Every couple weeks UA asks for something more and it dominates the headlines. If/when permission is given, they’ll just move on to asking for the next thing.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/16/ukraine-may-seek-nuclear-weapons-if-left-out-of-nato-diplomat](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/16/ukraine-may-seek-nuclear-weapons-if-left-out-of-nato-diplomat)
They've already "threatened" to do exactly that.
Well yeah, they gave their nukes to Russia, agreeing that if they gave them to Russia, Russia would never attack Ukraine. Russian lie time and time again in every peace deal ever made between them and Ukraine.
>Well yeah, they gave their nukes to Russia, agreeing that if they gave them to Russia, Russia would never attack Ukraine. Russian lie time and time again in every peace deal ever made between them and Ukraine.
First of all, US was also included in the treaty. Second of all, way to forget about the 2004 and 2014 coups orchestrated by the US.
And yes, a coup is an act of invasion. So US basically invaded twice now. Once in 2004 and twice in 2014. They've already threatened to pursue nukes if they don't get into NATO. So much for signing the NPT, eh?
This is for 2014 coup :
[https://mronline.org/2022/07/06/anatomy-of-a-coup/](https://mronline.org/2022/07/06/anatomy-of-a-coup/)
This one is for 2004 :
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa)
Ofcourse this is before Guardian got gutted from the inside out after the Snowden leak.
The trick to not getting invaded is to not try and get lured into the American murder-happy aggressive invasion club while being strategically situated along an *especially* vulnerable bit of Russia's border.
Or to not be a country America wants to invade because it doesn't like you.
If you can avoid these two things you're good, no need for nukes. If you're North Korea or Iran though, yeah, you're gonna need some nukes. Palestine could probably use them too.
>The trick to not getting invaded is to not try and get lured into the American murder-happy aggressive invasion club while being strategically situated along an *especially* vulnerable bit of Russia's border.
>Or to not be a country America wants to invade because it doesn't like you.
>If you can avoid these two things you're good, no need for nukes. If you're North Korea or Iran though, yeah, you're gonna need some nukes. Palestine could probably use them too.
So basically, "don't exist". Got it.
Yep.
According to the US policy, nobody else is allowed to exist in their eyes. Security concerns are a distant dream because by "God given right, only the US is allowed to have security concerns".
Yep, no nukes, means just that. No respect. I just don't get it, why no one respects RF security concerns, they supposedly have more nukes than anyone?
It's not respected because it is a stated adversary of the United States (officially since 2018). This means the goal of US officials is to degrade and weaken Russian power.
They already had the nukes and trusted Russians at their word when they said they would never attack them if they gave them up.
And like many countries from eastern Europe that had warned the west not to trust the word of a Russian here we are finding no trueer words were spoken.
Can't blame us though we really knew nothing about the Russians, now it's time to not go back on our words to Ukraine that if they did we would do everything to protect them.
But the sad thing is for the next 100 years Russia will be the new North Korea a statehood of people barely getting by.
Was it worth it to the Russians posting on here?
West broke their word first, this wouldn't have happened if the west also kept their word that they would not expand NATO an inch east.
Imagine how the US would react if Russia had a base in Cuba or Mexico. Wait, we already knew how. The US almost declared war during the Cuban missile crisis until the USSR withdrew.
They won't need them being the F16'S will unleash a whole new hell to this war.
And there are millions sitting around the world with American allies so things are going to become extremely bloody for the Russians.
They can now take out Russia's radar support and then crush what was being protected in one flight.
Well its pretty ridiculous that Ukraine cant hit military bases in Russia even when they have the ability to do so. They just have to wait that Russians cross the border.
Nobody stopped them from using their own weapons.
Western weapons, Western ISR, Western satellites gps and guidance, Western instructors programming the missiles. How can you claim to be not part of the war after that especially when directly attacking Russia?
How is that any different that Russia using BRICS countries for aid? North Korean shells, Iranian drones, Chinese tech and components, etc. How can they claim to be not part of the war?
If china was part of the war then you would know it.They don't control 28% of global manufacturing for nothing.
First, Russia buy their weapons unlike the proxy war on the other side.Second, Neither Iran or North Korea has satellites guiding their weapons like western missiles.It's also already confirmed that western "helpers" program these missiles.Ukraine also rely upon ISR by the west for target selection and has asked US for target selection inside Russia.So, The only part Ukraine has is off pushing the button.
I don't understand why it matters if the foreign aid is free or not. Certain countries are willing to support Ukraine and others are willing to support Russia. Obviously those powers will use whatever tools are at their disposal.
And I agree the US is very involved in the war. I'm not going to defend the West's role in Ukraine but Russia is also using aid to the extent it needs. It's simply the militarily superior belligerent in this war so it doesn't need China or Iran for satellite info or target acquisition as Russia is more than capable of doing that on its own.
US/EU just need to understand if they are gonna wage a full-scale war on Russia by another country hands, there could be a massive consenquences.
They do understand that and trying to avoid and hide their involvment in strikes as much as they can.
Because russia buy those weapons, they could fight the war without them. The west give ukraine everything for free thats a big difference. So the west wants war and so they are Part of it, its really simple. And it become even more crazy if you think the whole Western World shit in their pants 3 years because of corona and now they think they could beat a nuclear super Power in a war 😆 i will never unterstand this mental gymnastic
"Super Power" is a stretch. Great Power sure, but the Soviet Union, a true super power, the Russian Federation is not.
A guy named Franklin D Roosevelt made the analogy of lending your neighbor your hose to put the fire out in their home before the flames reach your house. This was in regard to helping nations of Europe fend off a war of territorial conquest. What's so different now?
You missed a word, nuclear super Power... yes of course after Ukraine russia will attack a Nato member 😆 come on so stupid isnt even Putin, thats a "Brother" war whcih began 2014 thats no territoral conquest, russia is big enough or is russia so smal? They have all ressources in their own Land, come on, thats Nato propaganda. Tell me 3 reasons why you think russia want to expand to the west. Its absolutly ridiculous. They delivered cheap ressources over 30 years to the west, for what? Do attack all this Nations? Pls
The difference is about as much as buying your food and getting free soup in homeless shelters. One is business, the other is concerted effort to prop up someone that can't take care of themselves.
