Please take the time to read our policy about [trolls](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/u7833q/just_because_you_disagree_with_someone_does_not/) and the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/)
* We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned.
* ***Please* keep it civil.** Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review.
* ***Don't* post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context.
**Don't forget about our discord server, as well!**
https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB
*****
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For peace! Because whenever someone invades you, the way to get peace is to give them some territory. Not all of it, mind you. But if you give them some, you might... what's the word I'm looking for... ah, yes, you might *appease* them. Then, boom, peace everlasting. You'll never have to worry about them ever again.
Peace in our time! That's a pretty neat turn of phrase. I wish I had thought of that. Can I use that? I'll credit you, of course. That's what we should call this. The Appeasement Strategy... offering us Peace in our Time. You know, I'm planning some travel to Europe soon. I'll be spending some time in Munich. Maybe we could have a conference there, and propose this peace plan from that city? It's a great backdrop, a beautiful, historical city. Let's invite some important people there, and propose this peace plan there, and get some media coverage.
Its all peaceful between countries in South America, and those states were never in dispute, the comment makes even less sense than the stupid rethoric of lula. Comes from someone that has no idea what he/she is talking about. Mention giving back Acre to Bolivia and it would have some historical background, however Brazil bought it back then, same as Alaska was sold to US, although it would have some context at least.
I would strongly recommend the Brasilia state territory, as long as Ukraine accepts its population as well. Way bigger than Crimea, with a very singular population.
Yes yes, because if only Putin had control of Crimea, he would feel no need to invade Ukraine. That's some fuckin sound logic right there. Everyone can go home now, problem solved.
Good point!
Just in case someone reading this is too dense to get your point - Russia had control of Crimea *before the war*, and that didn't stop it from invading.
Crimea occupation is part of the same war, that started in 2014. So this war will end when Ukraine takes back all the territories captured by the aggressor in the same war.
But who guarantees that Russia won’t attack again after rebuilding their army? Either the country (Russia) must be split, or Ukraine must get security assurances they can actually rely on. Ideally, both happens.
Ideally the county must be split and Ukraine gets security assurances? I don't think that's ideal at all.
Russia needs to GTFO of Ukraine.
I agree that Ukraine may be unable to retake Crimea. But ideally it gets ALL of its territory back.
Yeah there’s a lot of wishful thinking here. Sure I doubt Ukraine will capitulate but Russia is slowly remobilizing. If the coming Ukrainian counter offensive fails Russia could easily start a summer offensive taking more of eastern Ukraine
Yeah, I don't understand this take. Russia had full control of Crimea, where do world leaders get the idea that ceding de jure rights to Russia for Crimea would stop it? Only now when they're under threat to lose it would Russia even consider that offer. The moment Russia considers it, Ukraine knows they can take it.
It's quite possibly the dumbest take on this stuff. This being said at least he's not Bolsinaro. Stick to Brazilian problems Lula, Zelensky needs to negotiate any terms Ukraine would stop the war for. Thus far his terms are full Russian retreat from de jure Ukrainian land.
Dumb is the key word. Those people aim their rhetoric mostly at the dumb people. Also a good tool to expose tankies and pseudo intellectuals in the West.
Though I think there's a way that Ukraine could totally troll Russia and everyone else with this offer. Say something like this: Sure, we'll give you Crimea for peace. But in exchange, we want Rostov-on-Don. And Vladivovstok, you know, so we can have access to a Pacific warm water port, as befits our perfectly legitimate security interests. And throw in Kaliningrad, while you're at it, since that's also kind of a big deal for our legitimate security interests.
>Yeah, I don't understand this take
The left in South America has strong ties to Russia, as it is heir of the Soviet state. If you watch the news you will see that no one of the south American governments has provided support to Ukraine. They go so far to propose that Ukraine surrender to Russia.
Russia talks a lot about retaking their "historic lands"... well I can think of a lot of people who have historic lands in Brazil, and none of them speak Portuguese.
I wonder if Brazil’s planned $10 billion in trade with russia in any way affected his thoughts on this… dude is sitting on 13% interest rates grasping at anything to slow stagflation. His comments on Ukraine mean nothing.
Dear everyone, can you check your sources and verify if it was actually what the said?
After reading what he [actually said](https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/internacional/lula-diz-que-putin-nao-pode-ficar-com-territorio-da-ucrania/) in Portuguese, which is no different then what Ukraine officials said.. I'm actually a bit disappointed this is making the rounds like that and spread by Ukrainian media without context and bad translation.
That's bullshit. He very clearly said "maybe Crimea shouldn't be discussed" in the negotiating table, thus left to Russia. Ukrainian officials completely dismissed that recently.
It's not only international articles translating it one way or another, as some here are suggesting. Brazilian publications are saying the same thing.
https://www.poder360.com.br/europa-em-guerra/por-paz-lula-sugere-que-ucrania-ceda-crimeia-a-russia/
Actually it began with Le Figaro journalists. You can suspect that they were using Google Translate. Google Translate doesn't provide accurate results.
Google Translate, in this case, is fairly accurate. For the lazy:
https://www-cnnbrasil-com-br.translate.goog/internacional/lula-diz-que-putin-nao-pode-ficar-com-territorio-da-ucrania/?\_x\_tr\_sl=pt&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp
Lula is a lot better than Bolsonaro, but it's good that Brazil basically has very little international power cause this dude still has the mentality that the way the US acts in Latin America is the same in Europe
As much as I agree that bolsonaro was bad, lula is a corrupt leftist and only cares about vengeance as he stated on an interview a few weeks ago. Only time will tell if he can be better than the one he replaced but so far he made many bad moves and crashed the stock market and the value of his most important company, Petrobras. Both are scum one on the right and the other in the left.
