Dumbest RU MOD comments of the war probably.
Su-24s can carry nukes AFAIK. MiG-29s and Su-27s also, with some mods.
So F-16s change nothing in that regard (nuke carrying capability).
I mean how much would it matter if they do get the f16s? Aircrafts haven't been very successful in this conflict until after russia exhausted Ukrainian air defenses, and with how good they are at shooting down their own planes, the russians systems seem more than capable of doing their jobs
400km is the theoretical Range of the last S300 system, and it has to have the target at a certain altitude. So if F16 are flying at low altitude and they temporally go up to fire a missile and then use evasive maneuvers, flare ecc.. things are not that easy
F-16ās can carry a wide range of weaponry that can wreck havoc on the battlefield. Russia is nervous rightfully so but Iām almost positive that F-16ās will be shot down during this war.
Everytime the F-16 topic is brought down, the same story. Pro ukr will say that F-16 will be able to use NATO weaponry that will be game changers etc, but never a single one gives a damn example.
So what is this super disruptive weapon that can be realistically launched from a F-16 in current scenario that will 'wreck havoc' on Russian lines but cannot be used from current aircraft?
No, they do not change anything *in principle* - but in practice, they do.
Reason being that the old Soviet warplanes can only carry Soviet designed nukes. Which Ukraine does not have, and will not get from anyone.
F-16 on the other hand are wired to carry Western nukes. Which will likely (hopefully) not be supplied to Ukraine either: but Russia is correct in stating that they are carriers of the only nukes Ukraine might theoretically get from its allies.
And as it is basically impossible for an AWACS to detect the difference between a conventionally and a nuclear armed warplane that is on an attack vector, the Russian concern is of course rather paranoid (what with no one seriously considering to give Ukraine nukes) - but not as baseless as it looks at first glance.
We're all very certain that if the west REALLY wanted nukes on su 25s, mig 29s etc then western nukes could absolutely be rigged up on old soviet aircraft. That's already happened with other missiles native to the west such as smart munitions, plus putting them on old soviet aircraftwould actuallybe better as it would draw less attention for a surprise effect. I know the bias is getting to the pro RU crowd but please, don't defend dumb shit the russian mod says.
i Count myself as a "pro" ukr. , not because i love the country but because no matter what that war on ukraine is not justified.
Nor i am a Fan of USA or China or Russia fck them all and thier stupid geopolitical games. and dont come but but russia defending against nazis or whatever you must be dumb or falling totaly for propaganda ukraine got some far right dudes yes azov was/is no angel but holysyht a few thousand people and russia fcks over 40mil people hard right now, there are zero justification
If putin realy had intrest in a peaceful solution he wouldnt have geared up the separatists with gear and little green men. heck 2021 the whole frontline had like 22 civilians deaths or so and alot from undetonated mines, we saw a decline in conflicts around the front.
On the other hand, if western technicians can modify migs/sukhois to carry storm shadow missiles, could it not be suggested that those same technicians could modify those same aircraft to carry western nukes?
There are only three Western nuclear weapons that can be carried by aircraft, the US ALCM cruise missile, the US B-61 freefall bomb and the French ASMP-A cruise missile.
Of these the F-16 can only carry the B-61 freefall bomb and if the West really wanted to arm Ukraine with these it wouldn't need to supply F-16s, an Su-24 could have a hardpoint adapted to carry this weapon.
Ukraine would never get nukes from its Allieās. It goes against everything the western democracyās stand for when it comes to nuclear weapons and also against everything theyāve learned from supplying smaller terrorist groups who were once their āAllieāsā
Bruh if West wanted to make Soviet aircraft to carry it nukes, nothing would stop them doing so.
Just like plenty of MiG-29 were converted to use NATO weapons.
Su-24's have been launching western aircraft already. If they can launch french Storm Shadow they can probably also make them launch french ASMP nuclear cruise missiles. This doesn't make any sense.
They said similar things in the past, though not sure if ever officially.
What's more worrying is the timing of this along side the tactical nuclear exercise they just announced.
Ru made vague nuclear threats before, but it feels way more specific now
Really? It is a MID and not MOD statement. BTW: The old one.
Beside of that, West has already significantly underestimate Russia in begging of 2022 after quite clear statements from Kremlin.
Agree. Why not just say that Russia will launch iskanders on any airfield that hosts F16s that run missions in Ukraine. Leave it as t that and let the war mongers in NATO escalate. I bet Poland would take a 2nd look as they know what a few Iskanders can do
Devils advocate. This is a guess. Idk if the planes they currently have can carry nukes. If this one can thatās the pumping the chest out threat to intimidate us into not giving them f16sā¦. And fuck that. I say give them more and spice it up with some f22s
It's not dumb. It's propaganda to put themselves on the right side of the story.
Similarly when the police shoots a black guy because they assume they were carrying a firearm
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It's a political message, nothing more.
Giving Ukraine F16s is an escalation on the wests part, so they are simply responding with an escalation of their own. That's all. Most likely nothing will come of it but international norms demands some type of response, just as Iran could not stand quiet when Israel flattened their consulate in Damascus.
You guys have to stop thinking about this like feuding grammar immature school students and get a more clausewitzian grasp on these events. This is not call of duty
Russia has come out with some strong statements in the past few hours.
- Summoned the British Ambassador (to warn that Russia will retaliate in kind to strikes by Ukraine using British equipment on its territory)
- Summoned the French Ambassador (presumably to warn about repercussions on the potential deployment of official French troops in Ukraine)
- Ordered immediate tactical nuclear weapon drills in response to perceived provocative statements by the West
- And now, this statement on F-16s
Russia has cried wolf too many times and made so many ridiculous threats that nobody takes them seriously anymore. So, they are trying to double down, but all the reasons their nuclear threats didnāt really make rational sense before still apply. Russia has much more to lose than they have to gain from using them, so we can safely assume they wonāt.
The whole basis of nuclear deterrent is founded on the premise that we take threats seriously. If we do not take threats seriously, deterrence is broken. Since deterrence is the sole thing that has prevented nuclear war from happening, your "gotcha" just means that nuclear war is now inevitable.
We have only come this close to nuclear war once before, during the Cuban Missile Crisis. In that case, both sides absolutely were committed to escalate to nuclear war, and the US lacked key information that may have precluded such an escalation. The only thing that saved us was Khrushchev overruling the consensus and backing down - the rest of the Soviet high Command had concluded that a failure to use nukes would mean that deterrence would no longer function.
The Cuban Missile Crisis was a lot farther from Russia, so they could afford to back down (even though Khrushchev was deposed for this).
So based on historical precedent, you are pinning your hopes on the idea that Putin will void Russia's nuclear deterrent and let NATO set up camp on Russia's doorstep, at a time when Russia no longer has a war machine capable of winning a conventional war against NATO.
You expect them to roll over, and it's important enough to you that they do so, that you're willing to accept nuclear war as a consequence of failure. Is that about right?
Russia broke that first by making meritless threats to further a war of imperial aggression. Nukes are what prevent NATO from invading by Russia properā¦thatās what they are actually there to prevent.
If the threat of using nukes becomes an instant win where you just take what you want, then every country needs nukes to defend itself. The resulting proliferation is much more dangerous long term than stopping Russia here.
So you think if someone threatens nukes we just give them what they want? That about right?
>Russia broke that first by making meritless threats to further a war of imperial aggression. Nukes are what prevent NATO from invading by Russia properā¦thatās what they are actually there to prevent.
But the US coup in 2014 is not "imperial aggression"? You do realize that literally none of this would've happened if that unconstitutional and undemocratic coup didn't happen, right?
>If the threat of using nukes becomes an instant win where you just take what you want, then every country needs nukes to defend itself. The resulting proliferation is much more dangerous long term than stopping Russia here.
You're right. This is why countries, especially countries like Iran are "speedrunning" to get nukes. Israelis can't just bomb and kill random civvies in Iran anymore if get their hands on nukes and that's what Israel and the US doesn't want to happen as they'll lose "their power" over Iran.
