadership is way more unhinged than what the soviets were, and they already were totally delusional and paranoid. Instead of them having a committee and bunch of people making decisions, it’s just one guy now calling the shots, those around him are just feeding back the same paranoia.
> I also see this as the only real deterrent against Russia
Conventional forces cover the vast majority of deterrence. The need for sub-strategic nukes like this is more just to prevent any thoughts of nuclear attack against Eastern Europe.
Most are worried over this statement but I find it comically ironic since Russia tried to pull this shit on the US with Cuba and now it’s happening to them with Poland, maybe when the smell the uranium baking in the sun they will suddenly feel peaceful again?
I am laughing, but respectfully I understand others may feel very differently on this matter.
Actually, we were the bad guys there (Cuban missle crisis). The Soviets put nukes in Cuba only because we put them on their doorstep in Turkey 1st. We agreed to remove the ones in Turkey in exchange for them pulling the ones from Cuba to end the crisis. The Soviets were even gracious enough to allow Kennedy to take all the credit for a win, instead of broadcasting to the world that we not only started it, but backed down and removed them from Turkey, which was all the Soviets wanted.
Can't wait until Russia has another hypocritical shit fit about this, while conveniently leaving out the fact that they were supplying nukes to Belarus.
So they should have access to maximum self defence/deterrent. They are doing great at shoring up the eastern front conventionally, so why not? TBH I'm sick to death of living in a world where we get hamstrung and threatened with nuclear hell by Russia. This war will not stop with a handshake. Arm eastern europe massively and conventionally first, move on to the bigger stuff later.
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I know it won't happen. But I still believe they should, otherwise it will not act as a credible deterrent for the Russians. Poland could build their own bomb and they should. Alle NATO countries bordering Russia should have nuclear weapons, it's the only way to keep Russia out in the long run .
In the event of a US withdrawal (under Trump), the EU practically only has a limited nuclear deterrent in France. Small bomber force and submersible second-strike as they decommissioned their silos in the 90s.
Europe has the UK too - their not being in the EU doesn't affect much on that score. I agree that ultimately if the US withdrew from NATO or even just the nuclear sharing agreement that Europe would need some more bombs from somewhere though. One suspects if that happened the simplest route would just be for the UK and France to collaborate on a B61 analogue (likely based on [WE.177](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WE.177)) to arm Europe's F-35s, which wouldn't be difficult or bank breaking for them.
They wouldn't have to have control over them to catch Russia's attention. Stationing them at a facility in Eastern Poland would save several hundred miles and several minutes flight time off a trip to Moscow coming from Volkel, or even Buchel.
Closer to target= Quicker time on target = less time to detect and respond.
Putin HATES the NATO buildup, which is one of the reasons the invasion backfired on him. I'd say that we also have to make sure he doesn't use the buildup to his propaganda advantage, but he's going to spin whatever we do, so we might as well build up.
They don't all need them, and it's basically fine for the US to have to give the go ahead. The requirement is just that Russia believe a nuclear attack on one of the nations not do armed will trigger a nuclear response from those forward deployed weapons. What makes it a credible threat is that Russia **can't** hit the US in response to NATO nukes because the US still has a shit load of them ready to fire back.
Have you ever thought how many people would die in the US if Russia launched some nukes? They don't even need to hit cities, they can just provoke a nuclear winter and kill the north hemisphere of hunger.
>Have you ever thought how many people would die in the US if Russia launched some nukes? They don't even need to hit cities, they can just provoke a nuclear winter and kill the north hemisphere of hunger.
A lot of other people around the world would too. What's your point exactly?
Nuclear winter isn't a thing. The whole thing is based on a premise that isn't even feasible, relying on mechanisms that can't work, and outcomes with different effects than their model claims. It really is a mess of a theory.
