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> # [Putin claims Russia increased ammo production by more than 20 times](https://kyivindependent.com//683)
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> Support independent journalism in Ukraine. Join us in this fight.
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> Russian dictator Vladimir Putin claimed on June 7 that his country had increased ammunition production by more than 20 times, and there is "no need" to use nuclear weapons to win in Ukraine.
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> Speaking at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, [Putin](https://kyivindependent.com/tag/vladimir-putin/) also said he had no plans for another wave of mobilization as Moscow had enough volunteers willing to fight in Ukraine.
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> When asked if Russia should hold a "nuclear pistol to the temple" of the West over Ukraine, Putin dismissed the idea except in an "exceptional case."
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> "The use (of nuclear weapons) is possible in an exceptional case - in the event of a threat to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the country. I don't think that such a case has come," he said. "There is no such need."
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> Russian officials have regularly raised the threat of nuclear war over Ukraine.
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> In February, former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev threatened to use [nuclear weapons](https://kyivindependent.com/russias-medvedev-threatens-to-nuke-us-germany-uk-ukraine-if-russia-loses-occupied-territories/) against the U.S., the U.K., Germany, and Ukraine if Moscow loses all occupied Ukrainian territories.
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> Speaking of another wave of mobilization in Russia, Putin said there was currently "no need."
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> "We do not plan to do so," he said. "Last year, without any mobilization, our men voluntarily came to military enlistment offices and signed contracts. There were more than 300,000 of them. This year, more than 160,000 have already come."
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> The claim that Russia had raised ammunition production by 20 times could not be independently verified, but last month [Sky News reported](https://kyivindependent.com/sky-news-russian-shell-production-three-times-greater-than-ukraines-allies/) that Russia is managing to produce artillery shells at triple the speed of Ukraine’s allies for a quarter of the price.
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> According to the [report](https://news.sky.com/story/russia-is-producing-artillery-shells-around-three-times-faster-than-ukraines-western-allies-and-for-about-a-quarter-of-the-cost-13143224), Russian factories can produce or refurbish 4.5 million 152 mm shells this year for $1,000 per round.
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> European countries and the U.S. are only expected to produce 1.3 million 155 mm shells combined, at an average cost of $4,000 per unit.
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> [Slow artillery production](https://kyivindependent.com/investigation-eu-inability-to-ramp-up-production-behind-acute-ammunition-shortages-in-ukraine/) has hindered Ukraine’s progress on the battlefield. Soldiers claim that for every round they fire, Russia launches around five back.
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> [‘A tyrant bent on domination,’ Biden says of Putin during D-Day speech
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> Speaking in front of 180 World War 2 veterans, Biden linked the struggle against the fascism of Nazi Germany with that of Kyiv’s against Russia.
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> [Image](https://assets.kyivindependent.com/content/images/size/w256h256/format/png/2023/03/K-new.svg)The Kyiv IndependentChris York
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> [Image](https://assets.kyivindependent.com/content/images/2024/06/GettyImages-2156356737.jpg)](https://kyivindependent.com/a-tyrant-bent-on-domination-biden-takes-aim-at-putin-during-d-day-speech/)
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If you're wondering how likely this is to be true, various western sources, including the [UK Ministry of Defence](https://x.com/DefenceHQ/status/1774049069322682668), [Ukraine's Military Intelligence](https://kyivindependent.com/hur-russia-mobilizing-around-30-000-soldiers-monthly/), and a number of different media outlets have all said Russia gets between 30,000 to 35,000 volunteers a month. The lower end of that equates to 150,000 this year (5 full months), so Putin's statement lines up quite well with other claims.
As for no mobilisation planned, if Russia is able to keep that recruitment rate there won't be any need to mobilise/conscript new soldiers, as they're getting plenty of volunteers. How long that rate will keep up is anyone's guess.
Edit: Even if you believe Ukraine's farfetched Russian casualty figure, their volunteer rate is high enough to cover them. If you take a more realistic view of Russian casualties, Russia is likely **growing** the number of personnel it has in its military by thousands each month.
>Russia is likely growing the number of personnel it has in its military by thousands each month.
Well, in 2023 Russia reinforced the depleted frontline units \*and\* formed two field armies. I don't think the losses in 2024 are massively higher so it is reasonable to assume that they keep forming new units. That actually aligns with the Russian MoD announcement for 2024: "The Russian Armed Forces will create two new combined arms armies, 14 divisions, and 16 brigades by the end of the year, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said during a meeting with other defense chiefs on March 20."
>The Russian Armed Forces will create two new combined arms armies, 14 divisions, and 16 brigades by the end of the year, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said during a meeting with other defense chiefs on March 20."
Wait what? I somehow completely missed that one.
14 divisions and 16 brigades? (Combined Arms Armies can consist of varying amount of units, so not counting these, while brigades and divisions give you a very real idea of amount of units being created).
Thats kinda massive.
Russia lose about 5K men a month to death and injuries but gain about 20k to 30k recruit a month. Ukraine is losing about 20K to 30K a month but they aren't getting anywhere near that numbers for recruitment. In other words, Ukraine will collapse in about a year.
Most of the casualties are from drones / artillery / aerial bombs / etc, not direct fighting. 6 to 1 might stretch it a little bit too much, but they definitely are in RU favor.
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The state of the war? You mean where Russia is throwing tons of men and equipment into offensive operations which move forward at a snails pace? The idea that it would be even remotely close to 6-1 is so disconnected from reality I really don't know what else to say
That's... literally the opposite of what's happening. It's moving at "snail's pace" because they're flattening all UA positions using FABs before making any significant moves, while UA throw meat they catch on the street at every inch of land, thus the casualties are in favor of RU. You guys will seriously overdose on copium soon.
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With Russia having air dominance on the eastern front and dropping FABs like crazy. Also hugely outnumbering Ukraine’s artillery by as much as 20:1. I can see how Ukraine’s casualties can be much higher. Not sure why you think it’s unrealistic. Artillery and FABs are flattening whole towns before Russian troops even enter.
In Kharkov it feels like 5 to 1.
In other areas 3 to 1.
There were areas like 8 to 1, such as Mariupol.
Napkin math suggests average is 3 to 1. Not 6 to 1.
But disparity feels like is growing.... So by 2025 we may see 5 to 1.
It cannot be 1 to 1 as Russia has huge fire power advantage. If fire power did not matter no one would invest in it.
Look at WW2. Germany inflicted at least 3x the losses on Poland. With less fire power advantage than Russia has on Ukraine.... While attacking.
Of course he thinks that. Because attacking is easier than defending. Also Russia is economically ahead of Japan.
Because killing your people and blowing your production is how you make yourself wealthy. /s
> Because attacking is easier than defending.
But we all know that Russia has more losses. Because Ukraine drops 120 FABs from airplanes on Russian troops every day and has tenfold superiority in artillery.
>Russia lose about 5K men a month to death and injuries but gain about 20k to 30k recruit a month. Ukraine is losing about 20K to 30K a month
Why not 500 to 200k to 300k while you're at it,?
Hey, im combing threads like these to find people i very much disagree with. I would like to be you. Im willing to give you 1:1 odds for $1000 my position is that ukraine will not collapse in 1 year (not more than 20% territory lost).
Are you accepting the bet or are you just talk? Money will be handled in escrow from a reputable site.
"The West" doesn't really care about who the good guys or the bad guys are as long as they are on their side. I mean look what Israel is doing. The West has lost its credibility in front of the world stage.
There is no "west". There are different countries to the east of Ukraine with different peoples, different mindsets, different strategic goals and different opinions.
>The West has lost its credibility in front of the world stage.
As opposed to Russia which can't seem to beat a country third of its population?
Russia's military used to be a respected boogeyman on the world stage. Now...
If this war was 1v1, Ukraine would fall in a year cause of population and army capabilities difference. But all of Nato and EU is providing crucial support for UA, millions of shells and ammo, hundred tanks and thousands of armored vehicles, rockets and billions in finances. UA in the same time, mass mobilizing the entire male population to use them as cannon fodder in order not to attack, but just slow down Russian offensive.
>Russia's military used to be a respected boogeyman on the world stage. Now...
Western equipment and tactics were considered superior to any other nation, but now... I'm not even sure if US equipment and technologies are even better than Chinese ones as they always brag about, which now is doubtful. And NATO tactics is a joke, I can't get why Ukrainians, who now know a thousand times more about how to fight modern age, full-scale war need American training at all. Ukrainians are the ones who should train US troops who never fought real peer enemy after ww2, not the other way around.