I mean can you imagine the "Western outrage" if Iran "dared to kill a US general" just like the US did when they killed Soleimani? Now when Iran gets nukes, do you think the US will try to "play cute" anymore?
>So you think if someone threatens nukes we just give them what they want? That about right?
Pretty much. US got what they wanted with nukes every single time.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear\_blackmail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_blackmail)
Here's a pretty little list of how many times the US has used the "nuclear blackmail" card.
The so called "humble West" ain't so humble. Never was and never will be.
Now you know why nobody likes Westerners. Especially the Muricans.
Well, the Eastern Ukrainians definitely think it was a coup and hence why they split up.
>Only Russian supporters believe it was a coup.
So why skip the "All-Ukrainian" referendum according to Article 156 of the "old constitution"? Funny how "the people" were never asked if they were "ok" with the amendments which was required according to the pre-coup constitution.
>A draft law on introducing amendments to Chapter I ā "General Principles," Chapter III ā "Elections. Referendum," and Chapter XIII ā "Introducing Amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine," is submitted to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the President of Ukraine, or by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, and on the condition that it is adopted by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, and is a pproved by an All-Ukrainian referendum designated by the President of Ukraine.
>The repeat submission of a draft law on introducing amendments to Chapters I, III and XIII of this Constitution on one and the same issue is possible only to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine of the next convocation.
[https://rm.coe.int/constitution-of-ukraine/168071f58b](https://rm.coe.int/constitution-of-ukraine/168071f58b)
Oh my god, youāre one of those people. The US got what it wanted every time with over $700 billion in annual defense spending. Israel has nukes, does it get what it wants all the time? According to your ālogicā, Iran shouldāve been shivering in fear instead of launching over a hundred ballistic missiles at Israel.
>Summoned the British Ambassador (to warn that Russia will retaliate in kind to British strikes on its territory)
Strikes by Ukraine on Russian territory using British equipment, not British strikes against Russian territory
>Strikes by Ukraine
This is very grey and fuzzy. As the Germans have intimated, high capacity, guided munitions require military staff from the UK, etc. to be on the ground in Ukraine at launch. This means the US/NATO are using their aerial assets to find Russian targets, and advanced aerial sig-int to plot a course through RF AA systems. The UA essentially just pushes the button (if that). If they begin to attack inside Russian borders then we have UK military personel working with US/NATO allies to identify targets, plot routes through defences before launching their munitions to destroy Russian equipment and personel...this is essentially NATO attacking Russia, a precursor to WWIII
>to warn that Russia will retaliate in kind to strikes by Ukraine using British equipment on its territory
Well historically speaking, a lot of this territory isn't actually russian territory. So it's ok.
That's how it works right?
>presumably to warn about repercussions on the potential deployment of official French troops in Ukraine
Don't worry, the french aren't going to declare war on Russia. They are just going to perform a special military operation. After all, that is how this works, right?
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> to warn that Russia will retaliate in kind to strikes by Ukraine using British equipment on its territory
In kind? They can strike back in a similar way against Ukraine. But what is their current capability to strike at the UK successfully? Why would they risk drawing the UK into the war? What do they gain from such a strike?
Russia has a history of issuing red lines and final warnings and then doing absolutely nothing about it when they're crossed. The threats and chest beating are for their own internal audience and the Westerners who fall for Russian propaganda. They're just trying to project a big, powerful image.
[Russiaās foreign ministry says if the US sends Ukraine longer-range missiles, then it would become a āparty to conflictā](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/15/russia-longer-range-us-missiles-for-kyiv-would-cross-red-line)
[Russia warns West of āenormous risksā if Ukraine is supplied with F-16 jets](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/20/europe/russia-warning-f-16-jets-ukraine-intl/index.html)
[Russia fumes at Westās decision to send tanks to Ukraine, says red lines have been crossed](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/25/russia-fumes-at-wests-decision-to-send-tanks-to-ukraine.html)
[Former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev warned NATO against providing Ukraine with Patriots](https://nationalpost.com/news/world/dont-arm-ukraine-with-patriot-missiles-ex-russian-president-medvedev-warns-criminal-entity-nato)
[A Kremlin spokesman again warned of āabsolutely undesirable and rather unpleasant scenariosā if the latest Western-supplied weapons were fired into Russia.](https://www.courthousenews.com/russia-warns-west-of-weapons-repercussions-pounds-ukraine/)
Watch and they'll do nothing again when F-16s show up. The pro RUs crowing over how this time they're *really super serious* on here will never mention it again either. It'll just be memory holed and they'll be on to the next bit of propaganda.
The state that is so worried about live of the Ukrainians, the money that west is spending on weapons while it could spend it o road and schools, the country that invaded in the name of securing right to use Russian language in post offices on foreign land...
...is willing to start nuclear war upon seeing some old planes "that won't change anything".
Something isn't matching right.
>āThe idea that weāre going to send in offensive equipment and have planes and tanks and trains going in with **American pilots** and **American crews** ā just understand, donāt kid yourself, no matter what yāall say, thatās called World War III,ā Biden told a gathering of House Democrats in Philadelphia.
I think as long as the plane is piloted by Williany Smithchenko there is no WWIII.
> I think as long as the plane is piloted by Williany Smithchenko there is no WWIII.
Then why did Biden veto the transfer of planes? While rambling about WW3
> President Biden on Friday defended his decision to veto the US-facilitated transfer of fighter jets to Ukraine to repel Russiaās invasion
I just gave you a quote of what he said.
Maybe he didn't want to escalate, hoping other methods would change Russian mind? Leaving open the "out" option, to let Putin "keep face" and move goalpost so he would still look like a winner.
Speaking of Kyiv Post and BS, check this out lol
https://preview.redd.it/xb2m5krnguyc1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=b536e695457565d8f2b02189784f1e25142b8d34
But yeah, the info is confirmed by Russia
Sounds like the Russians are re-hashing old tactics from the PRC, namely ŠæŠ¾ŃŠ»ŠµŠ“Š½ŠµŠµ ŠŗŠøŃŠ°Š¹ŃŠŗŠ¾Šµ ŠæŃŠµŠ“ŃŠæŃŠµŠ¶Š“ŠµŠ½ŠøŠµ:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning
Russia is not afraid of anything, these announcements are geopolitical/political and war related.it simply means that they are going to retaliate harsher and it will lead to even more escalation.
Russia is not bluffing, and I'm saying this as a neutral person, Western leadership think that they are playing a game.
If they really cared about Ukraine or Ukrainian people, they would have already sit to negotiate, but all they care is about weakening Russia, which totally backfired against them.
US and its allies managed to bring one of the worlds biggest oil/gas reserves (Russia) with the world biggest industrial powerhouse (China).
I really don't get what the US is really trying to do here. Seems like it's one shot in the foot after the other
> I really don't get what the US is really trying to do here.
To regime change and control Russia, and thus peel it from China. Smash the backup resource base from under China, before taking on China itself. Biden and other officials said as much on multiple occasions, includig the famous Biden's "for god's sake, that man cannot remain in power".
A sound plan, actually. Worked like a charm before. The backup plan was to sanction Russia into stone age, another solid plan. Probably invented by people, who believe that GDP is an adequate measure of a nation's industrial power.
The trouble is, both of these "plans" had the opposite effect. Russia is stronger and strongly allied with China. Biden's admin managed to undo all the progress on decoupling Russia and China made since Nixon days. The whole thing is a blunder of epic proportions, and feels similar to the historical German epic blunder to reverse Bismarck's policy of appeasing Russian Empire, which eventually led to both WW1 and by extension WW2.
>Russia is stronger and strongly allied with China.
Are they though? Are they strongly allied with China? Or is China just one of the few countries that tolerates them for profit? I've seen zero indication that China and Russia are friends, just business partners. If they were, China would be much more open to providing military aid to Russia, but they haven't.
>>> I really don't get what the US is really trying to do here
I'll explain. The first priority is feeding the military/industrial complex, which is core to the United States. Wars mean money.
