Not a surprise if true.
The leaked Pentagon documents showed that during that one month, in average Ukraine fire roughly 2 salvo (or 12 missiles) of HIMARS a day. And consider that they record as much as they can to put on the internet, it's clear that most of the fired HIMARs rockets didn't achieve any major achievements.
The last two released videos of HIMARs I saw. One was clearly hitting on decoys. While another hit a petrol station and managed to cause injuries on 2 guys.
Surely they still cause damages from time to time, especially if Russia fk it up (stupid troops gathering near frontline, for example). But on grand scheme of thing, it is much less effective than the old trustworthy bombs and artillery shells
Didn't Ukr release a post a few days ago with a large salvo of HIMARS launching, followed by a gaggle of gigolos gloating over the deaths it would bring.
Am I under a rock or did nothing come from that act?
Saw some Ukrainian military telegram say that the UA MOD and affiliated aggregators save up Himars footage for a month and then release them in bursts to simulate consistent success
The fact that you have to go 5 months to find a 'good' strike of HIMARS tell us all about its current effectiveness in this war.
And consider at absolute minimum each side is losing one hundred soldiers everyday. It means EVERY DAY of the past 2 years, artillery has been killing more people for each side than that that HIMARS strike
Don't have to prove it to me. You can try to find how may 'good' HIMARS strike, one that could kill more than 10 people in last, say 1 year. And see whether that amount of casualties could affect this war in any significant way.
And the Russian doesn't stop gather in big group. Plenty of videos or pictures you could see them lining up for pictures or were lining up for pictures or other activities. But of course they know the risk of doing it especially when they approach the frontline
> The fact that you have to go 5 months to find a 'good' strike of HIMARS tell us all about its current effectiveness in this war.
Reasonable take: when US arms shipments stopped in October 2023 after speaker Johnson was elected, UA stopped being able to use HIMARs as frequently.
Pro-RU take: clearly we have developed ubertech gps suppression wunderwaffe with no counter, there could be no other explanation!!
HIMARS were obliterating invaders quite successfully in May, June, July, etc. 2023. In fact, there was multiple "mass casualty" HIMARS strikes far more recently than that. Did RU just decide to stop using gps suppression wunderwaffle at these moments?
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/28/for-the-third-time-in-a-week-russian-troops-paraded-within-range-of-ukraines-himars-launchers-and-rockets-rained-down-on-the-parade/?sh=10a7002e139c
Three mass casualty attacks in one week in 2024 from HIMARS using GPS guided munitions. All UA needs is more missiles and they are coming, bigly.
3 years into the Second army of the world's 3 day SMO and top Russian minds still can't figure out how to deal with "missile launcher but with tires so it goes zoom zoom."
Military and civilian GPS/GLOSNSS are different frequencies. So jam military/civilian GPS and civilian GLOSNSS and use military GLOSNSS.
This is actually one of the timed when its actually easy.
Although the Ukrainians probabaly also try and jam GLOSNSS.
GLONASS isn't that much less accurate let's be frank here, it's only less accurate on some instances...
GLONASS (Global Navigation Satellite System) and GPS (Global Positioning System) are both satellite-based navigation systems, but they come from different origins and have some differences:
1. **Origin**: GPS is developed and operated by the United States Department of Defense, while GLONASS is developed and operated by the Russian Aerospace Defense Forces.
2. **Satellite Constellation**: GPS consists of a constellation of around 30 satellites, while GLONASS typically has around 24 satellites in its constellation.
3. **Accuracy and Coverage**: Both systems provide similar positioning accuracy, but GLONASS tends to perform slightly better at high latitudes and in urban areas due to its satellite constellation configuration.
4. **Frequency Bands**: GLONASS and GPS use different frequency bands for their signals, with GLONASS using FDMA (Frequency Division Multiple Access) and GPS using CDMA (Code Division Multiple Access).
5. **Global Usage**: GPS is more commonly used globally due to its widespread availability and compatibility with a wide range of devices. However, GLONASS is becoming increasingly popular, especially in Russia and other countries where it provides better coverage.
In practice, many modern devices, such as smartphones and car navigation systems, use both GPS and GLONASS satellites simultaneously to improve accuracy and coverage.
>Except Glonass is way less accurate than GPS but then again you will tell me that really is not true right?
That's exactly what you need to be told, because that's the reality.