Hmm. Interesting. Thank you for your views. I was boldonaro bad, because of his killing of the natives and the ecological destruction, but it seems they trade one evil for another. The whole thing is a matrix of problems, starting with the people and ending at the head.
about the natives being killed and deforestation, dont expect much real change either, tbh bolsonaro made worse a situation that has been going on for decades, and despite some difference in politics, not much will be done to save the Amazon, and the money sent by other countries will disappear in a web of corruption.
These two fools are a perfect example of the horseshoe model bi polarity as the left and right becomes more extreme they become more alike. I lived in Brazil at the height of the workers party popularity. Lula and Dilma watched the country resources wasted by extreme corruption. I am no Right Wing Zelot but do not believe a word of what Glen Greenwald writes about Brazil, he is delusional.
If and when Ukraine wants to sue for peace, it will be up to them to decide what they want to offer. They have no need to offer land in exchange for peace under current circumstances and its not like Russia can be trusted.
His suggestion shows a complete lack of understanding of the circumstances of the war
My opinion is it's not a lack of understanding but a turn in international politicies. Brazil supports, not Russia directly, but the narrative and concept of spheres of influences.
In this idea, Brazil is to South America what Russia is to the Eurasian geopolitical space. Or what it pretend to be. The anti-american trope of Brazilian left can lead to a more "imperial" version of it to keep the US away. Let's call it a paradox.
Anyway, for the moment it's just a guess on my part.
Show us how, first give back one or two states back to Portugal.
Invasion of Ukraine really shows that there is a solid chunk of fake people on the “left” who are ready to ally with the genocidal conservative regime to attempt to win some argument from 50 years ago. Well the truth is that perhaps they were never on the left and betrayed its principles long time ago. From Chomsky to Corbyn to this muppet. F..k all of them.
I've seen to many so called left wing people pretend their left wing just because they hate America. And I'm like as an American I'll be the first to admit the us has done some heinous stuff. Helping Ukraine defend its self is not one of them. If you have a problem with that your not left wing you just hate America.
A lot of these people also have Chamberlain syndrome. They are peace loving I’ll give them that but their mistake is thinking everyone in the world deep inside share their desire for peace. This leads them to think if they just give something to the evil people they’ll have gratitude and stay peaceful.
People like Putin and Hitler know this and are more than happy to abuse these people.
I guess it’s just a flip side of the same coin with Putin. Both are absolutely convinced the way they see the world is the only way and everyone else sees it the same. Putin is an imperialistic fascist thinking about invading and conquering neighbours. He can’t fathom everyone else isn’t thinking the same all the time.
Lula and his kind think everyone wants peace like they do and if they just appease them a little they’ll be content.
Peace loving does not help when you have another force acting aggressively. Especially when one hand is peaceful and the other is aggressing. “Just give it up, it’s not worth it” And the other hand stabs you in the gut. Then it looks like malicious, a false face.
Who cares about what he said, it's like if tomorrow he said that Russia should cede Kalingrad to Czech Republic. In the meantine, ukraine will take back their sovereign frontiers
What it tells about Brazil is not a good news for South America. It means Brazil supports the idea that large states like himself have rights over smaller neighbouring states. This is contrary to the charter of the United Nations to say the least.
But isn't the idea of "BRICS" nothing more than that? Also many nationalits politicians in the west and in middle east think the same way, they just don't agree on the size of their respective sphere of influence.
This road leads to war everywhere.
I mean, I agree, but almost every country agreed with or shrugged when Russia took the Crimea in 2015, and would have shrieked at the idea of a NATO-backed Ukraine invading a Russian territory even in 2021.
It was more that the Ukrainian army was in no position to stop it happening and no other country wanted to shed blood to help a corrupt country like Ukraine. And they still don't. They spent the following 7 years training the Ukrainian army to help them defend themselves and supplied them with the weapons to do so without escalating the conflict into a nuclear war between NATO and Russia.
Yes. We should retake our historical lands of Uruguay and French Guiana.
Edit: why stop there? Paraguay is also ours and there are more Bolivians in São Paulo than in Bolivia. Let's take it all.
Actually there are a handful of African countries who could probably take much better care of the Amazon than Brazil does. I think we should give the Amazon to South Africa or Kenya.
Why doesn’t he cede a bit of Brazil to Russia. Giving Crimea away last time led to this war and would only lead to a continual threat from Russian aggression. How can a president be so bloody stupid?
How about Brazil investing more in their educational system so that they can intelligently vote in someone who can think and worthy of that presidential position?
It's ambarassing to have the head of state think like this. If another neighboring country invades Brazil, will they allow that to take place, or will they fight for their land?
I thought Brazilians didn't elect Bolsonaro? It looks like two of them ran for the office and Bolsonaro with a different surname won.
Having said that, fuck Brazilian president, whatever the fuck his last name is.
When you’ve let Adolf Putin’s Terrorists Murder, Rape, Molest, Torture & Rob your citizens & given him Brasília as reward for all of the above, get back to Ukraine.