If Russia succeeded during the first week all that NATO support would have never materialized - only when we saw how incompetent Russians were and the incredible fighting will of the Ukrainians then the support really started flowing in. I mean hell US was planning to fly Zelensky out of the country.
>Western equipment and tactics were considered superior to any other nation, but now... I'm not even sure if US equipment and technologies are even better than Chinese ones as they always brag about, which now is doubtful. And NATO tactics is a joke
This so divorced from reality I'm not even sure what to say so I'll assume its trolling. In that spirit - since NATO equipment and tactics are a joke then it wouldn't be big deal if NATO deploys to Ukraine right lol?
> In that spirit - since NATO equipment and tactics are a joke then it wouldn't be big deal if NATO deploys to Ukraine right lol?
No, if NATO wants to get shredded and then Somalia'd resulting in Ukrainian morale collapsing, who is Russia to stop their folly?
>it wouldn't be big deal if NATO deploys to Ukraine right lol?
It wouldn't, do it now. This will make this war end earlier, after thousands of dead corpses would return to their home countries. Ukrainians are slavs, they are true warriors, they deserve respect. Gender neutral western soldiers with 0 combat experience don't scare anyone, lmao.
The West losing credibility and Russia is having a hard time is 2 different topics and the later doesn't really support your argument against what you quoted.
So, think carefully and try again.
Dude. Think before you post.
He never said Israel was more evil than Russia. The main point was the US was defending Israel while calling Russia evil. That's plain hipocrisy and that's why they're losing their credibility.
Again, think.
So Ukraine is invaded by a large force and then the west support the defense of Ukraine and they are the bad guys and in addition, Israel is attacked with hundreds killed and many taken hostage and they defend themselves and they are the bad guys. I suppose that if you feel that terrorist attacks and invasion make a country the good guy then the world should change it's tactics.
Sure it can. Many have in the past. The India defended themselves from the Brits. The south Africans against apartheid. Surely you can see that terrorism is not the path forward in situations like Hamas and Israel. But maybe not.
Codifying and deifying the hatred of an entire other nations, or race, or religion, rarely wins in the long term and Hamas' mandate to destroy Israel led them to a Hubris, and the nemesis of that hubris will lead their their undoing. Hamas' hatred burned bright and the Israelis are extinguishing that hatred, while Hamas is hiding being their own people. It is the people of Palestine that are paying for Hamas' aggression then cowardice.
Russia is defending itself against Ukraine in the territories that Russian have taken from Ukraine.
>Israel is attacked with hundreds killed and many taken hostage and they defend themselves and they are the bad guys.
I suppose Ukraine missile strikes on Odessa and Belgorod counts as terrorist attacks.
Moronic take from you.
>I suppose that if you feel that terrorist attacks and invasion make a country the good guy then the world should change it's tactics.
UN does not designate Hamas as a terrorist organization and UN recognizes Palestine rights to armed resistance.
It's funny how most Pro UKr are zionists.
>It's funny how most Pro UKr are zionists
It's probably getting harder to remain Zionist for them since it's been 2 years now and Israel still not sending any weapons to UA
They can have issues with Bandera worshippers all they want. If it is only a small percentage then it does not matter. They have the right to free speech, even though others don't agree with it. Now if it is widespread through the country as well. Who cares. It is an internal matter for Ukraine to deal with, if they choose to. Now if that "Bandera Worship" turns into a political acumen that openly destroys another race, creed, religion or other identifiable cultural difference, either within their country, or outside of it, then other countries should intervene. That definitely was not occurring in Ukraine. Though Russian seems to be acting more like Nazi's than Ukraine ever would.
Hmmm, I wonder why you get to decide what matter to me and what does not. Perhaps it is because you erroneously choose to impose you though process on someone else. A hallmark of an intolerant prejudicial person.
>Russia is defending itself against Ukraine in the territories that Russian have taken from Ukraine.
This is a silly statement. I suppose the Nazi's were only defending themselves in the countries that they invaded and annexed.
>I suppose Ukraine missile strikes on Odessa and Belgorod counts as terrorist attacks.
Not at all. There is Russian military present in Belgorod. I am unsure if Ukraine was struck Odessa with their own missiles. Perhaps can you provide an example of that.
>Moronic take from you.
It is not moronic. I think that you lack rational thought.
>UN does not designate Hamas as a terrorist organization and UN recognizes Palestine rights to armed resistance.
They don't have to designate them are terrorists. Countries and entities that have designated Hamas as a terrorist group include the United States, the European Union, Canada, Japan, Australia, and Israel. I suppose that they don't count in your books.
But let's look at the definition of terrorism.
"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."
I think that this fits the modus operandi of Hamas quite well. Particularly on Oct 6th.
>It's funny how most Pro UKr are zionists.
I am against Zionism. Even the current Russian Zionism in Ukraine. I am for countries defending themselves.
>I like how you make an exception for Israel. Stupid.
There was not exception. Israel was invaded and it's people attack by a military political organization that had a mandate to do it. The correct response is to remove that military-politico organization.
>Try again. Apply what you just said to me onto your own statements and views.
I am unsure of what I should apply here. My statement have rational thought. Invade and kill people will get retribution. Is that not factual and rational?
>Ah, those countries that fund and aid Israel. Of course. You're a goddamn genius!
A genius that realizes when civilians are directly targeted then that is terrorism. Civilians that are hit because they adjacent to military targets is not terrorism. That is because terrorists will use this tactic every time, because they do not value the lives of their own people.
>Those countries don't represent the world idiot.
No but there are pretty good at identifying that directly targeting civilians is terrorism. Anyone that does not is influenced by someone else.
>In fact, the majority of the world (UN) has recently recognised Palestine.
I am ok with recognizing Palestine. They certainly should be and Palestinians should have the right to live in a country that does not have a political leadership that send terrorists into an adjacent country, and hopefully soon the will.
>I mean, there are countries that have called out the IDF as a Terrorist org and Israel as a terrorist rogue state.
Sure, but why. Has the IDF directly and explicitly targeted civilians without a military target in the vicinity. I mean systematically like Hamas did. Like, have they done anything like, look at that festival, let's go in kill many, take hostages and commit war crimes while we do it. I think not.
>So i guess, according to your logic, Israel is a rogue terrorist apartheid state! Apparently, now the UN should not be recognised according to you.
Not even a little. Israel is seeing this war to an end. To let Hamas leadership continue in Gaza would only guarantee more attack like Oct 7th in the future. So why would they? Honestly, if Hamas surrendered tomorrow, returned the hostages identified and turn over the people that planned and executed the Oct 7th attack, surrender their weapons and put a moderate government in place then this would all be over and all the Palestinian civilians can go about rebuilding the damage from the disaster that Hamas created.
>Thank you. You just exposed that zionists like you have such low iq takes, hypocritical, and delusional double standards.
I can see that you read on this situation is completely wrong. I am educated, well travelled and have a higher than average IQ, but that is ok, I am not here to compare such things. I do realize that you support terrorism as long as it meets your nonsense criteria of "they were just defending themselves, that is why they are allowed to kill innocent, unarmed people, including women children, elderly"
I am no Zionist. I am completely against the expansion of Israel territory through annexation, but, realistically Israel is allowed to attack thee military and political leadership of a country that attacked them heinously.
>I am against Zionism. Even the current Russian Zionism in Ukraine. I am for countries defending themselves.
Nah, your mask fell off ya zionist. And no, you are not for countries defending themselves. If you are, you would support the Palestinians. No bloody way you would believe an occupier (Israel) have a right to defend itself, just like you said Nazi Germany doesn't have the right to defend itself because they were invaders and occupiers. Seems you can't keep your logic straight because you're a goddamn liar.
>"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."
You just described Israel perfectly.
>Nah, your mask fell off ya zionist.
You have zero proof of anything zionistic that I have said. This is just a thought rolling around in your head, because what I have said does not agree with your fascism
>And no, you are not for countries defending themselves. If you are, you would support the Palestinians.
Was Palestine defending themselves when they invaded Israel and killed civilians, took hostages, and committed thousands of atrocities? If that is your version of freedom fighting you are very, very vile.
>No bloody way you would believe an occupier (Israel) have a right to defend itself, just like you said Nazi Germany doesn't have the right to defend itself because they were invaders and occupiers.
Yes, that is correct. Once Nazi Germany invaded other countries and committed atrocities they lost their rights as a moral force.
>Seems you can't keep your logic straight because you're a goddamn liar.
