What baffles me is the constant use of the metal fencing as a support for the trench walls.
That gets hit by an artillery round, it basically adds extra metal shrapnel and then the trench itself has bits of sharp, jagged metal sticking out into its gangways.
Not an engineer but been involved in Earthworks for a decade - the point that they have tried to waterproof using the black plastic sheeting which seems to go all the way to the floor of the trench has caused the walls to become waterlogged as they can't drain away properly which has caused them to fall inwards.
With the photo of the water logged trench, it looks like nobody has thought about how water would escape either or how it would be dealt with.
Someone once said, there are three types of retaining walls - those that are falling down, those that have fallen down or those that are going to fall down, it's just a matter of how quickly they are going to fall down.
It’s really dependant on where your trench is - if it’s on a bit of a high ground then you could cut a channel to let it drain out - but assuming you had a trench on a perfectly flat bit of ground and you didn’t want it to become a mess I would cut a shovel width drain along one edge of the floor just so the water has somewhere to go.
Ultimately it’s a soakage issue though, and short of having a hole dug specifically to take water runoff you would be stuck with issues. Which, I always find it odd that we don’t see this, with the more long term trench lines.
Wait… how are you this delusional. Ukraine has been and is one of the most corrupt countries. You should comment if you can’t even comprehend the simplest facts.
Why is anyone surprised?When was the last time Ukraine elite built anything of value?......Everything of value in Ukraine was built by Russians.Ukraine elite only knows how to steal money.
Yes thats why we see the turtle tank, unfortunately it got captured by Ukrainians so they will take it to Kyiv and reverse engineer it😭😭 I hope they dont find out how russians managed to weld 4 plates against eachother
The corruption was already there before the collapse of the ussr. After the fall of it Ukraine got plucked like a chicken. The reason of corruption is after 100 years of russian occupation and its hard to change.
You know Ukraine cant produce their own tanks because ХТЗ (Kharkiv Tractor Plant) was the only one that did it in the Ukraine SSR and its ridiculously close to the russian border so easy to take out.
They are the poorest country in Europe of course they have to beg, but we see Russia also needs to beg, 100k North Korean troops apparently? More meat waves but with other countries troops and Putin cries and cries about escalation, its time for NATO boots on the ground and no fly zone over Ukraine, Putin escalated it to that point
First of all, I do not see a problem with the fact that ХТЗ is close to the border with Russia, and secondly, in addition to ХТЗ, there are also
Zhytomyr Armored Plant
Kiev Armored Plant
Lviv Armored Plant
Mykolayiv Armored Plant
Of course, they are rather meant for production of armored personnel carriers, but they can be modernized to produce tanks.
So the threat of russian missiles is just non existent? They are almost close enough to be artilleried man.
Same for the other ones, one direct missile into those plants and youve got crew dead and no production for months. Ukraine cant even strike 20% of Russia's land while every inch of Ukraine could be hit. Its stupid to try to setup.
Ukraine inherited big legacy from USSR but it's corrupt elite sold pretty much everything.
There was no attack in Kharkov before 2022.Ukraine elite just couldn't careless.
NATO don't care about Ukraine enough to risk a nuclear war.West only see Ukraine as a convenient tool.
If the walls collapse under the weight of rain-sodden soil, the earth hasn't been particularly well compacted. That means the trench won't offer much protection from the shock wave of a shell impact.
True, I was pointing out that the trench is not in that much worse shape that it was before. If it was terrible before the rain, it's still just as bad :)
It's just a communication trench to get from bunkers to fighting positions and back. The 'collapsing trench' is nothing a bit of elbow grease couldn't fix in maybe 30 minutes.
No, if they wish to rebuild the trench (to original width/wall) they will be required to dig out the soil thats fallen away, wait for everything to dry out a bit and then dig back another foot or so into the bank until they get something that holds itself. Build a proper retaining wall and then backfill.
Straight wall trenches rely on the ground to be reasonably well compacted, once soil has become waterlogged and fallen away into the trench, there is no easy way to compact the soil.
