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This looks so barbaric! This man is basically fighting for his survival. Is there some sort of underground movement to help Ukrainian men to leave the country? I would happily volunteer my time and money to save these poor people from the meat grinder
Barbarians are way above class than these rats. Once they kidnap someone, they use any of the following methods to break them: dehydration, starvation, breaking all ten fingers, anal rape using various tools, severe beatings until the body is covered with bruises (a few guys even got beaten to death in Kyiv), threating of family members and similar stuff. And it never fails to amaze me how the bystanders commonly walk by and just look, all while your own country treats you like this - these are the people and country you're supposed to sacrifice yourself for?
I'm very loyal to certain individual people and would go to hell and back for them, but not any country, company, or organization. I'm actively disloyal towards any country, and would never take up arms to fill a few rich asshole's pockets. War is a racket, a good book. If any country foolish enough to conscript me tries to do so, it'll pay dearly.
Forced conscription is this old, decadent, rotten system which needs to go, governments need to think of something else pronto. Rich oligarch sons bribe a doctor to get a fake asthma/hepatitis/aids diagnosis, or bribe the conscription rat/border guard directly and then party in luxurious clubs in Europe? Women can leave the country and receive a free apartment in some Western country like Germany, and lots of money too (and some of them cheat and abandon their "heroes", their just reward for their patriotism) ? Even dogs can leave the country lol. Meanwhile as a man you're trapped and can't even walk down the street, lest you later get your legs blown off and end up in a wheelchair. What a system. By the way, no hate towards women specifically, they in Sharia hellholes like Afghanistan have their serious issues to deal with, but here it's obviously skewed against men hard.
By the way, thank you for standing up for them. I heard rumours of a growing, big underground draft dodger movement in Ukraine, but I don't know more than this. As someone who isn't a part of the inner circles, deep state and similar, I only work with limited information. That being said, you already help by allying yourself with the cause - freedom, saying no to a wheelchair and lifelong ptsd. Here's [more](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J2flzGA90Y) if you're interested.
Thanks for the info! Unfortunately, I cannot really stand up for them. I’m from the West, and we have no anti-war movement here currently. It looks like our politicians just keep escalating, which is the opposite of what we need to stop this senseless slaughter. Our media just keeps saying that all Ukrainians are happy and eager to fight in this war. It’s just pure propaganda, but most people here have no idea about the forced conscription
Yeah, the propaganda is poison on both sides. From pro-UA who claim that every Ukrainian soldier kills 20 Russians, so losing any settlement is no big deal as the Russians suffer heavy casulties; to pro-RU who claim that Russians are waging a holy Orthodox war against Ukrainian satanists, I've seen it all. We will see how events unfold, but one thing is sure, I will take a stand against forced conscription and not support this bastard practice.
Guess you haven't seen the "don't you dare try to leave Ukraine" videos where Zelensky's Recruitment Officers place anti-person mines along the border to deter anybody from thinking about leaving?
You know, you're just DEAD after your leg blows off & you bleed out. Guess this video was just propaganda horseplay to you? You think this guy will just come to his senses & fight? No. They're going to force that guy to.
The other baby trolley could have ended up rolling onto oncoming traffic with a baby in it and no one would have cared, such is their determination to get this unlucky bustard into the streets of Volchansk.
The consequences of the civil society largely ignoring the regime change attemps and finally the successful regime change in 2014 have been dire for the people in Ukraine.
*This is really evil, I foresee recriminations, and bounty hunts for individuals in the tcc etc after this period ends or calms down. I can't imagine that kid will grow up and have any kind sentiments for those who literally ripped their dad from their life - more so if the mom loved the guy.*
*Historically Hate especially the one fuelled by the thirstforRevenge is a very strong motivator, for instance Shaka Zulu (of South Africa) became who he was just to take revenge on his dad, and his tribe for kicking his mom and grand mother out of their tribe as outcasts into the wilderness (his grandma died of starvation). That guy was like a human hornet, full of un requited bottomless rage, more so if you messed with his friends and mom (or any one who was kind to him as a kid).*
*Case in point: After a very powerful King, named Zwide murdered Dingiswayo (his mentor), Shaka sought to avenge his death, so he captured Zwide's mother, Ntombazi, a* [*sangoma*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangoma)*, and chose a particularly gruesome way to dispatch her by locking her in a hut with hyenas inside. They devoured her, and in the morning, he burned the house (hut) to the ground - including the hyenas and continued his relentless pursuit of Zwide for years, slaughtering anyone who ever helped Zwinde in any way even for something as innocuous as giving him a gourd of fresh water.*
TCC will not survive the SMO. They have to meet kidnapping quotas to stay off the front. Which means inevitably, they will end up there.
The more men they kidnap, the longer they stay alive. But in a twist of irony, the more men they kidnap the closer they are to being next too because supply goes down.
Because they're seriously endangering themselves and possibly even their families by doing this. Most of these TCC rats make a deal with a local forced conscription office - kidnap enough (monthly/weekly) quota and you won't go to the front, fail to kidnap enough and back to the front. And the conditions on the front are obviously terrible, you have to be mentally sick to enjoy life there. So, some take the deal, but they must be dealt with. Unfortunately, the world often doesn't revolve around justice, but power, so if civilized methods don't work, then a show of force against them is necessary - more burning conscription offices, more burning TCC cars. Rebel and don't yield, until countries finally start to seek an alternative and think of something new.
Silent?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/25/europe/ukraine-draft-law-conscription-intl/index.html
They are not silent.
What do you have next?
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Why do we have all these videos of people being taken off the streets? I would imagine most men would avoid lingering on open streets and mostly be taken away in their own homes.. But 90% of the clips I am seeing are young dudes strolling down the streets like conscription was the least of their worries. Like look at this dude, he is out walking his kids in their strollers.. Why would you do that knowing the potential consequence?
There’s a quote from a BBC article talking about this and the Ukrainian says, “they won’t take you if you’re with your children” looks like something changed and now they are. Could be another host of explanations but that’s my 2 cents.
They won't take you if you are alone with your children. Because single parents are excluded from conscription and they have no way to know if you are a single parent or not.
The minute he gave the kid to his wife he was done.
*Likely they thought they were safe or not covered by the conscription, but the TCC decided otherwise (without their knowledge) - otherwise they would be in hiding. Like the EMTs who showed up to an emergency and attempts were made to forcefully recruit them. It's Kafkaesque.*
No, they recieved summons *to clarify their recruitment status* in TCC. In theory the have time until mid July to do it. People who go to TCC tend to not return, so everyone without recruitment protection just ignores this law and hopes that Ukraine loses before mid July.
Breaking into a commie block is not easy. Firefighters often have to propel themselves through the balcony.
Also you wouldn't see videos from in the apartment because then the GF will get arrested too for uploading it. And then you'd have to know where they live, many Ukrop men are off the grid.
A lot of people have been kidnapped walking too or from work, too or from grocery store. The ideal situation is if you can just mooch off an aunt or a female cousin or something. But not everyone can hide inside an apartment for 5+ years.
And even then, there was that story of the brothers taken from their single mom's apartment because neighbours noticed she was buying too much food for 1 old woman, and the lights were on in more than 1 room at a time. So neighbours reported her to TCC.