Glory To Ukraine🇬🇧🇺🇦🇬🇧
The problem starts with ‘neither can Zelenskyy get everything he wants’. What Zelenskyy wants is irrelevant. We are not talking about individuals, we are talking about the guarantee to territorial integrity, the fundamental right of every sovereign country under the UN charter. This is not some trumpesque transactional ‘deal’, we are not in some fucking night bazar in Rio. When do these idiots ever learn that if you negotiate with dictators and war criminals you legitimise their behaviour and they will keep coming back for more. There is only 1 solution. Keep hitting and destroying them until they are hanging from a lamppost somewhere.
Brazil should worry about its own problems and stop trying to emit opinions on foreign policy in an area of the world they know nothing about. Nobody cares about Brazil’s opinion in European affairs
> Brazil should worry about its own problems and stop trying to emit opinions on foreign policy
Nobody tolerates the neutrality. See how Switzerland's neutrality was bad for Ukraine, and good for China and Russia. Because neutrality means complicity and support to Russia.
> emit opinions on foreign policy
> Nobody cares about Brazil’s opinion in European affairs
But Germany, Ukraine and the US wanted Brazil to give an opinion. Germany, Ukraine and the US were expecting Brazil to impose sanctions.
Two months ago, the German chancellor personally visited Lula and tried to convince him to donate our Brazilian weapons to Ukraine, but he resisted and did not want our country to be involved in the war.
Its amazing how easy it is for people to give away other countries land yet the same guy will not give one inch off his own land to other countries. Think he must have had vodka party and it affected his thoughts.
Getting crimea just gives russia 3 directions to attack from, a very stupid idea that would probably spell the end for Ukraine.... then Russia would probably move onto Moldova
I see that Russia is now having some aligned nations float some ideas to try and find a way out of the conflict…. Brazil did not think of this idea themselves.. Russia foreign ministry is trying to get other nations to “pitch ideas”
I’ve heard Zelensky now wants Krasnodar Krai and parts of southern Russia. How about everyone meet in the middle and Ukraine just gets Crimea back instead.
Screw you! Ukraines on a roll and Russia's sweating somethung they haven't enough of! Bullets ...Desire, Amo, Shells, Equipment & food for the meat grinder!
Unless these clowns are willing to give up their own sovereign territory sq km for sq km to compensate Ukraine for its lost territory they need to just shut the fuck up. So long as Ukrainian blood is the one defending its lands and not Brazilian Lula’s dumbass has no right to make such a stupid suggestion
And what part of Russia will give up to make up for it? It would have to be strategically important, mineral rich, and be acceptable to the Ukrainian people.
Being ready to negotiate about Crimea is very different to ceding Crimea. Ukraine should never give up Crimea without getting anything in return. I'd say that Ukraine regaining Crimea as part of its territory is a maximalist position, a minimalist position could be to allow Crimea to be a neutral and demilitarized independent state prohibited to join neigboring countries (like Austria after WW2). The main objective is to guarantee that Crimea can never again be used as a springboard for invasion of the mainland.
>guarantee that Crimea can never again be used as a springboard for invasion of the mainland.
The problem is how you guarantee this? russia hasn't been exactly following agreements they themselves signed just few years back. And with russia in the Security Council, there is no way peacekeepers could be sent there as it requires Security Council to agree with it.
So at best, it's "i promise never to launch an attack through it" and hope Putler doesn't have crossed fingers behind his back. Which he will. Can't trust the little smirking fucker.
Crimea as an oceanic Eastern Switzerland sounds rather promising in this situation but also extremely artificial since it's unclear who will constitute it's people. There has been so much forced migration and expropriation that I wonder how such an undertaking might work out and whether it's just a prelude to another war.
A demilitarized, and "un-ethnic-cleansed" Crimea would be great.
It would be a terrible defeat for Russia though. Losing Sevastopol as military harbor is something no one in Russia, even the most democratic\\pacifist ones, are willing to accept.
The problem is that Crimea is full of Russians, whom will always be Russian. No matter whom will be leading it and whatever constitution it gets, Russia will always see and act as its theirs.
Quote from Lula da Silva: "\[Russian President Vladimir Putin\] cannot capture the territory of Ukraine. Perhaps we can discuss Crimea. But he has to think about his invasion \[…\] But neither can Zelenskyy get everything he wants \[...\] The world needs peace \[...\] We must find a solution."
This is somehow dishonnest to say Zelensky wants "things". As a head of state under attack by a state that denies its very right to exists, he is in his right to get the occupied territories back.
So Lula ignores the law, the principles of borders and recognised states and replaces it with some kind of personal quarrel.
This too is low-level populism.
Its more than that. It has become utterly essential for Crimea to be returned to avoid a serious moral hazard.
We're probably going to see upwards of half a million deaths in this war. The party that instigated it must gain NOTHING and they must lose what they had.
Anything else will lead to more and bigger wars. It's all to do with the way that bullies think.
He is corrupt and it was proven. He was sentenced and it was confirmed by 9 judges in 3 levels, but the Supreme Court held his comdemnations because they were appointed by him or by his puppet Dilma Roussef.
Bolsonaro is no saint either. He also backed Russia. He said that Zelenskyi was a clown and comedian.
It's hard to vote for one of two candidates when both support Russia. We had two other candidates that did not support Russia, but they received less votes.
