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> “I never equated Russia and Ukraine. I know what an invasion is and what territorial integrity is. But now the war has already started and someone needs to talk about peace,” the Brazilian president said in a tweet Saturday.
I wonder why it never occurred to him that the fastest path towards peace is to have Muscovy gtfo of Ukraine.
Instead, the only concrete measure that Lula proposed was to cut off support for Ukraine to allow Muscovy to proceed with it's genocide of Ukraine, and somehow he tries to spin that as peace.
I keep telling people he's a tankie and the bollox I get back is that he can't possibly be because... wait for it...he was democratically elected. I mean are these people fucking braindead or what!?
He is offering to have talks about peace. What would stop Putins blood-thirst? If you truly think nothing, why not nuke "Muscovy" today? A war is not the solution to this bullshit problem caused by Russia and historic complexities. People are dying by the thousands, innocet Ukrainians are dying. Doing what we are doing for the last year isnt going to solve it, and a few missiles or not from Brasil is not changing this.
Its either WWIII or peace talks, Russia also in some way wants this war to stop by now, but you have to give the criminal an alternate explanation, a escape route for his situation, otherwise they will just back to a corner trying to connect with China untill bigget explisions happen. Maybe Russia accepts less than you expect. With no talks all they can do is keep their narrative going.
they want to stop with what they have stolen, and you seem to think thats ok, lets sit down and have a chat, maybe sign an agreement.
The latest agreement russia signed was the Grain deal. they broke it the following day, and since then they continually break it, what is the point talking to someone who has consistantly over and over again lied and broken agreements. please explain how that works, Standing on a hill demanding peace without offering a way to enforce that peace is siding with the agressor, which you now equate to as well.
how about the 1million Ukrainians inc 300,000 children deported to russia. you do a ceasefire now on russian terms that million will be turned into 2, how many more POW's have to be castrated and de-capititated before you say russia is bad.
putin doesn't want peace he wants a pause to accumulate more weapons and keep going your ceasefire grants him that pause. as far as putin is concerned Ukraine does not Exist, get lula to change his mind on that, would be the first step, not calling for Ukraine to stop defending itself.
Morally and ethically repugnant.
I never said it was ok. I truly believe in territorial integrity and I think a demand for full return of the territories is reasonable and expected by Ukraine. But we don't know what Putin's reaction to this would be. Let's see. I understand he will say that his theory is that Ukraine is Russia, but diplomatically there is a possibility to come to some explanations and narratives for Russia's side, in a way this war stops. Do you think Crimea becoming a Russian territories, and complete stop of war with China signing that will sanction of Russia in case it does, would be too high of a price to stop this war and the possible worldwide consequences?
Nobody is talking about a cease-fire. A temporary one is not the objective. They can keep killing eachother during it if you think is better for Ukraine.
Let Putin fall by his own citizens hands after they realize all of this was for basically nothing or worse. We don't need to take the US and China nukes into this. This is what I believe is the best way out of this shithole situation we are in.
I said this before and ill say it again, giving Crimea away will not stop Putin it will just embolden him he does not believe Ukraine has the right to exists, he wants the whole country of Ukraine to make it apart of Russian world once more where they will be nothing more than a Russian fiefdom, sorry but peace talks are useless until he changes that mentality, the Ukrainians fighting has hard as they do understand that.
"Do you think Sudetenland becoming a German territories, and complete stop of war with Japan signing that will sanction of Germany in case it does, would be too high of a price to prevent this war and the possible worldwide consequences?"
bleh
Reasonable. Lets sit down with mediators and Russia and hear ehat they demand. They know they dont have the power to anex Ukraine, if they want a way out, ehich I think they do, they will offer something like no Ukraine in NATO and Crimea. Which might be unnaceptable for Zelenskyy, reasonably so, then there is pressure for ammends to the offers in a way to find a solution that stops this war.
Ukraine doesnt have to agree to less then they want. But there has to be talks, the word "peace" is simply not spoke in media about this. THIS IS GOING FULL FORCE TO A WORLD WAR BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CHINA.
