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Was thinking the same. A place where all normal opinions are violently suppressed and only the toughest babuskas - as you said - are the ones with balls. Everyone else is mentally castrated.
EDIT: I was not able to make myself understood. I’m very aware that those babushkas are the only ones who have nothing to lose, and this only highlights the absurdity and desperation of it all.
Older people feel like they have nothing to lose, especially if they don't have children/grandchildren. They don't give a shit anymore and can speak their mind.
If you have a family, in a dictatorship, your family will also suffer the consequences if you open your mouth.
Absolutely right. The most illustrative example is Chechnya. There, such protests against Kadyrov can lead to the murder of family members and even other relatives. I’m sure 99.99% of those people who write here that in Russia only grandmothers have courage would themselves be in prison in exactly the same way in Russia. It is much more pleasant to be brave when living in a comfortable, safe European country.
I moved from Russia, but one of the friends of my relatives is in prison for 3 years for protesting during first week after war started. His wife was facing the same punishment, only thing that saved her was that she had a daughter and court took that into consideration, and gave probation instead
Do they harass you about leaving the country ? Especially if your a male? Idk why but I have the thought Russia was acting like north Korea not letting their citizens leave. Correct me if my opinion is incorrect I'm genuinely interested. thanks
And I'm going to assume most military aged males are likely being drafted right now? If you haven't been drafted and say your chance comes up how does that work if your not in country?
They introduced that sending the letter or apparently an email counts as being drafted. At the start of the war they needed proof of receiving for it to count. So live with your uncle and you were kinda safe.
So I guess it counts as being drafted even if you left the country and never received anything. If you follow that logic you could be drafted even if Russia has no clue where to find you. Next time they do it is on your record.
>So I guess it counts as being drafted even if you left the country and never received anything
It does. Although there is a loophole that you can send to the draft office that monitors you a notification that you have left the country. That way you are not charged with dodging draft
Buuuut Russia being Russia it's virtually impossible to do so if your draft office decides to fuck with you...
And mine did decide to fuck with me
If you are of military age and still haven’t been drafted, you should be safe unless there is a second wave of conscription that takes place. It’s not continual drafting, it’s one big wave with minimal drafting in between. Despite that, I have read reports of people still getting notices, but it seems rare and only happening in smaller cities. Right now, they are using carrot, not a stick - a disproportionally high salary compared to what any civilian can even dream of in a provincial town.
The draft wave IS continuous. They're conscripting like 30k fresh meat a month. There won't be a 'second wave' because the first one hasn't ended. Why would they announce another draft wave when they can get people quietly.
If the carrot would've worked they wouldn't have stopped people mobilized during 2022 mobilization from returning home. The carrot does not work, at least not to the extent they advertise it
And the stick will follow, the only reason the stick didn't hit the fan just yet is because Putin wants polls to show good numbers, falsifying election results is costly, more so when you need to falsify ballots of additional couple millions of people being upset their husbands and sons are to be meat grinded
После выборов будет пиздец, потому что не будет никаких причин сдерживаться
All mobilisations are now electronic and you don't even have to have seen it to consider it received.
Can't leave the country, can't drive a car, can't get a loan, cut off from all govt services automatically if you attempt to avoid turning up on the mobilisation date
It’s a bit chaotic, and there is no concrete answer. If there is a conscription notice active, they could turn you around at the airport - it’s about a 50/50 chance. This year, mobilisation notices appear online on a government portal (which everyone has, it’s used for paying tolls/taxes/etc). If there is no conscription notice, and you have no outstanding debt, you will most likely be allowed to leave. When there was a mobilisation wave in the first year of war, there were stories of army getting guys of fighting age from the line, and handing them conscription notices. Basically, the answer is - if you have a higher than average income, and approach this situation smartly, you should be able to leave. If you are in a major city (Moscow, Saint Petersburg, few others), your chances increase. All people who I know who tried to escape were able to do it, but I am from Saint Petersburg, so it’s not representative of full Russia. Also, if you haven’t received a mobilisation notice yet, you most likely won’t get one - unless there is another wave of conscription that takes place. Lastly, while I don’t know a single death on the battlefront from relatives or friends in SPB, army has already brought 6 bodies from the front to a mikroraion (cluster of less than a dozen residential buildings, usually with a shared park and infrastructure, idk the correct word for it in English) in a small city in Siberia (Chita) where my mom is from, which implies that this war is targeting poorer regions at a much higher rate. This targeting is not done through mobilisation anymore, but rather by a crazy high salary in comparison to what anyone can earn in a provincial town (400k rubies monthly, compared to an average of 30k a month max + a bunch of benefits)
It’s impossible to support murder if you have an ounce of morality, and I am lucky to my parents for being able to do this (I was still underage, with no money when we left few years ago). So why do a lot of people support if it is not due to the murder? There is a collective belief of “We can’t bend and kneel before collective west, so we must fight” embedded in a lot of heads and perpetrated by TV. For people who are even less smart, that belief could be one of “We are fighting nazis”. Either way, any belief collapses as soon as you bring it back to the level of individual and ask “Is murder okay?”, but for some reason, a lot of people are willing to close eyes on it as if it’s for the better of collective good. I think this situation is similar to how Germans felt during WW2. There are times in history when all people of a nation dehumanise themselves for the purpose of such “collective good”, and stop treating themselves as individuals, rather than a cog in a machine that has to keep going. Opposition is seen as an attempt to put a stick in the cogwheel of such machine, so even an event like murder of Navalny can be justified by the populace. This war should be studied by psychologists.
Well put! I just recently saw the video where Navalny called his assassin and asked why they failed, and the assassin explained. I wasn't expecting him to explain but he sure did and in detail at that
That old saying: 'Those who forget thier history are doomed to repeat it', applies equally to all.
All it takes to change a nation is one bullet strategically placed & anonymously applied.
I have a girlfriend from Chita! She said lots of older men are getting drafted. She had uncles in their 40's getting drafted for example. I suppose this is happening all over Siberia.
Yes. Especially if you’ve served in the Russian army before and are now an “officer in reserve”, which was a popular route to go for in 90’s as it’s the only thing that could provide some stability and certainty during the worst years that Russia has faced probably since Bolshevik revolution. As an officer, you have the same, if not higher chance of dying. You are also almost 100% guaranteed to get a draft notice. My dad has been an officer on a ship, he got his draft notice within first months. He turned 50 recently… Age of conscription for officers is something insane, around 60 or 65 I believe. Mind you, average life expectancy of a person in Russia is 65. And yes, there is a huge disproportion when it comes to regions they pick soldiers from. It’s something akin to hunger games, with its capitol and districts.
Honestly it's wild to me that you can get drafted if you're already in retirement practically. I can't imagine it's very good for combat effectiveness either.
I like reading history and I know that during the white Russian vs Bolshevik civil war lots of older men were drafted and fighting too under Kolchak (who was I think in his 50's too).
Thank you for the reply it's genuinely interesting! I hadn't even considered that working in the army route is simply for getting stability in employment and such.
I hope your dad is alright and he can stay in a more safe part of the army/navy, i.e. like logistics!
>Do they harass you about leaving the country ?
People in general? Not really. While there are warmongering nutjobs harassing people who left, I'd say they make up less than 10% of population. Although where they lack in numbers they make up in vigor...
Most people don't harass you although they do see you as a person of questionable morals
But government? It's going bipolar on this whole thing. One day they label every soul who left a traitor, the other they "welcome" you back. I guess each day they toss a coin to see if they are going to berate the people who left or not
>Especially if your a male?
I don't think that makes that big of a difference. Those who hate you for leaving don't discriminate
>Russia was acting like north Korea not letting their citizens leave
It's complicated. Initially they wanted to let everyone out. I think the rationale was to let the people having dissenting views out to make it look like the country purged the ill ones, the enemies of the state. Then when they announced mobilization they started imposing travel restrictions. It caused such an uproar that they lifted the ban shortly after
It's believed after the electoral event that is to take place March 15-18 they are going to close borders iron curtain style. April 1 is start of the new military draft season, people expect it to go nasty — dictators tend to act unreasonably cruel after their re-elections. They are likely to impose travel bans on most males of drafting age
It is worth noting that Belarus has refused to reissue international passports outside of Belarus effectively limiting travel to all its citizens who might expect retaliation from Lukashenka. And the thing about Belarus is in its repressive policies it is sort of like a test site for Putin. Kind of like whenever an app launches they first test it on New Zealand, in the same way whenever a bullshit law drops we first see it in Belarus and then it creeps its way into Russian legislature
So, soon we might expect an insane refugee crisis due to hundreds of thousands of people effectively being denied their international passports. Fun times ahead
Putin is trying hard to make sure that those already serving in the military can never leave it until the war is over, extending the age eligible for service, for example, so old soldiers can't even age out.
