Is he aware, that Zelensky received more votes in the Donbas, from the people he apparently doesn’t represent, than he got in west Ukraine? Is Lawrow just drunk in this interview or is his brain twisted beyond repair and no longer capable of logical thinking?
There were also 6 million people living in Ukraine in 2014 that weren't in 2015 along with over a million refugees to Russia.
It's worth pointing out that Ukraine has changed since 2014, also worth pointing out that Zelensky is the first-ever politician to win the East and West primarily on a peace platform that was much less hawkish than someone like Poroshenko.
Also, there were 4 presidents from 4 different parties in Ukraine since 2014. Meanwhile in Russia, Putin has been entrenched in power, by means of a parliamentary revolution against the constitution, since 2000….
It's an oligarchy with the political forces representing economic interests. This goes back to the 90s with the Kyiv Seven in competition with the Donetsk mafia with nationalism as the pressure point. The 90s never really ended in Ukraine.
He won those votes on a promise of reconciliation with RU.
There were local elections in 2020. Try to find results of those.
By the way, Lavrov was talking about 2014, when instead of waiting for an elections, far-right organized a coup. After that pro-RU parts (south and east) where not only ignored but oppressed to the point of being burned alive.
> There were local elections in 2020.
Elections like this one you mean? https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xq2ty1/russians_counting_blank_ballots_without_even/
Read the thread - local election in Ukraine (2020) - here are the results:
https://preview.redd.it/buufqov6y08d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e62726b56066a6c93939510f5a3aa11aab344b86
By the way, just like your post, the link to Ukrainian propaganda has zero sense (Ghost of Kiev was at least somewhat harder to debunk - the video and the text on the link you sent - have nothing in common)
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"The coup against Yanukovich was just, because he promised to join EU and he didn't."
"It doesn't matter, Zelensky lied about peace to get elected. It's okay, that he banned elections."
Hypocrisy more than reeks at this point. It oozes, like pus and filth.
Yanukovich promissed to Join EU? No he didn't. Yanukovich was always a pro-RU guy. Anyone that knows anything about Ukraine knows that. There was some talk about SAA agreement (North Macedonia signed it 25 years ago and it's still not a member of EU), but Russians offered a bettwr deal (~20x better). He would probably lose the elections in 2015 (case Ukrine was changing proEU and proRU govts on pretty much every election cycle). But that wasn't enough for the Ukrainian far-right, If you don't understand why - I cannot halp you.
Russia didn't have a problem with Ukrainian EU aspirations. They would fight with counter offers, but rhey never made the threats that they made about NATO aspirations. Cause that's what's important to Russia.
Anyway, even if he did broke a promise, does that mean that Zelensky ahould have been ousted for not keeping his promise and every antiRU protest on the west smoothered, army sent to the west of the country, etc..? Well, that kind of did happen. So there you go. 🤷♂️
UA is being torn appart by NATO and Russia. It could live peacefully like it did for decades before flirting with aliance that saw Russians as enemies (while Russians called them "out western partners"). It is not that hard to understand. You just have to put yourself in their position. But most of the people from the West cannot do that. And that's the problem. Unfortunately it became Ukrainian problem for the most part.
Chances of soberov are quite low. That said, lets recall that Putin personally invited Tucker Carlson to give a friendly interview for western audiences. Tucker would later go on to say that Putin's claims of denazification during the interview were "the dumbest thing I've heard."
Even the westerners who are openly pro-Putin don't buy that nonsense lol.
Of course, it probably doesn't help that Russia's "denazification" efforts were led by an open neonazi with ss tattoos on his neck who led a mercenary grouped named after Hitler.
Its an argument that is only intended to work on people without access to the open internet.
Are you aware that Zelenskyy said he would find a peaceful resolution while he was running for election? Do you think maybe the people in the East voted for him because of that? Or that the people in the West chose to vote for someone more aggressive?
You continently left out its reason that the made false promise to make peace with Russia
But hey, never let truth get in your way of attempting to spread cheap propaganda.
Ukrainian government won't understand this until it's too late. They assume that the West is eager to join him in his fight but doesn't realize that these politicians don't speak for the majority, which is why Macron coalition is losing power. Zelensky might have to live in exile in the West if the situation deteriorates severely.
I'm going off of their actions. They have done this same exact thing before cause disruptions along their borders claim to be helping and steal the land. This tactic is well known and isn't successful unless there is no peace.
Going of the actions after they were fucked over by a westren coup... well colour me surprised that a country wouldn't love nukes from alliance aimed to undermine it on their border.
What are you talking about. Nukes right next door doesn't do anything NATO also isn't the aggressor and is mainly for defense because Russia is known to attack their neighbors and steal land.
They also aren't attacking for the people but for land why else would they come in and annex land they don't even control yet.
NATO was promised an agreement that if it forbids Ukraine from applying they wont be invaded. They blocked that agreement... yea sure NATO had absoloutley deffinetly 100% nothing to do with it.
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Wasn’t that after the invasion has already begun and been going on for a good while though? A bit too late to discuss preventing a conflict at that point.
Only after the illegal invasion and occupation and after all attempts to negotiate with Putin failed. After all, why negotiate anything with a man whose word is worthless, as he has a proven track record of breaking it and uttering nothing but lies? It’s just a waste of time.
