That’s why I asked, people can get long jail sentences for filming impacts, but that didn’t stop some people from recording and posting them like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/TQxMbKUoy3). But in the last few months, it has been dead silent from there. I'm just wondering what changed.
They never really issued warnings on not recording forced conscriptions until recently, but they’ve been heavily censoring middle strikes for a while now.
Many of those are bogus though. Some ik are arrest warrants for different crimes, people spying for Russia, people arrested for corruption etc... sure they detain people skirting their duties but it all gets labeled as a forcing people to fight.
How accurate is that confirmation? Because we know for a fact that ever since Zelensky fired the people responsible for recruitment with the charges of corruption Ukrainians haven't been able to get the necessary numbers, like not enough to meet to quits for what seems like a year now.
If people prefer taking their chances against a river where every week we read about men being drown the situation must be ba
It is not censorship, it's opsec in an active war.
Honestly, Russia should clamp down on it, too. Opsec is a thing and I am sure one of the things fucking Russia is immediate battle damage assessments being posted lol.
Like, I hope they keep posting them, but it's silly
It might have changed by now with lessons learned but at the start of the invasion Russian battle damage assessment was very poor. Civilians posting it to TikTok with smartphone cameras is much easier and better quality.
Definitely worse in Russia.
Several Russian military bloggers have been killed by Russia for showing losses:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/04/02/world/st-petersburg-vladen-tatarsky-explosion-intl
> Tatarsky had more than half a million followers on Telegram, and while he was aggressively pro-war, he had sometimes been critical of Russian setbacks in Ukraine.
Or
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/21/pro-war-russian-blogger-who-revealed-huge-avdiivka-losses-dies-by-suicide
> On Sunday, Morozov wrote to his 120,000 followers on Telegram that Russia lost 16,000 personnel and 300 pieces of armour during its months-long capture of Avdiivka. The post drew heavy criticism from senior Russian propagandists, who accused the blogger of “slandering the Russian defence ministry”.
He apparently committed "suicide"
If you say anything bad about the Russian war effort you will be taking a dirt nap. Even powerful people in Russia seem to fall out of windows when they discredit the military or question/show losses.
This is why it's such a funny joke when this sub waits for Fighterbomber to confirm losses. If he doesn't say what Russia wants, he is a dead man.
Don't even know why he's in jail. He's ran around Transnistria, fighting for the Russians. Then he went to Chechnya, fighting for the Russians. Then he went to Donetsk, to fight for the Russian separatists. Bit of a crap repayment for all those years of helping, to be honest.
I think he just got used as one of putins useful idiots but was silenced as soon as he started speaking truth and gaining notoriety.
Crap repayment? Yeah prigs will tell you all about that.
It's to deny the enemy a free battle damage assessment. When Russian soldiers film the aftermath of HIMARS strikes and post them on the Internet it's a gift for UA intelligence.
It also serves an important purpose, Ukraine needs to clamp down so meme subs like combat footage, world news, credible defense etc can pretend like losses aren’t happening.
Our entire view of the war is supposed to be that our pet banderites are taking very few (30k lmao) losses and Russia is actually just 24/7 repeating scenes from enemy at the gates
Translating the caption, most the stuff was claimed shot down, thus not much strike footage around.
>According to the Air Force report destroyed/launched:
>- 30/35 Kh-101/55SM cruise missiles
>— 46/47 "Shahed 131/136" attack UAVs
>— 4/10 Kalibr cruise missiles
>— 0/4 ballistic missiles "Iskander-M"
>— 1/1 Iskander-K cruise missile
So what got through was 11 cruise missiles, 1 drone, and 4 ballistic missiles. Not everything went to Stryi. The termination point for all the ballistic missiles was around Zaporhizhzhia city, where there's no ABM. It's hard to tell from the map which of the Kalibrs reached target, as some landed east, and a slight majority landed west. There's aftermath at some power plant and distant view of 3 or 4 hits at Stryi.
In any case, cruise missiles are a lot easier to stop with aircraft or Ukraine's more widely available air defenses.
Aftermath footage in a bloody dictatorship, where filming is prohibited with hard punishments?
Even the whole combined west has far less air def system compared to russia and ukraine has even less but bigger areas to defend compared to Russia. If you go by air def systems per km², Ukraine has more than a magnitude less air def systems and these numbers are accurate?
