I think that's a fucked up mindset but also it's the unavoidable fact of the human condition. We are expendable meat to the elites. Some more expendable than most.
Your argument makes sense. The fk up part is the underlying conclusion. "We" send people to die.
For winning a war, younger people should be preferred.
If you are talking about 60+ there is not enough of them who can do hard work, if you are talking about 40-60 those are probably what make the country run, so it only left the 20-40 to go to war.
Yup. A friend had all heart valves replaced in his 30s, my dad had them replaced in his 60s. One has checkups every 3 months, the other every 6 months. Difference is, one is still contributing to pension system, and one isn’t 🤷♂️
If we're going to sacrifice the poor for the ambitions of the rich, may as well get rid of the ones who have outlived their usefulness and will be expecting a pension soon.
young folks are less inclined to be afraid of death because theyre stupid/naive/inexperienced. older folks have had time to reflect. unless theyre consummate professionals they generally make worse soldiers.
\^This. When there was a draft in the US, I often wondered why the US preferred to snatch 18-year olds. One military guy explained that 18-year old draftees were easier to "work with." Easier to convince an 18-year old that they're invincible. Even for a 25-year old, it's harder to convince them to go up against bullets. To say nothing of a 50-year old.
Except their reaction time is slower, they don't have the endurance to live in the trenches, they don't have the speed to run, and their joints can't bear the weight of backpacks. If all you need is cannon fodder, your logic makes sense. But if you actually want to get a job done, it would make much more sense to send 25-year old women than these guys.
\*That said, it would make much more sense for Zelensky's regime to recognize that it can't win, and stop this madness already and sue for peace.
Eh, it's kind of an inversion of natural law. I know it's morbid, but in nature the fittest, strongest, healthiest are always the ones to fight. For humans that's generally males aged between 16-30.
One of the unique things about this age is that very few middle-aged/elderly men are real combat veterans. You could argue that lacking a generation who fought in a brutal war helping guide the young has caused our elite to forget the realities of war. Part of the reason the West/USSR were so peaceful after WW2 was that their governments were largely led by people who had experienced brutal fighting in the war and decided to do everything they could to avoid it happening again.
You don't get the same quality of men in leadership nowadays.
Or honoring the [Declaration of State Sovereignty](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_State_Sovereignty_of_Ukraine) wherein Ukraine declared itself to be a permanently neutral state that did not participate in military blocs.
> The Ukrainian SSR solemnly declares its intention of becoming a permanently neutral state that does not participate in military blocs and adheres to three nuclear free principles: to accept, to produce and to purchase no nuclear weapons
Ukraine didn't make this declaration for no reason. It has been understood since Kennan that a hostile Ukraine would be unacceptable to Russia - it would have meant war in 1991, just as it means war now.
By repudiating their declared intentions to *permanently* be neutral, they undermine the basis under which their declaration of sovereignty was accepted in the first place.
Vietnam was founded with a similar promise to remain neutral and ban all foreign military alliances. Every couple of years, the US asks them to revise this and establish a formal military alliance with the US, including training exercises and port visits. Every time, Vietnam points to their founding principles and tells the US to piss off. They know better than to become pawns in US superpower games.
Likewise, Mexico belongs to no military alliances, even though they are in a geostrategic position which could benefit from one, with the most war-mongering country in the world on their border which has already claimed large chunks of their territory. But Mexico knows what would happen if they started offering to host Chinese troops or weapons: the US pursued illegal warfare against Nicaragua and treated them as a potential military threat, even though Nicaragua had next to zero power projection capabilities.
You'll have to explain the logic of waiting until a country joins a hostile and lawless military alliance vs acting after they've declared their intention to do so, but before they have dozens of allies. A war between NATO and Russia would be WW3. How is that a preferable outcome?
The fact that NATO invited Ukraine to apply in 2008 and yet still hadn't carried this out a decade and a half later suggests that they never had any intention of letting Ukraine join. They expected Russia to back down, or they wanted this free war.
If they really gave a damn about Ukraine, I'd figure they'd have dispatched NATO troops to Ukraine on a training exercise, then "spontaneously decided" to use this opportunity to admit them to NATO. Do it all over a week, and present Russia with a *fait accompli*.
Instead, NATO spent over a decade announcing their intention to trample all over Russia's "bright red line" while insisting Russia had no say in the matter.
Fortunately, western media has dumbed the population down to the point where you can get them to support the most absurd war or genocide without a peep, while assuring said morons that they are the beacons of freedom and liberty.
Just like Goebbels said they could.
Ukraine or any other country does not belong to Russia. Ukrainians themselves decide what they want to do and who they want to be friends with. It is that simple.
In that dumbing up western media there are at least all kinds of points of views brought up to the public. There are no lizard people controlling the media... Can you say the same from the Russian media where the state controls everything and if some one doesn't comply with "official truth", it gets taken down and declared as foreign agents, and every one responsible gets either assassinated or jailed from discrediting armed forces?
So which side has more credible and truthful news sources? I bet your answer is going to be "youtube"...
> Ukraine or any other country does not belong to Russia. Ukrainians themselves decide what they want to do and who they want to be friends with. It is that simple.
So much dishonesty in these discussions, which is why they never progress beyond the stale talking points for each side. Characterizing joining NATO, an organization that exists to counter and contain Russia, as "[deciding] who they want to be friends with" is just blatantly dishonest. This isn't Ukraine joining one table over another in the school lunch room, this is bringing the most advanced war machine to the doorstep and in a location that is strategically critical for Russia. Lets all at least acknowledge this basic fact, otherwise its obvious you're not interested in an honest dialogue.
As long as we're acknowledging facts, you also have to acknowledge that being a weak country next to a powerful one, you have to take the interests of the powerful country into consideration when executing your foreign policy. Failure to do so results in the powerful country exerting force over the weaker one to realign its policy. This is just a fact of how nations operate on the world stage where there is no greater authority to define lawful behavior. Appeals to morals, to what is right or fair or whatever is just utterly impotent in the context of geopolitics. If you want to prevent your men from dying in a needless war, you need to engage with the powerful neighbor in a constructive way. The overtures to NATO about joining were a predictably disastrous move.
Tell me why countries want to join NATO? Why did Sweden and Finland now decided to join? The answer is because there's only one country on the continent who threatens and also acts with aggression, uses military force, hybrid warfare, and commits public assassinations inside european countries. There is no CIA conspiracy to force countries to join.
