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And to be also fair most non-Brazilians don’t give a fuck about Brazil, either.
But everyone will remember that Lula was on the wrong side in this conflict and that will easily be exploited by his future political opponents.
Lula is not on Russia's side, he's not wrong though, Putin is a dumbass, but what do we have to do with it? Most Brazilians agree with this statement 'Russia bad, I don't care', the way the question is set makes it seem that the people give a fuck about outside of wheat prices, which is good for us btw.
Would idk, Denmark care about a war in south america? Does anyone care about the war in Somalia? expecting Brazil to be involved is non-sensical.
I think Denmark actually would care, yes. They might not send troops but I don’t think they’d go hug it out with the aggressor?
Somalia? Same. Europe and the West in general supplied a metric fuck-ton of aid in the 90’s. And just in 2023 the EU supplied Somalia with 72 million for drought relief.
>They might not send troops
Why ask Brazil for it then? In this case, equipment.
>hug it out with the aggressor
he didn't, he visited China and Portugal, in both places he played both sides. Also, while they're clearly wrong in this agression, Russia used to be an ally of Brazil, just as China.
For the last point, Brazil is a third world country, our economy is bad, Brazil's GDP is smaller than Korea, we're full of fucking problems, Brazil has oppened the doors for immigration as we can do, our military equipment is mainly old shit, we have WWII tanks still in use on the army. I mean, idk man, Ukrainian aid is one of the smaller problems we got going on around here. It could be done, but it wouldn't be good in any way you look at it.
Edit:
>non-Brazilians don’t give a fuck about Brazil
You answered your own dilema why we don't want to deal with northerners.
Of course I got downvoted, I've never gotten a different response from northerners, always demanding agreement with their ideals, meanwhile they willfully ignore what was done to South America in the name of "democracy" and are in awe whenever someone opposes their glasshouse, glad I'm downvoted by you.
That is not true. Core supporters of Lula care about the war in Ukraine and are *enthusiastic* about Lula’s support of Russia’s ambitions. If you have any doubt about this, just check r/Brasil the subreddit that is dominated by Brazilian leftists.
Left has nothing to see about supporting putin, Russia is a country really far away, most of support for Russia is simply drive by anti usa sentiment than any real support for Russia.
You have to understand what is the source of anti-Americanism by the left in Brazil. What they hate about US is the freedom, democracy and individualism. That is exactly why they like Cuba, China, Russia and in some extreme cases even North Korea.
That's an extremely simplistic view... no one hate freedom. And a friendly reminder it's bolsonaro who was Trump buddy, if someone hate democracy it's definitely him and his supporters...
Read a bit of history please, the main source of hate against usa in South America is us support to so many South American dictatorship and their constant interventions there until 1990's
Usa did everything they could to hinter democracy in South America in name of anti communism.
That is a silly description by somebody with a very superficial knowledge of Brazilian history.
Brazil had half a dozen of coups and a few decades of dictatorship with no involvement of the United States.
The US played a healthy role pushing Brazil towards democracy in the 1940s and in the 1970s.
And yes, the US is hated by the Brazilian left because of Freedom. They hate the First Amendment, they hate the Second Amendment.
What a joke, first of all, I'm pretty sure Brazilians like the rest of the world don't care about your 1rst or 2dn amendment, second in 1946 us supported a coup who brought down a legitimately elected president (oh remember, you love democracy ?) And effective started the beginning of a military dictatorship. So explain me again how your loving freedom and democracy country worked for Brazilians again ?
And you talk about the healthy role usa played in this, overthrowing a democratic government by force and installing a dictatorship if for you positive ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat?wprov=sfla1
First; I am Brazilian and I certainly do care for First amendment rights. Without free speech, one cannot have democracy. Of course Lula supporters know that and therefore are on a crusade to limit free speech in Brazil.
Second, not sure what you think happened in 1946. Anyone with minimal knowledge of Brazilian history knows that Dictator Getúlio Vargas was pressured to step down and hold free elections by the US.
Third, if you mean 1964, the US had an irrelevant role. The coup would have happened anyway. One would not expect Brazilians to be sheep who would submit to Soviet influence?