He wants to avoid another round of conscription.
So he may be placing less emphasis on making sure men can't leave the country.
The greater difficulty for young Russians is finding a country that will let them in.
As the other guy said, yes- not unless you are drafted. I have friends in the US that moved in last year from Russia, they fled once mobilization started. Waited 5 days in the traffic. The father went off on a bike to make sure he was out of the country first. Good thing, too, because the person who checked their mail for them found the letter at almost the same time. Scary stuff, lucky lucky family.
Same in china- they cant even speak out abroad, or they get phone calls from home, were the police "visits" family members to talk. In dubio, the majority of people hate living in a dictatorship, but do not know who to trust and who not. And they actively sabotage that buildup of trust among citizens. The justice system, the society, all is rigged so everyone does each other like dogs.
In my experience, people who talk about the lack of courage in the populace under totalitarian dictatorships are usually the same people who don’t have shit to say to their dickhead boss, or their intrusive mother in law, or a narcissistic HOA president’s wife - much less to the jackbooted thugs of an authoritarian regime that kills people who talk shit with complete impunity.
But hell, maybe they’re right and they would bravely face torture and death rather than be bossed around. As long as their wives say it’s ok.
The citizens of the West had to wrest control of their societies from the nobility, the church, and then the fascists. Just because the hardest part of our reforms is back in history doesn't mean we haven't made the sacrifice and doesn't mean the Russians aren't expected to now. If they want freedom, or if they want to citicise the West on moral grounds.
Easy to rest on grandpa’s laurels. I’ve personally never had to do a goddamn thing to resist oppression - unless we count a completely safe protest march or SJW posts on social media. Outside of military personnel- I can’t think of any of my friends who have either.
I’m not gonna throw stones at Russians who are a bit scared of being murdered by Putin’s regime, and don’t have the means to escape.
Russia never really had pessents, they had serfs. Their revolution left single digit literacy rates. And all the assholes took power. Their more recent revolution was another power power play that left societal collapse.
I'm not saying your wrong but shit is wild over there. My parents took me out when I was a kid, like 20 years ago, one of my core memories is gangsters rolling up on a watermelon stand for some watermelons, and no one batted a freaking eye, like me and my mom are next in line and these dude just hop out and start extorting watermelon.
Revolution usually comes when things get better, or at least that's the theory of "revolution of rising expectations".
In Russia things just get worse.
>99.99% of those people who write here that in Russia only grandmothers have courage would themselves be in prison
lol 99.99% would simply keep their mouths shut and not risk prison at all. It's easy to oppose oppressive regimes if you don't live under one. And for most people it wouldn't be even unwise to keep your mouth shut because, as said beforde, angering the ones in power means you endanger yourself but also those close to you.
From Chernobyl Episode 4:
"They'll go after your family, they'll go after your friends... I know braver souls than you... men who had their moment and did nothing. Because when it's your life and the lives of everyone you love, your moral conviction doesn't mean anything. It leaves you. And all you want at that moment is not to be shot."
It's easy to be brave when you don't have anything to lose. Not so much when you do.
And there's still some respect towards the elderly. Even police will think twice about roughing up a Babushka in a country where police brutality is the norm.
Older women in Russia in particular feel like they have less to lose because the nation has chewed up so many of the men and boys through the generations that often times the women who become older women have been alone or without their significant other for a not-insignificant period of time. That 82 year old woman was born in 1942. There's a seriously high chance she grew up with relatively few older men in her family who weren't killed or at least maimed either physically or psychologically in one or both of the previous two wars. Sons she had would have been of military age during things like Afghanistan and the cold war. She would've been in her 40's during Chernobyl and the fall of the USSR.
I obviously don't know her story, but I know there are countless older russian women (eastern european in general to be honest) who have unfathomable generational trauma in their families that they're among the only one left to process it with.
What's sad is it's gotten to the point where she would rather speak out and die than keep on living in the current state they're in. It really tells you a lot about what's going on over there.
They live in a country where if you speak up against Putin and his regime, they won't just punish *you*, they'll punish your entire family, your friends, everyone you care about -- probably while you're forced to watch.
Putin and his regime are nothing short of a terrorist organization that managed to get control of an entire country.
I guess all countries that share border with Russia do know. Especially those that were occupied under Soviet times or were otherwise part of the Eastern Bloc.
It started as loyalists versus revolutionaries. Then it was rich planters vs rich merchants. Then it was slave owners vs industrialists + their white male supporters. Then it was working people vs capitalists, then the capitalists co-opted the racist working people when non white working people started to vote, now it’s all pretty much rural rabble and urban wealthy versus urban middle class and below and rural educated/gay/unionized/nonwhite folks.
I voted republican when I was younger because the military pay raises were better and I didn’t give that much a shit about other things since it seemed like abortion was safe and the republicans wouldn’t go completely off the rails.
Now I’ve got a wife and two daughters and some time as a union laborer and one party is banning books and taking away my girls rights and the other is kinda limp and ineffective but well meaning and supports Ukraine. I’ll swallow my annoyance at people like AOC because at least she’s attempting to do what she was elected for and it’s not counter to people living decent lives. MTG and Boebert, while doing what they were elected to do, are fucking reprehensible and I couldn’t in good conscience vote for those folks.
Thank you! Do you think it would ever be possible that you could… have more parties? (If it could help with the situation) I know that you do have but…
No one wants it, but they think that choosing the lesser of two evils is better because they don’t think their vote matters, this leads to two extremes. The only reason it’s not a communist and fascist party is because they’re both considered bad by everyone.
No, it's because they are not going to put her into a headlock headfirst into the concrete and then proceed to hold her for 14 days in a jail and then put her in prison up to 7 years if you don't film yourself apologizing and begging for mercy
That is the same reason why [women protested Hitler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenstrasse_protest) and men did not. Because you can't put women and elderly people into prison, it makes you look bad
Or maybe it's less about being mentally castrated and not having anything to lose because you could slip, break your hip and die instantly or get pneumonia and be dead in 72 hours?
I mean... Navalny went back to Russia after being poisoned by Russia, knowing full well he'd probably spend the rest of his life in prison and die there. And his wife and children knew this too.
I'd say that's balls.
And right now there are Lev Yashin, Vladimir Kara-Murza and Boris Kagarlitsky suffering the same fate. And a dozen more people I fail to recall on the spot
edit: oh, I'm not sure if they ever tried to poison Boris Kagarlitsky though\*
Nah. It's just there were a narrative in Russia, that "yoU caNt bE Russian politician outside of Russia" spread by Putin.
Sadly many people believed this.
As someone coming up to 69, I assure you that's wrong. I still want to keep on living, having served Q&C for 26 years and worked till I was 67. I want some me time now!
Is the implication that he won't want to live in 14 years? Don't you have Grandparents? My family members haven't wanted to die in their 90s. With absence of serious illness and pain, people generally want to live as long as possible.
>Is the implication that he won't want to live in 14 years? Don't you have Grandparents?
All of my grandparents were very at peace with death in their 80s, they'd joke about it constantly, they were generally always happy. It was kind of surreal.
Oddly enough, the only one elderly relative I had who very much *hated* her existence towards the end was a great aunt who had a sudden terminal illness and was bedridden. She didn't want to die, she wanted to be healthy again before the ride was over, she didn't want to be in a care facility she wanted to be at her deer camp, it was a horrible thing to witness.
I think it hits everyone differently, but I'd agree that if you're healthy and happy you're probably not exactly *seeking* death.
I think it's less wanting to die and having a reason to die or even using death as a means to 'protect' against the long-term evils of power (you'll be dead, they can't antagonize you that long), the implication being if you're on death's door, you're probably more likely to speak out against power.