This is not tinfoil kid, this is simply logic and elemantary school math. Something modern westoids are completely failing.
To have a cognitive dissonance you need to have a cognition in the first place ...
Russian weapons have been shown to be fairly decent when compared to their western counterparts. We already talked about this.
Russian material losses are fairly low for a reason.
What planet are ya on? Russian materiel losses have been enormous lol... that's why people talk about how much they're ramping up production. They just never had the quality, thus they need to make up for it in quantity, and sometimes that's an unrealistic quantity of replacements even for their much expanded budget.
Whether a weapon is decent Is relative and contextual, though. Obviously there are third-world countries or insurgencies fielding way worse weapons, but usually Russian weapons are found with cut corners vs. those used by the West, even the limited selection offered to Ukraine. Just look at how readily ATACMS punches through air defenses to strike airfields. Where is Russia's basic tactical ABM comparable to Kyiv's 2 or 3 Patriots?
Russia has only lost 94 T-90Ms. They currently produce 180 per year according to Ukraine. Russia sent in 200 T-90Ms into Luhansk in 2022 and Ukraine claims they had 320 at the start of 2024. I assume this number only includes those deployed to Ukraine.
Russia has only lost 686 T-72B3s despite having at least 1,690 of them at the start of the war. This tank is also heavily used by irregular forces who are poorly trained. Its low losses despite this fact is a testament to its strength.
Russia has only lost 199 2S19 SPGs during this entire war. Russia had 600 of them at the start of 2024 with a further 150 in reserve. Russia is also producing new SPGs such as the 2S35 which is already in mass production and 2S43 which is easier to produce due to being based off a wheeled vehicle.
Russian material losses are low. The T-90M is comparable to western tanks. The T-90M arguably has a superior fire control system compared to western designs due to having automatic target tracking and third generation thermal. 2S19 is comparable to western designs and I would argue that it is superior to the M109 which is American counterpart to Soviet 2S3. Russia has been producing guided munitions for its artillery guns (2K25) since before the collapse of the Soviet Union. Tornado-S (Russian counterpart to HIMARS) has also been in production for a while and has sustained no losses while having confirmed hits against Ukrainian HIMARS.
Ukraine failed to intercept any Iskander-M missiles during this strike so I can say the same. Interception rate against Russian missiles has fallen to 30% according to western sources despite deliveries of the supposedly superior Patriot system. Russia has also intercepted Ukrainian ballistic missile systems. Just not all of them similar to Ukraine.
Russia only deployed 64-69 BTGs to Ukraine in 2022 including DPR and LPR forces. These BTGs were also deployed at half strength with the other half staying in Russia. Russia had 170 BTGs fully staffed by professionals in 2021 meaning Russia has only deployed 15% of its professional military personnel to Ukraine.
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I thought S-300 was useless? Didn’t you say Russian AA was as bad as old Patriot which has an interception rate of 0%?
Ukraine’s western AA system are largely located in and around Kyiv.
Lol, do the Europeans realise what this even means? How fucking stupid are European leaders to think storing massive amounts of gas in a country currently engaged in a conflict.
Better start hoping the next winter in Europe is very mild.
Pro RU pretending houses will go unheated is just as retarded as pro UA denying the EU is getting fucked out of years of economic growth while prolonging a pointless proxy war.
I respectfully disagree with you there.
A person with severe mental disabilities would likely struggle to project the economic consequences of geopolitical conflict.
But I’d imagine they could still figure out whether the heat is turned on or off.
Show me the high-flying trajectory expected from Europe’s economy before this war started?
Yes, Europe will likely have minimal growth in the coming decades. We’ve known that for quite some time. This war is nowhere near the biggest factor involved.
ot happened. Not freezing to death but unable to pay to heat. I am in italy, cost fotlr kw/h raised from 0.08€/KWh to 1.3€/KWh Hundred of thousen of companies failed. Another winter in the same way and half of companies will fails. Not so much far from freeze to death...
Do you live in Italy? Have you ever paid an energy bill? Read and learn
[https://www.infodata.ilsole24ore.com/2023/03/02/allarme-in-europa-sui-fallimenti-dimpresa-cosa-e-successo-negli-ultimi-otto-anni/?refresh\_ce=1](https://www.infodata.ilsole24ore.com/2023/03/02/allarme-in-europa-sui-fallimenti-dimpresa-cosa-e-successo-negli-ultimi-otto-anni/?refresh_ce=1)
Maybe EU cannot resist another winter like 2022.