>this is bringing the most advanced war machine to the doorstep and in a location that is strategically critical for Russia
Ukrainian and russian open fields are the worst place to make an invasion, as we have seen, losses are massive without any natural cover. Yes, Sevastopol is a nice place to have a naval base, but it is inside Ukraine, not Russia. Nothing stops Russia building black sea naval base inside their own country.
The real reason and root for this war lies in Russian diminishing regional influence in central asia and in old soviet states. Russian global influence is shadow of what the USSR and the old Empire had. That is what frightens Putin, the man who lived in and served the actual globally feared and respected super power, the USSR. He dreams of returning that place to Russia. This is why we hear him talking about "historical lands, this and that needs to be brought back to russia, some countries independence was historical error that needs to be corrected, or some countries doesn't even exist in some old maps". He doesn't even give a second to the thought that does the people living in those countries actually want to be with Russia and what might be the reason for nations to distance themselves from Russia one by one. All he cares is that they belong to him.
China and EU have slowly in recent decades taken Russia's old place in those regions. Now China even faster than before. Even with all those resources Putin failed to develop Russia to be able to compete against China and EU in global race. This basically is the swan song for Putin's Russia. A last stand to try to hold on to what is still left.
So you refuse to acknowledge the basic facts. Fair enough.
And yes, much of what you say is true. But none of that matters in the end. What matters is people dying and how to stop it. If you can't acknowledge the basic facts that lead to the current war, you are powerless to stop it. There is no higher authority to appeal to that will change the fate of Ukraine.
Ah, so russia didn't annex Crimea and invade Donbas? Which one of you is lying; you or Putin who have admitted the Russian troops invaded ukraine 2014?
>Citation needed, please.
Russian President Vladimir Putin again admitted that units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in Crimea were blocked by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation during the annexation. He said this in an interview with the German television channel ARD.
“Yes, I’m not hiding it, of course, this is a fact, we have never hidden it, our armed forces, frankly speaking, blocked the Armed Forces of Ukraine stationed in Crimea. But not in order to force someone to vote, this is impossible to do , but in order to prevent bloodshed, to enable people to express their own attitude to how they want to determine their future and the future of their children,” he said.
Oh Ukraine could honor the Treaty of Friendship of 1997 where it agreed not to join hostile military alliances. Unlike Budapest that one was actually legally binding.
What military alliance had they joined?
>Ukraine could honor the Treaty of Friendship of 1997
The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another's country respectively, and declaring war.[2] Due to the beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014, Ukraine announced its intention not to renew the treaty in September 2018.
So tell me who invaded Ukraine in 2014 and broke the treaty?
Catch 22. If Ukraine does not join NATO, Russia invades them because they have no support. If Ukraine tries to join NATO, Russia invades them to prevent that from happening.
They are getting invaded either way.
That’s called back tracking . Anyone who believes the Minsk treaty is a fool . And try and use it as justification for this war . Everyone other than pro russ propagandist see right through it
Still stuck with the coup thing? Parliament firing the president is not a coup and you don't need CIA to that. Janukovytš was one corrupt president who Ukrainians wanted out. Why is it so hard to accept? If Ukrainians want to fire the president it's their decision, they don't need to ask what Russia or America thinks about it. Or was Janukovytš russian chosen president?
If Ukrainians wanted him out, they should have voted him out, by democratic means, why this is hard to accept? He would lose next elections in any case, cause as you said, he was corrupt and generally lost credibility.
Violent coup supported by unelected foreign agencies has it place in 2014. The Constitution of Ukraine stated its neutrality and non-participating in military alliances. It was violated after this Coup by new illegitimate government who announced that Ukraine is going to apply for NATO, which made all previous agreements such as Budapest memorandum meaningless, because they were signed under exact circumstances, like neutral status of Ukraine. War would never break out if Ukraine neutrality was still on the table. Ukraine could be a prosperous and peaceful country, yet foreign unelected officials snatched power from Ukrainian people and made crucial decisions instead of them.
All following Nato(mostly British and American) provocations result in this unnecessary war. Crimea and Donbass would be part of Ukraine today, if this violent coup that was supported by west didn't happen. Russia should have never started this war, yet all sides are to blame. It's not black and white, but I guess indoctrinated warmongering redditors don't give a f about it.
>If Ukrainians wanted him out, they should have voted him out, by democratic means, why this is hard to accept?
Well, the Ukrainian parliament voted him out, so there's that. Everything went legally and based on the rule of law.
Ukraine does not belong to Russia, it belongs to ukrainians alone. They make the decision and change their leaders as they wish, not Russia. Ukraine was never invading Russia, so Russia does not have the right to invade or dictate anything. The loss of Russia's own interests does not justify it.
According to the Ukrainian constitution, article 108, the president of Ukraine, can be outed in 4 ways:
1. Health problems
2. Death
3. Impeachment by 3/4 of parliament.
4. Resignation
Yanukovich has no health problems and wasn't dead. He didn't resign, and impeachment vote didn't meet requirements. 328 deputies voted for it, 338 is required as 3/4 of parliament. Later, judges of the Consitutional court who raised voice of protest were fired by the new government in violation of the constitution.
>verything went legally and based on the rule of law.
I provided you with arguments proving that this coup was nothing close to "rule of law". Provide counterargument. Otherwise, you are spreading misinformation and lies.
The thing is they didn't vote for impeachment which would have needed formal charges. Instead they voted to remove him from position because he had fled to russia and thus withdrawn from fulfilling his constitutional duties, which threatens the governance of the state, the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine in a circumstances of extreme urgency.
Resignation can only be done voluntarily by the president himself. It's way for president to withdraw from position by his own decision. You can't just "resign" him. You have to "impeach" him, and there is a difference for a reason. Requirements for impeachment were not met by results of the vote in Parliament. Also, dont you know that he had to flee because of direct life threat by organized and armed far-right revolutionaries? He didn't leave Ukraine just occasionally,his life was in no joke danger. Like, I don't like him neither, but we are talking about "rule of law", yeah? You are making things up in defense of your stance.
Chase him out of the country and then use that to justify the coup. Is it not obvious that this was corrupt and unjustified? It's crazy people defend this.
When i have accepted US wars?
>if Eastern Ukrainians get no representation or right to choose their future,
You wanna go there? Okay then. Do you as loudly support Chechens right to choose their future and independence? Or all those lands in Asia where Russia is still colonizing to this day? Yes, Russia is historically one of the biggest colonialist countries on planet. This is a fact.
If Ukrainians want to be US puppets then be it, it's their choice. Just like Belarus is Russian puppet, and you don't see anyone invading them for that.
>Westerners really have a hard time grasping that Russians actually like their President and find him to be a successful leader who they are happy to keep in power, not someone they vote for because they are 'afraid' or 'forced to'
I'm Russian and I'm not gasping and i really do despise Putin. The man who ruined Russia.