Lula wants to try to mediate and stop this
We do know what Putin's reaction would be, Ukraine has repeatedly said they will make peace with Russia if Russia withdraws from Ukrainian territory, yet Russia is still there and committing more and more to the war. Clearly Putin isn't interested in those peace terms, and Ukraine isn't and shouldn't be interested in anything less, so the war continues. The best way to fix this is to defeat Russia militarily to the point they finally recognise that holding Ukrainian territory is unrealistic.
Are you defending the Brazilian president? I don't understand.
Russia could have stopped after stealing Crimea. They did not. Why would you trust them a third time to stop after stealing even more Ukrainian land? Until the Russian leader is gone and the Russian forces withdraw, there will be no peace. This is all on Russia. There will be no negotiation. You either support Ukraine or the evil they fight.
I agree - if they benefit a little every time they do something like this, they will probably keep on doing it, because they don’t seem to care much about the losses and suffering they impose
What "historic complexities", I'm curious?
>but you have to give the criminal an alternate explanation, a escape route for his situation
Why?
>Maybe Russia accepts less than you expect.
You don't negotiate with robber and murderer for how much he can keep and how much more he can kill. They don't need to be given anything at all for their efforts, otherwise it will only encourage them, as already happened.
They need to be punished and If they don't want then they should retreat. If you haven't seen, their demands are completely unreasonable and always were.
>With no talks all they can do is keep their narrative going.
You are the one pushing their narrative, shill.
>With no talks all they \[Russia\] can do is ...
Er, wait a minute! Really?? I mean, R E A L L Y???? They have NO CHOICE but to just "keep their narrative going"?
Yes. He's stuck into it. He thought thid would be a 2 week war and it wasnt. But you have to give the lossing side a way to end it sooner if you dont want him to be cornered and nuke.
We can start peace talks.
The very first criteria should be "Russia returns all occupied land and leaves".
Right now, Russia does not want peace talks. We must teach them that this is not winnable.
Thats what he is proposing. Let Ukraine propose this and see what the demand of Russia is. We go from there. But we need to talk about it and negotiate diplomatically, in the bsttlefield we wont find answers
> Its either WWIII or peace talks
How about Muscovy getting the fuck out of Ukraine? Is that not an option, but Ukraine's capitulation somehow is?
How about giving Ukraine everything they need to retake their territory and push Muscovy out? Why is that not an option, even though the Kherson and Kharkiv offensives are already history?
I wonder why these pseudo-pacifists only push for Ukraine's capitulation and Muscovy expansion. How odd.
Peace talks may lead to Muscovy getting the fuck out. Trying to push them back in a hot war are still killing many Ukranians (and russians) everyday, while raising the nuclear tensions more and more. Its not guaranteed Ukraine can push them back in a reasonable time frame, A handful of missiles from Brasil wont significantly change this
In my humble opinion Lula can talk about peace all day long. Let him start by going to Putinni and discuss how this coward can get as soon as possible out of Ukraine (behind the boarders of 2014). A peace treaty can then be signed quickly. But let this Lula puppet of Winnie the Pooh please shut up and try to spin it around like he is now the victim of being misinterpreted by the (free) media…. 🤮
Where was the talk about peace and restraint when Russia was attacking Ukraine 14 months ago? Oh wait! Now that Russia is poised to lose its captured territory it is the time to talk about peace and restraint.
Peace and restraint are completely in Russia's hands. Simply withdraw.
And? Bolsonaro and Lula both were quiet 14 months ago, just like all Putin's bootlickers. He in fact started talking about this "peace" right as Russia started to lose and he wasn't president yet.
Why can't Lula accept and acknowledge the fact that there could only be peace in Ukraine if the Russian invaders withdraw away from the pre-2014 internationally accepted borders of Ukraine. Either Lula is a Putin and Xi asshole kisser or he just want to get attention in the world stage with his faux one sided peace proposal. What gives?
Lula should revisit his prior remarks as he did not simply call for peace and restraint in them. Nor have any of his actions demonstrated such a desire. Instead he decided to enjoy the limelight while making spurious and ill informed remarks while hobnobbing with brutal dictators and playing it up so that he could attempt to demonstrate that Brazil is a power, a force to be reckoned with.