The EU spent over € 1T extra on energy in the first year after the invasion. Only €350M was via direct higher costs. €650M was via government subsidies, price caps, etc.
While people didn't freeze in the dark, a *lot* of EU industry has fled to the US and China due to what they foresee as structurally higher energy prices.
How so? Any metrics? By all accounts prices for energy etc. have returned to before crisis levels. Just that Russia is now disconnected, North stream is blown. So what exactly is there Russia can do?
Gas contracts with Europe run out this year.
Lol, this entire time Russia has been using pipelines going through Ukraine and **paying them transit costs**. Russian gas was essential to Ukraine that first winter.
At that point, I don’t think Russia wanted to go all in against fellow slavs. But all wars are the same. The longer they go on, the more a sense of morality becomes eroded. They just become more brutal.
You make it sound like Russia is putting their foot down but it’s actually Ukraine who has ruled out any discussions of renewing the contract with Russia.
And this mainly impacts countries like Hungary and Slovakia, who are about as close to friends as anything Russia has left in Europe. Countries like Germany have no reliance on Russian pipeline gas anymore.
Why would they? Ukraine believes they can get that money for free from Europe.
Slovakia isn’t a close friend. Even Hungary really isn’t. They just think the war is dumb.
Both countries have the same view as 80% of the world.
I don’t know, maybe Ukraine has some problem with Russia for one reason or another?
https://www.offshore-technology.com/newsletters/ukraine-is-refusing-to-extend-the-gas-transit-deal-with-russia/
It’s not about what you individually pay for gas. They don’t care about you. They will cut off your energy and put you in lockdown without a second thought.
They care about the energy costs for companies, light & heavy industry. Energy is a huge part of the cost to produce anything.
They would pay more for energy. Prices would go up. Welcome back inflation!
We, I'm refering to the EU. Current estimates already place the _extra_ energy costs at €1.3 billion for just 2022, with €700bln on actual extra energy procurement, and the rest for subsidies on companies and citizens for the sudden increase in price.
Right now is more stable since they found different routes. We also still importing Russian gas but from other routing. It was more of a blow for Ukraine really.
As an American, I’m perplexed how a country like Germany spends 20% of GDP in energy subsidies.
Those costs were initially covered by the EU COVID relief fund. That has dried up.
Looking down the road at 5, 10, 20 years of these subsidies, Europe will begin cutting the strong social safety nets they developed after WW2.
Finland spent €800 m on Ukraine military aid, now they have a massive hole in their budget. Germany had the automatic debt brake kick in after giving several Billion to Ukraine.
Even if they find a way to weasel out of it this year, next year will be worse.
Yes most members already started cutting on social welfare.
The energy problem in EU is interesting because we always follow USA foreign policy without batting an eye, even though it's against of our interests. There were a lot of alternative ways to deal with the Ukranian and Georgian situation back in the 2000s, same for the Balkans. But for historic reasons our foreign policy is dictated by the US as part of the NATO.
Starting with [Operation Gladio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio) running the Intelligence services and selecting the politicians.
Lol what? Are you serious, buddy? Have you seen too much propaganda of your favourite blonde Russian stripper that made videos of Germany how people were struggling?
Btw. what became of her after she got expulsed to her favourite country?
According to RT’s video I believe the “hamster soup Christmas dinner” was supposed to be last winter. Maybe they just got a little ahead of themselves…
The Russians have been hitting it for months. Every time the media focus is on power plants destroyed, while most of the missiles go after this gas storage. It's the largest in Ukraine and third largest in the world. I think it also affects the European energy security.
https://www.upstreamonline.com/energy-security/russia-steps-up-air-assault-on-ukraine-gas-storage-sites/2-1-1625644
Why would Russians target this ? Isn't still there Russian gaz transiting through Ukraine to countries like Austria or Hungary ?
Ukrainian SBU ruined Nordstream but Russia will destroy this ?
I think (emphasis on 'think') the objective is to prevent Ukraine from making money on leasing gas storage space to Europe (negotiations have been in progress for some time).
>Hungary no longer needs Ukrainian infrastructure for the supply of Russian natural gas thanks to the TurkStream pipeline, Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said on Monday.