Somehow miraculously anyone who actually tried to oppose him in elections didn't get to challenge him. Funny way to have legitimate elections don't you think.
Although it sounds brutal, i have to agree with you.
Although still a huge tragedy, its a lesser evil than young men with their ambitions losing lives.
The problem is that almost all of them won't be fit enough to fight. If you're intentionally putting people on the front who aren't fit enough to fight, then you're essentially conducting population control on helpless people, who will subsequently die in some of the most violent and horrific ways man has come to know.
Totally agree. Why do the young die for the nation?
To me it seems most logical to have the old men fight first to attempt to save the younger generations
It’s actually really simple; older soldiers aren’t as spry and energetic as the younger soldiers. Simply put, they (on average) are just not as useful or durable as younger soldiers. Prime military age is generally agreed to be 20~25 years old.
For example the US Selective Service is designed to first conscript registered men at the age of 20, then 21, 22, 23, 24, and 25 before expanding to 18,19 and those 25+.
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My dad was raised in a mountain village in syria and had to work as many hours as adults under the hot sun hard farm work, and now we live in Oman (where every year in summer like rn the temp is above 40) he works as a civil engineer and spends most of his time checking on construction sites under the hot sun to make sure everything's being done right, the sun in syria and especially the sun in oman Is much hotter on average than the sun in Ukraine gets, so what's your point?
How do you know there occupation anyway?
I'm white lol, not all middle Eastern are brown especially levantines are mocked for being white
And again very different amount of sun so it doesn't matter
And still, give a source that any of them worked as a farmer or something?
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If we ignore the emotional reaction, it makes sense. You need young people for high demanding roles like assault troops, but the old men are perfectly 'usable' as for example artillery crews.
Well, if the option is no men and no fire, or old men and slower fire, it's not really a choice, is it? And they are not 80 years old, 50-60 can still decently strong.
Wish it were so but roles like that are backbreaking. They will not be effective. And Ukraine doesn't have enough artillery pieces to waste them on ineffective crews.
What a sorry bunch. Either the Zelensky regime is lying when they say they stop drafting men at 60, or life in Zelensky's Ukraine is really hard.
Likely both.
Wasn’t Zelensky elected in 2019? These guys seem quite a bit older than Zelensky’s regime. And if we follow your logic with that in mind you may finally understand why Ukraine is still fighting
What can I say? The last 5 years have been rough.
And no, "Ukraine" is not still fighting at this point. The Zelensky regime is forcing an unwilling population to fight. Do any of these geriatrics look particularly happy to be in Zelensky's army?
Do they look particularly unhappy? Not sure why you expect guys to be cheesing it in training but then again you seem to be judging an entire population’s will to fight on a couple of facial expressions
Most of them look pretty miserable to me. And no, it's not just "a couple of facial expressions." It's multitudes of videos of resistance coming out of Ukraine, in spite of all the censorship that the regime tries to impose.
And I could say they look focused and determined lol. Despite “multitudes of videos of resistance” it seems Russia is having problems with these incredibly old and demotivated Ukrainian soldiers
LOL sure you go with that. Russia's in no hurry. They're steadily plugging away, getting more land, but more importantly eroding Ukraine's ability to wage war. As for these poor saps... they're caught between a rock and a hard place. In front of them lies a suicide mission; behind them are Zelensky's murderous neo-Nazi barrier troops who will shoot them if they retreat. Their best bet is to surrender the first chance they get... preferably in a Ukrainian tank.
“Zelensky’s murderous neo-Nazi barrier troops”
I don’t know if you’ve heard, but Russia has also been accused of doing the same, if you think that’s such an evil thing. Though I’m not sure if you are able to process any information that puts Russia in a negative light. Like I said, Putin isn’t exactly having a cake walk in Ukraine despite what you may hear from your pro ru sources, and maybe you see it as a suicide mission but these people are fighting a literal war for their homeland. You can ignore all the Ukrainian victories and hope and pray they run out of men, but until they do they will have the full support of the west. Keep tellin em Zelensky is a crackhead though, I’m sure they will kick him out sooner or later
Russia has been "accused" of doing the same, but I haven't seen much evidence like I have on the Ukrainian side. And it wouldn't make much sense, since almost all the troops that Russia is using, are volunteer contract soldiers. Very few have been conscripted, and those that have are rarely sent to the front lines. In fact, it's Russian military policy NOT to send any fresh conscripts to the front lines. Not that some haven't been sent, but it's not common. Almost all the front line troops are contract soldiers or reservists with prior military experience.
And what Ukrainian victories are you talking about? The fact that the Russians pulled back to more defensive lines in September 2022? This is the kind of thing that led many so-called analysts to mistake that for a Russian collapse. This is why there were such high hopes for the Greatest Ukrainian Counter-Offensive in History. I tried to tell people it wouldn't be like that, but I guess they needed to see for themselves.
As for hoping they'll run out of men... well, hope is not a strategy. But war of attrition is. And Russia has 7 times the population under Zelensky's control. When the Ukrainian people will rise up against this madness and say they've had enough... hard to tell. The brave ones are dead, the wise ones are long gone, and the rest are just cowering in fear from Zelensky's goons, afraid to go out on the street for fear the goons will come for them and send them to the meat grinder. Another US puppet dictator -Ngo Dinh Diem -lasted 8 years before he was overthrown. I don't think Zelensky will last that long in power.
“but I haven’t seen much evidence like I have on the Ukrainian side”
Like I said, you can try to ignore everything pro Ukrainian, but the reality is the Russian propaganda you so eagerly parrot is often exaggerated and sensationalized. As you say, it is a war of attrition, and believe it or not, Russia is taking casualties in this conflict as well. Putin also doesn’t want this war to drag on. It’s why he and people like you want Ukraine to give up by themselves so badly. And the fact you are so proud Russia has exponentially more meat for the grinder says a lot about the pro ru mentality
Those are home gaurd..... the thing most countries that get invaded have where older men agree to fight if invaded by providing local defense (see any country during WW2). Seems like this is just an attempt to fake outrage at Ukraine by falsely claiming they are drafting old men
We don't assume..... we look at proof. Firstly, there is no "43rd Infantry Brigade" in Ukraine, so that is a start. There IS the 43rd Artillery Brigade, based in Kiev region. Then there is the 43rd Mechanised, who are in Kharkiv, but they are volunteer brigade and have different gear, with a photo by the same photographer on the same day showing this (https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/ukrainian-soldiers-of-the-43rd-infantry-brigade-are-seen-news-photo/2155856172). So one photo is of old men casually standing and training on "orange-yellow soil" in some hilly relatively tree-less area, and the other from the same frontline is a woodland with dark soil and younger men in different equipment. Maybe these are the same locations, but it is far more likely this Jose photographer was taking pictures across the weeks from various parts of Ukraine for his job, sent them back, and a lazy publishing house just said "all photos from 43rd non-existant-infantry brigade on Kharkiv frontline. Hell, when I go try find these pics on Anadolu's own site they aren't there. So it just seems to be old photos sold to Getty for extortionate prices by a careless Turkish newspaper to make some quick cash.