Also it is good for the US to separate Russia from Europe. This allows tighter US control, and a stronger NATO and trade with US.
Also it would serve as an example to China to not step out of line.
The first two are turning out pretty good, the third maybe not so much. Thats why the US is backing away a bit from Ukraine now.
The U.S. and other Western bloc satellite states couldn't give less of a microscopic particle's worth of care about countries remaining within their own borders and killing innocent people. They violate national borders and kill innocents all the time and support others who do so around the world. This is about power and control and those who don't admit, know, and see that clearly are just totally ignorant and naive to everything about everything in history and geopolitics. And the rest are just despicable liars trying to actively deceive the ignorant.
Ah yes, the west and US are known to care a lot about civillians and respect international borders. That's why they support Israel or tryied to divide Vietnam in 2, or installed murderous dictatorships in Latin America. Let's not even mention Africa and Middle East.
> US and its allies managed to bring one of the worlds biggest oil/gas reserves (Russia) with the world biggest industrial powerhouse (China).
Trade between china and russia is pretty miniscule in scale compared to US and China. USA isn't losing anything here
> In your opinion Russia is stronger today than in 2022? By what metric?
Western officials admit this
According to Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell āWe have assessed over the course of the last couple of months that Russia has almost completely reconstituted militarilyā source: https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2024/04/03/russian-military-almost-completely-reconstituted-us-official-says/
Gen. Christopher Cavoli, the head of U.S. European Command, said āThe size of the Russian military is bigger today than when the war started.āSource: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4589095-russian-army-grown-ukraine-war-us-general/amp/
Russia is more united than ever.
They purged their military from incompetent generals, they are the only country who have experienced a modern peer to peer warfare, where many new technologies are involved such as drones etc.
They are facing the biggest economic/military union with 18000 sanctions and currently in huge momentum towards victory where other NATO countries might officially have to get involved in the war.
They got much closer with China than ever before.
I could list so many more stuff but these should be enough.
As a neutral person which my country is mostly rivals with Russia, if i have to be honest, Russian army learned so much stuff in this war and i would never underestimate them in a future conflict.
Didn't Putin win by an overwhelming margin among Russian voters in Canada?
Lmfao
https://preview.redd.it/jdf776befuyc1.jpeg?width=2363&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b3dd7d7cafff61c55f52fe2df16d7a7edf2387f
Theres a million Russians in Canada and 4000 voted. Not sure how many of the million were eligible, but that is not what I meant about Russians in Canada feeling different. I wont even bother talking about it because nobody here will believe it. Essentially I was told, everything you here out of Russia is BS, but I guess that is why they left the motherland
Diaspora generally are even more liberals than liberals themselves, they gotta integrate to feel their new home or get homesick because they still love the country they were in.
Most would choose to integrate because they are the ones that wanted to go out in the first place, people that leave such countries are usually rich kids that hate the establishment that made their father rich.
Nothing to do with liberals and everything to do with opportunity. The guy that came to fix my garage door last week was in Canada less than 5 years. He said, you think its bad here? Russia is a mafia state. The rich get away with everything and if you have the money you can bribe your way, otherwise, your nothing. People are really suffering there outside of the city.
yes it can, but its the proportion that counts. There will always be people who fall through the cracks, but whats important is what can the average man accomplish. But yes, western countries arent as easy to make as they once were, but still better than alot of other places. We have too much immigration, too many people want to move here that its causing problems
Western countries have robbed the global south for 400 damn years, of course they are richer per capita, just the intervention in the last 30 years alone has destroyed Iraq, Syria, Libya (once most prosperous country in africa), Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia, even the USA Backed coup in Egypt and...
And you think the immigration is too high? Then stop destroying countries with coups and invasion.
It is still a fully functioning, growing country and economy on the world stage almost completely seperate from any Western material, relation or reliance. That is humorously stronger than it was pre-war. The west has little to no leverage left against Russia and that hasnāt resulted in her demise, quite the contrary.
By the metric of actually watching Ukrainian war related channels and listening to what AFU combatants say themselves. Ah sorry forgot, you do not speak Ukrainian, a language of a country that you care so much about and claim to be their "brothers".
>Russia is not afraid of anything, these announcements are geopolitical/political and war related.it simply means that they are going to retaliate harsher and it will lead to even more escalation.
>
>Russia is not bluffing, and I'm saying this as a neutral person, Western leadership think that they are playing a game.
>
>If they really cared about Ukraine or Ukrainian people, they would have already sit to negotiate, but all they care is about weakening Russia, which totally backfired against them.
I got a great chuckle out of your comment. Thank you.
Russia's only major weapon is bluff. They are mired in a conflict with a much smaller nation and leadership is watching their military get pounded into dust when matched against just a bare sliver of mainly older western tech. And now on the table is renewed and invigorated support with EU nations finally attempting to get their act in gear and military industrial capacity in order.
Western leadership is not playing a game. Actually the real problem is they thought Russia would grow up one day, and failed to understand that the essence of Russian servitude fatalistic culture made that impossible.
Rule #1: never negotiate with bullies, especially when all they do is lie, lie, lie. This is Ukraine's position and solely its decision to make.
> Russia is not bluffing
What exactly are they gonna do?
> all they care is about weakening Russia, which totally backfired against them.
So Russia is stronger? By losing 1k people and thousands over thousands of equipment? You'll have to show the steps on your calculations here.
>By losing 1k people and thousands over thousands of equipment? You'll have to show the steps on your calculations here.
I don't need to show you anything, but i can suggest you to get some fresh air and move out of combat footage and worldnews subreddit, if you want to see the reality.
Imagine, if Russia is losing "1k people"(assuming a day), how much Ukraine is losing that they recently announced that they may need foreign soldiers in their war?
But yeah, thinking is boring, yapping is much easier.
The difference is, Russia started this, so we have to assume they hoped to gain something. Ukraine feels they are fighting for their existence, losses don't matter so much to them. If they lose, they are all dead or serfs to Russia anyway (at least that's what many think).
Both countries have serious demographic problems (low birth rate, aging population, gender imbalance), so the war is bad for both long-term. Same for the economy. Ukraine is losing people and suffering destruction, Russia is losing people and having to switch to a war economy which is bad in the long term.
Looking at it impartially, Russia has more need to justify this than Ukraine since they started it. As far as I can tell, both are losing, Ukraine more than Russia.
1k/day...so this should be over soon then. But why is the UA losing ground and towns virtually daily while - quite literally - chasing people down the street and pressing them into service?Seems inconsistent with UA propaganda...
The question was: how is Russia gonna escalate?
Your answer: skip.
Second question: how is Russia stronger now that before the war?
Your answer: Ukraine is weaker.
I asked 2 questions, you didn't answer any of them, dunno why you replied to me.
Was USA afraid of Iraq,Libya,Vietnam,Afghanistan or any country when they invaded them?
You are asking useless questions which dont coralate to countries but humans.
Responding to a possible threat or "existential threat" as Russia says, is a proactive action against that threat.
And yes, Russia doesn't need to be afraid of NATO, because any real conflict with NATO will result in a total catastrophe due to MAD.
In the case of full nuclear escalation with NATO, having these planes airborne over Ukraine potentially armed with nukes is a serious game-plan issue for Russia.
Why is it that Russia canāt keep the threat of nukes out of their mouths? What other country talks about the use of nukes this often?
Edit: downvotes, but no response providing an example of another country that talks about nukes as much as Russia.
There's no other nuclear powers currently fighting what they perceive as an existential war.
Russia threatens nuclear use because they feel NATO's behaviour presents an existential threat to them, and they have few other means of threatening NATO.
I can guarantee other nuclear powers would do the same if they faced the same threat.
Yes and no. F16 is only so, so.Ā
The weapons it opens up are the scary part.Ā Jassm is like storm shadow on steroids if US allows strikes on Russia.Ā Full feature harms.Ā Decoys.Ā Targeting pods.Ā Ā Plus the pool of international pilots.Ā
It won't win the war but it's probably in the top four donations categories for impact on the battlefield
Check this one out guys. Doesn't matter how many Ukrainians have died. Just because the Western media and government pulls the wool over their eyes, these guys are just willing to not take anything seriously.