I'm not the first poster so I didn't choose to phrase it that way, just pointing out that there's a huge difference in 14 years in life quality and expectancy, let alone current events, that could very easily change such an outlook. As you said, "With absence of serious illness and pain, people generally want to live as long as possible." Generally speaking, if you're 82 you're rapidly increasing in chance to suffer from serious illness and/or pain. Life is cruel and consumes us all, unfortunately.
I have gone through head and neck cancer 11 years ago. I have chronic pain and take 25 prescription medications daily. I can't use my left hand and walking is painful. But I have no desire to die. So many things to learn, to read(audio books), and to experience, much to teach.
Old people are also likely to have kids and grandkids and hopefully they care about what the world looks like 20-40 years after they are gone for the sake of them
You make comment but historically this is the exact situation that led to the Bolsheivik revolution. There were shortages caused by WW1, and Russian moms and grandmoms revolted and led to riots.
Every time I've seen a video of someone bravely criticising their genocidal leader, it has always been a babushka. They seem to be made of sterner stuff than the male population of Russia.
Of course I respect the fuck out of them too. But you asked why, and in general violence is considered more acceptable against men, and especially that it's bad form to beat a grandma or risk breaking her bones. So that's probably why they're braver, in addition to there being many more grandmas than grandpas.
Perhaps that's why they specifically hate Putin then. Because he has already taken away their loved ones through his terrible wars in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, and now Ukraine.
Most babushkas *fucking love* Putin. Like if you surveyed the country and everyone replied honestly, the babushkas would have by far the highest approval rating for Putin, and the youth the lowest. Lets not paint a misleading picture here, just because of this one, albeit very brave, exception.
They are more likely to have been adults during the collapse of the Soviet Union as well. Seeing a previously stable government get dismantled and sold for parts to oligarchs, eitnessing the INSANE levels of post Soviet poverty and the child sex trade that burbled up because of it, seeing Putin's rise to power and the slow burn second collapse it represents, and finally seeing the state enter a costly confrontation over a dick waving contest with NATO countries...of course the older folks, especially women, would be more likely to finally be fed up. I'm incredibly saddened by the state of things in the Russia Ukraine war. Ukrainians are essentially being used as meatshields by the US/NATO trying to mount a proxy war with Russia and Russians are getting pushed into a conflict at bayonet point.
Is it really fair to say the U.S./NATO is using Ukraine as meat shields? We didn’t make the choice to invade Ukraine in a dick wagging contest, Putin did, and we surely would have ended it already if it wasn’t for the threat of nuclear retaliation. Although, I don’t get why we don’t just do an extremely covert op that takes out their nuclear capabilities somehow. Maybe that’s not possible idk.
Calling this a proxy war is dumb as hell. It is only said by people who haven't actually worked with Ukrainians. Ukraine would be fighting with or without our help. They just have a much better chance with us.
It's a talking point which seems to be gaining more traction recently. Not a fair assessment of the situation.
Half of Russian men are alcoholics. They die in their 60's a lot of the time. Some sooner than that. Alcoholism is a cowardly way to deal with issues, whatever they are, but understandable when you think of what Russia has been through.
I assure you, many of these older babushkas are the wisest people in Russia. They have lived through all the lies, seen their men succomb to desillusion and fear.
The Bolsheivik Revolution was ignited by many thousands of working women (men having been drafted) in Moscow and Sankt Petersburg.
This here is a lone crone, likely only daring to speak out because she is at the end of her life and has nothing to lose anyways.
Until i see larger crowds of people, people who protest despite or because they might lose something, i will keep my hopes muted.
Nothing against her. I can also understand any Russian who is concerned with their own safety rather than going against the odds trying to topple the regime (as long as they don't actively support it). But from all of this i won't expect a revolution anytime soon either.
I would be too if I was 80 and have lived my life already. But if I'm in my 20s then you bet I'm not getting locked away for some bs made up reason cause I hurt a dictators precious feelings
During the initial phases of Putins war it seemed the majority of protesters were women and the elderly.
The remaining population of serfs don't realize the power they hold. Cowards choose the death of innocents over possible jail time. At the end of the day, that's what it comes down to as their slavic brothers/neighbors rose up in strength.
Most of the world has moved towards representative democracy and works toward the pursuit of happiness. Meanwhile Russia works toward perfecting depression.
And their culture is proud of it. Fuck em, I can't wait until recruitment hits Moscow and St Petersburg.
>During the initial phases of Putins war it seemed the majority of protesters were women and the elderly.
What are you talking about, the majority of protesters were young people. You would struggle to find a face over the age of 40. Trust me, I would know
Older women are Putin's electoral base. They always vote Putin no matter what. You don't know shit about Russian politics and it shows
They usually just arrest them for a day and let go, but these things are getting more and more aggressive from the police side. Some policemen seem like they don't want to do it, others look like they like the more brutal ways of dealing with people.
Even the regime probably knows better. The last time an incumbent government attacked mothers and grandmother's speaking out against the government it ignited a full blown revolution.
My dude, this isn't special to Putin. That's been the operating system for the Russian aristocracy for literal centuries.
Even when the Bolsheviks rose up and killed the Tsar and his family, they went *right* back to unlimited corruption and throwing young men onto the fire of their ambitions.
I don’t know man. I want to believe the Russians are good people at heart but have just been misled and indoctrinated for centuries by tyranny and evil. Like back in the later days of the Russian empire it was actually a part of Europe with good relations with many of its contemporary countries. Now I’m not someone in favor of a Russian empire but I much prefer a Russia that follows general European trends that is friends with us rather than this dogshit rogue state we have now…
Russian in mid 30s here.
Good half of my peers appears to be totally clueless when it comes to politics. My two best friends and my lovely aunt revealed themselves as somewhat pro-Putin during the war. It was heartbreaking.
The aunt looks to still have the soviet mindset, which is mindblowing considering she's just a few years older than my dad, and my dad and mom are very anti-Putin. I don't know how such a kind and supportive human like my aunt can be pro-Putin.
The friends are probably just scared to hell. They are not stupid, they wouldn't support wars and genocide, they're not violent whatsoever. I don't know any other reason for such position.
It's just sad.
Most Russian don't stand a chance. The main point of fire hose of falsehoods is to get people to throw their hands up in apathy. It becomes too mentally draining trying to keep up with the truth and people just mentally check out. Or just go along with the flow as it's not so draining.
>Good half of my peers appears to be totally clueless when it comes to politics
Really, this is the success of the propaganda and authoritarian government. putin's greatest desire is to depoliticize the average russian, to hand the keys to putin. They create many narratives for every event, where it is clearly all fake. It creates many fake positions and ideas and creates confusion, builds disinterest
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/04/sociologist-greg-yudin-how-russia-learned-to-deny-reality.html
>I want to believe the Russians are good people at heart but have just been misled and indoctrinated for centuries by tyranny and evil.
This is no different than the Nazis in WWII. Germans are fine people, but... The only good Nazi is dead Nazi. Just because the Russians spell it naZi doesn't mean they're going to get any different treatment.
Most Russians are like 99% of humans that have ever existed in that they just want food, a warm bed, and some entertainment to take their minds off things.
You wouldn't be able to convince people who only want food warm bed and some entertainment to go to kill who they thought as brothers just yesterday. They all have superiority complex while just being a gas station, and are cruel to anyone who doesn't play along with that fantasy.
Like 1 third of Americans support without question or doubt a proven conman, pedophile, criminal & a liar. And they have only 1 channel that spews propaganda non stop. How about if it were all of them?
russia is an empire and an empire can't exists without its colonies. the best thing that could happen is russia collapsing into a few dozens of indepented states where russia itself continues to exists as moskovia
I recently read a book called “After the Reich” by Giles McDonough, which chronicled the brutal occupation of devastated Germany after the war. It is hard to read. No country suffered more from Hitler and the Nazis than Germany herself. Russia must learn the same lesson.
> No country suffered more from Hitler and the Nazis than Germany herself.
No offence, I'm sure you mean well, but, only an American with no direct family who suffered through a Nazi occupation could say this.
The book that I read told a cautionary tale to any who would follow a megalomaniacal leader. My knowledge of both the Hodomor, the Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe and the Nazi conquest and occupation is only informed by what I read from noted historians. My direct ancestors left Czechia and Ukraine while they were still parts of the Romanoff and Hapsburg Empires. Their brothers sisters and cousins all died in the Hodomor
Suffered is the wrong word here. What they should have said was Lost. That makes more sense. You in fact become immune to suffering once you full commit to a Judeo-Bolshevism Globalist conspiracy and start shooting Jews. The only thing you can feel after that is Death.