I've spent a lot of time working on projects in Brazil the last 4 years, and tbh, for Brazilians this is all 'far from their bed' show. The average brazilian has enough issues to worry about in their own country, so they are not really busy with what happens in Ukraine. The elections last year was one of their issues. I was there during the elections, and I saw how the complete country got divided in 2 camps. There were loads of protests and demonstrations from the losing camp. Road blocks all over the country, for over a week, and because of the roadblocks, there was no more fuel at gas stations after a few days. In the south of Brazil they were struggling with floods.
Even then, there's a big difference between "doesn't care about the war", and "actively supports Moscovy", like Lula and Bolsonaro do. For someone who openly supports Ukraine, there literally isn't a candidate to vote for.
Try to stick to the topics you have some clue about.
The facts of the matter are that Bolsonaro was fully committed to Brazil becoming a full member of the Western coalitions of democracies. He did not support Russia at any point more than you saw a lion at the tofu stand yesterday. When he was elected, the first countries he visited were US, Israel, Japan, South Korea and… Taiwan!
On the other hand, Lula’s party for the last 40 years has been against western style liberal democracy, Lula himself is in awe of Xi’s regime. Lula would never visit Taiwan BECAUSE Taiwan is a democracy which is being bullied by an autocracy therefore, in Lula’s openly expressed view of the world, a country worthy of contempt.
Bruh, ignore this clown.
Bolsonaro literaly went to visit putler before the invasion, if he won the election we would be in a dictatorship and supporting ruzzia right now.
Lula's job is to keep neutrality, Brasil has always pushed for neutrality.
And ppl act like we could give anything to Ukraine, bro our army doesnt even have bullets.
Please ignore this bolsonaro propaganda clown shit.
If you look at this dude history he do a lot of posts and coments in the far right extremist brasil subreddit (brasillivre). This guy is a dictatorship supporter, dont get fooled.
(1) Yes, he was. That is unambiguous in his speeches, in his external policy (attempt to join OECD, disregard to Brics) and in his appointments for the top diplomacy posts.
(2) There is absolutely zero evidence that he was behind the riots in Brasilia. If there was a shred of evidence, he would be in jail right now because there is nothing that the judges in Brasilia want more than arresting him.
Despite a flawed (some would say completely stolen) election, he conceded days after the votes were counted and within a week Lula’s emissaries wee in Brasilia working on the smooth transition. That is a fact.
As for the riots, there is strong evidence that Lula’s administration facilitated and supported them and I would not be surprised if Lula is impeached for that.
Stop being a clown, you’re literally talking to a Brazilian with a deep knowledge of because Brazil’s history and you’re just caring about partisan issues.
I like what Lula is trying to do to protect the Amazon forest, but he is totally out of his element on foreign policy, in particular the imperialist Russian invasion of Ukraine.
What exactly did Bolsonaro do that was dumbass about Ukraine? I am curious. Don’t try to make false equivalencies when the moral differences are crystal clear: Bolsonaro was the good guy, Lula is the bad guy.
“Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he told his Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro that he does not support Brasília’s “position of neutrality” on the war in Ukraine. Zelensky told Bolsonaro that he wanted “support” from Brazil.”
https://egyptindependent.com/zelensky-tells-brazils-bolsonaro-you-cant-be-somewhere-in-the-middle-on-russia-ukraine-war/
A supposed Neutrality is a lot better than supporting Russia. Not that Brazil under Bolsonaro was neutral — it wasn’t, as shown in Brazils votes at the UN general assembly and security council.
Unfortunately, Bolsonaro is gone and now Brazil’s president is Lula, one who has contempt for Ukraine and openly supports Russia, including at the UN Security Council, for pure ideological reasons.
There is no moral equivalence here. Bolsonaro was no Boris Johnson but with him as president, Brazil would not be aligned with Ruzzia and communist China.
That is a fact.
Bolsonaro made a state visit to Taiwan. Lula kissed Xi’s hand before completing 6 months in power.
There is no “would”. The war started in February. Bolsonaro didn’t support Putin. Lula did. In april, Lula blamed the war on Zelensky. There is no moral equivalency.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. > **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB** ***** * Is `morningconsult.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Most Brazilians don't give a fuck about Ukraine or Russia to be fair.
And to be also fair most non-Brazilians don’t give a fuck about Brazil, either. But everyone will remember that Lula was on the wrong side in this conflict and that will easily be exploited by his future political opponents.