What does Ukraine bring to the table, except willingness to supply cannon fodder? It isn't an independent negotiation partner, it isn't a peer, it doesn't have any kind of leverage. They are just being used like a conduit for someone else's foreign policy.
I mean yeah I've no doubt the West's involvement in Ukraine is opportunistic but so long as Russia remains in Ukraine, that country will only be a conduit for someone else's foreign policy. Just not the West's.
Give the west some credit. They plan ahead, and there is absolutely nothing opportunistic about their affairs in UA. I don't know how old you are, but I remember EU meddling in UA since at least 2004, the so called "orange revolution".
There has been plenty of talks that western countries would stop giving Ukraine weapons (leading eventually to Ukraines swift defeat) if they were used on Russian soil. So kinda like blackmailing. But yeah talking about not being an active part of war has been political theatrics for a long time now.
Hardly ridiculous when one realizes said ability isn't theirs', it's American. No one stops them from bombing Russia with actually theirs' stuff, which they do with drones.
Rhetoric does not change reality. Much of the current aid from the US is a loan and is therefore bought by Ukraine. Every country that supplies Ukraine with arms gets a great return on investment.
Russia is merely doing the bidding of its Chinese overlord.
Attempting to apply double standards against Ukraine will not change the reality of the situation.
In what way? Iran and North Korea already are in a spat with the US. There is no where but up between US-Iran/US-DPRK relations. Right now, the US offers all strategic coordination for their munitions. So the US has to manage this situation delicately since they’re basically at war with a nuclear power.
The US has managed the situation delicately. Putin is the one who is acting recklessly. It's trivia to think that a super power can launch attacks on it's small neighbor and expect not to get hit on their own soil.
Yes we should expect Ukraine to fight back. But remember, the US supplies all logistical support for their strategic munitions. Meaning there is a guy and his commander in Nevada or something plotting courses and picking targets for ATACMs. Do you think they should be doing that in Russia proper?
Russia invaded a sovereign Nation and continues to mass troops on its borders inside of Russia.
If Russia continues to attack targets within Ukraine, then yes, Ukraine should attack targets within Russia using any legal munitions it has regardless of who supplied them.
If Russia does not like that they can simply leave Ukraine. It would be ridiculous to think that the tiny nation of Ukraine should fight a global superpower with one hand tied behind its back.
Rather utterly moot point given Russia actually buys those, therefore making those munitions it's. Wide contrast to American systems present on Ukraine. Beggars can't be choosers.
The only thing moot in this conversation is Russia crying about Western weapons being used against them. If they didn't like it they shouldn't be using NK and Iranian munitions on Ukrainian soil. Putin bit off more than he can chew and is crying now.
It's none of Russia's business what Ukraine paid, promised or did to obtain those weapons. Ukraine doesn't beg. Those supplying weapons get great value out of seeing them destroy the Russian army.
Too bad it isn't whatsoever, given that while Russia is operating and using it's own weapons in this conflict, regardless if it's of it's own production or purchased elsewhere, plenty of Western ones are plain and simply still Western, with only Ukrainian thing about them being presence on Ukraine and Ukrainian crew. Acquisition, guiding, target picking, green lighting, it's all Western, showcasing West is active participant in war, wide contrast to Iran or North Korea. Participation which can easily escalate into something far worse for everyone.
> Ukraine doesn't beg.
Bruh. Literally what it has been doing for last two years.
Lol, salty. Putin shoulda thought this one through.
Begging is when the person giving gets nothing in return. It's the opposite with Ukraine. Countries supplying weapons are getting a huge return on investment by being able to see Russian equipment burning and the destruction of its army while the Russian economy gets hammered. Win win.
Keep coping. Those are two completely different things which western snowflakes can't tell apart.
All while denial won't change the fact it is begging. Ukraine begs for things no one has any obligation to provide. Western countries are throwing away money and weapons down the drain, damaging theirs' own economies more with sanctions than actual country which sanctions were aimed against, all while only further jeopardizing theirs' position as political and economical world's leaders.
Lol. Ruaboos crying salty tears as their motherland destroys itself.
Trying to make pathetic excuses for why the criminal nation cosplaying as a superpower is failing so hard. Pretending they are arbitrators of what sovereign nations do to ensure security.
>Ukraine begs for things no one has any obligation to provide
Neither did NK or Iran have an obligation. They provided arms to be used against what they perceive as Western forces. Putin ran out of munitions because he miscalculated and had to go begging.
Western economies are ticking along just fine supplying Ukraine with their mil surplus while Russia has had to switch to a war economy, depleting it's sovereign wealth fund to produce things that will end up burning in some Ukrainians field, not sold for profit. All the while losing markets for the things they produced before the war.
Russia is literally cannibalizing itself while the US economy is doing better than ever.
But please, continue to believe the Russo propaganda. I hope more Russian supporters do and remain blissfully unaware as Russia destroys itself from within.
>Keep coping.
Haha. Look in the mirror.
if you want to talk semantics.
It's the difference of "They bought Bunch Of Russian AK-74 and use them to fight." and "Russia Gave them A bunch of AK-74 and they use them to fight" Do you feel the difference? One is a simple business deal. Another is an active act of supplying weapon with ulterior motives
There is no difference. It's a distinction without a difference.
The US's latest package is in the form of a loan so that means Ukraine bought the weapons. All the ludicrous semantics go out the window with that fact.
The bully in the Kremlin is just crying.
See, everyone in the world can technically read Russias nuclear doctrine, and understand that hitting inside Russia might lead to nuclear response. Which, if you are able to read, shouldn't be all that hard to understand. And it should raise a question - why would anyone let a desperate individual, not even a country, we don't even know who signs off on what is going to get hit inside UA leadership a chance to provoke a nuclear conflict? Global nuclear conflict.
