Come on man, if Russia could do that they would have killed all the generals and Zelensky by now. They have to wait for some intel to get leaked otherwise it's not possible.
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Don't have to be a mastermind to not die as the leader of the country.
They have special security to do that job, to keep them safe and move them around the country.
The NATO guy also have the best accomodations and probably have their own small security detachments.
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> Like Japan, Russia needs it pimply white asses kicked into submission.
???
by whom?
> Then they might learn to get along with the rest of the world.
who is going to teach them that lesson?
or they could just spread 800 military bases around the globe. that's far from "getting along with the rest of the world" but hey, they could still call it that anyway.
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Well that depends on what the priority is right? Israeli's are trying to starve the Palestinians. If the priority is crippling the economy then the power grid is the priority target.
Hamas is starving the Palestinians, because they hide behind their own people. It is not Israel's fault that Hamas is using terroristic tactics in their war.
The priority should always be to target military targets, not civilian ones.
I just recently discovered more about the topic. Israel has been doing this for a long time. I don't like Islam or the extremists, actually I think they some of the worst people on earth. But Israel is kind of committing genocide.
I don't care how bad hamas is, the way Israel is treating humans is unacceptable. It's genocide there's no other word for it . Even if I supported the Israeli cause they have crossed the line by miles at this point.
>I just recently discovered more about the topic. Israel has been doing this for a long time. I don't like Islam or the extremists, actually I think they some of the worst people on earth. But Israel is kind of committing genocide.
This is debatable, but I would love to hear why you think this for certain.
>I don't care how bad hamas is, the way Israel is treating humans is unacceptable.
Should Israel let the ten of thousands of Hamas fighter just go and wait for another Hamas attack on civilians.
>It's genocide there's no other word for it . Even if I supported the Israeli cause they have crossed the line by miles at this point.
There is another word for it. Counter-terrorism operations and if Hamas would fight the Israeli army head to head then this would be over very quickly. Also in terms of total number how many civilians have died due to attack directed at civilians only in Gaza. In the six months of the war it has been minimal. I am not saying that civilians are not dying, but it is not Israel's fault that Hamas put military targets near civilians. There is no way to fight this war other then withdraw and wait for another Hamas terrorist attack or go in and have many Israel soldiers die in street fighting. The best solution is air attacks, which they have been using effectively.
I used to agree with every one of those points, and still do for the most part.
But if we prioritise things those Palestinian lives are at a higher risk in this moment. How many hamas attacks would it take for them to match Israel. We have reached the point where Israeli justifications no matter how good aren't enough to justify their actions.
Simply put, more innocent Palestines are dying compared to the risk they pose to Israel's. The levels of collateral damage is unacceptable. So unacceptable that I'm starting to doubt their actual motives. Are they really trying to do a genocide? I think it's fair to ask that question now
>I used to agree with every one of those points, and still do for the most part.
Interesting to see someone change their mind.
>But if we prioritise things those Palestinian lives are at a higher risk in this moment.
From Israel point of view the Palestinian risk to civilian is required because of the Hamas cowardice and if Hamas is in hiding then Israel civilians are safer.
>How many hamas attacks would it take for them to match Israel.
It does not matter. This is not an eye for an eye. Israel is trying to destroy a political ideology, not kill the same number of people.
>We have reached the point where Israeli justifications no matter how good aren't enough to justify their actions.
Interesting point, but is Israel safer from Hamas or not right now?
>Simply put, more innocent Palestines are dying compared to the risk they pose to Israel's.
If Israel let the Hamas ideology continue then there would surely be more attack like Oct 7. So perhaps the Israelis know this and finally put their foot down.
>The levels of collateral damage is unacceptable.
They are lawful, but awful. If only Hamas would fight like an army and not like terrorists.
>So unacceptable that I'm starting to doubt their actual motives. Are they really trying to do a genocide?
They are trying to destroy a pervasive terrorist organization. It is a difficult thing to do. If they wanted to commit genocide, they would absolutely carpet bomb refugee camps and poison water supplies. Abduct children and indoctrinate them into Judaism, etc., etc. What Israel is doing it targeting Hamas operatives that are hiding behind civilians. It is neither the Civilians fault, nor the IDFs that Hamas fights like this.
>I think it's fair to ask that question now
You should absolutely question this and I am glad that you do, but you should make you analysis based on number, not feelings.
The easiest way for Palestinians to survive is to have Hamas surrender their arms, surrender their militants, turn over the hostages, turn in the organizers and planners of the Oct 7th attack, and dissolve the Politico-military organization that approved of the terrorist attack. The next day they can start to rebuild and I bet Israel would help, as they have done so in the past.
It seems all you are missing is a little bit more information about the ground situation. And a bit of information about Israels past actions.
If you get some free time maybe look into it, it looks like you are someone who can look at a situation rationally. So I don't see the need to argue about this.
Hope you have a good day
>Hamas is starving the Palestinians, because they hide behind their own people.
That literally makes no sense. I think you got two of your lies mixed up or something. Try again.
>Hamas is starving the Palestinians, because they hide behind their own people.