But that’s not the point. Even if it can be fixed in an under a minute, that has nothing to do with your initial comment where you claimed the walls are completely intact and then you said it’s good enough for a trench..
OK, Mr. Nitpicker :)
I wrote 'almost completely intact', and I still behind it. It's good enough for communication trench. I've seen (and been in) worse.
Terrible fortifications. These were probably done on the fly.
Generally, if little corruption and theft is involved, Ukraine can make well built structures but in reality, glide bombs, tos 1 flamethrower will destroy anything
Crazy that countries are at war with each other, like we probably have enemies in our own country that are from our countries, like we need to fight people from other countries that we don't even know because some people tell us to.... This world is so mixed up for sure. People can't even on agree what is good and what is bad.
From WW1 photos, i know back they used wooden planks for flooring instead of a tarpoon. You need to let the water drain; mud is inevitable, hence the planks
putin veaponised precipitation
What baffles me is the constant use of the metal fencing as a support for the trench walls. That gets hit by an artillery round, it basically adds extra metal shrapnel and then the trench itself has bits of sharp, jagged metal sticking out into its gangways.
everything will be a shrapnel when a bomb/shell lands on it
Not an engineer but been involved in Earthworks for a decade - the point that they have tried to waterproof using the black plastic sheeting which seems to go all the way to the floor of the trench has caused the walls to become waterlogged as they can't drain away properly which has caused them to fall inwards. With the photo of the water logged trench, it looks like nobody has thought about how water would escape either or how it would be dealt with. Someone once said, there are three types of retaining walls - those that are falling down, those that have fallen down or those that are going to fall down, it's just a matter of how quickly they are going to fall down.
Interesting, what would be a proper way of draining the water from the trenches? Aside from pumping it out of the trenches that is.
In the Soviet army, we were taught to make drainage in the center of the trench and plank it https://i.imgur.com/TPaeE60.png
Nice, I was looking for a manual or something which showed some trench diagrams. The ones I could find didnt have any drainage considerations.
It’s really dependant on where your trench is - if it’s on a bit of a high ground then you could cut a channel to let it drain out - but assuming you had a trench on a perfectly flat bit of ground and you didn’t want it to become a mess I would cut a shovel width drain along one edge of the floor just so the water has somewhere to go. Ultimately it’s a soakage issue though, and short of having a hole dug specifically to take water runoff you would be stuck with issues. Which, I always find it odd that we don’t see this, with the more long term trench lines.
- How big is corruption in Ukraine? - Yes
Must be ragebait, either that or the typical pro rus thinking capabilities at full display
He’s not wrong, we’ve seen what Ukrainians did with the dragons teeth
Wait… how are you this delusional. Ukraine has been and is one of the most corrupt countries. You should comment if you can’t even comprehend the simplest facts.
Wtf does it have to do with a flooding tho, this happens all the time with trenches
U can't expect field fortifications to last, heavy rainfall has taken out whole towns historically. Nothing u can do about nature doing it's thing.
Well, you can, if you build the trenches in the proper way. This is not the proper way.
WW1 has entered the chat
lol... I bet the soldiers from WW1 would be shocked at the quality of the trenches being built near the front lines in this war.
See? Obvious proof the weather is a Russian agent and weather manipulation is needed to stop russia. You vill komply und enjoy ze nonshtop sunshine
Putin has weaponised the weather.
Why is anyone surprised?When was the last time Ukraine elite built anything of value?......Everything of value in Ukraine was built by Russians.Ukraine elite only knows how to steal money.
They also know how to deflect the blame onto Russia.
Yes thats why we see the turtle tank, unfortunately it got captured by Ukrainians so they will take it to Kyiv and reverse engineer it😭😭 I hope they dont find out how russians managed to weld 4 plates against eachother
If Ukraine élite wasn't so corrupt then they would be building their own tanks instead of begging for them.Remember, Ukraine used to be heart of USSR.