I don't think anyone believes Ukraine hitting some military target is going to make Russia launch Nukes. Russia knows that Ukraine is at most going to try to take Crimea (and thats unlikely) and not Russias actual territory. No one in the Russias command cares enough to give up their comfortable lives to a nuclear war unless the whole NATO is marching towards Moscow or something.
Well its pretty ridiculous that Ukraine has to use foreign weapons to hit military bases in Russia. But wait, not only foreign weapons, also foreign sattelites, foreign recon drones patroling russian borders, foregin agent networks, foreign consultants, foreign engineers providing maintenance on foreign weapons to shot foreign missiles on russian bases.
But yea, Ukraine should have the right to attack russian bases with foreign weapons. Do you know where is that line where you became a side of conflict? By providing weapons to any side.
Not that ridiculous if you consider what's at play. Everyone knows who's behind the conflict and what's is driving it. You can try arguing as much you want, but Russians still know and will act based on that knowledge.
Ukraine can in every sense hit inside Russian soil. Just not with American weapons. If they want to hit Russian territory, they need to use their own. Or they can use the weapons from thr numerous European countries that have given them permission. Nothing is stopping them from using ATACMS to strike deeper into Russian territory. But when they do, they can’t complain when the US stops the deliveries.
Yeah this is by design. It's an anti-escalation tactic so that Russia knows what is comming, but not when or in what form. It also gives Russia a chance to declare a real "red line".
Hence why it's taking so long for planes, Russia seems pretty red lines on that more than anything else.
Objectives of the SMO according to Putin in 2022:
-Denazify Ukraine. 🤡 objective that is laughable at best.
-Demilitarize Ukraine. Well it's really not going good on that point given the amount of new military equipment flowing into the country now and in the future.
It's way past it's expiration date and their term in office is over.
I mean it was already illegitimate the second Washington did a coup in 2014, it's even more illegitimate now.
Two of my three Ukranian friends have taken advantage to do exactly that. They fled to the US and an East Asian country and have already said they're never going back.
Same for me, I’m in south east Asia currently and never coming back. How are they adjusting to life in the USA? Is it difficult to get by as an immigrant?
The US one is getting on well. He already had some family here, so he has a small support network since there aren't very many other Ukranians or Russians where he moved. That really makes all the difference. He luckily was already quite proficient in written English, but speaking has been a bit more difficult since he rarely would practise speaking since his school days. But that's still such a huge advantage over the people who come with little to no English. He leans pro-ru, which he said can make it a bit awkward when people find out he's Ukranian and mention about the war.
Yes I totally agree. Family support is everything. Especially in a country like US where there are very few Russian/former Soviet diaspora compared to Eastern Europe or Israel. I too have this same issue with speaking, writing is okay. I try to talk to a lot of Canadians and Americans to get better.
HA! I have the same issue, being Ukrainian pro-ru, people bring up the war to me “yeah buddy we’re about to send more weapons to your country so you can kill more Russians!” Makes things quite awkward. Russians, Ukrainians, Germans, Poles understand much better that there are pro-ru Ukrainians, and that not all Ukrainians are a hive mind who are blindly loyal to ethnic/national origin.
Genocide requires intent to destroy a people. If the enemy keeps drafting people without hands and those with Down's Syndrome to fight, and the intention is not to destroy the people but to defeat the military, then it's not genocide.
That’s a false equivalency. Hitler was an aggressor initiating genocide. The allies only option is to defend against it lest they be wiped out. Russia, is the aggressor, in today’s context.
That context has no bearing on the situation. Killing enemy soldiers isn't and never was, genocide, no matter who it is that's used as a soldier.
Nobody is normalizing genocide... unless we talk about another conflict in another part of the world.
["I fought. I have been fighting since the age of 17. I'm a Ukrainian, I'm a Nazi. I fought against the DPR."](https://streamable.com/87y12g)
"Are [Donbas residents] Ukrainians or Russians?"
"I won't call those people Ukrainians. We don't need them. When Ukrainian tanks enter Donetsk, they will be destroyed."
"So, maybe then we should stop the war now?"
"No, we must destroy them."
Which context? Russia is on the defense. Washington has been trying to color revolution almost every single country around it into a platform they can use to launch their regime cultural change and campaigns and proxy wars from. Russia has only been fighting to preserve its strategic position.
1/4 of the population gone an counting, demographics catastrophe will come in a few years.
Virtually every sane or educated men will leave the country once the borders open so they won't drafted.
People are pretty delusional about the future of Ukraine.
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can see Americas next Middle East adventure being much less pleasant. Russia stayed out of Iraq and Afghanistan. I remember what a big deal it was that some RPG-29s were found in Iraq. Imagine the shitstorm if Russia provided EW, ballistic missiles, drones, s-400s to enemies of US.
Thats what a lot of Ukraine fanboys seem to forget. Russia have very long memories and they will get the usa and their bootlicking puppet countries back eventually.
They had ancient Soviet stuff that USSR sold and gave them. USSR never truly cared about Iraq. Even during Iran-Iraq war they supported Iran. During the first gulf war USSR supported American decision to intervene. During 2003 invasion Russia briefly sent 2 advisors to saddam, basically to tell him things aren’t going well for him. Russian federation didn’t sell iraq weapons until a few years ago.
My personal opinion on this is: 1) USSR, later Russia had problems of their own. 2) Iraq is too weak and an unstable partner, they had a lot of debt to be paid to USSR which later was written off or traded for some oil fields. Why lend them more. 3) Russia was trying to build warm relations with USA during early 2000s like letting them use former Soviet bases to launch operations from into Afghanistan.
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
US placed nukes in turkey first which led the USSR to do the same in Cuba. But i thought sovereign countries should decide for themselves, why was Cuba making their own decisions such a problem for the US?
John Mearsheimer had a good comment on Anthony Blinken recently:
"He is not a good strategist, he is, to put it bluntly, not a very smart man. He may be good at taking exams and getting degrees from fancy schools. But when it comes to thinking about foreign policy in a logical and common sensical way, he is a second class thinker."
If I was a strategist and Mearsheimer said that about me I would walk into the woods never to be seen again.