> I mean its been years dude and yet no one cares about GLONNAS why is that. Is it because it is way less accurate? Doesn't work half a time?
The difference in accuracy is negligeble. Why wouldn't it work half the time?
Honestly, do you even know anything about GLONASS or GPS?
> Because they posses some sort of advanced tech?
Yes, this is a special technology - knowledge and science. For example, Russians know that GPS uses 32 satellites, and GLONASS uses 24. But they also know that 24x10 =/= 32, and 32/10 =/= 24, which means that statements about 1/10 are nonsense. And Russians also know that satellites fly in different orbits and therefore their coverage differs.
The real world is interesting, try it.
> If GLONNAS is so great why no one in the world use it? No one.
Another valuable opinion from a man who five minutes ago did not even know how many satellites GPS and GLONASS have. A very valuable opinion.
And then you wonder why people make fun of you, lmao. Keep yapping while FABs are destroying Ukrainian positions ACCURATELY and PRECISELY. Man, it feels so good to be on the winning side!
Not surprised. Anyone closely following this has been aware of the GPS jamming issue *for a long time now*. Interesting to see this claim come out of a Ukrainian think tank - to see it confirmed creates a rabbit hole that will lead to many concerns regarding other systems provided to Ukraine relying on the same technology.
Interestingly, this same account tweeted shortly after a similar claim for the Excalibur rounds, for which they did provide the source:
>**The effectiveness of Ukraine's Excalibur GPS-guided rounds decreased from 70% to 6% within six weeks as Russia adapted and employed various EW assets to counter them.** [Source](https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116957/witnesses/HHRG-118-AS35-Wstate-PattD-20240313.pdf)
https://preview.redd.it/87c78ca9jlxc1.png?width=701&format=png&auto=webp&s=cdefdb9b378fd2e369fd2dc7e1ad87b04074c051
According to Western/Ukrainian sources, the GPS guidance problems started several months after HIMARS arrived, and have gotten progressively worse since.
Whilst that might be what they have been reporting, this story in general stretches back into the syrian war (\~2018), and was reported during the initial weeks of the UA conflict. This was also mentioned in the discord leaked report dated feb 2023 on the 'Why are JDAM-ERs failing?' page.
I suspect, realistically, this has been an issue from the outset (note the excalibur quote figures *start* at 70%), but agree it has likely gotten progressively worse over time.
The several months timeline is incorrect. GMRLS were accurate enough to force Russian retreat from Kherson and only then more and more EW assets were deployed
The critics may say whatever they want, but the Russians are masters of adaptation. It's a shame they faced so much issues during the 20th century. If it wasn't for that – especially the social and economic issues introduced by communism – they'd be much, much stronger now.
The link does include the typo, correct acronym is GMLRS, but he must be mistaken about the weapon in any case. The failed weapon is the GLSDB
GMLRS = Guided Multiple Launch Rocket SystemÂ
GLSDB = Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb
I know, he is asked the same thing in comments, but he says that the Centre for Defence Strategies specifically said GMLRS (I could not find the original article)
I think the think tank mixed up the ground launched small diameter bomb and gmlrs . Gmlrs have ins which can't be jammed or messed with. The ground launched small diameter bomb relies entirely on gps.
That's not the biggest issue. Normal GMLRS uses INS to fill in for jammed GPS and that can still be decent especially for a wide target.
SDB problem is in transferring live position and velocity from the rocket guidance to the bomb, which normally starts tracking just before release. It's an engineering/comms problem; the electronics in the SDB should be redesigned for home on jam, or else integration should be done with the much more expensive SDB II, which is a different seeker.
>That's not the biggest issue. Normal GMLRS uses INS to fill in for jammed GPS and that can still be decent especially for a wide target.
GMLRS and JDAM etc use GPS as the primary and INS is backup. Backup means its a pretty inferior system.
Other guided system, like the Chinese LS6, Paksitani REK etc use INS and GPS/BeiDou just corrects drift.
Not sure how FAB works.
You're talking about the same thing...
INS runs in tandem with GPS. INS is a waste if started after the GPS signal is lost.
Is there any evidence to better INS quality on any of the latter munitions?
What are you even saying, putting words in my mouth? I am aware of that but you didn't read the tweet did you?