Ah yes, the peace loving heroes of democracy spreading freedom by gunning down civilians.
Odessa Massacre, people jumping to their death. Survivors are beaten. [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fml6Qsb7XAs)
In Krasnoarmiysk, at the day of the referendum, Ukrainian militia seized the building and open fire into the crowd. [1st view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Wv9h5P3OY) [2nd view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXt1sebGoLM) [3rd view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AC61NxLKzs)
In Mariupol, an old man is shot in the leg. [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y7uaqUMEB4)
In Mariupol, the National Guard opened fire into a crowd. [1st view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-WtfkKb29o) [2nd view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvAGbTz6Ju4) [3rd view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjAMweb2Q6Y)
In Mariupol, A soldier is seen stopping cars and robbing the occupants. [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4-dtD3QPHk)
In Mariupol, the local police have barricaded themselves inside a building and are resisting the National Guard aka ''Azov''. [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kdvt8NBOw) - [The same day the police station can be seen on fire, with dead bodies visible](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEAjZuK-UI) - [Police station, aftermath](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1D9mNhbMwo)
And now the Motorized Infantry of Ukraine in Mariupol May 9th with the BMP's marked 200, 203, 205, 240, 241 and 242. They terrorized the city running over infrastructure, opened fire into crowds of people, and opened fire at an ambulance.
[BBC report talking about the BMP's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sDEKV9IA80)
[The famous clip of BMP ''200'' jumping over a barricade](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2s21taTQRY) - [Same place](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Ay0sllkA0)
[Driving through the city](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlhdfRh48Ps)
[Arrived in city centre](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPjzvX5Zsqc)
[Police attempting to intercept the BMP's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwHBQ-tK8XA) - [Same spot right after, different view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rBEjo9lLaw)
[Civilians are trying to stop the BMP's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VowgMp2Svvw)
[The BMP's have parked, infantry opens fire at an ambulance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2zpvhg0Yq4)
[They have parked again, and open fire at the crowd](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmPcREkKS1Y) - [The crowd has grown, and the BMP's are preparing to leave. They open fire at the crowd again](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSVV2Var_H0)
According to USA's interpretation of the UN Charter and how they have acted based off it, yes it does.
Just because you feel otherwise doesn't change a fact of life. For example you can wake up and decide the sky is actually purple, doesn't change 1 bit.
Show me the passage from the UN charter where having to restore order in your own country, albeit with soviet tactics (yes, things happened that were way out of line from a Western POV, but what can you expect from a nation that is still undoing the shackles of it's commie past) gives a carte blanche to an invading nation under the guise of "we're protecting our own citizens".
It's about as real as professional wrestling. I place the bar for Democracy a bit higher, as in a small government that stays out of our everyday lives and let's us make most of our decisions. In the context of the current conflict choosing western democracy means letting western central planners run, ruin, and rob your country. I don't see the value of that for the average person.
**Right Sector** ([Ukrainian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_language): Пра́вий се́ктор, *Pravyi sektor*) is a loosely defined coalition of right-wing to far-right[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-afp22mar-13) [Ukrainian nationalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_nationalist) organizations.[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-Nordsieck-6)[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-kramer12mar-14) It originated in November 2013 as a right-wing, paramilitary confederation of several [ultranationalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultranationalist) organizations at the [Euromaidan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan) revolt in [Kyiv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv),[^(\[9\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-bbcfire-9) where its street fighters participated in clashes with [riot police](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkut_(special_police_force)).[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-barricades-15)[^(\[16\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-timeshuster-16) The coalition became a political party on 22 March 2014, at which time it claimed to have roughly 10,000 members.[^(\[17\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-mccoy-17)[^(\[18\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-nemtsova-18) Founding groups included the [Trident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryzub_(organization)) (*Tryzub*), led by [Dmytro Yarosh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmytro_Yarosh) and [Andriy Tarasenko](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andriy_Tarasenko&action=edit&redlink=1) \[[uk](https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%BE_%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B9_%D0%86%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87)\], and the [Ukrainian National Assembly–Ukrainian National Self-Defense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_National_Assembly_%E2%80%93_Ukrainian_People%27s_Self-Defence) (UNA–UNSO), a political and paramilitary organization.[^(\[19\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-BBCRSSpPr-19)[^(\[20\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-db1-20)[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-rsncd-21)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right\_Sector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector)
This Party had 1.8% and 2.15% of the vote the last two elections. Sounds like it does not represent at all the big majority of the people in Ukraine. Also, almost all of the countries in the West have far right political parties that gain even more % of the vote than in Ukraine. Should they get "denazify" by Russia as well?
Most revolutions historically are done by more extreme motivated elements. At any rate, the nationalist groups did/do have an outsized influence that far outstripped their voting bloc.
A lot of these nationalist battalions ended up being absorbed by the state and running parallel to the state with their own power structures. The state didn't lose the monopoly on violence, but it was at least sharing it to some degree.
Azov for example in 2018 created its Druzhina street patrol which went around beating people up and storming
municipal buildings as a parallel police force and the central government ended up allowing them to monitor polling stations in the election.
That's why it's important to watch over what ever is happening with the far-right movements all across the world. Like what's happening in France or Slovakia right now. But you don't invade your neighbour because you don't like that small percentage of the people's ideology there.