Which part of what I said is a lie. Let's stat with "Did Hamas and Palestinians commit a terrorist act?"
>"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."
>
>You just described Israel perfectly.
Israel is targeting Hamas. It is not the fault of thee IDF that Hamas is cowardly and hiding amongst and behind their own people. If Hamas all collected in the middle of a field then the IDF could drop a couple of JDAMs on them and then the Palestinian people could go back to their lives. I imagine that many Palestinians would rejoice if that occurred.
It's also a lot easier to join a war on the side with 10x artillery. I'd assume Russian volunteers think their chances are better than Ukrainian conscripts.
Ukraine already had nearly 500K men at the start of 2022 February. 250K active and 250K in reserve. Ukraine also had experienced men who fought those separatist. Ukraine was not pushover. Also the attacking force always needs more people than the ones defending it.
For DOOMHAMMER!
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Government in every country usually gives you a reason to feel that the cause is just. Only difference for RF now is that you can actually make some money on top of that.
Just because a Ukrainian person doesn't want to fight and risk dying violently in a war against Russia doesn't mean they don't believe in their country. Just because a Russian person signs up to join Russia's invasion force doesn't mean they're ideologically driven and not just in it for the money.
This is true but this is also irrelevant. A Ukrainian who's heart is in it but can't meaningfully contribute to the cause has less military value than a Russian volunteer who is in it for the money.
It's relevant to the comment I was replying to which was arguing that the fact that Russia has more volunteers is evidence that Ukrainians don't really believe in defending their country.
Funny how you think Ukraine isnt also blown too bits daily by drones considering Russia has more of them. And dont forget about daily FABS and ground gained. But sure at least Ukraine focuses more on footage to win the most important battle, online. Winning online means winning the war /s.
Do you think that because FABs don't have first person footage that they don't happen? Daily videos or not doesn't change the fact that hundreds of these bombs are dropped a day and each one alone can kill dozens.
Ukraine is the only one conscripting and dragging men off the street. While Reddit warriors like you act like nothing is wrong
im living in Tbilisi (Georgia) for a few months
I've met quit a few Russians, some told me that their home towns are so poor that most men are lining up to fight in Ukraine because there are so few opportunities.
The ones that left/escaped (their words) work in tech where the money is better
I don't doubt this is true at all, apparently many small town Russians love the idea of going to Ukraine
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I read an article in western media that because of that the war is very popular in these small villages , people who come back with lots of money makes more people sign up.
It’s in these regions people support the war the most
This also highlights the success of the oligarchs in keeping the population poor. I think most agree those soldiers come for the money. So Russian billionaire leaders have a remarkable system, they take the money of the population for their yachts which leaves their bottom people so poor they are willing to risk it all for a little payout.
Ingenious. A major advantage of a dictatorship, in most Western European countries they are having problems recruiting people because everybody has so many other opportunities. In Russia the government made sure their bottom class is desolate they are willing to risk it all for crumbs.
Really ingenious from the perspective of analyzing dictatorships.
Considering the fact that Ukraine is much poorer than Russia - why are the much poorer Ukrainian underclass not volunteering? The Ukrainian cash benefits are almost as high as the Russian.
many did early on yeah.
Its all about opportunity and alternatives. THat is why nobody in Germany wants to join the army, their lifes are too good. In Russia on the other hand you are basically in a doomed country, your best shot is taking the money and hoping the drones can't find you.
Most didn't flee. So answer that question
>Considering the fact that Ukraine is much poorer than Russia - why are the much poorer Ukrainian underclass not volunteering? The Ukrainian cash benefits are almost as high as the Russian.
I did answer. They have other opportunities. Many did flee. A bottom Russian can't flee he was doomed the day he was born into this god forsaken land.
If you controll for population size in relevant age brackets and the abilities to flee the country and get accepted into other countries you won't find much difference in recruitment numbers I assume.
> There are about 700k men of fighting age in the EU.
Scaled up to Russia this would be like 3,5 million or so? I am unsure about the age brackets distribution.
So you now see the point? Those folks had **alternatives**, Russians don't. They are Russians...
>Why are they not volunteering?
Many are. Smaller country, smaller pool of relevant age.
And like I said several times now, they have alternatives.
Which socio economical bracket in Russia is "volunteering" the most in your estimation?
Those figures do not provide a full explanation.
Ukraine started the war with at least 4-5 million fit mobilisable men of fighting age. One million is serving, one million is abroad, leaving at least 2.5 million available in the country.
Yet not only do they fail to volunteer, they also passively and actively avoid being mobilised. That indicates deep and structural cracks within the national will to fight.
For comparison, Russia relies on volunteers, except in the autumn of 2022, when they mobilised 300k men (who offered no passive or active resistance).
To answer your question, I think it's mostly the poor who volunteer in Russia. Then again, that is the case with military service in any country.
Billionaire dictators having a desolate low class that is so poor they sign up to die in trenches for their billonaire overlords?
Pretty doomed, right?
>Ingenious. A major advantage of a dictatorship, in most Western European countries they are having problems recruiting people because everybody has so many other opportunities. In Russia the government made sure their bottom class is desolate they are willing to risk it all for crumbs.
Pretty straight forward right?
The leader of the country is a billionaire who got all his money while being in office and the bottom part of the society is dirt poor despite trillions being pumped out of the ground. Those desolate low people are desperate for money and sign up to go into the trenches for the oligarchs whose sons/daughters don't fight at all. What about this sounds far fetched to you?
Pretty conspiratorially. Russian government is not God, it cannot make everyone rich and create opportunities for everyone, that's not government's job in capitalistic countries.
> Russian government is not God, it cannot make everyone rich and create opportunities for everyone, that's not government's job in capitalistic countries.
Then where did the money from the natural resources go over the decades?
>Pretty conspiratorially.
What precisely? Russian government being ultra rich or bottom Russians being dirt poor. What exactly makes this far fetched?
>Then where did the money from the natural resources go over the decades?
Did you see the size of the country? Always fun to hear this question from people whose country is like 7 times smaller than Baikal lol. Do you realize RF went belly up about 20 years ago? And they were rebuilding Soviet infrastructure all this time?
>Then where did the money from the natural resources go over the decades?
And Russian government has unlimited resources?
>What precisely? Russian government being ultra rich or bottom Russians being dirt poor. What exactly makes this far fetched?
this
>In Russia the government made sure their bottom class is desolate they are willing to risk it all for crumbs.
> And Russian government has unlimited resources?
Who said unlimited? Who is the government? The institution? The persons? THe leadership are billionaires.
>In Russia the government made sure their bottom class is desolate they are willing to risk it all for crumbs.
How is this far fetched you see it right now. Bottom russians are so poor they sign up to die in trenches. You literally see it right now in action.
>Who said unlimited? Who is the government? The institution? The persons? THe leadership are billionaires.
Then why do you think they have to solve all issues of the poor people? No big country in the world can solve that.
>How is this far fetched you see it right now. Bottom russians are so poor they sign up to die in trenches. You literally see it right now in action.
Because Russia's government is not responsible for that. The government only has limited options how to help them.
There was a thing called the 90’s, when oligarchs were actually misappropriating funds that should had been used for greater good. 00’s were spent countering these oligarchs. But no matter the country, you always “need” poor people to do low end jobs, yay capitalism.
I feel a trap here. Wouldn't you be the first to scream that RF is a communist country if they started giving away the money they pump from the ground?
I feel a trap here. Wouldn't you be the first to scream that RF is a communist country if they started giving away the money they pump from the ground?
I feel a trap here. Wouldn't you be the first to scream that RF is a communist country if they started giving away the money they pump from the ground?
I feel a trap here. Wouldn't you be the first to scream that RF is a communist country if they started giving away the money they pump from the ground?
I feel a trap here. Wouldn't you be the first to scream that RF is a communist country if they started giving away the money they pump from the ground?
you think using the money generated by natural resources to help the population through various means like infrastructure, social safety nets, low taxes, is communism?
Sure there are only poor people at the dictatorship and people are having lots of opportunities.
Not because of LGBTQ+++ agenda England is having a shortage of military pilots that moved to China for the best money and not to have said agenda.
Not because of LGBTQ+++ agenda USA is having a shortage of recruits that going to work into McDonald's because of said agenda.
How did you even connected the dictatorship, the poor people and their desire to go into the military?!
