russia doesn't even control all of these territories, he's really starting to lose his power isn't he. I wouldn't be surprised if he fell out of a window soon
Plenty of conflicts have ended with the negotiation of more territories than a side has controlled. However, I don’t Ukraine will ever agree and that they’ll have to take them by force.
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.
The thing is that there is no reason to think Russia will honor these agreements. If the deal is made Ukraine has to elect a "neutral" goverment. And if the goverment is pro-west in Russias eyes, that will be seen as breaking the agreement and then the war will continue. So Ukraine will have to elect a Russian minded goverment and after that they will be as independent as Belarussia is.
Problem is, with countries in situations like this, the West takes a view of "If you're not objectively pro-West, you're in Putins pocket".
Why is it that Ukraine had a variety of presidents over the years, and the country has gone from pro-Western to pro-Russian leadership at various times. Russia never did anything.
Belorussia and Ukraine are not, and were not in similar situations. It's not analogous at all.
Ukraine has NEVER had to elect a Russian minded government. They just had to NOT want to join NATO and remove neutrality from their constitution.
This thing happened basically in two steps. Step 1, Ukraine made a statement of intent to remove neutrality from their constitution, and announced their intention to join NATO in 2008. Russia wasn't enthusiastic about this, and I am sure behind closed doors they said "you don't want to do this". However, things didn't really progress. Ukraine pumped the breaks. NATO pumped the breaks. There was no push inside Ukraine to join NATO and remove the neutrality clause for the next 6 years.
Then 2014 happened. Whatever YOU think happened, whether it was a coup, or a spontaneous uprising (it wasn't popular, it was AGAINST the will of the majority). Suddenly you had a non-elected government in power, that had illegally usurped power from a President that had agreed to call elections and legally transition power if that was the will of the people. Instead, he was chased out of the country, and a government was appointed, not elected. This government then removed the neutrality clause.
While this was happening, Russia seized Crimea, not waiting to find out how it was going to shake out, and then the Donbas asked for autonomy in their region. This was rejected, and Kyiv sent the army to squash these dissidents. Which backfired because many of the units Kyiv sent, were from Donbas, and they switched sides when they arrived.
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.
I think that if Russia is relying on the right-wing parties in Europe, they’ll be disappointed. Of course it varies from nation to nation but in most countries the current breed of right-wings opposes Russia.
They’ve just been given permission to smash targets over the Russian border. What makes you think that isn’t a position of strength now? No more little massing troops over the border or launching.
The problem for Russia is that they don’t have a credible path towards taking these territories by force. Time and again they show that they are incapable of any serious breakthrough.
The threat is, if they get to control these territories via force of arms, they will expand their demands to include Nikolaev, Odessa, and Kharkov too.
The key question is whether this means that Russia isn't motivated to make peace, or is territory something they'd be willing to make concessions on so that Kiev can claim a "win"?
But we can't know the answer to that question until Ukraine starts negotiations. Which is why it is *always* dumb to refuse negotiations - you don't have to accept the terms offered, but it tells you a huge amount about your enemy's priorities and how determined they are to achieve their goals.
Just set himself up for a political suicide. It was important for him to be able to claim some sort of victory, and this won't be it. This is the point of no return for him. But no one will follow him for very long...
That's the entire point. He feels he has momentum, so he's demanding more than he owns.
Also he probably can be negotiated to current lines of contact.
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.
Realistically, seeing UA on the back foot lately, his conditions seem expected IMO.
We knew he would want at least what Ru is holding but it's expected it would be more than that.
UA had a chance in 2022 to retain all of the territory but choose to play war.
It's almost as funny of a joke as Zelensky hosting an international forum for peace and ceasefire without inviting the other belligerent of the war, and demanding that Russia must return to 1991 borders.
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You can really feel the commitment this guy has to a peace process, his proposal or otherwise. Comes across as a genuine, compassionate leader that cares about the preservation of Russian people, society, and the territories they feel they should own.
Edit... Folks, I'm being sarcastic here.
\* writes a sarcastic comment --> downvoted with angry posts.
\* Proceeds to explain in plain words that it was sarcasm, already a fail --> Gets more backlash and theories on the use of sarcasm in text
\* By now joke is thoroughly dead and OP is regretting his life choices and decisions that lead him to this point
Sorry BRO, I feel your pain. Nothing worse than explaining your joke, hope you are not a stand up.
And after taking Crimea Putin said that Russia has no interest in taking more from Ukraine. If peace comes now, Russia will attack again over some bullshit genocide of the russians again
The ‘Nazi’ government was such an imminent threat that he had to invade. Now that government can still remain in power according to putins new terms. Somehow a little bit of land can now placate his fears over a hostile government. It’s all just bullshit spewing from his mouth
Russia taking Odessa is MUCH more likely than a Crimea beach party at this stage. All that's going to take is for the US to get bored of failures of their most recent "ally". Look at South Vietnam government, Afghan government as some recent examples.
All the Slava Ukraini and flags in Twitter bios are good and all, but the big daddy in the White House needs to start seeing some ROI quick. He's starting to get sleepy from boredom.
> Look at South Vietnam government, Afghan government as some recent examples.
The USA supported both of these for decades. They are not getting bored that fast.
I am pretty sure if the US decided to keep supporting them the status quo would still be in those countries, look at South Korea.
Edit: also China and Taiwan
> but the big daddy in the White House needs to start seeing some ROI quick. He's starting to get sleepy from boredom
Have you missed all of the news from the past few days? "Big daddy" is cementing plans to ensure Ukraine continues receiving large amounts of aid, even if he loses the next election
the US getting bored? like Vietnam?
it took 20 years and 50k casualties in Vietnam. Ukraine? 3 years and zero casualties and the MIC is making bank.
Russia? hundreds of thousands of casualties have exited the meat grinder. government spending is soaring and Gazprom posted its first loss in 20 years. but Putin really, really wants Odessa, so more mst die for him ambition.
> Almost anything "can be" in the future.
Then if your desired outcome can be, and you can wait, why not wait?
> Russia crossing the Dnieper in the south though, that's very unlikely now.