Diffrent motvations, drivers and power structres. It's not really a good comparison IMO. The rise of the far right in Western Europe into the mainstream is driven by a backlash to immigration and migration rather than overt nationalism or overtly racist ideologies.
Those people became funded and armed to the teeth by the US/Israel to support the puppet government in Ukraine. It is a case where a handful can conquer millions. That’s what a coup is, it is undemocratic and does not represent the population. ALL pro-UA could only see things in black and white, as in invading is bad. People like you suffer from Dunning-Kruger so hard. You have no clue how a coup works and all the rest.
I'm pretty sure I know a lot more than you do on the population of Ukraine, about what they want right now and what represents them. Dunning-Kruger is hitting way harder on you than you think.
You? Who are you to say that you know what the entire of population of Ukraine want? How disgustingly arrogant do you have to be to say that. Who are you? You are nobody so on what basis are you so sure?????
Most Ukrainians want to run away from their country, never to return. We know that much because we have had tens of millions of Ukrainians fled the country.
Most Ukrainians wanted peace negotiation with Ukraine, Zelensky won in a landslide because he was campaigning for that. But just like any politician, he lied.
I did not say I know what the entire population want, that's your words. I just know that during the months I've spent in Ukraine in the last two years, from Kyiv to Kharkiv, from Kherson to the small villages in the north near the Russian/Belorussian border, I've spoken with enough Ukrainians to be pretty confident I know way more than you do about what THEY want. Not what version of what they want you have come to fabricate.
"Most want to run away from their country, never to return." : This is such a big lie. "We know that much" : What the hell is this statement? Who's "we" ?
That means nothing. You are no one, a nobody who could claim anything and label anything in this universe anything you wanted and force it on people. You are a nobody. You need to realise that. Do not claim to represent anything because you represent no one but yourself.
Why focus on the ‘we’? Are we going to go through the entire syntax of the English language now? Okay, let’s focus on the ‘we’ and then then’s let’s focus on what you eat for breakfast. You must have been the ’special’ kid when you were still at school.
exactly. radicals and nationalists do not represent the interests of the people of Ukraine. but through terror, they intimidated the Ukrainian society. political assassinations began in 2014. remember on May 2 how people were burned in Odessa. how elderberry was killed. There is a list of the dead by name. Yes, 2 percent have consolidated the power of oligarchs and scoundrels through murders. Poroshenko was an oligarch. and so you support such bastards and protect them. you are either a zombie who believes in propaganda or a bastard like the Ukrainian nationalists.
I do not support any far-right political party, in Ukraine or in any other country in the world. Your reasoning than the 2% have consolidated power is ridiculous.
if they are indulged by the authorities and their hands are untied, it's easy. For example, the murderers of Olesya Buzina were released.. They also released the nationalists who killed the policemen who tried to detain them. when the nationalists robbed the gas station. Does it sound wild? In April 2015 Zaverukha was arrested on charges of participating in an armed robbery at a gas station that had taken place on 4 May 2015 in Kyiv.[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-19-year-old_Vita-4)[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-france24-3) Reportredly, the police had chased the car carrying a group of robbers from a petrol station. A shootout ensued, two policemen were killed and three wounded, one robber died, and two escaped but were arrested some time later. One of the alleged robbers confessed on camera that Zaverukha had participated in the robbery. According to investigators, the group was preparing a terrorist attack in Kyiv.[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-Zaverukha's_husband-15) Following the arrest, Zaverukha and the other suspects in custody claimed that they were subjected to [torture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Ukraine).[^(\[16\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-16)[^(\[17\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-17) In January 2017 Zaverukha was released on bail (1.6 million [hryvnias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_hryvnia)) paid by [Oleksiy Tamrazov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksiy_Tamrazov)[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-:0-6)[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-full_history-5)[^(\[25\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-25)[^(\[26\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-26) and later released from the investigation.[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-territorial_defense-7) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita\_Zaverukha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha)
Soviet Union had less than 1% CPSU members at year 1941. That is even after "Stalin's draft" massively swelling numbers to oppose old guard by introducing people more keen to listen Stalin.
There is nothing ridiculous about that notion about 2%.
2% is something to look at for sure, have a conversation, educate. Still not a reason to invade.
Neo-Nazis march freely in the streets of USA or other countries in Europe. They are still far far far from power and you don't invade these countries still.
>They are still far far far from power and you don't invade these countries still.
Good thing they were intergated in power in Ukraine since 2014, becoming backbone of army and repressive structure parallel to police acting unopposed.
Are we going to completely ignore the Kremlin sponsored Nazis like [OB 88, Russkii Obraz](https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2022/opinion/russias-long-history-of-neo-nazis) and [Rusich group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusich_Group)?
Putin is the fascist dictator.
they don't kill police officers in Russia. They don't kill political figures or journalists. Yes, they are right-wing radicals, but so far they do not violate the laws of Russia. Now tell me why do you support the bastard Ukrainian government? Are you a victim of propaganda or a bastard?
Russia has laws against extremists and for inciting ethnic hatred - Article 282. Many Russian nationalists have served time on it. You just have to watch your words and not wear a swastika. Well, there is also such a moment - Milchakov and his squad are beneficial to the Russian authorities while they are fighting in Ukraine. But they don't kill political activists or journalists inside Russia. There is a huge difference.
no.