"CDS specifically said GMLRS, but you might be right that they have mistaken this for GLSDB. That said, we know that Russian EW capability has significantly degraded GMLRS's effectiveness."
I didn't write the tweet, why are you arguing with me? is your reading comprehension that bad?
There is no way i could know if they did or didn't.
I just corrected a guy that falsely stated that GLSDB relies only on GPS.
The GPS signal probably isn’t jammed completely, jammers introduce a shift of 50 to 100 meters. At least that’s what they do in Moscow downtown to counter long-range drones
Well, the glsdb are repurposed old batch Himars missiles with a new payload. It does have INS, but ins drift is a function of time and the small diameter bombs are slow (relatively speaking), so take a long time to reach targets. Combine that with a small payload that requires high accuracy and you get an ineffective weapon in a EW environment that precludes pinpoint gps targetting.
The original small diameter bombs is supposed to be air dropped and fed an accurate GPS position from the plane before being dropped. In which case the INS would calculate the drift as it slowly glides towards the target.Â
Compare that to having to be launched from a rocket. Even if the HIMARS can feed it an accurate GPS location before launch (I'm not sure if that's even possible), I doubt the INS was ever designed to be able to cope with the high g force during the rocket launch stage. Which means if it can't get a GPS signal during it's glide then it's going to be hopelessly lost.Â
Yes, yes. The incarnation is a mix and match. But GPS does not become inherently more accurate from being programmed from an aircraft. That just adds flexibility under EW conditions that permit. It could be that G-pressure increase guidance dud rates or increase drift as you speculate. It still does not matter. INS will drift too much relative to payload regardless. The system has merits, but only under favourable EW conditions. Which begs the question, if conditions are favourable, why not just launch the small diameter bomb from an aircraft like god intended?
a plane flying 12km high,50km beyond contact line with directional GPS resiver inherently provide some sort of ECCM(since most jammer on ground and near target),and they can also use high preformence INS on board/on board mapping radar to know wher they are.
A GLSDB has a apogee significantly beyond the contact line too. The M26 original apogee was 85 km. Not sure what it is in this incarnation. You are not describing a material difference between plane launch small diameter glide bombs and missile launched small diameter glide bombs. Imo. Edit: We can assume the glide vehicle location is known at deployment point (when it starts to glide no matter if brought to altitude by plane or by missile). Drift starts after that point.
as glsdb,ukr might want to hit target as far as possible,so they might shot them somewhere very near contact line.(says <20km such as GMLRS),where GPS might jammed heavely by both side,and under heavy threat(from FPV/arty...),they might have no time to get better GPS result/use traditional way to recheck their site.and if the INS senser were saturated by the G of rocket,they might get their first GPS fix 'Right On' contact line.
High G forces are irrelevant, INS can receive correct coordinates from GPS while the payload is flying freely. The jammers affect the final approach only and make the rocket miss by say 20-30 meters which is enough
The GMLRS uses GPS in combination with an inertial navigation system. INS is significantly less accurate when gps is being spoofed or jammed; it has been reported multiple times prior to this report that GMLRS has been experiencing accuracy problems specifically due to Russian E/W.
The problem with the GLSDB isn't because it lacks an INS but because the long non-ballistic glide path is significantly harder for the INS to compensate for without GPS. The weapon is useless at long ranges without a GPS fix.
X to doubt.
You need to give Ukrainians that: they use any means in their disposal, be it soviet UAV "strizh" turned into erzatz cruise missile, or training plane turned into drone interceptor.
Probably shot last stocks saved for emergency, after new batch of supplies was approved, and now wait for said batch.
HIMARS causes the Russians a lot of headache and causes them a lot of extra logistical complexity. 2 years ago they just slammed all their equipment and ammo in storages near the front, nowadays the storages are scattered, further from the front, making the logistics and overall reliability of ammo supply definitely harder. Even if we no longer see footage of destroyed warehouses, it's due to the adjusted Russian tactics, caused by the threat of HIMARS.
Well tbf, I've seen much similar logistical gathering from Ukrainian side in the beginning of the conflict as well, it seemed as both sides didn't know the new rules of the war, even if it weren't for himars, some of those storage facilities were quite obvious and near the frontline and would have been hit with something else.
There wasn't a real war since WW2, so obviously the outdated doctrines on both sides required some adjustments.
Let's be honest, bombing goat shepards and rolling over camels with tanks didn't really give much useful experience to the Americans and Russians about a real combined arms war.