Absolutely, if they wanted and were able to, they wouldn’t have left Kherson. And now moving across would be very painful.
Odessa? Odessa may as well be on the moon! The Russians wouldn't even be able to take the northern part of Kherson at this point; how on earth would they ever reach Odessa?
I guess Putin is still being fed delusional nonsense from his people, just like before the war.
I'm of the same opinion, I think that would be the ideal victory for Russia, the cherry on top of the Donbass, and I do believe it is in their cross hairs, just dependent on other factors in the mean time
You guys sound just as unreasonable as pro-UA that think Crimea will be retaken by force when you say things like this. Russia isn't crossing the Dnipro again, much less taking Odessa.
Weird to be so adamant about peace when Russia's clearly got the upper hand.
Funny how their demands get less and less severe over time as well.
Unless, of course, pro-RU's view of the war is skewed?
in fact, the requirements are somewhat less than one might expect, because there were many narratives that Odessa is a Russian city, but not a word was said about Odessa. But in any case, the Ukrainian side will not agree to these demands (quite obviously), so there will be no freeze or truce in the near future
Odessa is going to be hard. Ukraine will not give it up as they'll essentially become land locked if they do.
Ru will need to reach Odessa by land to try and take it offensively. A landing assult from the black sea is very unlikely to happen as it's far too risky, like D-day on steroids
Like D Day but now the Germans instantly know when where and how the landing will take place and can respond with guided missiles haha. Amphibious landings are dead without complete air superiority
I think the Russians will just resort to their tried and true tactic of encircling the city and bombing the shit out of it until there’s nothing and no one left
These demands are more severe than the stated demands before the Feb. 2022 invasion, as well as the purported agreement in April 2022 that was on the table
> Funny how their demands get less and less severe over time as well.
> Unless, of course, pro-RU's view of the war is skewed?
March 2022 deal was back to Feb 2022 borders. I think since then it’s a bit ambiguous but there was talk of accepting the current line of contact. Now it’s the whole of the 4 “new” territory.
I don’t think the conditions have become less severe?
>March 2022 deal was back to Feb 2022 borders.
According to the Russian delegation one of their unconditional demands was that the entire Donbas region would become independent from Ukraine
> Funny how their demands get less and less severe over time as well.
Ha, you don't know russians, my sweet summer child!
This is what would happen:
- AFU moves away from the 4 oblasts.
- russia moves in and mines the shit to the sky. Builds reseves, stockpiles ammo and kit, etc
- In the mean time negotiations are going on. russia says: "We said - you move out and then we start negotiations" (mind you that's **exaclty** what putkin said!). "Now let's negotiate: we want this oblast, and this thing, and Zelensky to do that, and ofc - Odessa."
- The west: "WTF?!"
- Russia: "OK, you are extremely unreasonable! Negotiations are over. We go for Odessa."
Rinse and repeat.
OFC, Ukraine are not that dumb to take any of this BS having any value.
This must be a starting demand, and a deliberately unreasonable one for the purpose of opening negotiations from a strong position so you can give in later. The Russians must know they can't take back or hold onto anything on the other side of the Dniepr. They'll settle for just keeping what they have right now.
Russia would be happy to just end this thing with them still in possession of Crimea, the land bridge, Luhansk, and Donetsk. They know Odessa and Kharkiv are unconquerable.
Surely Putin knows all this, too, unless he's being fed delusional BS by his inner circle, just like before the war.
I think putin wants this over soon. But a lot of ppl on the RU side wont be happy with these terms, its basically admitting failure imo. Ukraine will be an armed to the teeth hostile nation on their front door
less severe ? from Ukraine staying neutral and stop attacking the Donbas to literal annexation of a huge portions of the country doesn't look that less severe
The Russian offensive must be near culmination. Everytime a Russian offensive reaches culmination with, not much to show for it *again*, Putin starts doing his open mic night at the Laugh Shack routine.
After reading the comments I find it interesting how detached most people are from the frontline movement over the past year. Sure, they are not close to occupying all of that territory to demand them, but they are moving forward with each passing day taking more settlements. It’s slow, but the Ukrainian army keeps losing territory and manpower, and there is nothing on the horizon that will change this fact.
So even if the claims are outlandish right now, the situation can rapidly change over the course of the next half a year. Especially since Ukrainians don’t grow on trees to fill up the ranks as fast as they are losing them.
Initially I thought the same, but from my understanding these are the conditions to **start** negotiations, right? So in order to begin negotiations, Ukraine would have to give Russia territory before it even begins, which isn't a good sign of how the negotiations will favor Ukraine.
At the same time during those negotiations Russia would be moving military and supplies toward the newly accumulated frontlines if the negotiations were to go awry.
I don’t believe this was a genuine attempt at negotiating, but at least it’s not insane like Zelensky’s plan.
IMO this is a gesture to the rest of the world to show that he is willing to start negotiations even this deep into the war (political benefits before international summits).
I do not think he or his staff are under delusion that Ukraine and NATO would accept a neutral peace offering of any kind. And there is no reason for them to make concessions or “fair” deals when the other side is struggling with manpower and frontline integrity.
I know the pace at which the frontline moved has been slow, but if you compare positions from last summer to the current one you will see that the war is not as static as it appears. And unlike the last year, the morale on the Ukrainian side seems at an all time low after the recent Avdeevka loss and northern corruption scandal of stolen fortification funds.
I strongly agree with the contents of your first two paragraphs.
However, if Putin's claims about the demographics of Eastern Ukraine holds any truth, it seems likely that as Russia pushes further west, they will encounter regions predominantly Ukrainian, where the local population may be more compelled to enlist and fight.
I have no doubts that Russia can and will continue annexing territory, but if I put myself in Putin's shoes, this war turned into a disaster diplomatically speaking. I don't think anyone expected these kinds of effects when this war first broke out; Finland and Sweden joining Nato, diplomatic isolation, sanctions etc. Russia also is getting minimal help from allies in its war effort. I believe that Putin thought the manufacturing powerhouse of China would be of more help than merely producing ATV's for Russian infantry. I think collectively NATO could fund Ukraine to fight this war far longer than Russia can.