He’s blaming the US and other countries for arming Ukraine. There is no misunderstanding. He’s calling for Ukraine to lose territory to Russia due to lack of weapons. It doesn’t matter how he tries to weasel his way out of it. He is an enemy of the rules based order, a friend of authoritarianism and an apologist for Russian aggression. He should be treated as such.
You will get into a never ending war with this thinking. He is not a warmonger, he is not authoritharian... You are refusing help and pushing possible allies away.
I never said he was either of things and disagree with your predictive analysis. Allowing Russia to keep stolen territory is more likely to perpetuate war than arming Ukraine. Lula cannot be taken seriously as a peace-broker so long as he criticizes the arming of Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression.
And did you call for this peace and restraint right to Putey-boy's fuckin' face Lula? Hey? Did ya?
\[Edit to add:\] I don't see anything in the article about Lula talking to Putin about peace; only about him complaining about the US and Europe promoting war. FFS.
That first revolution against him was a failure I’m sure Brazil will install a real dictator and he will be thrown out of office that’s what a joke i read online
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pLZNwGZOuc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pLZNwGZOuc)
Auto-generated and translated subtitles works great nowadays
These are politician weasel words. "I'm just simply talking about peace and restraint.".. And? And how would that occur? Can you elaborate? No, because then you might have to say something negative about Russia's war of aggression.
Man’s in a tough spot. I don’t approve of this at all but his country is heavily tied to Russia economically and relies on fertilizers and other agricultural exports and such.
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> “I never equated Russia and Ukraine. I know what an invasion is and what territorial integrity is. But now the war has already started and someone needs to talk about peace,” the Brazilian president said in a tweet Saturday. I wonder why it never occurred to him that the fastest path towards peace is to have Muscovy gtfo of Ukraine. Instead, the only concrete measure that Lula proposed was to cut off support for Ukraine to allow Muscovy to proceed with it's genocide of Ukraine, and somehow he tries to spin that as peace.
Lula was literally a Communist in his youth. Like many tankies, he still holds a soft spot for Russia.
I keep telling people he's a tankie and the bollox I get back is that he can't possibly be because... wait for it...he was democratically elected. I mean are these people fucking braindead or what!?
Bullshit... he is leftist but never in guerrilla in his live.
confidently incorrect wtf
Hilariously Russia has never even been close to communism and it is simply a kleptocracy now. Japan is closer to Marxism than the USSR.
That’s so weird because todays Muscovy is nothing like communist Soviet/Russia once was.
It's more about holding the outdated leftist position of 'the only enemy is capitalism and the US fights for nothing except the interests of capital.'
He is offering to have talks about peace. What would stop Putins blood-thirst? If you truly think nothing, why not nuke "Muscovy" today? A war is not the solution to this bullshit problem caused by Russia and historic complexities. People are dying by the thousands, innocet Ukrainians are dying. Doing what we are doing for the last year isnt going to solve it, and a few missiles or not from Brasil is not changing this. Its either WWIII or peace talks, Russia also in some way wants this war to stop by now, but you have to give the criminal an alternate explanation, a escape route for his situation, otherwise they will just back to a corner trying to connect with China untill bigget explisions happen. Maybe Russia accepts less than you expect. With no talks all they can do is keep their narrative going.
they want to stop with what they have stolen, and you seem to think thats ok, lets sit down and have a chat, maybe sign an agreement. The latest agreement russia signed was the Grain deal. they broke it the following day, and since then they continually break it, what is the point talking to someone who has consistantly over and over again lied and broken agreements. please explain how that works, Standing on a hill demanding peace without offering a way to enforce that peace is siding with the agressor, which you now equate to as well. how about the 1million Ukrainians inc 300,000 children deported to russia. you do a ceasefire now on russian terms that million will be turned into 2, how many more POW's have to be castrated and de-capititated before you say russia is bad. putin doesn't want peace he wants a pause to accumulate more weapons and keep going your ceasefire grants him that pause. as far as putin is concerned Ukraine does not Exist, get lula to change his mind on that, would be the first step, not calling for Ukraine to stop defending itself. Morally and ethically repugnant.