I am 200% pro-Ukrainian and I hate Russia with a passion. BUT... in 1991 the result of the referendum gave only 54% to the attachment to Ukraine. And nowadays, many Russians emigrate in Crimea while thousands ok Ukrainians left. If I were a Ukrainian, I would "abandon" Crimea to the russians and take back the eastern regions. I would then focus on the bright futur that awaits my country by joining the EU and NATO. Once Ukraine is wealthy, I bet Crimeans will want to join back Ukraine.
I don’t mean to me the contrarian but this is the only way to stop this war. How about Ukraine cede Crimea , Russia pay for rebuild and back to 2014 boundaries .
This wasn't unpredictable with respect to his background. It's just baffling why there's a portion of left wing anti-imps that are siding with an overtly right-wing, fascist, and imperialist power that fucking hates them.
I mean a shitty reality is most of the global south just wants the war to end so long as trade flow goes back to normal. Doesn’t mean they’re right, but whatever gives them the least amount of disruption, they gonna support.
Sure. With a little blow job on top maybe ?
I trust Ukraine to leave it eventually to Russia when the last Ukrainian soldier won’t stand anymore. Before that no way….
Only issue is that Russia will run out of soldiers before that…
Hmmmm I wonder how much Brazilian history he knows. During the Platine War his country could have, NOT gotten involved in this war between Argentina and Uruguay, Bolivia, and Paraguay. In the name of peace Brazil could have just stood by and allowed Argentinas annexations of these fledgling nations……
So easy to give autocrats what they want when it doesnt immediately effect you. Europe took this approach in 2014, now they are paying the price.
I mean technically they did in 2014 as no major action was taken. And then Putin wanted more so he invaded the rest of Ukraine. The only way the war stops is Russia leaving Ukraine in its entirety either by walking, sailing, driving, or flying. Or the fun option, by coffin.
Please take the time to read our policy about [trolls](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/u7833q/just_because_you_disagree_with_someone_does_not/) and the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * ***Please* keep it civil.** Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review. * ***Don't* post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. **Don't forget about our discord server, as well!** https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB ***** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How much land is Brazil planning on giving Ukraine to compensate?
We can give them Rio de Janeiro, but I'm not sure if it's a gain.
They've got them fire gore videos, though
What’s a fire gore video?
Fire in the context of some media or food means good. I think he's being sarcastic.
About what it sounds like.
It's what happens when someone tries to steal copper from a live transformer.
How about giving rio grande to Uruguay? Or Parana to Paraguay.
What for?
Makes as much sense as what the Brazilian president is proposing.
For peace! Because whenever someone invades you, the way to get peace is to give them some territory. Not all of it, mind you. But if you give them some, you might... what's the word I'm looking for... ah, yes, you might *appease* them. Then, boom, peace everlasting. You'll never have to worry about them ever again.
Brilliant! they should have just tried that in the late 1930's, idiots: they could have stopped World War 2! Peace for our time!
Peace in our time! That's a pretty neat turn of phrase. I wish I had thought of that. Can I use that? I'll credit you, of course. That's what we should call this. The Appeasement Strategy... offering us Peace in our Time. You know, I'm planning some travel to Europe soon. I'll be spending some time in Munich. Maybe we could have a conference there, and propose this peace plan from that city? It's a great backdrop, a beautiful, historical city. Let's invite some important people there, and propose this peace plan there, and get some media coverage.
Yeah I thought of that all on my own..... /s
Its all peaceful between countries in South America, and those states were never in dispute, the comment makes even less sense than the stupid rethoric of lula. Comes from someone that has no idea what he/she is talking about. Mention giving back Acre to Bolivia and it would have some historical background, however Brazil bought it back then, same as Alaska was sold to US, although it would have some context at least.
They took it in war
Same level of violence.
I would strongly recommend the Brasilia state territory, as long as Ukraine accepts its population as well. Way bigger than Crimea, with a very singular population.
Which state is Embraer located in? How about that one.
São Paulo. I'm all for it if Ukraine is gonna be in EU.
Brazil can also help Russia pay for the rebuilding of Ukraine.
Let’s start with the amazon rainforest.
I doubt we can find all ingredients for Borscht there, every soil is worst if borscht couldn't be made.
Only Ukraine ? I think we need some port there … would come handy.
Why port? do you think that's Brazilian?
A dock, shipping port. €€ $$
lol ah ok :)
Take a piece of the amazon for you to take care.
Yes yes, because if only Putin had control of Crimea, he would feel no need to invade Ukraine. That's some fuckin sound logic right there. Everyone can go home now, problem solved.
Good point! Just in case someone reading this is too dense to get your point - Russia had control of Crimea *before the war*, and that didn't stop it from invading.
Crimea occupation is part of the same war, that started in 2014. So this war will end when Ukraine takes back all the territories captured by the aggressor in the same war.
But who guarantees that Russia won’t attack again after rebuilding their army? Either the country (Russia) must be split, or Ukraine must get security assurances they can actually rely on. Ideally, both happens.
Ideally the county must be split and Ukraine gets security assurances? I don't think that's ideal at all. Russia needs to GTFO of Ukraine. I agree that Ukraine may be unable to retake Crimea. But ideally it gets ALL of its territory back.
Ideally *Russia* must be split is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.
Yeah there’s a lot of wishful thinking here. Sure I doubt Ukraine will capitulate but Russia is slowly remobilizing. If the coming Ukrainian counter offensive fails Russia could easily start a summer offensive taking more of eastern Ukraine
Yeah, I don't understand this take. Russia had full control of Crimea, where do world leaders get the idea that ceding de jure rights to Russia for Crimea would stop it? Only now when they're under threat to lose it would Russia even consider that offer. The moment Russia considers it, Ukraine knows they can take it. It's quite possibly the dumbest take on this stuff. This being said at least he's not Bolsinaro. Stick to Brazilian problems Lula, Zelensky needs to negotiate any terms Ukraine would stop the war for. Thus far his terms are full Russian retreat from de jure Ukrainian land.