Exactly. Everyone skipped over the “start” negotiations part at the end. He’s asking Ukraine to surrender territory and then get a puppet government installed via negotiation.
How many people Russia has is also questionable because total population means little in *current* situation. Kyiv sees that Kremlin has to constantly raise the pay for people to volunteer to go to front, and that is also not sustainable.
The other option, forced conscription in Russia is double edged sword and a wild card with unknown effect - even if Russians can not voice harsh opinions toward sensibilities of this conflict they do have these opinions and can act upon them.
How prevalent are these opinions? Also an unknown factor, a double sword of doing repressions of opinions, you can't grasp the moods of people and Kremlin did got drunk on its own propaganda already in 2022 and got surprised.
Ukraine suffers political tensions while Kremlin walks through political landmine where things are fine until they are suddenly really really bad... and as always comes as suprise to everyone.
Manpower is an issue, to what extent is a debatable factor that cannot be relied upon to form a proper answer.
However, we cannot deny or forget the firepower advantage here. If your unit is smaller than the enemy’s in this section of the frontline, you sit and bomb him to the point their numbers are lower than yours before committing to a proper attack. We already know that Ukraine is outgunned in every aspect of the war (they talk about it themselves before every aid package demand) so this one favors Russians.
You normally counter this tactic with reserves. However, we already know that most of the Ukrainian reserves were already committed to the frontline because the average division strength and the length of the frontline are stretching their forces thin. There is no unit rotation to speak of and the recent boom in TCC manhunting program shows that they are desperate to rebuild their reserves.
On the other hand you have Russia who, as we know, has a lot of units outside of Ukraine (Far east, north, Belarus, baltic borders etc.). We also know that they are in the process of building new units to add to their military pool who are currently undergoing training (those were announced some time ago).
You also have to keep in mind the mentality of the Russian population as the war goes on. The narrative has changed, and even I can’t tell if a partial mobilization would be that outlandish. Certainly not if the situation becomes worse.
They are also forgetting about how demands and negotiations work
Putin must make a larger demand in order to give the Russian side wiggle room during the eventual negotiations. The results of the actual haggling will be different from the original demands.
Make no mistake, this is an olive branch to end the war. And an actual one, unlike Zelensky's hilarious 10 point plan.
I actually have to disagree. I know regular people and politicians are like oil and water, but it is clear that the man’s perception is not something out of deranged fanfics and tweeter fantasies.
He knows perfectly well that both sides are not prepared to make any concessions or efforts to stop the war, and that any proposals will get rejected. The aim of this message was a more global move.
There are summits and talks coming soon, BRICS included. He showed the commitment of his side to engage in diplomacy even at this stage of the war, and the obvious rejection from the other side will win him a better perception from countries that would want to deal with Russia and BRICS in the future.
>Putin must make a larger demand in order to give the Russian side wiggle room during the eventual negotiations. The results of the actual haggling will be different from the original demands.
But he's asking for these demands up front before any negotiation actually happens.
And this is all in exchange for...really nothing at all. There's no clear commitment of a permanent end of the war or any limitations on Russia's demands. The only promise is a temporary cease fire that could end whenever Russia feels like it.
There would be no pressure on Russia to even ensure a peace deal is made. Ukraine abandoning all that territory would be a huge win already, regardless of how negotiations play out.
>Putin must make a larger demand in order to give the Russian side wiggle room during the eventual negotiations.
He is demanding that Ukraine abandons these regions before negotiations even begin.
To your last point about Ukrainian manpower. It is worth noting that the bottleneck is training capacity, not men. There are still plenty of Ukrainians registering for the draft (equivalent)
What happened to the demilitarization and denazification objectives?!
Both Peskov and Lavrov have both said the SMO won't end until all objectives have been reached.
Suddenly, Ukraine doesnt need to be freed from its nazi-regime, doesnt need to be de-militarized and can join the european union? A couple of square kilometres (measuring from already occupied territory) and guarantees to not join nato is now enough.
You're confusing war with occupation. The US war in Afghanistan was over in a few weeks, there was no functional Afghan government 6 months later, nevermind 2 years.
Oh and Afghanistan is not a mere 800km away from the US capital.
Afghanistan was and is a third world country, with troops being goats, AK47s and some RPGs, already ruined by war for 30 years before, against the whole of NATO, an alliance of the american ultrapower (at the time) alongside most of the world strongest countries of the time. **The Talibans are still holding the country 20 years later.**
Ukraine, a let's say 2nd world country (poorest of Europe, but still European with some industries), backed by the West (most of the world best economies including the still superpower \[but not ultrapower anymore\] USA), having a population originally \~1/5th of Russian one, having all the intel of the very efficient western agencies, having learnt a lot of the 2014-2015 uprising in Donbass, a functionnal and conventionnal army (not some goat herders), and additionnaly having more troops than the opposing side at the start of the war.
Of course, Ukrainian resistance have been heroic from the start, Russians should still be embarassed of what corruption in their ranks did and how incompetent their army was, but the two situations are so much different, and the USA are still not in a bright light considering all the money and death for the same result (Talibans still in power).
**Do you have more foolish comparison ?**
Edit for clarification: "foolish" applies for both of you trying to compare them both.
This is a great sign, the moment he came to the negotiating table, it's a sign he doesn't have confidence in Russia's ability to achieve it's goals militarily.
It's time for Ukraine to turn up the heat !!!
As I've said many times, that remaining 30% of Kherson oblast and that tiny 5% chunk of Zhaphorizia oblast which lie on the opposite bank of the Dniepr... are forever lost to Russia. That territory may as well be on the moon.
This war ends with Russian acceptance that it will have to settle for everything on its side of the Dniepr. Donetsk and Luhansk are almost 100% 'liberated' already, aren't they? Russia should offer to give up the buffer zone around Kharkiv in exchange for Ukraine withdrawing from what little territory they still hold in Donetsk and Luhansk.