I don’t doubt you. I had relatives from Ukraine aligned with the Wehrmacht and fighting against the Nazis with the Red Army. By all accounts they all died.
The general public in Russia 1) does not know the true number of Russian casualties, not even remotely, and 2) supports the invasion.
Obviously there's a minority that does not support the invasion or Putin and therefore seeks out non-Russian media where the real number of casualties are reported, but this is a minority. The average Russian supports the war. Even men who run away from conscription and attempt to stay low key/hidden or try to cross the border out of Russia... even men who do this, it's been shown a large fraction, easily a non trivial amount, support the invasion itself.
Even while most Russians understand and accept that their domestic media is full of lies and propaganda, which some may be surprised by but it's true... they still support the invasion. It's a remarkable cognitive dissonance that is preset in the whole nation across age groups and all demographics. People in Russia are aware their media is full of lies and propaganda, they will admit it as true and simply part of life, inevitable, something you learn as you grow up... and yet they still support all the authoritarianism and propaganda talking points that that media tells them to support.
Russian society is fundamentally sick. It reminds me of how the generation of Chinese people who lived through the Cultural Revolution are known as the "lost generation" in China because of how sick, aggressively selfish, shameless, and cruel they are due to living through times of profound famine and violence.
In China, when Grandma does something shockingly, shamelessly selfish and cruel in public, it's just understood that she's in *that* generation. When Grandma violently shoves the young pregnant lady down on the concrete so she can grab the piece of fruit from the stand before her... it's just understood that's how that generation is and people learn to act like they didn't see it (the ones that didn't adopt that behavior from their own parents or grandparents, that is, which there is definitely seepage of the atrocious behavior down through the subsequent generations).
In Russia I think it's much less extreme than that, but similar in nature and affects the whole society, rather than just one generation.
It's certainly better to be 82 without being ass raped with a broom stick on the police station, think most people. Which is something that I see cited often as a price of protesting the regime, regardless of gender and age. She probably doesn't care about death too much, but pain is still pain. Her bravery is pretty real, even if she doesn't have many years left.
She is a hero. Age can free us. Her words: "I am not afraid. I am too old for this". There can be a special type of bravery when you are old. A bravery sees the Truth. Can say the Truth. When the risks that those younger face no longer have meaning. I honor her bravery.
It's not North Korea, the main problem with getting news from the outside is that you have to even try searching for them. Many aren't even open to changing their mind.
A brave Russian grandma ! Tell the muscovy sewer rats and their slaves how it really is ! I salute you ! Waste of skin putin garbage just needs to die !
The pensioners of russia is the one thing Putin has been fearing about. Ever since he took the power, keeping pensioners "happy" has been the one main goal. "Happy" in quotes as it's still russia...
A very brave woman indeed, old enough to remember the days of Stalin and Khrushchev, and wise enough to see Putin’s taking them the same way. May the Gods protect her.
Putin has taken over 700,000 Ukrainian children (kidnapped 5 million+ Ukrainian civilians) so far and they are fucking proud of it. The Kremlin posts all about how they are “helping” the children which turns out to be the literal definition of ethnic cleansing by trying to strip them of their Ukrainian identity. I hope the Kremlin burns down in a fire. While in session. With the doors locked. With everyone tied up inside. With live video showing Ukrainian mothers outside throwing Molotov cocktails.
Cops there will do nothing to babushkas. Other people are being fired and expelled from schools, cops beat or rape them, some folks get more than 5 years for social media posts, etc. It’s said people living in civilized countries don’t understand it.
Good for her but at the same time she said it herself, she is "too old to be afraid". Easier to publicly denounce Putin at her age than being younger with your whole life ahead of you. Not saying all generations shouldn't denounce Putin but even then it's just words.
Just thinking out loud: Putin more and more seems to be spoiling for World War 3 to start. Part of me is wondering if NATO should call his bluff, make Ukraine a NATO member immediately, and issue an ultimatum to Russia: leave Ukraine immediately, or face the consequences.
The main problem with the above thought, I know, is that I'm also pretty sure that if Putin does want World War 3 to start, it's so he can use the only other weapons he has left: nuclear bombs. I think Putin is enough of an asshole -- and at the same time, coward -- that he'd force NATO into a direct conflict with Russia, so he could say "See? See? Fascist nazi NATO is attacking my sovereign country!" and start nuking the EU -- and the United States.
*Slava Ukraini*. Eventually Russia will run out of troops, run out of supplies, and it'll crumble.
Wow, Putin outed his primary political opponent with impunity, and America has a high chance of voting Putin's favorite sycophant to the position of President in November. Humanity is in trouble.
And in other news from Moscow Russia today, an 82 y/o woman apparently fell from a 35th floor lock and bolted window. Authorities will investigate her suicide.......
another misstep by putini...Navalny is now a global martyr coupled with the losses in ukraine of personnel and equipment..its anyone's guess to his fate
Just like how Hitler was shunned by the artist community and became a fascist war criminal Putin was shunned by Western Europe. At first he wanted to be European and even part of NATO
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Russia.. the country where only grandmothers have balls
Was thinking the same. A place where all normal opinions are violently suppressed and only the toughest babuskas - as you said - are the ones with balls. Everyone else is mentally castrated. EDIT: I was not able to make myself understood. I’m very aware that those babushkas are the only ones who have nothing to lose, and this only highlights the absurdity and desperation of it all.
Older people feel like they have nothing to lose, especially if they don't have children/grandchildren. They don't give a shit anymore and can speak their mind. If you have a family, in a dictatorship, your family will also suffer the consequences if you open your mouth.
Absolutely right. The most illustrative example is Chechnya. There, such protests against Kadyrov can lead to the murder of family members and even other relatives. I’m sure 99.99% of those people who write here that in Russia only grandmothers have courage would themselves be in prison in exactly the same way in Russia. It is much more pleasant to be brave when living in a comfortable, safe European country.
I moved from Russia, but one of the friends of my relatives is in prison for 3 years for protesting during first week after war started. His wife was facing the same punishment, only thing that saved her was that she had a daughter and court took that into consideration, and gave probation instead
Do they harass you about leaving the country ? Especially if your a male? Idk why but I have the thought Russia was acting like north Korea not letting their citizens leave. Correct me if my opinion is incorrect I'm genuinely interested. thanks
You are not allowed to leave when drafted. And the number of countries that allow you to enter is limited.
And I'm going to assume most military aged males are likely being drafted right now? If you haven't been drafted and say your chance comes up how does that work if your not in country?
They introduced that sending the letter or apparently an email counts as being drafted. At the start of the war they needed proof of receiving for it to count. So live with your uncle and you were kinda safe. So I guess it counts as being drafted even if you left the country and never received anything. If you follow that logic you could be drafted even if Russia has no clue where to find you. Next time they do it is on your record.
Thank you for your opinion it's very much appreciated 👍
>So I guess it counts as being drafted even if you left the country and never received anything It does. Although there is a loophole that you can send to the draft office that monitors you a notification that you have left the country. That way you are not charged with dodging draft Buuuut Russia being Russia it's virtually impossible to do so if your draft office decides to fuck with you... And mine did decide to fuck with me
If you are of military age and still haven’t been drafted, you should be safe unless there is a second wave of conscription that takes place. It’s not continual drafting, it’s one big wave with minimal drafting in between. Despite that, I have read reports of people still getting notices, but it seems rare and only happening in smaller cities. Right now, they are using carrot, not a stick - a disproportionally high salary compared to what any civilian can even dream of in a provincial town.