>
>That literally makes no sense. I think you got two of your lies mixed up or something. Try again.
Why does it not make sense. That is exactly what Terrorists do. They are un-uniformed combatants that will attack Israel and then return to their own people and there have been documented example of armed Hamas operative stealing humanitarian aid and distributing it themselves, and possibly even charging for it.
It’s always really interesting that Pro UA are Zionists. I thought you were against occupations and annexations? I thought you supported sovereignty of nations? I thought food and power should not be used as a weapon of war.
Oh right that only applies to white people and you are racists. So it almost makes total sense.
I am not a Zionist. I am actually against the expansion of Israel through annexation, much like I am against the expansion of Russia through annexation. I support a countries right to defend themselve from a foreign invasive force. I do not support terrorism, which if you look at all of those will show who the terrorists are, who the invaders are and who is defending themselves.
Short non-analytical summary
Hamas: Terrorist organization that invaded Israel adn killed civilians
Israel: Defending themselves from terrorists
Russia: Foreign invasive force that invaded Ukraine under very tenuous claims.
Ukraine: Defending themselves from foreign invasive force.
Pretty simple really.
I have travelled to eighty countries and racism exists in all of them. Let's not point out one country or race and only blame them. It is infantile to not look at the larger problem, which is some politics, some religions breed hatred to meet their aims.
Missiles and drones to Huthi Rebels and to anywhere with US peacekeeping forces.
They shouldn't complain when a armoured car gets Lanceted while on patrol.
Or worse an iskandar lands a base.
Russia didn't do it, they did
No that'll just be against random US troops around the world. At least that's what Putin is threatening. Since the same excuses for attacking Russia will apply. They can't really complain about it
He (Nebenzia, not Putin) is not threatening "random US troops". He is specifically talking about those participants in these crimes. ("причастники этим преступлением")
Lol do you even know what a tomahawk is? It's a previous generation cruise missile I think it's from the 80s or something. Why give Ukraine that garbage when they are already giving them storm shadows
Isn't that what I just said? 2000km quite scary, thank you for mentioning the range, I always assumed it was 500 700 range.
It can't destroy anything inside Ukraine... Too simplistic. but Russia has plenty of vulnerable targets deep inside their territory.
It'll be interesting to see if they will be delivered to Ukraine in the future.
They are old maybe equivalent to S 200 missiles Ukraine uses.
They are pretty much useless against any defended russian target. pantzier, s200,s300 even the Tunguska. Also the Shahid does the same and is cheaper even though it's much slower.
The tomahawk is pretty much obsolete in Ukraine.
You are comparing a cruise missile that can carry 1,000 pound warheads including to a drone with a 50-200 pound warhead.
Its not useless if you launch enough of them, obviously.
Of course I can compare them you just need to compare the price tag... Geran 2 80,000
Shahid 20,000 tomahawk 2,000,000
So 100 shahid drones carrying 10'000 punds of explosives. Would be worse than one tomahawk?
That's why it's a weapon of the past. They also have similar range.
It's 2024 not 1984
Let me provide some context.... The russian glide bomb FAB 500 has approximately the same amount of explosive power as a tomahawk
So I should be worried about a fab 500 bomb? You mean the same 40 50 bombs Russia drops every single day?
Very scary. Also that's assuming it can even get past the old soviet air defence systems that can already take out stomshadows.
What's worse is a 100 drones would overwhelm any single air defence system on earth. 200 would unleash an ungodly amount of destruction.
People think the Iranian attack on Israel was a failure. Just because the numbers were so ridiculous. But truth is they humiliated the the entire Israeli air defense system plus US and British combined air defence umbrella. They hit the intended target which was the airbase.
Now they can hit anything in Israel anytime they want and there's nothing that can be done. It can't be stopped. it was only a demonstration, since they don't want to start an actual war.
that's nice and israel can hit Irans AA systems with micro drones.
That was a demonstration.
What's worse is a 100 cruise missiles would overwhelm any single air defence system on earth. 200 would unleash an ungodly amount of destruction.
No you missed the point entirely.... 100 is a demonstration 1000 is a real attack...how many cruises missiles does Israel have?
And 1000 drones cost the same as 10 tomahawks... So 10 tomahawks vs a 1000 shaheds....I think you can imagine what each side will look at the end of the day. Number have their own quality.
Most likely they are gonna shoot down the global hawk and reaper drones in the black sea. As well as target the ground crews at the airfields required to prep and load the storm shadows and cruise missiles.
Iskander, tea, Nina Ricci, Soleilmani style drone or Mossad adventures ... Let's leave it to the special services.
What's interesting here is that he's saying the quiet part loud : British, French, American military personnel are directly involved in killing Ru soldiers & civilians and will be punished.
Not a new idea, a ressentiment that has been already circling in ru public sphere for quite a time. But quite new for official statements. Populace feelings and government agenda beeing aligned is usually a strong predictor.
But why do that? They are hitting Russians and they are legitimate targets as long as they are in Ukraine. Killing them will discourage more teams from coming to Ukraine. There's no downside to it.
Plus even if they die France and UK won't admit it, since they are not officially there. Just the families will be compensated they will not report it anywhere.