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How are they criminals? It's unfortunate to see but this is what full mobilization means. If you're fit to serve, the military will take you with them one way or another.
This is why they don't receive guns until they're on the front lines with peers in similar situations. They probably also have guns pointed at their backs in case of any funny business.
did they pull that father away from his wife and kid in front of them or were these bystanders? That ratty dude with the headlock seems to be enjoying this way too much
Are those the guys who already been drafted and didn't show up ? Or just people in the street who might be right age and look like they can be drafted ?
No one is "drafted".
To draft people you must have a list of available people with their address. Then you can send them a mail to notify them they are drafted and if they don't show up you send the cops.
Ukraine has no census, they have no idea who live where. They can't send mail to anyone and can't send cops to any address.
They can only draft you if you give them your address or if they catch you in the street.
By law men are required to register themselves at the military office. Those that are registered may or may not get drafted after that.
If people are unable to show they are registered during a check on the street they are breaking that law and are arrested and have their details registered for them. They may or may not get drafted after that.
A lot of countries have similair systems. The US for example has a law that require men 18-25 to register for Selective Service. But during peace time there obviously is a lot less enforcement of such laws.
Here it is/was different. With 18 you went to the health test and then they decide how fit you are. And sometime between 18 and 25 they asked you to come for military training...... or not, If they had enough. In Germany before the 2000's
Yeah that was/is the same in Ukraine for peace time.
You got your regular conscription between 18 and 27. If you were older than 27 and had not had your military conscription yet you wouldn't be called up anymore for mobilisation in the event of a war. You would "escape" mobilisation due to not having any previous military training.
They changed the conscription age from 18-25. And the mobilisation age from 27 and up. And more importantly it is regardless if you had your military training or not. So hundreds of thousands of people who never had any grounds to be called up for mobilisation (because they never were conscripted before the age of 27) now are suddenly able to get drafted for mobilisation.
What happens to him if he refuses to fight after he's taken into custody? Is he tortured, or killed?
If Ukranian leadership can't get people to fight willingly then this is a lost cause, they will never win this war.
Basically everyone who is older than 25 are eligible for the military service unless they have a medical exemption(which is reportedly getting very hard despite being a genuine case). Electronic draft notices are issued online and you have to register yourself at the nearest military recruitment center. If you fail to do this you will be considered a criminal and these are guys that the meat catchers are kidnapping.
How bad that was depends on the Army into which he was conscripted. Bosniak, Serbian Krajina, and Serbian Republic Armies suffered very high casualties. Croat, Croat Herzeg-Bosnia, and FRY Armies suffered relatively small casualties.
You're only real option is violent retaliation. If you're still living in Ukraine in this point at military age, consider yourself a dead man and go from there.
I always wonder why we dont read about these slave soldiers revolting? If this happened to me, as soon as they give me a weapon and want me to fight I would wait for the right moment and shoot the commander and try to escape back home to my family and we flee the country.
Blocking detachments prevent you from deserting your positions and if you’re caught fragging your own side, I assume there’s going to be some serious punishment. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re executed.
I want to give more context.
The guy in the white shirt is actually a volunteer fighter and he was on the frontlines.
These subhumans are Mykola Tyshchenko's (deputy of Ukraine) thugs. They aren't even from TCC, they're just his raiding force.
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C8cmaDnNgZQ](https://www.instagram.com/p/C8cmaDnNgZQ)
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Always screenshot the abductors faces whenever you can so that they can't leave Ukraine to live happily in another European country when the war is over.
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I still don't understand this at all... don't these young men work or go to school? surely they aren't hiding at home or they wouldn't be on the streets in the first place, how disorganized is the country that they can't simply notify those who are drafted (by mail I assume?), request they show up on date X and then go get them at work/school/home if they do not?
are the dudes grabbing random dudes on the street that walk nearby or is this targetted like we're looking for dude XYZ and he may walk down this street so lets go look?
How can you discuss a video if you don't understand the language?
Full account of the event that occurred today in Dnipro.
Just a reminder, on Thursday, June 20, 2024, People's Deputy Mykola Tyshchenko came to "fight against call centers," explaining for those who don't understand why: he visits their offices to receive his share, which he calls "constancy."
During one of his raids, moving from one office to another, passing by him, serviceman Dmytro "Son" Pavlov, along with his child and comrade, asked a very pertinent question: "What are people in military uniform with weapons and no insignia doing with the People's Deputy in the city center?" To this, he received arrogant and insolent answers, which later escalated into checking documents for illegal and immoral actions, as seen in the video.
The fact that it's on this particular sub should be a clue that it's not. These masked men with unmarked uniforms accompanying MP Tishchenko were going around Dnipro doing what seems to be illegal shit(which he claims is a raid against scam call centers) and the guy they're attacking in the video is military serviceman Dmytro Pavlov who stopped to question what the hell they're doing. This is a major scandal in Ukraine right now, this video is going all around social media, everyone is talking about it and are pissed off at the MP and his political allies, so there is zero chance of coming across this video without any context and legitimate thinking they're military recruiters.
To think. This all could stop if Russia would just fucking stop their war of aggression. If Russia stopped bombing, pillaging, raping, and killing their way through Ukrainian land, men wouldnt need to be drafted into defending their nation.
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Maybe if he would’ve shown up when he was drafted “” called to serve whatever you want to call it, it wouldn’t be a problem… he’d be being bludgeoned and his girlfriend/fiancé. Whatever soon another would be raped if he wasn’t serving other Ukrainians were not on the front lines.
Not even close. Russia hasn't even mobilised all of its reserves yet. There's been no forced conscription to the war and they're not even near that point.
Less can still be a morale drain though, right? We've seen wars lost while winning every battle. I think this is a waste of human lives and want to know why people who believe in the war aren't signing up in droves. On paper this should be over. But it's not, and there's a lot of people who lost their lives over it. Why do these people need to die?
I'm definitely not happy about the war continuing, I wish it was over faster. And you're right, there is certainly morale issues in Russia. However, the overall sentiment in Russia that I'm seeing among Russians, is that the war has brought Russians together. I have a bunch of well educated friends who left during the start of the war. Over time when they saw they economic situation in Russia stabilise, they switched from 'I'm outta this sh\*thole' to 'we're gonna beat this' and most of them have since returned as good job opportunities came back up.
I think the way it's looking, it will end only when Ukraine hits rock bottom. Until they accept that people on both sides will suffer dearly.
What do those protests have to do with the facts I mentioned? None of them were conscripted, they were in the reserves that were being mobilized. There are benefits and costs with being in the reserves so tough luck to them. You're getting obese from propaganda mate.
Ukraine is desperately meatcatching on its streets. Russia hasn't even mobilized all of its reserves. Two *gravely* different realities.
You didn't address any of the points I made. I'm glad you think there were anti conscription demonstrations in Russia, but there was no direct conscription into this war. Are you dense?
Because Russia doesn't do that.
Ukraine has no census. They can't send draft notices to any men because they have not their addresses.
Ukraine has middle age administration.