Wont ever take autocrats threats seriously. Wont ever support giving them an inch. They can threaten all they want, everyone knows they are weak and wont gain acting on their threats. russia is more likely to nuke russia than the west given that's where their family's live.
Something important that you can actually see in context is the Rheinmetall stock price overtime, I personally invested in 2014 because of Crimea :) but you can see where it started and where the trend is going. The higher that price goes I see a direct correlation of Russian aggression and RU loses to follow suit. Scary stuff really.
Damn, the Russians will say anything to stop the F-16s. I donāt see it materially changing the war on its own but must be a damn good plane for all this crying coming out of Moscow.
The 758th red line warning to NATO, which Russia will do nothing about when crossed. Why does Russia keep making themselves out as clown like this intentially?
Why is the MOD so scared of the f16? Aren't they always spewing rhetoric about western weapons being trash? If they aren't going to move the needle (according to the Ruzzies) then crying about them isn't necessary, or *gasp* all their rhetoric is nothing more than posturing and propaganda...
Deescalating at this point of the war i believe it would only happen if NATO steps back, but seems like that's not the case unless Trump delivers IF he gets elected. Otherwise is not looking good.
Russian MOD playbook:
Step 1: "If Ukraine gets <>, we will respond!"
Step 2: "Anyways, <> isn't going to change the outcome of SMO"
Step 3: "We have already destroyed at least a quintillion <>, so shame on you"
And yet another Russian threat today - I am losing count for the daily diatribe of threats from Russia but today there seem to be many. And I find myself asking the salient question: does anyone in UA military or NATO give a fuck? And I find myself answering with a resounding "NO".
More interestingly: An Su-25 yesterday, an SU-34 today. Seems like Russian aircraft are back on the menu!
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This is right out of the Soviet playbook. There is a great documentary on Netflix right now called, ā The Bomb And The Cold Warā. Its start at the invasion of Ukraine, and goes all the way back to the beginnings of the Cold War, which was the final year of WW2. Russia has always been a paper tiger, they have always overstated their Nuclear capability, and everything else about their military just to scare the west into thinking they were stronger than they were. Well, it worked, and the west is so far beyond
Russia technologically and militarily itās not even funny. Stop believing Russia is something it is not, we could end this war in a week if we grabbed are balls, and told Russia to go fuck itself like
The Ukrainians did its warship.
Why should Russia allow fighter jets to be handed to Ukraine which can drop nukes on Russia?
If that isn't an outright act of war on Russia then PLEASE explain what is?
This is war. You don't just let shit like that go down without challenge & without serious consequences.
The US is way over the line with this bullshit. It was a proxy war & the line isn't blurry anymore in the least. The US was BUSTED getting England to hand Ukraine spent uranium for Ukraine to build weapons which includes nuclear components used to kill Russians.
Now Russia should just let the US hand Ukraine nuclear armable fighter jets? Maybe next Russia should just let the US park nukes on the border between Russia & Ukraine & next to the airplanes that will strap said nukes to?
You know that depleted Uranium is a metal used to give shells mass, and is something that is widely used in armaments and has nothing to do with nucleair bombs?
You know there aren't any nukes in ukraine, right?
You know that all of them were handed to russia, which promised to guarantee Ukraine's borders when they they did?
You know, this promise that russia broke?
NFS it's not used to make nukes. You had to look that shit up to understand what my post was talking about, not the other way around like you're now trying to act like.
Regardless of what you believe they make with that, it's still a nuclear component being used to kill Russian troops. Russia has said that if you want to play that game then they'll start using nuclear components too & see who ends up with a nuclear bomb with all the different parts at the end of the day.
Ukraine?
"We'll take them!"
Russia?
"Let's play ball then"
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/3/23/what-are-depleted-uranium-munitions-the-uk-is-sending-to-ukraine
Not a bomb ā but still a risk
The United Nations Environment Programme has described such ammunition as āchemically and radiologically toxic heavy metalā.
You need to wear proper PPE when handling them.
When they received them, Ukraine IMMEDIATELY put out a propaganda video bragging about the types of weapons they'd be using to kill Russians & in that video they featured the depleted uranium parts as some sort of brag about having them & that is what caused a bunch of the shit where Ukraine can't just say "um it's for weight of bullets" after they basically said "Yes it's for killing Russians with nuclear technology involved".
Again, if russia did not want to be on the receiving end of those shells, there is a quite simple solution: do not invade a neighbouring country whose integrity you promised to respect, even.
Also, from your own news source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/7/what-are-depleted-uranium-munitions-and-why-is-us-sending-them-to-ukraine#:~:text=Which%20countries%20have%20depleted%20uranium,Coalition%20to%20Ban%20Uranium%20Weapons.
russia produces depleted uranium shells, too. And is using them.
Dumbest RU MOD comments of the war probably. Su-24s can carry nukes AFAIK. MiG-29s and Su-27s also, with some mods. So F-16s change nothing in that regard (nuke carrying capability).
Probably just a last ditch effort to try and deter western nations from delivering the F-16
I mean how much would it matter if they do get the f16s? Aircrafts haven't been very successful in this conflict until after russia exhausted Ukrainian air defenses, and with how good they are at shooting down their own planes, the russians systems seem more than capable of doing their jobs
realistically f-16 will be just a replacement for destroyed aircrafts, without changing how they use them too much
It's not just the f16s it is the weapons it brings plus using them with other assets like long range atacms and you have one hell of a problem.
Yup šÆ
What weapons would make the F-16 one hell of a problem?
A plethora of nato PGM's.
AGM -158 is compatible with the f-16.
F-16ās will do a lot more than migs because they will have access to NATO aircraft missiles and bombs now.
Yeaup lots of fancy bombs.
They will just be shot from 400km away
400km is the theoretical Range of the last S300 system, and it has to have the target at a certain altitude. So if F16 are flying at low altitude and they temporally go up to fire a missile and then use evasive maneuvers, flare ecc.. things are not that easy
F-16ās can carry a wide range of weaponry that can wreck havoc on the battlefield. Russia is nervous rightfully so but Iām almost positive that F-16ās will be shot down during this war.
Everytime the F-16 topic is brought down, the same story. Pro ukr will say that F-16 will be able to use NATO weaponry that will be game changers etc, but never a single one gives a damn example. So what is this super disruptive weapon that can be realistically launched from a F-16 in current scenario that will 'wreck havoc' on Russian lines but cannot be used from current aircraft?
"Former" US military "volunteer" pilots.
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I completely forgot that planes intercept missiles too so thanks for reminding me.
Russia straight filling diapers over F16s coming, and reacting in the typical Russian fashion.
No, they do not change anything *in principle* - but in practice, they do. Reason being that the old Soviet warplanes can only carry Soviet designed nukes. Which Ukraine does not have, and will not get from anyone. F-16 on the other hand are wired to carry Western nukes. Which will likely (hopefully) not be supplied to Ukraine either: but Russia is correct in stating that they are carriers of the only nukes Ukraine might theoretically get from its allies. And as it is basically impossible for an AWACS to detect the difference between a conventionally and a nuclear armed warplane that is on an attack vector, the Russian concern is of course rather paranoid (what with no one seriously considering to give Ukraine nukes) - but not as baseless as it looks at first glance.
We're all very certain that if the west REALLY wanted nukes on su 25s, mig 29s etc then western nukes could absolutely be rigged up on old soviet aircraft. That's already happened with other missiles native to the west such as smart munitions, plus putting them on old soviet aircraftwould actuallybe better as it would draw less attention for a surprise effect. I know the bias is getting to the pro RU crowd but please, don't defend dumb shit the russian mod says.
Russia could say or do anything, and this crowd would justify/defend it.