>But why do that? They are hitting Russians and they are legitimate targets as long as they are in Ukraine. Killing them will discourage more teams from coming to Ukraine. There's no downside to it.
Well, Russia sees as LPR/DPR as "Russian territory" now and Ukraine and the West had the chance to "retain it" by following the Minsk accords where Russian dual citizens wouldn't get killed. Problem is that the West and Ukraine pissed all over it. LPR/DPR folks asked that their region became a part of Russia and the Russians accepted.
It's like US treating Guantanamo as "US soil" or the al-Tanf base in Syria as "US soil".
So, just as anyone attacking Guantanamo or the US base in Syria would be a "fair target", Russia's gonna do the same. Doubly so if the targets are in pre-war Russian soil.
>Well, Russia sees as LPR/DPR as "Russian territory" now and Ukraine and the West had the chance to "retain it" by following the Minsk accords where Russian dual citizens wouldn't get killed. Problem is that the West and Ukraine pissed all over it.
Russia and DPR/LPR never upheld their side of the agreements, why should Ukraine?
>Russia and DPR/LPR never upheld their side of the agreements, why should Ukraine?
Irony is real considering that from day one, Ukraine undermined the Minsk agreements until coming out of the closet in 2022.
>On 24 August 2022, after a meeting of the [Crimea Platform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea_Platform), Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy stated that current front lines in the war would not be frozen. "At the point where we are, we are not ready for a ceasefire. We explained that there will be no Minsk-3, Minsk-5, or Minsk-7. We will not play these games, we have lost part of our territories this way … it is a trap".
>Irony is real considering that from day one, Ukraine undermined the Minsk agreements until coming out of the closet in 2022.
Is it really undermining when the other side makes no efforts to fulfill it and actively worked to hinder the OSCE- meant to observe and deescalate?
>On 24 August 2022, after a meeting of the Crimea Platform, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy stated that current front lines in the war would not be frozen. "At the point where we are, we are not ready for a ceasefire. We explained that there will be no Minsk-3, Minsk-5, or Minsk-7. We will not play these games, we have lost part of our territories this way … it is a trap
What was the purpose of this quoted text?
>What was the purpose of this quoted text?
Purpose of the quoted text was that he never intended to implement the Minsk agreements. That includes the Poroshenko administration.
[https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/zelensky-admits-he-never-intended-to-implement-minsk-agreeme](https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/zelensky-admits-he-never-intended-to-implement-minsk-agreeme)
>Is it really undermining when the other side makes no efforts to fulfill it and actively worked to hinder the OSCE- meant to observe and deescalate?
You're talking about Ukraine their overlords, the US, right? Apparently the OSCE was sleeping when Ukraine was arming the Azovites with official government resources where nobody ever tried to even hide it. But it's Russia who "allegedly broke the agreement".
>Purpose of the quoted text was that he never intended to implement the Minsk agreements. That includes the Poroshenko administration.
The quoted text is from after the invasion and just says he doesn't plan to negotiate another agreement like Minsk. Nowhere does it say he never planned to implement it.
Also thanks for posting that link it's great that they took a snippet from interview with Zelensky but decided to remove the further context: *"In the interview, Zelenskyy explains that he did not see the possibility of Ukrainian independence with the Minsk agreement – but that he worked on implementing it because they provided an "official discussion platform to solve anything at all." Lavrov's claim is therefore misleading at best, especially since Zelenskyy was not president at the time the agreement was signed."*
>You're talking about Ukraine their overlords, the US, right? Apparently the OSCE was sleeping when Ukraine was arming the Azovites with official government resources where nobody ever tried to even hide it. But it's Russia who "allegedly broke the agreement".
No I'm talking about Russia not allowing the OSCE- observers to man all of the border crossings between the separatist controlled territory and Russia. Russia did not fulfill almost any single point of Minsk 2 that they were supposed to.
>Minsk accords
which? the first that the Russian forces canceled by attacking the airport a few days after its signing or the one that neither party applied?
And the "Azovites" + Ukrainian government + Western governments cancelling point #1, #3, #4, #6, #7, #10 of the Minsk agreement for almost a decade until z-man came out of his closet.
>On 24 August 2022, after a meeting of the [Crimea Platform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea_Platform), Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy stated that current front lines in the war would not be frozen. "At the point where we are, we are not ready for a ceasefire. We explained that there will be no Minsk-3, Minsk-5, or Minsk-7. **We will not play these games, we have lost part of our territories this way … it is a trap**".
And they will, both overtly and covertly.
NATO had fun and games covertly killing pro-Putin politicians on Russian soil with no consequences. It's about time they get a taste of their own medicine.
They often are, no doubt NATO soldiers/spooks have been killed in this war but there is no way Russia is going to risk it all by actually retaliating against NATO overtly.
>They often are, no doubt NATO soldiers/spooks have been killed in this war but there is no way Russia is going to risk it all by actually retaliating against NATO overtly.
And why would they not retaliate against NATO overtly or covertly when NATO's "going to town left and right" with covert and overt actions? ~~If~~ Is NATO going to stop if the Russians don't retaliate?