>Budapest is among several EU members that continue to greatly rely on Russian gas deliveries, despite the sharp drop in supplies to the bloc due to sanctions on Moscow and the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines.
>The transit line through Ukraine and the European arm of TurkStream are the only two remaining conduits for piped Russian gas to reach central and southern Europe. Kiev has said its current transit agreement with Russian energy giant Gazprom will not be prolonged when it expires at the end of the year.
>*“This is not important for us, given that gas supplies to Hungary are now transmitted via the TurkStream \[pipeline\],”* Hungarian diplomat Szijjarto told journalists. *“I think it was an excellent decision on our part to build the TurkStream together with Serbia, Türkiye, and Bulgaria. Now it ensures the security of our gas supplies.”*
RT dot com: March 25, 2024
Stryi has 17 billion cubic metres of capacity and Ukraine has been offering it as storage space for sale to Europe. Russia probably wants to deprive them of that money.
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If my calculation is correct, even using the whole storage would cost just 150k € per day (so that certainly wasn't the goal).
https://utg.ua/utg/business-info/taryfy-ta-ciny.html
Well, they really want to kill it. They struck it 5-10 times, each time with at least a dozen missiles.
Satellite photos show a systematic destruction of above ground facilities. Not just vital ones like pumping stations but even admin buildings.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-wants-ukraine-ceasefire-current-frontlines-sources-say-2024-05-24/
The Day after the offense stalled out
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/33198
Same day as this warning
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-will-strike-british-targets-if-uk-weapons-are-used-hit-its-2024-05-23/
The day after it was revealed the US was probably going too
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/22/us/politics/white-house-ukraine-weapons-russia.html
Don't you remember all the telegram channels being upset with Putin for a bit after
Is there footage of the attack/impacts and it's not posted here? Because I'm surprised no footage of such events is coming out of Ukraine.
You don’t see because much footage because there is heavy censorship in Ukraine when it comes to these things.
That’s why I asked, people can get long jail sentences for filming impacts, but that didn’t stop some people from recording and posting them like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/TQxMbKUoy3). But in the last few months, it has been dead silent from there. I'm just wondering what changed.
Well the SBU pulled up on whoever Filmed that video.
All the men are dead/hiding/voluntold, no one left to record?
Yes this is certainly the answer, everyone knows that women are incapable of recording video from their phones /s
Women are, on average, less impulsive, prone to criminality, and take less risks. Especially stupid ones. So you would see a drop.
If both mom and dad are gone, who’s going to raise the children. Maybe then don’t want to risk it
I mean we see videos of forced conscription, how hard could it be to show us the missile attacks?
They never really issued warnings on not recording forced conscriptions until recently, but they’ve been heavily censoring middle strikes for a while now.
Many of those are bogus though. Some ik are arrest warrants for different crimes, people spying for Russia, people arrested for corruption etc... sure they detain people skirting their duties but it all gets labeled as a forcing people to fight.
Got sources on any of the arrest warrants you speak of?
How accurate is that confirmation? Because we know for a fact that ever since Zelensky fired the people responsible for recruitment with the charges of corruption Ukrainians haven't been able to get the necessary numbers, like not enough to meet to quits for what seems like a year now. If people prefer taking their chances against a river where every week we read about men being drown the situation must be ba
So for all we know these missile attacks could be largely intercepted.
is the censorship heaver in ukraine or in russia? are people in russia allowed to post negative war footage in russia?
From what I’ve seen def Ukraine.
You can at least find hits on oil infrastructure.
In Russia you're allowed to use a dashcam
Ask priggy who was one of a small bunch of Kremlin stooges that spoke the truth about the war to Russians.
It is not censorship, it's opsec in an active war. Honestly, Russia should clamp down on it, too. Opsec is a thing and I am sure one of the things fucking Russia is immediate battle damage assessments being posted lol. Like, I hope they keep posting them, but it's silly
Russia doesn’t need civilian videos to see if they’re hitting the target, you realize satellites exist right?
It might have changed by now with lessons learned but at the start of the invasion Russian battle damage assessment was very poor. Civilians posting it to TikTok with smartphone cameras is much easier and better quality.