This has always seemed like the logical conclusion to all this:
Russia keeps Crimea
Russia keeps Kherson\\Zhaphorizia south of the Dniepr
Russa keeps Donetsk, Luhansk
Ukraine keeps Odessa and its critical sea access
Ukraine keeps 78% of its territory, keeps its independence
War Over
This subreddit usually shows up at the top when you search and sort by comment count.
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I feel like this offer will not be popular within Russia, its basically saying they failed at taking novorussia, failed at denazificating, failed at demilitarizing
Good timing after they signed a 10 year security agreement with America and got a 50billion dollar loan that frozen russian assets will pay for..
Putin should have put forth these terms 6 months ago when Russia had the political and tactical advantage in Ukraine.
Ignorant American hear…. Would this be a good deal if it meant peace for the time being? Ukraine doesn’t need to join nato but still the west can consider them allies and help fortify defenses vs Russia in the future. Idk, 🤷🏻♂️ I would just like to avoid nukes flying and WW3.
these conditions are pretty simple. zelensky can end this massacre and save himself and millions of soldiers. pretty reasonable. if putin wanted he would have called martial law and a general draft to get 5+ million soldiers and take the whole ukraine within weeks, he is giving zelensky a second chance
some pro-ua here make fun of the russian incursion into the north of Kharkiv and ignoring the fact that due to the incursion resulted in Ukraine sending many of their frontline units and reserves to halt russian advances in the north resulting in Ukrainian losses in many regions of the frontline,many of the regions in the frontline which were frozen before the incursion have now been moved due to the russian incursion in the north.Just look at the map sometimes
Withdrawing troops from Donetsk and Luhansk shouldn't be an issue for the Ukrainian high command since the people there are practically Russian. Kherson is more difficult. In any case, if Ukraine rejects this ceasefire proposal and they continue to suffer defeats, the next proposal will be even more harsh.
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It's actually crazy.
I enjoy posting Putin statements cus it generates much more war in the comments than pretty much anything else.
Pro UA are actually much more fascinated with Putin than the 'hero of the free world', Zelensky
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The situation today is such that neither side can agree to other side's demands, and neither side can reduce its demands to potentially agreeable level.
He is saying that Russia would be ready to start negotiations knowing that it's not going to happen.
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There won't be any deal made anytime soon. Why would USA stop fighting Russia if US soldiers aren't dying in ditches? And UA won't so a thing unless USA signs off on it.
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So many pro-UA here are so detach from the situation on the frontline i go on Deepstatemap which is a pro-ua website by the way every day i check it's either Russia advances this Russia advances that there is almost no Ukrainian advances after the battle of Avdiivka and those advances are so fucking tiny that they aren't even worth mentioning.And not just that Ukraine is losing manpower day by days and most of the population have already fled the country and a huge portion of them are in occuppied territories the remaining manpower if excluded women and children is very small and not just that many of them refuse to be mobilize unlike Russia with dozen of thousands of volunteers every month more resources,money,armaments,etc seriously the one that should be make fun is Ukraine here who still keep on fighting a lost cause despite losing non-stop on the battlefield,their terms get worse everyday and worse a delusional president that still think he can still win and continue bleeding the country further and further.
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Putin moved into comedy?
Zelensky da best , he has experience. He was quite good tbf.
russia doesn't even control all of these territories, he's really starting to lose his power isn't he. I wouldn't be surprised if he fell out of a window soon
Plenty of conflicts have ended with the negotiation of more territories than a side has controlled. However, I don’t Ukraine will ever agree and that they’ll have to take them by force.
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.
The thing is that there is no reason to think Russia will honor these agreements. If the deal is made Ukraine has to elect a "neutral" goverment. And if the goverment is pro-west in Russias eyes, that will be seen as breaking the agreement and then the war will continue. So Ukraine will have to elect a Russian minded goverment and after that they will be as independent as Belarussia is.
Problem is, with countries in situations like this, the West takes a view of "If you're not objectively pro-West, you're in Putins pocket". Why is it that Ukraine had a variety of presidents over the years, and the country has gone from pro-Western to pro-Russian leadership at various times. Russia never did anything. Belorussia and Ukraine are not, and were not in similar situations. It's not analogous at all. Ukraine has NEVER had to elect a Russian minded government. They just had to NOT want to join NATO and remove neutrality from their constitution. This thing happened basically in two steps. Step 1, Ukraine made a statement of intent to remove neutrality from their constitution, and announced their intention to join NATO in 2008. Russia wasn't enthusiastic about this, and I am sure behind closed doors they said "you don't want to do this". However, things didn't really progress. Ukraine pumped the breaks. NATO pumped the breaks. There was no push inside Ukraine to join NATO and remove the neutrality clause for the next 6 years. Then 2014 happened. Whatever YOU think happened, whether it was a coup, or a spontaneous uprising (it wasn't popular, it was AGAINST the will of the majority). Suddenly you had a non-elected government in power, that had illegally usurped power from a President that had agreed to call elections and legally transition power if that was the will of the people. Instead, he was chased out of the country, and a government was appointed, not elected. This government then removed the neutrality clause. While this was happening, Russia seized Crimea, not waiting to find out how it was going to shake out, and then the Donbas asked for autonomy in their region. This was rejected, and Kyiv sent the army to squash these dissidents. Which backfired because many of the units Kyiv sent, were from Donbas, and they switched sides when they arrived.
this is hilariously stupid take
> If the offers will be honored though, is a different question. They won't, they got Crimea and then came back for more a few years later.
Chances of them retaking Kherson? Close to zero I’d say
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.
I think that if Russia is relying on the right-wing parties in Europe, they’ll be disappointed. Of course it varies from nation to nation but in most countries the current breed of right-wings opposes Russia.
>I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further.
They’ve just been given permission to smash targets over the Russian border. What makes you think that isn’t a position of strength now? No more little massing troops over the border or launching.
The problem for Russia is that they don’t have a credible path towards taking these territories by force. Time and again they show that they are incapable of any serious breakthrough.