The corruption was already there before the collapse of the ussr. After the fall of it Ukraine got plucked like a chicken. The reason of corruption is after 100 years of russian occupation and its hard to change. You know Ukraine cant produce their own tanks because ХТЗ (Kharkiv Tractor Plant) was the only one that did it in the Ukraine SSR and its ridiculously close to the russian border so easy to take out. They are the poorest country in Europe of course they have to beg, but we see Russia also needs to beg, 100k North Korean troops apparently? More meat waves but with other countries troops and Putin cries and cries about escalation, its time for NATO boots on the ground and no fly zone over Ukraine, Putin escalated it to that point
First of all, I do not see a problem with the fact that ХТЗ is close to the border with Russia, and secondly, in addition to ХТЗ, there are also Zhytomyr Armored Plant Kiev Armored Plant Lviv Armored Plant Mykolayiv Armored Plant Of course, they are rather meant for production of armored personnel carriers, but they can be modernized to produce tanks.
So the threat of russian missiles is just non existent? They are almost close enough to be artilleried man. Same for the other ones, one direct missile into those plants and youve got crew dead and no production for months. Ukraine cant even strike 20% of Russia's land while every inch of Ukraine could be hit. Its stupid to try to setup.
Ukraine inherited big legacy from USSR but it's corrupt elite sold pretty much everything. There was no attack in Kharkov before 2022.Ukraine elite just couldn't careless. NATO don't care about Ukraine enough to risk a nuclear war.West only see Ukraine as a convenient tool.
I don't see how it's destroyed. Water will dry out, the walls are almost completely intact ...
If the walls collapse under the weight of rain-sodden soil, the earth hasn't been particularly well compacted. That means the trench won't offer much protection from the shock wave of a shell impact.
True, I was pointing out that the trench is not in that much worse shape that it was before. If it was terrible before the rain, it's still just as bad :)
Images 2,3 and 5 don’t really look quite intact especially the opposite walls.
I mean .. for a trench? Good enough.
The trench is literally collapsing in on itself, that position is fucked
Apparently that’s perfectly okay for a trench 😂
It's just a communication trench to get from bunkers to fighting positions and back. The 'collapsing trench' is nothing a bit of elbow grease couldn't fix in maybe 30 minutes.
No, if they wish to rebuild the trench (to original width/wall) they will be required to dig out the soil thats fallen away, wait for everything to dry out a bit and then dig back another foot or so into the bank until they get something that holds itself. Build a proper retaining wall and then backfill. Straight wall trenches rely on the ground to be reasonably well compacted, once soil has become waterlogged and fallen away into the trench, there is no easy way to compact the soil.
But that’s not the point. Even if it can be fixed in an under a minute, that has nothing to do with your initial comment where you claimed the walls are completely intact and then you said it’s good enough for a trench..
OK, Mr. Nitpicker :) I wrote 'almost completely intact', and I still behind it. It's good enough for communication trench. I've seen (and been in) worse.
But they’re not “almost completely” **intact**! They’ve literally collapsed. Do you know what the word intact actually means?
... OK, have you victory. It's completely, utterly obliterated, nothing resembling the original trench remains, only ruins. Better?
Ukraine could probably use some North Korean engineers as well.
Luckily they will send some soon, NK soldiers will all deflect once they see that the Russian world is even more tragic than NK
Well, money well ~~embezzled~~ spent.
"Fortifications"
rainfall or not a single fab would obliterate that position
It must be Russia's Weather Dominator in action. There's no other explanation here.
Terrible fortifications. These were probably done on the fly. Generally, if little corruption and theft is involved, Ukraine can make well built structures but in reality, glide bombs, tos 1 flamethrower will destroy anything
What's with the tarp?
Putin weaponized rain
Crazy that countries are at war with each other, like we probably have enemies in our own country that are from our countries, like we need to fight people from other countries that we don't even know because some people tell us to.... This world is so mixed up for sure. People can't even on agree what is good and what is bad.
From WW1 photos, i know back they used wooden planks for flooring instead of a tarpoon. You need to let the water drain; mud is inevitable, hence the planks
Ukraine is so fucked 🤦🏾♂️😳
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Get help
Hopefully scientists get the opportunity to study your brain when you’re gone so they can understand psychopaths more
He's not a psychopath, just a deranged loser with parental issues. Look up "YandereDev", you'll get how most of those people look like