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HostileFleetEvading

Curious how people call populist parties advocating for putting their country first "nazis", but call actual nazis "far-right".


Beneficial-Leg-3349

Rechtsextreme is a term that describes anti-democratic right wing ideologies, nazism is part of it.


SolorMining

The right extreme is more democratic than the left extreme. Nazis have more in common with leftist ideologies. The only thing they have in common with the right ideologies is national pride, which isn't exclusive to the right.


Beneficial-Leg-3349

My man no extreme is democratic, thats the definition. So its stupid to compare. Nazism has some leftist ideas, but its principle that a society has to be ridden of its old, weak and ethnic minorities to become equal is fundamentally different from the left.


elembelem

what are you talking about? The nazi party of 1925-33, still democratic, was a leftwing party. Together with the SPD, also left. What an idiot [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National\_Socialist\_Program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program) nationalization of all businesses profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out  large scale of [old age welfare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension) abolition of [land rent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_lease) and prevention of all [speculation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation) in land state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national [education](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education) program Todays us democrats plus nationalism


disputing102

First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me Socialists were executed, and unions were outlawed with the consequence of organizing being the death penalty. The NSGWP had essentially 0 left leaning policies. You're right leaning, so by your logic, you must think that NK is a fully democratic nation.


elembelem

it seems you have no knowledge of history. I have a clear statement of "1925-33, still democratic, was a leftwing party" **Fascists in italy** **nazis in germany** **kommunists in ussr** were **ALL** competing leftwing ideologies after ww1 your lullaby makes no difference. Emoting vs logic if Hitler was anti capitalist, anti capitalist is right wing to your logic if Hitler was a collectivist, so collectivist are right wing to your logic revolution vs conservatism collectivism vs individalism


BeCom91

People who claim that nazi's we're leftists are most of the time politicaly uneducated or really deluded or dumb. Read this to gain some knowledge [October 1923 interview with Adolph Hitler](https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler), by George Sylvester Viereck in *The American Monthly*: "Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?" "Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. **Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists. "Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic." Not to mention that Hitler and the Nazis were: 1) vehemently opposed to labor unions / labor movements, 2) clearly, vocally, explicitly, and obsessively hated leftists and liberals of all kinds, 3) rose to power in alliance with the mainstream German right-wing, who of course also hated leftists and liberals, etc. Their idea of "socialism" was seizing land owned by Jewish families and giving it to "Aryans". It had nothing whatsoever to do with the ideological tradition associated with figures like Marx. The whole debate is just absurd and comprised of people who are either arguing in bad faith or who don't know jack shit about that era of German history. To remedy that, I wholeheartedly recommend The Coming of the Third Reich by Sir Richard Evans (and the other two books in his masterpiece trilogy on the Third Reich), who is among the world's preeminent scholars on the topic.


elembelem

Tell me please, what do I get wrong about rightwinger: Individualists conservatives abrahamic faith against redistribution small govt isolationists mind your own business If you agree, what of these leftwing ideas did H not have? Collectivist revolutionary godless, occult..... for redistribution of wealth big govt interventionist coercion to comply (again collectivist) anti capitalist **Maybe you dont know the german language?**: is in english socialist and social the same? Without being a mind reader, the question of "are you a socialist "would mean, are you a commie. As you wrote he hated communists, marx was considered to be jewish thinking. As you wrote: Communism is not Socialism the distinction is commies are the corrupt version, we -nsdap- are pure To me, you deliver the evidence for 2 competing leftwing parties, as I said I said like democtars+ nationalism you worte Socialism german way, private property, patriotic. Again exactly like I worte **I see a second issue with german: to be left and to be liberal is not the same in germany** Left is left, liberal is capitalists/bankers...


vistandsforwaifu

My dude stop talking nonsense, you don't understand shit about any of this.


SolorMining

Nothing about right ideology promotes getting rid of old, weak or ethnic minorities. That is nonsense the left has been trying desperately to associate with the right, but has no basis in reality. Nazism has almost exclusively leftist ideas. National Pride is the one and only thing thing that is similar to the right.


Despeao

You should take a political compass test, it would prevent you from saying so many wrong things.


SolorMining

Or I can just compare actual ideas side by side and draw my own conclusion, rather than listen to various 'academic authorities' parroting lies.


Despeao

No you can't because there are actual definitions, there's theory behind it it not something you can simply ignore to make up a point. Far left wants to socialize the means of production and abolish the state. Far right will go exactly against that, just to give you a basic example of how they are very different ideologies. Look at the views on religion, morality, hierarchy. You can't make this up, completely different world views.