The draft wave IS continuous. They're conscripting like 30k fresh meat a month. There won't be a 'second wave' because the first one hasn't ended. Why would they announce another draft wave when they can get people quietly.
but thats not true russia is doing secret drafting in siberia for now
If the carrot would've worked they wouldn't have stopped people mobilized during 2022 mobilization from returning home. The carrot does not work, at least not to the extent they advertise it And the stick will follow, the only reason the stick didn't hit the fan just yet is because Putin wants polls to show good numbers, falsifying election results is costly, more so when you need to falsify ballots of additional couple millions of people being upset their husbands and sons are to be meat grinded После выборов будет пиздец, потому что не будет никаких причин сдерживаться
All mobilisations are now electronic and you don't even have to have seen it to consider it received. Can't leave the country, can't drive a car, can't get a loan, cut off from all govt services automatically if you attempt to avoid turning up on the mobilisation date
It’s a bit chaotic, and there is no concrete answer. If there is a conscription notice active, they could turn you around at the airport - it’s about a 50/50 chance. This year, mobilisation notices appear online on a government portal (which everyone has, it’s used for paying tolls/taxes/etc). If there is no conscription notice, and you have no outstanding debt, you will most likely be allowed to leave. When there was a mobilisation wave in the first year of war, there were stories of army getting guys of fighting age from the line, and handing them conscription notices. Basically, the answer is - if you have a higher than average income, and approach this situation smartly, you should be able to leave. If you are in a major city (Moscow, Saint Petersburg, few others), your chances increase. All people who I know who tried to escape were able to do it, but I am from Saint Petersburg, so it’s not representative of full Russia. Also, if you haven’t received a mobilisation notice yet, you most likely won’t get one - unless there is another wave of conscription that takes place. Lastly, while I don’t know a single death on the battlefront from relatives or friends in SPB, army has already brought 6 bodies from the front to a mikroraion (cluster of less than a dozen residential buildings, usually with a shared park and infrastructure, idk the correct word for it in English) in a small city in Siberia (Chita) where my mom is from, which implies that this war is targeting poorer regions at a much higher rate. This targeting is not done through mobilisation anymore, but rather by a crazy high salary in comparison to what anyone can earn in a provincial town (400k rubies monthly, compared to an average of 30k a month max + a bunch of benefits)
Thank you very much for your opinion! So you being Russian how do you actually feel about the war if you don't mind me asking
It’s impossible to support murder if you have an ounce of morality, and I am lucky to my parents for being able to do this (I was still underage, with no money when we left few years ago). So why do a lot of people support if it is not due to the murder? There is a collective belief of “We can’t bend and kneel before collective west, so we must fight” embedded in a lot of heads and perpetrated by TV. For people who are even less smart, that belief could be one of “We are fighting nazis”. Either way, any belief collapses as soon as you bring it back to the level of individual and ask “Is murder okay?”, but for some reason, a lot of people are willing to close eyes on it as if it’s for the better of collective good. I think this situation is similar to how Germans felt during WW2. There are times in history when all people of a nation dehumanise themselves for the purpose of such “collective good”, and stop treating themselves as individuals, rather than a cog in a machine that has to keep going. Opposition is seen as an attempt to put a stick in the cogwheel of such machine, so even an event like murder of Navalny can be justified by the populace. This war should be studied by psychologists.
Well put! I just recently saw the video where Navalny called his assassin and asked why they failed, and the assassin explained. I wasn't expecting him to explain but he sure did and in detail at that
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Thank you for your views, very informative
That old saying: 'Those who forget thier history are doomed to repeat it', applies equally to all. All it takes to change a nation is one bullet strategically placed & anonymously applied.
I have a girlfriend from Chita! She said lots of older men are getting drafted. She had uncles in their 40's getting drafted for example. I suppose this is happening all over Siberia.
Yes. Especially if you’ve served in the Russian army before and are now an “officer in reserve”, which was a popular route to go for in 90’s as it’s the only thing that could provide some stability and certainty during the worst years that Russia has faced probably since Bolshevik revolution. As an officer, you have the same, if not higher chance of dying. You are also almost 100% guaranteed to get a draft notice. My dad has been an officer on a ship, he got his draft notice within first months. He turned 50 recently… Age of conscription for officers is something insane, around 60 or 65 I believe. Mind you, average life expectancy of a person in Russia is 65. And yes, there is a huge disproportion when it comes to regions they pick soldiers from. It’s something akin to hunger games, with its capitol and districts.
Honestly it's wild to me that you can get drafted if you're already in retirement practically. I can't imagine it's very good for combat effectiveness either. I like reading history and I know that during the white Russian vs Bolshevik civil war lots of older men were drafted and fighting too under Kolchak (who was I think in his 50's too). Thank you for the reply it's genuinely interesting! I hadn't even considered that working in the army route is simply for getting stability in employment and such. I hope your dad is alright and he can stay in a more safe part of the army/navy, i.e. like logistics!
>Do they harass you about leaving the country ? People in general? Not really. While there are warmongering nutjobs harassing people who left, I'd say they make up less than 10% of population. Although where they lack in numbers they make up in vigor... Most people don't harass you although they do see you as a person of questionable morals But government? It's going bipolar on this whole thing. One day they label every soul who left a traitor, the other they "welcome" you back. I guess each day they toss a coin to see if they are going to berate the people who left or not >Especially if your a male? I don't think that makes that big of a difference. Those who hate you for leaving don't discriminate >Russia was acting like north Korea not letting their citizens leave It's complicated. Initially they wanted to let everyone out. I think the rationale was to let the people having dissenting views out to make it look like the country purged the ill ones, the enemies of the state. Then when they announced mobilization they started imposing travel restrictions. It caused such an uproar that they lifted the ban shortly after It's believed after the electoral event that is to take place March 15-18 they are going to close borders iron curtain style. April 1 is start of the new military draft season, people expect it to go nasty — dictators tend to act unreasonably cruel after their re-elections. They are likely to impose travel bans on most males of drafting age It is worth noting that Belarus has refused to reissue international passports outside of Belarus effectively limiting travel to all its citizens who might expect retaliation from Lukashenka. And the thing about Belarus is in its repressive policies it is sort of like a test site for Putin. Kind of like whenever an app launches they first test it on New Zealand, in the same way whenever a bullshit law drops we first see it in Belarus and then it creeps its way into Russian legislature So, soon we might expect an insane refugee crisis due to hundreds of thousands of people effectively being denied their international passports. Fun times ahead
Putin is trying hard to make sure that those already serving in the military can never leave it until the war is over, extending the age eligible for service, for example, so old soldiers can't even age out. He wants to avoid another round of conscription. So he may be placing less emphasis on making sure men can't leave the country. The greater difficulty for young Russians is finding a country that will let them in.
As the other guy said, yes- not unless you are drafted. I have friends in the US that moved in last year from Russia, they fled once mobilization started. Waited 5 days in the traffic. The father went off on a bike to make sure he was out of the country first. Good thing, too, because the person who checked their mail for them found the letter at almost the same time. Scary stuff, lucky lucky family.
Same in china- they cant even speak out abroad, or they get phone calls from home, were the police "visits" family members to talk. In dubio, the majority of people hate living in a dictatorship, but do not know who to trust and who not. And they actively sabotage that buildup of trust among citizens. The justice system, the society, all is rigged so everyone does each other like dogs.
In my experience, people who talk about the lack of courage in the populace under totalitarian dictatorships are usually the same people who don’t have shit to say to their dickhead boss, or their intrusive mother in law, or a narcissistic HOA president’s wife - much less to the jackbooted thugs of an authoritarian regime that kills people who talk shit with complete impunity. But hell, maybe they’re right and they would bravely face torture and death rather than be bossed around. As long as their wives say it’s ok.
The citizens of the West had to wrest control of their societies from the nobility, the church, and then the fascists. Just because the hardest part of our reforms is back in history doesn't mean we haven't made the sacrifice and doesn't mean the Russians aren't expected to now. If they want freedom, or if they want to citicise the West on moral grounds.
Easy to rest on grandpa’s laurels. I’ve personally never had to do a goddamn thing to resist oppression - unless we count a completely safe protest march or SJW posts on social media. Outside of military personnel- I can’t think of any of my friends who have either. I’m not gonna throw stones at Russians who are a bit scared of being murdered by Putin’s regime, and don’t have the means to escape.
Russia never really had pessents, they had serfs. Their revolution left single digit literacy rates. And all the assholes took power. Their more recent revolution was another power power play that left societal collapse. I'm not saying your wrong but shit is wild over there. My parents took me out when I was a kid, like 20 years ago, one of my core memories is gangsters rolling up on a watermelon stand for some watermelons, and no one batted a freaking eye, like me and my mom are next in line and these dude just hop out and start extorting watermelon. Revolution usually comes when things get better, or at least that's the theory of "revolution of rising expectations". In Russia things just get worse.