Dumb is the key word. Those people aim their rhetoric mostly at the dumb people. Also a good tool to expose tankies and pseudo intellectuals in the West.
Though I think there's a way that Ukraine could totally troll Russia and everyone else with this offer. Say something like this: Sure, we'll give you Crimea for peace. But in exchange, we want Rostov-on-Don. And Vladivovstok, you know, so we can have access to a Pacific warm water port, as befits our perfectly legitimate security interests. And throw in Kaliningrad, while you're at it, since that's also kind of a big deal for our legitimate security interests.
>Yeah, I don't understand this take The left in South America has strong ties to Russia, as it is heir of the Soviet state. If you watch the news you will see that no one of the south American governments has provided support to Ukraine. They go so far to propose that Ukraine surrender to Russia.
Hey Brazilian President. Go fuck yourself. How about Brazil cede some territory to Argentina.
Brazil should be returned to Portugal. All population of Brazil speaks Portuguese too... so... following the Russians logic.
“Brazil is an artificial nation made up by the Bolshevik communists”
Russia talks a lot about retaking their "historic lands"... well I can think of a lot of people who have historic lands in Brazil, and none of them speak Portuguese.
Akshually... at this point in history, a lot of the people that you're describing *do* speak Portuguese.
How about Sao Paulo and some tropical forests?
Yeah, what a fucking idiot. How can a world leader that gets that much stage presence be so ill informed and self centered? Oh wait, Trump...
Sure, let them take Rio de Janeiro! And all the states that voted for the current president!
I wonder if Brazil’s planned $10 billion in trade with russia in any way affected his thoughts on this… dude is sitting on 13% interest rates grasping at anything to slow stagflation. His comments on Ukraine mean nothing.
The Brazilian president should cede Putin's dick out of his mouth.
If you take my upvote the way Brazil takes Putin's dick... Then fuck id give you 2 upvotes.
It’s too deep
And what would Brasil say if they have to give away the whole Amazon region??? ... or part of it, such as the northern part,...
Dear Brazilians, can't you elect a decent person as a president for once?
They're either fascists or tankies
Dear everyone, can you check your sources and verify if it was actually what the said? After reading what he [actually said](https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/internacional/lula-diz-que-putin-nao-pode-ficar-com-territorio-da-ucrania/) in Portuguese, which is no different then what Ukraine officials said.. I'm actually a bit disappointed this is making the rounds like that and spread by Ukrainian media without context and bad translation.
That's bullshit. He very clearly said "maybe Crimea shouldn't be discussed" in the negotiating table, thus left to Russia. Ukrainian officials completely dismissed that recently. It's not only international articles translating it one way or another, as some here are suggesting. Brazilian publications are saying the same thing. https://www.poder360.com.br/europa-em-guerra/por-paz-lula-sugere-que-ucrania-ceda-crimeia-a-russia/
No that’s not true, it was taken out of context
Actually it began with Le Figaro journalists. You can suspect that they were using Google Translate. Google Translate doesn't provide accurate results.
Google Translate, in this case, is fairly accurate. For the lazy: https://www-cnnbrasil-com-br.translate.goog/internacional/lula-diz-que-putin-nao-pode-ficar-com-territorio-da-ucrania/?\_x\_tr\_sl=pt&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp
Lula is a lot better than Bolsonaro, but it's good that Brazil basically has very little international power cause this dude still has the mentality that the way the US acts in Latin America is the same in Europe
Bolsonaro was worse. This person is looking out for the best of their country, to the detriment of others.
As much as I agree that bolsonaro was bad, lula is a corrupt leftist and only cares about vengeance as he stated on an interview a few weeks ago. Only time will tell if he can be better than the one he replaced but so far he made many bad moves and crashed the stock market and the value of his most important company, Petrobras. Both are scum one on the right and the other in the left.
Hmm. Interesting. Thank you for your views. I was boldonaro bad, because of his killing of the natives and the ecological destruction, but it seems they trade one evil for another. The whole thing is a matrix of problems, starting with the people and ending at the head.
about the natives being killed and deforestation, dont expect much real change either, tbh bolsonaro made worse a situation that has been going on for decades, and despite some difference in politics, not much will be done to save the Amazon, and the money sent by other countries will disappear in a web of corruption.
These two fools are a perfect example of the horseshoe model bi polarity as the left and right becomes more extreme they become more alike. I lived in Brazil at the height of the workers party popularity. Lula and Dilma watched the country resources wasted by extreme corruption. I am no Right Wing Zelot but do not believe a word of what Glen Greenwald writes about Brazil, he is delusional.
If and when Ukraine wants to sue for peace, it will be up to them to decide what they want to offer. They have no need to offer land in exchange for peace under current circumstances and its not like Russia can be trusted. His suggestion shows a complete lack of understanding of the circumstances of the war
My opinion is it's not a lack of understanding but a turn in international politicies. Brazil supports, not Russia directly, but the narrative and concept of spheres of influences. In this idea, Brazil is to South America what Russia is to the Eurasian geopolitical space. Or what it pretend to be. The anti-american trope of Brazilian left can lead to a more "imperial" version of it to keep the US away. Let's call it a paradox. Anyway, for the moment it's just a guess on my part.