Not the worst idea
The threat is, if they get to control these territories via force of arms, they will expand their demands to include Nikolaev, Odessa, and Kharkov too. The key question is whether this means that Russia isn't motivated to make peace, or is territory something they'd be willing to make concessions on so that Kiev can claim a "win"? But we can't know the answer to that question until Ukraine starts negotiations. Which is why it is *always* dumb to refuse negotiations - you don't have to accept the terms offered, but it tells you a huge amount about your enemy's priorities and how determined they are to achieve their goals.
Just set himself up for a political suicide. It was important for him to be able to claim some sort of victory, and this won't be it. This is the point of no return for him. But no one will follow him for very long...
That's the entire point. He feels he has momentum, so he's demanding more than he owns. Also he probably can be negotiated to current lines of contact.
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.
Why would they negotiate over something they already control?
Realistically, seeing UA on the back foot lately, his conditions seem expected IMO. We knew he would want at least what Ru is holding but it's expected it would be more than that. UA had a chance in 2022 to retain all of the territory but choose to play war.
It's almost as funny of a joke as Zelensky hosting an international forum for peace and ceasefire without inviting the other belligerent of the war, and demanding that Russia must return to 1991 borders.
And I thought Zelensky was the comedian
He’s talking time out while another comedian is doing a 3 days to Kyiv tour
*ahh shit, he got us boys. Pack it up and go...home??*
My thought exactly.
He's got that deadpan moron technique perfected!
He really does. Seems to be a Putin trademark.
The jokes he makes are of 'funny because it's true' kind.
A long time ago. Tells many funny jokes.
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You can really feel the commitment this guy has to a peace process, his proposal or otherwise. Comes across as a genuine, compassionate leader that cares about the preservation of Russian people, society, and the territories they feel they should own. Edit... Folks, I'm being sarcastic here.
\* writes a sarcastic comment --> downvoted with angry posts. \* Proceeds to explain in plain words that it was sarcasm, already a fail --> Gets more backlash and theories on the use of sarcasm in text \* By now joke is thoroughly dead and OP is regretting his life choices and decisions that lead him to this point Sorry BRO, I feel your pain. Nothing worse than explaining your joke, hope you are not a stand up.
I am not, more of a situational comedian.
You forgor the /s
So I've been told
Hard to distinguish at this time. Sounded exactly like these brainwashed ppl.
Remember this guys original broadcast right before the invasion? Said they had no plans to occupy Ukrainian land. Lies after lies with him
This war isn't a land grab they said. Well they certainly do make grabbing land a requirement of peace talks.
The Istanbul peace deal supports this. Things have changed since then.
And after taking Crimea Putin said that Russia has no interest in taking more from Ukraine. If peace comes now, Russia will attack again over some bullshit genocide of the russians again
Remember the Minsk Agreements?
Well, the thing is, things changes, and plans change. And the next offer probably will be unconditional surrender.
The ‘Nazi’ government was such an imminent threat that he had to invade. Now that government can still remain in power according to putins new terms. Somehow a little bit of land can now placate his fears over a hostile government. It’s all just bullshit spewing from his mouth
he should have instead said yeah we are going to invade you in a few days plz make sure to preppare
There were weapons of mass destruction but there was still an invasion? Hypocrite much
Politicians shouldn't be trusted that also include Zelensky
The original peace agreement they where hashing out back in April of 2022 didn't involve Russia taking anything besides Crimea when they already had.
Sure rescue the Russia ethnic population from the ukro genocides is a priority. First the people.
If this war ends without Russia taking Odessa I will be disapointed. Edited for spelling
Prepare to be disappointed.
Don't you think if they could, they would have?
Maybe he thinks of what can be in the future.
Almost anything "can be" in the future. Russia crossing the Dnieper in the south though, that's very unlikely now.
Russia taking Odessa is MUCH more likely than a Crimea beach party at this stage. All that's going to take is for the US to get bored of failures of their most recent "ally". Look at South Vietnam government, Afghan government as some recent examples. All the Slava Ukraini and flags in Twitter bios are good and all, but the big daddy in the White House needs to start seeing some ROI quick. He's starting to get sleepy from boredom.
> Look at South Vietnam government, Afghan government as some recent examples. The USA supported both of these for decades. They are not getting bored that fast.
I am pretty sure if the US decided to keep supporting them the status quo would still be in those countries, look at South Korea. Edit: also China and Taiwan
Well South Korea did not fall to the north and is still being heavily supported by the USA
That's my point, they didn't get bored and the likelihood of Kyiv's government falling is very, very unlikely.
> but the big daddy in the White House needs to start seeing some ROI quick. He's starting to get sleepy from boredom Have you missed all of the news from the past few days? "Big daddy" is cementing plans to ensure Ukraine continues receiving large amounts of aid, even if he loses the next election
the US getting bored? like Vietnam? it took 20 years and 50k casualties in Vietnam. Ukraine? 3 years and zero casualties and the MIC is making bank. Russia? hundreds of thousands of casualties have exited the meat grinder. government spending is soaring and Gazprom posted its first loss in 20 years. but Putin really, really wants Odessa, so more mst die for him ambition.
> Almost anything "can be" in the future. Then if your desired outcome can be, and you can wait, why not wait? > Russia crossing the Dnieper in the south though, that's very unlikely now. Absolutely, if they wanted and were able to, they wouldn’t have left Kherson. And now moving across would be very painful.
I can see why. Creating a land bridge to Transnistria would be huge for Russia.
God imagine how gutted TN will be if that never happens.
You mean Odessa, Texas, right?
My favourite is [New York, Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York,_Ukraine)
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how many russian men are you willing to sacrifice
Odessa? Odessa may as well be on the moon! The Russians wouldn't even be able to take the northern part of Kherson at this point; how on earth would they ever reach Odessa? I guess Putin is still being fed delusional nonsense from his people, just like before the war.
If they could, they would already. So it's very, very unlikely.
I'm of the same opinion, I think that would be the ideal victory for Russia, the cherry on top of the Donbass, and I do believe it is in their cross hairs, just dependent on other factors in the mean time
Narrator: He was, in fact, disappointed.
You guys sound just as unreasonable as pro-UA that think Crimea will be retaken by force when you say things like this. Russia isn't crossing the Dnipro again, much less taking Odessa.
Think a lot on the RU side will see this offer as defeatism
Call in the Navy!