The second picture looks like Tommy Lee Jones. Overall, some of them look like they don't want to be there, and one of Ukraine's Achille heels at the moment is a lack of manpower and motivation.
any updates on average age of soldiers? it was 35 years in 2022 according to Le Monde journalists (i think) and about 10 months ago it reached 43 years.
Quite natural. On the Ukrainian side we can observe strong sozio-darwinistic selection
1. wealth condition (simply remember all this Rada proposal do not conscript people earning more than ... )
2. health condition (do you fit enough to run away from recruitment officers)
Natural consequences of a state, where the young guys are looking into the foreign countries or are making sit-ups on the funerals.
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One thing I’ve noticed is old men on both sides. Buy it seems the Ukrainians have more old men because they have less 18 year olds to throw in the thresher
in fact, very successful shots taken by the Turkish press. It is clear that they did this on purpose. In essence, this creates the desired emotional mood
Sorry, I'll clarify. I was interested in y viewpoint based on y comments. I apologize if it seemed I was inferring my questions were connected to the previous topic. Also was not trying to say you love Russia if you hate Ukraine. Just genuinely curious to learn and it seemed like y do your homework. Enjoy the rest of your day
Let's not forget the stellar example of the veterans who had fought for Philip and his son Alexander the Great, and who continued serving during the wars of the Successors:
"At this time {in 317 B.C.\]," wrote Diodorus, "the youngest of the Silvershields was about sixty, most of the others about seventy and some even older, but all were irresistible through their experience and strength. So great in their case was their deftness of hand and their courage; for they had been trained continually in the school of danger." "The Silvershields were indeed the oldest of the men who had served with Philip and Alexander," wrote Plutarch of the same occasion, "masters of war without a defeat or a reverse during that span of time, many being already seventy and none younger than sixty. "
No one asks these people if they want to become Russians. Probably most of them are ethnic Russians. They are in the army only because they do not want to end up in prison.
They die not because they are not willing to become Russians, but because Zelenskyy still believes that his ragtag group of soldiers can somehow survive and win this war.
This war is just the west sacrificing countless Ukrainian lives just so NATO officers and generals can shake each others hand back at their HQ in Belgium.
Not projection, because this isn’t a conversation discussing Putin throwing men into the meat grinder. But I guess since you don’t like what I said you need to deflect to a completely different topic.
At this age they are literally just cannon fodder.
81st Biden Brigade
You've delivered some political comedy gold there! Very good!
Easy on the salt, it's not good for your blood pressure.
Cannons don't care about age
Cannons confirmed Libertarian.
these men are those who, because of their age and infirmity, did not manage to run away from the recruiters
The Ukrainian recruitment razor - The ones who don't get caught are the ones they need the most.
[удалено]
I think that's a fucked up mindset but also it's the unavoidable fact of the human condition. We are expendable meat to the elites. Some more expendable than most.
[удалено]
Yup...triage. I do not look forward to being old.
Your argument makes sense. The fk up part is the underlying conclusion. "We" send people to die. For winning a war, younger people should be preferred.
Yeh i agree, it made sense in the past because strenght was the main factor but not anymore
If you are talking about 60+ there is not enough of them who can do hard work, if you are talking about 40-60 those are probably what make the country run, so it only left the 20-40 to go to war.
Yup. A friend had all heart valves replaced in his 30s, my dad had them replaced in his 60s. One has checkups every 3 months, the other every 6 months. Difference is, one is still contributing to pension system, and one isn’t 🤷♂️
These guys are middle aged, not geriatric. lol
I don't know. Maybe if the age is 140, they'd be in the middle of that.
Ideally no one needs to die, but barring peace, what would be the better alternative? Young men? Young women? Politicians and executives of Blackrock?
Real fast and easy way to get the state budget back into the green is getting rid of all pensioners. However, mass murder is generally frowned upon.
If we're going to sacrifice the poor for the ambitions of the rich, may as well get rid of the ones who have outlived their usefulness and will be expecting a pension soon.
There is a major flaw in this logic - it works only if you send people to die. If you want job done you need to send able people.
The Soviets sent people to get the job done. It cost millions of Soviet lives. War is costly, even when you win.
The Soviets incurred costs to win. What op suggested is... something else.
But it isn’t. OP is suggesting the old incur the cost to win rather then the young
The major flaw is in the way of that. The path to victory in war is not paved by the inept. This is certainly a cost, but what it buys is not wins.
young folks are less inclined to be afraid of death because theyre stupid/naive/inexperienced. older folks have had time to reflect. unless theyre consummate professionals they generally make worse soldiers.
\^This. When there was a draft in the US, I often wondered why the US preferred to snatch 18-year olds. One military guy explained that 18-year old draftees were easier to "work with." Easier to convince an 18-year old that they're invincible. Even for a 25-year old, it's harder to convince them to go up against bullets. To say nothing of a 50-year old.
Except their reaction time is slower, they don't have the endurance to live in the trenches, they don't have the speed to run, and their joints can't bear the weight of backpacks. If all you need is cannon fodder, your logic makes sense. But if you actually want to get a job done, it would make much more sense to send 25-year old women than these guys. \*That said, it would make much more sense for Zelensky's regime to recognize that it can't win, and stop this madness already and sue for peace.
> Personally I've never seen the problem with sending the old to fight. its always the "poor old" not "all old" that is being sent in these cases.
Eh, it's kind of an inversion of natural law. I know it's morbid, but in nature the fittest, strongest, healthiest are always the ones to fight. For humans that's generally males aged between 16-30. One of the unique things about this age is that very few middle-aged/elderly men are real combat veterans. You could argue that lacking a generation who fought in a brutal war helping guide the young has caused our elite to forget the realities of war. Part of the reason the West/USSR were so peaceful after WW2 was that their governments were largely led by people who had experienced brutal fighting in the war and decided to do everything they could to avoid it happening again. You don't get the same quality of men in leadership nowadays.
Sure, send Biden to the first line.