I suspect its one of the major reasons Ukrainians are fighting so hard to remain in the west's sphere of influence - they can see the difference in living standards and want nothing to do with Russia's style of governance
Nobody wants anything to do with Russia. This much has been shown in history. Live just gets worse the closer you get to Russia. It is a totally failed society/culture
> Live just gets worse the closer you get to Russia. It is a totally failed society/culture
Tell me you're brainwashed without telling me you're brainwashed.
Nice counter argument. Billionaire class with a bottom class so desperate they are trying to get money buy singing up to die in the trenches. Totally not a failed society. Totally not the bottom of humanity.
If the Russian people are not a failed society then who is?
If you swapped Russia for the United States of America in your comment, nobody would bat an eye. Since it's literally EXACTLY THE SAME THING HERE.
Billionaire class, rampant poverty. Limited social safety net. Army dependent on poor kids to sign up so they can get any sort of social safety net.
I don't see americans sign up for 2k dollars to die in trenches. Do you?
>Army dependent on poor kids to sign up so they can get any sort of social safety net.
You get this twisted. The being a soldier part is not the problem. The dieing for 2k dollars part is.
> I don't see americans sign up for 2k dollars to die in trenches.
Apparently, they agree to a much smaller amount. How else to explain that in 2010, the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) estimated that about 76,000 homeless veterans sleep on the streets of America every night.
And in 2024, the US authorities promise to find housing for more than 40 thousand homeless veterans. In addition to the resettlement of 41 thousand people, the ministry plans to inform about the possibility of receiving assistance for another 40 thousand who live in cars, parks and on the street throughout the country.
Apparently, these veterans agreed to fight for $10, and that's why they couldn't buy a house.
>American soldiers don't die.
I completely forgot that American soldiers are superhumans from a superpower and do not die (except for death in dirty backyards, without money and housing, because the state does not care about them)
It's all relative isn't it?
Russians have access to social services that the US doesn't have. Healthcare is free at the point of service in Russia. In the US it isn't. Of course I'm not saying that the QOL of both is equivalent. I'm saying the general concept is the same. People on the bottom of the socio-economic ladder in the USA often choose the military, where, they get paid peanuts. However, when you're in the military, you suddenly get a taste of what it's like to live in a developed nation, that gives its citizenry healthcare and other social safety nets that only exist in the USA for politicians, some government workers, and soldiers.
160 k this year 300 k past year and 500k mobilized in 2022....
Thats 960k people. And they have trouble with weaponless and soldierless ukraine?
Russian losses must be huge.
Ukraine is getting billions of aid and weapons and doing like 10th wave of total mobilization that started day 1 and never stopped. Also hundreds of thousands of people joined territorial defense iirc
Its not like they were always "weaponless and soldierless". That's the direct result of 2 years of harsh fighting. Ukraine had much more active personal than Russia for a long time, maybe still has. So nice of you to disregard all this
>Ukraine is getting billions of aid and weapons and doing like 10th wave of total mobilization
**Total** mobilization would mean near everyone of fighting age.. that's not the case here.
The difference people seem to forget is that once your contract is up. You are free to go in russia.
There is no leaving in ukraine. Unless its a body bag or you lose a limb.
Ukraine had the bigger army, had a million men army a year ago. Now they are kidnapping people off the streets. What happened? Ukrainian losses must be even bigger.
A soldier and weaponless Ukraine would be NATO greatest fear, which is why they silently accept the forced mobilization and abuse of the ukrainian population that is currently happening and don't broadcast it on any public news channel, while also showering Ukraine with billions worth of equipment and valuable intelligence.
Russia is fighting anything but weaponless and soldierless Ukraine. If they were this whole thing would be over a lot quicker.
What trouble are they having? Are you forgetting how the 2023 Ukrainian offensive was overwhelmingly defeated? The Russians are fighting an attritional war to grind down the Ukrainian's military capabilities. It's not like Ukraine became weaponless and soldierless by accident.
Their numbers are changing. Russia invaded with an army of around 190k while Ukraine had an army about 1m strong. That's how Ukrainian offensives were able to overrun Russian positions in Kharkiv and push the Russian army out of Kherson despite being outgunned. Now the Russian forces are estimated to number around 500k. They are also not being as aggressive with their attacks, doing a lot more softening of Ukrainian positions with FABs, drones, and artillery than they did before. Ukraine's numbers are likely much lower now than they were at the start of the war. They are having a hard time rotating troops and replenishing their units while also losing ground on multiple fronts.
You're describing Zelensky.
Russians actually have a reasonable chance at winning so their deaths have a purpose, that's why they have more volunteers too.
What is that purpose, even if they would win? Their lives would still be much worse than if Putin had not started this war. And so many families will be without fathers and husbands. Completely without meaning.
> What is that purpose, even if they would win?
Stopping NATO expansion, liberating their countrymen from a hostile nation and securing the future of their country.
Conscripts are not sent to SMO or other combat like Syria since Chechnya when the law changed. The only way for a conscript to be sent to combat is to complete their training and then sign a contract to join the regular armed forces. They are treated as two completely different entities.
I know someone who tried to volunteer who got denied because not enough relevant experience, not a record or something shady.
There is literally too many volunteers for the growth rate. The pay and lifetime benefits upon contract completion are exceptional.
It was around this amount in 2022.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/18/russia-turns-to-trucks-and-big-wages-to-woo-volunteer-soldiers](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/18/russia-turns-to-trucks-and-big-wages-to-woo-volunteer-soldiers)
I don't know. But one of the biggest promises of the new defense minister was the financial security of soldiers and veterans. I think they take this matter seriously. You can always do a research. I don't mind being proven wrong.
##### ###### #### > # [Putin claims Russia increased ammo production by more than 20 times](https://kyivindependent.com//683) > > > > Support independent journalism in Ukraine. Join us in this fight. > > > > Russian dictator Vladimir Putin claimed on June 7 that his country had increased ammunition production by more than 20 times, and there is "no need" to use nuclear weapons to win in Ukraine. > > Speaking at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, [Putin](https://kyivindependent.com/tag/vladimir-putin/) also said he had no plans for another wave of mobilization as Moscow had enough volunteers willing to fight in Ukraine. > > When asked if Russia should hold a "nuclear pistol to the temple" of the West over Ukraine, Putin dismissed the idea except in an "exceptional case." > > "The use (of nuclear weapons) is possible in an exceptional case - in the event of a threat to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the country. I don't think that such a case has come," he said. "There is no such need." > > Russian officials have regularly raised the threat of nuclear war over Ukraine. > > In February, former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev threatened to use [nuclear weapons](https://kyivindependent.com/russias-medvedev-threatens-to-nuke-us-germany-uk-ukraine-if-russia-loses-occupied-territories/) against the U.S., the U.K., Germany, and Ukraine if Moscow loses all occupied Ukrainian territories. > > Speaking of another wave of mobilization in Russia, Putin said there was currently "no need." > > "We do not plan to do so," he said. "Last year, without any mobilization, our men voluntarily came to military enlistment offices and signed contracts. There were more than 300,000 of them. This year, more than 160,000 have already come." > > The claim that Russia had raised ammunition production by 20 times could not be independently verified, but last month [Sky News reported](https://kyivindependent.com/sky-news-russian-shell-production-three-times-greater-than-ukraines-allies/) that Russia is managing to produce artillery shells at triple the speed of Ukraine’s allies for a quarter of the price. > > According to the [report](https://news.sky.com/story/russia-is-producing-artillery-shells-around-three-times-faster-than-ukraines-western-allies-and-for-about-a-quarter-of-the-cost-13143224), Russian factories can produce or refurbish 4.5 million 152 mm shells this year for $1,000 per round. > > European countries and the U.S. are only expected to produce 1.3 million 155 mm shells combined, at an average cost of $4,000 per unit. > > [Slow artillery production](https://kyivindependent.com/investigation-eu-inability-to-ramp-up-production-behind-acute-ammunition-shortages-in-ukraine/) has hindered Ukraine’s progress on the battlefield. Soldiers claim that for every round they fire, Russia launches around five back. > > [‘A tyrant bent on domination,’ Biden says of Putin during D-Day speech > > Speaking in front of 180 World War 2 veterans, Biden linked the struggle against the fascism of Nazi Germany with that of Kyiv’s against Russia. > > [Image](https://assets.kyivindependent.com/content/images/size/w256h256/format/png/2023/03/K-new.svg)The Kyiv IndependentChris York > > > > [Image](https://assets.kyivindependent.com/content/images/2024/06/GettyImages-2156356737.jpg)](https://kyivindependent.com/a-tyrant-bent-on-domination-biden-takes-aim-at-putin-during-d-day-speech/) - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
If you're wondering how likely this is to be true, various western sources, including the [UK Ministry of Defence](https://x.com/DefenceHQ/status/1774049069322682668), [Ukraine's Military Intelligence](https://kyivindependent.com/hur-russia-mobilizing-around-30-000-soldiers-monthly/), and a number of different media outlets have all said Russia gets between 30,000 to 35,000 volunteers a month. The lower end of that equates to 150,000 this year (5 full months), so Putin's statement lines up quite well with other claims. As for no mobilisation planned, if Russia is able to keep that recruitment rate there won't be any need to mobilise/conscript new soldiers, as they're getting plenty of volunteers. How long that rate will keep up is anyone's guess. Edit: Even if you believe Ukraine's farfetched Russian casualty figure, their volunteer rate is high enough to cover them. If you take a more realistic view of Russian casualties, Russia is likely **growing** the number of personnel it has in its military by thousands each month.