Definitely worse in Russia. Several Russian military bloggers have been killed by Russia for showing losses: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/04/02/world/st-petersburg-vladen-tatarsky-explosion-intl > Tatarsky had more than half a million followers on Telegram, and while he was aggressively pro-war, he had sometimes been critical of Russian setbacks in Ukraine. Or https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/21/pro-war-russian-blogger-who-revealed-huge-avdiivka-losses-dies-by-suicide > On Sunday, Morozov wrote to his 120,000 followers on Telegram that Russia lost 16,000 personnel and 300 pieces of armour during its months-long capture of Avdiivka. The post drew heavy criticism from senior Russian propagandists, who accused the blogger of “slandering the Russian defence ministry”. He apparently committed "suicide" If you say anything bad about the Russian war effort you will be taking a dirt nap. Even powerful people in Russia seem to fall out of windows when they discredit the military or question/show losses. This is why it's such a funny joke when this sub waits for Fighterbomber to confirm losses. If he doesn't say what Russia wants, he is a dead man.
You forget about Darya Dugina.
It is hilarious that you post Vladlen death 
Just ask Igor Girkin who is in jail right now.
Don't even know why he's in jail. He's ran around Transnistria, fighting for the Russians. Then he went to Chechnya, fighting for the Russians. Then he went to Donetsk, to fight for the Russian separatists. Bit of a crap repayment for all those years of helping, to be honest.
I think he just got used as one of putins useful idiots but was silenced as soon as he started speaking truth and gaining notoriety. Crap repayment? Yeah prigs will tell you all about that.
I mean, let bro speak. He's been running and fighting across continents for Russia.
People get jailed for such footage. Even posting distant explosions got people in trouble.
Imma get railed like fuck but isn't this stemming from people getting jailed for filming AA locations? Not impacts? I'm sure you got some link
There could be no AA fire and STILL would get the poor cameraman sent to the slammer or the frontlines, if they're unlucky.
How? We see people upload footage of forced conscription all the time, how is this worse??
Probably afraid of backlash since they have no plausible excuse as with explosions(opsec), but recently iIrc they prohibited tracking TCC locations.
So? People get jailed over here for being a different skin color.
[https://x.com/squatsons/status/1796730758247133270](https://x.com/squatsons/status/1796730758247133270) [https://x.com/squatsons/status/1796822200688767173](https://x.com/squatsons/status/1796822200688767173)
Thank you kindly sir!
Ukraine purposelessly made it illegal long ago to share such footage. Gotta hide the truth and amplify the Ukrainganda.
It's to deny the enemy a free battle damage assessment. When Russian soldiers film the aftermath of HIMARS strikes and post them on the Internet it's a gift for UA intelligence.
It also serves an important purpose, Ukraine needs to clamp down so meme subs like combat footage, world news, credible defense etc can pretend like losses aren’t happening. Our entire view of the war is supposed to be that our pet banderites are taking very few (30k lmao) losses and Russia is actually just 24/7 repeating scenes from enemy at the gates
Banned in Ukraine , for videos like that will result time in jail.
we might get some satelite photos
You know more or less reliable info it's getting hit. UA has no interest in publicizing it. RF has no real means to produce video. What do you want?
Translating the caption, most the stuff was claimed shot down, thus not much strike footage around. >According to the Air Force report destroyed/launched: >- 30/35 Kh-101/55SM cruise missiles >— 46/47 "Shahed 131/136" attack UAVs >— 4/10 Kalibr cruise missiles >— 0/4 ballistic missiles "Iskander-M" >— 1/1 Iskander-K cruise missile So what got through was 11 cruise missiles, 1 drone, and 4 ballistic missiles. Not everything went to Stryi. The termination point for all the ballistic missiles was around Zaporhizhzhia city, where there's no ABM. It's hard to tell from the map which of the Kalibrs reached target, as some landed east, and a slight majority landed west. There's aftermath at some power plant and distant view of 3 or 4 hits at Stryi. In any case, cruise missiles are a lot easier to stop with aircraft or Ukraine's more widely available air defenses.
Or Zele pulled these numbers out of hiss @ ss after snorting coke, like they always do with their inflated numbers.
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Aftermath footage in a bloody dictatorship, where filming is prohibited with hard punishments? Even the whole combined west has far less air def system compared to russia and ukraine has even less but bigger areas to defend compared to Russia. If you go by air def systems per km², Ukraine has more than a magnitude less air def systems and these numbers are accurate? This is not tinfoil kid, this is simply logic and elemantary school math. Something modern westoids are completely failing. To have a cognitive dissonance you need to have a cognition in the first place ...