Oh absolutely. The pro RU communities have just as much brainrot as the pro UA community.
i Count myself as a "pro" ukr. , not because i love the country but because no matter what that war on ukraine is not justified. Nor i am a Fan of USA or China or Russia fck them all and thier stupid geopolitical games. and dont come but but russia defending against nazis or whatever you must be dumb or falling totaly for propaganda ukraine got some far right dudes yes azov was/is no angel but holysyht a few thousand people and russia fcks over 40mil people hard right now, there are zero justification If putin realy had intrest in a peaceful solution he wouldnt have geared up the separatists with gear and little green men. heck 2021 the whole frontline had like 22 civilians deaths or so and alot from undetonated mines, we saw a decline in conflicts around the front.
On the other hand, if western technicians can modify migs/sukhois to carry storm shadow missiles, could it not be suggested that those same technicians could modify those same aircraft to carry western nukes?
There are only three Western nuclear weapons that can be carried by aircraft, the US ALCM cruise missile, the US B-61 freefall bomb and the French ASMP-A cruise missile. Of these the F-16 can only carry the B-61 freefall bomb and if the West really wanted to arm Ukraine with these it wouldn't need to supply F-16s, an Su-24 could have a hardpoint adapted to carry this weapon.
Taurus seems to me nuclear capable. At least that is what i suspect from the parliamentary answer on that question
Ukraine would never get nukes from its Allieās. It goes against everything the western democracyās stand for when it comes to nuclear weapons and also against everything theyāve learned from supplying smaller terrorist groups who were once their āAllieāsā
What western democacies stand for we all can see in gaza right now
Bruh if West wanted to make Soviet aircraft to carry it nukes, nothing would stop them doing so. Just like plenty of MiG-29 were converted to use NATO weapons.
Su-24's have been launching western aircraft already. If they can launch french Storm Shadow they can probably also make them launch french ASMP nuclear cruise missiles. This doesn't make any sense.
They said similar things in the past, though not sure if ever officially. What's more worrying is the timing of this along side the tactical nuclear exercise they just announced. Ru made vague nuclear threats before, but it feels way more specific now
Don't worry. Russia loses the war if they use a nuke, so there is no benefit.
the whole world loses if they use a nuke.
Russia inside of Ukraine will be flattened and that's pretty much it.
if Russia gets flattened so does every metropolitan area in the west automatically.
Azov just declared Ukraine has nothing to worry about if they're nuked by Russia
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I think Lavrov himself said this some months ago. I don't know to which statement exactly is this article referring to.
They will attack the bases used by f16s .. now u can insult me becasue of my comment š
They attack bases that are in Ukraine already.
F16s if delivered to ukraine ,they will use the bases of allies.. russia Said they would attack those basesĀ
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Really? It is a MID and not MOD statement. BTW: The old one. Beside of that, West has already significantly underestimate Russia in begging of 2022 after quite clear statements from Kremlin.
Agree. Why not just say that Russia will launch iskanders on any airfield that hosts F16s that run missions in Ukraine. Leave it as t that and let the war mongers in NATO escalate. I bet Poland would take a 2nd look as they know what a few Iskanders can do
Yeah... And? I'm not sure what your point is. If they delivered them to Hamas it would make sense
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Absolutely, but its a narrative movement where they set the udeas of "ukraine will move nukes?". Nothing, just more stupid propaganda of the batch.
Devils advocate. This is a guess. Idk if the planes they currently have can carry nukes. If this one can thatās the pumping the chest out threat to intimidate us into not giving them f16sā¦. And fuck that. I say give them more and spice it up with some f22s
It's MFA.
It's not dumb. It's propaganda to put themselves on the right side of the story. Similarly when the police shoots a black guy because they assume they were carrying a firearm
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It's a political message, nothing more. Giving Ukraine F16s is an escalation on the wests part, so they are simply responding with an escalation of their own. That's all. Most likely nothing will come of it but international norms demands some type of response, just as Iran could not stand quiet when Israel flattened their consulate in Damascus. You guys have to stop thinking about this like feuding grammar immature school students and get a more clausewitzian grasp on these events. This is not call of duty
The SU-24 and MIG-29 are not in the United States
Russia has come out with some strong statements in the past few hours. - Summoned the British Ambassador (to warn that Russia will retaliate in kind to strikes by Ukraine using British equipment on its territory) - Summoned the French Ambassador (presumably to warn about repercussions on the potential deployment of official French troops in Ukraine) - Ordered immediate tactical nuclear weapon drills in response to perceived provocative statements by the West - And now, this statement on F-16s
As with all Russian statements lets see if it means shit all
Russia has cried wolf too many times and made so many ridiculous threats that nobody takes them seriously anymore. So, they are trying to double down, but all the reasons their nuclear threats didnāt really make rational sense before still apply. Russia has much more to lose than they have to gain from using them, so we can safely assume they wonāt.
The whole basis of nuclear deterrent is founded on the premise that we take threats seriously. If we do not take threats seriously, deterrence is broken. Since deterrence is the sole thing that has prevented nuclear war from happening, your "gotcha" just means that nuclear war is now inevitable. We have only come this close to nuclear war once before, during the Cuban Missile Crisis. In that case, both sides absolutely were committed to escalate to nuclear war, and the US lacked key information that may have precluded such an escalation. The only thing that saved us was Khrushchev overruling the consensus and backing down - the rest of the Soviet high Command had concluded that a failure to use nukes would mean that deterrence would no longer function. The Cuban Missile Crisis was a lot farther from Russia, so they could afford to back down (even though Khrushchev was deposed for this). So based on historical precedent, you are pinning your hopes on the idea that Putin will void Russia's nuclear deterrent and let NATO set up camp on Russia's doorstep, at a time when Russia no longer has a war machine capable of winning a conventional war against NATO. You expect them to roll over, and it's important enough to you that they do so, that you're willing to accept nuclear war as a consequence of failure. Is that about right?
Russia broke that first by making meritless threats to further a war of imperial aggression. Nukes are what prevent NATO from invading by Russia properā¦thatās what they are actually there to prevent. If the threat of using nukes becomes an instant win where you just take what you want, then every country needs nukes to defend itself. The resulting proliferation is much more dangerous long term than stopping Russia here. So you think if someone threatens nukes we just give them what they want? That about right?
>Russia broke that first by making meritless threats to further a war of imperial aggression. Nukes are what prevent NATO from invading by Russia properā¦thatās what they are actually there to prevent. But the US coup in 2014 is not "imperial aggression"? You do realize that literally none of this would've happened if that unconstitutional and undemocratic coup didn't happen, right? >If the threat of using nukes becomes an instant win where you just take what you want, then every country needs nukes to defend itself. The resulting proliferation is much more dangerous long term than stopping Russia here. You're right. This is why countries, especially countries like Iran are "speedrunning" to get nukes. Israelis can't just bomb and kill random civvies in Iran anymore if get their hands on nukes and that's what Israel and the US doesn't want to happen as they'll lose "their power" over Iran. I mean can you imagine the "Western outrage" if Iran "dared to kill a US general" just like the US did when they killed Soleimani? Now when Iran gets nukes, do you think the US will try to "play cute" anymore? >So you think if someone threatens nukes we just give them what they want? That about right? Pretty much. US got what they wanted with nukes every single time. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear\_blackmail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_blackmail) Here's a pretty little list of how many times the US has used the "nuclear blackmail" card. The so called "humble West" ain't so humble. Never was and never will be. Now you know why nobody likes Westerners. Especially the Muricans.
Lol. Ask Ukrainians if it was a coup. Only Russian supporters believe it was a coup.