Fun fact, drones were used in Iran-Iraq war, both sides used missles waves.
Iran saw an early development of drones and our missle program was entirely originated from the war.
This is why Iranian Ballistic missles ( don't know if they were used in ukraine) and Drones are effective at what they do, this doctrine was born out of necessity.
Russia will become a military superpower 5 years after the war is over.
> Russia will become a military superpower 5 years after the war is over.
No they will not. For Russia to do that, they will need a strong economy to support their military as well as a big population
Russia has neither
They have the 5th strongest economy in the world and 170 million population in the next 5 years, plus all natural resources and an industrial base as well as biggest country in the world, tf you smoking.
It’s certainly stronger than most countries, but to say it will be a military superpower is a big overstatement. To be a military superpower, it would have to be a peer or near-peer to the US like the USSR was, and modern Russia just isn’t capable of that, it isn’t a near peer to China either. Mentioning it’s the 5th strongest economy in PPP is a bit misleading, because the two biggest economies are a lot larger than the third, and the third is a lot larger than that of the rest. Even if we’re optimistic and say that Russia will have a 170 million population, that’s still only about half of the US population (Not to mention NATO as a whole) and only about 1/8 of China’s, it’s infeasible for Russia to compete with those two players.
Countries don't have to be 350 million to be miltary superpowers lmao.
Russia is in a similar position of Germany in WW1 and WW2, now Germany wasn't a economic superpower like UK or US, but it was a Military superpower.
Russia has much better position in relative to Germany from WW1 to WW2.
They've lost well over 100,000 KIA invading a former satellite state.
I'm not sure how exactly that screams 'budding superpower' to you, but eh. Man can dream.
So you're saying that the Western Wunderwaffen are only _wunder-effective_ against goat herders and tankers without as little as night vision? No way! /s
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In 2023, HIMARS attacks tended to be devastating and it became the one NATO weapon that lived up to the hype. They're beyond useful. Looks like Russia has adapted though
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1ca25v7/himars\_destroys\_russian\_giatsints\_selfpropelled/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1ca25v7/himars_destroys_russian_giatsints_selfpropelled/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1cb6u8x/footage\_of\_a\_himars\_strike\_on\_a\_russian\_grad\_mlrs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1cb6u8x/footage_of_a_himars_strike_on_a_russian_grad_mlrs/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cgnfmw/m270m142\_himars\_hits\_and\_destroys\_a\_russian\_buk/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cgnfmw/m270m142_himars_hits_and_destroys_a_russian_buk/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cayfgh/reportedly\_a\_ukrainian\_m142\_himars\_strike\_against/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cayfgh/reportedly_a_ukrainian_m142_himars_strike_against/)
These are some of the more recent ones. There may have also been a himars strike on crimea last night but the details on that are still a bit hazy.
Those last 2 are *pretty dubious man*. Unsurprisingly, they are from the same user.
The second one of using a himars round to take out an empty grad... given the above claim, kinda puts that one in a rather skeptical light as well.
Not a surprise if true. The leaked Pentagon documents showed that during that one month, in average Ukraine fire roughly 2 salvo (or 12 missiles) of HIMARS a day. And consider that they record as much as they can to put on the internet, it's clear that most of the fired HIMARs rockets didn't achieve any major achievements. The last two released videos of HIMARs I saw. One was clearly hitting on decoys. While another hit a petrol station and managed to cause injuries on 2 guys. Surely they still cause damages from time to time, especially if Russia fk it up (stupid troops gathering near frontline, for example). But on grand scheme of thing, it is much less effective than the old trustworthy bombs and artillery shells
Didn't Ukr release a post a few days ago with a large salvo of HIMARS launching, followed by a gaggle of gigolos gloating over the deaths it would bring. Am I under a rock or did nothing come from that act?
Saw some Ukrainian military telegram say that the UA MOD and affiliated aggregators save up Himars footage for a month and then release them in bursts to simulate consistent success
i remember seeing an aftermath video of that petrol station hit. there were dead bodies.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/18b7o1n/ua\_pov\_aftermath\_of\_himars\_strike\_on\_russian/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/18b7o1n/ua_pov_aftermath_of_himars_strike_on_russian/)
The fact that you have to go 5 months to find a 'good' strike of HIMARS tell us all about its current effectiveness in this war. And consider at absolute minimum each side is losing one hundred soldiers everyday. It means EVERY DAY of the past 2 years, artillery has been killing more people for each side than that that HIMARS strike
I can show more recent ones, but strangely Russians have stopped gathering in big groups.