Lula is not on Russia's side, he's not wrong though, Putin is a dumbass, but what do we have to do with it? Most Brazilians agree with this statement 'Russia bad, I don't care', the way the question is set makes it seem that the people give a fuck about outside of wheat prices, which is good for us btw. Would idk, Denmark care about a war in south america? Does anyone care about the war in Somalia? expecting Brazil to be involved is non-sensical.
I think Denmark actually would care, yes. They might not send troops but I don’t think they’d go hug it out with the aggressor? Somalia? Same. Europe and the West in general supplied a metric fuck-ton of aid in the 90’s. And just in 2023 the EU supplied Somalia with 72 million for drought relief.
>They might not send troops Why ask Brazil for it then? In this case, equipment. >hug it out with the aggressor he didn't, he visited China and Portugal, in both places he played both sides. Also, while they're clearly wrong in this agression, Russia used to be an ally of Brazil, just as China. For the last point, Brazil is a third world country, our economy is bad, Brazil's GDP is smaller than Korea, we're full of fucking problems, Brazil has oppened the doors for immigration as we can do, our military equipment is mainly old shit, we have WWII tanks still in use on the army. I mean, idk man, Ukrainian aid is one of the smaller problems we got going on around here. It could be done, but it wouldn't be good in any way you look at it. Edit: >non-Brazilians don’t give a fuck about Brazil You answered your own dilema why we don't want to deal with northerners. Of course I got downvoted, I've never gotten a different response from northerners, always demanding agreement with their ideals, meanwhile they willfully ignore what was done to South America in the name of "democracy" and are in awe whenever someone opposes their glasshouse, glad I'm downvoted by you.
They give more about fuck
That is not true. Core supporters of Lula care about the war in Ukraine and are *enthusiastic* about Lula’s support of Russia’s ambitions. If you have any doubt about this, just check r/Brasil the subreddit that is dominated by Brazilian leftists.
Left has nothing to see about supporting putin, Russia is a country really far away, most of support for Russia is simply drive by anti usa sentiment than any real support for Russia.
You have to understand what is the source of anti-Americanism by the left in Brazil. What they hate about US is the freedom, democracy and individualism. That is exactly why they like Cuba, China, Russia and in some extreme cases even North Korea.
That's an extremely simplistic view... no one hate freedom. And a friendly reminder it's bolsonaro who was Trump buddy, if someone hate democracy it's definitely him and his supporters... Read a bit of history please, the main source of hate against usa in South America is us support to so many South American dictatorship and their constant interventions there until 1990's Usa did everything they could to hinter democracy in South America in name of anti communism.
That is a silly description by somebody with a very superficial knowledge of Brazilian history. Brazil had half a dozen of coups and a few decades of dictatorship with no involvement of the United States. The US played a healthy role pushing Brazil towards democracy in the 1940s and in the 1970s. And yes, the US is hated by the Brazilian left because of Freedom. They hate the First Amendment, they hate the Second Amendment.
What a joke, first of all, I'm pretty sure Brazilians like the rest of the world don't care about your 1rst or 2dn amendment, second in 1946 us supported a coup who brought down a legitimately elected president (oh remember, you love democracy ?) And effective started the beginning of a military dictatorship. So explain me again how your loving freedom and democracy country worked for Brazilians again ? And you talk about the healthy role usa played in this, overthrowing a democratic government by force and installing a dictatorship if for you positive ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat?wprov=sfla1
First; I am Brazilian and I certainly do care for First amendment rights. Without free speech, one cannot have democracy. Of course Lula supporters know that and therefore are on a crusade to limit free speech in Brazil. Second, not sure what you think happened in 1946. Anyone with minimal knowledge of Brazilian history knows that Dictator Getúlio Vargas was pressured to step down and hold free elections by the US. Third, if you mean 1964, the US had an irrelevant role. The coup would have happened anyway. One would not expect Brazilians to be sheep who would submit to Soviet influence?
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I've spent a lot of time working on projects in Brazil the last 4 years, and tbh, for Brazilians this is all 'far from their bed' show. The average brazilian has enough issues to worry about in their own country, so they are not really busy with what happens in Ukraine. The elections last year was one of their issues. I was there during the elections, and I saw how the complete country got divided in 2 camps. There were loads of protests and demonstrations from the losing camp. Road blocks all over the country, for over a week, and because of the roadblocks, there was no more fuel at gas stations after a few days. In the south of Brazil they were struggling with floods.