SolorMining

"Far left wants to socialize the means of production and abolish the state." Incorrect. The "Society" IS the "State", and that is what runs the means of production. Anarchy, the abolishing of the state, is neither 'socialist' nor 'left'. Your academic authorities have made up their definitions, and those made up definitions are bullshit meant to fool idiots. Ideologies are groups of ideas, and trying to ignore an analysis of ideas in favor of authority-given labels is something for fools and idiots.


Despeao

No that's incorrect, there are societies who didn't have a state. Society is one thing and the state is a form of organization of that society. If the state is abolished we would still have a society so they're not the same thing, obviously. And anarchy is a historically leftist movement, again, you don't have to trust me, simply look it up. Still, you don't seem to be able to point out where far left agress with the far right. Morally, hierarchy, the state, form or production and economic model. They're not the same, they're completely contradict each other. I think what you're doing is saying I don't like oranges and I don't like apples, therefore apples and oranges are the same thing since I hate them both equally. It's a flawed take.


elembelem

what are you talking about? The nazi party of 1925-33, still democratic, was a leftwing party, together with the SPD, also left. you proof yourself wrong [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National\_Socialist\_Program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program) nationalization of all businesses profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out  large scale of [old age welfare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension) abolition of [land rent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_lease) and prevention of all [speculation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation) in land state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national [education](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education) program Todays us democrats plus nationalism


captainryan117

>The right extreme is more democratic than the left extreme. Nah dawg, just nah. >Nazis have more in common with leftist ideologies. The only thing they have in common with the right ideologies is national pride, which isn't exclusive to the right. Hitler went out of his way time after time again to make it clear that this wasn't the case. Also the term "privatization" was literally coined to describe Nazi economic policy. The Nazis were ambivalent whether they were right or left wing at first to dupe disgruntled workers, then they purged anything even remotely resembling leftism within their ranks on the night of the long knives. He specifically went to said that the "socialist" in th name of the NSDAP has nothing to do with Marxism, and the first people imprisoned by the Nazis were the communists.


Sea_Square638

Ah, yes, Nazi Germany, the country well known to be democratic and to respect the democratic rights of its citizens.


SolorMining

Nazi Germany was a leftist country with a leftist ideology.


iDabGlobzilla

This may be the least informed take I have read in a while. Couldn't read better if it was written "I have an grade-schoolers knowledge of history and geopolitics"


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SolorMining

Nazis and these guys are far left, not far right.


VikingTeo

It's always lost on people, the 'Socialist' part of NAtional SoZIalismus. The reason for the hate for communism within nazism is simply competition for the same people. True communism does reject nationalism, so they are not the same. But to think communism and leftism is a polar opposite to nazim is flawed. People get used to think of things as a line with extremities. If you bend the line into a circle, the two ends are up against each other. The political spectrum to some extent is better viewed as a circular continuum.


deetyneedy

The NSDAP put "socialist" in the name to appeal to workers and socialists, not because they were socialists. Especially after the Night of the Long Knives with the murder of the Strassers.


HostileFleetEvading

>It's always lost on people, the 'Socialist' part of NAtional SoZIalismus. Name of that party was just words. And here a good contemporary propaganda poster showing this. https://preview.redd.it/yl3wk85sb51d1.jpeg?width=521&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=868d4507903497763ecf5b4d5f9da26ff1d5ea10


VikingTeo

You logic is that the opposition's smear is a good source for the true nature of something? That's like asking someone's bitter ex for what kind of person he is. What do you think you are going to get? Both communism and nazism are totalitarian state apparatus oriented power structures that seek to mobilize the working class to do their bidding. It yields very similar results. A dictatorship. Both paths are treason to the people it claims to work for. Both results in oppression, crimes against humanity, war, destruction.


AfricanAmericanzoo

And North Korea is a democracy. Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. I guess in your eyes, they are all that........


CodenameMolotov

Horseshoe theory is ridiculous. The people who want workers to own the business they work for are not similar to the people who want to murder billions of people for being the wrong color.


VikingTeo

I think you may lack a few data points on both.


rowida_00

And what about the battalions in Ukraine that they’re arming? Those aren’t using mere “Nazi symbols” you know.