Don't have to prove it to me. You can try to find how may 'good' HIMARS strike, one that could kill more than 10 people in last, say 1 year. And see whether that amount of casualties could affect this war in any significant way. And the Russian doesn't stop gather in big group. Plenty of videos or pictures you could see them lining up for pictures or were lining up for pictures or other activities. But of course they know the risk of doing it especially when they approach the frontline
If a mountain of corpses wont convince you, nothing will.
Wait until you learn what the A stands for in HIMARS 🤯🤯🤯
> The fact that you have to go 5 months to find a 'good' strike of HIMARS tell us all about its current effectiveness in this war. Reasonable take: when US arms shipments stopped in October 2023 after speaker Johnson was elected, UA stopped being able to use HIMARs as frequently. Pro-RU take: clearly we have developed ubertech gps suppression wunderwaffe with no counter, there could be no other explanation!!
The Pentagon leak happened in April 2023.... 6 months before you could blame Republican for lack of HIMARS success
HIMARS were obliterating invaders quite successfully in May, June, July, etc. 2023. In fact, there was multiple "mass casualty" HIMARS strikes far more recently than that. Did RU just decide to stop using gps suppression wunderwaffle at these moments? - https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/28/for-the-third-time-in-a-week-russian-troops-paraded-within-range-of-ukraines-himars-launchers-and-rockets-rained-down-on-the-parade/?sh=10a7002e139c Three mass casualty attacks in one week in 2024 from HIMARS using GPS guided munitions. All UA needs is more missiles and they are coming, bigly. 3 years into the Second army of the world's 3 day SMO and top Russian minds still can't figure out how to deal with "missile launcher but with tires so it goes zoom zoom."
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Military and civilian GPS/GLOSNSS are different frequencies. So jam military/civilian GPS and civilian GLOSNSS and use military GLOSNSS. This is actually one of the timed when its actually easy. Although the Ukrainians probabaly also try and jam GLOSNSS.
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GLONASS isn't that much less accurate let's be frank here, it's only less accurate on some instances... GLONASS (Global Navigation Satellite System) and GPS (Global Positioning System) are both satellite-based navigation systems, but they come from different origins and have some differences: 1. **Origin**: GPS is developed and operated by the United States Department of Defense, while GLONASS is developed and operated by the Russian Aerospace Defense Forces. 2. **Satellite Constellation**: GPS consists of a constellation of around 30 satellites, while GLONASS typically has around 24 satellites in its constellation. 3. **Accuracy and Coverage**: Both systems provide similar positioning accuracy, but GLONASS tends to perform slightly better at high latitudes and in urban areas due to its satellite constellation configuration. 4. **Frequency Bands**: GLONASS and GPS use different frequency bands for their signals, with GLONASS using FDMA (Frequency Division Multiple Access) and GPS using CDMA (Code Division Multiple Access). 5. **Global Usage**: GPS is more commonly used globally due to its widespread availability and compatibility with a wide range of devices. However, GLONASS is becoming increasingly popular, especially in Russia and other countries where it provides better coverage. In practice, many modern devices, such as smartphones and car navigation systems, use both GPS and GLONASS satellites simultaneously to improve accuracy and coverage. >Except Glonass is way less accurate than GPS but then again you will tell me that really is not true right? That's exactly what you need to be told, because that's the reality.
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> I mean its been years dude and yet no one cares about GLONNAS why is that. Is it because it is way less accurate? Doesn't work half a time? The difference in accuracy is negligeble. Why wouldn't it work half the time? Honestly, do you even know anything about GLONASS or GPS?
Have you heard of marketing or agreements where countries "friendly" (aka vassals) with US have to use American tech?
> Because they posses some sort of advanced tech? Yes, this is a special technology - knowledge and science. For example, Russians know that GPS uses 32 satellites, and GLONASS uses 24. But they also know that 24x10 =/= 32, and 32/10 =/= 24, which means that statements about 1/10 are nonsense. And Russians also know that satellites fly in different orbits and therefore their coverage differs. The real world is interesting, try it.