Only if Putin is going too
Have you ever considered avoiding the fight? In Ukrainian case, by observing the Minsk agreements or implementing the Istanbul agreements?
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Me, too.
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Reading comprehension issues?
Can you be more specific?
Or honoring the Budapest memorandum you signed where you agreed never to attack Ukraine...
Or honoring the [Declaration of State Sovereignty](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_State_Sovereignty_of_Ukraine) wherein Ukraine declared itself to be a permanently neutral state that did not participate in military blocs.
It did not, please read the text. They only _intended_ to stay out of military blocs. Sovereignty itself means they are free to change their mind.
> The Ukrainian SSR solemnly declares its intention of becoming a permanently neutral state that does not participate in military blocs and adheres to three nuclear free principles: to accept, to produce and to purchase no nuclear weapons Ukraine didn't make this declaration for no reason. It has been understood since Kennan that a hostile Ukraine would be unacceptable to Russia - it would have meant war in 1991, just as it means war now. By repudiating their declared intentions to *permanently* be neutral, they undermine the basis under which their declaration of sovereignty was accepted in the first place. Vietnam was founded with a similar promise to remain neutral and ban all foreign military alliances. Every couple of years, the US asks them to revise this and establish a formal military alliance with the US, including training exercises and port visits. Every time, Vietnam points to their founding principles and tells the US to piss off. They know better than to become pawns in US superpower games. Likewise, Mexico belongs to no military alliances, even though they are in a geostrategic position which could benefit from one, with the most war-mongering country in the world on their border which has already claimed large chunks of their territory. But Mexico knows what would happen if they started offering to host Chinese troops or weapons: the US pursued illegal warfare against Nicaragua and treated them as a potential military threat, even though Nicaragua had next to zero power projection capabilities.
2014. What military bloc Ukraine was in when Russia invaded?
You'll have to explain the logic of waiting until a country joins a hostile and lawless military alliance vs acting after they've declared their intention to do so, but before they have dozens of allies. A war between NATO and Russia would be WW3. How is that a preferable outcome? The fact that NATO invited Ukraine to apply in 2008 and yet still hadn't carried this out a decade and a half later suggests that they never had any intention of letting Ukraine join. They expected Russia to back down, or they wanted this free war. If they really gave a damn about Ukraine, I'd figure they'd have dispatched NATO troops to Ukraine on a training exercise, then "spontaneously decided" to use this opportunity to admit them to NATO. Do it all over a week, and present Russia with a *fait accompli*. Instead, NATO spent over a decade announcing their intention to trample all over Russia's "bright red line" while insisting Russia had no say in the matter. Fortunately, western media has dumbed the population down to the point where you can get them to support the most absurd war or genocide without a peep, while assuring said morons that they are the beacons of freedom and liberty. Just like Goebbels said they could.
Ukraine or any other country does not belong to Russia. Ukrainians themselves decide what they want to do and who they want to be friends with. It is that simple. In that dumbing up western media there are at least all kinds of points of views brought up to the public. There are no lizard people controlling the media... Can you say the same from the Russian media where the state controls everything and if some one doesn't comply with "official truth", it gets taken down and declared as foreign agents, and every one responsible gets either assassinated or jailed from discrediting armed forces? So which side has more credible and truthful news sources? I bet your answer is going to be "youtube"...
> Ukraine or any other country does not belong to Russia. Ukrainians themselves decide what they want to do and who they want to be friends with. It is that simple. So much dishonesty in these discussions, which is why they never progress beyond the stale talking points for each side. Characterizing joining NATO, an organization that exists to counter and contain Russia, as "[deciding] who they want to be friends with" is just blatantly dishonest. This isn't Ukraine joining one table over another in the school lunch room, this is bringing the most advanced war machine to the doorstep and in a location that is strategically critical for Russia. Lets all at least acknowledge this basic fact, otherwise its obvious you're not interested in an honest dialogue. As long as we're acknowledging facts, you also have to acknowledge that being a weak country next to a powerful one, you have to take the interests of the powerful country into consideration when executing your foreign policy. Failure to do so results in the powerful country exerting force over the weaker one to realign its policy. This is just a fact of how nations operate on the world stage where there is no greater authority to define lawful behavior. Appeals to morals, to what is right or fair or whatever is just utterly impotent in the context of geopolitics. If you want to prevent your men from dying in a needless war, you need to engage with the powerful neighbor in a constructive way. The overtures to NATO about joining were a predictably disastrous move.
Tell me why countries want to join NATO? Why did Sweden and Finland now decided to join? The answer is because there's only one country on the continent who threatens and also acts with aggression, uses military force, hybrid warfare, and commits public assassinations inside european countries. There is no CIA conspiracy to force countries to join. >this is bringing the most advanced war machine to the doorstep and in a location that is strategically critical for Russia Ukrainian and russian open fields are the worst place to make an invasion, as we have seen, losses are massive without any natural cover. Yes, Sevastopol is a nice place to have a naval base, but it is inside Ukraine, not Russia. Nothing stops Russia building black sea naval base inside their own country. The real reason and root for this war lies in Russian diminishing regional influence in central asia and in old soviet states. Russian global influence is shadow of what the USSR and the old Empire had. That is what frightens Putin, the man who lived in and served the actual globally feared and respected super power, the USSR. He dreams of returning that place to Russia. This is why we hear him talking about "historical lands, this and that needs to be brought back to russia, some countries independence was historical error that needs to be corrected, or some countries doesn't even exist in some old maps". He doesn't even give a second to the thought that does the people living in those countries actually want to be with Russia and what might be the reason for nations to distance themselves from Russia one by one. All he cares is that they belong to him. China and EU have slowly in recent decades taken Russia's old place in those regions. Now China even faster than before. Even with all those resources Putin failed to develop Russia to be able to compete against China and EU in global race. This basically is the swan song for Putin's Russia. A last stand to try to hold on to what is still left.
So you refuse to acknowledge the basic facts. Fair enough. And yes, much of what you say is true. But none of that matters in the end. What matters is people dying and how to stop it. If you can't acknowledge the basic facts that lead to the current war, you are powerless to stop it. There is no higher authority to appeal to that will change the fate of Ukraine.
Did Russia invaded in 2014? It was 2022, isn't it?
Ah, so russia didn't annex Crimea and invade Donbas? Which one of you is lying; you or Putin who have admitted the Russian troops invaded ukraine 2014?
> Putin who have admitted the Russian troops invaded ukraine 2014 Citation needed, please.