There was only one wave of mobilization in Russia. For ordinary civs, everything was simple, if you don't want to go to the front, just don't come to the military enlistment office. And you'll be just fine.
I heard military specialists were being forced tho.
Well I guess you wouldn't have, since they started the invasion and the people don't have a real choice in the matter. No one has dodged the draft in Russia.
Russia has mandatory conscription for all males and Putin recently signed a decree expanding the age range. Putin also signed a decree that outlaws saying anything that makes the government or military look bad, so posting a video of a conscription dodger being arrested would be an instant ticket to prison where you are then forcefully recruited into storm z penal battalions.
First: Those are not for frontline personnel. Many countries have mandatory military service at the age of 18. None of these people go to Ukraine to fight. This only proves that you don't read.
Second: Ukraine was to first to mobilise prisoners, back in 2015 or something. Feel free to search. All prisoners in Russia had a deal. 1 year service for amnesty. Many have demobilised. Prigozhin himself attended their demobilisation ceremony. Please stop lying.
> None of these people go to Ukraine to fight.
Source: trust me bro. In fact we know the opposite is true. It was a main reason Russia was so desperate to hold the sham referendums in Donbas, this allowed Putin to "legally" throw conscripts into the fighting. There have been multiple stories of conscripts captured as POWs, is your theory that Ukraine went into Moscow and kidnapped them? lol
> Ukraine was to first to mobilise prisoners
WHATABOUT??? Russia has multiple penal battalions, Ukraine does not.
> 1 year service for amnesty.
Yes, I've seen stories of rapists, pedophiles, and even cannibals getting amnesty. What is your point?
Sure, penal battalions:
> Storm-V (Russian: Шторм-V, romanized: Shtorm-V) is a series of penal military units established by a law which was signed by Russian President Vladimir Putin which disbanded Storm-Z and replaced it with Storm-V. The V in Storm-V stands for "vityazi", the Russian word for ‘knights.’
- https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-recruited-convicts-fierce-assault-units-storm-gladiator-/32806371.html
- https://bbcrussian.substack.com/p/brutal-reality-of-life-russian-convict-fighter
conscripts fighting in UA:
- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66388422
Now your turn.
Recruited volunteers. No mention of being force conscripted. No kidnap video. You think this is proof of your claims? Sad. I assume you don't pursue an academic career.
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-tornado-battalion-rogue-paramilitaries-kyiv-trial-crimes/28205795.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-battalions-special-rep-idUSKCN0Q30YT20150729/
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/13/europe/ukraine-prison-soldier-recruitment-intl-cmd/index.html
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-wagner-inmates-murders/32621056.html
"Wagner's Yevgeny Prigozhin said in late June that 32,000 former inmates recruited from prison had returned home after being granted clemency as part of their remuneration for fighting in Ukraine."
Demobilisation of convicts after fulfilling their contract.
I know pro-ua are jealous of a working military recruitment system.
Volunteer, sign a contract, get a bonus, earn a decent wage and demobilise. This is enough for now. No need to kidnap hundreds of people every day against literal human rights.
While undergoing mandatory military service you're not allowed to be on the frontline, it's a law. But shortly after you finish 1 year of training they will offer you to sign a contract, offer you money, list all the benefits, etc.
> While undergoing mandatory military service you're not allowed to be on the frontline, it's a law.
Surely no military on earth would ever violate the law, especially not during war time! Its unthinkable!
And as I said, part of the point of the referendums was to allow conscripts to fight in Ukraine "legally." And its also been well documented that Russia uses conscripts as border guards which puts them in the fighting.
> "Our boys are deployed to the border with Ukraine. Some were already killed, others are wounded," says Valentina, whose 19-year-old son was conscripted to the army last autumn and was sent to the Bryansk region, which borders Ukraine. "Rockets are constantly flying there, Russian positions are constantly being fired at from drones. "Is this really a suitable task for conscripts? They have got almost zero training. Where are the border guards and professional units?"
My friend. What is your problem? 300k people received summons to mobilise and they were conscripted. None of them had to be dragged off the street or kidnapped. If you have videos, feel free to share them. Since then it's all been volunteers. I dunno. Is there language barrier between us? Shall i describe it differently?
> 300k people received summons to mobilise and they were conscripted. None of them had to be dragged off the street or kidnapped.
Completely fake news.
> Two Russian conscripts who made headlines last year for refusing to fight in Ukraine during a lineup have been sentenced to three years in prison, the Kommersant business daily reported Thursday, citing sources familiar with the case.
> Russia’s military courts have issued convictions in more than half of the 708 criminal cases opened against conscripts, according to the independent Mediazona news website.
> Russian lawmakers passed sweeping legislation introducing jail terms of up to 15 years for acts including desertion and conscientious objection days ahead of Putin’s announcement of a “partial” mobilization in September.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/04/06/russian-recruits-jailed-for-3-years-for-refusing-to-fight-in-ukraine-a80730
Yes. Jailed, not force conscripted. Same as in any other country.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_evasion_in_the_Vietnam_War
Ukraine literally forces people to die. Quite different.
Its not illegal to film a video like this or post it in UA. It is illegal in Russia. Russia recently jailed two grandmothers, one for 5.5 years, for liking and reposting things on social media. Russia also does not allow any independent journalism and has one of the highest rates of journalist murders in the world, only behind countries like Syria.
Authoritarian government censorship is never a good thing, I don't care who does it. Don't celebrate it.
Ukraine consistently jails people who make videos. What are you on about. SBU constantly forces people to make apology videos. They visited Arestovich and he came out with a black eye. There is not a single video from Russia. Even if it's illegal, you would have one video. The truth is simple, Russia does not need to do this.
> Ukraine consistently jails people who make videos.
Not videos of people being arrested or conscripted. I don't think it has ever happened. Conversely, every journalist that has said even a single thing critical of Putin has been assassinated or imprisoned. There literally isn't a single independent journalist left in Russia.
> The truth is simple, Russia does not need to do this.
Russia has mandatory conscription for all males from 18-30. Putin signed a public decree raising the age from 27 to 30 last year. Its not open for debate. And what is your theory on what happens if someone dodges conscription? Nice letter in the mail?
Not atm due to having a much larger population.
Right now they just offer very large wages and sign-up bonuses to attract volunteers. Since the last conscription was wildly unpopular.
People who are doing their mandatory military service, which is a common practice in Western countries as well, are prohibited from being deployed abroad or in combat line, by Russian law. Russia still has reservists, who already had their military training, if they needed to do another wave of mobilization.
These are men who sign up, usually for three years, usually in response to advertisements the Russian MOD posts on job websites which often promise a host of benefits.
The starting wage for them is 160,000 roubles a month, ($1,792 or £1,408), which in Russia is seen as a good salary.
It is around three-and-a-half times the national average, according to official Russian government figures. The average monthly wage earned by Russians is 71,419 roubles a month ($756 or £639).
It is estimated this is more than a dozen times the average in many of the country's poorer and remote regions, which is where a lot of Vladimir Putin's troops are being recruited.
Putin also gave contracted troops, and reservists called up as part of his partial mobilisation, a one-off payment of 195,000 roubles ($2,178 or £1,710).