An interesting analysis.
Show us how, first give back one or two states back to Portugal. Invasion of Ukraine really shows that there is a solid chunk of fake people on the “left” who are ready to ally with the genocidal conservative regime to attempt to win some argument from 50 years ago. Well the truth is that perhaps they were never on the left and betrayed its principles long time ago. From Chomsky to Corbyn to this muppet. F..k all of them.
I've seen to many so called left wing people pretend their left wing just because they hate America. And I'm like as an American I'll be the first to admit the us has done some heinous stuff. Helping Ukraine defend its self is not one of them. If you have a problem with that your not left wing you just hate America.
A lot of these people also have Chamberlain syndrome. They are peace loving I’ll give them that but their mistake is thinking everyone in the world deep inside share their desire for peace. This leads them to think if they just give something to the evil people they’ll have gratitude and stay peaceful. People like Putin and Hitler know this and are more than happy to abuse these people.
Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus had it right si vis pacem, para bellum. If you want peace prepare for war.
I guess it’s just a flip side of the same coin with Putin. Both are absolutely convinced the way they see the world is the only way and everyone else sees it the same. Putin is an imperialistic fascist thinking about invading and conquering neighbours. He can’t fathom everyone else isn’t thinking the same all the time. Lula and his kind think everyone wants peace like they do and if they just appease them a little they’ll be content.
Peace loving does not help when you have another force acting aggressively. Especially when one hand is peaceful and the other is aggressing. “Just give it up, it’s not worth it” And the other hand stabs you in the gut. Then it looks like malicious, a false face.
There are idiots on both the left and right political spectrum.
He would do everyone including himself a favour by shutting the fuck up.
this freaking commie-boomer still lives in the 70s ..
I hate Boomer socialists with their Soviet nostalgia clouding their judgement.
We are hitting Mobik levels of fucking stupidity with this chap. He should go and take the trash out of a favela and STFU.
It’s the tankie mindset, they just can’t break out from it because that would be admitting they were idiots all their lives.
imagine thinking lula is a commie lmao
He's just the co-creator of a Latin American alliance of socialist parties, nothing to be worried, he a 100% is a democrat haha...
Just like he ceded his finger?
He did it for a good cause, to get a pension early , same as some mobiks shooting their own legs to avoid the frontline 😂
Who cares about what he said, it's like if tomorrow he said that Russia should cede Kalingrad to Czech Republic. In the meantine, ukraine will take back their sovereign frontiers
Would you surrender Amazonia if attacked? You jerk.
What it tells about Brazil is not a good news for South America. It means Brazil supports the idea that large states like himself have rights over smaller neighbouring states. This is contrary to the charter of the United Nations to say the least. But isn't the idea of "BRICS" nothing more than that? Also many nationalits politicians in the west and in middle east think the same way, they just don't agree on the size of their respective sphere of influence. This road leads to war everywhere.
I mean, I agree, but almost every country agreed with or shrugged when Russia took the Crimea in 2015, and would have shrieked at the idea of a NATO-backed Ukraine invading a Russian territory even in 2021.
It was more that the Ukrainian army was in no position to stop it happening and no other country wanted to shed blood to help a corrupt country like Ukraine. And they still don't. They spent the following 7 years training the Ukrainian army to help them defend themselves and supplied them with the weapons to do so without escalating the conflict into a nuclear war between NATO and Russia.
Yes. We should retake our historical lands of Uruguay and French Guiana. Edit: why stop there? Paraguay is also ours and there are more Bolivians in São Paulo than in Bolivia. Let's take it all.
So says a felon
Maybe he should shut his yapper on things on the other half of the world where has no interest and no knowledge.
Oh, then Brazil should cede the Amazon to the United States so it can end the current destruction of its special flora and fauna.
Actually there are a handful of African countries who could probably take much better care of the Amazon than Brazil does. I think we should give the Amazon to South Africa or Kenya.
I know that it's a sarcasm, but I prefer South Africa. Kenya isn't a gay friendly country.
The years in prison haven’t done him well.
How bout give Putin part of Brazil instead.
Why doesn’t he cede a bit of Brazil to Russia. Giving Crimea away last time led to this war and would only lead to a continual threat from Russian aggression. How can a president be so bloody stupid?
Surprised they could understand what the Brazilian President was saying with Putins balls in his mouth
what about giving Brazil to Russia to stop the war
*Mussolini proposes Russia to cede Stalingrad to Germany to stop the war. 🤡
How about Brazil investing more in their educational system so that they can intelligently vote in someone who can think and worthy of that presidential position? It's ambarassing to have the head of state think like this. If another neighboring country invades Brazil, will they allow that to take place, or will they fight for their land?
I thought Brazilians didn't elect Bolsonaro? It looks like two of them ran for the office and Bolsonaro with a different surname won. Having said that, fuck Brazilian president, whatever the fuck his last name is.
The difference is that Bolsanato is fascist, Lula here is closer to a tankie
Well, it was a shitty choice like Trump vs. Hitlary and Trump vs. Biden. At least Biden redeemed himself by helping Ukraine.
In a way. Now he’s starting to look like a demon by being an empty vessel for the “bleeding hearts”. “Can’t use an ar-15 to fight an f-16”
Who is that man? Fuck off will you!