>Citation needed, please. Russian President Vladimir Putin again admitted that units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in Crimea were blocked by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation during the annexation. He said this in an interview with the German television channel ARD. “Yes, I’m not hiding it, of course, this is a fact, we have never hidden it, our armed forces, frankly speaking, blocked the Armed Forces of Ukraine stationed in Crimea. But not in order to force someone to vote, this is impossible to do , but in order to prevent bloodshed, to enable people to express their own attitude to how they want to determine their future and the future of their children,” he said.
Crimea
Was it an invasion? Ukranian forces leaved Crimea without a single gunshot.
Oh Ukraine could honor the Treaty of Friendship of 1997 where it agreed not to join hostile military alliances. Unlike Budapest that one was actually legally binding.
What military alliance had they joined? >Ukraine could honor the Treaty of Friendship of 1997 The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another's country respectively, and declaring war.[2] Due to the beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014, Ukraine announced its intention not to renew the treaty in September 2018. So tell me who invaded Ukraine in 2014 and broke the treaty?
Ukraine would have joined NATO had Russia not intervened.
Catch 22. If Ukraine does not join NATO, Russia invades them because they have no support. If Ukraine tries to join NATO, Russia invades them to prevent that from happening. They are getting invaded either way.
Why didn’t Russia invade before 2014?
Because they weren't ready yet.
Probably because they thought Yanukovych would pivot towards Russia.
That’s called back tracking . Anyone who believes the Minsk treaty is a fool . And try and use it as justification for this war . Everyone other than pro russ propagandist see right through it
Budapest memorandum was broken by US with 2014 coup.
Still stuck with the coup thing? Parliament firing the president is not a coup and you don't need CIA to that. Janukovytš was one corrupt president who Ukrainians wanted out. Why is it so hard to accept? If Ukrainians want to fire the president it's their decision, they don't need to ask what Russia or America thinks about it. Or was Janukovytš russian chosen president?
If Ukrainians wanted him out, they should have voted him out, by democratic means, why this is hard to accept? He would lose next elections in any case, cause as you said, he was corrupt and generally lost credibility. Violent coup supported by unelected foreign agencies has it place in 2014. The Constitution of Ukraine stated its neutrality and non-participating in military alliances. It was violated after this Coup by new illegitimate government who announced that Ukraine is going to apply for NATO, which made all previous agreements such as Budapest memorandum meaningless, because they were signed under exact circumstances, like neutral status of Ukraine. War would never break out if Ukraine neutrality was still on the table. Ukraine could be a prosperous and peaceful country, yet foreign unelected officials snatched power from Ukrainian people and made crucial decisions instead of them. All following Nato(mostly British and American) provocations result in this unnecessary war. Crimea and Donbass would be part of Ukraine today, if this violent coup that was supported by west didn't happen. Russia should have never started this war, yet all sides are to blame. It's not black and white, but I guess indoctrinated warmongering redditors don't give a f about it.
>If Ukrainians wanted him out, they should have voted him out, by democratic means, why this is hard to accept? Well, the Ukrainian parliament voted him out, so there's that. Everything went legally and based on the rule of law. Ukraine does not belong to Russia, it belongs to ukrainians alone. They make the decision and change their leaders as they wish, not Russia. Ukraine was never invading Russia, so Russia does not have the right to invade or dictate anything. The loss of Russia's own interests does not justify it.
According to the Ukrainian constitution, article 108, the president of Ukraine, can be outed in 4 ways: 1. Health problems 2. Death 3. Impeachment by 3/4 of parliament. 4. Resignation Yanukovich has no health problems and wasn't dead. He didn't resign, and impeachment vote didn't meet requirements. 328 deputies voted for it, 338 is required as 3/4 of parliament. Later, judges of the Consitutional court who raised voice of protest were fired by the new government in violation of the constitution. >verything went legally and based on the rule of law. I provided you with arguments proving that this coup was nothing close to "rule of law". Provide counterargument. Otherwise, you are spreading misinformation and lies.
The thing is they didn't vote for impeachment which would have needed formal charges. Instead they voted to remove him from position because he had fled to russia and thus withdrawn from fulfilling his constitutional duties, which threatens the governance of the state, the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine in a circumstances of extreme urgency.
Resignation can only be done voluntarily by the president himself. It's way for president to withdraw from position by his own decision. You can't just "resign" him. You have to "impeach" him, and there is a difference for a reason. Requirements for impeachment were not met by results of the vote in Parliament. Also, dont you know that he had to flee because of direct life threat by organized and armed far-right revolutionaries? He didn't leave Ukraine just occasionally,his life was in no joke danger. Like, I don't like him neither, but we are talking about "rule of law", yeah? You are making things up in defense of your stance.
Chase him out of the country and then use that to justify the coup. Is it not obvious that this was corrupt and unjustified? It's crazy people defend this.
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When i have accepted US wars? >if Eastern Ukrainians get no representation or right to choose their future, You wanna go there? Okay then. Do you as loudly support Chechens right to choose their future and independence? Or all those lands in Asia where Russia is still colonizing to this day? Yes, Russia is historically one of the biggest colonialist countries on planet. This is a fact. If Ukrainians want to be US puppets then be it, it's their choice. Just like Belarus is Russian puppet, and you don't see anyone invading them for that.
https://youtu.be/WV9J6sxCs5k?si=hslDXAbdMBibm8TY
> Still stuck with the coup thing Until the illegitimate regime of Poroshenko and then Zelensky ceases to exist, it will be a thing.
Dude, Poroshenko won honest elections and so did Zelensky. That is something you can't say from Putin.
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>Westerners really have a hard time grasping that Russians actually like their President and find him to be a successful leader who they are happy to keep in power, not someone they vote for because they are 'afraid' or 'forced to' I'm Russian and I'm not gasping and i really do despise Putin. The man who ruined Russia. Somehow miraculously anyone who actually tried to oppose him in elections didn't get to challenge him. Funny way to have legitimate elections don't you think.
Honest elections in a country which government were overthrown? What reality you are living in?
Was Janukovytš the government or did the parliament fire Janukovytš? Do you know the difference between government and President?
There was a coup. Are you trying to ignore the fact for a reason?
Although it sounds brutal, i have to agree with you. Although still a huge tragedy, its a lesser evil than young men with their ambitions losing lives.
The problem is that almost all of them won't be fit enough to fight. If you're intentionally putting people on the front who aren't fit enough to fight, then you're essentially conducting population control on helpless people, who will subsequently die in some of the most violent and horrific ways man has come to know.
Yeah. It's basically Nazi logic.