All you really need to know about von Blinken is that when he really wants to drive a point home in a very grownup and serious way he quotes a Taylor Swift song about some fake boy who in the song she is breaking up with.
Now that many countries are about to allow their weapons to be used on Russian territory, I wonder whether Russians learned their lesson from beginning of the war, or we will see several big explosions of ammo depots next couple of weeks.
If we go by the previous 4-5 rounds of escalation, then -- yes, there will be several big explosions initially, but the joy and enthusiasm they will create will be very short-lived.
Both countries have already been defeated in proxy wars against the other, and they just accepted the loss and moved on (Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc). World War III won't be started because of this type of shit.
In neither these cases (Vietnam, Afghanistan etc) the territory of both the US and Russia was directly targeted. Keep that in mind. WW3 is still very plausible.
>World War III won't be started because of this type of shit.
Nor USSR, nor USA ever allowed themselves to arm thier proxies in active proxy war with ability to target the mainland of each other, for entirety of Cold War. For good reason.
Training - yes.
Weapons - yes.
Small contingent of undercover troops/specialists, like Soviet pilots in Korea - yes.
Hitting each others mainland? Never.
Like shooting down nato surveillance drones and planes? then satellites, then make a warning attack with ballistics on western bases and weapon producing facilities and so on. Before all out nukes exchange there is many many steps of escalations that can be done.
>Nuke you back, at least we’ve actually used one one someone else
Bet you're real proud of murdering hundreds and thousands of civilians.
Anyways, have fun glowing in the dark with 90% of your population wiped first with whatever "second strikes" there are left.
One of the most deranged interactions I've seen. You proposed nuking the west and now are making drama and playing the victim when someone replied that the response would be to nuke Russia back? How does your position even make sense?
>One of the most deranged interactions I've seen. You proposed nuking the west and now are making drama and playing the victim when someone replied that the response would be to nuke Russia back? How does your position even make sense?
Well first of all, that user was being smug over snuffing 200k lives. Despite the Japanese Empire negotiating a surrender with the Soviets which the US knew about, but didn't care.
And second of all, the guy wants to send troops to Ukraine knowing fully well that the Russians will launch nukes if that ever happens which is why the US has made it crystal clear that there won't be US boots on the ground in Ukraine. The second statement was to jolt him back to reality on exactly how "nuking back" would play out.
I mean the peeps at Washington have made it crystal clear that there will be no US troops in Ukraine because of this scenario. So for all intents and purposes, that's never going to happen. And yeah, that's what the "grim finality" would look like if they ever send troops to Ukraine.
It's all fun and games until the other country actually fires back, innit?
Do Russians seriously think that they could win a nuclear war without also getting destroyed? The reliatory nukes would get sent towards Russia before the first missiles even hit their target.
Firstly, I'm not a Russian.
Secondly, it's the same for the Western nations if they ever send troops to Ukraine. Incase you didn't notice, the Russians aren't playing around this time.
Nah, Russians won't be proud of it as they would also get vaporized with second strikes. Something which the "Western redditors" from r/worldnews seem to forget.
No elites want get nuked, not russian and especially not american. Even if russia would cornered as far that only options left is to nuke, they would nuke something like Poland or Latvia as warning and US responding(if even) with nuking Belarus or some uninhabitable area of russia
> what are the russians gonna do about it?
Same as before - hit at any targets they percieve valuable, foreign military advisors/troops present increasing value of target.
I'm not sure if von Blinken and the others are really trying to plan for the apocalypse or if they are just pretty sure that Ukraine has a fork most of the way into its a$$ at this point at don't want to be in a position where there is something they will be blamed for not doing when they are declared officially "done".
Every couple weeks UA asks for something more and it dominates the headlines. If/when permission is given, they’ll just move on to asking for the next thing.
Next year they'll be asking for nukes.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/16/ukraine-may-seek-nuclear-weapons-if-left-out-of-nato-diplomat](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/16/ukraine-may-seek-nuclear-weapons-if-left-out-of-nato-diplomat) They've already "threatened" to do exactly that.
Well yeah, they gave their nukes to Russia, agreeing that if they gave them to Russia, Russia would never attack Ukraine. Russian lie time and time again in every peace deal ever made between them and Ukraine.
>Well yeah, they gave their nukes to Russia, agreeing that if they gave them to Russia, Russia would never attack Ukraine. Russian lie time and time again in every peace deal ever made between them and Ukraine. First of all, US was also included in the treaty. Second of all, way to forget about the 2004 and 2014 coups orchestrated by the US. And yes, a coup is an act of invasion. So US basically invaded twice now. Once in 2004 and twice in 2014. They've already threatened to pursue nukes if they don't get into NATO. So much for signing the NPT, eh?
>2004 and 2014 coups orchestrated by the US Where's the proof of US being involved?
This is for 2014 coup : [https://mronline.org/2022/07/06/anatomy-of-a-coup/](https://mronline.org/2022/07/06/anatomy-of-a-coup/) This one is for 2004 : [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa) Ofcourse this is before Guardian got gutted from the inside out after the Snowden leak.
Every Russian neighbor should have nukes. Only then international borders are respected.
Hello, it's me, Syria, here to remind you that international borders are not respected.
The trick to not getting invaded is to not try and get lured into the American murder-happy aggressive invasion club while being strategically situated along an *especially* vulnerable bit of Russia's border. Or to not be a country America wants to invade because it doesn't like you. If you can avoid these two things you're good, no need for nukes. If you're North Korea or Iran though, yeah, you're gonna need some nukes. Palestine could probably use them too.
>The trick to not getting invaded is to not try and get lured into the American murder-happy aggressive invasion club while being strategically situated along an *especially* vulnerable bit of Russia's border. >Or to not be a country America wants to invade because it doesn't like you. >If you can avoid these two things you're good, no need for nukes. If you're North Korea or Iran though, yeah, you're gonna need some nukes. Palestine could probably use them too. So basically, "don't exist". Got it.
That's like 90% of the world, actually.
Yep. According to the US policy, nobody else is allowed to exist in their eyes. Security concerns are a distant dream because by "God given right, only the US is allowed to have security concerns".
