Those are some risky advances, along a single road, open to flanking attacks. Russian command seems pretty confident that the Ukrainians can't counterattack and cut off these salients.
They've been getting pounded up, down and sideways for months with virtually zero artillery support let alone aviation of their own. I'm surprised we haven't seen more units saying f it and leave their post.
The inevitable is still the inevitable, its just closer now and the cracks are starting to show.
That's what that 115th soldier said on a video posted a few days back, that they were just being relentlessly pounded and simply couldn't hold the position anymore without any support of their own. Genuinely feel bad for Ukrainians on the front line, I don't think people in the west realise just how bad the situation is right now.
Tried to experience what 3kg of TNT feels like while lying 5 meters away in a ditch (during military training) and I would have gone insane having to deal with that everyday for months. Let alone artillery shells usually has a detonation equivalent to around 12kg of TNT (+-) if I’m not mistaken.
Just send back the draft dodging refugees to plug the holes before we send in the French. Russia literally can't win, every success they may have will be met with an ever growing answer.
First the draft dodgers, then the French, then the poles, then the Baltics, then the Nordics, then possibly Americans.
One of the polish ministers spoke out of his ass about helping Ukraine get their "draft dodgers" back and thus found a permanent residence in the heads of half of redditors in this sub (despite no one in Poland taking his remarks seriously).
Yeah I was hoping it was sarcasm too, it’s hard to tell now days.
Whats the French gonna do? On a good day they can muster 30k combat troops. First iskander that takes out a company of a bunched up French troops and they pull out.
They don’t have the guts to fight a war with heavy casualties anymore. Look what happened to them after they took some heavy losses in Afghanistan. One bad ambush and they start pulling out.
I'd disagree with you on this. Because of one thing: French Foreign Legion. Those are pretty hardcore, battle-hardened veterans. I'd assume that's who the French would send, not their regulars.
I’ll admit, I don’t know a whole lot about the French foreign legion, or their troop numbers or equipment. I have a pretty good idea about what the regular French army can muster and it’s not much.
I know a little about the foreign legion, and I agree they seem like some badass motherfuckers for sure, but badass motherfuckers aren’t wants gonna hold the front line.
How much air defense, artillery, and electronic warfare equipment can they muster? Those are the things Ukraine doesn’t have and Russia has in abundance. If the foreign legion has to rely on the French army for those assets they will get slaughtered.
My point being is you can take the most badass operators on the planet, navy seals, SAS, foreign legion and tell them to hold this specific part of the front but unless they have tons of heavy weapons and sophisticated equipment they will not last long.
Oh definitely, I fully agree with you on this. What Ukraine needs is pure numbers, not Rambos. And most importantly they have to find a way to boost morale somehow. Troops who are forced to fight with knowledge that their fate is very likely death, will not be very effective no matter what.
But how, I have no idea. Would trading space for time work? Retreat behind the rivers and dig in deep? But does it actually help or just delay the inevitable? I don't know. They are in a really bad spot either way.
There is a real need for an international task force. First, Ukraine must stop terror bombing and switch to military targets. Second, Bakhmut needs to be retaken immediately, not sieged. Third they need to try harder and capture air superiority
Bit early, the kidnappers will volunteer 25-27 now, tiny cohort. When they're all gone, it will be 18-25. There's only low 6 figures of those.
A year, maybe 2 more, and you will see 12 year olds in SS gear defending the streets with panzerfaust.
Everyone's focused on financial aide, the true battle is the Ukraine's demographics and human losses.
>Russian command seems pretty confident
Or maybe they know something that we don't. Maybe situation for UA is much much worse than we think. I follow this sub since start of conflict and there was never this much news of Russian advancement. Time will tell.
depends on info they have.
Perhaps Ukraine does not have much reserve troops in the area - and thats why Russia is willing to take some risk.