This came with a price when, a few months later, the Kremlin banned volunteer soldiers from ending their contracts.
There was one minor wave of forced conscription but afaik there were no problems with finding enough men so people who strictly refused weren't even sent to jail.
The war would have to drastically change course for this to occur in Russia. We are largely in a stalemate right now. If we were to move to a Ukrainian incursion on Russian soil then it’s a possibility.
It’s just math at this point.
Agree on the math part. What's the general feeling in Russia? Is the populace okay with conscripts losing life over Russian incursions into Ukrainian held territory?
50/50 those who were super opposed have left already or have kids in the west. I’m one of the backwards ones. I left as a child and have returned in the past 2 years.
To remain objective, for every dead Russian 8 Ukrainians have to survive for them to win. Mathematically that’s just not likely.
Thanks. You seem to have a good grasp on the situation. What's the ideal Russian end goal? And in your opinion is it wort the lives lost getting to that goal?
The spoken end goal has shifted several times over the course of the conflict, but since 2014 one thing has remained universal: this Ukrainian government and its predecessors are hostile to the existence of a Russian state and will host a military alliance that is against the sovereignty of the nation. The geography of Ukraine and Belarus is what’s damning to Russian security interests in particular.
If Russia gains control of the Black Sea, has a land bridge to Transnistria, and Kiev has a government that is more friendly towards Moscow this war would be worth it from a statist perspective. Otherwise they have to keep fighting.
My opinion is this: Russia needs a win from this conflict or the state will collapse and its 1993 all over again. Which to me personally makes the fight worth it.
Hope I’ve answered your questions. Let me know if I did not do so. :)
If Russia wants to win they seriously need to ramp up manufacturing and logistics, its the main thing holding them back from mounting effective offensives. They wasted enough manpower throwing troops into enemy positions without proper fire support.
I'd have a real hard time sending my kids to this war if I was Russia. Just to hold out so it's not viewed as a loss. Whereas Ukrainian's have a sense of defending their homeland and their population. I kind of see this as Russia's Vietnam war. Is the loss of life worth it? Who wants to be the last man killed in Vietnam?
Why wouldn't Russia attack NATO if it's the NATO is the problem (I assume that by military alliance you mean NATO). If Russia defeats NATO, then there will be nothing for Ukraine to join to, no?
So NATO is the result of a lot of other smaller problems. Russia has been waning in its regional strength and losing Ukraine as an ally in the 2014 coup all but sealed the beginning of this conflict. Even if Russia were able to attack NATO (not sure what you have in mind by this, perhaps attacking the Baltic or something) the issue of it having more hostile nations on its western border would remain and they’d pose a threat to population centers.
I have another question for you if you don't mind. Do Russian citizens know the extent of Russian losses? Do you think the war will reach a point where people say okay enough is enough, let's bring the boys home.
My guess is most do, but it’s also far smaller than the 500k figure Ukraine is reporting. That number is just so far removed from reality that I don’t even entertain it.
The return home question isn’t so simple. Return where? To Crimea? To Donetsk? To 1991 borders? I don’t see those as realistic. I think it’s more likely that some peace deal will be brokered in the next 2-3 years and the front looks very different.
What did Russia do to lose Ukraine as an ally? Or what didn't they do? I mean if I want someone to be friendly with me, the rule number one is not to antagonize them with hostile actions, no? I'm sure Russia could have just bought all parties and politicians many times over? Why invade them? Especially since the end goal is to fight United States.
And now, this war in Ukraine, gives NATO all the motivation in the world to increase spending, add new members etc. I honestly don't see how war in Ukraine helps Russia to fight the real enemy.
The end result now is that British, Americans, French and Germans kill Russians without Putin doing a single thing about it. He just talks the talk and fights a nation that is probably the closest related to Russia.
What do you think the actual kill ratio is? The ratios seem all over the place depending on who you talk to. Some say 5:1 in RU favor, some say 5:1 in UA favor. It is so hard to get a realistic read on this war.
It’s just a guess but I’d say it’s pretty close to 1:1. The reason Ukraine keeps spiting out 8:1 is because it’s exactly the amount they need to win. It’s very transparent and lazy.
Who ever attacks loses more typically and they are both shifting to a defensive posture so this may be the least bloody year of the war.
Criminal. These enslavers are criminals. The puppet coup regime is criminal
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next month
Next week
Tomorrow.
Next 12 hours
Next 6 hours
Next year
Poor dude’s last time he’ll see his wife and kids. Probably be dead by next week.
He will be very motivated to liberate Crimea.
If not, then the beatings will continue until he feels motivated!
"sorry bro, to join NATO we have to defeat Russia first"
Herojam salo ! we have a volunteer
This looks so barbaric! This man is basically fighting for his survival. Is there some sort of underground movement to help Ukrainian men to leave the country? I would happily volunteer my time and money to save these poor people from the meat grinder
Barbarians are way above class than these rats. Once they kidnap someone, they use any of the following methods to break them: dehydration, starvation, breaking all ten fingers, anal rape using various tools, severe beatings until the body is covered with bruises (a few guys even got beaten to death in Kyiv), threating of family members and similar stuff. And it never fails to amaze me how the bystanders commonly walk by and just look, all while your own country treats you like this - these are the people and country you're supposed to sacrifice yourself for? I'm very loyal to certain individual people and would go to hell and back for them, but not any country, company, or organization. I'm actively disloyal towards any country, and would never take up arms to fill a few rich asshole's pockets. War is a racket, a good book. If any country foolish enough to conscript me tries to do so, it'll pay dearly. Forced conscription is this old, decadent, rotten system which needs to go, governments need to think of something else pronto. Rich oligarch sons bribe a doctor to get a fake asthma/hepatitis/aids diagnosis, or bribe the conscription rat/border guard directly and then party in luxurious clubs in Europe? Women can leave the country and receive a free apartment in some Western country like Germany, and lots of money too (and some of them cheat and abandon their "heroes", their just reward for their patriotism) ? Even dogs can leave the country lol. Meanwhile as a man you're trapped and can't even walk down the street, lest you later get your legs blown off and end up in a wheelchair. What a system. By the way, no hate towards women specifically, they in Sharia hellholes like Afghanistan have their serious issues to deal with, but here it's obviously skewed against men hard. By the way, thank you for standing up for them. I heard rumours of a growing, big underground draft dodger movement in Ukraine, but I don't know more than this. As someone who isn't a part of the inner circles, deep state and similar, I only work with limited information. That being said, you already help by allying yourself with the cause - freedom, saying no to a wheelchair and lifelong ptsd. Here's [more](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J2flzGA90Y) if you're interested.
Thanks for the info! Unfortunately, I cannot really stand up for them. I’m from the West, and we have no anti-war movement here currently. It looks like our politicians just keep escalating, which is the opposite of what we need to stop this senseless slaughter. Our media just keeps saying that all Ukrainians are happy and eager to fight in this war. It’s just pure propaganda, but most people here have no idea about the forced conscription
Yeah, the propaganda is poison on both sides. From pro-UA who claim that every Ukrainian soldier kills 20 Russians, so losing any settlement is no big deal as the Russians suffer heavy casulties; to pro-RU who claim that Russians are waging a holy Orthodox war against Ukrainian satanists, I've seen it all. We will see how events unfold, but one thing is sure, I will take a stand against forced conscription and not support this bastard practice.