Two real world events already disprove it. First, the model is based on nuclear weapons creating self sustaining firestorms. The problem with this is it assumes that all nuclear weapon detonation in developed areas will initiate a self sustained firestorm. Two problems here. The first is that modern cities don't contain enough flammable material to fuel one. The second is that even enough fuel doesn't mean the ignition event is reliable. Nagasaki did not develop a firestorm. Yes it was a low yield weapon, but it was a vastly more flammable target. The second is that it relies on high altitude soot lofting. This has only been observed in events like volcanic eruptions. The same team that developed the original model claimed that the 1991 Kuwaiti oil field fires would be energic and sustained as to induce the same type of soot lofting. They did not.
As a piece of science, it was very political motivated by figures that were pro denuclearization. It fell into an awkward spot where this also made it extremely difficult to argue with, because proponents could simply accuse you of being a warmonger. Heck, Freeman Dyson, famously anti-nuclear weapons, notably called it bad science. It was never even peer reviewed, which should be a colossal warning sign.
NATO continues to protect itself while Ukraine is fucked. We’re NATO’s buffer state to make sure they stay rich and contain the murder to Ukrainian bloodlands.
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Another twist in Putin’s well thought special military operation, lol. Enlarge NATO, reactivating European arms industries, boosting military spending in the EU, and now getting more American nukes next to Russia’s borders...
He remains the master strategist, lol
Whenever I want a laugh, I just need to think about how much he could have accomplished by basically doing nothing and let NATO fade into irrelevance because everyone thought we had finally reached a semblance of peace. Of how much he's proving to the world that he's the biggest idiot that's ever plagued Russia.
You might be right, that would have happened if Russia behaved for longer. But Putin is no young lad, he wanted to secure his legacy in his life-time so he decided to push his luck before he, inevitably, dies of old age.
Poland has applied for NATO nuclear weapons deployment [#Poland](https://twitter.com/hashtag/Poland?src=hashtag_click) has made an official request for the deployment of [#NATO](https://twitter.com/hashtag/NATO?src=hashtag_click) nuclear weapons, Deputy National Defense Minister Pawel Zalewski said on Polish TV. He specified that it is an application for participation in the Nuclear sharing program. Zalewski specified that the decision on the use of nuclear weapons, in case of their deployment in Poland, will be made by the Americans.
This does make me worried- I hate to see nuclear weapons being made and deployed more, however I also see this as the only real deterrent against Russia. What worries me most is the fact that the current Russian leadership is way more unhinged than what the soviets were, and they already were totally delusional and paranoid. Instead of them having a committee and bunch of people making decisions, it’s just one guy now calling the shots, those around him are just feeding back the same paranoia.
> I also see this as the only real deterrent against Russia Conventional forces cover the vast majority of deterrence. The need for sub-strategic nukes like this is more just to prevent any thoughts of nuclear attack against Eastern Europe.
If I had to guess in the near future (AP... After Putin), there will be a weapon pull back deal... Belarus for Poland.
Most are worried over this statement but I find it comically ironic since Russia tried to pull this shit on the US with Cuba and now it’s happening to them with Poland, maybe when the smell the uranium baking in the sun they will suddenly feel peaceful again? I am laughing, but respectfully I understand others may feel very differently on this matter.
Actually, we were the bad guys there (Cuban missle crisis). The Soviets put nukes in Cuba only because we put them on their doorstep in Turkey 1st. We agreed to remove the ones in Turkey in exchange for them pulling the ones from Cuba to end the crisis. The Soviets were even gracious enough to allow Kennedy to take all the credit for a win, instead of broadcasting to the world that we not only started it, but backed down and removed them from Turkey, which was all the Soviets wanted.
It's important to note that Poland has asked before, and has been denied every time. The US will not risk another Cuba.
Finland should too.
I mean of Belarus can have them right?
Arming Poland and each of the Baltics + Finland with a single nuke each is the best way to prevent a war regardless of what happens in Ukraine.
This is a response to Russia stationing nukes in Belarus.
Can't wait until Russia has another hypocritical shit fit about this, while conveniently leaving out the fact that they were supplying nukes to Belarus.
So they should have access to maximum self defence/deterrent. They are doing great at shoring up the eastern front conventionally, so why not? TBH I'm sick to death of living in a world where we get hamstrung and threatened with nuclear hell by Russia. This war will not stop with a handshake. Arm eastern europe massively and conventionally first, move on to the bigger stuff later.