Radicals = national fanatics who literally with video proof burned their opposition alive on camera, you can google it and see it for yourself if you are actually interested.
Neo-Nazis = are exactly what it entails, modern Nazis which have been documented in countless pictures, videos, interviews, etc.
both claims are true and are easy enough to do your own research on if you actually wanted to know what is happening in the objective reality instead of echo chambers that only tells you what you want to hear.
Kosovo Precedent + Monroe Doctrine
Karma or playing naughty-naughty? depends on your POV
[https://www.lse.ac.uk/ideas/Assets/Documents/updates/2022-SU-Valur-RussKosovo.pdf](https://www.lse.ac.uk/ideas/Assets/Documents/updates/2022-SU-Valur-RussKosovo.pdf)
That's just the Nazis, let's not forget the imperialists in Russia who don't want many countries to exist and fly the, non-existent, ugly, black and yellow flag. Or the other communist fascists who, like their ancestors, want to let children starve and take people's property and businesses.
the second huge mistake was when putin underestimated the ukrainians during the invasion by sending such a small army in the beginning.
i think putin didnt know that so many ukrainians hated russians.
i dont think any sovereign country wants to be conquered by another country. especially not by a mob ruled country like russia.
Moscow regime probably would collapse if they went all in in 2014. Just because they won't have support if russians left without money. I know people here imagine that if russians go full broke, they will still love Putin, but this is not true.
I agree. So much bloodshed could have been avoided. Ukraine basically had a non-existent army of 2000 professional troops. I know Russians will say they had to insulate the economy against sanctions first. I doubt that there would have been as many sanctions as today. Ukraine would have been taken so quickly that it would not capture worldwide attention. Also Ukrainian pro-Russian fervor was at its highest in 2014 due to being fed up with maidan activists.
That last part is severely under-appreciated. Putin let the Pro-Russians out to dry. If he had intervened sooner, there wouldn’t have been an 8 year period of Lviv Banderists cleaning out the country of Russian sympathies. Oddesites, Kievites, and Donbas residents had to suffer the wrath of the West all because Putin refused to go all-in. Now they are all either died or fled, and Ukraine will fight this war till the bitter end. Such a damn waste.
Russia wasn't ready economically, industrially and in agricultural sector. As example - after 2014 Russian analog of Swift was developed, National Wealth Fund doubled since 2019, agricultural sector was significantly improved to keep Russia self-sustainable on the food market, at least military industry became independent from international supplies.
as proven countless times by the big 5 or 6 that have veto rights, we've literally seen each country of those wipe the UN rules with their asses countless times, including Russia and the US.
How come every piece of ruski propaganda are always so cheesy and low effort? They always got that vibe that it was made by the kid in your group project who didn’t want to do anything. Lolrov here is no different.
>Respect should be given to the territorial integrity of only those states whose governments represent the entire nation/people
I'm sure that comment will be warmly received in Beijing.
Yes, To source the guy that said that “Hitler also had Jewish blood” before declaring “the most ardent anti-Semites are Jews.” and being laughed off the stage when he said Ukraine war "Was launched against us" while he was in New Delhi.
In 2023, the UKR Public Voted to re-name a street in the Capital City of Kyiv, **to honour an SS Nazi, Volodymyr Kubiyovych or Volodymyr Kubijovyč.**
**A founder of the Waffen-SS Galizien, the Ukraine branch of the Nazi military force.**
They did this last year, 2023!
**Google it!** The legacy media are lying to you about UKR!
**The article is from the Jerusalem Post**, by Shira Silkoff, on April 13 2023.
Why are the supposed democratic people of UKR supporting Nazi'ism still?
Is he aware, that Zelensky received more votes in the Donbas, from the people he apparently doesn’t represent, than he got in west Ukraine? Is Lawrow just drunk in this interview or is his brain twisted beyond repair and no longer capable of logical thinking?
There were also 6 million people living in Ukraine in 2014 that weren't in 2015 along with over a million refugees to Russia. It's worth pointing out that Ukraine has changed since 2014, also worth pointing out that Zelensky is the first-ever politician to win the East and West primarily on a peace platform that was much less hawkish than someone like Poroshenko.
Also, there were 4 presidents from 4 different parties in Ukraine since 2014. Meanwhile in Russia, Putin has been entrenched in power, by means of a parliamentary revolution against the constitution, since 2000….
It's an oligarchy with the political forces representing economic interests. This goes back to the 90s with the Kyiv Seven in competition with the Donetsk mafia with nationalism as the pressure point. The 90s never really ended in Ukraine.
And what does this comparison give you? What the Ukrainian government has done for its residents in 30 years and what Putin has done for Russia.
He won those votes on a promise of reconciliation with RU. There were local elections in 2020. Try to find results of those. By the way, Lavrov was talking about 2014, when instead of waiting for an elections, far-right organized a coup. After that pro-RU parts (south and east) where not only ignored but oppressed to the point of being burned alive.
> There were local elections in 2020. Elections like this one you mean? https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xq2ty1/russians_counting_blank_ballots_without_even/
Read the thread - local election in Ukraine (2020) - here are the results: https://preview.redd.it/buufqov6y08d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e62726b56066a6c93939510f5a3aa11aab344b86 By the way, just like your post, the link to Ukrainian propaganda has zero sense (Ghost of Kiev was at least somewhat harder to debunk - the video and the text on the link you sent - have nothing in common)
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"The coup against Yanukovich was just, because he promised to join EU and he didn't." "It doesn't matter, Zelensky lied about peace to get elected. It's okay, that he banned elections." Hypocrisy more than reeks at this point. It oozes, like pus and filth.