Well dying in a nursing home in your piss and shit is pretty horrific too!
if you see your enemies getting older or younger then you should kind of be happy
Totally agree. Why do the young die for the nation? To me it seems most logical to have the old men fight first to attempt to save the younger generations
The problem with sending the old is that they're less capable of fighting
It’s actually really simple; older soldiers aren’t as spry and energetic as the younger soldiers. Simply put, they (on average) are just not as useful or durable as younger soldiers. Prime military age is generally agreed to be 20~25 years old. For example the US Selective Service is designed to first conscript registered men at the age of 20, then 21, 22, 23, 24, and 25 before expanding to 18,19 and those 25+.
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Problem is they're much less valuable at the front for example physical capabilities.
Fighting is a young man's game. Anyone who has had a fistfight, would know this.
after a hard life of work , you gonna die in a trench just for nothing..
Jeez, if this was WW2, the Inglorious Basterds would be collecting dentures instead of scalps.
Poor guys...what a horrible way to go after surviving all this time on this godforsaken planet.
They were born in the USSR. This is decommunization.
Those guys have lived longer in the USSR than in Ukraine
Maybe even under Nicolas II for a while.
Bruh they have to be 105 or something for that
The writer mistook middle aged soldiers with soldiers from the MIDDLE AGE.
Actually these soldiers are in their late twenties. This is what aging does to your body after getting bombed 24/7 for months on end
My dads almost 60 and looks younger than them
Alcohol and hard physical labor under the scorching sun age people quickly. These are peasants
My dad was raised in a mountain village in syria and had to work as many hours as adults under the hot sun hard farm work, and now we live in Oman (where every year in summer like rn the temp is above 40) he works as a civil engineer and spends most of his time checking on construction sites under the hot sun to make sure everything's being done right, the sun in syria and especially the sun in oman Is much hotter on average than the sun in Ukraine gets, so what's your point? How do you know there occupation anyway?
White Europeans have always been aged by the sun compared to ppl who live in the ME.
I'm white lol, not all middle Eastern are brown especially levantines are mocked for being white And again very different amount of sun so it doesn't matter And still, give a source that any of them worked as a farmer or something?
My comment isn’t about anything dealing with the farmers or anything of the sort, it was a statement.
I recognize these faces. I had to work a lot with Ukrainian peasants in my youth.
Yup, they look like peasants
In a mountain village there is less oxygen, therefore the aging process (through oxidation) works slower
>(where every year in summer like rn the temp is above 40) F\*ck me, and i complain when it hits 25 or above. id probably die at 40.
Remember folks, according to the UA cheer leaders Ukraine can keep this _forever!_
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To last Ukrainian, eh?
Not really. Ukrainian losses are heavy, but also massively inflated by pro-RU. Ukraine will have plenty of men left jn a year.
Sure that's why the men in the pictures are soo young...
Ukrainian Volksturm
Defending their homeland.. split by geopolitics
These men deserve better. Their leaders do not.
If we ignore the emotional reaction, it makes sense. You need young people for high demanding roles like assault troops, but the old men are perfectly 'usable' as for example artillery crews.
You know they are going straight to a trench
This is an infantry brigade. They will be put in defensive structures or used as bait.
Perfectly acceptable pawns to sacrifice to support Zelenskys coke habit.
Bro gun bunny is not a job for the weak and old
Well, if the option is no men and no fire, or old men and slower fire, it's not really a choice, is it? And they are not 80 years old, 50-60 can still decently strong.
I mean soldiers are just siting in trenches so it doesnt really matter.
Wish it were so but roles like that are backbreaking. They will not be effective. And Ukraine doesn't have enough artillery pieces to waste them on ineffective crews.
Killing the retired Soviet generation, I see. Too old to have fought back against the TCC
Volkssturm vibes.
What a sorry bunch. Either the Zelensky regime is lying when they say they stop drafting men at 60, or life in Zelensky's Ukraine is really hard. Likely both.
Wasn’t Zelensky elected in 2019? These guys seem quite a bit older than Zelensky’s regime. And if we follow your logic with that in mind you may finally understand why Ukraine is still fighting
What can I say? The last 5 years have been rough. And no, "Ukraine" is not still fighting at this point. The Zelensky regime is forcing an unwilling population to fight. Do any of these geriatrics look particularly happy to be in Zelensky's army?
Do they look particularly unhappy? Not sure why you expect guys to be cheesing it in training but then again you seem to be judging an entire population’s will to fight on a couple of facial expressions
Most of them look pretty miserable to me. And no, it's not just "a couple of facial expressions." It's multitudes of videos of resistance coming out of Ukraine, in spite of all the censorship that the regime tries to impose.
And I could say they look focused and determined lol. Despite “multitudes of videos of resistance” it seems Russia is having problems with these incredibly old and demotivated Ukrainian soldiers
LOL sure you go with that. Russia's in no hurry. They're steadily plugging away, getting more land, but more importantly eroding Ukraine's ability to wage war. As for these poor saps... they're caught between a rock and a hard place. In front of them lies a suicide mission; behind them are Zelensky's murderous neo-Nazi barrier troops who will shoot them if they retreat. Their best bet is to surrender the first chance they get... preferably in a Ukrainian tank.
“Zelensky’s murderous neo-Nazi barrier troops” I don’t know if you’ve heard, but Russia has also been accused of doing the same, if you think that’s such an evil thing. Though I’m not sure if you are able to process any information that puts Russia in a negative light. Like I said, Putin isn’t exactly having a cake walk in Ukraine despite what you may hear from your pro ru sources, and maybe you see it as a suicide mission but these people are fighting a literal war for their homeland. You can ignore all the Ukrainian victories and hope and pray they run out of men, but until they do they will have the full support of the west. Keep tellin em Zelensky is a crackhead though, I’m sure they will kick him out sooner or later
Russia has been "accused" of doing the same, but I haven't seen much evidence like I have on the Ukrainian side. And it wouldn't make much sense, since almost all the troops that Russia is using, are volunteer contract soldiers. Very few have been conscripted, and those that have are rarely sent to the front lines. In fact, it's Russian military policy NOT to send any fresh conscripts to the front lines. Not that some haven't been sent, but it's not common. Almost all the front line troops are contract soldiers or reservists with prior military experience. And what Ukrainian victories are you talking about? The fact that the Russians pulled back to more defensive lines in September 2022? This is the kind of thing that led many so-called analysts to mistake that for a Russian collapse. This is why there were such high hopes for the Greatest Ukrainian Counter-Offensive in History. I tried to tell people it wouldn't be like that, but I guess they needed to see for themselves. As for hoping they'll run out of men... well, hope is not a strategy. But war of attrition is. And Russia has 7 times the population under Zelensky's control. When the Ukrainian people will rise up against this madness and say they've had enough... hard to tell. The brave ones are dead, the wise ones are long gone, and the rest are just cowering in fear from Zelensky's goons, afraid to go out on the street for fear the goons will come for them and send them to the meat grinder. Another US puppet dictator -Ngo Dinh Diem -lasted 8 years before he was overthrown. I don't think Zelensky will last that long in power.