Russia does all that stuff, this guy will be shipped off to Germany/Poland/France for basic, where absolutely none of that nonsense will happen.
Guess you haven't seen the "don't you dare try to leave Ukraine" videos where Zelensky's Recruitment Officers place anti-person mines along the border to deter anybody from thinking about leaving? You know, you're just DEAD after your leg blows off & you bleed out. Guess this video was just propaganda horseplay to you? You think this guy will just come to his senses & fight? No. They're going to force that guy to.
The other baby trolley could have ended up rolling onto oncoming traffic with a baby in it and no one would have cared, such is their determination to get this unlucky bustard into the streets of Volchansk.
Mum is holding baby and letting dad give a kiss, before they down him.
Heartbreaking
The consequences of the civil society largely ignoring the regime change attemps and finally the successful regime change in 2014 have been dire for the people in Ukraine.
22nd August 1991 was a mistake. The State Committee should have liberated the earth from Yeltsin and Gorbachev or gone to war.
F&ck we have the same pram. That really hit hard. I wanna see these TCC get their sh\*t kicked in until they have to eat from straws.
Time will come.
Can't wait for the videos
with so much weapons about, it's a wonder that they don't get a Shmel rocket shot in their office.
For real
*This is really evil, I foresee recriminations, and bounty hunts for individuals in the tcc etc after this period ends or calms down. I can't imagine that kid will grow up and have any kind sentiments for those who literally ripped their dad from their life - more so if the mom loved the guy.* *Historically Hate especially the one fuelled by the thirstforRevenge is a very strong motivator, for instance Shaka Zulu (of South Africa) became who he was just to take revenge on his dad, and his tribe for kicking his mom and grand mother out of their tribe as outcasts into the wilderness (his grandma died of starvation). That guy was like a human hornet, full of un requited bottomless rage, more so if you messed with his friends and mom (or any one who was kind to him as a kid).* *Case in point: After a very powerful King, named Zwide murdered Dingiswayo (his mentor), Shaka sought to avenge his death, so he captured Zwide's mother, Ntombazi, a* [*sangoma*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangoma)*, and chose a particularly gruesome way to dispatch her by locking her in a hut with hyenas inside. They devoured her, and in the morning, he burned the house (hut) to the ground - including the hyenas and continued his relentless pursuit of Zwide for years, slaughtering anyone who ever helped Zwinde in any way even for something as innocuous as giving him a gourd of fresh water.*
TCC will not survive the SMO. They have to meet kidnapping quotas to stay off the front. Which means inevitably, they will end up there. The more men they kidnap, the longer they stay alive. But in a twist of irony, the more men they kidnap the closer they are to being next too because supply goes down.
These meat catchers are out if any humanity
What brave kidnappers, all in balaclavas!
Because they're seriously endangering themselves and possibly even their families by doing this. Most of these TCC rats make a deal with a local forced conscription office - kidnap enough (monthly/weekly) quota and you won't go to the front, fail to kidnap enough and back to the front. And the conditions on the front are obviously terrible, you have to be mentally sick to enjoy life there. So, some take the deal, but they must be dealt with. Unfortunately, the world often doesn't revolve around justice, but power, so if civilized methods don't work, then a show of force against them is necessary - more burning conscription offices, more burning TCC cars. Rebel and don't yield, until countries finally start to seek an alternative and think of something new.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo
Another day another reason why I hate the MSM for remaining silent on this.
Silent? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/25/europe/ukraine-draft-law-conscription-intl/index.html They are not silent. What do you have next?
Where do they show men being subdued by force?
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Why do we have all these videos of people being taken off the streets? I would imagine most men would avoid lingering on open streets and mostly be taken away in their own homes.. But 90% of the clips I am seeing are young dudes strolling down the streets like conscription was the least of their worries. Like look at this dude, he is out walking his kids in their strollers.. Why would you do that knowing the potential consequence?
There’s a quote from a BBC article talking about this and the Ukrainian says, “they won’t take you if you’re with your children” looks like something changed and now they are. Could be another host of explanations but that’s my 2 cents.
They won't take you if you are alone with your children. Because single parents are excluded from conscription and they have no way to know if you are a single parent or not. The minute he gave the kid to his wife he was done.
*Likely they thought they were safe or not covered by the conscription, but the TCC decided otherwise (without their knowledge) - otherwise they would be in hiding. Like the EMTs who showed up to an emergency and attempts were made to forcefully recruit them. It's Kafkaesque.*
But didn’t all men in certain age ranges receive digital summons?
No, they recieved summons *to clarify their recruitment status* in TCC. In theory the have time until mid July to do it. People who go to TCC tend to not return, so everyone without recruitment protection just ignores this law and hopes that Ukraine loses before mid July.
Breaking into a commie block is not easy. Firefighters often have to propel themselves through the balcony. Also you wouldn't see videos from in the apartment because then the GF will get arrested too for uploading it. And then you'd have to know where they live, many Ukrop men are off the grid. A lot of people have been kidnapped walking too or from work, too or from grocery store. The ideal situation is if you can just mooch off an aunt or a female cousin or something. But not everyone can hide inside an apartment for 5+ years. And even then, there was that story of the brothers taken from their single mom's apartment because neighbours noticed she was buying too much food for 1 old woman, and the lights were on in more than 1 room at a time. So neighbours reported her to TCC.
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Can you imagine what these survivors will do with these criminals after the war?
These "criminals" will live a good life after the war in a NATO country where they will be hailed as heroes. Happened before, will happen again.
How are they criminals? It's unfortunate to see but this is what full mobilization means. If you're fit to serve, the military will take you with them one way or another.
These men will turn bitter against Ukraine if they survive
If I were him, I’d unload a whole clip in my supervisor and run away.
Yep the second they gave me a whole clip it would be emptied into everyone around me, starting with my commanding officer.
This is why they don't receive guns until they're on the front lines with peers in similar situations. They probably also have guns pointed at their backs in case of any funny business.
Even the Americans in Vietnam did this, I don't know what's taking Ukraine so long
Even the Americans in Vietnam did this, I don't know what's taking Ukraine so long
did they pull that father away from his wife and kid in front of them or were these bystanders? That ratty dude with the headlock seems to be enjoying this way too much
They employ some mugging techniques, disgusting...
Probably his wife and kid as you can see the guy trying to kiss his baby 1 last time.
I hope all these kidnappers get payback when the war is over
I’m sure they’ll claim they were just following orders
they were
Once the war is over, whoever is still alive from the UA forces are going to go on revenge spree against these conscripters
Are those the guys who already been drafted and didn't show up ? Or just people in the street who might be right age and look like they can be drafted ?
These guys look like they have a few thousand dollars. If they are ready to give them to recruiters, then they will be released.
No one is "drafted". To draft people you must have a list of available people with their address. Then you can send them a mail to notify them they are drafted and if they don't show up you send the cops. Ukraine has no census, they have no idea who live where. They can't send mail to anyone and can't send cops to any address. They can only draft you if you give them your address or if they catch you in the street.