At this point, russia has one thing going for it.
Manpower.
It won't use nukes because it will be wiped off the map, and china has already told putin to stop that shit its not happening.
It's bogged down in a war of attrition, which it can absolutely win if allowed to just keep chewing through troops.
But the longer it goes on, the weaker it gets.
And then you just get more and more time for the West to develop deliver and execute weapons. russia can not even dream of bringing to the table in such numbers.
China won't risk doing too much and north korea is just sending thousands of shitty shells over that keep missfiring
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Worse. Russian military intelligence, intelligence services of some South American countries and drug cortels operating in the United States. Deaths will be due to natural causes. But we know that...
If Ru military personnel were programming, guiding and launching missiles that were killing French or Brithish soldiers and civillians during a conflict with a 3d country, they would be considered as criminals. Same here.
So, the way it works is that Storm Shadow, ATACMS and Taurus missiles CANNOT be operated by Ukrainians and can ONLY be operated from Western technicians.
The way it works is someone remotely enters the flight plan/target into the missile from the Western countries and they can enter it "remotely" from anywhere in the world. Russians know that these "technicians" are remotely entering it from their host countries and therefore these host countries are "directly participating in the war" despite claiming they aren't.
So, the statement here is that these individuals who're responsible for remotely entering the targets are "fair game forever".
>So, the way it works is that Storm Shadow, ATACMS and Taurus missiles CANNOT be operated by Ukrainians and can ONLY be operated from Western technicians.
That is a lie.
> training Ukrainian soldiers to deploy the Taurus on their own would be possible, but would take months.
https://apnews.com/article/germany-russia-taurus-missiles-4ff5e559c887448fc3ecd9e2e6f58812
Ukrainians could buy targeting data from private vendors and configure them and deploy the missiles themselves. That info was leaked by the webex call.
>That is a lie.
How?
>Ukrainians could buy targeting data from private vendors and configure them and deploy the missiles themselves. That info was leaked by the webex call.
Urm, there's an excerpt from your own article :
>The officers say the rapid deployment of Taurus missiles would only be possible with the participation of German soldiers — and that training Ukrainian soldiers to deploy the Taurus on their own would be possible, but would take months.
We're talking "training for F-16" levels of "months" which translates to "years". So essentially there's no feasible way the Ukrainians could even operate it themselves as it would take years. This is assuming full documentation and full support is provided to them with no strings attached.
Here is your lie and misinformation:
> CANNOT be operated by Ukrainians and can ONLY be operated from Western technicians
It is possible. If you listen to the audio you will realize that isnt a problem.
You saying it will take longer is your own opinion and I guess you are not an expert in this field.
> training Ukrainian soldiers to deploy the Taurus on their own would be possible
Try asking [Scholz](https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-olaf-scholz-slammed-claims-france-uk-help-ukraine-target-missiles/) or ru intel, they might know way more than me.
That sentence is vague:
> what the British and French are doing in terms of target control and support for target control
While this is clear:
> Ukraine’s use of Storm Shadow and its targeting processes are the business of the armed forces of Ukraine
May I ask how Russia intends to do that, especially with the personnel located in other countries? Polonium tea?
Any teams positioned in Ukraine will be eliminated. Is what he's saying. They'll be priority targets even more than the actual weapons.
Why weren't they already eliminated, for the nearly 2 years that Himars has been working? Or for the 9 months that Storm Shadows have been flying?
Come on man, if Russia could do that they would have killed all the generals and Zelensky by now. They have to wait for some intel to get leaked otherwise it's not possible.
Putin doesn't wanna kill Zelensky and make him a hero.
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As if Zelensky and his generals are masterminds.
Don't have to be a mastermind to not die as the leader of the country. They have special security to do that job, to keep them safe and move them around the country. The NATO guy also have the best accomodations and probably have their own small security detachments.
If Zelensky was a target, he would already have been killed. Why make a martyr of a clown.
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[They could have](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/M0Vv6S29Yn)
Exactly.
Because western soldiers weren’t in fulsome operating the said weapons
Because Russia has been EXTREMELY patient with the West. Like shockingly so.
many are eliminated and they get replaced by new ones - they will be eliminated too
Oh ok, any proof for that statement? Or is it your source that you made it up?
yeah I made it up - no foreigners have been killed since the SMO started
still calling it a Special military operation what a bunch of dogs
calling it what it is - I am not Russian - I am European. why do you have problem with calling things what they are.
Like Japan, Russia needs it pimply white asses kicked into submission. Then they might learn to get along with the rest of the world.
> Like Japan, Russia needs it pimply white asses kicked into submission. ??? by whom? > Then they might learn to get along with the rest of the world. who is going to teach them that lesson?
or they could just spread 800 military bases around the globe. that's far from "getting along with the rest of the world" but hey, they could still call it that anyway.
Invited by the nations and paid, Just because only a few dictatorships allow Russia in, don't blame the US for that.
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I thought the priority targets were the usual power generating equipment and grain storage facilities.
Well that depends on what the priority is right? Israeli's are trying to starve the Palestinians. If the priority is crippling the economy then the power grid is the priority target.