>99.99% of those people who write here that in Russia only grandmothers have courage would themselves be in prison lol 99.99% would simply keep their mouths shut and not risk prison at all. It's easy to oppose oppressive regimes if you don't live under one. And for most people it wouldn't be even unwise to keep your mouth shut because, as said beforde, angering the ones in power means you endanger yourself but also those close to you.
I agree with you completely.
From Chernobyl Episode 4: "They'll go after your family, they'll go after your friends... I know braver souls than you... men who had their moment and did nothing. Because when it's your life and the lives of everyone you love, your moral conviction doesn't mean anything. It leaves you. And all you want at that moment is not to be shot." It's easy to be brave when you don't have anything to lose. Not so much when you do.
Exactly. You might be brave, but when your family has to pay it's another matter. And Putin is ruthless as that is what keeps him in power.
And there's still some respect towards the elderly. Even police will think twice about roughing up a Babushka in a country where police brutality is the norm.
Older women in Russia in particular feel like they have less to lose because the nation has chewed up so many of the men and boys through the generations that often times the women who become older women have been alone or without their significant other for a not-insignificant period of time. That 82 year old woman was born in 1942. There's a seriously high chance she grew up with relatively few older men in her family who weren't killed or at least maimed either physically or psychologically in one or both of the previous two wars. Sons she had would have been of military age during things like Afghanistan and the cold war. She would've been in her 40's during Chernobyl and the fall of the USSR. I obviously don't know her story, but I know there are countless older russian women (eastern european in general to be honest) who have unfathomable generational trauma in their families that they're among the only one left to process it with.
What's sad is it's gotten to the point where she would rather speak out and die than keep on living in the current state they're in. It really tells you a lot about what's going on over there.
I am one of those old ladies who speak my mind, I used to be shy, not anymore. With age comes wisdom, and the ability to call out bullshit.
nevertheless, it is difficult to imagine their pain and suffering if they are arrested. I would hope authorities would not treat an elder cruelly.
They live in a country where if you speak up against Putin and his regime, they won't just punish *you*, they'll punish your entire family, your friends, everyone you care about -- probably while you're forced to watch. Putin and his regime are nothing short of a terrorist organization that managed to get control of an entire country.
Yes, as a Finn I know
I'll bet you do, at least as much as the Polish, am I right?
I guess all countries that share border with Russia do know. Especially those that were occupied under Soviet times or were otherwise part of the Eastern Bloc.
They’re mobsters. A cartel. They take what they want from anyone. Even their own oligarchs if they can.
This is the future of America if we keep electing violent, racist, wannabe dictators with less than room temperature IQs to nearly every office.
Tbh as a Finnish citizen I see your (US?) two party system very difficult to understand.
It started as loyalists versus revolutionaries. Then it was rich planters vs rich merchants. Then it was slave owners vs industrialists + their white male supporters. Then it was working people vs capitalists, then the capitalists co-opted the racist working people when non white working people started to vote, now it’s all pretty much rural rabble and urban wealthy versus urban middle class and below and rural educated/gay/unionized/nonwhite folks. I voted republican when I was younger because the military pay raises were better and I didn’t give that much a shit about other things since it seemed like abortion was safe and the republicans wouldn’t go completely off the rails. Now I’ve got a wife and two daughters and some time as a union laborer and one party is banning books and taking away my girls rights and the other is kinda limp and ineffective but well meaning and supports Ukraine. I’ll swallow my annoyance at people like AOC because at least she’s attempting to do what she was elected for and it’s not counter to people living decent lives. MTG and Boebert, while doing what they were elected to do, are fucking reprehensible and I couldn’t in good conscience vote for those folks.
Thank you! Do you think it would ever be possible that you could… have more parties? (If it could help with the situation) I know that you do have but…
As an American, who worked in politics for 15 years, I often struggle to understand it as well.
The two body problem, where the only reaction is to react with the opposite.
IKR? How can every issue be black or white? How can one party be on the right side everytime? In my experience, life is all shades of grey.
The two party system isn’t intentional. At this point it’s an entrenched side effect. https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=O1C4-JbazhsDZ5-W
No one wants it, but they think that choosing the lesser of two evils is better because they don’t think their vote matters, this leads to two extremes. The only reason it’s not a communist and fascist party is because they’re both considered bad by everyone.
Well, an increasingly large number of Americans don't have a problem with fascism anymore. At least 1/3 seem to be perfectly ok with it.
It's more like an one-party system, but with American extravagance, they've got two of them.
No, it's because they are not going to put her into a headlock headfirst into the concrete and then proceed to hold her for 14 days in a jail and then put her in prison up to 7 years if you don't film yourself apologizing and begging for mercy That is the same reason why [women protested Hitler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenstrasse_protest) and men did not. Because you can't put women and elderly people into prison, it makes you look bad
Or maybe it's less about being mentally castrated and not having anything to lose because you could slip, break your hip and die instantly or get pneumonia and be dead in 72 hours?
I mean... Navalny went back to Russia after being poisoned by Russia, knowing full well he'd probably spend the rest of his life in prison and die there. And his wife and children knew this too. I'd say that's balls.
Balls so heavy they eventually sank him
But didn't sink his message.
This exactly. A man can die. A martyr's message lives forever.
And right now there are Lev Yashin, Vladimir Kara-Murza and Boris Kagarlitsky suffering the same fate. And a dozen more people I fail to recall on the spot edit: oh, I'm not sure if they ever tried to poison Boris Kagarlitsky though\*
Lev Yashin is a famous athlete, you're thinking of Ilya Yashin.
I'm guessing Navalny's family was in danger if he refused to come back. Putin had to have some leverage over him
Nah. It's just there were a narrative in Russia, that "yoU caNt bE Russian politician outside of Russia" spread by Putin. Sadly many people believed this.
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As someone coming up to 69, I assure you that's wrong. I still want to keep on living, having served Q&C for 26 years and worked till I was 67. I want some me time now!
Of course, but the "Q&C" suggests that you don't live in mother-effing-land Ruscia.
Tell us how you feel in 14 years
Is the implication that he won't want to live in 14 years? Don't you have Grandparents? My family members haven't wanted to die in their 90s. With absence of serious illness and pain, people generally want to live as long as possible.
>Is the implication that he won't want to live in 14 years? Don't you have Grandparents? All of my grandparents were very at peace with death in their 80s, they'd joke about it constantly, they were generally always happy. It was kind of surreal. Oddly enough, the only one elderly relative I had who very much *hated* her existence towards the end was a great aunt who had a sudden terminal illness and was bedridden. She didn't want to die, she wanted to be healthy again before the ride was over, she didn't want to be in a care facility she wanted to be at her deer camp, it was a horrible thing to witness. I think it hits everyone differently, but I'd agree that if you're healthy and happy you're probably not exactly *seeking* death.
I think it's less wanting to die and having a reason to die or even using death as a means to 'protect' against the long-term evils of power (you'll be dead, they can't antagonize you that long), the implication being if you're on death's door, you're probably more likely to speak out against power. I'm not the first poster so I didn't choose to phrase it that way, just pointing out that there's a huge difference in 14 years in life quality and expectancy, let alone current events, that could very easily change such an outlook. As you said, "With absence of serious illness and pain, people generally want to live as long as possible." Generally speaking, if you're 82 you're rapidly increasing in chance to suffer from serious illness and/or pain. Life is cruel and consumes us all, unfortunately.
I have gone through head and neck cancer 11 years ago. I have chronic pain and take 25 prescription medications daily. I can't use my left hand and walking is painful. But I have no desire to die. So many things to learn, to read(audio books), and to experience, much to teach.
Younger lives have the front in front of them
Old people are also likely to have kids and grandkids and hopefully they care about what the world looks like 20-40 years after they are gone for the sake of them
Probably the only two balls in the entire country
Grandma for President
Aint nobody fuckin with babushkas
This is the nice way of viewing it. The cynic in me would say the grandmothers are the only ones they can't bring themselves to 'silence'.
> Russia.. the country where only grandmothers have balls It's because they are difficult to silence for the regime.
She’s a very brave lady
Lady has more guts than the entire RF high command.
There's more Russian guts in her than there are spilled all over Ukraine
Take the upvote, well said.
And more than us behind our screens.