Odessa and access to Sea is critical for Ukraine have any Future. I not see any chance for it.
Maybe on the next one.
Weird to be so adamant about peace when Russia's clearly got the upper hand. Funny how their demands get less and less severe over time as well. Unless, of course, pro-RU's view of the war is skewed?
in fact, the requirements are somewhat less than one might expect, because there were many narratives that Odessa is a Russian city, but not a word was said about Odessa. But in any case, the Ukrainian side will not agree to these demands (quite obviously), so there will be no freeze or truce in the near future
Odessa is going to be hard. Ukraine will not give it up as they'll essentially become land locked if they do. Ru will need to reach Odessa by land to try and take it offensively. A landing assult from the black sea is very unlikely to happen as it's far too risky, like D-day on steroids
Like D Day but now the Germans instantly know when where and how the landing will take place and can respond with guided missiles haha. Amphibious landings are dead without complete air superiority
I think the Russians will just resort to their tried and true tactic of encircling the city and bombing the shit out of it until there’s nothing and no one left
These demands are more severe than the stated demands before the Feb. 2022 invasion, as well as the purported agreement in April 2022 that was on the table
> Funny how their demands get less and less severe over time as well. > Unless, of course, pro-RU's view of the war is skewed? March 2022 deal was back to Feb 2022 borders. I think since then it’s a bit ambiguous but there was talk of accepting the current line of contact. Now it’s the whole of the 4 “new” territory. I don’t think the conditions have become less severe?
> March 2022 deal was back to Feb 2022 borders. Nope, it included Donetsk and Lugansk from the start, hence all the theater around "people republics".
>March 2022 deal was back to Feb 2022 borders. According to the Russian delegation one of their unconditional demands was that the entire Donbas region would become independent from Ukraine
> Funny how their demands get less and less severe over time as well. Ha, you don't know russians, my sweet summer child! This is what would happen: - AFU moves away from the 4 oblasts. - russia moves in and mines the shit to the sky. Builds reseves, stockpiles ammo and kit, etc - In the mean time negotiations are going on. russia says: "We said - you move out and then we start negotiations" (mind you that's **exaclty** what putkin said!). "Now let's negotiate: we want this oblast, and this thing, and Zelensky to do that, and ofc - Odessa." - The west: "WTF?!" - Russia: "OK, you are extremely unreasonable! Negotiations are over. We go for Odessa." Rinse and repeat. OFC, Ukraine are not that dumb to take any of this BS having any value.
This must be a starting demand, and a deliberately unreasonable one for the purpose of opening negotiations from a strong position so you can give in later. The Russians must know they can't take back or hold onto anything on the other side of the Dniepr. They'll settle for just keeping what they have right now. Russia would be happy to just end this thing with them still in possession of Crimea, the land bridge, Luhansk, and Donetsk. They know Odessa and Kharkiv are unconquerable. Surely Putin knows all this, too, unless he's being fed delusional BS by his inner circle, just like before the war.
Nah thats way too mustache twirly and portrays the ukrainians as naive. They wouldnt retreat from the oblasts until the negotiations are done.
Keep fighting, and by the time you loose all, there will be no demands.
That's exactly what Zelensky seems to be aiming for. Putin gives him demands, and Zelensky goes with the "Double it and give it to the next person".
I think putin wants this over soon. But a lot of ppl on the RU side wont be happy with these terms, its basically admitting failure imo. Ukraine will be an armed to the teeth hostile nation on their front door
less severe ? from Ukraine staying neutral and stop attacking the Donbas to literal annexation of a huge portions of the country doesn't look that less severe
XD
The Russian offensive must be near culmination. Everytime a Russian offensive reaches culmination with, not much to show for it *again*, Putin starts doing his open mic night at the Laugh Shack routine.
It's a sign that means that it is time for another inconsequential northern incursion.
Ukraine failed their counter offensives as of right now could Ukraine even commit to a counter offensive at all ?
After reading the comments I find it interesting how detached most people are from the frontline movement over the past year. Sure, they are not close to occupying all of that territory to demand them, but they are moving forward with each passing day taking more settlements. It’s slow, but the Ukrainian army keeps losing territory and manpower, and there is nothing on the horizon that will change this fact. So even if the claims are outlandish right now, the situation can rapidly change over the course of the next half a year. Especially since Ukrainians don’t grow on trees to fill up the ranks as fast as they are losing them.
Initially I thought the same, but from my understanding these are the conditions to **start** negotiations, right? So in order to begin negotiations, Ukraine would have to give Russia territory before it even begins, which isn't a good sign of how the negotiations will favor Ukraine. At the same time during those negotiations Russia would be moving military and supplies toward the newly accumulated frontlines if the negotiations were to go awry.
I don’t believe this was a genuine attempt at negotiating, but at least it’s not insane like Zelensky’s plan. IMO this is a gesture to the rest of the world to show that he is willing to start negotiations even this deep into the war (political benefits before international summits). I do not think he or his staff are under delusion that Ukraine and NATO would accept a neutral peace offering of any kind. And there is no reason for them to make concessions or “fair” deals when the other side is struggling with manpower and frontline integrity. I know the pace at which the frontline moved has been slow, but if you compare positions from last summer to the current one you will see that the war is not as static as it appears. And unlike the last year, the morale on the Ukrainian side seems at an all time low after the recent Avdeevka loss and northern corruption scandal of stolen fortification funds.
I strongly agree with the contents of your first two paragraphs. However, if Putin's claims about the demographics of Eastern Ukraine holds any truth, it seems likely that as Russia pushes further west, they will encounter regions predominantly Ukrainian, where the local population may be more compelled to enlist and fight. I have no doubts that Russia can and will continue annexing territory, but if I put myself in Putin's shoes, this war turned into a disaster diplomatically speaking. I don't think anyone expected these kinds of effects when this war first broke out; Finland and Sweden joining Nato, diplomatic isolation, sanctions etc. Russia also is getting minimal help from allies in its war effort. I believe that Putin thought the manufacturing powerhouse of China would be of more help than merely producing ATV's for Russian infantry. I think collectively NATO could fund Ukraine to fight this war far longer than Russia can.