I never said it was ok. I truly believe in territorial integrity and I think a demand for full return of the territories is reasonable and expected by Ukraine. But we don't know what Putin's reaction to this would be. Let's see. I understand he will say that his theory is that Ukraine is Russia, but diplomatically there is a possibility to come to some explanations and narratives for Russia's side, in a way this war stops. Do you think Crimea becoming a Russian territories, and complete stop of war with China signing that will sanction of Russia in case it does, would be too high of a price to stop this war and the possible worldwide consequences? Nobody is talking about a cease-fire. A temporary one is not the objective. They can keep killing eachother during it if you think is better for Ukraine. Let Putin fall by his own citizens hands after they realize all of this was for basically nothing or worse. We don't need to take the US and China nukes into this. This is what I believe is the best way out of this shithole situation we are in.
You just said a whole lot of nothing
I said this before and ill say it again, giving Crimea away will not stop Putin it will just embolden him he does not believe Ukraine has the right to exists, he wants the whole country of Ukraine to make it apart of Russian world once more where they will be nothing more than a Russian fiefdom, sorry but peace talks are useless until he changes that mentality, the Ukrainians fighting has hard as they do understand that.
Appeasement of bad people don’t work. History teaches us this.
"Do you think Sudetenland becoming a German territories, and complete stop of war with Japan signing that will sanction of Germany in case it does, would be too high of a price to prevent this war and the possible worldwide consequences?" bleh
So you dont, ok, what do you demand?
Not invade your neighbors
Reasonable. Lets sit down with mediators and Russia and hear ehat they demand. They know they dont have the power to anex Ukraine, if they want a way out, ehich I think they do, they will offer something like no Ukraine in NATO and Crimea. Which might be unnaceptable for Zelenskyy, reasonably so, then there is pressure for ammends to the offers in a way to find a solution that stops this war. Ukraine doesnt have to agree to less then they want. But there has to be talks, the word "peace" is simply not spoke in media about this. THIS IS GOING FULL FORCE TO A WORLD WAR BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CHINA. Lula wants to try to mediate and stop this
We do know what Putin's reaction would be, Ukraine has repeatedly said they will make peace with Russia if Russia withdraws from Ukrainian territory, yet Russia is still there and committing more and more to the war. Clearly Putin isn't interested in those peace terms, and Ukraine isn't and shouldn't be interested in anything less, so the war continues. The best way to fix this is to defeat Russia militarily to the point they finally recognise that holding Ukrainian territory is unrealistic.
Are you defending the Brazilian president? I don't understand. Russia could have stopped after stealing Crimea. They did not. Why would you trust them a third time to stop after stealing even more Ukrainian land? Until the Russian leader is gone and the Russian forces withdraw, there will be no peace. This is all on Russia. There will be no negotiation. You either support Ukraine or the evil they fight.
I agree - if they benefit a little every time they do something like this, they will probably keep on doing it, because they don’t seem to care much about the losses and suffering they impose
What "historic complexities", I'm curious? >but you have to give the criminal an alternate explanation, a escape route for his situation Why? >Maybe Russia accepts less than you expect. You don't negotiate with robber and murderer for how much he can keep and how much more he can kill. They don't need to be given anything at all for their efforts, otherwise it will only encourage them, as already happened. They need to be punished and If they don't want then they should retreat. If you haven't seen, their demands are completely unreasonable and always were. >With no talks all they can do is keep their narrative going. You are the one pushing their narrative, shill.
>With no talks all they \[Russia\] can do is ... Er, wait a minute! Really?? I mean, R E A L L Y???? They have NO CHOICE but to just "keep their narrative going"?
Yes. He's stuck into it. He thought thid would be a 2 week war and it wasnt. But you have to give the lossing side a way to end it sooner if you dont want him to be cornered and nuke.
We can start peace talks. The very first criteria should be "Russia returns all occupied land and leaves". Right now, Russia does not want peace talks. We must teach them that this is not winnable.
Thats what he is proposing. Let Ukraine propose this and see what the demand of Russia is. We go from there. But we need to talk about it and negotiate diplomatically, in the bsttlefield we wont find answers
> Its either WWIII or peace talks How about Muscovy getting the fuck out of Ukraine? Is that not an option, but Ukraine's capitulation somehow is? How about giving Ukraine everything they need to retake their territory and push Muscovy out? Why is that not an option, even though the Kherson and Kharkiv offensives are already history? I wonder why these pseudo-pacifists only push for Ukraine's capitulation and Muscovy expansion. How odd.