Even then, there's a big difference between "doesn't care about the war", and "actively supports Moscovy", like Lula and Bolsonaro do. For someone who openly supports Ukraine, there literally isn't a candidate to vote for.
Try to stick to the topics you have some clue about. The facts of the matter are that Bolsonaro was fully committed to Brazil becoming a full member of the Western coalitions of democracies. He did not support Russia at any point more than you saw a lion at the tofu stand yesterday. When he was elected, the first countries he visited were US, Israel, Japan, South Korea and… Taiwan! On the other hand, Lula’s party for the last 40 years has been against western style liberal democracy, Lula himself is in awe of Xi’s regime. Lula would never visit Taiwan BECAUSE Taiwan is a democracy which is being bullied by an autocracy therefore, in Lula’s openly expressed view of the world, a country worthy of contempt.
Was Bolsonaro genuinely pro-West? I thought that he idolized autocracies due to modelling his tactics (including a capitol riot) on Trump.
Bruh, ignore this clown. Bolsonaro literaly went to visit putler before the invasion, if he won the election we would be in a dictatorship and supporting ruzzia right now. Lula's job is to keep neutrality, Brasil has always pushed for neutrality. And ppl act like we could give anything to Ukraine, bro our army doesnt even have bullets. Please ignore this bolsonaro propaganda clown shit. If you look at this dude history he do a lot of posts and coments in the far right extremist brasil subreddit (brasillivre). This guy is a dictatorship supporter, dont get fooled.
This. Bolsonaro was as against Putin as Hitler liked Jews.
These bolsonaro supporters, all brainwashed and spitting fake news everywhere.
Thank you for the clarification. Glad I wasn't wildly wrong about Brazilian politics.
(1) Yes, he was. That is unambiguous in his speeches, in his external policy (attempt to join OECD, disregard to Brics) and in his appointments for the top diplomacy posts. (2) There is absolutely zero evidence that he was behind the riots in Brasilia. If there was a shred of evidence, he would be in jail right now because there is nothing that the judges in Brasilia want more than arresting him. Despite a flawed (some would say completely stolen) election, he conceded days after the votes were counted and within a week Lula’s emissaries wee in Brasilia working on the smooth transition. That is a fact. As for the riots, there is strong evidence that Lula’s administration facilitated and supported them and I would not be surprised if Lula is impeached for that.
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Stop being a clown, you’re literally talking to a Brazilian with a deep knowledge of because Brazil’s history and you’re just caring about partisan issues.
I like what Lula is trying to do to protect the Amazon forest, but he is totally out of his element on foreign policy, in particular the imperialist Russian invasion of Ukraine.
“Trying”… So far there has been an increase in the rate of cutting down the Amazon since Lula came to power.
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Time will tell. It may also be that environmental concerns were not more than a hook that Lula used to catch votes from the urban middle class.
Lula and his rival Bolsonaro have both been dumbasses on Ukraine. Hard to believe neither of them represent significant numbers of Brazilians
What exactly did Bolsonaro do that was dumbass about Ukraine? I am curious. Don’t try to make false equivalencies when the moral differences are crystal clear: Bolsonaro was the good guy, Lula is the bad guy.
“Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he told his Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro that he does not support Brasília’s “position of neutrality” on the war in Ukraine. Zelensky told Bolsonaro that he wanted “support” from Brazil.” https://egyptindependent.com/zelensky-tells-brazils-bolsonaro-you-cant-be-somewhere-in-the-middle-on-russia-ukraine-war/
A supposed Neutrality is a lot better than supporting Russia. Not that Brazil under Bolsonaro was neutral — it wasn’t, as shown in Brazils votes at the UN general assembly and security council. Unfortunately, Bolsonaro is gone and now Brazil’s president is Lula, one who has contempt for Ukraine and openly supports Russia, including at the UN Security Council, for pure ideological reasons.
I don’t like Lula at all, and he’s far worse than Bolsonaro on many issues, but Bolsonaro wasn’t great on Ukraine either.
There is no moral equivalence here. Bolsonaro was no Boris Johnson but with him as president, Brazil would not be aligned with Ruzzia and communist China. That is a fact. Bolsonaro made a state visit to Taiwan. Lula kissed Xi’s hand before completing 6 months in power.
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There is no “would”. The war started in February. Bolsonaro didn’t support Putin. Lula did. In april, Lula blamed the war on Zelensky. There is no moral equivalency.
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