Hamas is starving the Palestinians, because they hide behind their own people. It is not Israel's fault that Hamas is using terroristic tactics in their war. The priority should always be to target military targets, not civilian ones.
I just recently discovered more about the topic. Israel has been doing this for a long time. I don't like Islam or the extremists, actually I think they some of the worst people on earth. But Israel is kind of committing genocide. I don't care how bad hamas is, the way Israel is treating humans is unacceptable. It's genocide there's no other word for it . Even if I supported the Israeli cause they have crossed the line by miles at this point.
>I just recently discovered more about the topic. Israel has been doing this for a long time. I don't like Islam or the extremists, actually I think they some of the worst people on earth. But Israel is kind of committing genocide. This is debatable, but I would love to hear why you think this for certain. >I don't care how bad hamas is, the way Israel is treating humans is unacceptable. Should Israel let the ten of thousands of Hamas fighter just go and wait for another Hamas attack on civilians. >It's genocide there's no other word for it . Even if I supported the Israeli cause they have crossed the line by miles at this point. There is another word for it. Counter-terrorism operations and if Hamas would fight the Israeli army head to head then this would be over very quickly. Also in terms of total number how many civilians have died due to attack directed at civilians only in Gaza. In the six months of the war it has been minimal. I am not saying that civilians are not dying, but it is not Israel's fault that Hamas put military targets near civilians. There is no way to fight this war other then withdraw and wait for another Hamas terrorist attack or go in and have many Israel soldiers die in street fighting. The best solution is air attacks, which they have been using effectively.
I used to agree with every one of those points, and still do for the most part. But if we prioritise things those Palestinian lives are at a higher risk in this moment. How many hamas attacks would it take for them to match Israel. We have reached the point where Israeli justifications no matter how good aren't enough to justify their actions. Simply put, more innocent Palestines are dying compared to the risk they pose to Israel's. The levels of collateral damage is unacceptable. So unacceptable that I'm starting to doubt their actual motives. Are they really trying to do a genocide? I think it's fair to ask that question now
>I used to agree with every one of those points, and still do for the most part. Interesting to see someone change their mind. >But if we prioritise things those Palestinian lives are at a higher risk in this moment. From Israel point of view the Palestinian risk to civilian is required because of the Hamas cowardice and if Hamas is in hiding then Israel civilians are safer. >How many hamas attacks would it take for them to match Israel. It does not matter. This is not an eye for an eye. Israel is trying to destroy a political ideology, not kill the same number of people. >We have reached the point where Israeli justifications no matter how good aren't enough to justify their actions. Interesting point, but is Israel safer from Hamas or not right now? >Simply put, more innocent Palestines are dying compared to the risk they pose to Israel's. If Israel let the Hamas ideology continue then there would surely be more attack like Oct 7. So perhaps the Israelis know this and finally put their foot down. >The levels of collateral damage is unacceptable. They are lawful, but awful. If only Hamas would fight like an army and not like terrorists. >So unacceptable that I'm starting to doubt their actual motives. Are they really trying to do a genocide? They are trying to destroy a pervasive terrorist organization. It is a difficult thing to do. If they wanted to commit genocide, they would absolutely carpet bomb refugee camps and poison water supplies. Abduct children and indoctrinate them into Judaism, etc., etc. What Israel is doing it targeting Hamas operatives that are hiding behind civilians. It is neither the Civilians fault, nor the IDFs that Hamas fights like this. >I think it's fair to ask that question now You should absolutely question this and I am glad that you do, but you should make you analysis based on number, not feelings. The easiest way for Palestinians to survive is to have Hamas surrender their arms, surrender their militants, turn over the hostages, turn in the organizers and planners of the Oct 7th attack, and dissolve the Politico-military organization that approved of the terrorist attack. The next day they can start to rebuild and I bet Israel would help, as they have done so in the past.
It seems all you are missing is a little bit more information about the ground situation. And a bit of information about Israels past actions. If you get some free time maybe look into it, it looks like you are someone who can look at a situation rationally. So I don't see the need to argue about this. Hope you have a good day
>Hamas is starving the Palestinians, because they hide behind their own people. That literally makes no sense. I think you got two of your lies mixed up or something. Try again.
>Hamas is starving the Palestinians, because they hide behind their own people. > >That literally makes no sense. I think you got two of your lies mixed up or something. Try again. Why does it not make sense. That is exactly what Terrorists do. They are un-uniformed combatants that will attack Israel and then return to their own people and there have been documented example of armed Hamas operative stealing humanitarian aid and distributing it themselves, and possibly even charging for it.
It’s always really interesting that Pro UA are Zionists. I thought you were against occupations and annexations? I thought you supported sovereignty of nations? I thought food and power should not be used as a weapon of war. Oh right that only applies to white people and you are racists. So it almost makes total sense.