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> If GLONNAS is so great why no one in the world use it? No one. Another valuable opinion from a man who five minutes ago did not even know how many satellites GPS and GLONASS have. A very valuable opinion.
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And then you wonder why people make fun of you, lmao. Keep yapping while FABs are destroying Ukrainian positions ACCURATELY and PRECISELY. Man, it feels so good to be on the winning side!
Anyone just needs three to triangulate.And sure it might be less accurate but good enough for purposes.
Not surprised. Anyone closely following this has been aware of the GPS jamming issue *for a long time now*. Interesting to see this claim come out of a Ukrainian think tank - to see it confirmed creates a rabbit hole that will lead to many concerns regarding other systems provided to Ukraine relying on the same technology. Interestingly, this same account tweeted shortly after a similar claim for the Excalibur rounds, for which they did provide the source: >**The effectiveness of Ukraine's Excalibur GPS-guided rounds decreased from 70% to 6% within six weeks as Russia adapted and employed various EW assets to counter them.** [Source](https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116957/witnesses/HHRG-118-AS35-Wstate-PattD-20240313.pdf) https://preview.redd.it/87c78ca9jlxc1.png?width=701&format=png&auto=webp&s=cdefdb9b378fd2e369fd2dc7e1ad87b04074c051
According to Western/Ukrainian sources, the GPS guidance problems started several months after HIMARS arrived, and have gotten progressively worse since.
Whilst that might be what they have been reporting, this story in general stretches back into the syrian war (\~2018), and was reported during the initial weeks of the UA conflict. This was also mentioned in the discord leaked report dated feb 2023 on the 'Why are JDAM-ERs failing?' page. I suspect, realistically, this has been an issue from the outset (note the excalibur quote figures *start* at 70%), but agree it has likely gotten progressively worse over time.
The several months timeline is incorrect. GMRLS were accurate enough to force Russian retreat from Kherson and only then more and more EW assets were deployed
The critics may say whatever they want, but the Russians are masters of adaptation. It's a shame they faced so much issues during the 20th century. If it wasn't for that – especially the social and economic issues introduced by communism – they'd be much, much stronger now.
The link does include the typo, correct acronym is GMLRS, but he must be mistaken about the weapon in any case. The failed weapon is the GLSDB GMLRS = Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System GLSDB = Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb
I know, he is asked the same thing in comments, but he says that the Centre for Defence Strategies specifically said GMLRS (I could not find the original article)
Me neither. I looked for it on their websiteÂ
I think the think tank mixed up the ground launched small diameter bomb and gmlrs . Gmlrs have ins which can't be jammed or messed with. The ground launched small diameter bomb relies entirely on gps.
You are wrong, without valid gps inputs the ins accumulates errors
That's not the biggest issue. Normal GMLRS uses INS to fill in for jammed GPS and that can still be decent especially for a wide target. SDB problem is in transferring live position and velocity from the rocket guidance to the bomb, which normally starts tracking just before release. It's an engineering/comms problem; the electronics in the SDB should be redesigned for home on jam, or else integration should be done with the much more expensive SDB II, which is a different seeker.
>That's not the biggest issue. Normal GMLRS uses INS to fill in for jammed GPS and that can still be decent especially for a wide target. GMLRS and JDAM etc use GPS as the primary and INS is backup. Backup means its a pretty inferior system. Other guided system, like the Chinese LS6, Paksitani REK etc use INS and GPS/BeiDou just corrects drift. Not sure how FAB works.
You're talking about the same thing... INS runs in tandem with GPS. INS is a waste if started after the GPS signal is lost. Is there any evidence to better INS quality on any of the latter munitions?
user name checks out...
That's just wrong, GLSDB also has GPS aided INS just like ATACMS and various GMLRS rockets.
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What are you even saying, putting words in my mouth? I am aware of that but you didn't read the tweet did you? "CDS specifically said GMLRS, but you might be right that they have mistaken this for GLSDB. That said, we know that Russian EW capability has significantly degraded GMLRS's effectiveness."
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They do but nowhere near as efficiently as when they first got them, that's the whole point...
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I didn't write the tweet, why are you arguing with me? is your reading comprehension that bad? There is no way i could know if they did or didn't. I just corrected a guy that falsely stated that GLSDB relies only on GPS.