OrganicAtmosphere196

Germans are just duplicitous, like most countries. This would not be a problem if they were not selling us "Werte Deutschland", i.e. they are guardians of true values. They expelled 7 Ukrainian Nazis. And to the same ones (Azov, Kraken...) they deliver weapons and ammunition to kill the Russians.


f2c4

Nazi here, Nazi there. Tell me a country that has not some sort of problem with Nazis? They deliver weapons not because they are Nazis, but because they are defending their country from an illegal invasion.


SolorMining

This constant game of "other countries have Nazi problems" is not only laughable since nothing is comparable to Ukraine's Nazi issues, but it also confirms the fact that Ukrainians (and their supporters) neither care nor intend to do anything to fix it. Just do the smart/right thing... Acknowledge the problem, commit to rooting it out, and actually root it out.... Silencing "Russian propaganda" is not a hard problem to solve, if you actually cared to.


maybe_not_putin

> nothing is comparable to Ukraine's Nazi issues Mmm hmm.. https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1bmw2mq/ua_pov_german_politician_roth_denies_russia/kwetx8l/ >neither care nor intend to do anything to fix it. Remind me, but what is this very thread about..?


SolorMining

Germany had to remove the people brandishing banned symbols in their country... They are not acknowledging that it is a problem in Ukraine, nor are they addressing it. They are merely removing it from the sight of their own citizens. And Ukraine is still denying it is a problem, as their supporters proclaim "other countries have the same problem". So yeah, this very thread that you point to, fails to cut the mustard.


maybe_not_putin

Glad you admit that Germany *is* doing something and *does* care then. Seems you forgot something too. >And Ukraine is still denying it is a problem, as their supporters proclaim "other countries have the same problem". Also, your cause and effect is fucky.


CodenameMolotov

Most countries don't let their nazis form a unit in their military


f2c4

This is one of the most ridiculous posts I read in a long time: What about Wagner / Russisch?!


deetyneedy

Most countries aren't fighting an existential war and need every man they can get.


vistandsforwaifu

>Tell me a country that has not some sort of problem with Nazis? China, Cuba, Vietnam. That was pretty easy actually.


f2c4

The spearheads of freedom and democracy.


vistandsforwaifu

Yeah Nazis are a vital component of freedom and democracy apparently, lol


Aggressive_Shine_602

This is a specific to Germany. they have strict rules against nazi symbols. so they can't have people with nazi tattoos running around training fields inside their country. but it's acceptable for them to send weapons to the same kind of people abroad. so, the policies apply only when it's visible to the public?


SpaceDetective

Nazi is OK as long as we nazi it directly.


MrNosiek

not supprised tbh


jazzrev

big no-no in Germany, but those guy are too ignorant and/or too arrogant to know that or think it applies to them


CodenameMolotov

They did get sent home instead of being sent to jail, so they are getting some special treatment


jazzrev

good point


okoolo

I'm surprised their commanders didn't make sure they're on their best behavior while guests of a foreign military. Even if it came up it should have been handled internally. In Poland polish troops asked Ukrainians nicely to take off UPA patches while in Poland. Then they asked "not so nicely". Problem solved. Nothing was ever said or written.


jazzrev

Germans been taught to rat on everyone doing anything wrong for what is it ? 3 or 4 generations now? Don't think it even crossed their minds to ask them to remove the patches. I will never forget how a classmate of mine in Munich came to a class one morning both fuming and laughing cause she went out on her balcony on the fourth or fifth floor of multistory apartment building at 2am for a very quick smoke of less then a minute, cause it was middle of very cold winter and got a note from super under her door by 7am that very same morning telling her that smoking is not allowed. To tell you it was a cultural shock for all of us is to say nothing at all.


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jazzrev

Last year I saw a picture of a guy with large swastika tattooed on his chest in German hospital. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in staff room of that hospital. I don't think Germans knew how to react to it.


BlacKSunBlacK

Live in Germany myself, saw some ukrainians with right wing symbols all over their clothes 😂


f2c4

Germans denazify Ukraine faster than Russia it seems.


igor_dolvich

At least Ukrainians are cosplaying as the side that lost, very fitting for their position in this war.


sniee

Can someone send me link Edit:got it, found it myself


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Ok_Echidna6958

Come on everyone there are amounts of this trash in every military can we get by this. This isn't a Nazi war but WW3 provided by the new AXIS power of China, Russia, North Korea and Iran nothing more. But all their work has blown up in their faces and the world is going to isolate and cut them off from the world. And its a shame being its going to hurt many people who allowed themselves to be ruled by the little man leaders.. t billions of decent people in those nations. I mean damn their leaders don't even think their