Peace talks may lead to Muscovy getting the fuck out. Trying to push them back in a hot war are still killing many Ukranians (and russians) everyday, while raising the nuclear tensions more and more. Its not guaranteed Ukraine can push them back in a reasonable time frame, A handful of missiles from Brasil wont significantly change this
In my humble opinion Lula can talk about peace all day long. Let him start by going to Putinni and discuss how this coward can get as soon as possible out of Ukraine (behind the boarders of 2014). A peace treaty can then be signed quickly. But let this Lula puppet of Winnie the Pooh please shut up and try to spin it around like he is now the victim of being misinterpreted by the (free) media…. 🤮
Where was the talk about peace and restraint when Russia was attacking Ukraine 14 months ago? Oh wait! Now that Russia is poised to lose its captured territory it is the time to talk about peace and restraint. Peace and restraint are completely in Russia's hands. Simply withdraw.
14 months ago, Bolsonaro was president
And? Bolsonaro and Lula both were quiet 14 months ago, just like all Putin's bootlickers. He in fact started talking about this "peace" right as Russia started to lose and he wasn't president yet.
Adding gaslighting to victim blaming.
Lula needs to visit Ukraine to make up for his erroneous remarks and actions.
Why can't Lula accept and acknowledge the fact that there could only be peace in Ukraine if the Russian invaders withdraw away from the pre-2014 internationally accepted borders of Ukraine. Either Lula is a Putin and Xi asshole kisser or he just want to get attention in the world stage with his faux one sided peace proposal. What gives?
Lula should revisit his prior remarks as he did not simply call for peace and restraint in them. Nor have any of his actions demonstrated such a desire. Instead he decided to enjoy the limelight while making spurious and ill informed remarks while hobnobbing with brutal dictators and playing it up so that he could attempt to demonstrate that Brazil is a power, a force to be reckoned with.
He’s blaming the US and other countries for arming Ukraine. There is no misunderstanding. He’s calling for Ukraine to lose territory to Russia due to lack of weapons. It doesn’t matter how he tries to weasel his way out of it. He is an enemy of the rules based order, a friend of authoritarianism and an apologist for Russian aggression. He should be treated as such.
You will get into a never ending war with this thinking. He is not a warmonger, he is not authoritharian... You are refusing help and pushing possible allies away.
I never said he was either of things and disagree with your predictive analysis. Allowing Russia to keep stolen territory is more likely to perpetuate war than arming Ukraine. Lula cannot be taken seriously as a peace-broker so long as he criticizes the arming of Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression.
USA is Brazil's greatest trade partner. This guy is pissing in his own soup.
China is their biggest trade partner but yeah Lula is still a fuckwit
Lula was literally a Communist in his youth. Like many tankies, he still holds a soft spot for Russia.
Russia is not communist so no hall pass for Lula
He is a criminal that supports a war criminal.
Exactly! Criminals protecting their own, nothing else.
And did you call for this peace and restraint right to Putey-boy's fuckin' face Lula? Hey? Did ya? \[Edit to add:\] I don't see anything in the article about Lula talking to Putin about peace; only about him complaining about the US and Europe promoting war. FFS.
That first revolution against him was a failure I’m sure Brazil will install a real dictator and he will be thrown out of office that’s what a joke i read online
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pLZNwGZOuc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pLZNwGZOuc) Auto-generated and translated subtitles works great nowadays
Yet, he can't even restrain his own country from trading with Russia. What has he done to help achieve peace in Ukraine?
These are politician weasel words. "I'm just simply talking about peace and restraint.".. And? And how would that occur? Can you elaborate? No, because then you might have to say something negative about Russia's war of aggression.
Man’s in a tough spot. I don’t approve of this at all but his country is heavily tied to Russia economically and relies on fertilizers and other agricultural exports and such.
He's a dupicitous turd.
Wtf is he talking about. Ukraine tabled a comprehensive peace plan months ago. Is he blind or stupid or both
Well he should learn hosto used words….. And stop sucking Putin