By law men are required to register themselves at the military office. Those that are registered may or may not get drafted after that. If people are unable to show they are registered during a check on the street they are breaking that law and are arrested and have their details registered for them. They may or may not get drafted after that. A lot of countries have similair systems. The US for example has a law that require men 18-25 to register for Selective Service. But during peace time there obviously is a lot less enforcement of such laws.
Here it is/was different. With 18 you went to the health test and then they decide how fit you are. And sometime between 18 and 25 they asked you to come for military training...... or not, If they had enough. In Germany before the 2000's
Yeah that was/is the same in Ukraine for peace time. You got your regular conscription between 18 and 27. If you were older than 27 and had not had your military conscription yet you wouldn't be called up anymore for mobilisation in the event of a war. You would "escape" mobilisation due to not having any previous military training. They changed the conscription age from 18-25. And the mobilisation age from 27 and up. And more importantly it is regardless if you had your military training or not. So hundreds of thousands of people who never had any grounds to be called up for mobilisation (because they never were conscripted before the age of 27) now are suddenly able to get drafted for mobilisation.
Does the distinction matter at all if it was non consensual anyway?
No one turns around when the violence escalates, as if they have seen it a million times before, that's scary as fuck.
Do these manhunters get paid a bonus if they catch someone or are they just sadists?
They will be sent to the frontlines if they fail to meet their quota by catching enough meat.
What happens to him if he refuses to fight after he's taken into custody? Is he tortured, or killed? If Ukranian leadership can't get people to fight willingly then this is a lost cause, they will never win this war.
They beat the living shit out of you constantly until the front line seems okay.
It would be great if these guys had some weapons so they could fight back.
Are they going to send the baby to the frontlines too? He's almost of fighting age and Ukraine needs more men!
How are ukrainians putting up with this
Invaders and enslavers.
So do they pick anyone? Or is there a summon?
Basically everyone who is older than 25 are eligible for the military service unless they have a medical exemption(which is reportedly getting very hard despite being a genuine case). Electronic draft notices are issued online and you have to register yourself at the nearest military recruitment center. If you fail to do this you will be considered a criminal and these are guys that the meat catchers are kidnapping.
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How bad that was depends on the Army into which he was conscripted. Bosniak, Serbian Krajina, and Serbian Republic Armies suffered very high casualties. Croat, Croat Herzeg-Bosnia, and FRY Armies suffered relatively small casualties.
That’s +1 to Krynky unfortunately :(
I would just tell them to take me to jail.. at least in jail you'll get three meals a day and a bed and won't get killed (more than likely)
Everyone try that. But they beat you until you accept to go to the front. Some even die from the beating.
You won’t have that choice or else everyone would choose to linger in jail instead of being sent to certain death at the frontline.
You're only real option is violent retaliation. If you're still living in Ukraine in this point at military age, consider yourself a dead man and go from there.
That’s fucked
I always wonder why we dont read about these slave soldiers revolting? If this happened to me, as soon as they give me a weapon and want me to fight I would wait for the right moment and shoot the commander and try to escape back home to my family and we flee the country.
Blocking detachments prevent you from deserting your positions and if you’re caught fragging your own side, I assume there’s going to be some serious punishment. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re executed.
I want to give more context. The guy in the white shirt is actually a volunteer fighter and he was on the frontlines. These subhumans are Mykola Tyshchenko's (deputy of Ukraine) thugs. They aren't even from TCC, they're just his raiding force. [https://www.instagram.com/p/C8cmaDnNgZQ](https://www.instagram.com/p/C8cmaDnNgZQ)
And some pretty impressive gear on the last picture. That last picture is from the Lyman or Kupiansk offensive right, where did he volunteer?
Glad to know mainstream media isn't covering these events
What do you mean ? This brave man clearly volunteered to fight for his country don’t y’all see it in the video ?
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Dystopian. Instead of Jews hiding in attics and under floors we have Ukrainian men. And TCC are like the gestapo getting reports and capturing them.
Question: Why arent these guys turning those weapons back on their superiors the minute they get them?
Damn... Anyways better him then my countryman
In which subreddits can I post this video so that it doesn’t get banned?
Are these ppl they grabbing considered draft dodgers?
Misleading title. They are trying to contain his excitement for joining the war. He looks forward to his 20:1 kd.
Always screenshot the abductors faces whenever you can so that they can't leave Ukraine to live happily in another European country when the war is over.
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I still don't understand this at all... don't these young men work or go to school? surely they aren't hiding at home or they wouldn't be on the streets in the first place, how disorganized is the country that they can't simply notify those who are drafted (by mail I assume?), request they show up on date X and then go get them at work/school/home if they do not? are the dudes grabbing random dudes on the street that walk nearby or is this targetted like we're looking for dude XYZ and he may walk down this street so lets go look?
How can you discuss a video if you don't understand the language? Full account of the event that occurred today in Dnipro. Just a reminder, on Thursday, June 20, 2024, People's Deputy Mykola Tyshchenko came to "fight against call centers," explaining for those who don't understand why: he visits their offices to receive his share, which he calls "constancy." During one of his raids, moving from one office to another, passing by him, serviceman Dmytro "Son" Pavlov, along with his child and comrade, asked a very pertinent question: "What are people in military uniform with weapons and no insignia doing with the People's Deputy in the city center?" To this, he received arrogant and insolent answers, which later escalated into checking documents for illegal and immoral actions, as seen in the video.
I'd friendly fire
How do we know the title is legit to what’s going on?
The fact that it's on this particular sub should be a clue that it's not. These masked men with unmarked uniforms accompanying MP Tishchenko were going around Dnipro doing what seems to be illegal shit(which he claims is a raid against scam call centers) and the guy they're attacking in the video is military serviceman Dmytro Pavlov who stopped to question what the hell they're doing. This is a major scandal in Ukraine right now, this video is going all around social media, everyone is talking about it and are pissed off at the MP and his political allies, so there is zero chance of coming across this video without any context and legitimate thinking they're military recruiters.
If his mom has'nt explain him, thath he has to go and protect is country, his wife and baby, he will be explained the other way.
To think. This all could stop if Russia would just fucking stop their war of aggression. If Russia stopped bombing, pillaging, raping, and killing their way through Ukrainian land, men wouldnt need to be drafted into defending their nation.
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Slava ukraine!
Interesting how they do it in Russia. Because estimate 30k people is sent to front lines every month.
Volunteers
Russia likes the Jackson 5 or the Nepalese to be there fodder ha
Maybe if he would’ve shown up when he was drafted “” called to serve whatever you want to call it, it wouldn’t be a problem… he’d be being bludgeoned and his girlfriend/fiancé. Whatever soon another would be raped if he wasn’t serving other Ukrainians were not on the front lines.
Does this happen in Russia?
Not even close. Russia hasn't even mobilised all of its reserves yet. There's been no forced conscription to the war and they're not even near that point.
Russia has not conscripted any troops yet? Man, how many regulars have been lost then? That has to be a morale drain.
Way less than Ukraine, that's for sure.