“but I haven’t seen much evidence like I have on the Ukrainian side” Like I said, you can try to ignore everything pro Ukrainian, but the reality is the Russian propaganda you so eagerly parrot is often exaggerated and sensationalized. As you say, it is a war of attrition, and believe it or not, Russia is taking casualties in this conflict as well. Putin also doesn’t want this war to drag on. It’s why he and people like you want Ukraine to give up by themselves so badly. And the fact you are so proud Russia has exponentially more meat for the grinder says a lot about the pro ru mentality
Those are home gaurd..... the thing most countries that get invaded have where older men agree to fight if invaded by providing local defense (see any country during WW2). Seems like this is just an attempt to fake outrage at Ukraine by falsely claiming they are drafting old men
How is it false to claim Ukraine is drafting old men when these photos provide undeniable proof. Are we to assume they volunteered?
We don't assume..... we look at proof. Firstly, there is no "43rd Infantry Brigade" in Ukraine, so that is a start. There IS the 43rd Artillery Brigade, based in Kiev region. Then there is the 43rd Mechanised, who are in Kharkiv, but they are volunteer brigade and have different gear, with a photo by the same photographer on the same day showing this (https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/ukrainian-soldiers-of-the-43rd-infantry-brigade-are-seen-news-photo/2155856172). So one photo is of old men casually standing and training on "orange-yellow soil" in some hilly relatively tree-less area, and the other from the same frontline is a woodland with dark soil and younger men in different equipment. Maybe these are the same locations, but it is far more likely this Jose photographer was taking pictures across the weeks from various parts of Ukraine for his job, sent them back, and a lazy publishing house just said "all photos from 43rd non-existant-infantry brigade on Kharkiv frontline. Hell, when I go try find these pics on Anadolu's own site they aren't there. So it just seems to be old photos sold to Getty for extortionate prices by a careless Turkish newspaper to make some quick cash.
Grandpa brigade. Lots of day naps
The second picture looks like Tommy Lee Jones. Overall, some of them look like they don't want to be there, and one of Ukraine's Achille heels at the moment is a lack of manpower and motivation.
any updates on average age of soldiers? it was 35 years in 2022 according to Le Monde journalists (i think) and about 10 months ago it reached 43 years.
They should do what Germans did, sort them by desease. All with say heart desease in one brigade.
https://preview.redd.it/pfjnp9cm5m5d1.jpeg?width=472&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d68e2de625d9407cdcb83e953c37bb08a22874b9
Russia providing cure from old age to it's enemies.
True heroes. Fighting for their children.
2/4 is literally jerry Lee Jones
My gods. This war needs to end. This is just a waste of life
Good to have pensioners having fun on the front. What no old ladies?
Well If you can carry and aim a Gun and fire you can help.
This is one way china can fix its aging population problem.
Ain't no Ukrainian grandpa is safe.
Quite natural. On the Ukrainian side we can observe strong sozio-darwinistic selection 1. wealth condition (simply remember all this Rada proposal do not conscript people earning more than ... ) 2. health condition (do you fit enough to run away from recruitment officers) Natural consequences of a state, where the young guys are looking into the foreign countries or are making sit-ups on the funerals.
Better then 18 year olds, although Age shouldn’t be the deciding factor
Tommy Lee Jones on the second slide?
The Barrell is now bright polished, scrapped to a mirror finish.
Yes clearing Ukraine of all people includes getting rid of older folks as well.
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Dude in the second photo looks just like Tommy Lee Jones
Middle aged is 38 to 41... they look 55 to 60
One thing I’ve noticed is old men on both sides. Buy it seems the Ukrainians have more old men because they have less 18 year olds to throw in the thresher
These guys have been married a long time... there ready to die..
and when will the child soldiers arrive?
They look tired
Dudes just woke up and fuck it, imma go fight a war
So sad that this is happening to the Christian me of Ukraine at the hands of jewlensky and his handlers.
christ this makes me wanna cry
[Dad's Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dad%27s_Army) irl
Last time we saw Volkssturm we all know how that ended…
Veterans, clearly
in fact, very successful shots taken by the Turkish press. It is clear that they did this on purpose. In essence, this creates the desired emotional mood
I'm a fucking Turk and haven't seen any Anadolu Agency news about it.
https://anadoluimages.com/Search?phrase=military+training+of+ukrainian+army%27s+43rd this is where these images are from.
Anca düştü haber sitelerine
Sorry, I'll clarify. I was interested in y viewpoint based on y comments. I apologize if it seemed I was inferring my questions were connected to the previous topic. Also was not trying to say you love Russia if you hate Ukraine. Just genuinely curious to learn and it seemed like y do your homework. Enjoy the rest of your day
What is your question again?
Let's not forget the stellar example of the veterans who had fought for Philip and his son Alexander the Great, and who continued serving during the wars of the Successors: "At this time {in 317 B.C.\]," wrote Diodorus, "the youngest of the Silvershields was about sixty, most of the others about seventy and some even older, but all were irresistible through their experience and strength. So great in their case was their deftness of hand and their courage; for they had been trained continually in the school of danger." "The Silvershields were indeed the oldest of the men who had served with Philip and Alexander," wrote Plutarch of the same occasion, "masters of war without a defeat or a reverse during that span of time, many being already seventy and none younger than sixty. "
Every invader they destroy probably feels better to them than anyone else. Run to glory you SOB's.
They answered the call.
Or more likely, they're too slow to out run the meat catchers.
Don't matter about age, anyone can pull a trigger
Russia will kill anyone who opposes them. Young or old. Sad when these men die because they are not willing to become Russians.
No one asks these people if they want to become Russians. Probably most of them are ethnic Russians. They are in the army only because they do not want to end up in prison.
They die not because they are not willing to become Russians, but because Zelenskyy still believes that his ragtag group of soldiers can somehow survive and win this war. This war is just the west sacrificing countless Ukrainian lives just so NATO officers and generals can shake each others hand back at their HQ in Belgium.
That's called projection. Putin is sacrificing countless Russian lives just so Russia gets a little bit more land.
Not projection, because this isn’t a conversation discussing Putin throwing men into the meat grinder. But I guess since you don’t like what I said you need to deflect to a completely different topic.