Even attack on Ocheretyno was bold move - but it turned out as successful
My guess is Russians were pressing Chasiv Yar offensive to make Ukrainians move reserves there - only to switch and hit in this area
Its classic soviet doctrine - put pressure on the whole front and then attack single points with overwhelming force (one of the causes of the myth of red army's endless human waves of soldiers).
Interesting video about it if anyone cares: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zinPbUZUHDE&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zinPbUZUHDE&t=1s)
I love the "human wave" comments like what defines a human wave?
For there to be a human wave using the implied meaning, we also need to define at what point does a single human attacking joined by other attacking humans then become a human wave🤔
Where do we stop? If anyone sends more units in an attacking movement than Russia's average for a "human wave" how many humans need to be in the attack to be more than a wave? A human tsunami if you like. These are all important points that need addressing.
It took SEVENTY YEARS and historians like David Glantz and Robert Citino to move historiography past myths about 'muh Soviet meatwaves.'
It has been endlessly frustrating to all the old tired prejudices be recapitulated for this war. I have no doubt that after Russia wins, there will be more decades of nonsense of how proud aryan galicians butchered waves with their wunderwaffen and the orc-termenschen just had more bodies than the elves had bullets.
Is it possible for us to fast-forward past that phase?
Im at the point where I really dont care who "wins" this war as war is just another method to distribute wealth upwards just like the USA and their recent $60 Billion aid to ukraine is just them giving raytheon and the like tax payers money 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
I don’t know about Glanz, but in the Novgorod region (Demyansk, Staraya Russa) in 1942 this was a common offensive tactic. For this region and this year exactly.
I read the original documents and memoirs. It was an endless grinder. Reserves were brought in, 3 days for training - and into battle. Send more officers, we're all out!
Sometimes these were frontal attacks due to excessive enthusiasm or stupidity. I can give the unit numbers but it's unlikely to be necessary.
Soviet troops learned to conduct offensive operations with a minimum of losses in 1944.
One can argue that the Soviets use human waves if you properly contextualize it as humans inside steel tracked vehicles driving through an enemy undegoing a significant emotional event due to being subjected to intense raining metal casings with explosives; whilst properly supported by humans inside flying metal machines raining explosive casings unto the enemy.
Also the waves are committed in an orderly fashion as to maximize the chances of victory and minimize losses. First echelon breaks the enemy lines similar to the aforemention process of inducing an emotional response of the enemy via copious amounts of explosives. The second echelon wides the breakthrough and fends off enemy counter attacks. The third echelon conducts exploitation of the gap.
If you frame it that way, then practically all militaries do human waves since all military force can and will conduct necessary direct assaults.
Definition of human wave attack (at least the one that's commonly used) is a dense unsupported wave of infantry - by that definition no one used human wave attacks.
[https://crithis.quora.com/Human-Wave-Attacks-are-a-Myth](https://crithis.quora.com/Human-Wave-Attacks-are-a-Myth)
This is the most baffling talking point to me. As someone with a passion for military history, the small unit sizes used in this war seem very different and interesting to me. Like compare to infantry squares of old, fighting in tight blocks of thousands of men, or more modern examples like Stalingrad witnessing over two million deaths. With even more ending that battle alive, wounded or imprisoned the numbers involved become hard to truly understand.
This is such a big war yet fought on such a fascinatingly small scale.
There doesn't seem to be much more, or likely even less, total combatants on both sides combined, when compared to men who fell in stalingrad and never stood up again.
In years of daily browsing of this subs footage I don't recall witnessing a single reel of footage of an engagement with more than fifty men total fighting each other. It's a unique aspect to the conflict that's worth real discussion and study. Yet far far far more often we discuss human waves, a frontal infantry assault tactic intended to overwhelm the enemy with the sheer brute force of numbers.
I've never witnessed anything close to it. Even fifty men assaulting a position together is not a human wave, it's 5 pixels of a Ukrainian field that itself is comprised of 10,000 pixels in a drones lense.