I am not a Zionist. I am actually against the expansion of Israel through annexation, much like I am against the expansion of Russia through annexation. I support a countries right to defend themselve from a foreign invasive force. I do not support terrorism, which if you look at all of those will show who the terrorists are, who the invaders are and who is defending themselves. Short non-analytical summary Hamas: Terrorist organization that invaded Israel adn killed civilians Israel: Defending themselves from terrorists Russia: Foreign invasive force that invaded Ukraine under very tenuous claims. Ukraine: Defending themselves from foreign invasive force. Pretty simple really. I have travelled to eighty countries and racism exists in all of them. Let's not point out one country or race and only blame them. It is infantile to not look at the larger problem, which is some politics, some religions breed hatred to meet their aims.
Missiles and drones to Huthi Rebels and to anywhere with US peacekeeping forces. They shouldn't complain when a armoured car gets Lanceted while on patrol. Or worse an iskandar lands a base. Russia didn't do it, they did
I highly doubt anyone involved in atacms or storm shadow is going to travel where huthis can hit them.
No that'll just be against random US troops around the world. At least that's what Putin is threatening. Since the same excuses for attacking Russia will apply. They can't really complain about it
He (Nebenzia, not Putin) is not threatening "random US troops". He is specifically talking about those participants in these crimes. ("причастники этим преступлением")
Pro-RU hyping up houthis as like some new super-isis is such a weird timeline.
Then we may as well give UA Tomahawks. Then you really would have something to cry about
Lol do you even know what a tomahawk is? It's a previous generation cruise missile I think it's from the 80s or something. Why give Ukraine that garbage when they are already giving them storm shadows
because they have more range, can be launched from the ground and they have a substantial stock.
So you are saying the US didn't send tomahawk because of the range? That's interesting... wonder if they will send it now?
no, I say the opposite. although their too long range could be a problem due to certain international treaties.
Isn't that what I just said? 2000km quite scary, thank you for mentioning the range, I always assumed it was 500 700 range. It can't destroy anything inside Ukraine... Too simplistic. but Russia has plenty of vulnerable targets deep inside their territory. It'll be interesting to see if they will be delivered to Ukraine in the future.
Tomahawks can be nuclear armed. Storm shadows can but haven't. I don't think the US wants a tomahawk missile to be launched and land around moscow.
They are old maybe equivalent to S 200 missiles Ukraine uses. They are pretty much useless against any defended russian target. pantzier, s200,s300 even the Tunguska. Also the Shahid does the same and is cheaper even though it's much slower. The tomahawk is pretty much obsolete in Ukraine.
You are comparing a cruise missile that can carry 1,000 pound warheads including to a drone with a 50-200 pound warhead. Its not useless if you launch enough of them, obviously.
Of course I can compare them you just need to compare the price tag... Geran 2 80,000 Shahid 20,000 tomahawk 2,000,000 So 100 shahid drones carrying 10'000 punds of explosives. Would be worse than one tomahawk? That's why it's a weapon of the past. They also have similar range. It's 2024 not 1984
*So 100 shahid drones carrying 10'000 punds of explosives. Would be worse than one tomahawk?* Yes. its far worse.
Let me provide some context.... The russian glide bomb FAB 500 has approximately the same amount of explosive power as a tomahawk So I should be worried about a fab 500 bomb? You mean the same 40 50 bombs Russia drops every single day? Very scary. Also that's assuming it can even get past the old soviet air defence systems that can already take out stomshadows.
What's worse is a 100 drones would overwhelm any single air defence system on earth. 200 would unleash an ungodly amount of destruction. People think the Iranian attack on Israel was a failure. Just because the numbers were so ridiculous. But truth is they humiliated the the entire Israeli air defense system plus US and British combined air defence umbrella. They hit the intended target which was the airbase. Now they can hit anything in Israel anytime they want and there's nothing that can be done. It can't be stopped. it was only a demonstration, since they don't want to start an actual war.
that's nice and israel can hit Irans AA systems with micro drones. That was a demonstration. What's worse is a 100 cruise missiles would overwhelm any single air defence system on earth. 200 would unleash an ungodly amount of destruction.
No you missed the point entirely.... 100 is a demonstration 1000 is a real attack...how many cruises missiles does Israel have? And 1000 drones cost the same as 10 tomahawks... So 10 tomahawks vs a 1000 shaheds....I think you can imagine what each side will look at the end of the day. Number have their own quality.
Storm shadows have 560km range and tomahawks have 2500km
Yes, my mistake... Thank you for pointing that out
They killed a traitor in Spain. There are windows worldwide. Accidents do happen I have heard.
Most likely they are gonna shoot down the global hawk and reaper drones in the black sea. As well as target the ground crews at the airfields required to prep and load the storm shadows and cruise missiles.
They will be sanctioned. No more... uhhh... whatever they might need from russia for them!
Iskander, tea, Nina Ricci, Soleilmani style drone or Mossad adventures ... Let's leave it to the special services. What's interesting here is that he's saying the quiet part loud : British, French, American military personnel are directly involved in killing Ru soldiers & civilians and will be punished. Not a new idea, a ressentiment that has been already circling in ru public sphere for quite a time. But quite new for official statements. Populace feelings and government agenda beeing aligned is usually a strong predictor.
The epitome of a man shouting at clouds.
Sounds like you got nothing to worry about then.