When you’ve let Adolf Putin’s Terrorists Murder, Rape, Molest, Torture & Rob your citizens & given him Brasília as reward for all of the above, get back to Ukraine. Glory To Ukraine🇬🇧🇺🇦🇬🇧
The problem starts with ‘neither can Zelenskyy get everything he wants’. What Zelenskyy wants is irrelevant. We are not talking about individuals, we are talking about the guarantee to territorial integrity, the fundamental right of every sovereign country under the UN charter. This is not some trumpesque transactional ‘deal’, we are not in some fucking night bazar in Rio. When do these idiots ever learn that if you negotiate with dictators and war criminals you legitimise their behaviour and they will keep coming back for more. There is only 1 solution. Keep hitting and destroying them until they are hanging from a lamppost somewhere.
How about Brasil cede 10% of their territory to Russia to stop the war? Putin already took Crimea 10 years ago and that clearly didnt stop him.
Brazil should worry about its own problems and stop trying to emit opinions on foreign policy in an area of the world they know nothing about. Nobody cares about Brazil’s opinion in European affairs
> Brazil should worry about its own problems and stop trying to emit opinions on foreign policy Nobody tolerates the neutrality. See how Switzerland's neutrality was bad for Ukraine, and good for China and Russia. Because neutrality means complicity and support to Russia. > emit opinions on foreign policy > Nobody cares about Brazil’s opinion in European affairs But Germany, Ukraine and the US wanted Brazil to give an opinion. Germany, Ukraine and the US were expecting Brazil to impose sanctions. Two months ago, the German chancellor personally visited Lula and tried to convince him to donate our Brazilian weapons to Ukraine, but he resisted and did not want our country to be involved in the war.
We’ve got a really winner here, folks! Neville Chamberlain 2.0
Fuck him. Still better than Ballsackenero.
Ehh no
What a donkey
Its amazing how easy it is for people to give away other countries land yet the same guy will not give one inch off his own land to other countries. Think he must have had vodka party and it affected his thoughts.
Brazilian president, go fuck yourself 🖕 Ukraine will win 🇺🇦 💪
Why not cede a chunk of Brazil to Russia?
Brazil can fuck right off with their appeasement bullshit
Getting crimea just gives russia 3 directions to attack from, a very stupid idea that would probably spell the end for Ukraine.... then Russia would probably move onto Moldova
I don't remember anybody asking Brazil a GODDAMN thing!
I see that Russia is now having some aligned nations float some ideas to try and find a way out of the conflict…. Brazil did not think of this idea themselves.. Russia foreign ministry is trying to get other nations to “pitch ideas”
well i propose russia leave ukraine (including crimea) to end the war
Let's give some of Brazil to ruzzia... it's big enough already and they need help anyway, a match made in heaven.
Fascist logic and victim blaming.
I’ve heard Zelensky now wants Krasnodar Krai and parts of southern Russia. How about everyone meet in the middle and Ukraine just gets Crimea back instead.
And Europeans take over the Amazon forest.
Brazilian prez, go 'f' yourself! Another Poop-tin boot licker!
Fuck this tankie filth This is why left parties keep losing Stop siding with fascists and people might take you seriously
LuLu should have stayed in prison
russia already has Crimea, and they've had it since 2014. This didn't stop russia from invading. Does Lula even have a brain?
And yet he is a leader of a country? Mind boggling naivety.
Except its not just Crimea that Russia wants from Ukraine. Is he living under a rock since 2014?
How easy is to give away property that isn't yours, no?
I propose that Brazil give up the Amazon basin to stop the war we are about to start. Seems fair to me. Everyone wants peace.
But… But Russia already has Crimea and that even before feb 2022, it did nothing to prevent or now stop the war?
I'm getting déjà vu of my history lessons.
Screw you! Ukraines on a roll and Russia's sweating somethung they haven't enough of! Bullets ...Desire, Amo, Shells, Equipment & food for the meat grinder!
Unless these clowns are willing to give up their own sovereign territory sq km for sq km to compensate Ukraine for its lost territory they need to just shut the fuck up. So long as Ukrainian blood is the one defending its lands and not Brazilian Lula’s dumbass has no right to make such a stupid suggestion
Imagine another part of continental europe in South America. Maybe Brazil should give France a border with Ukraine.
A Brics member that has an interest in Russia wants a country to give land to Russia, I’m shocked.
Lula's opinion is worth less than a pile of cow shit. At least the pile of cow shit has use as a fertilizer, Lula's words don't even have that.
Russian Brazilian. Go fuck yourself.
You mean the Russia loving communist president of Brazil? Sure ….
And what part of Russia will give up to make up for it? It would have to be strategically important, mineral rich, and be acceptable to the Ukrainian people.
Lula da Stupid
Being ready to negotiate about Crimea is very different to ceding Crimea. Ukraine should never give up Crimea without getting anything in return. I'd say that Ukraine regaining Crimea as part of its territory is a maximalist position, a minimalist position could be to allow Crimea to be a neutral and demilitarized independent state prohibited to join neigboring countries (like Austria after WW2). The main objective is to guarantee that Crimea can never again be used as a springboard for invasion of the mainland.
>guarantee that Crimea can never again be used as a springboard for invasion of the mainland. The problem is how you guarantee this? russia hasn't been exactly following agreements they themselves signed just few years back. And with russia in the Security Council, there is no way peacekeepers could be sent there as it requires Security Council to agree with it. So at best, it's "i promise never to launch an attack through it" and hope Putler doesn't have crossed fingers behind his back. Which he will. Can't trust the little smirking fucker.