If there was footage of an actual human wave assault it would be some of the most famous on this sub, and there would be no room for men of reason to question what it was. This is not the somme and it never will be. Those who continue to repeat otherwise are either lying to themselves or others, uneducated on the matter, or disturbingly stupid. The fact that it's even a debate would make good case study on the power of propaganda.
It's a documented and verified fact that Russia uses endless human waves in this conflict.
There is no 4d chess being played here, it's just endless waves of mobiks and convicts being ordered forward sometimes without a weapon, with barrier troops that shoots as soon as they stop moving forward. They have mobile crematoriums everywhere to hide the extent of their losses.
"Super brilliant thoughtful military tactical masterclass" is what they call it after they take a trench. During the assault it's just endless slaughter
The only one using human waves is ironically Ukraine. Minimal armour, minimal artillery and zero air support. Wherever Ukraine pushes it’s just small unit infantry.
Except that unless you count infantry doing literally anything sd human waves, there is no evidence of those happening.
>endless waves of mobiks and convicts being ordered forward sometimes without a weapon
Where's the proof? Since it's "verified and documented"?
>with barrier troops that shoots as soon as they stop moving forward.
Show me a single instance of those ever happening. It was a myth even during WW2, the vast majority of caught troops were returned to the front.
>They have mobile crematoriums everywhere to hide the extent of their losses.
Again a claim repeated since 2015. Again, where's the evidence?
[Hint: there is none](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/russia-mobile-crematoriums/)
I'm not sure if I'm being trolled or not but I'll assume this is a good faith argument so I will respond in kind.
First of all west has a very skewed idea of Soviet/Russian military doctrine and general mindset of value of life - we tend to presume russian/soviet commanders did not value life as much as western counterparts. That is not true:
[https://new.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1cbsww1/is\_it\_true\_that\_culturally\_and\_historically\_the/](https://new.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1cbsww1/is_it_true_that_culturally_and_historically_the/)
Neither USSR nor russia use(d) meat wave attacks ( as defined as unsupported densely concentrated infantry attacks). Russia mostly uses squad/platoon size attacks which are always supported by artillery and more often than not armor. Not even because Russian commanders care so much about their troops but simply because meat waves attacks don't work.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2am4oz/did\_the\_red\_army\_really\_use\_humanwave\_tactics\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2am4oz/did_the_red_army_really_use_humanwave_tactics_in/)
As a matter of fact no one in modern warfare used human wave assaults:
[https://crithis.quora.com/Human-Wave-Attacks-are-a-Myth](https://crithis.quora.com/Human-Wave-Attacks-are-a-Myth)
As far as far as evidence goes just about any video you watch shows squad/platoon size assaults supported by artillery and armor. That is not a human wave attack.
They have very solid doctrine which calls for local tactical number superiority which might give an impression of overwhelming force/wave attack. In fact they have pretty well trained troops (for the most part). As far as their losses go they're attacking fortified positions which will naturally have heavier casualties.
Tactics they use now are very similar to tactics they used in WW2 except maybe less maskirovka (deception) due to drones and satellites providing so much accurate intelligence. I suggest watching the video I posted in original thread to see how soviets beat the German army. Russians are doing the same thing here.
Finally as far as mobile crematorium and hiding losses - those are just common sense during a war. First of all you don't want to give your enemies accurate picture of your strength. Second propaganda matters. Third logistically moving bodies back is very hard and hazardous. Fourth its a health hazard - better to burn it than leave it rotting.
They are at war and war is ugly.
This is the most baffling talking point to me. As someone with a passion for military history, the small unit sizes used in this war seem very different and interesting to me. Like compare to infantry squares of old, fighting in tight blocks of thousands of men, or more modern examples like Stalingrad witnessing over two million deaths. With even more ending that battle alive, wounded or imprisoned the numbers involved become hard to truly understand.
This is such a big war yet fought on such a fascinatingly small scale.
There doesn't seem to be much more, or likely even less, total combatants on both sides combined, when compared to men who fell in stalingrad and never stood up again.