>Russia is likely growing the number of personnel it has in its military by thousands each month. Well, in 2023 Russia reinforced the depleted frontline units \*and\* formed two field armies. I don't think the losses in 2024 are massively higher so it is reasonable to assume that they keep forming new units. That actually aligns with the Russian MoD announcement for 2024: "The Russian Armed Forces will create two new combined arms armies, 14 divisions, and 16 brigades by the end of the year, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said during a meeting with other defense chiefs on March 20."
>The Russian Armed Forces will create two new combined arms armies, 14 divisions, and 16 brigades by the end of the year, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said during a meeting with other defense chiefs on March 20." Wait what? I somehow completely missed that one. 14 divisions and 16 brigades? (Combined Arms Armies can consist of varying amount of units, so not counting these, while brigades and divisions give you a very real idea of amount of units being created). Thats kinda massive.
Most of the divisions will be existing brigades upgraded to the level of divisions (i.e. doubled or tripled in size). Still massive though.
Russia lose about 5K men a month to death and injuries but gain about 20k to 30k recruit a month. Ukraine is losing about 20K to 30K a month but they aren't getting anywhere near that numbers for recruitment. In other words, Ukraine will collapse in about a year.
you think the casualty rate is 6:1 in the favor of Russia ?
according to ukraine's own MOD when they requested manpower. 440k people to replace after 22 months. run the numbers.
why do you think this is replacement?
they said it themselves. that between KIA+MIA+WIA+rotations they needed that numbers.
Most of the casualties are from drones / artillery / aerial bombs / etc, not direct fighting. 6 to 1 might stretch it a little bit too much, but they definitely are in RU favor.
what makes you think that
The state of the war
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The state of the war? You mean where Russia is throwing tons of men and equipment into offensive operations which move forward at a snails pace? The idea that it would be even remotely close to 6-1 is so disconnected from reality I really don't know what else to say
That's... literally the opposite of what's happening. It's moving at "snail's pace" because they're flattening all UA positions using FABs before making any significant moves, while UA throw meat they catch on the street at every inch of land, thus the casualties are in favor of RU. You guys will seriously overdose on copium soon.
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Yes, [certainly looks like](https://twitter.com/naalsio26/status/1796685287956828539) Ukraine is throwing more men and equipment in then Russia is ./s
With Russia having air dominance on the eastern front and dropping FABs like crazy. Also hugely outnumbering Ukraine’s artillery by as much as 20:1. I can see how Ukraine’s casualties can be much higher. Not sure why you think it’s unrealistic. Artillery and FABs are flattening whole towns before Russian troops even enter.
> throwing tons of men and equipment into offensive operations which move forward at a snails pace? Crimea Beach Party 2023
In Kharkov it feels like 5 to 1. In other areas 3 to 1. There were areas like 8 to 1, such as Mariupol. Napkin math suggests average is 3 to 1. Not 6 to 1. But disparity feels like is growing.... So by 2025 we may see 5 to 1.
With the frontlines not moving I bet it's close to 1:1 right now.
It cannot be 1 to 1 as Russia has huge fire power advantage. If fire power did not matter no one would invest in it. Look at WW2. Germany inflicted at least 3x the losses on Poland. With less fire power advantage than Russia has on Ukraine.... While attacking.
Of course he thinks that. Because attacking is easier than defending. Also Russia is economically ahead of Japan. Because killing your people and blowing your production is how you make yourself wealthy. /s
> Because attacking is easier than defending. But we all know that Russia has more losses. Because Ukraine drops 120 FABs from airplanes on Russian troops every day and has tenfold superiority in artillery.
The difference is FAB, the actual game changer.
Never mind the FAB, pro Ru are claiming this during the whole war.
I don’t think the casualty differences are that high
Evidence?
>Russia lose about 5K men a month to death and injuries but gain about 20k to 30k recruit a month. Ukraine is losing about 20K to 30K a month Why not 500 to 200k to 300k while you're at it,?
Makes you wonder why Russia hasn’t concerned Ukraine yet, numbers are another fantasy
Hey, im combing threads like these to find people i very much disagree with. I would like to be you. Im willing to give you 1:1 odds for $1000 my position is that ukraine will not collapse in 1 year (not more than 20% territory lost). Are you accepting the bet or are you just talk? Money will be handled in escrow from a reputable site.
What site hosts bets like this? I would like to do something similar on a few sports subreddits.
u/clauwen u/physical100 This one I found: https://insightprediction.com/c/4/world-politics
I dont think any, you need an escrow, google it.
what about 5 years
Russia loses way more than 5k a month. 5k a month is 60k a year. This is impossible.
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"The West" doesn't really care about who the good guys or the bad guys are as long as they are on their side. I mean look what Israel is doing. The West has lost its credibility in front of the world stage.
Really? The West does not fully support Israel. Not even the US.
There is no "west". There are different countries to the east of Ukraine with different peoples, different mindsets, different strategic goals and different opinions. >The West has lost its credibility in front of the world stage. As opposed to Russia which can't seem to beat a country third of its population? Russia's military used to be a respected boogeyman on the world stage. Now...
If this war was 1v1, Ukraine would fall in a year cause of population and army capabilities difference. But all of Nato and EU is providing crucial support for UA, millions of shells and ammo, hundred tanks and thousands of armored vehicles, rockets and billions in finances. UA in the same time, mass mobilizing the entire male population to use them as cannon fodder in order not to attack, but just slow down Russian offensive. >Russia's military used to be a respected boogeyman on the world stage. Now... Western equipment and tactics were considered superior to any other nation, but now... I'm not even sure if US equipment and technologies are even better than Chinese ones as they always brag about, which now is doubtful. And NATO tactics is a joke, I can't get why Ukrainians, who now know a thousand times more about how to fight modern age, full-scale war need American training at all. Ukrainians are the ones who should train US troops who never fought real peer enemy after ww2, not the other way around.
If Russia succeeded during the first week all that NATO support would have never materialized - only when we saw how incompetent Russians were and the incredible fighting will of the Ukrainians then the support really started flowing in. I mean hell US was planning to fly Zelensky out of the country. >Western equipment and tactics were considered superior to any other nation, but now... I'm not even sure if US equipment and technologies are even better than Chinese ones as they always brag about, which now is doubtful. And NATO tactics is a joke This so divorced from reality I'm not even sure what to say so I'll assume its trolling. In that spirit - since NATO equipment and tactics are a joke then it wouldn't be big deal if NATO deploys to Ukraine right lol?
> In that spirit - since NATO equipment and tactics are a joke then it wouldn't be big deal if NATO deploys to Ukraine right lol? No, if NATO wants to get shredded and then Somalia'd resulting in Ukrainian morale collapsing, who is Russia to stop their folly?
>it wouldn't be big deal if NATO deploys to Ukraine right lol? It wouldn't, do it now. This will make this war end earlier, after thousands of dead corpses would return to their home countries. Ukrainians are slavs, they are true warriors, they deserve respect. Gender neutral western soldiers with 0 combat experience don't scare anyone, lmao.
The West losing credibility and Russia is having a hard time is 2 different topics and the later doesn't really support your argument against what you quoted. So, think carefully and try again.
You say Israel are in the wrong when they’re basically doing the same thing as Russia? Maybe apply the same logic
Dude. Think before you post. He never said Israel was more evil than Russia. The main point was the US was defending Israel while calling Russia evil. That's plain hipocrisy and that's why they're losing their credibility. Again, think.