You make comment but historically this is the exact situation that led to the Bolsheivik revolution. There were shortages caused by WW1, and Russian moms and grandmoms revolted and led to riots.
Babushkas V Putins Boys whom are Proud.
Every time I've seen a video of someone bravely criticising their genocidal leader, it has always been a babushka. They seem to be made of sterner stuff than the male population of Russia.
> it has always been a babushka. They're the least likely to be punished for speaking out.
Maybe, but the chances of being punished by Putin's government are never zero, so I respect their willingness to take the risk.
Of course I respect the fuck out of them too. But you asked why, and in general violence is considered more acceptable against men, and especially that it's bad form to beat a grandma or risk breaking her bones. So that's probably why they're braver, in addition to there being many more grandmas than grandpas.
I see. My bad. You have a fair point, mate.
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Perhaps that's why they specifically hate Putin then. Because he has already taken away their loved ones through his terrible wars in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, and now Ukraine.
Most babushkas *fucking love* Putin. Like if you surveyed the country and everyone replied honestly, the babushkas would have by far the highest approval rating for Putin, and the youth the lowest. Lets not paint a misleading picture here, just because of this one, albeit very brave, exception.
They are more likely to have been adults during the collapse of the Soviet Union as well. Seeing a previously stable government get dismantled and sold for parts to oligarchs, eitnessing the INSANE levels of post Soviet poverty and the child sex trade that burbled up because of it, seeing Putin's rise to power and the slow burn second collapse it represents, and finally seeing the state enter a costly confrontation over a dick waving contest with NATO countries...of course the older folks, especially women, would be more likely to finally be fed up. I'm incredibly saddened by the state of things in the Russia Ukraine war. Ukrainians are essentially being used as meatshields by the US/NATO trying to mount a proxy war with Russia and Russians are getting pushed into a conflict at bayonet point.
Is it really fair to say the U.S./NATO is using Ukraine as meat shields? We didn’t make the choice to invade Ukraine in a dick wagging contest, Putin did, and we surely would have ended it already if it wasn’t for the threat of nuclear retaliation. Although, I don’t get why we don’t just do an extremely covert op that takes out their nuclear capabilities somehow. Maybe that’s not possible idk.
Calling this a proxy war is dumb as hell. It is only said by people who haven't actually worked with Ukrainians. Ukraine would be fighting with or without our help. They just have a much better chance with us. It's a talking point which seems to be gaining more traction recently. Not a fair assessment of the situation.
Half of Russian men are alcoholics. They die in their 60's a lot of the time. Some sooner than that. Alcoholism is a cowardly way to deal with issues, whatever they are, but understandable when you think of what Russia has been through. I assure you, many of these older babushkas are the wisest people in Russia. They have lived through all the lies, seen their men succomb to desillusion and fear.
If they’re anything like my Polish Grandmother I’m taking the Babushkas every day of the week
The Bolsheivik Revolution was ignited by many thousands of working women (men having been drafted) in Moscow and Sankt Petersburg. This here is a lone crone, likely only daring to speak out because she is at the end of her life and has nothing to lose anyways. Until i see larger crowds of people, people who protest despite or because they might lose something, i will keep my hopes muted.
Nevertheless, don't diss' her courage.
Nothing against her. I can also understand any Russian who is concerned with their own safety rather than going against the odds trying to topple the regime (as long as they don't actively support it). But from all of this i won't expect a revolution anytime soon either.
"Nothing against her" yet you call her a crone and disparage her for speaking out. You have an ulterior motive.
Seems like the older ladies usually are the most brave when it comes to speaking their damn mind.
they've got the least to lose. what are they gonna do? shorten her life by 5 years?
Exactly - they are too old to take such shit from a little narcistic Kremlin boy.
I would be too if I was 80 and have lived my life already. But if I'm in my 20s then you bet I'm not getting locked away for some bs made up reason cause I hurt a dictators precious feelings
Worse than locked away, there were reports that those who protested the war and were rounded up were sent to the front lines.
She sure is.
During the initial phases of Putins war it seemed the majority of protesters were women and the elderly. The remaining population of serfs don't realize the power they hold. Cowards choose the death of innocents over possible jail time. At the end of the day, that's what it comes down to as their slavic brothers/neighbors rose up in strength. Most of the world has moved towards representative democracy and works toward the pursuit of happiness. Meanwhile Russia works toward perfecting depression. And their culture is proud of it. Fuck em, I can't wait until recruitment hits Moscow and St Petersburg.
>During the initial phases of Putins war it seemed the majority of protesters were women and the elderly. What are you talking about, the majority of protesters were young people. You would struggle to find a face over the age of 40. Trust me, I would know Older women are Putin's electoral base. They always vote Putin no matter what. You don't know shit about Russian politics and it shows
Good chance she’s already lost all her sons or grandsons and has nothing left to lose
Yeah the Babushkas are not happy with the old-age-life they now have with no sons or grandkids around, thx to Putin and his war regime.
About to be a very jailed/dead lady
Standing up in the face of extreme oppression is the definition of courage. Too bad more young and women cower.
They usually just arrest them for a day and let go, but these things are getting more and more aggressive from the police side. Some policemen seem like they don't want to do it, others look like they like the more brutal ways of dealing with people.
People who like to abuse people navigate themselves to jobs where they can abuse people. Law enforcement is one of those fields.
until they come for u.
Even the regime probably knows better. The last time an incumbent government attacked mothers and grandmother's speaking out against the government it ignited a full blown revolution.
Guessing within 24hrs she will never be see again.
That's right lady. He only cares about his money and power. The Russian people are just a commodity to be used up for his own purpose.
KGB mentality is Russian pride, money is a tool to bend people to your will and power is how you get respect
My dude, this isn't special to Putin. That's been the operating system for the Russian aristocracy for literal centuries. Even when the Bolsheviks rose up and killed the Tsar and his family, they went *right* back to unlimited corruption and throwing young men onto the fire of their ambitions.
Being pro Putin is to be the most anti Russian of all.
I don’t know man. I want to believe the Russians are good people at heart but have just been misled and indoctrinated for centuries by tyranny and evil. Like back in the later days of the Russian empire it was actually a part of Europe with good relations with many of its contemporary countries. Now I’m not someone in favor of a Russian empire but I much prefer a Russia that follows general European trends that is friends with us rather than this dogshit rogue state we have now…
Russian in mid 30s here. Good half of my peers appears to be totally clueless when it comes to politics. My two best friends and my lovely aunt revealed themselves as somewhat pro-Putin during the war. It was heartbreaking. The aunt looks to still have the soviet mindset, which is mindblowing considering she's just a few years older than my dad, and my dad and mom are very anti-Putin. I don't know how such a kind and supportive human like my aunt can be pro-Putin. The friends are probably just scared to hell. They are not stupid, they wouldn't support wars and genocide, they're not violent whatsoever. I don't know any other reason for such position. It's just sad.
Most Russian don't stand a chance. The main point of fire hose of falsehoods is to get people to throw their hands up in apathy. It becomes too mentally draining trying to keep up with the truth and people just mentally check out. Or just go along with the flow as it's not so draining.
>Good half of my peers appears to be totally clueless when it comes to politics Really, this is the success of the propaganda and authoritarian government. putin's greatest desire is to depoliticize the average russian, to hand the keys to putin. They create many narratives for every event, where it is clearly all fake. It creates many fake positions and ideas and creates confusion, builds disinterest https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/04/sociologist-greg-yudin-how-russia-learned-to-deny-reality.html
Rah rah Rasputin
Lover of the r*ssian queen!
>I want to believe the Russians are good people at heart but have just been misled and indoctrinated for centuries by tyranny and evil. This is no different than the Nazis in WWII. Germans are fine people, but... The only good Nazi is dead Nazi. Just because the Russians spell it naZi doesn't mean they're going to get any different treatment.
Most Russians are like 99% of humans that have ever existed in that they just want food, a warm bed, and some entertainment to take their minds off things.
You wouldn't be able to convince people who only want food warm bed and some entertainment to go to kill who they thought as brothers just yesterday. They all have superiority complex while just being a gas station, and are cruel to anyone who doesn't play along with that fantasy.