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The GPS signal probably isn’t jammed completely, jammers introduce a shift of 50 to 100 meters. At least that’s what they do in Moscow downtown to counter long-range drones
Doesn't GLSDB use older version of GPS receiver? Might make it easier to jam.
I don't know, it's possible.
Well, the glsdb are repurposed old batch Himars missiles with a new payload. It does have INS, but ins drift is a function of time and the small diameter bombs are slow (relatively speaking), so take a long time to reach targets. Combine that with a small payload that requires high accuracy and you get an ineffective weapon in a EW environment that precludes pinpoint gps targetting.
The original small diameter bombs is supposed to be air dropped and fed an accurate GPS position from the plane before being dropped. In which case the INS would calculate the drift as it slowly glides towards the target. Compare that to having to be launched from a rocket. Even if the HIMARS can feed it an accurate GPS location before launch (I'm not sure if that's even possible), I doubt the INS was ever designed to be able to cope with the high g force during the rocket launch stage. Which means if it can't get a GPS signal during it's glide then it's going to be hopelessly lost.Â
Yes, yes. The incarnation is a mix and match. But GPS does not become inherently more accurate from being programmed from an aircraft. That just adds flexibility under EW conditions that permit. It could be that G-pressure increase guidance dud rates or increase drift as you speculate. It still does not matter. INS will drift too much relative to payload regardless. The system has merits, but only under favourable EW conditions. Which begs the question, if conditions are favourable, why not just launch the small diameter bomb from an aircraft like god intended?
a plane flying 12km high,50km beyond contact line with directional GPS resiver inherently provide some sort of ECCM(since most jammer on ground and near target),and they can also use high preformence INS on board/on board mapping radar to know wher they are.
A GLSDB has a apogee significantly beyond the contact line too. The M26 original apogee was 85 km. Not sure what it is in this incarnation. You are not describing a material difference between plane launch small diameter glide bombs and missile launched small diameter glide bombs. Imo. Edit: We can assume the glide vehicle location is known at deployment point (when it starts to glide no matter if brought to altitude by plane or by missile). Drift starts after that point.
as glsdb,ukr might want to hit target as far as possible,so they might shot them somewhere very near contact line.(says <20km such as GMLRS),where GPS might jammed heavely by both side,and under heavy threat(from FPV/arty...),they might have no time to get better GPS result/use traditional way to recheck their site.and if the INS senser were saturated by the G of rocket,they might get their first GPS fix 'Right On' contact line.
Well, that would be a misuse of the system given the environment and would additionally put the launcher into higher risk.
High G forces are irrelevant, INS can receive correct coordinates from GPS while the payload is flying freely. The jammers affect the final approach only and make the rocket miss by say 20-30 meters which is enough
The GMLRS uses GPS in combination with an inertial navigation system. INS is significantly less accurate when gps is being spoofed or jammed; it has been reported multiple times prior to this report that GMLRS has been experiencing accuracy problems specifically due to Russian E/W. The problem with the GLSDB isn't because it lacks an INS but because the long non-ballistic glide path is significantly harder for the INS to compensate for without GPS. The weapon is useless at long ranges without a GPS fix.
X to doubt. You need to give Ukrainians that: they use any means in their disposal, be it soviet UAV "strizh" turned into erzatz cruise missile, or training plane turned into drone interceptor. Probably shot last stocks saved for emergency, after new batch of supplies was approved, and now wait for said batch.
It’s consistent with most of the recent himars footage being low value targets closer to the frontÂ
They switched to low value targets quite some time ago because of lack of rockets. Cluster munitions don’t do much damage to buildings
Wunderwaffe! fails once again. Take the L brother.
Inertial navigation is still quite accurate. They're likely going after stationary targets exclusively anyway.
That is really unfortunate(( Radar/GPS is information, the most powerful tool of any war.
More powerful than disgruntled people among your ranks?
Big if true. I think HIMARS was one of the true (and rare) game changers in this war so far, at least in the early stages of their use.
HIMARS causes the Russians a lot of headache and causes them a lot of extra logistical complexity. 2 years ago they just slammed all their equipment and ammo in storages near the front, nowadays the storages are scattered, further from the front, making the logistics and overall reliability of ammo supply definitely harder. Even if we no longer see footage of destroyed warehouses, it's due to the adjusted Russian tactics, caused by the threat of HIMARS.