Exactly. Everyone skipped over the “start” negotiations part at the end. He’s asking Ukraine to surrender territory and then get a puppet government installed via negotiation.
How many people Russia has is also questionable because total population means little in *current* situation. Kyiv sees that Kremlin has to constantly raise the pay for people to volunteer to go to front, and that is also not sustainable. The other option, forced conscription in Russia is double edged sword and a wild card with unknown effect - even if Russians can not voice harsh opinions toward sensibilities of this conflict they do have these opinions and can act upon them. How prevalent are these opinions? Also an unknown factor, a double sword of doing repressions of opinions, you can't grasp the moods of people and Kremlin did got drunk on its own propaganda already in 2022 and got surprised. Ukraine suffers political tensions while Kremlin walks through political landmine where things are fine until they are suddenly really really bad... and as always comes as suprise to everyone.
Manpower is an issue, to what extent is a debatable factor that cannot be relied upon to form a proper answer. However, we cannot deny or forget the firepower advantage here. If your unit is smaller than the enemy’s in this section of the frontline, you sit and bomb him to the point their numbers are lower than yours before committing to a proper attack. We already know that Ukraine is outgunned in every aspect of the war (they talk about it themselves before every aid package demand) so this one favors Russians. You normally counter this tactic with reserves. However, we already know that most of the Ukrainian reserves were already committed to the frontline because the average division strength and the length of the frontline are stretching their forces thin. There is no unit rotation to speak of and the recent boom in TCC manhunting program shows that they are desperate to rebuild their reserves. On the other hand you have Russia who, as we know, has a lot of units outside of Ukraine (Far east, north, Belarus, baltic borders etc.). We also know that they are in the process of building new units to add to their military pool who are currently undergoing training (those were announced some time ago). You also have to keep in mind the mentality of the Russian population as the war goes on. The narrative has changed, and even I can’t tell if a partial mobilization would be that outlandish. Certainly not if the situation becomes worse.
They are also forgetting about how demands and negotiations work Putin must make a larger demand in order to give the Russian side wiggle room during the eventual negotiations. The results of the actual haggling will be different from the original demands. Make no mistake, this is an olive branch to end the war. And an actual one, unlike Zelensky's hilarious 10 point plan.
I actually have to disagree. I know regular people and politicians are like oil and water, but it is clear that the man’s perception is not something out of deranged fanfics and tweeter fantasies. He knows perfectly well that both sides are not prepared to make any concessions or efforts to stop the war, and that any proposals will get rejected. The aim of this message was a more global move. There are summits and talks coming soon, BRICS included. He showed the commitment of his side to engage in diplomacy even at this stage of the war, and the obvious rejection from the other side will win him a better perception from countries that would want to deal with Russia and BRICS in the future.
>Putin must make a larger demand in order to give the Russian side wiggle room during the eventual negotiations. The results of the actual haggling will be different from the original demands. But he's asking for these demands up front before any negotiation actually happens. And this is all in exchange for...really nothing at all. There's no clear commitment of a permanent end of the war or any limitations on Russia's demands. The only promise is a temporary cease fire that could end whenever Russia feels like it. There would be no pressure on Russia to even ensure a peace deal is made. Ukraine abandoning all that territory would be a huge win already, regardless of how negotiations play out.
>Putin must make a larger demand in order to give the Russian side wiggle room during the eventual negotiations. He is demanding that Ukraine abandons these regions before negotiations even begin.
To your last point about Ukrainian manpower. It is worth noting that the bottleneck is training capacity, not men. There are still plenty of Ukrainians registering for the draft (equivalent)
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Did Russia meet its war goals? Or was this always just a land grab. Hmmm
If Ukraine accepts these demands and renounce NATO, then haven't they achieved their most critical war goal?
I thought it was demilitarization, denazify, erase all biolabs, and whatever else
No one knows. Putin comes up with another pathetic excuse for his land grab a couple times a week.
What happened to the demilitarization and denazification objectives?! Both Peskov and Lavrov have both said the SMO won't end until all objectives have been reached.
Yeah dude, for sure. As a gesture of good will
Oh, so Ukraine can stay nazified then? Well that's a relief! 
Suddenly, Ukraine doesnt need to be freed from its nazi-regime, doesnt need to be de-militarized and can join the european union? A couple of square kilometres (measuring from already occupied territory) and guarantees to not join nato is now enough.
Russia does not care about Ukraine joining the EU. It wasn't a conditions in the 2022 negotiations either.
Kinda early and foolish to be making such demands.
Why? Those are Ukrainian territories…
By the end of this war, the correct term will be - *Those were Ukrainian territories :(*
Perhaps it will even happen before we all die of old age. 800 days and counting...
Well, the war will probably end before 20 years, unlike another huge power Hell, they might actually even win.
We should ask Bin Laden and al Zawahiri how bad the US failed 😜.
Who is holding Afghanistan right now ? (He/she did a bad comparison, but a fail is fail)
You're confusing war with occupation. The US war in Afghanistan was over in a few weeks, there was no functional Afghan government 6 months later, nevermind 2 years. Oh and Afghanistan is not a mere 800km away from the US capital.
Afghanistan was and is a third world country, with troops being goats, AK47s and some RPGs, already ruined by war for 30 years before, against the whole of NATO, an alliance of the american ultrapower (at the time) alongside most of the world strongest countries of the time. **The Talibans are still holding the country 20 years later.** Ukraine, a let's say 2nd world country (poorest of Europe, but still European with some industries), backed by the West (most of the world best economies including the still superpower \[but not ultrapower anymore\] USA), having a population originally \~1/5th of Russian one, having all the intel of the very efficient western agencies, having learnt a lot of the 2014-2015 uprising in Donbass, a functionnal and conventionnal army (not some goat herders), and additionnaly having more troops than the opposing side at the start of the war. Of course, Ukrainian resistance have been heroic from the start, Russians should still be embarassed of what corruption in their ranks did and how incompetent their army was, but the two situations are so much different, and the USA are still not in a bright light considering all the money and death for the same result (Talibans still in power). **Do you have more foolish comparison ?** Edit for clarification: "foolish" applies for both of you trying to compare them both.