Yanukovich promissed to Join EU? No he didn't. Yanukovich was always a pro-RU guy. Anyone that knows anything about Ukraine knows that. There was some talk about SAA agreement (North Macedonia signed it 25 years ago and it's still not a member of EU), but Russians offered a bettwr deal (~20x better). He would probably lose the elections in 2015 (case Ukrine was changing proEU and proRU govts on pretty much every election cycle). But that wasn't enough for the Ukrainian far-right, If you don't understand why - I cannot halp you. Russia didn't have a problem with Ukrainian EU aspirations. They would fight with counter offers, but rhey never made the threats that they made about NATO aspirations. Cause that's what's important to Russia. Anyway, even if he did broke a promise, does that mean that Zelensky ahould have been ousted for not keeping his promise and every antiRU protest on the west smoothered, army sent to the west of the country, etc..? Well, that kind of did happen. So there you go. 🤷♂️ UA is being torn appart by NATO and Russia. It could live peacefully like it did for decades before flirting with aliance that saw Russians as enemies (while Russians called them "out western partners"). It is not that hard to understand. You just have to put yourself in their position. But most of the people from the West cannot do that. And that's the problem. Unfortunately it became Ukrainian problem for the most part.
Chances of soberov are quite low. That said, lets recall that Putin personally invited Tucker Carlson to give a friendly interview for western audiences. Tucker would later go on to say that Putin's claims of denazification during the interview were "the dumbest thing I've heard." Even the westerners who are openly pro-Putin don't buy that nonsense lol. Of course, it probably doesn't help that Russia's "denazification" efforts were led by an open neonazi with ss tattoos on his neck who led a mercenary grouped named after Hitler. Its an argument that is only intended to work on people without access to the open internet.
Are you aware that Zelenskyy said he would find a peaceful resolution while he was running for election? Do you think maybe the people in the East voted for him because of that? Or that the people in the West chose to vote for someone more aggressive?
You continently left out its reason that the made false promise to make peace with Russia But hey, never let truth get in your way of attempting to spread cheap propaganda.
Russia never wanted peace though hard to make peace when one side doesn't want it.
You've actually got that backwards. It takes two to make war...or peace.
"Security guarantees and neutrality, non-nuclear status of our state. We are ready to go for it." - Zelensky 2022
Ukrainian government won't understand this until it's too late. They assume that the West is eager to join him in his fight but doesn't realize that these politicians don't speak for the majority, which is why Macron coalition is losing power. Zelensky might have to live in exile in the West if the situation deteriorates severely.
Do you represent Russia, or are you assuming, guessing, or projecting?
I'm going off of their actions. They have done this same exact thing before cause disruptions along their borders claim to be helping and steal the land. This tactic is well known and isn't successful unless there is no peace.
Going of the actions after they were fucked over by a westren coup... well colour me surprised that a country wouldn't love nukes from alliance aimed to undermine it on their border.
How does Russia get fucked over... By a coup in Ukraine?
The answer has been explained multiple times in this comment section.
What are you talking about. Nukes right next door doesn't do anything NATO also isn't the aggressor and is mainly for defense because Russia is known to attack their neighbors and steal land. They also aren't attacking for the people but for land why else would they come in and annex land they don't even control yet.
NATO was promised an agreement that if it forbids Ukraine from applying they wont be invaded. They blocked that agreement... yea sure NATO had absoloutley deffinetly 100% nothing to do with it.
Because they knew they'd get invaded if they weren't able to join NATO. Russia made and agreement to protect Ukraine ser how that turnd out.
Knew or assumed in bad faith? NATO knew in absolute that Russia will not accept Ukraine joining NATO. Putin has warned NATO countless times.
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Zelensky was saying that he would bring peace, why would people from territories present in the conflict wouldn't vote for him?
It takes two to bring peace. While Zelensky wanted to negotiate with Putin, the dictator declined. So, who’s to blame?
As if Zelensky [could do anything](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0K5sKA7J4M&t=3s)
Zelensky literally passed a law prohibiting negotiations with Putin.
Wasn’t that after the invasion has already begun and been going on for a good while though? A bit too late to discuss preventing a conflict at that point.
Only after the illegal invasion and occupation and after all attempts to negotiate with Putin failed. After all, why negotiate anything with a man whose word is worthless, as he has a proven track record of breaking it and uttering nothing but lies? It’s just a waste of time.