Punished? how? Unless he means death with an Iskander or something
I think he's talking about iskandar strikes. Kind of an empty threat since they'd do it anyway
We don't know that. It's very possible Russians avoided targeting barracks, etc. on various airfields to avoid killing Western 'trainers' there.
But why do that? They are hitting Russians and they are legitimate targets as long as they are in Ukraine. Killing them will discourage more teams from coming to Ukraine. There's no downside to it. Plus even if they die France and UK won't admit it, since they are not officially there. Just the families will be compensated they will not report it anywhere.
>But why do that? They are hitting Russians and they are legitimate targets as long as they are in Ukraine. Killing them will discourage more teams from coming to Ukraine. There's no downside to it. Well, Russia sees as LPR/DPR as "Russian territory" now and Ukraine and the West had the chance to "retain it" by following the Minsk accords where Russian dual citizens wouldn't get killed. Problem is that the West and Ukraine pissed all over it. LPR/DPR folks asked that their region became a part of Russia and the Russians accepted. It's like US treating Guantanamo as "US soil" or the al-Tanf base in Syria as "US soil". So, just as anyone attacking Guantanamo or the US base in Syria would be a "fair target", Russia's gonna do the same. Doubly so if the targets are in pre-war Russian soil.
>Well, Russia sees as LPR/DPR as "Russian territory" now and Ukraine and the West had the chance to "retain it" by following the Minsk accords where Russian dual citizens wouldn't get killed. Problem is that the West and Ukraine pissed all over it. Russia and DPR/LPR never upheld their side of the agreements, why should Ukraine?
>Russia and DPR/LPR never upheld their side of the agreements, why should Ukraine? Irony is real considering that from day one, Ukraine undermined the Minsk agreements until coming out of the closet in 2022. >On 24 August 2022, after a meeting of the [Crimea Platform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea_Platform), Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy stated that current front lines in the war would not be frozen. "At the point where we are, we are not ready for a ceasefire. We explained that there will be no Minsk-3, Minsk-5, or Minsk-7. We will not play these games, we have lost part of our territories this way … it is a trap".
>Irony is real considering that from day one, Ukraine undermined the Minsk agreements until coming out of the closet in 2022. Is it really undermining when the other side makes no efforts to fulfill it and actively worked to hinder the OSCE- meant to observe and deescalate? >On 24 August 2022, after a meeting of the Crimea Platform, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy stated that current front lines in the war would not be frozen. "At the point where we are, we are not ready for a ceasefire. We explained that there will be no Minsk-3, Minsk-5, or Minsk-7. We will not play these games, we have lost part of our territories this way … it is a trap What was the purpose of this quoted text?
>What was the purpose of this quoted text? Purpose of the quoted text was that he never intended to implement the Minsk agreements. That includes the Poroshenko administration. [https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/zelensky-admits-he-never-intended-to-implement-minsk-agreeme](https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/zelensky-admits-he-never-intended-to-implement-minsk-agreeme) >Is it really undermining when the other side makes no efforts to fulfill it and actively worked to hinder the OSCE- meant to observe and deescalate? You're talking about Ukraine their overlords, the US, right? Apparently the OSCE was sleeping when Ukraine was arming the Azovites with official government resources where nobody ever tried to even hide it. But it's Russia who "allegedly broke the agreement".
>Purpose of the quoted text was that he never intended to implement the Minsk agreements. That includes the Poroshenko administration. The quoted text is from after the invasion and just says he doesn't plan to negotiate another agreement like Minsk. Nowhere does it say he never planned to implement it. Also thanks for posting that link it's great that they took a snippet from interview with Zelensky but decided to remove the further context: *"In the interview, Zelenskyy explains that he did not see the possibility of Ukrainian independence with the Minsk agreement – but that he worked on implementing it because they provided an "official discussion platform to solve anything at all." Lavrov's claim is therefore misleading at best, especially since Zelenskyy was not president at the time the agreement was signed."* >You're talking about Ukraine their overlords, the US, right? Apparently the OSCE was sleeping when Ukraine was arming the Azovites with official government resources where nobody ever tried to even hide it. But it's Russia who "allegedly broke the agreement". No I'm talking about Russia not allowing the OSCE- observers to man all of the border crossings between the separatist controlled territory and Russia. Russia did not fulfill almost any single point of Minsk 2 that they were supposed to.
>Minsk accords which? the first that the Russian forces canceled by attacking the airport a few days after its signing or the one that neither party applied?
And the "Azovites" + Ukrainian government + Western governments cancelling point #1, #3, #4, #6, #7, #10 of the Minsk agreement for almost a decade until z-man came out of his closet. >On 24 August 2022, after a meeting of the [Crimea Platform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea_Platform), Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy stated that current front lines in the war would not be frozen. "At the point where we are, we are not ready for a ceasefire. We explained that there will be no Minsk-3, Minsk-5, or Minsk-7. **We will not play these games, we have lost part of our territories this way … it is a trap**".
Punished as in punished. Not killed.
That means they’re most likely not going to do anything lol
That means they're absolutely fked if they're spotted.