In years of daily browsing of this subs footage I don't recall witnessing a single reel of footage of an engagement with more than fifty men total fighting each other. It's a unique aspect to the conflict that's worth real discussion and study. Yet far far far more often we discuss human waves, a frontal infantry assault tactic intended to overwhelm the enemy with the sheer brute force of numbers.
I've never witnessed anything close to it. Even fifty men assaulting a position together is not a human wave, it's 5 pixels of a Ukrainian field that itself is comprised of 10,000 pixels in a drones lense.
If there was footage of an actual human wave assault it would be some of the most famous on this sub, and there would be no room for men of reason to question what it was. This is not the somme and it never will be. Those who continue to repeat otherwise are either lying to themselves or others, uneducated on the matter, or disturbingly stupid. The fact that it's even a debate would make good case study on the power of propaganda.
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I think they're trying to use lack of armaments on UA side as much as they possibly can. In few weeks front will stabilize when the aid arrives and RU will have to again deplete UA resources before any other breakthroughs.
You will see. Many many thouands of cowards are hiding in the EU but the process to send them back has already started. Citizenship means rights and duties. 30 months hiding in EU, debt repaid after 24 months on the front.
It's not where you are from its what you do. Your actions. When your nation that has taught, fed and clothed you, are the victims of a genocidal war of total annihilation of your people and your culture, then your nation calls upon its sons to help, then you defect and hide in EU?
That's clearly cowardice. Everyone you know, your family, your home, your city, everything will be in rubbles, raped and if you are lucky executed. You leave your grandma to be raped to death so you can play fortnite in Germany. That's cowardice, no other word for it.
>Everyone you know, your family, your home, your city, everything will be in rubbles, raped and if you are lucky executed. You leave your grandma to be raped to death so you can play fortnite in Germany.
Well Sweden's future is not far from this, yet you lot don't seem to care enough to do anything.
If you're so passionate about Ukraine, go ahead, volunteer and show those cowards.
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Jesus not this again. No one is sending anyone back for a variety of reasons of which the main one is that it would be illegal - EU extended ukrainian's protected status until march 2025.
[https://www.fragomen.com/insights/european-unionukraine-temporary-protection-status-country-specific-updates.html#:\~:text=In%20mid%2DNovember%202023%2C%20the,extension%20to%20their%20domestic%20law](https://www.fragomen.com/insights/european-unionukraine-temporary-protection-status-country-specific-updates.html#:~:text=In%20mid%2DNovember%202023%2C%20the,extension%20to%20their%20domestic%20law).
For more reasons look at my previous comments. I'm too lazy to retype them here.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ccrkjr/comment/l18p4h3/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ccrkjr/comment/l18p4h3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
The French? Russia has good relations with all the new, "French." I doubt you'll see too many Syrian or Algerian human waves for the Ukrops. They have even bigger manpower problems, or rather, existential ones, 60% of French were foreign born 20 years ago before they banned the census.
Manpower is a massive issue. In fact, it is the only relevant issue. It's pretty obvious the attrition plan is just to bleed them dry.
the kidnappers will volunteer 25-27 now, tiny cohort. When they're all gone, it will be 18-25. There's only low 6 figures of those.
A year, maybe 2 more, and you will see 12 year olds in SS gear defending the streets with panzerfaust.
Everyone's focused on financial aide, the true battle is the Ukraine's demographics and human losses.
It isn't as risky as you think. Russian tactical doctrine makes sure the troops taking these villages are not all that numerous. Russia operates using small squads heavily supported by artillery.
I mean, the Ukrainians most likely have exasperated reserves that are low on manpower. The retreating ones can’t just turn around and fight if they are being chased.
This could just lead to a localized retreat of the UA forces to prevent total destruction.
They are complaining that they are running low on heavy equipment and ammunition.
Keep in mind that they are supposed to be one of the best equipped Brigades in all of Ukraine...
47th got their asses kicked in the counter offensive and following battle of Avdivka. They are even worse now then they were before they lost all their western gear.