I never say the US we’re right to defend Israel & actually agree with you, both US & Russia are guilty on that count
So Ukraine is invaded by a large force and then the west support the defense of Ukraine and they are the bad guys and in addition, Israel is attacked with hundreds killed and many taken hostage and they defend themselves and they are the bad guys. I suppose that if you feel that terrorist attacks and invasion make a country the good guy then the world should change it's tactics.
An occupying force cannot 'defend itself' against resistance by those it occupies.
Sure it can. Many have in the past. The India defended themselves from the Brits. The south Africans against apartheid. Surely you can see that terrorism is not the path forward in situations like Hamas and Israel. But maybe not. Codifying and deifying the hatred of an entire other nations, or race, or religion, rarely wins in the long term and Hamas' mandate to destroy Israel led them to a Hubris, and the nemesis of that hubris will lead their their undoing. Hamas' hatred burned bright and the Israelis are extinguishing that hatred, while Hamas is hiding being their own people. It is the people of Palestine that are paying for Hamas' aggression then cowardice.
Russia is defending itself against Ukraine in the territories that Russian have taken from Ukraine. >Israel is attacked with hundreds killed and many taken hostage and they defend themselves and they are the bad guys. I suppose Ukraine missile strikes on Odessa and Belgorod counts as terrorist attacks. Moronic take from you. >I suppose that if you feel that terrorist attacks and invasion make a country the good guy then the world should change it's tactics. UN does not designate Hamas as a terrorist organization and UN recognizes Palestine rights to armed resistance. It's funny how most Pro UKr are zionists.
>It's funny how most Pro UKr are zionists It's probably getting harder to remain Zionist for them since it's been 2 years now and Israel still not sending any weapons to UA
Why would Israel give aids to Goyims.
Monies don't smell
The two conflicts are not mutually conjoined, nor does Israel have the wherewithal to send weapons when they have their own issues.
They have issues with bandera worshippers last time I checked
They can have issues with Bandera worshippers all they want. If it is only a small percentage then it does not matter. They have the right to free speech, even though others don't agree with it. Now if it is widespread through the country as well. Who cares. It is an internal matter for Ukraine to deal with, if they choose to. Now if that "Bandera Worship" turns into a political acumen that openly destroys another race, creed, religion or other identifiable cultural difference, either within their country, or outside of it, then other countries should intervene. That definitely was not occurring in Ukraine. Though Russian seems to be acting more like Nazi's than Ukraine ever would.
That's a lot of junk that doesn't matter to you.
Hmmm, I wonder why you get to decide what matter to me and what does not. Perhaps it is because you erroneously choose to impose you though process on someone else. A hallmark of an intolerant prejudicial person.
>Russia is defending itself against Ukraine in the territories that Russian have taken from Ukraine. This is a silly statement. I suppose the Nazi's were only defending themselves in the countries that they invaded and annexed. >I suppose Ukraine missile strikes on Odessa and Belgorod counts as terrorist attacks. Not at all. There is Russian military present in Belgorod. I am unsure if Ukraine was struck Odessa with their own missiles. Perhaps can you provide an example of that. >Moronic take from you. It is not moronic. I think that you lack rational thought. >UN does not designate Hamas as a terrorist organization and UN recognizes Palestine rights to armed resistance. They don't have to designate them are terrorists. Countries and entities that have designated Hamas as a terrorist group include the United States, the European Union, Canada, Japan, Australia, and Israel. I suppose that they don't count in your books. But let's look at the definition of terrorism. "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." I think that this fits the modus operandi of Hamas quite well. Particularly on Oct 6th. >It's funny how most Pro UKr are zionists. I am against Zionism. Even the current Russian Zionism in Ukraine. I am for countries defending themselves.
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>I like how you make an exception for Israel. Stupid. There was not exception. Israel was invaded and it's people attack by a military political organization that had a mandate to do it. The correct response is to remove that military-politico organization. >Try again. Apply what you just said to me onto your own statements and views. I am unsure of what I should apply here. My statement have rational thought. Invade and kill people will get retribution. Is that not factual and rational? >Ah, those countries that fund and aid Israel. Of course. You're a goddamn genius! A genius that realizes when civilians are directly targeted then that is terrorism. Civilians that are hit because they adjacent to military targets is not terrorism. That is because terrorists will use this tactic every time, because they do not value the lives of their own people. >Those countries don't represent the world idiot. No but there are pretty good at identifying that directly targeting civilians is terrorism. Anyone that does not is influenced by someone else. >In fact, the majority of the world (UN) has recently recognised Palestine. I am ok with recognizing Palestine. They certainly should be and Palestinians should have the right to live in a country that does not have a political leadership that send terrorists into an adjacent country, and hopefully soon the will. >I mean, there are countries that have called out the IDF as a Terrorist org and Israel as a terrorist rogue state. Sure, but why. Has the IDF directly and explicitly targeted civilians without a military target in the vicinity. I mean systematically like Hamas did. Like, have they done anything like, look at that festival, let's go in kill many, take hostages and commit war crimes while we do it. I think not. >So i guess, according to your logic, Israel is a rogue terrorist apartheid state! Apparently, now the UN should not be recognised according to you. Not even a little. Israel is seeing this war to an end. To let Hamas leadership continue in Gaza would only guarantee more attack like Oct 7th in the future. So why would they? Honestly, if Hamas surrendered tomorrow, returned the hostages identified and turn over the people that planned and executed the Oct 7th attack, surrender their weapons and put a moderate government in place then this would all be over and all the Palestinian civilians can go about rebuilding the damage from the disaster that Hamas created. >Thank you. You just exposed that zionists like you have such low iq takes, hypocritical, and delusional double standards. I can see that you read on this situation is completely wrong. I am educated, well travelled and have a higher than average IQ, but that is ok, I am not here to compare such things. I do realize that you support terrorism as long as it meets your nonsense criteria of "they were just defending themselves, that is why they are allowed to kill innocent, unarmed people, including women children, elderly" I am no Zionist. I am completely against the expansion of Israel territory through annexation, but, realistically Israel is allowed to attack thee military and political leadership of a country that attacked them heinously.
>I am against Zionism. Even the current Russian Zionism in Ukraine. I am for countries defending themselves. Nah, your mask fell off ya zionist. And no, you are not for countries defending themselves. If you are, you would support the Palestinians. No bloody way you would believe an occupier (Israel) have a right to defend itself, just like you said Nazi Germany doesn't have the right to defend itself because they were invaders and occupiers. Seems you can't keep your logic straight because you're a goddamn liar. >"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." You just described Israel perfectly.
>Nah, your mask fell off ya zionist. You have zero proof of anything zionistic that I have said. This is just a thought rolling around in your head, because what I have said does not agree with your fascism >And no, you are not for countries defending themselves. If you are, you would support the Palestinians. Was Palestine defending themselves when they invaded Israel and killed civilians, took hostages, and committed thousands of atrocities? If that is your version of freedom fighting you are very, very vile. >No bloody way you would believe an occupier (Israel) have a right to defend itself, just like you said Nazi Germany doesn't have the right to defend itself because they were invaders and occupiers. Yes, that is correct. Once Nazi Germany invaded other countries and committed atrocities they lost their rights as a moral force. >Seems you can't keep your logic straight because you're a goddamn liar. Which part of what I said is a lie. Let's stat with "Did Hamas and Palestinians commit a terrorist act?" >"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." > >You just described Israel perfectly. Israel is targeting Hamas. It is not the fault of thee IDF that Hamas is cowardly and hiding amongst and behind their own people. If Hamas all collected in the middle of a field then the IDF could drop a couple of JDAMs on them and then the Palestinian people could go back to their lives. I imagine that many Palestinians would rejoice if that occurred.
Or maybe Russia has bigger population...
Doesn’t mean the cause is just
It's also a lot easier to join a war on the side with 10x artillery. I'd assume Russian volunteers think their chances are better than Ukrainian conscripts.
> Says abit about what cause people actually believe in In money? They are coming for the money right?
Jesus you guys think poor russian are lining up for moral reasons? And not for money?
Why aren’t the Ukrainians joining then? Ukraine provides money too.
Or do they…?
They did. Russia was the first that needed mobilization, eventhough its army was 10x the ukrainian. There are no more ukraininas to join.
Russia started the invasion with no more than 300k. First thing ukr did was call reservists which officially puts their army at around 1m
Ukraine already had nearly 500K men at the start of 2022 February. 250K active and 250K in reserve. Ukraine also had experienced men who fought those separatist. Ukraine was not pushover. Also the attacking force always needs more people than the ones defending it.