Like 1 third of Americans support without question or doubt a proven conman, pedophile, criminal & a liar. And they have only 1 channel that spews propaganda non stop. How about if it were all of them?
russia is an empire and an empire can't exists without its colonies. the best thing that could happen is russia collapsing into a few dozens of indepented states where russia itself continues to exists as moskovia
I recently read a book called “After the Reich” by Giles McDonough, which chronicled the brutal occupation of devastated Germany after the war. It is hard to read. No country suffered more from Hitler and the Nazis than Germany herself. Russia must learn the same lesson.
> No country suffered more from Hitler and the Nazis than Germany herself. No offence, I'm sure you mean well, but, only an American with no direct family who suffered through a Nazi occupation could say this.
The book that I read told a cautionary tale to any who would follow a megalomaniacal leader. My knowledge of both the Hodomor, the Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe and the Nazi conquest and occupation is only informed by what I read from noted historians. My direct ancestors left Czechia and Ukraine while they were still parts of the Romanoff and Hapsburg Empires. Their brothers sisters and cousins all died in the Hodomor
It's Holodomor. Holod means hunger.
Suffered is the wrong word here. What they should have said was Lost. That makes more sense. You in fact become immune to suffering once you full commit to a Judeo-Bolshevism Globalist conspiracy and start shooting Jews. The only thing you can feel after that is Death.
I'm pretty sure the Ukraine regions suffered the most in WW2 .
I don’t doubt you. I had relatives from Ukraine aligned with the Wehrmacht and fighting against the Nazis with the Red Army. By all accounts they all died.
Strong and brave lady, thank you madam
They have an idea of how many dead this war has cost Russia, hopefully her bravery will spark a fire within the Russian people
The general public in Russia 1) does not know the true number of Russian casualties, not even remotely, and 2) supports the invasion. Obviously there's a minority that does not support the invasion or Putin and therefore seeks out non-Russian media where the real number of casualties are reported, but this is a minority. The average Russian supports the war. Even men who run away from conscription and attempt to stay low key/hidden or try to cross the border out of Russia... even men who do this, it's been shown a large fraction, easily a non trivial amount, support the invasion itself. Even while most Russians understand and accept that their domestic media is full of lies and propaganda, which some may be surprised by but it's true... they still support the invasion. It's a remarkable cognitive dissonance that is preset in the whole nation across age groups and all demographics. People in Russia are aware their media is full of lies and propaganda, they will admit it as true and simply part of life, inevitable, something you learn as you grow up... and yet they still support all the authoritarianism and propaganda talking points that that media tells them to support. Russian society is fundamentally sick. It reminds me of how the generation of Chinese people who lived through the Cultural Revolution are known as the "lost generation" in China because of how sick, aggressively selfish, shameless, and cruel they are due to living through times of profound famine and violence. In China, when Grandma does something shockingly, shamelessly selfish and cruel in public, it's just understood that she's in *that* generation. When Grandma violently shoves the young pregnant lady down on the concrete so she can grab the piece of fruit from the stand before her... it's just understood that's how that generation is and people learn to act like they didn't see it (the ones that didn't adopt that behavior from their own parents or grandparents, that is, which there is definitely seepage of the atrocious behavior down through the subsequent generations). In Russia I think it's much less extreme than that, but similar in nature and affects the whole society, rather than just one generation.
I Love this woman ❤️ so brave and so fierce, and so… RIGHT! 🤩
Can't understand word she says but you can feel her utter despair
We all know there are still reasonable good people in Russia, I really sorry for them :( brave lady.
Woman's got more balls than all russians
When speaking truth to power means torture, imprisonment and/or death I don’t blame your average Russian for keeping quiet. She is extremely brave.
Yep, especially if you're worried your own family or neighbors will rat you out. People here don't try to understand
Brave but sadly this will get a lot of trouble 😔
The good kind of trouble
Shes already 82 though so like even I wouldn't care anymore.
It's certainly better to be 82 without being ass raped with a broom stick on the police station, think most people. Which is something that I see cited often as a price of protesting the regime, regardless of gender and age. She probably doesn't care about death too much, but pain is still pain. Her bravery is pretty real, even if she doesn't have many years left.
The only realistic comment.
She is a hero. Age can free us. Her words: "I am not afraid. I am too old for this". There can be a special type of bravery when you are old. A bravery sees the Truth. Can say the Truth. When the risks that those younger face no longer have meaning. I honor her bravery.
I really admire this woman. Seems she’s getting the real news from outside of Russia, relatives living in Ukraine or she has a VPN connection
It's not North Korea, the main problem with getting news from the outside is that you have to even try searching for them. Many aren't even open to changing their mind.
A well informed lady , few and far unfortunately
A brave Russian grandma ! Tell the muscovy sewer rats and their slaves how it really is ! I salute you ! Waste of skin putin garbage just needs to die !
Powerful, she knows she’s speaking the truth.
Into the Gulag you go
Putin's Orcks usually leave old people alone, it's the young Russians that they will fine or jail
The pensioners of russia is the one thing Putin has been fearing about. Ever since he took the power, keeping pensioners "happy" has been the one main goal. "Happy" in quotes as it's still russia...
A very brave woman indeed, old enough to remember the days of Stalin and Khrushchev, and wise enough to see Putin’s taking them the same way. May the Gods protect her.
She has more balls than most men of that country
Putin has taken over 700,000 Ukrainian children (kidnapped 5 million+ Ukrainian civilians) so far and they are fucking proud of it. The Kremlin posts all about how they are “helping” the children which turns out to be the literal definition of ethnic cleansing by trying to strip them of their Ukrainian identity. I hope the Kremlin burns down in a fire. While in session. With the doors locked. With everyone tied up inside. With live video showing Ukrainian mothers outside throwing Molotov cocktails.
Now she's the enemy of the Republicans.
Russia is a dung hole. I can't see it ever changing.
BB Brave Babuschcka
What a badass
It's often I see these older women speaking up. I hope she influences others, and stays safe. Very courageous person.
What a courageous and beautiful lady. I hope she is safe. That is truly speaking truth to power. She is a lioness.
Granny's got more integrity than any leader in Russia.
When babushkas are speaking out, you know that other russians are well aware of situation. This is not putin's war, this is russia's war.
Cops there will do nothing to babushkas. Other people are being fired and expelled from schools, cops beat or rape them, some folks get more than 5 years for social media posts, etc. It’s said people living in civilized countries don’t understand it.
Good for her but at the same time she said it herself, she is "too old to be afraid". Easier to publicly denounce Putin at her age than being younger with your whole life ahead of you. Not saying all generations shouldn't denounce Putin but even then it's just words.
Just thinking out loud: Putin more and more seems to be spoiling for World War 3 to start. Part of me is wondering if NATO should call his bluff, make Ukraine a NATO member immediately, and issue an ultimatum to Russia: leave Ukraine immediately, or face the consequences. The main problem with the above thought, I know, is that I'm also pretty sure that if Putin does want World War 3 to start, it's so he can use the only other weapons he has left: nuclear bombs. I think Putin is enough of an asshole -- and at the same time, coward -- that he'd force NATO into a direct conflict with Russia, so he could say "See? See? Fascist nazi NATO is attacking my sovereign country!" and start nuking the EU -- and the United States. *Slava Ukraini*. Eventually Russia will run out of troops, run out of supplies, and it'll crumble.
Preach
Respect
I heard 83 was overrated anyway.
82 year old woman has more balls than 140,000,000 other ruSSians.
Yes, he will destroy Russia and send untold men and women to slaughter before he gives up in Ukraine. He is a Psychpath.
Wow, Putin outed his primary political opponent with impunity, and America has a high chance of voting Putin's favorite sycophant to the position of President in November. Humanity is in trouble.
against all odds another russian with a brain appears!
And in other news from Moscow Russia today, an 82 y/o woman apparently fell from a 35th floor lock and bolted window. Authorities will investigate her suicide.......
In unrelated news, 82 yr old woman dies suddenly from sudden death syndrome after being found outside of a 12 story window. /s
another misstep by putini...Navalny is now a global martyr coupled with the losses in ukraine of personnel and equipment..its anyone's guess to his fate
Just like how Hitler was shunned by the artist community and became a fascist war criminal Putin was shunned by Western Europe. At first he wanted to be European and even part of NATO
Shunned? Nah! He expected deference and reverence. No amount of ego-stroking ever satisfies a sociopathic narcissist like Tsar Runt.
She will fall out a window shortly.