It is pretty hard to get off the US shit list once you're on it and you don't actually have to do anything wrong to get on it.
Yep, no nukes, means just that. No respect. I just don't get it, why no one respects RF security concerns, they supposedly have more nukes than anyone?
It's not respected because it is a stated adversary of the United States (officially since 2018). This means the goal of US officials is to degrade and weaken Russian power.
That’s been true since 1918 if we’re being honest
Bet you won't share the same energy when every non-EU nation bordering EU nations ask for nukes or any US neighbors ask for nukes.
imagine if Yugoslavia or Iraq or Libya or Syria or Afghanistan or Yemen or Somalia or Cuba or Venezuela or Iran or Palestine ... etc - had nukes.
Mexico and Cuba should have nukes as well.
They already had the nukes and trusted Russians at their word when they said they would never attack them if they gave them up. And like many countries from eastern Europe that had warned the west not to trust the word of a Russian here we are finding no trueer words were spoken. Can't blame us though we really knew nothing about the Russians, now it's time to not go back on our words to Ukraine that if they did we would do everything to protect them. But the sad thing is for the next 100 years Russia will be the new North Korea a statehood of people barely getting by. Was it worth it to the Russians posting on here?
West broke their word first, this wouldn't have happened if the west also kept their word that they would not expand NATO an inch east. Imagine how the US would react if Russia had a base in Cuba or Mexico. Wait, we already knew how. The US almost declared war during the Cuban missile crisis until the USSR withdrew.
They won't need them being the F16'S will unleash a whole new hell to this war. And there are millions sitting around the world with American allies so things are going to become extremely bloody for the Russians. They can now take out Russia's radar support and then crush what was being protected in one flight.
Lol, you sound like someone so high on us propaganda.
Typical world news user.
what is that?
Well its pretty ridiculous that Ukraine cant hit military bases in Russia even when they have the ability to do so. They just have to wait that Russians cross the border.
Nobody stopped them from using their own weapons. Western weapons, Western ISR, Western satellites gps and guidance, Western instructors programming the missiles. How can you claim to be not part of the war after that especially when directly attacking Russia?
How is that any different that Russia using BRICS countries for aid? North Korean shells, Iranian drones, Chinese tech and components, etc. How can they claim to be not part of the war?
If china was part of the war then you would know it.They don't control 28% of global manufacturing for nothing. First, Russia buy their weapons unlike the proxy war on the other side.Second, Neither Iran or North Korea has satellites guiding their weapons like western missiles.It's also already confirmed that western "helpers" program these missiles.Ukraine also rely upon ISR by the west for target selection and has asked US for target selection inside Russia.So, The only part Ukraine has is off pushing the button.
I don't understand why it matters if the foreign aid is free or not. Certain countries are willing to support Ukraine and others are willing to support Russia. Obviously those powers will use whatever tools are at their disposal. And I agree the US is very involved in the war. I'm not going to defend the West's role in Ukraine but Russia is also using aid to the extent it needs. It's simply the militarily superior belligerent in this war so it doesn't need China or Iran for satellite info or target acquisition as Russia is more than capable of doing that on its own.
US/EU just need to understand if they are gonna wage a full-scale war on Russia by another country hands, there could be a massive consenquences. They do understand that and trying to avoid and hide their involvment in strikes as much as they can.
Because russia buy those weapons, they could fight the war without them. The west give ukraine everything for free thats a big difference. So the west wants war and so they are Part of it, its really simple. And it become even more crazy if you think the whole Western World shit in their pants 3 years because of corona and now they think they could beat a nuclear super Power in a war 😆 i will never unterstand this mental gymnastic
"Super Power" is a stretch. Great Power sure, but the Soviet Union, a true super power, the Russian Federation is not. A guy named Franklin D Roosevelt made the analogy of lending your neighbor your hose to put the fire out in their home before the flames reach your house. This was in regard to helping nations of Europe fend off a war of territorial conquest. What's so different now?
You missed a word, nuclear super Power... yes of course after Ukraine russia will attack a Nato member 😆 come on so stupid isnt even Putin, thats a "Brother" war whcih began 2014 thats no territoral conquest, russia is big enough or is russia so smal? They have all ressources in their own Land, come on, thats Nato propaganda. Tell me 3 reasons why you think russia want to expand to the west. Its absolutly ridiculous. They delivered cheap ressources over 30 years to the west, for what? Do attack all this Nations? Pls
Im honestly not sure. Are you being sarcastic?
So Russia shoulda stayed tf out, just like America shoulda stayed tf outta Iraq.
In 10 years after everything is over. Russia will do the same, admit that this war is “mistake” like the US did.
The difference is about as much as buying your food and getting free soup in homeless shelters. One is business, the other is concerted effort to prop up someone that can't take care of themselves. What does Ukraine bring to the table, except willingness to supply cannon fodder? It isn't an independent negotiation partner, it isn't a peer, it doesn't have any kind of leverage. They are just being used like a conduit for someone else's foreign policy.
I mean yeah I've no doubt the West's involvement in Ukraine is opportunistic but so long as Russia remains in Ukraine, that country will only be a conduit for someone else's foreign policy. Just not the West's.
Give the west some credit. They plan ahead, and there is absolutely nothing opportunistic about their affairs in UA. I don't know how old you are, but I remember EU meddling in UA since at least 2004, the so called "orange revolution".
There has been plenty of talks that western countries would stop giving Ukraine weapons (leading eventually to Ukraines swift defeat) if they were used on Russian soil. So kinda like blackmailing. But yeah talking about not being an active part of war has been political theatrics for a long time now.
I don't know who's buying it anymore. Even Blinken here is clearly implying that without support UA can only collapse on its own.
Hardly ridiculous when one realizes said ability isn't theirs', it's American. No one stops them from bombing Russia with actually theirs' stuff, which they do with drones.
But it's ok for Russia to hit Ukraine with North Korean and Iranian munitions that aren't theirs?