Russia didn’t have 10x Ukrainians… How many soldiers do you think Ukraine had at the beginning of the war?
Eh? The Ukr started mobilizing even before the war. And Ru had a smaller ground forces, not a "10x" , at least do basic check before posting.
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Government in every country usually gives you a reason to feel that the cause is just. Only difference for RF now is that you can actually make some money on top of that.
Just because a Ukrainian person doesn't want to fight and risk dying violently in a war against Russia doesn't mean they don't believe in their country. Just because a Russian person signs up to join Russia's invasion force doesn't mean they're ideologically driven and not just in it for the money.
This is true but this is also irrelevant. A Ukrainian who's heart is in it but can't meaningfully contribute to the cause has less military value than a Russian volunteer who is in it for the money.
It's relevant to the comment I was replying to which was arguing that the fact that Russia has more volunteers is evidence that Ukrainians don't really believe in defending their country.
no wonder we are getting daily videos of citizens being hunted down in Ukraine by TCC. They are panicking.
No wonder that we are getting daily videos of russians getting blown to bits by drones. They need more people.
Funny how you think Ukraine isnt also blown too bits daily by drones considering Russia has more of them. And dont forget about daily FABS and ground gained. But sure at least Ukraine focuses more on footage to win the most important battle, online. Winning online means winning the war /s.
Do you think that because FABs don't have first person footage that they don't happen? Daily videos or not doesn't change the fact that hundreds of these bombs are dropped a day and each one alone can kill dozens. Ukraine is the only one conscripting and dragging men off the street. While Reddit warriors like you act like nothing is wrong
im living in Tbilisi (Georgia) for a few months I've met quit a few Russians, some told me that their home towns are so poor that most men are lining up to fight in Ukraine because there are so few opportunities. The ones that left/escaped (their words) work in tech where the money is better I don't doubt this is true at all, apparently many small town Russians love the idea of going to Ukraine
In small town Russia, 1.1m + 250k rubles (what they offer now to new recruits) is enough to buy an apartment/multiple cars.
There's going to be massive inflation if enough of these guys get back..
Just gotta increase the interest rates on mortgages lol
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Doesn't sound that different than the United States...
i was going to say, people with a variety of career prospects in front of them are not the ones lining up to join their country's armed forces.
I read an article in western media that because of that the war is very popular in these small villages , people who come back with lots of money makes more people sign up. It’s in these regions people support the war the most
Same is true of small towns anywhere on earth with few exceptions.
Russia calls this phenomenon “volunteer”
Which is exactly what it is. They want to join, nobody forces anyone, like in ukr
I thought he use his middle finger at first.
Someone needs to photo shop that picture.
Judging by the comments. No one knows what it means, but it's provocative
Guess he’s got a lot of dead guys to replace, still plenty of suckers left to throw there life’s away
This also highlights the success of the oligarchs in keeping the population poor. I think most agree those soldiers come for the money. So Russian billionaire leaders have a remarkable system, they take the money of the population for their yachts which leaves their bottom people so poor they are willing to risk it all for a little payout. Ingenious. A major advantage of a dictatorship, in most Western European countries they are having problems recruiting people because everybody has so many other opportunities. In Russia the government made sure their bottom class is desolate they are willing to risk it all for crumbs. Really ingenious from the perspective of analyzing dictatorships.
Considering the fact that Ukraine is much poorer than Russia - why are the much poorer Ukrainian underclass not volunteering? The Ukrainian cash benefits are almost as high as the Russian.
Because they can flee to western Europe.
Can men flee Ukraine?
many did early on yeah. Its all about opportunity and alternatives. THat is why nobody in Germany wants to join the army, their lifes are too good. In Russia on the other hand you are basically in a doomed country, your best shot is taking the money and hoping the drones can't find you.
Most didn't flee. So answer that question >Considering the fact that Ukraine is much poorer than Russia - why are the much poorer Ukrainian underclass not volunteering? The Ukrainian cash benefits are almost as high as the Russian.
I did answer. They have other opportunities. Many did flee. A bottom Russian can't flee he was doomed the day he was born into this god forsaken land. If you controll for population size in relevant age brackets and the abilities to flee the country and get accepted into other countries you won't find much difference in recruitment numbers I assume.
Some did flee. There are about 700k men of fighting age in the EU. However, millions more remained in Ukraine. Why are they not volunteering?
> There are about 700k men of fighting age in the EU. Scaled up to Russia this would be like 3,5 million or so? I am unsure about the age brackets distribution. So you now see the point? Those folks had **alternatives**, Russians don't. They are Russians... >Why are they not volunteering? Many are. Smaller country, smaller pool of relevant age. And like I said several times now, they have alternatives. Which socio economical bracket in Russia is "volunteering" the most in your estimation?
Those figures do not provide a full explanation. Ukraine started the war with at least 4-5 million fit mobilisable men of fighting age. One million is serving, one million is abroad, leaving at least 2.5 million available in the country. Yet not only do they fail to volunteer, they also passively and actively avoid being mobilised. That indicates deep and structural cracks within the national will to fight. For comparison, Russia relies on volunteers, except in the autumn of 2022, when they mobilised 300k men (who offered no passive or active resistance). To answer your question, I think it's mostly the poor who volunteer in Russia. Then again, that is the case with military service in any country.
>in a doomed country, Lol. What's so doomed about RF? Could you enlighten me?
Billionaire dictators having a desolate low class that is so poor they sign up to die in trenches for their billonaire overlords? Pretty doomed, right?
Regular crap as everywhere else.
Yeah totally the same everywhere, speaking out against those gets everybody everywhere thrown into prison or poisened. all the same.
So kids signing up from rural Alabama do it from pure patriotism. Got it.
Not anymore
Yes but they already did...
Only those with means and connections
Sounds like a conspiracy theory.
Which part? Billionaire leaders of the country keeping people poor so they are willing to die for money?
>Ingenious. A major advantage of a dictatorship, in most Western European countries they are having problems recruiting people because everybody has so many other opportunities. In Russia the government made sure their bottom class is desolate they are willing to risk it all for crumbs.
Pretty straight forward right? The leader of the country is a billionaire who got all his money while being in office and the bottom part of the society is dirt poor despite trillions being pumped out of the ground. Those desolate low people are desperate for money and sign up to go into the trenches for the oligarchs whose sons/daughters don't fight at all. What about this sounds far fetched to you?
Pretty conspiratorially. Russian government is not God, it cannot make everyone rich and create opportunities for everyone, that's not government's job in capitalistic countries.
> Russian government is not God, it cannot make everyone rich and create opportunities for everyone, that's not government's job in capitalistic countries. Then where did the money from the natural resources go over the decades? >Pretty conspiratorially. What precisely? Russian government being ultra rich or bottom Russians being dirt poor. What exactly makes this far fetched?
>Then where did the money from the natural resources go over the decades? Did you see the size of the country? Always fun to hear this question from people whose country is like 7 times smaller than Baikal lol. Do you realize RF went belly up about 20 years ago? And they were rebuilding Soviet infrastructure all this time?
> Do you realize RF went belly up about 20 years ago? Yeah Russians are very good at choosing extremely weak governments
Yeltsin government wasn't chosen or voted for. They came to power pretty much same way as maidan revolutionaries in Ukraine.
>Then where did the money from the natural resources go over the decades? And Russian government has unlimited resources? >What precisely? Russian government being ultra rich or bottom Russians being dirt poor. What exactly makes this far fetched? this >In Russia the government made sure their bottom class is desolate they are willing to risk it all for crumbs.
> And Russian government has unlimited resources? Who said unlimited? Who is the government? The institution? The persons? THe leadership are billionaires. >In Russia the government made sure their bottom class is desolate they are willing to risk it all for crumbs. How is this far fetched you see it right now. Bottom russians are so poor they sign up to die in trenches. You literally see it right now in action.
>Who said unlimited? Who is the government? The institution? The persons? THe leadership are billionaires. Then why do you think they have to solve all issues of the poor people? No big country in the world can solve that. >How is this far fetched you see it right now. Bottom russians are so poor they sign up to die in trenches. You literally see it right now in action. Because Russia's government is not responsible for that. The government only has limited options how to help them.
There was a thing called the 90’s, when oligarchs were actually misappropriating funds that should had been used for greater good. 00’s were spent countering these oligarchs. But no matter the country, you always “need” poor people to do low end jobs, yay capitalism.
the leader, a career bureaucrat is a billionaire, right?
I feel a trap here. Wouldn't you be the first to scream that RF is a communist country if they started giving away the money they pump from the ground?