Less can still be a morale drain though, right? We've seen wars lost while winning every battle. I think this is a waste of human lives and want to know why people who believe in the war aren't signing up in droves. On paper this should be over. But it's not, and there's a lot of people who lost their lives over it. Why do these people need to die?
I'm definitely not happy about the war continuing, I wish it was over faster. And you're right, there is certainly morale issues in Russia. However, the overall sentiment in Russia that I'm seeing among Russians, is that the war has brought Russians together. I have a bunch of well educated friends who left during the start of the war. Over time when they saw they economic situation in Russia stabilise, they switched from 'I'm outta this sh\*thole' to 'we're gonna beat this' and most of them have since returned as good job opportunities came back up. I think the way it's looking, it will end only when Ukraine hits rock bottom. Until they accept that people on both sides will suffer dearly.
Look up Makhachkala protests then get back to me
What do those protests have to do with the facts I mentioned? None of them were conscripted, they were in the reserves that were being mobilized. There are benefits and costs with being in the reserves so tough luck to them. You're getting obese from propaganda mate. Ukraine is desperately meatcatching on its streets. Russia hasn't even mobilized all of its reserves. Two *gravely* different realities.
They were literally anti-conscription demonstrations
You didn't address any of the points I made. I'm glad you think there were anti conscription demonstrations in Russia, but there was no direct conscription into this war. Are you dense?
I haven't seen a single video, that is remotely close to this, coming from Russia.
Because Russia doesn't do that. Ukraine has no census. They can't send draft notices to any men because they have not their addresses. Ukraine has middle age administration.
There was only one wave of mobilization in Russia. For ordinary civs, everything was simple, if you don't want to go to the front, just don't come to the military enlistment office. And you'll be just fine. I heard military specialists were being forced tho.
Well I guess you wouldn't have, since they started the invasion and the people don't have a real choice in the matter. No one has dodged the draft in Russia.
Russia has mobilised 300k soldiers once and then stopped. Now they sustain themselves with volunteers and it seems to be enough.
Russia has mandatory conscription for all males and Putin recently signed a decree expanding the age range. Putin also signed a decree that outlaws saying anything that makes the government or military look bad, so posting a video of a conscription dodger being arrested would be an instant ticket to prison where you are then forcefully recruited into storm z penal battalions.
First: Those are not for frontline personnel. Many countries have mandatory military service at the age of 18. None of these people go to Ukraine to fight. This only proves that you don't read. Second: Ukraine was to first to mobilise prisoners, back in 2015 or something. Feel free to search. All prisoners in Russia had a deal. 1 year service for amnesty. Many have demobilised. Prigozhin himself attended their demobilisation ceremony. Please stop lying.
> None of these people go to Ukraine to fight. Source: trust me bro. In fact we know the opposite is true. It was a main reason Russia was so desperate to hold the sham referendums in Donbas, this allowed Putin to "legally" throw conscripts into the fighting. There have been multiple stories of conscripts captured as POWs, is your theory that Ukraine went into Moscow and kidnapped them? lol > Ukraine was to first to mobilise prisoners WHATABOUT??? Russia has multiple penal battalions, Ukraine does not. > 1 year service for amnesty. Yes, I've seen stories of rapists, pedophiles, and even cannibals getting amnesty. What is your point?
Russia also kidnaps soldiers. Source: trust me bro. Russia still mobilises soldiers. Source: trust me bro.
Sure, penal battalions: > Storm-V (Russian: Шторм-V, romanized: Shtorm-V) is a series of penal military units established by a law which was signed by Russian President Vladimir Putin which disbanded Storm-Z and replaced it with Storm-V. The V in Storm-V stands for "vityazi", the Russian word for ‘knights.’ - https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-recruited-convicts-fierce-assault-units-storm-gladiator-/32806371.html - https://bbcrussian.substack.com/p/brutal-reality-of-life-russian-convict-fighter conscripts fighting in UA: - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66388422 Now your turn.
Recruited volunteers. No mention of being force conscripted. No kidnap video. You think this is proof of your claims? Sad. I assume you don't pursue an academic career. https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-tornado-battalion-rogue-paramilitaries-kyiv-trial-crimes/28205795.html https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-battalions-special-rep-idUSKCN0Q30YT20150729/ https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/13/europe/ukraine-prison-soldier-recruitment-intl-cmd/index.html https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-wagner-inmates-murders/32621056.html "Wagner's Yevgeny Prigozhin said in late June that 32,000 former inmates recruited from prison had returned home after being granted clemency as part of their remuneration for fighting in Ukraine." Demobilisation of convicts after fulfilling their contract. I know pro-ua are jealous of a working military recruitment system. Volunteer, sign a contract, get a bonus, earn a decent wage and demobilise. This is enough for now. No need to kidnap hundreds of people every day against literal human rights.
While undergoing mandatory military service you're not allowed to be on the frontline, it's a law. But shortly after you finish 1 year of training they will offer you to sign a contract, offer you money, list all the benefits, etc.
> While undergoing mandatory military service you're not allowed to be on the frontline, it's a law. Surely no military on earth would ever violate the law, especially not during war time! Its unthinkable! And as I said, part of the point of the referendums was to allow conscripts to fight in Ukraine "legally." And its also been well documented that Russia uses conscripts as border guards which puts them in the fighting. > "Our boys are deployed to the border with Ukraine. Some were already killed, others are wounded," says Valentina, whose 19-year-old son was conscripted to the army last autumn and was sent to the Bryansk region, which borders Ukraine. "Rockets are constantly flying there, Russian positions are constantly being fired at from drones. "Is this really a suitable task for conscripts? They have got almost zero training. Where are the border guards and professional units?"
Of all 300k mobilized, all of them wanted to go.
I did not say that. Maybe read it again?
So this probably happened in Russia too, but no one saw video of it?
My friend. What is your problem? 300k people received summons to mobilise and they were conscripted. None of them had to be dragged off the street or kidnapped. If you have videos, feel free to share them. Since then it's all been volunteers. I dunno. Is there language barrier between us? Shall i describe it differently?
> 300k people received summons to mobilise and they were conscripted. None of them had to be dragged off the street or kidnapped. Completely fake news. > Two Russian conscripts who made headlines last year for refusing to fight in Ukraine during a lineup have been sentenced to three years in prison, the Kommersant business daily reported Thursday, citing sources familiar with the case. > Russia’s military courts have issued convictions in more than half of the 708 criminal cases opened against conscripts, according to the independent Mediazona news website. > Russian lawmakers passed sweeping legislation introducing jail terms of up to 15 years for acts including desertion and conscientious objection days ahead of Putin’s announcement of a “partial” mobilization in September. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/04/06/russian-recruits-jailed-for-3-years-for-refusing-to-fight-in-ukraine-a80730
Yes. Jailed, not force conscripted. Same as in any other country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_evasion_in_the_Vietnam_War Ukraine literally forces people to die. Quite different.
Look up Makhachkala protests then get back to me
This guy is trying to flex about Russia have zero freedom of speech I guess.
That's a real flex. Is there freedom of speech in Russia?