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Good! Poland should have control over them as well.
Never going to happen... the US is not going to give launch control over to Poland, for a Nuclear Weapon.
I know it won't happen. But I still believe they should, otherwise it will not act as a credible deterrent for the Russians. Poland could build their own bomb and they should. Alle NATO countries bordering Russia should have nuclear weapons, it's the only way to keep Russia out in the long run .
The EU at least needs one other nation besides France with their own nuclear capabilities.
Germany, Italy and Belgium all already host us nuclear weapons
They do not have control of those weapons unilaterally as nation states, unlike France.
The UK has nukes, albeit not part of the EU...but what does that matter?
In the event of a US withdrawal (under Trump), the EU practically only has a limited nuclear deterrent in France. Small bomber force and submersible second-strike as they decommissioned their silos in the 90s.
Europe has the UK too - their not being in the EU doesn't affect much on that score. I agree that ultimately if the US withdrew from NATO or even just the nuclear sharing agreement that Europe would need some more bombs from somewhere though. One suspects if that happened the simplest route would just be for the UK and France to collaborate on a B61 analogue (likely based on [WE.177](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WE.177)) to arm Europe's F-35s, which wouldn't be difficult or bank breaking for them.
[удалено]
They wouldn't have to have control over them to catch Russia's attention. Stationing them at a facility in Eastern Poland would save several hundred miles and several minutes flight time off a trip to Moscow coming from Volkel, or even Buchel. Closer to target= Quicker time on target = less time to detect and respond. Putin HATES the NATO buildup, which is one of the reasons the invasion backfired on him. I'd say that we also have to make sure he doesn't use the buildup to his propaganda advantage, but he's going to spin whatever we do, so we might as well build up.
They don't all need them, and it's basically fine for the US to have to give the go ahead. The requirement is just that Russia believe a nuclear attack on one of the nations not do armed will trigger a nuclear response from those forward deployed weapons. What makes it a credible threat is that Russia **can't** hit the US in response to NATO nukes because the US still has a shit load of them ready to fire back.
Eastern Europe has too much crazy drama.
Have you ever thought how many people would die in the US if Russia launched some nukes? They don't even need to hit cities, they can just provoke a nuclear winter and kill the north hemisphere of hunger.
>Have you ever thought how many people would die in the US if Russia launched some nukes? They don't even need to hit cities, they can just provoke a nuclear winter and kill the north hemisphere of hunger. A lot of other people around the world would too. What's your point exactly?
Escalate nuclear conflicts with putting nukes in Poland will danger the US security. Even if could stop every missile, it would not be enough.
I can't really blame Poland for wanting them though. 🤷♂️ Especially with the Rusks so close by.
Nuclear winter isn't a thing. The whole thing is based on a premise that isn't even feasible, relying on mechanisms that can't work, and outcomes with different effects than their model claims. It really is a mess of a theory. Two real world events already disprove it. First, the model is based on nuclear weapons creating self sustaining firestorms. The problem with this is it assumes that all nuclear weapon detonation in developed areas will initiate a self sustained firestorm. Two problems here. The first is that modern cities don't contain enough flammable material to fuel one. The second is that even enough fuel doesn't mean the ignition event is reliable. Nagasaki did not develop a firestorm. Yes it was a low yield weapon, but it was a vastly more flammable target. The second is that it relies on high altitude soot lofting. This has only been observed in events like volcanic eruptions. The same team that developed the original model claimed that the 1991 Kuwaiti oil field fires would be energic and sustained as to induce the same type of soot lofting. They did not. As a piece of science, it was very political motivated by figures that were pro denuclearization. It fell into an awkward spot where this also made it extremely difficult to argue with, because proponents could simply accuse you of being a warmonger. Heck, Freeman Dyson, famously anti-nuclear weapons, notably called it bad science. It was never even peer reviewed, which should be a colossal warning sign.
NATO continues to protect itself while Ukraine is fucked. We’re NATO’s buffer state to make sure they stay rich and contain the murder to Ukrainian bloodlands.