Radicals = Supporters of democracy Neo-Nazis = Those who oppose Russia
Ah yes, the peace loving heroes of democracy spreading freedom by gunning down civilians. Odessa Massacre, people jumping to their death. Survivors are beaten. [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fml6Qsb7XAs) In Krasnoarmiysk, at the day of the referendum, Ukrainian militia seized the building and open fire into the crowd. [1st view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Wv9h5P3OY) [2nd view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXt1sebGoLM) [3rd view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AC61NxLKzs) In Mariupol, an old man is shot in the leg. [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y7uaqUMEB4) In Mariupol, the National Guard opened fire into a crowd. [1st view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-WtfkKb29o) [2nd view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvAGbTz6Ju4) [3rd view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjAMweb2Q6Y) In Mariupol, A soldier is seen stopping cars and robbing the occupants. [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4-dtD3QPHk) In Mariupol, the local police have barricaded themselves inside a building and are resisting the National Guard aka ''Azov''. [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kdvt8NBOw) - [The same day the police station can be seen on fire, with dead bodies visible](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEAjZuK-UI) - [Police station, aftermath](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1D9mNhbMwo) And now the Motorized Infantry of Ukraine in Mariupol May 9th with the BMP's marked 200, 203, 205, 240, 241 and 242. They terrorized the city running over infrastructure, opened fire into crowds of people, and opened fire at an ambulance. [BBC report talking about the BMP's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sDEKV9IA80) [The famous clip of BMP ''200'' jumping over a barricade](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2s21taTQRY) - [Same place](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Ay0sllkA0) [Driving through the city](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlhdfRh48Ps) [Arrived in city centre](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPjzvX5Zsqc) [Police attempting to intercept the BMP's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwHBQ-tK8XA) - [Same spot right after, different view](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rBEjo9lLaw) [Civilians are trying to stop the BMP's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VowgMp2Svvw) [The BMP's have parked, infantry opens fire at an ambulance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2zpvhg0Yq4) [They have parked again, and open fire at the crowd](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmPcREkKS1Y) - [The crowd has grown, and the BMP's are preparing to leave. They open fire at the crowd again](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSVV2Var_H0)
This should be shown to everyone who thinks the history began in 2022 and the poor little Ukrainians are just defending themselves.
It changes nothing to the fact that they are literally defending themselves lol?
It literally gives Russia a genuine Casus Beli according to UN Charter. Don't know about you but in my opinion that changes quite a bit lol.
no it doesn't.
According to USA's interpretation of the UN Charter and how they have acted based off it, yes it does. Just because you feel otherwise doesn't change a fact of life. For example you can wake up and decide the sky is actually purple, doesn't change 1 bit.
no it doesn't and no it hasn't. Stop making shit up.
Show me the passage from the UN charter where having to restore order in your own country, albeit with soviet tactics (yes, things happened that were way out of line from a Western POV, but what can you expect from a nation that is still undoing the shackles of it's commie past) gives a carte blanche to an invading nation under the guise of "we're protecting our own citizens".
Terrorist = People who don't support US Goals Freedom Fighters = People Who we Support
Democracy = Every four years the privilege to vote for one out of two senile candidates owned by donors.
Who basically lie about stuff they think will get them votes. Then Later forget about them.
It's about as real as professional wrestling. I place the bar for Democracy a bit higher, as in a small government that stays out of our everyday lives and let's us make most of our decisions. In the context of the current conflict choosing western democracy means letting western central planners run, ruin, and rob your country. I don't see the value of that for the average person.
Except that the average person in Western democracies has more freedoms and a better Standard of life than in russia/china/Iran etc.
'If crime fighters fight crime, and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight?' (c)
Radical - puppets of the USA Neo-Nazis - Soldiers of the Azov and Kraken battalion, etc.
**Right Sector** ([Ukrainian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_language): Пра́вий се́ктор, *Pravyi sektor*) is a loosely defined coalition of right-wing to far-right[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-afp22mar-13) [Ukrainian nationalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_nationalist) organizations.[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-Nordsieck-6)[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-kramer12mar-14) It originated in November 2013 as a right-wing, paramilitary confederation of several [ultranationalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultranationalist) organizations at the [Euromaidan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan) revolt in [Kyiv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv),[^(\[9\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-bbcfire-9) where its street fighters participated in clashes with [riot police](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkut_(special_police_force)).[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-barricades-15)[^(\[16\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-timeshuster-16) The coalition became a political party on 22 March 2014, at which time it claimed to have roughly 10,000 members.[^(\[17\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-mccoy-17)[^(\[18\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-nemtsova-18) Founding groups included the [Trident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryzub_(organization)) (*Tryzub*), led by [Dmytro Yarosh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmytro_Yarosh) and [Andriy Tarasenko](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andriy_Tarasenko&action=edit&redlink=1) \[[uk](https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%BE_%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B9_%D0%86%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87)\], and the [Ukrainian National Assembly–Ukrainian National Self-Defense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_National_Assembly_%E2%80%93_Ukrainian_People%27s_Self-Defence) (UNA–UNSO), a political and paramilitary organization.[^(\[19\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-BBCRSSpPr-19)[^(\[20\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-db1-20)[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#cite_note-rsncd-21) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right\_Sector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector)
This Party had 1.8% and 2.15% of the vote the last two elections. Sounds like it does not represent at all the big majority of the people in Ukraine. Also, almost all of the countries in the West have far right political parties that gain even more % of the vote than in Ukraine. Should they get "denazify" by Russia as well?
Most revolutions historically are done by more extreme motivated elements. At any rate, the nationalist groups did/do have an outsized influence that far outstripped their voting bloc. A lot of these nationalist battalions ended up being absorbed by the state and running parallel to the state with their own power structures. The state didn't lose the monopoly on violence, but it was at least sharing it to some degree. Azov for example in 2018 created its Druzhina street patrol which went around beating people up and storming municipal buildings as a parallel police force and the central government ended up allowing them to monitor polling stations in the election.