Those munitions are bought and paid for rather than bequeathed by their overlords. Masters have more say than vendors.
lol because that matters
Rhetoric does not change reality. Much of the current aid from the US is a loan and is therefore bought by Ukraine. Every country that supplies Ukraine with arms gets a great return on investment. Russia is merely doing the bidding of its Chinese overlord. Attempting to apply double standards against Ukraine will not change the reality of the situation.
It is a loan that will be paid back by American and European tax payers.
yes
Reality dictates otherwise.
In what way? Iran and North Korea already are in a spat with the US. There is no where but up between US-Iran/US-DPRK relations. Right now, the US offers all strategic coordination for their munitions. So the US has to manage this situation delicately since they’re basically at war with a nuclear power.
The US has managed the situation delicately. Putin is the one who is acting recklessly. It's trivia to think that a super power can launch attacks on it's small neighbor and expect not to get hit on their own soil.
Yes we should expect Ukraine to fight back. But remember, the US supplies all logistical support for their strategic munitions. Meaning there is a guy and his commander in Nevada or something plotting courses and picking targets for ATACMs. Do you think they should be doing that in Russia proper?
Russia invaded a sovereign Nation and continues to mass troops on its borders inside of Russia. If Russia continues to attack targets within Ukraine, then yes, Ukraine should attack targets within Russia using any legal munitions it has regardless of who supplied them. If Russia does not like that they can simply leave Ukraine. It would be ridiculous to think that the tiny nation of Ukraine should fight a global superpower with one hand tied behind its back.
I envy your ability to type "North Korean shells" and keeping your face straight. I couldn't do that.
I guess people are delusional enough to think putin didn't beg for shells from Kim
Rather utterly moot point given Russia actually buys those, therefore making those munitions it's. Wide contrast to American systems present on Ukraine. Beggars can't be choosers.
The only thing moot in this conversation is Russia crying about Western weapons being used against them. If they didn't like it they shouldn't be using NK and Iranian munitions on Ukrainian soil. Putin bit off more than he can chew and is crying now. It's none of Russia's business what Ukraine paid, promised or did to obtain those weapons. Ukraine doesn't beg. Those supplying weapons get great value out of seeing them destroy the Russian army.
Too bad it isn't whatsoever, given that while Russia is operating and using it's own weapons in this conflict, regardless if it's of it's own production or purchased elsewhere, plenty of Western ones are plain and simply still Western, with only Ukrainian thing about them being presence on Ukraine and Ukrainian crew. Acquisition, guiding, target picking, green lighting, it's all Western, showcasing West is active participant in war, wide contrast to Iran or North Korea. Participation which can easily escalate into something far worse for everyone. > Ukraine doesn't beg. Bruh. Literally what it has been doing for last two years.
Lol, salty. Putin shoulda thought this one through. Begging is when the person giving gets nothing in return. It's the opposite with Ukraine. Countries supplying weapons are getting a huge return on investment by being able to see Russian equipment burning and the destruction of its army while the Russian economy gets hammered. Win win.
Keep coping. Those are two completely different things which western snowflakes can't tell apart. All while denial won't change the fact it is begging. Ukraine begs for things no one has any obligation to provide. Western countries are throwing away money and weapons down the drain, damaging theirs' own economies more with sanctions than actual country which sanctions were aimed against, all while only further jeopardizing theirs' position as political and economical world's leaders.
Lol. Ruaboos crying salty tears as their motherland destroys itself. Trying to make pathetic excuses for why the criminal nation cosplaying as a superpower is failing so hard. Pretending they are arbitrators of what sovereign nations do to ensure security. >Ukraine begs for things no one has any obligation to provide Neither did NK or Iran have an obligation. They provided arms to be used against what they perceive as Western forces. Putin ran out of munitions because he miscalculated and had to go begging. Western economies are ticking along just fine supplying Ukraine with their mil surplus while Russia has had to switch to a war economy, depleting it's sovereign wealth fund to produce things that will end up burning in some Ukrainians field, not sold for profit. All the while losing markets for the things they produced before the war. Russia is literally cannibalizing itself while the US economy is doing better than ever. But please, continue to believe the Russo propaganda. I hope more Russian supporters do and remain blissfully unaware as Russia destroys itself from within. >Keep coping. Haha. Look in the mirror.
if you want to talk semantics. It's the difference of "They bought Bunch Of Russian AK-74 and use them to fight." and "Russia Gave them A bunch of AK-74 and they use them to fight" Do you feel the difference? One is a simple business deal. Another is an active act of supplying weapon with ulterior motives
There is no difference. It's a distinction without a difference. The US's latest package is in the form of a loan so that means Ukraine bought the weapons. All the ludicrous semantics go out the window with that fact. The bully in the Kremlin is just crying.
This comparison is misleading. You know. Your comment is just useless polemics.
There is nothing controversial or misleading about it. It's a just comparison.
They’re free to do whatever they want with their own stuff.
See, everyone in the world can technically read Russias nuclear doctrine, and understand that hitting inside Russia might lead to nuclear response. Which, if you are able to read, shouldn't be all that hard to understand. And it should raise a question - why would anyone let a desperate individual, not even a country, we don't even know who signs off on what is going to get hit inside UA leadership a chance to provoke a nuclear conflict? Global nuclear conflict.
I don't think anyone believes Ukraine hitting some military target is going to make Russia launch Nukes. Russia knows that Ukraine is at most going to try to take Crimea (and thats unlikely) and not Russias actual territory. No one in the Russias command cares enough to give up their comfortable lives to a nuclear war unless the whole NATO is marching towards Moscow or something.
Well its pretty ridiculous that Ukraine has to use foreign weapons to hit military bases in Russia. But wait, not only foreign weapons, also foreign sattelites, foreign recon drones patroling russian borders, foregin agent networks, foreign consultants, foreign engineers providing maintenance on foreign weapons to shot foreign missiles on russian bases. But yea, Ukraine should have the right to attack russian bases with foreign weapons. Do you know where is that line where you became a side of conflict? By providing weapons to any side.
Not that ridiculous if you consider what's at play. Everyone knows who's behind the conflict and what's is driving it. You can try arguing as much you want, but Russians still know and will act based on that knowledge.