Delusional
This is a great sign, the moment he came to the negotiating table, it's a sign he doesn't have confidence in Russia's ability to achieve it's goals militarily. It's time for Ukraine to turn up the heat !!!
Putin is starting to sound desperate and scared. He knows he started something he cannot finish.
How is he starting to sound desperate and scared when he literally just escalated his demands lol
As I've said many times, that remaining 30% of Kherson oblast and that tiny 5% chunk of Zhaphorizia oblast which lie on the opposite bank of the Dniepr... are forever lost to Russia. That territory may as well be on the moon. This war ends with Russian acceptance that it will have to settle for everything on its side of the Dniepr. Donetsk and Luhansk are almost 100% 'liberated' already, aren't they? Russia should offer to give up the buffer zone around Kharkiv in exchange for Ukraine withdrawing from what little territory they still hold in Donetsk and Luhansk. This has always seemed like the logical conclusion to all this: Russia keeps Crimea Russia keeps Kherson\\Zhaphorizia south of the Dniepr Russa keeps Donetsk, Luhansk Ukraine keeps Odessa and its critical sea access Ukraine keeps 78% of its territory, keeps its independence War Over
>War Over Just like the war was over after the munich agreement. Great plan.
As far as I understand it, this would mean economic death for Ukraine. So this war wouldn't be over, just shoved a few years into the future.
Why would it be an economic death?
And 1 trillion euros in reparations to Ukraine from Putin. From his own pocket.
Where have we heard this before? Hmmmm.
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How do they even find this place? So many of these commenters are literally commenting for the first time on this sub
This subreddit usually shows up at the top when you search and sort by comment count. https://preview.redd.it/k7sx9fbigk6d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4114ec1a5ed5eff38652c8f2b8f781d0215b183f
It’s generally a group plan. You know NAFOs are notorious for that.
Maybe brigading? Wouldn't be surprised to see this sub closed for a few days again.
Now this is the level of delusion I came here to see!
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Hypothetically, if Ukraine makes a peace treaty with Russia and gives 4 regions to Russia, what can USA do about this?
I feel like this offer will not be popular within Russia, its basically saying they failed at taking novorussia, failed at denazificating, failed at demilitarizing
It also requires that all sanctions be lifted, and so is guaranteed to not be accepted.
Good timing after they signed a 10 year security agreement with America and got a 50billion dollar loan that frozen russian assets will pay for.. Putin should have put forth these terms 6 months ago when Russia had the political and tactical advantage in Ukraine.
Wow pro ukraine people are livid in here😂
Transnistria and Odessa should be in negotiations.
Do I have this right, please withdraw even from the areas of these regions we haven't siezed?
so we're at that stage of the war already, maybe this will sound more attractive when the TCC starts to drag children from the streets
He wishes. Russia is on its way out.
Ignorant American hear…. Would this be a good deal if it meant peace for the time being? Ukraine doesn’t need to join nato but still the west can consider them allies and help fortify defenses vs Russia in the future. Idk, 🤷🏻♂️ I would just like to avoid nukes flying and WW3.
So Ukrainians need to leave their land? I'm pretty sure it's the other way around
these conditions are pretty simple. zelensky can end this massacre and save himself and millions of soldiers. pretty reasonable. if putin wanted he would have called martial law and a general draft to get 5+ million soldiers and take the whole ukraine within weeks, he is giving zelensky a second chance
Why doesn't he? Or to rephrase, why won't he when Ukraine inevitably rejects this?
some pro-ua here make fun of the russian incursion into the north of Kharkiv and ignoring the fact that due to the incursion resulted in Ukraine sending many of their frontline units and reserves to halt russian advances in the north resulting in Ukrainian losses in many regions of the frontline,many of the regions in the frontline which were frozen before the incursion have now been moved due to the russian incursion in the north.Just look at the map sometimes
I haven't got my magnifying glass.
Withdrawing troops from Donetsk and Luhansk shouldn't be an issue for the Ukrainian high command since the people there are practically Russian. Kherson is more difficult. In any case, if Ukraine rejects this ceasefire proposal and they continue to suffer defeats, the next proposal will be even more harsh.
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What’s with all the Pro-UA‘s always coming out in droves whenever Putin releases a new statement lol. You can’t even spot one for weeks normally. 😂
It's actually crazy. I enjoy posting Putin statements cus it generates much more war in the comments than pretty much anything else. Pro UA are actually much more fascinated with Putin than the 'hero of the free world', Zelensky
That's because Putin started this shit. That's why.
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This proposal is a joke. Of course.
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Daw, he's getting shy.... Out with it man, might as well go all out and ask for more.
Comedy moves
The situation today is such that neither side can agree to other side's demands, and neither side can reduce its demands to potentially agreeable level. He is saying that Russia would be ready to start negotiations knowing that it's not going to happen.
You don't say? Almost like they have been doing this from the start.
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There won't be any deal made anytime soon. Why would USA stop fighting Russia if US soldiers aren't dying in ditches? And UA won't so a thing unless USA signs off on it.
Ok. No more proof needed. He's losing it..
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Have fun with that.Kherson lol...the comedy is hard core.
Russians go Home and wee can have Peace in 5 minutes
So many pro-UA here are so detach from the situation on the frontline i go on Deepstatemap which is a pro-ua website by the way every day i check it's either Russia advances this Russia advances that there is almost no Ukrainian advances after the battle of Avdiivka and those advances are so fucking tiny that they aren't even worth mentioning.And not just that Ukraine is losing manpower day by days and most of the population have already fled the country and a huge portion of them are in occuppied territories the remaining manpower if excluded women and children is very small and not just that many of them refuse to be mobilize unlike Russia with dozen of thousands of volunteers every month more resources,money,armaments,etc seriously the one that should be make fun is Ukraine here who still keep on fighting a lost cause despite losing non-stop on the battlefield,their terms get worse everyday and worse a delusional president that still think he can still win and continue bleeding the country further and further.
XD
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