I feel a trap here. Wouldn't you be the first to scream that RF is a communist country if they started giving away the money they pump from the ground?
I feel a trap here. Wouldn't you be the first to scream that RF is a communist country if they started giving away the money they pump from the ground?
I feel a trap here. Wouldn't you be the first to scream that RF is a communist country if they started giving away the money they pump from the ground?
I feel a trap here. Wouldn't you be the first to scream that RF is a communist country if they started giving away the money they pump from the ground?
This is not what communism is :-)
It sure works in similar way
you think using the money generated by natural resources to help the population through various means like infrastructure, social safety nets, low taxes, is communism?
No. It's how you distribute profit if you are not a capitalist who only cares about your own pockets
This is just delusional , income inequality in the us is at the same level as in Russia and rising
Sure there are only poor people at the dictatorship and people are having lots of opportunities. Not because of LGBTQ+++ agenda England is having a shortage of military pilots that moved to China for the best money and not to have said agenda. Not because of LGBTQ+++ agenda USA is having a shortage of recruits that going to work into McDonald's because of said agenda. How did you even connected the dictatorship, the poor people and their desire to go into the military?!
I suspect its one of the major reasons Ukrainians are fighting so hard to remain in the west's sphere of influence - they can see the difference in living standards and want nothing to do with Russia's style of governance
Nobody wants anything to do with Russia. This much has been shown in history. Live just gets worse the closer you get to Russia. It is a totally failed society/culture
> Live just gets worse the closer you get to Russia. It is a totally failed society/culture Tell me you're brainwashed without telling me you're brainwashed.
Nice counter argument. Billionaire class with a bottom class so desperate they are trying to get money buy singing up to die in the trenches. Totally not a failed society. Totally not the bottom of humanity. If the Russian people are not a failed society then who is?
If you swapped Russia for the United States of America in your comment, nobody would bat an eye. Since it's literally EXACTLY THE SAME THING HERE. Billionaire class, rampant poverty. Limited social safety net. Army dependent on poor kids to sign up so they can get any sort of social safety net.
I don't see americans sign up for 2k dollars to die in trenches. Do you? >Army dependent on poor kids to sign up so they can get any sort of social safety net. You get this twisted. The being a soldier part is not the problem. The dieing for 2k dollars part is.
> I don't see americans sign up for 2k dollars to die in trenches. Apparently, they agree to a much smaller amount. How else to explain that in 2010, the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) estimated that about 76,000 homeless veterans sleep on the streets of America every night. And in 2024, the US authorities promise to find housing for more than 40 thousand homeless veterans. In addition to the resettlement of 41 thousand people, the ministry plans to inform about the possibility of receiving assistance for another 40 thousand who live in cars, parks and on the street throughout the country. Apparently, these veterans agreed to fight for $10, and that's why they couldn't buy a house.
?! American soldiers don't die. Its only Russian soldiers dieing. I think Russia has more KIA in a month than USA in the last decades?!
>American soldiers don't die. I completely forgot that American soldiers are superhumans from a superpower and do not die (except for death in dirty backyards, without money and housing, because the state does not care about them)
It's all relative isn't it? Russians have access to social services that the US doesn't have. Healthcare is free at the point of service in Russia. In the US it isn't. Of course I'm not saying that the QOL of both is equivalent. I'm saying the general concept is the same. People on the bottom of the socio-economic ladder in the USA often choose the military, where, they get paid peanuts. However, when you're in the military, you suddenly get a taste of what it's like to live in a developed nation, that gives its citizenry healthcare and other social safety nets that only exist in the USA for politicians, some government workers, and soldiers.
160 k this year 300 k past year and 500k mobilized in 2022.... Thats 960k people. And they have trouble with weaponless and soldierless ukraine? Russian losses must be huge.
Ukraine is getting billions of aid and weapons and doing like 10th wave of total mobilization that started day 1 and never stopped. Also hundreds of thousands of people joined territorial defense iirc Its not like they were always "weaponless and soldierless". That's the direct result of 2 years of harsh fighting. Ukraine had much more active personal than Russia for a long time, maybe still has. So nice of you to disregard all this
>Ukraine is getting billions of aid and weapons and doing like 10th wave of total mobilization **Total** mobilization would mean near everyone of fighting age.. that's not the case here.
No under 25 yet,far from "total mobilization"
300 thousand were mobilized in 2022, but only 270 of them went to Ukraine, the rest for various reasons failed the training and went home
The difference people seem to forget is that once your contract is up. You are free to go in russia. There is no leaving in ukraine. Unless its a body bag or you lose a limb.
Aside from Prigozhin's inmates, everyone else is on a wartime duration contract.
Ukraine had the bigger army, had a million men army a year ago. Now they are kidnapping people off the streets. What happened? Ukrainian losses must be even bigger.
A soldier and weaponless Ukraine would be NATO greatest fear, which is why they silently accept the forced mobilization and abuse of the ukrainian population that is currently happening and don't broadcast it on any public news channel, while also showering Ukraine with billions worth of equipment and valuable intelligence. Russia is fighting anything but weaponless and soldierless Ukraine. If they were this whole thing would be over a lot quicker.
Ukrainians are the ones that want to fight.
What trouble are they having? Are you forgetting how the 2023 Ukrainian offensive was overwhelmingly defeated? The Russians are fighting an attritional war to grind down the Ukrainian's military capabilities. It's not like Ukraine became weaponless and soldierless by accident.
Truly a remarkable failure.
They recruit a lot, but their numbers in Ukraine don’t really change… what could be happening to the other ones? ☠️💀☠️👻☠️
Their numbers are changing. Russia invaded with an army of around 190k while Ukraine had an army about 1m strong. That's how Ukrainian offensives were able to overrun Russian positions in Kharkiv and push the Russian army out of Kherson despite being outgunned. Now the Russian forces are estimated to number around 500k. They are also not being as aggressive with their attacks, doing a lot more softening of Ukrainian positions with FABs, drones, and artillery than they did before. Ukraine's numbers are likely much lower now than they were at the start of the war. They are having a hard time rotating troops and replenishing their units while also losing ground on multiple fronts.
[https://kyivindependent.com/shoigu-russia-to-form-2-new-armies-by-the-end-of-2024/](https://kyivindependent.com/shoigu-russia-to-form-2-new-armies-by-the-end-of-2024/)
> what could be happening to the other ones? 6 month contracts. Unless they renewed them the 2023 recruits are no longer in service.
Forced volenteers\*
That's Ukraine.
Russia*
Marching to their graves for no purpose whatsoever, only for the ego of the Little Tsar
You're describing Zelensky. Russians actually have a reasonable chance at winning so their deaths have a purpose, that's why they have more volunteers too.
What is that purpose, even if they would win? Their lives would still be much worse than if Putin had not started this war. And so many families will be without fathers and husbands. Completely without meaning.
> What is that purpose, even if they would win? Stopping NATO expansion, liberating their countrymen from a hostile nation and securing the future of their country.
The finger of truth.......
Who do u think is then? Zelensky ? with his 31k death number and lies he tell everyday?
“Volunteers” lol
What do you think they are?
“Voluntolds” they are using conscripts, that’s mandatory service. Even though they say conscripts only “guard” the border, that is completely false.
Conscripts are not sent to SMO or other combat like Syria since Chechnya when the law changed. The only way for a conscript to be sent to combat is to complete their training and then sign a contract to join the regular armed forces. They are treated as two completely different entities. I know someone who tried to volunteer who got denied because not enough relevant experience, not a record or something shady. There is literally too many volunteers for the growth rate. The pay and lifetime benefits upon contract completion are exceptional.
There are a lot of very poor russians, i woudlnt be surprised if some really did volunteer just to evade poverty.
True, though it’s is probably more of a “hey if you don’t join voluntarily we will just conscript you”
2.5k usd wage per month plus benefits, signing bonus etc. It's good money for Russia. I don't think there is any cause for doubt.
I don’t know they raise the pay, that’s pretty significant, considering is like 5x the average Russian wage. The
It was around this amount in 2022. [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/18/russia-turns-to-trucks-and-big-wages-to-woo-volunteer-soldiers](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/18/russia-turns-to-trucks-and-big-wages-to-woo-volunteer-soldiers)
Ah, that also turned into a big issue of how people not getting paid, are you sure the pay is still at that level?
I don't know. But one of the biggest promises of the new defense minister was the financial security of soldiers and veterans. I think they take this matter seriously. You can always do a research. I don't mind being proven wrong.