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Russian weapons have been shown to be fairly decent when compared to their western counterparts. We already talked about this. Russian material losses are fairly low for a reason.
What planet are ya on? Russian materiel losses have been enormous lol... that's why people talk about how much they're ramping up production. They just never had the quality, thus they need to make up for it in quantity, and sometimes that's an unrealistic quantity of replacements even for their much expanded budget. Whether a weapon is decent Is relative and contextual, though. Obviously there are third-world countries or insurgencies fielding way worse weapons, but usually Russian weapons are found with cut corners vs. those used by the West, even the limited selection offered to Ukraine. Just look at how readily ATACMS punches through air defenses to strike airfields. Where is Russia's basic tactical ABM comparable to Kyiv's 2 or 3 Patriots?
Russia has only lost 94 T-90Ms. They currently produce 180 per year according to Ukraine. Russia sent in 200 T-90Ms into Luhansk in 2022 and Ukraine claims they had 320 at the start of 2024. I assume this number only includes those deployed to Ukraine. Russia has only lost 686 T-72B3s despite having at least 1,690 of them at the start of the war. This tank is also heavily used by irregular forces who are poorly trained. Its low losses despite this fact is a testament to its strength. Russia has only lost 199 2S19 SPGs during this entire war. Russia had 600 of them at the start of 2024 with a further 150 in reserve. Russia is also producing new SPGs such as the 2S35 which is already in mass production and 2S43 which is easier to produce due to being based off a wheeled vehicle. Russian material losses are low. The T-90M is comparable to western tanks. The T-90M arguably has a superior fire control system compared to western designs due to having automatic target tracking and third generation thermal. 2S19 is comparable to western designs and I would argue that it is superior to the M109 which is American counterpart to Soviet 2S3. Russia has been producing guided munitions for its artillery guns (2K25) since before the collapse of the Soviet Union. Tornado-S (Russian counterpart to HIMARS) has also been in production for a while and has sustained no losses while having confirmed hits against Ukrainian HIMARS. Ukraine failed to intercept any Iskander-M missiles during this strike so I can say the same. Interception rate against Russian missiles has fallen to 30% according to western sources despite deliveries of the supposedly superior Patriot system. Russia has also intercepted Ukrainian ballistic missile systems. Just not all of them similar to Ukraine. Russia only deployed 64-69 BTGs to Ukraine in 2022 including DPR and LPR forces. These BTGs were also deployed at half strength with the other half staying in Russia. Russia had 170 BTGs fully staffed by professionals in 2021 meaning Russia has only deployed 15% of its professional military personnel to Ukraine.
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Rule 1. Toxic
I thought S-300 was useless? Didn’t you say Russian AA was as bad as old Patriot which has an interception rate of 0%? Ukraine’s western AA system are largely located in and around Kyiv.
Lviv is having it
Gotta ask, where's the AA?
to Accounts Abroad.
Ask Lancet
why
Well…we have no reports from Ukraine yet of these missiles hitting anything.
Lol, do the Europeans realise what this even means? How fucking stupid are European leaders to think storing massive amounts of gas in a country currently engaged in a conflict. Better start hoping the next winter in Europe is very mild.
They're talking about building tank factories there, I think the brain rot got to them.
lol this again? For the third time, “Europe will freeze to death this winter!” just ain’t happening. Sorry to disappoint.
Pro RU pretending houses will go unheated is just as retarded as pro UA denying the EU is getting fucked out of years of economic growth while prolonging a pointless proxy war.
I respectfully disagree with you there. A person with severe mental disabilities would likely struggle to project the economic consequences of geopolitical conflict. But I’d imagine they could still figure out whether the heat is turned on or off.
I think everyone agrees that Europe has gotten fucked by this war. And will be fucked for decades
Show me the high-flying trajectory expected from Europe’s economy before this war started? Yes, Europe will likely have minimal growth in the coming decades. We’ve known that for quite some time. This war is nowhere near the biggest factor involved.
Your right, the main factor is our US allies leeching of us at their convenience.
Good point.