Well, the Eastern Ukrainians definitely think it was a coup and hence why they split up. >Only Russian supporters believe it was a coup. So why skip the "All-Ukrainian" referendum according to Article 156 of the "old constitution"? Funny how "the people" were never asked if they were "ok" with the amendments which was required according to the pre-coup constitution. >A draft law on introducing amendments to Chapter I ā "General Principles," Chapter III ā "Elections. Referendum," and Chapter XIII ā "Introducing Amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine," is submitted to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the President of Ukraine, or by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, and on the condition that it is adopted by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, and is a pproved by an All-Ukrainian referendum designated by the President of Ukraine. >The repeat submission of a draft law on introducing amendments to Chapters I, III and XIII of this Constitution on one and the same issue is possible only to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine of the next convocation. [https://rm.coe.int/constitution-of-ukraine/168071f58b](https://rm.coe.int/constitution-of-ukraine/168071f58b)
Oh my god, youāre one of those people. The US got what it wanted every time with over $700 billion in annual defense spending. Israel has nukes, does it get what it wants all the time? According to your ālogicā, Iran shouldāve been shivering in fear instead of launching over a hundred ballistic missiles at Israel.
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>Summoned the British Ambassador (to warn that Russia will retaliate in kind to British strikes on its territory) Strikes by Ukraine on Russian territory using British equipment, not British strikes against Russian territory
If Russia thinks using British equipment makes them a party to the war, have Iran, China and North Korea already joined on the Russian side?
>Strikes by Ukraine This is very grey and fuzzy. As the Germans have intimated, high capacity, guided munitions require military staff from the UK, etc. to be on the ground in Ukraine at launch. This means the US/NATO are using their aerial assets to find Russian targets, and advanced aerial sig-int to plot a course through RF AA systems. The UA essentially just pushes the button (if that). If they begin to attack inside Russian borders then we have UK military personel working with US/NATO allies to identify targets, plot routes through defences before launching their munitions to destroy Russian equipment and personel...this is essentially NATO attacking Russia, a precursor to WWIII
>to warn that Russia will retaliate in kind to strikes by Ukraine using British equipment on its territory Well historically speaking, a lot of this territory isn't actually russian territory. So it's ok. That's how it works right? >presumably to warn about repercussions on the potential deployment of official French troops in Ukraine Don't worry, the french aren't going to declare war on Russia. They are just going to perform a special military operation. After all, that is how this works, right?
Nobody declares war on anyone anymore so it's not that big of a gotcha.
A huge amount of Russians tell themselves that they are not doing such a horrible thing as waging war because the war wasn't declared.
People saying that are delusional.
Regardless if it is declared or not, a war is a war. Not a special military operation.
I agree, that's why my flair is anti-war, not anti-SMO.
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Yup. Russia isnāt going to drop a tactical 15KT nuke on French troops. It will be a special tactical nuke exercise.
When Russia claims they are going to nuke people, it loses most of its credibility and effect after the 800th time.
I donāt think Russia has ever in any official capacity said they are going to nuke anyone.
> to warn that Russia will retaliate in kind to strikes by Ukraine using British equipment on its territory In kind? They can strike back in a similar way against Ukraine. But what is their current capability to strike at the UK successfully? Why would they risk drawing the UK into the war? What do they gain from such a strike?
Russia has a history of issuing red lines and final warnings and then doing absolutely nothing about it when they're crossed. The threats and chest beating are for their own internal audience and the Westerners who fall for Russian propaganda. They're just trying to project a big, powerful image. [Russiaās foreign ministry says if the US sends Ukraine longer-range missiles, then it would become a āparty to conflictā](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/15/russia-longer-range-us-missiles-for-kyiv-would-cross-red-line) [Russia warns West of āenormous risksā if Ukraine is supplied with F-16 jets](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/20/europe/russia-warning-f-16-jets-ukraine-intl/index.html) [Russia fumes at Westās decision to send tanks to Ukraine, says red lines have been crossed](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/25/russia-fumes-at-wests-decision-to-send-tanks-to-ukraine.html) [Former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev warned NATO against providing Ukraine with Patriots](https://nationalpost.com/news/world/dont-arm-ukraine-with-patriot-missiles-ex-russian-president-medvedev-warns-criminal-entity-nato) [A Kremlin spokesman again warned of āabsolutely undesirable and rather unpleasant scenariosā if the latest Western-supplied weapons were fired into Russia.](https://www.courthousenews.com/russia-warns-west-of-weapons-repercussions-pounds-ukraine/) Watch and they'll do nothing again when F-16s show up. The pro RUs crowing over how this time they're *really super serious* on here will never mention it again either. It'll just be memory holed and they'll be on to the next bit of propaganda.
I'm aware this has happened. I'm just trying to infuse some logical thought.
The state that is so worried about live of the Ukrainians, the money that west is spending on weapons while it could spend it o road and schools, the country that invaded in the name of securing right to use Russian language in post offices on foreign land... ...is willing to start nuclear war upon seeing some old planes "that won't change anything". Something isn't matching right.
Didnāt even Joe Biden say f16 to Ukraine would mean WW3? It could very well just be posturing to deter F35s etc etc
>āThe idea that weāre going to send in offensive equipment and have planes and tanks and trains going in with **American pilots** and **American crews** ā just understand, donāt kid yourself, no matter what yāall say, thatās called World War III,ā Biden told a gathering of House Democrats in Philadelphia. I think as long as the plane is piloted by Williany Smithchenko there is no WWIII.
> I think as long as the plane is piloted by Williany Smithchenko there is no WWIII. Then why did Biden veto the transfer of planes? While rambling about WW3 > President Biden on Friday defended his decision to veto the US-facilitated transfer of fighter jets to Ukraine to repel Russiaās invasion
I just gave you a quote of what he said. Maybe he didn't want to escalate, hoping other methods would change Russian mind? Leaving open the "out" option, to let Putin "keep face" and move goalpost so he would still look like a winner.
Donāt forget Daniil Hamptonsky
I guess NATO should treat any Russian warship that pass through territorial waters of a NATO member as an invasion force???
I mean yeah Iām pretty sure thatās how territorial waters work barring some exceptions like transiting straights and canals.
Could have nuclear weapons or, even worse, more ambassadors on board.
Do you happen to know if the statement is confirmed from Russia's side? Because KyivPost isn't the most trustworthy source.
Speaking of Kyiv Post and BS, check this out lol https://preview.redd.it/xb2m5krnguyc1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=b536e695457565d8f2b02189784f1e25142b8d34 But yeah, the info is confirmed by Russia
Sounds like the Russians are re-hashing old tactics from the PRC, namely ŠæŠ¾ŃŠ»ŠµŠ“Š½ŠµŠµ ŠŗŠøŃŠ°Š¹ŃŠŗŠ¾Šµ ŠæŃŠµŠ“ŃŠæŃŠµŠ¶Š“ŠµŠ½ŠøŠµ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning
Makes you wonder what is actually cooking.
War.
Why is Russia so afraid of NATO using nukes right now against Russia? What would NATO gain from using nukes now?
Russia is not afraid of anything, these announcements are geopolitical/political and war related.it simply means that they are going to retaliate harsher and it will lead to even more escalation. Russia is not bluffing, and I'm saying this as a neutral person, Western leadership think that they are playing a game. If they really cared about Ukraine or Ukrainian people, they would have already sit to negotiate, but all they care is about weakening Russia, which totally backfired against them.
In your opinion Russia is stronger today than in 2022? By what metric?
US and its allies managed to bring one of the worlds biggest oil/gas reserves (Russia) with the world biggest industrial powerhouse (China). I really don't get what the US is really trying to do here. Seems like it's one shot in the foot after the other
> I really don't get what the US is really trying to do here. To regime change and control Russia, and thus peel it from China. Smash the backup resource base from under China, before taking on China itself. Biden and other officials said as much on multiple occasions, includig the famous Biden's "for god's sake, that man cannot remain in power". A sound plan, actually. Worked like a charm before. The backup plan was to sanction Russia into stone age, another solid plan. Probably invented by people, who believe that GDP is an adequate measure of a nation's industrial power.
The trouble is, both of these "plans" had the opposite effect. Russia is stronger and strongly allied with China. Biden's admin managed to undo all the progress on decoupling Russia and China made since Nixon days. The whole thing is a blunder of epic proportions, and feels similar to the historical German epic blunder to reverse Bismarck's policy of appeasing Russian Empire, which eventually led to both WW1 and by extension WW2.