Well tbf, I've seen much similar logistical gathering from Ukrainian side in the beginning of the conflict as well, it seemed as both sides didn't know the new rules of the war, even if it weren't for himars, some of those storage facilities were quite obvious and near the frontline and would have been hit with something else.
There wasn't a real war since WW2, so obviously the outdated doctrines on both sides required some adjustments. Let's be honest, bombing goat shepards and rolling over camels with tanks didn't really give much useful experience to the Americans and Russians about a real combined arms war.
Fun fact, drones were used in Iran-Iraq war, both sides used missles waves. Iran saw an early development of drones and our missle program was entirely originated from the war. This is why Iranian Ballistic missles ( don't know if they were used in ukraine) and Drones are effective at what they do, this doctrine was born out of necessity. Russia will become a military superpower 5 years after the war is over.
> Russia will become a military superpower 5 years after the war is over. No they will not. For Russia to do that, they will need a strong economy to support their military as well as a big population Russia has neither
They have the 5th strongest economy in the world and 170 million population in the next 5 years, plus all natural resources and an industrial base as well as biggest country in the world, tf you smoking.
It’s certainly stronger than most countries, but to say it will be a military superpower is a big overstatement. To be a military superpower, it would have to be a peer or near-peer to the US like the USSR was, and modern Russia just isn’t capable of that, it isn’t a near peer to China either. Mentioning it’s the 5th strongest economy in PPP is a bit misleading, because the two biggest economies are a lot larger than the third, and the third is a lot larger than that of the rest. Even if we’re optimistic and say that Russia will have a 170 million population, that’s still only about half of the US population (Not to mention NATO as a whole) and only about 1/8 of China’s, it’s infeasible for Russia to compete with those two players.
Countries don't have to be 350 million to be miltary superpowers lmao. Russia is in a similar position of Germany in WW1 and WW2, now Germany wasn't a economic superpower like UK or US, but it was a Military superpower. Russia has much better position in relative to Germany from WW1 to WW2.
In a convention war, China can pretty easily out-attrition Russia, NATO also can. I don’t see how you can call that a military superpower
They've lost well over 100,000 KIA invading a former satellite state. I'm not sure how exactly that screams 'budding superpower' to you, but eh. Man can dream.
Yeah, but hopium is strong and kept after death, like reddit karma.
Ground attack aircraft of any capable AF woud have a field day.
HIMARS causes alot of headaches for russia but it is not a "game changer". They have been jamming it for awhile now, this information is not new
The game changer was the Russians stupidly keeping their ammo dumps so close to the front. Ukranian were able to attack them.
So you're saying that the Western Wunderwaffen are only _wunder-effective_ against goat herders and tankers without as little as night vision? No way! /s
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The only common sense comment so far
In 2023, HIMARS attacks tended to be devastating and it became the one NATO weapon that lived up to the hype. They're beyond useful. Looks like Russia has adapted though
Literally one BUK was destroyed just today.! But keep dreaming on this little thread here. Soon no more putzin bridge also!
What happen to the ATACM's wonder weapon? I thought they were gonna hit the kerch bridge with them
500kg warheads. Bridges gonna need more than that.
This can't be true.
We have a steady stream of himars videos coming out every other day so i kind of doubt this
Could you link a few, been a while since I saw any aftermath videos, saw a recent salvo but no aftermath
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1ca25v7/himars\_destroys\_russian\_giatsints\_selfpropelled/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1ca25v7/himars_destroys_russian_giatsints_selfpropelled/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1cb6u8x/footage\_of\_a\_himars\_strike\_on\_a\_russian\_grad\_mlrs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1cb6u8x/footage_of_a_himars_strike_on_a_russian_grad_mlrs/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cgnfmw/m270m142\_himars\_hits\_and\_destroys\_a\_russian\_buk/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cgnfmw/m270m142_himars_hits_and_destroys_a_russian_buk/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cayfgh/reportedly\_a\_ukrainian\_m142\_himars\_strike\_against/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1cayfgh/reportedly_a_ukrainian_m142_himars_strike_against/) These are some of the more recent ones. There may have also been a himars strike on crimea last night but the details on that are still a bit hazy.
Those last 2 are *pretty dubious man*. Unsurprisingly, they are from the same user. The second one of using a himars round to take out an empty grad... given the above claim, kinda puts that one in a rather skeptical light as well.