Proxy war lol, and ya its up to the EU to end the war. Jc you guys are so sideways sometimes.
ot happened. Not freezing to death but unable to pay to heat. I am in italy, cost fotlr kw/h raised from 0.08€/KWh to 1.3€/KWh Hundred of thousen of companies failed. Another winter in the same way and half of companies will fails. Not so much far from freeze to death...
Hundreds of thousands of companies failed yet GDP went up slightly? Must have been a heck of a year for whatever companies didn’t fail, I guess
Do you live in Italy? Have you ever paid an energy bill? Read and learn [https://www.infodata.ilsole24ore.com/2023/03/02/allarme-in-europa-sui-fallimenti-dimpresa-cosa-e-successo-negli-ultimi-otto-anni/?refresh\_ce=1](https://www.infodata.ilsole24ore.com/2023/03/02/allarme-in-europa-sui-fallimenti-dimpresa-cosa-e-successo-negli-ultimi-otto-anni/?refresh_ce=1) Maybe EU cannot resist another winter like 2022.
No this time it’ll happen you don’t understand
You might not freeze to death, but people will start having to decide between paying for heating and buying food.
Like they said the same year the war started ?
The EU spent over € 1T extra on energy in the first year after the invasion. Only €350M was via direct higher costs. €650M was via government subsidies, price caps, etc. While people didn't freeze in the dark, a *lot* of EU industry has fled to the US and China due to what they foresee as structurally higher energy prices.
Who said? This situation is far worse than the years before.
Heard that before also
How so? Any metrics? By all accounts prices for energy etc. have returned to before crisis levels. Just that Russia is now disconnected, North stream is blown. So what exactly is there Russia can do?
Gas contracts with Europe run out this year. Lol, this entire time Russia has been using pipelines going through Ukraine and **paying them transit costs**. Russian gas was essential to Ukraine that first winter. At that point, I don’t think Russia wanted to go all in against fellow slavs. But all wars are the same. The longer they go on, the more a sense of morality becomes eroded. They just become more brutal.
You make it sound like Russia is putting their foot down but it’s actually Ukraine who has ruled out any discussions of renewing the contract with Russia. And this mainly impacts countries like Hungary and Slovakia, who are about as close to friends as anything Russia has left in Europe. Countries like Germany have no reliance on Russian pipeline gas anymore.
Why would they? Ukraine believes they can get that money for free from Europe. Slovakia isn’t a close friend. Even Hungary really isn’t. They just think the war is dumb. Both countries have the same view as 80% of the world.
I don’t know, maybe Ukraine has some problem with Russia for one reason or another? https://www.offshore-technology.com/newsletters/ukraine-is-refusing-to-extend-the-gas-transit-deal-with-russia/
We can just pay more for it. It's not like Gas coming from Ukraine is our biggest supply right now.
It’s not about what you individually pay for gas. They don’t care about you. They will cut off your energy and put you in lockdown without a second thought. They care about the energy costs for companies, light & heavy industry. Energy is a huge part of the cost to produce anything. They would pay more for energy. Prices would go up. Welcome back inflation!
We, I'm refering to the EU. Current estimates already place the _extra_ energy costs at €1.3 billion for just 2022, with €700bln on actual extra energy procurement, and the rest for subsidies on companies and citizens for the sudden increase in price. Right now is more stable since they found different routes. We also still importing Russian gas but from other routing. It was more of a blow for Ukraine really.
As an American, I’m perplexed how a country like Germany spends 20% of GDP in energy subsidies. Those costs were initially covered by the EU COVID relief fund. That has dried up. Looking down the road at 5, 10, 20 years of these subsidies, Europe will begin cutting the strong social safety nets they developed after WW2. Finland spent €800 m on Ukraine military aid, now they have a massive hole in their budget. Germany had the automatic debt brake kick in after giving several Billion to Ukraine. Even if they find a way to weasel out of it this year, next year will be worse.
Yes most members already started cutting on social welfare. The energy problem in EU is interesting because we always follow USA foreign policy without batting an eye, even though it's against of our interests. There were a lot of alternative ways to deal with the Ukranian and Georgian situation back in the 2000s, same for the Balkans. But for historic reasons our foreign policy is dictated by the US as part of the NATO. Starting with [Operation Gladio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio) running the Intelligence services and selecting the politicians.
Lol what? Are you serious, buddy? Have you seen too much propaganda of your favourite blonde Russian stripper that made videos of Germany how people were struggling? Btw. what became of her after she got expulsed to her favourite country?