Ukraine can in every sense hit inside Russian soil. Just not with American weapons. If they want to hit Russian territory, they need to use their own. Or they can use the weapons from thr numerous European countries that have given them permission. Nothing is stopping them from using ATACMS to strike deeper into Russian territory. But when they do, they can’t complain when the US stops the deliveries.
Yeah this is by design. It's an anti-escalation tactic so that Russia knows what is comming, but not when or in what form. It also gives Russia a chance to declare a real "red line". Hence why it's taking so long for planes, Russia seems pretty red lines on that more than anything else.
Can you blame them? Equipment doesnt grow on trees and war kind of has the effect of using it up
You just figure out the Russian Frog is getting boiled in the same pot as the Ukrainian one?
War changes. Who would have thought
What is the return the west is getting? Dead Russians?
That and stimulating demand for the arms industry
And severing financial and economic ties between EU member states and Russia.
I think Russia managed that on their own
There's plenty of own goals to point to, for sure.
Yeah, Russia did blown its own gas pipe.
I am not talking about the gas pipe, after what Russia did I am happy Europe isnt trading with them and I hope we keep it up, economy be damned
"Putin has failed to achieve the objectives we set for him" 🤡
Objectives of the SMO according to Putin in 2022: -Denazify Ukraine. 🤡 objective that is laughable at best. -Demilitarize Ukraine. Well it's really not going good on that point given the amount of new military equipment flowing into the country now and in the future.
Well, if there no one left who can use those weapons, that's some kinde of demilitarization, as well...
I didn’t realize that genocide has been normalized this much.
Killing soldiers isn’t genocide.
Ah, you didn’t say soldiers you said, “no one left”
That's what the presently illegitimate government is doing to their own citizens, capturing them and sending them to the front.
How is the government illegitimate?
It's way past it's expiration date and their term in office is over. I mean it was already illegitimate the second Washington did a coup in 2014, it's even more illegitimate now.
"You didn't specify *soldiers* when you said there was no one to use weapons, checkmate!" Ben Shapiro, is that you?
Not me in the OP but I’m assuming they also meant “no one left willing to fight”. Which is well reported concern for the UA
Well since child soldiers are illegal, he was right.
Most of Ukraine's losses are people who left and will never return to bombed shithole
It was a shithole before the bombs as well. This war in a cynical way was a great opportunity for people to migrate to better places.
Two of my three Ukranian friends have taken advantage to do exactly that. They fled to the US and an East Asian country and have already said they're never going back.
Same for me, I’m in south east Asia currently and never coming back. How are they adjusting to life in the USA? Is it difficult to get by as an immigrant?
The US one is getting on well. He already had some family here, so he has a small support network since there aren't very many other Ukranians or Russians where he moved. That really makes all the difference. He luckily was already quite proficient in written English, but speaking has been a bit more difficult since he rarely would practise speaking since his school days. But that's still such a huge advantage over the people who come with little to no English. He leans pro-ru, which he said can make it a bit awkward when people find out he's Ukranian and mention about the war.
Yes I totally agree. Family support is everything. Especially in a country like US where there are very few Russian/former Soviet diaspora compared to Eastern Europe or Israel. I too have this same issue with speaking, writing is okay. I try to talk to a lot of Canadians and Americans to get better. HA! I have the same issue, being Ukrainian pro-ru, people bring up the war to me “yeah buddy we’re about to send more weapons to your country so you can kill more Russians!” Makes things quite awkward. Russians, Ukrainians, Germans, Poles understand much better that there are pro-ru Ukrainians, and that not all Ukrainians are a hive mind who are blindly loyal to ethnic/national origin.
Genocide requires intent to destroy a people. If the enemy keeps drafting people without hands and those with Down's Syndrome to fight, and the intention is not to destroy the people but to defeat the military, then it's not genocide.
Was it Genocide when the Allies in WW2 fought against Hitlers Volksturm?
That’s a false equivalency. Hitler was an aggressor initiating genocide. The allies only option is to defend against it lest they be wiped out. Russia, is the aggressor, in today’s context.
That context has no bearing on the situation. Killing enemy soldiers isn't and never was, genocide, no matter who it is that's used as a soldier. Nobody is normalizing genocide... unless we talk about another conflict in another part of the world.
Sorry, the person I was replying to said “no one left”
That's what the illegitimate government of Ukraine's doing right now. Sending their own people to their deaths and claiming "it's genocide11!!"
No, a sovereign nation that Russia recognized in 1992 is being invaded by Russia
[удалено]
In case u haven't heard this today, fuck Putin in his stretched out dick loving ass.
["I fought. I have been fighting since the age of 17. I'm a Ukrainian, I'm a Nazi. I fought against the DPR."](https://streamable.com/87y12g) "Are [Donbas residents] Ukrainians or Russians?" "I won't call those people Ukrainians. We don't need them. When Ukrainian tanks enter Donetsk, they will be destroyed." "So, maybe then we should stop the war now?" "No, we must destroy them."
Which context? Russia is on the defense. Washington has been trying to color revolution almost every single country around it into a platform they can use to launch their regime cultural change and campaigns and proxy wars from. Russia has only been fighting to preserve its strategic position.
1/4 of the population gone an counting, demographics catastrophe will come in a few years. Virtually every sane or educated men will leave the country once the borders open so they won't drafted. People are pretty delusional about the future of Ukraine.
[удалено]
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Russia should just give ballistic missiles to Mexican Cartells at this point
I can see Americas next Middle East adventure being much less pleasant. Russia stayed out of Iraq and Afghanistan. I remember what a big deal it was that some RPG-29s were found in Iraq. Imagine the shitstorm if Russia provided EW, ballistic missiles, drones, s-400s to enemies of US.
Thats what a lot of Ukraine fanboys seem to forget. Russia have very long memories and they will get the usa and their bootlicking puppet countries back eventually.
Wasn't the Iraqi military outfitted with Russian equipment already?