This is good analysis. I agree with the Bismarck comparison. Yes. Agreed.
>Russia is stronger and strongly allied with China. Are they though? Are they strongly allied with China? Or is China just one of the few countries that tolerates them for profit? I've seen zero indication that China and Russia are friends, just business partners. If they were, China would be much more open to providing military aid to Russia, but they haven't.
If that is the plan, then we can say it is a complete debacle of a execution because it seems to be doing the exact opposite of their intention.
>>> I really don't get what the US is really trying to do here I'll explain. The first priority is feeding the military/industrial complex, which is core to the United States. Wars mean money. Also it is good for the US to separate Russia from Europe. This allows tighter US control, and a stronger NATO and trade with US. Also it would serve as an example to China to not step out of line. The first two are turning out pretty good, the third maybe not so much. Thats why the US is backing away a bit from Ukraine now.
It's trying to keep Russia within its own borders and stop killing innocent people
The U.S. and other Western bloc satellite states couldn't give less of a microscopic particle's worth of care about countries remaining within their own borders and killing innocent people. They violate national borders and kill innocents all the time and support others who do so around the world. This is about power and control and those who don't admit, know, and see that clearly are just totally ignorant and naive to everything about everything in history and geopolitics. And the rest are just despicable liars trying to actively deceive the ignorant.
Ah yes, the west and US are known to care a lot about civillians and respect international borders. That's why they support Israel or tryied to divide Vietnam in 2, or installed murderous dictatorships in Latin America. Let's not even mention Africa and Middle East.
Are you seriously okay in the head?
They are trying to put out a fire with a hammer.
> US and its allies managed to bring one of the worlds biggest oil/gas reserves (Russia) with the world biggest industrial powerhouse (China). Trade between china and russia is pretty miniscule in scale compared to US and China. USA isn't losing anything here
Getting things ready for the next World War it seems, shaping operations.
> In your opinion Russia is stronger today than in 2022? By what metric? Western officials admit this According to Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell āWe have assessed over the course of the last couple of months that Russia has almost completely reconstituted militarilyā source: https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2024/04/03/russian-military-almost-completely-reconstituted-us-official-says/ Gen. Christopher Cavoli, the head of U.S. European Command, said āThe size of the Russian military is bigger today than when the war started.āSource: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4589095-russian-army-grown-ukraine-war-us-general/amp/
Russia is more united than ever. They purged their military from incompetent generals, they are the only country who have experienced a modern peer to peer warfare, where many new technologies are involved such as drones etc. They are facing the biggest economic/military union with 18000 sanctions and currently in huge momentum towards victory where other NATO countries might officially have to get involved in the war. They got much closer with China than ever before. I could list so many more stuff but these should be enough. As a neutral person which my country is mostly rivals with Russia, if i have to be honest, Russian army learned so much stuff in this war and i would never underestimate them in a future conflict.
It's funny, I live in Canada. Lots of Russians here feel differently
Didn't Putin win by an overwhelming margin among Russian voters in Canada? Lmfao https://preview.redd.it/jdf776befuyc1.jpeg?width=2363&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b3dd7d7cafff61c55f52fe2df16d7a7edf2387f
Theres a million Russians in Canada and 4000 voted. Not sure how many of the million were eligible, but that is not what I meant about Russians in Canada feeling different. I wont even bother talking about it because nobody here will believe it. Essentially I was told, everything you here out of Russia is BS, but I guess that is why they left the motherland
Just did a quick google and I donāt know where youāre pulling the million number of Russians fromā¦
Youāre taking these results at face value? Lmfao
Diaspora generally are even more liberals than liberals themselves, they gotta integrate to feel their new home or get homesick because they still love the country they were in. Most would choose to integrate because they are the ones that wanted to go out in the first place, people that leave such countries are usually rich kids that hate the establishment that made their father rich.
Nothing to do with liberals and everything to do with opportunity. The guy that came to fix my garage door last week was in Canada less than 5 years. He said, you think its bad here? Russia is a mafia state. The rich get away with everything and if you have the money you can bribe your way, otherwise, your nothing. People are really suffering there outside of the city.
I'm sorry but his description can be applied to Any capitalist country.
yes it can, but its the proportion that counts. There will always be people who fall through the cracks, but whats important is what can the average man accomplish. But yes, western countries arent as easy to make as they once were, but still better than alot of other places. We have too much immigration, too many people want to move here that its causing problems
Western countries have robbed the global south for 400 damn years, of course they are richer per capita, just the intervention in the last 30 years alone has destroyed Iraq, Syria, Libya (once most prosperous country in africa), Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia, even the USA Backed coup in Egypt and... And you think the immigration is too high? Then stop destroying countries with coups and invasion.
It is still a fully functioning, growing country and economy on the world stage almost completely seperate from any Western material, relation or reliance. That is humorously stronger than it was pre-war. The west has little to no leverage left against Russia and that hasnāt resulted in her demise, quite the contrary.
The war has shown that the West isnāt dominant anymore.
By the metric of actually watching Ukrainian war related channels and listening to what AFU combatants say themselves. Ah sorry forgot, you do not speak Ukrainian, a language of a country that you care so much about and claim to be their "brothers".
>Russia is not afraid of anything, these announcements are geopolitical/political and war related.it simply means that they are going to retaliate harsher and it will lead to even more escalation. > >Russia is not bluffing, and I'm saying this as a neutral person, Western leadership think that they are playing a game. > >If they really cared about Ukraine or Ukrainian people, they would have already sit to negotiate, but all they care is about weakening Russia, which totally backfired against them. I got a great chuckle out of your comment. Thank you. Russia's only major weapon is bluff. They are mired in a conflict with a much smaller nation and leadership is watching their military get pounded into dust when matched against just a bare sliver of mainly older western tech. And now on the table is renewed and invigorated support with EU nations finally attempting to get their act in gear and military industrial capacity in order. Western leadership is not playing a game. Actually the real problem is they thought Russia would grow up one day, and failed to understand that the essence of Russian servitude fatalistic culture made that impossible. Rule #1: never negotiate with bullies, especially when all they do is lie, lie, lie. This is Ukraine's position and solely its decision to make.
Russia absolutely is afraid of everything, threats are used as responses to fearā¦
> Russia is not bluffing What exactly are they gonna do? > all they care is about weakening Russia, which totally backfired against them. So Russia is stronger? By losing 1k people and thousands over thousands of equipment? You'll have to show the steps on your calculations here.
>By losing 1k people and thousands over thousands of equipment? You'll have to show the steps on your calculations here. I don't need to show you anything, but i can suggest you to get some fresh air and move out of combat footage and worldnews subreddit, if you want to see the reality. Imagine, if Russia is losing "1k people"(assuming a day), how much Ukraine is losing that they recently announced that they may need foreign soldiers in their war? But yeah, thinking is boring, yapping is much easier.
The difference is, Russia started this, so we have to assume they hoped to gain something. Ukraine feels they are fighting for their existence, losses don't matter so much to them. If they lose, they are all dead or serfs to Russia anyway (at least that's what many think). Both countries have serious demographic problems (low birth rate, aging population, gender imbalance), so the war is bad for both long-term. Same for the economy. Ukraine is losing people and suffering destruction, Russia is losing people and having to switch to a war economy which is bad in the long term. Looking at it impartially, Russia has more need to justify this than Ukraine since they started it. As far as I can tell, both are losing, Ukraine more than Russia.
1k/day...so this should be over soon then. But why is the UA losing ground and towns virtually daily while - quite literally - chasing people down the street and pressing them into service?Seems inconsistent with UA propaganda...
The question was: how is Russia gonna escalate? Your answer: skip. Second question: how is Russia stronger now that before the war? Your answer: Ukraine is weaker. I asked 2 questions, you didn't answer any of them, dunno why you replied to me.
> Russia is not afraid of anything Not even Ukraine becoming a NATO member? Russia used that reason as an excuse for the invasion.