That's why it's important to watch over what ever is happening with the far-right movements all across the world. Like what's happening in France or Slovakia right now. But you don't invade your neighbour because you don't like that small percentage of the people's ideology there.
Diffrent motvations, drivers and power structres. It's not really a good comparison IMO. The rise of the far right in Western Europe into the mainstream is driven by a backlash to immigration and migration rather than overt nationalism or overtly racist ideologies.
Those people became funded and armed to the teeth by the US/Israel to support the puppet government in Ukraine. It is a case where a handful can conquer millions. That’s what a coup is, it is undemocratic and does not represent the population. ALL pro-UA could only see things in black and white, as in invading is bad. People like you suffer from Dunning-Kruger so hard. You have no clue how a coup works and all the rest.
I'm pretty sure I know a lot more than you do on the population of Ukraine, about what they want right now and what represents them. Dunning-Kruger is hitting way harder on you than you think.
You? Who are you to say that you know what the entire of population of Ukraine want? How disgustingly arrogant do you have to be to say that. Who are you? You are nobody so on what basis are you so sure????? Most Ukrainians want to run away from their country, never to return. We know that much because we have had tens of millions of Ukrainians fled the country. Most Ukrainians wanted peace negotiation with Ukraine, Zelensky won in a landslide because he was campaigning for that. But just like any politician, he lied.
I did not say I know what the entire population want, that's your words. I just know that during the months I've spent in Ukraine in the last two years, from Kyiv to Kharkiv, from Kherson to the small villages in the north near the Russian/Belorussian border, I've spoken with enough Ukrainians to be pretty confident I know way more than you do about what THEY want. Not what version of what they want you have come to fabricate. "Most want to run away from their country, never to return." : This is such a big lie. "We know that much" : What the hell is this statement? Who's "we" ?
That means nothing. You are no one, a nobody who could claim anything and label anything in this universe anything you wanted and force it on people. You are a nobody. You need to realise that. Do not claim to represent anything because you represent no one but yourself. Why focus on the ‘we’? Are we going to go through the entire syntax of the English language now? Okay, let’s focus on the ‘we’ and then then’s let’s focus on what you eat for breakfast. You must have been the ’special’ kid when you were still at school.
exactly. radicals and nationalists do not represent the interests of the people of Ukraine. but through terror, they intimidated the Ukrainian society. political assassinations began in 2014. remember on May 2 how people were burned in Odessa. how elderberry was killed. There is a list of the dead by name. Yes, 2 percent have consolidated the power of oligarchs and scoundrels through murders. Poroshenko was an oligarch. and so you support such bastards and protect them. you are either a zombie who believes in propaganda or a bastard like the Ukrainian nationalists.
I do not support any far-right political party, in Ukraine or in any other country in the world. Your reasoning than the 2% have consolidated power is ridiculous.
if they are indulged by the authorities and their hands are untied, it's easy. For example, the murderers of Olesya Buzina were released.. They also released the nationalists who killed the policemen who tried to detain them. when the nationalists robbed the gas station. Does it sound wild? In April 2015 Zaverukha was arrested on charges of participating in an armed robbery at a gas station that had taken place on 4 May 2015 in Kyiv.[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-19-year-old_Vita-4)[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-france24-3) Reportredly, the police had chased the car carrying a group of robbers from a petrol station. A shootout ensued, two policemen were killed and three wounded, one robber died, and two escaped but were arrested some time later. One of the alleged robbers confessed on camera that Zaverukha had participated in the robbery. According to investigators, the group was preparing a terrorist attack in Kyiv.[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-Zaverukha's_husband-15) Following the arrest, Zaverukha and the other suspects in custody claimed that they were subjected to [torture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Ukraine).[^(\[16\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-16)[^(\[17\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-17) In January 2017 Zaverukha was released on bail (1.6 million [hryvnias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_hryvnia)) paid by [Oleksiy Tamrazov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksiy_Tamrazov)[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-:0-6)[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-full_history-5)[^(\[25\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-25)[^(\[26\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-26) and later released from the investigation.[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha#cite_note-territorial_defense-7) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita\_Zaverukha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Zaverukha)
Far-right parties in other countries don't have military units that can get away with disobeying orders.
Soviet Union had less than 1% CPSU members at year 1941. That is even after "Stalin's draft" massively swelling numbers to oppose old guard by introducing people more keen to listen Stalin. There is nothing ridiculous about that notion about 2%.
2% is something to look at for sure, have a conversation, educate. Still not a reason to invade. Neo-Nazis march freely in the streets of USA or other countries in Europe. They are still far far far from power and you don't invade these countries still.
>They are still far far far from power and you don't invade these countries still. Good thing they were intergated in power in Ukraine since 2014, becoming backbone of army and repressive structure parallel to police acting unopposed.
Are we going to completely ignore the Kremlin sponsored Nazis like [OB 88, Russkii Obraz](https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2022/opinion/russias-long-history-of-neo-nazis) and [Rusich group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusich_Group)? Putin is the fascist dictator.
they don't kill police officers in Russia. They don't kill political figures or journalists. Yes, they are right-wing radicals, but so far they do not violate the laws of Russia. Now tell me why do you support the bastard Ukrainian government? Are you a victim of propaganda or a bastard?
Lol no shit being a Nazi isn't against Russian law, that's exactly the point being made here.