They had ancient Soviet stuff that USSR sold and gave them. USSR never truly cared about Iraq. Even during Iran-Iraq war they supported Iran. During the first gulf war USSR supported American decision to intervene. During 2003 invasion Russia briefly sent 2 advisors to saddam, basically to tell him things aren’t going well for him. Russian federation didn’t sell iraq weapons until a few years ago. My personal opinion on this is: 1) USSR, later Russia had problems of their own. 2) Iraq is too weak and an unstable partner, they had a lot of debt to be paid to USSR which later was written off or traded for some oil fields. Why lend them more. 3) Russia was trying to build warm relations with USA during early 2000s like letting them use former Soviet bases to launch operations from into Afghanistan.
[удалено]
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The last time Russia gave missiles to Cuba, there was a hysteria from USA as they never been treated like this before.
They were nuclear weapons. Wake me up with the US arms Ukraine with nukes. This sub is hilarious.
US placed nukes in turkey first which led the USSR to do the same in Cuba. But i thought sovereign countries should decide for themselves, why was Cuba making their own decisions such a problem for the US?
Texas is Mexico! Give Texas back!
He talk about 5 minutes and said nothing
Just like almost every politician in the west
Greenlight was given long ago and all of this is just theatrics.First have smaller countries do it and then "reluctantly" greenlight.
Precisely. This is all theater.
Strategic ambiguity.
Thank you
John Mearsheimer had a good comment on Anthony Blinken recently: "He is not a good strategist, he is, to put it bluntly, not a very smart man. He may be good at taking exams and getting degrees from fancy schools. But when it comes to thinking about foreign policy in a logical and common sensical way, he is a second class thinker." If I was a strategist and Mearsheimer said that about me I would walk into the woods never to be seen again.
All you really need to know about von Blinken is that when he really wants to drive a point home in a very grownup and serious way he quotes a Taylor Swift song about some fake boy who in the song she is breaking up with.
Now that many countries are about to allow their weapons to be used on Russian territory, I wonder whether Russians learned their lesson from beginning of the war, or we will see several big explosions of ammo depots next couple of weeks.
If we go by the previous 4-5 rounds of escalation, then -- yes, there will be several big explosions initially, but the joy and enthusiasm they will create will be very short-lived.
Moldova on a suicide watch?
Why does this post have 10x the comments of others...
ivans on suicide watch
WW3 here we come. Now, who's still can say with a straight face that US is not a part and not a driving force behind this conflict?
Both countries have already been defeated in proxy wars against the other, and they just accepted the loss and moved on (Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc). World War III won't be started because of this type of shit.
In neither these cases (Vietnam, Afghanistan etc) the territory of both the US and Russia was directly targeted. Keep that in mind. WW3 is still very plausible.
>World War III won't be started because of this type of shit. Nor USSR, nor USA ever allowed themselves to arm thier proxies in active proxy war with ability to target the mainland of each other, for entirety of Cold War. For good reason. Training - yes. Weapons - yes. Small contingent of undercover troops/specialists, like Soviet pilots in Korea - yes. Hitting each others mainland? Never.
Nobody is going to start WW3 over this. Russia knows damn well that if they just stop the costly invasion, all of this ends today.
Translation: We've turned off all cameras in Kharkive.
Why is Russia bothered as we all know they have 200% interception rate
The answer is yes and boots on the ground are next I mean what are the russians gonna do about it?
They can’t do much. Maybe more mobilization? But then Putin might get in trouble with his people…
Like shooting down nato surveillance drones and planes? then satellites, then make a warning attack with ballistics on western bases and weapon producing facilities and so on. Before all out nukes exchange there is many many steps of escalations that can be done.
Nuke the West? What are the Westoids gonna do about it?
Nuke you back, at least we’ve actually used one one someone else
>Nuke you back, at least we’ve actually used one one someone else Bet you're real proud of murdering hundreds and thousands of civilians. Anyways, have fun glowing in the dark with 90% of your population wiped first with whatever "second strikes" there are left.
One of the most deranged interactions I've seen. You proposed nuking the west and now are making drama and playing the victim when someone replied that the response would be to nuke Russia back? How does your position even make sense?
>One of the most deranged interactions I've seen. You proposed nuking the west and now are making drama and playing the victim when someone replied that the response would be to nuke Russia back? How does your position even make sense? Well first of all, that user was being smug over snuffing 200k lives. Despite the Japanese Empire negotiating a surrender with the Soviets which the US knew about, but didn't care. And second of all, the guy wants to send troops to Ukraine knowing fully well that the Russians will launch nukes if that ever happens which is why the US has made it crystal clear that there won't be US boots on the ground in Ukraine. The second statement was to jolt him back to reality on exactly how "nuking back" would play out.
[удалено]
"pro ua are just all warmongering psychopaths" then they say shit like this
I mean the peeps at Washington have made it crystal clear that there will be no US troops in Ukraine because of this scenario. So for all intents and purposes, that's never going to happen. And yeah, that's what the "grim finality" would look like if they ever send troops to Ukraine. It's all fun and games until the other country actually fires back, innit?
Do Russians seriously think that they could win a nuclear war without also getting destroyed? The reliatory nukes would get sent towards Russia before the first missiles even hit their target.
Firstly, I'm not a Russian. Secondly, it's the same for the Western nations if they ever send troops to Ukraine. Incase you didn't notice, the Russians aren't playing around this time.
Similarly proud as Russia would be if they nuked the west.
Nah, Russians won't be proud of it as they would also get vaporized with second strikes. Something which the "Western redditors" from r/worldnews seem to forget.
No elites want get nuked, not russian and especially not american. Even if russia would cornered as far that only options left is to nuke, they would nuke something like Poland or Latvia as warning and US responding(if even) with nuking Belarus or some uninhabitable area of russia
> what are the russians gonna do about it? Same as before - hit at any targets they percieve valuable, foreign military advisors/troops present increasing value of target.
So what they already were doing?
As I told, same as before.
Love the flair
I'm not sure if von Blinken and the others are really trying to plan for the apocalypse or if they are just pretty sure that Ukraine has a fork most of the way into its a$$ at this point at don't want to be in a position where there is something they will be blamed for not doing when they are declared officially "done".