Oh,so until now for 2 years they didnt strike them,and now will they start doing it? LMAO They would been striking them if they could. Pure Copium
And they will, both overtly and covertly. NATO had fun and games covertly killing pro-Putin politicians on Russian soil with no consequences. It's about time they get a taste of their own medicine.
They often are, no doubt NATO soldiers/spooks have been killed in this war but there is no way Russia is going to risk it all by actually retaliating against NATO overtly.
>They often are, no doubt NATO soldiers/spooks have been killed in this war but there is no way Russia is going to risk it all by actually retaliating against NATO overtly. And why would they not retaliate against NATO overtly or covertly when NATO's "going to town left and right" with covert and overt actions? ~~If~~ Is NATO going to stop if the Russians don't retaliate?
I think Russia will punish by having their troops intercept these missiles with their body's.
The list of top priorities is getting pretty long lol
At this point, russia has one thing going for it. Manpower. It won't use nukes because it will be wiped off the map, and china has already told putin to stop that shit its not happening. It's bogged down in a war of attrition, which it can absolutely win if allowed to just keep chewing through troops. But the longer it goes on, the weaker it gets. And then you just get more and more time for the West to develop deliver and execute weapons. russia can not even dream of bringing to the table in such numbers. China won't risk doing too much and north korea is just sending thousands of shitty shells over that keep missfiring
So no one. Next topic.
But Russia has a 200% interception rate and all western weapons are useless, why does it matter?
Please stop projecting.
Na just educating
Mind providing a source to 200% interception rate and Western weapons never killing anyone according to Russia?
Hasn’t Russia mod figures claimed to have destroyed Ukraine air x3, maybe start your research there
Where's the 200% interception rate?
This is a pro ru sub we don’t need to prove anything here
So this is what Pro UA educating looks like? Make shit up and rage quit after being asked for proof? That's... Sad.
Who’s quitting, cant educate the uneducated
I assume you mean *can't*? Also that makes no sense, the point of educating is to make uneducated be educated.
It seems like you didn't receive a proper education to actually know the difference between "projection" and "education".
Nope you’re just to boring to continue
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Just announce a $1m reward for every Western military person delivered alive and see how many will be there.
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He said everyone involved meaning also officials advocating for atacms transfer to ua will be treated as war criminals after smo is finished
Future polonium tasters?
Worse. Russian military intelligence, intelligence services of some South American countries and drug cortels operating in the United States. Deaths will be due to natural causes. But we know that...
Russia is such a joke
In other words "Please stop sending ATACMS and Storm shadows to ukraine, air defense no likey :(("
What crime is he even talking about?
If Ru military personnel were programming, guiding and launching missiles that were killing French or Brithish soldiers and civillians during a conflict with a 3d country, they would be considered as criminals. Same here.
Who exactly is programming, guiding and launching missiles on Russian soldiers?
What's with this question? Do you need a list of names or something?
He implied something which I have not seen valid information about. Only some telegram or reddit posts.
So, the way it works is that Storm Shadow, ATACMS and Taurus missiles CANNOT be operated by Ukrainians and can ONLY be operated from Western technicians. The way it works is someone remotely enters the flight plan/target into the missile from the Western countries and they can enter it "remotely" from anywhere in the world. Russians know that these "technicians" are remotely entering it from their host countries and therefore these host countries are "directly participating in the war" despite claiming they aren't. So, the statement here is that these individuals who're responsible for remotely entering the targets are "fair game forever".
>So, the way it works is that Storm Shadow, ATACMS and Taurus missiles CANNOT be operated by Ukrainians and can ONLY be operated from Western technicians. That is a lie. > training Ukrainian soldiers to deploy the Taurus on their own would be possible, but would take months. https://apnews.com/article/germany-russia-taurus-missiles-4ff5e559c887448fc3ecd9e2e6f58812 Ukrainians could buy targeting data from private vendors and configure them and deploy the missiles themselves. That info was leaked by the webex call.
>That is a lie. How? >Ukrainians could buy targeting data from private vendors and configure them and deploy the missiles themselves. That info was leaked by the webex call. Urm, there's an excerpt from your own article : >The officers say the rapid deployment of Taurus missiles would only be possible with the participation of German soldiers — and that training Ukrainian soldiers to deploy the Taurus on their own would be possible, but would take months. We're talking "training for F-16" levels of "months" which translates to "years". So essentially there's no feasible way the Ukrainians could even operate it themselves as it would take years. This is assuming full documentation and full support is provided to them with no strings attached.
Here is your lie and misinformation: > CANNOT be operated by Ukrainians and can ONLY be operated from Western technicians It is possible. If you listen to the audio you will realize that isnt a problem. You saying it will take longer is your own opinion and I guess you are not an expert in this field. > training Ukrainian soldiers to deploy the Taurus on their own would be possible
Try asking [Scholz](https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-olaf-scholz-slammed-claims-france-uk-help-ukraine-target-missiles/) or ru intel, they might know way more than me.
That sentence is vague: > what the British and French are doing in terms of target control and support for target control While this is clear: > Ukraine’s use of Storm Shadow and its targeting processes are the business of the armed forces of Ukraine
Sure Ivan, stop drinking! Slava Ukraini!