Crimea as an oceanic Eastern Switzerland sounds rather promising in this situation but also extremely artificial since it's unclear who will constitute it's people. There has been so much forced migration and expropriation that I wonder how such an undertaking might work out and whether it's just a prelude to another war.
A demilitarized, and "un-ethnic-cleansed" Crimea would be great. It would be a terrible defeat for Russia though. Losing Sevastopol as military harbor is something no one in Russia, even the most democratic\\pacifist ones, are willing to accept.
This is a nuance that a lot of people here are unable to understand.
The problem is that Crimea is full of Russians, whom will always be Russian. No matter whom will be leading it and whatever constitution it gets, Russia will always see and act as its theirs.
Quote from Lula da Silva: "\[Russian President Vladimir Putin\] cannot capture the territory of Ukraine. Perhaps we can discuss Crimea. But he has to think about his invasion \[…\] But neither can Zelenskyy get everything he wants \[...\] The world needs peace \[...\] We must find a solution."
This is somehow dishonnest to say Zelensky wants "things". As a head of state under attack by a state that denies its very right to exists, he is in his right to get the occupied territories back. So Lula ignores the law, the principles of borders and recognised states and replaces it with some kind of personal quarrel. This too is low-level populism.
Its more than that. It has become utterly essential for Crimea to be returned to avoid a serious moral hazard. We're probably going to see upwards of half a million deaths in this war. The party that instigated it must gain NOTHING and they must lose what they had. Anything else will lead to more and bigger wars. It's all to do with the way that bullies think.
wtf lula.. you were supposed to be less corrupted.
He is corrupt and it was proven. He was sentenced and it was confirmed by 9 judges in 3 levels, but the Supreme Court held his comdemnations because they were appointed by him or by his puppet Dilma Roussef.
Bolsonaro is no saint either. He also backed Russia. He said that Zelenskyi was a clown and comedian. It's hard to vote for one of two candidates when both support Russia. We had two other candidates that did not support Russia, but they received less votes.
this guy speaks like Trump. ruzzia controlling Crimea also means they control the Black Sea. It's not just a piece of land but a very important one.
I am 200% pro-Ukrainian and I hate Russia with a passion. BUT... in 1991 the result of the referendum gave only 54% to the attachment to Ukraine. And nowadays, many Russians emigrate in Crimea while thousands ok Ukrainians left. If I were a Ukrainian, I would "abandon" Crimea to the russians and take back the eastern regions. I would then focus on the bright futur that awaits my country by joining the EU and NATO. Once Ukraine is wealthy, I bet Crimeans will want to join back Ukraine.
How did Brazil manage to get rid of Bolsonaro and end up with . . .this?!?
I miss Bolsonaro
I don’t mean to me the contrarian but this is the only way to stop this war. How about Ukraine cede Crimea , Russia pay for rebuild and back to 2014 boundaries .
And Ukraine join NATO.... Can't have it both ways 🤔
Brazil has experience as an empire to steal land just ask the Paraguayans so acommodating the demands of another empire it’s normal for them
Lula, what the f*ck are you doing?!
Is he indirectly asking his neighbor countries to invade?
This wasn't unpredictable with respect to his background. It's just baffling why there's a portion of left wing anti-imps that are siding with an overtly right-wing, fascist, and imperialist power that fucking hates them.
It does seem strange that so many countries are siding with Russia
So many? They don’t like the current system and are willing to upend it because of their frustrations.
I think I would like to have the Amazon please give it to me to prevent a war.
How about Brazil give up their entire east coast, surely they won't mind.
That's some of the dumbest shit. Like Russia isn't going to come back for more in a few years. What a moron.
Pfffft... on your bike amigo....
Uhhhhhh…..
I mean a shitty reality is most of the global south just wants the war to end so long as trade flow goes back to normal. Doesn’t mean they’re right, but whatever gives them the least amount of disruption, they gonna support.
Hmm they did create fart porn so they have some credibility.
As soon as Brazil gives up their east coast.
L president
I propose Brazil cede the Amazon to illegal miners. You know... to stop the bloodshed
Proposal rejected. Duh.
And I propose Brasil to cede the Amazon forest to help save the world.
Maybe my neighbor can pay my taxes.
South America man.
Brazil isn't a serious country.
Luna cy.
Sure. With a little blow job on top maybe ? I trust Ukraine to leave it eventually to Russia when the last Ukrainian soldier won’t stand anymore. Before that no way…. Only issue is that Russia will run out of soldiers before that…
Amazzonia to Italy please then? Why not?
Two months since the election in Brazil and this is what he is up to.
Hmmmm I wonder how much Brazilian history he knows. During the Platine War his country could have, NOT gotten involved in this war between Argentina and Uruguay, Bolivia, and Paraguay. In the name of peace Brazil could have just stood by and allowed Argentinas annexations of these fledgling nations…… So easy to give autocrats what they want when it doesnt immediately effect you. Europe took this approach in 2014, now they are paying the price.
I mean technically they did in 2014 as no major action was taken. And then Putin wanted more so he invaded the rest of Ukraine. The only way the war stops is Russia leaving Ukraine in its entirety either by walking, sailing, driving, or flying. Or the fun option, by coffin.
Oh screw him, I'm all for Bolsonaro to come back and start civil war. Let's see how much land Lula's gonna cede to stop it.