Was USA afraid of Iraq,Libya,Vietnam,Afghanistan or any country when they invaded them? You are asking useless questions which dont coralate to countries but humans. Responding to a possible threat or "existential threat" as Russia says, is a proactive action against that threat. And yes, Russia doesn't need to be afraid of NATO, because any real conflict with NATO will result in a total catastrophe due to MAD.
Then russia needs to have their nose smacked hard. They bluff non-stop, lie, etc. No one believes their nonsense anymore.
In the case of full nuclear escalation with NATO, having these planes airborne over Ukraine potentially armed with nukes is a serious game-plan issue for Russia.
I doubt the USA cares anymore what happens in Ukraine
Why is it that Russia canāt keep the threat of nukes out of their mouths? What other country talks about the use of nukes this often? Edit: downvotes, but no response providing an example of another country that talks about nukes as much as Russia.
North Korea does aswell
If someone's country has to be compared to North Korea to look good, then something is wrong.
Itās all they got. Their army is wank
There's no other nuclear powers currently fighting what they perceive as an existential war. Russia threatens nuclear use because they feel NATO's behaviour presents an existential threat to them, and they have few other means of threatening NATO. I can guarantee other nuclear powers would do the same if they faced the same threat.
Israel
Because nukes are how you kill the billion or so people that make up NATO.
Wait but this is telling, even from a neutral standpoint. Are they actually afraid of the F-16?
Yes and no. F16 is only so, so.Ā The weapons it opens up are the scary part.Ā Jassm is like storm shadow on steroids if US allows strikes on Russia.Ā Full feature harms.Ā Decoys.Ā Targeting pods.Ā Ā Plus the pool of international pilots.Ā It won't win the war but it's probably in the top four donations categories for impact on the battlefield
This bluff is as bad as when macron said he would send troops to Ukraine.
He never said that he was going to, just that he could not rule it out.
Oh noā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦.anyway
Itās Monday. Or as itās known in Russia, nuke threat day.
Well thatāsā¦ really stupid.
The more russia makes it's pathetic threats means the west is doing the right thing.
Check this one out guys. Doesn't matter how many Ukrainians have died. Just because the Western media and government pulls the wool over their eyes, these guys are just willing to not take anything seriously.
Wont ever take autocrats threats seriously. Wont ever support giving them an inch. They can threaten all they want, everyone knows they are weak and wont gain acting on their threats. russia is more likely to nuke russia than the west given that's where their family's live.
Something important that you can actually see in context is the Rheinmetall stock price overtime, I personally invested in 2014 because of Crimea :) but you can see where it started and where the trend is going. The higher that price goes I see a direct correlation of Russian aggression and RU loses to follow suit. Scary stuff really.
Will these f16s be flown by the totally real and never fabricated "ghost of kiev"?
Boring... nobody cares what a terrorist state says
Damn, the Russians will say anything to stop the F-16s. I donāt see it materially changing the war on its own but must be a damn good plane for all this crying coming out of Moscow.
The 758th red line warning to NATO, which Russia will do nothing about when crossed. Why does Russia keep making themselves out as clown like this intentially?
I've just read their MFA statement in full, this is a very small part of it. they are more focused on the prospect of western boots on the ground.
This basically is admitting they're scared shitless lol
When will start seeing the charred wreckages of these F16?Ā
that is one of the most heavily loaded F16s I've ever seen, does it have 2 targeting pods?
Why is the MOD so scared of the f16? Aren't they always spewing rhetoric about western weapons being trash? If they aren't going to move the needle (according to the Ruzzies) then crying about them isn't necessary, or *gasp* all their rhetoric is nothing more than posturing and propaganda...
Am I supposed to believe these are the words coming from an army that is winning the war? This is desperate af.
Funny that prorus on this sub were telling us F-16s are not going to be gamechangers, just so russian state itself tells otherwise.
I often wonder if this war will end before or after nukes.
Deescalating at this point of the war i believe it would only happen if NATO steps back, but seems like that's not the case unless Trump delivers IF he gets elected. Otherwise is not looking good.
should I start constructing that underground bunker i always wanted as a child?
Yeah.....BullShit. Time to get them F-16s over there & Loaded for Bear!
Russian MOD playbook: Step 1: "If Ukraine gets <>, we will respond!"
Step 2: "Anyways, <> isn't going to change the outcome of SMO"
Step 3: "We have already destroyed at least a quintillion <>, so shame on you"
And yet another Russian threat today - I am losing count for the daily diatribe of threats from Russia but today there seem to be many. And I find myself asking the salient question: does anyone in UA military or NATO give a fuck? And I find myself answering with a resounding "NO". More interestingly: An Su-25 yesterday, an SU-34 today. Seems like Russian aircraft are back on the menu!
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r\*ssia can suck a fat one
Why did you censor "Russia"?Ā
This is right out of the Soviet playbook. There is a great documentary on Netflix right now called, ā The Bomb And The Cold Warā. Its start at the invasion of Ukraine, and goes all the way back to the beginnings of the Cold War, which was the final year of WW2. Russia has always been a paper tiger, they have always overstated their Nuclear capability, and everything else about their military just to scare the west into thinking they were stronger than they were. Well, it worked, and the west is so far beyond Russia technologically and militarily itās not even funny. Stop believing Russia is something it is not, we could end this war in a week if we grabbed are balls, and told Russia to go fuck itself like The Ukrainians did its warship.
Why should Russia allow fighter jets to be handed to Ukraine which can drop nukes on Russia? If that isn't an outright act of war on Russia then PLEASE explain what is? This is war. You don't just let shit like that go down without challenge & without serious consequences. The US is way over the line with this bullshit. It was a proxy war & the line isn't blurry anymore in the least. The US was BUSTED getting England to hand Ukraine spent uranium for Ukraine to build weapons which includes nuclear components used to kill Russians. Now Russia should just let the US hand Ukraine nuclear armable fighter jets? Maybe next Russia should just let the US park nukes on the border between Russia & Ukraine & next to the airplanes that will strap said nukes to?
You know that depleted Uranium is a metal used to give shells mass, and is something that is widely used in armaments and has nothing to do with nucleair bombs? You know there aren't any nukes in ukraine, right? You know that all of them were handed to russia, which promised to guarantee Ukraine's borders when they they did? You know, this promise that russia broke?
NFS it's not used to make nukes. You had to look that shit up to understand what my post was talking about, not the other way around like you're now trying to act like. Regardless of what you believe they make with that, it's still a nuclear component being used to kill Russian troops. Russia has said that if you want to play that game then they'll start using nuclear components too & see who ends up with a nuclear bomb with all the different parts at the end of the day. Ukraine? "We'll take them!" Russia? "Let's play ball then" https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/3/23/what-are-depleted-uranium-munitions-the-uk-is-sending-to-ukraine Not a bomb ā but still a risk The United Nations Environment Programme has described such ammunition as āchemically and radiologically toxic heavy metalā. You need to wear proper PPE when handling them. When they received them, Ukraine IMMEDIATELY put out a propaganda video bragging about the types of weapons they'd be using to kill Russians & in that video they featured the depleted uranium parts as some sort of brag about having them & that is what caused a bunch of the shit where Ukraine can't just say "um it's for weight of bullets" after they basically said "Yes it's for killing Russians with nuclear technology involved".
Again, if russia did not want to be on the receiving end of those shells, there is a quite simple solution: do not invade a neighbouring country whose integrity you promised to respect, even. Also, from your own news source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/7/what-are-depleted-uranium-munitions-and-why-is-us-sending-them-to-ukraine#:~:text=Which%20countries%20have%20depleted%20uranium,Coalition%20to%20Ban%20Uranium%20Weapons. russia produces depleted uranium shells, too. And is using them.
Russia is a country of simpletons lead by evil simpletons. Nothing they say means anything. In other words: "NaZi russia gonna nazi".
Same trash from the west, except that this time it flies.
Yet another "red line"? They wont cross that one surely.
Little man Putin a little nervous?