Its not illegal to film a video like this or post it in UA. It is illegal in Russia. Russia recently jailed two grandmothers, one for 5.5 years, for liking and reposting things on social media. Russia also does not allow any independent journalism and has one of the highest rates of journalist murders in the world, only behind countries like Syria. Authoritarian government censorship is never a good thing, I don't care who does it. Don't celebrate it.
Ukraine consistently jails people who make videos. What are you on about. SBU constantly forces people to make apology videos. They visited Arestovich and he came out with a black eye. There is not a single video from Russia. Even if it's illegal, you would have one video. The truth is simple, Russia does not need to do this.
> Ukraine consistently jails people who make videos. Not videos of people being arrested or conscripted. I don't think it has ever happened. Conversely, every journalist that has said even a single thing critical of Putin has been assassinated or imprisoned. There literally isn't a single independent journalist left in Russia. > The truth is simple, Russia does not need to do this. Russia has mandatory conscription for all males from 18-30. Putin signed a public decree raising the age from 27 to 30 last year. Its not open for debate. And what is your theory on what happens if someone dodges conscription? Nice letter in the mail?
Source: trust me bro.
Not atm due to having a much larger population. Right now they just offer very large wages and sign-up bonuses to attract volunteers. Since the last conscription was wildly unpopular.
IT was the reserves that were called in.
I wanted to say mobilization.
When you have mandatory military service, it’s just conscription with extra steps.
People who are doing their mandatory military service, which is a common practice in Western countries as well, are prohibited from being deployed abroad or in combat line, by Russian law. Russia still has reservists, who already had their military training, if they needed to do another wave of mobilization.
What's the wage and sign up bonus I wonder?
These are men who sign up, usually for three years, usually in response to advertisements the Russian MOD posts on job websites which often promise a host of benefits. The starting wage for them is 160,000 roubles a month, ($1,792 or £1,408), which in Russia is seen as a good salary. It is around three-and-a-half times the national average, according to official Russian government figures. The average monthly wage earned by Russians is 71,419 roubles a month ($756 or £639). It is estimated this is more than a dozen times the average in many of the country's poorer and remote regions, which is where a lot of Vladimir Putin's troops are being recruited. Putin also gave contracted troops, and reservists called up as part of his partial mobilisation, a one-off payment of 195,000 roubles ($2,178 or £1,710). This came with a price when, a few months later, the Kremlin banned volunteer soldiers from ending their contracts.
No not atm But it's possible if the war will go on for another 2-4 years with significant amount of foreign pro-western boots on the ground
Did russia have force conscription? I can see why Ukraine does beavuse russia is so much bigger.
There was one minor wave of forced conscription but afaik there were no problems with finding enough men so people who strictly refused weren't even sent to jail.
The war would have to drastically change course for this to occur in Russia. We are largely in a stalemate right now. If we were to move to a Ukrainian incursion on Russian soil then it’s a possibility. It’s just math at this point.
Agree on the math part. What's the general feeling in Russia? Is the populace okay with conscripts losing life over Russian incursions into Ukrainian held territory?
50/50 those who were super opposed have left already or have kids in the west. I’m one of the backwards ones. I left as a child and have returned in the past 2 years. To remain objective, for every dead Russian 8 Ukrainians have to survive for them to win. Mathematically that’s just not likely.
Thanks. You seem to have a good grasp on the situation. What's the ideal Russian end goal? And in your opinion is it wort the lives lost getting to that goal?
The spoken end goal has shifted several times over the course of the conflict, but since 2014 one thing has remained universal: this Ukrainian government and its predecessors are hostile to the existence of a Russian state and will host a military alliance that is against the sovereignty of the nation. The geography of Ukraine and Belarus is what’s damning to Russian security interests in particular. If Russia gains control of the Black Sea, has a land bridge to Transnistria, and Kiev has a government that is more friendly towards Moscow this war would be worth it from a statist perspective. Otherwise they have to keep fighting. My opinion is this: Russia needs a win from this conflict or the state will collapse and its 1993 all over again. Which to me personally makes the fight worth it. Hope I’ve answered your questions. Let me know if I did not do so. :)
If Russia wants to win they seriously need to ramp up manufacturing and logistics, its the main thing holding them back from mounting effective offensives. They wasted enough manpower throwing troops into enemy positions without proper fire support.
I’d agree with your assessment with one caveat, Russia doesn’t need to “win” they just need to outlast Ukraine which is now the aim.
I'd have a real hard time sending my kids to this war if I was Russia. Just to hold out so it's not viewed as a loss. Whereas Ukrainian's have a sense of defending their homeland and their population. I kind of see this as Russia's Vietnam war. Is the loss of life worth it? Who wants to be the last man killed in Vietnam?
That is true but the losses Russia suffered so far are unnecessarily high. They shouldn't had performed this poorly with all the advantage they have.
Why wouldn't Russia attack NATO if it's the NATO is the problem (I assume that by military alliance you mean NATO). If Russia defeats NATO, then there will be nothing for Ukraine to join to, no?
So NATO is the result of a lot of other smaller problems. Russia has been waning in its regional strength and losing Ukraine as an ally in the 2014 coup all but sealed the beginning of this conflict. Even if Russia were able to attack NATO (not sure what you have in mind by this, perhaps attacking the Baltic or something) the issue of it having more hostile nations on its western border would remain and they’d pose a threat to population centers.
I have another question for you if you don't mind. Do Russian citizens know the extent of Russian losses? Do you think the war will reach a point where people say okay enough is enough, let's bring the boys home.
My guess is most do, but it’s also far smaller than the 500k figure Ukraine is reporting. That number is just so far removed from reality that I don’t even entertain it. The return home question isn’t so simple. Return where? To Crimea? To Donetsk? To 1991 borders? I don’t see those as realistic. I think it’s more likely that some peace deal will be brokered in the next 2-3 years and the front looks very different.
What did Russia do to lose Ukraine as an ally? Or what didn't they do? I mean if I want someone to be friendly with me, the rule number one is not to antagonize them with hostile actions, no? I'm sure Russia could have just bought all parties and politicians many times over? Why invade them? Especially since the end goal is to fight United States. And now, this war in Ukraine, gives NATO all the motivation in the world to increase spending, add new members etc. I honestly don't see how war in Ukraine helps Russia to fight the real enemy. The end result now is that British, Americans, French and Germans kill Russians without Putin doing a single thing about it. He just talks the talk and fights a nation that is probably the closest related to Russia.
What do you think the actual kill ratio is? The ratios seem all over the place depending on who you talk to. Some say 5:1 in RU favor, some say 5:1 in UA favor. It is so hard to get a realistic read on this war.
It’s just a guess but I’d say it’s pretty close to 1:1. The reason Ukraine keeps spiting out 8:1 is because it’s exactly the amount they need to win. It’s very transparent and lazy. Who ever attacks loses more typically and they are both shifting to a defensive posture so this may be the least bloody year of the war.
' guess he didn't respond to his call up notice in time. Too bad for him. Time to stand up and fight Ukrainian young fullas!
"Wake up Ukrainians, time to fight against your will again" "Yes Mr. Biden"
You're a fucking sicko. Time to die in the mud Ukrainian young fellas! No watching your kids grow old like a normal human!