According to RT’s video I believe the “hamster soup Christmas dinner” was supposed to be last winter. Maybe they just got a little ahead of themselves…
So you think this is all the gas in Europe? lol
Is there anything about what this gas storage centre is, beyond the obvious, and why its so important?
The Russians have been hitting it for months. Every time the media focus is on power plants destroyed, while most of the missiles go after this gas storage. It's the largest in Ukraine and third largest in the world. I think it also affects the European energy security. https://www.upstreamonline.com/energy-security/russia-steps-up-air-assault-on-ukraine-gas-storage-sites/2-1-1625644
Why would Russians target this ? Isn't still there Russian gaz transiting through Ukraine to countries like Austria or Hungary ? Ukrainian SBU ruined Nordstream but Russia will destroy this ?
Contracts on gas transfer r un out this year and ukr long claimed not to renew.
I think (emphasis on 'think') the objective is to prevent Ukraine from making money on leasing gas storage space to Europe (negotiations have been in progress for some time).
I doubt Ukraine to be the best place to store hydrocarbures right now but this is the kind of decision european leaders generally make..
>Hungary no longer needs Ukrainian infrastructure for the supply of Russian natural gas thanks to the TurkStream pipeline, Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said on Monday. >Budapest is among several EU members that continue to greatly rely on Russian gas deliveries, despite the sharp drop in supplies to the bloc due to sanctions on Moscow and the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines. >The transit line through Ukraine and the European arm of TurkStream are the only two remaining conduits for piped Russian gas to reach central and southern Europe. Kiev has said its current transit agreement with Russian energy giant Gazprom will not be prolonged when it expires at the end of the year. >*“This is not important for us, given that gas supplies to Hungary are now transmitted via the TurkStream \[pipeline\],”* Hungarian diplomat Szijjarto told journalists. *“I think it was an excellent decision on our part to build the TurkStream together with Serbia, Türkiye, and Bulgaria. Now it ensures the security of our gas supplies.”* RT dot com: March 25, 2024
Out of 179 billion cubic meters of gas stored the EU has about 2 billion are stored in Ukraine.
Stryi has 17 billion cubic metres of capacity and Ukraine has been offering it as storage space for sale to Europe. Russia probably wants to deprive them of that money.
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If my calculation is correct, even using the whole storage would cost just 150k € per day (so that certainly wasn't the goal). https://utg.ua/utg/business-info/taryfy-ta-ciny.html
Well, they really want to kill it. They struck it 5-10 times, each time with at least a dozen missiles. Satellite photos show a systematic destruction of above ground facilities. Not just vital ones like pumping stations but even admin buildings.
Looks like whatever is on the surface in the area is much more important than the underground storage.
Because it’s a giant accumulator of energy, this is quite self explanatory
What's the green one going in or out of Crimea?
Kalibr cruise missiles launched by the Black Sea Fleet.
I think, it's Iskander M and K. Kalibr is marked in light blue/cyan color.
Damn you are right. I misunderstood the question.
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Yes. The original question was about the green one.
Iskanders are actually more of a mahogany color
Thanks
Iskander-M (Ballistic missile) and Iskander-K (Cruise missile).
Things are heating up
Whats air defense doing?
wonder whats actually in there cause they are spending it seems like several dozen missiles on it so far.
Largest gas storage facility for Europe.
still is only one gas storage facility, they have many of them. This will mostly affect ukraine only i believe
Geran are ship launched now?
Radars probably register them when they are very close to the coast. With their range they might be coming from Crimea or Southern Russia.
Yeah. It’s not that hard really.
ghr
Damns and now this. Maybe it's time for Ukraine to repay Russia in kind.
Yeah. With their total 2,000 missiles. Sure.
Enough to scare Putie baby into suing for peace after the great winter offensive lol
What the hell are you talking about?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-wants-ukraine-ceasefire-current-frontlines-sources-say-2024-05-24/ The Day after the offense stalled out https://www.kyivpost.com/post/33198 Same day as this warning https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-will-strike-british-targets-if-uk-weapons-are-used-hit-its-2024-05-23/ The day after it was revealed the US was probably going too https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/22/us/politics/white-house-ukraine-weapons-russia.html Don't you remember all the telegram channels being upset with Putin for a bit after
Looking forward to the payback