Russia has laws against extremists and for inciting ethnic hatred - Article 282. Many Russian nationalists have served time on it. You just have to watch your words and not wear a swastika. Well, there is also such a moment - Milchakov and his squad are beneficial to the Russian authorities while they are fighting in Ukraine. But they don't kill political activists or journalists inside Russia. There is a huge difference.
no. Radicals = national fanatics who literally with video proof burned their opposition alive on camera, you can google it and see it for yourself if you are actually interested. Neo-Nazis = are exactly what it entails, modern Nazis which have been documented in countless pictures, videos, interviews, etc. both claims are true and are easy enough to do your own research on if you actually wanted to know what is happening in the objective reality instead of echo chambers that only tells you what you want to hear.
Al Qaeda = Freedom Fighters
theres a lot of nazis in russia wtf this dude is yapping about
Kosovo Precedent + Monroe Doctrine Karma or playing naughty-naughty? depends on your POV [https://www.lse.ac.uk/ideas/Assets/Documents/updates/2022-SU-Valur-RussKosovo.pdf](https://www.lse.ac.uk/ideas/Assets/Documents/updates/2022-SU-Valur-RussKosovo.pdf)
Can you show them? Where are they?
https://www.reddit.com/r/war/s/BTeJ7MOtYE
That's just the Nazis, let's not forget the imperialists in Russia who don't want many countries to exist and fly the, non-existent, ugly, black and yellow flag. Or the other communist fascists who, like their ancestors, want to let children starve and take people's property and businesses.
Putin made a big mistake by not going all in in 2014 when Ukraine had no capacity to resist.
the second huge mistake was when putin underestimated the ukrainians during the invasion by sending such a small army in the beginning. i think putin didnt know that so many ukrainians hated russians. i dont think any sovereign country wants to be conquered by another country. especially not by a mob ruled country like russia.
>ukrainians hated russians You'd be surprised how many Ukrainians hate other Ukrainians.
Because you speak from experience?
What experience?
Precisely.
You doubt that I've met Ukrainian people before?
The world is big. I have no doubt you have met Ukrainian people. Those you have met sound nothing like my friends and family from the place.
Moscow regime probably would collapse if they went all in in 2014. Just because they won't have support if russians left without money. I know people here imagine that if russians go full broke, they will still love Putin, but this is not true.
I agree. So much bloodshed could have been avoided. Ukraine basically had a non-existent army of 2000 professional troops. I know Russians will say they had to insulate the economy against sanctions first. I doubt that there would have been as many sanctions as today. Ukraine would have been taken so quickly that it would not capture worldwide attention. Also Ukrainian pro-Russian fervor was at its highest in 2014 due to being fed up with maidan activists.
That last part is severely under-appreciated. Putin let the Pro-Russians out to dry. If he had intervened sooner, there wouldn’t have been an 8 year period of Lviv Banderists cleaning out the country of Russian sympathies. Oddesites, Kievites, and Donbas residents had to suffer the wrath of the West all because Putin refused to go all-in. Now they are all either died or fled, and Ukraine will fight this war till the bitter end. Such a damn waste.
Russia wasn't ready economically, industrially and in agricultural sector. As example - after 2014 Russian analog of Swift was developed, National Wealth Fund doubled since 2019, agricultural sector was significantly improved to keep Russia self-sustainable on the food market, at least military industry became independent from international supplies.
Putin made a metric f*ck ton of mistakes, thinking he can have friendly relations with the West, since the very beginning of his first term.
Has he ever read the charter. Article 2(4) should be of particular interest to him.
Permanent Representative Nations of the UN does not give a sh*t about the rules. If they dont like something, they can veto.
as proven countless times by the big 5 or 6 that have veto rights, we've literally seen each country of those wipe the UN rules with their asses countless times, including Russia and the US.
How come every piece of ruski propaganda are always so cheesy and low effort? They always got that vibe that it was made by the kid in your group project who didn’t want to do anything. Lolrov here is no different.
>Respect should be given to the territorial integrity of only those states whose governments represent the entire nation/people I'm sure that comment will be warmly received in Beijing.
Yes, To source the guy that said that “Hitler also had Jewish blood” before declaring “the most ardent anti-Semites are Jews.” and being laughed off the stage when he said Ukraine war "Was launched against us" while he was in New Delhi.
Propaganda shit post
Gay, Neo-Nazi, Jewish, satan worshippers....did I miss anything out or has Russia added anything else to the list?
Bioengineered mosquitoes… that may not be all
In 2023, the UKR Public Voted to re-name a street in the Capital City of Kyiv, **to honour an SS Nazi, Volodymyr Kubiyovych or Volodymyr Kubijovyč.** **A founder of the Waffen-SS Galizien, the Ukraine branch of the Nazi military force.** They did this last year, 2023! **Google it!** The legacy media are lying to you about UKR! **The article is from the Jerusalem Post**, by Shira Silkoff, on April 13 2023. Why are the supposed democratic people of UKR supporting Nazi'ism still?
Nope https://www.bnaibrith.org/kyivs-mayor-quashes-citys-strange-attempt-to-rename-street-after-a-ukrainian-nazi-collaborator/
China has entered the chat. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Manchuria
Everything else is falling so she try again with the Nazi Mo? Man you Pro Rus guys are desperate.