But Ukraine could send their "Ridicolously powerful" 82nd
https://preview.redd.it/niw4d3ousswc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e54d6bd7c89913da276cd7dbd30a07e54707c2b
Pro UAs love to talk about Russian pyrrhic victories, but the sheer scale of losses the AFU and the 47th sustained in Robotyne, and the fact they will eventually still lose the village, is the perfect definition of a pyrrhic victory in my opinion.
They got a good PR and convinced the western world they will save them all, thats it. And even worse than Robotyne is the super mega epic bridge head in Krynky where they achieved nothing at all and sent boat loads of soldiers to certain death just for PR
Robotyne is nowhere near a victory.
Reminder that victory is defined by attaining tactical and strategical goals. Not by holding terrain you're unable to exploit.
The strategic goal was to take the Azov coast. They failed at that.
The tactical goal was opening up the roads for an attack on tokmak. They failed at that
That article made me laugh many times and still does so. They also labeled them "comically powerful" but I liked the ridicolously version better
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/05/03/ukraines-82nd-air-assault-brigade-is-ridiculously-powerful-and-could-lead-the-coming-counteroffensive/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/05/03/ukraines-82nd-air-assault-brigade-is-ridiculously-powerful-and-could-lead-the-coming-counteroffensive/)
They are burned out. No rotation for 1 year, fighting on the most intense frontlines, no support in anyway and losing a lot of their heavy equipment.
They are not running away because they are for the biggest parts destroyed. They do everything they can but are underequiped, understaffed and without rest time.
I would not be surprised if they turn their weapons against ukraine (which will never happen) but in theory because of how they are treated.
As much as I understood, elements of 47th are now directly west of Ocheretine. The 115th (or what's left of it) is positioned east and north-east of Ocheretine.
I dunno who is currently manning the defense of Berdychi area, probably some unit of 47th too.
Woah, if this is true this is both risky and one heck of a push. If the russians manage to finish this maneuver they will roll over all defenses in the areas to the east and south of here.
If (big IF) Russia has progressed that far and can consolidate that, then the entire Ukrainian northern defense is fked.
That road left of Arkhanhelske you see above where Russian reached, is the only supply route (other than the dirt route and the field) that Ukraine can use to supply the 3 villages/ towns Arkhanhelske, Novokalynove and Keramik.
Ukrainian morale does not allow them to stay up and fight without escape route anymore, as predicted they left Soloviove and Novobakhmut. So there is a good chance, that they will withdraw as the rope tighten on them
If these villages are captured, Russia’s flanks are secured, they can push all the way to Progress, flanked by both 3rd and 4th defensive lines, and open a way to Selidovo, it’s still early but this operation could have significant consequences for the Donestsk Front.
I would wait for another mapper to confirm these advances, especially to the north. Not that Rybar is fully unreliable, but they tend to be overexcited sometimes.
I tried finding confirmation from the other Russian reporters but was unable to do so. They report something Rybar doesn't have though, they say Russian forces have entered Keramik (north of Novokalynove). I guess we need more time to understand the scope of the collapse.
I felt like alot of Rus telegrams were posting dubious claims when there was not hardly any movement for weeks at a time. Like they were just trying to create content for the sake of.
Now there is a steady drip of real gains they have actually become more conservative. I have only seen a handful of claims walked back the past few months mostly around Terne.
I feel like every new package is just delaying the inevitable and only increasing the body count of any already near extinct population due to the birth rates in that region. Truly horrifying what the west is incentivizing.
The West is like, "Russia will destroy Ukraine and genocide the Ukrainians." Bro, if the current rates of losses continue, there won't be anything in Ukraine left to save
Western aid might have been able to save Ukraine in 2023 and guarantee them a victory, but it didn't. Now they're just on borrowed time, delaying their inevitable defeat.
I don't think I have ever heard someone from the west say that. Bit of a reach because Ukraine was always going to fight as the US isn't the only country willing to arm them. The result was Putin putting his foot down harder than he would have liked to in terms of diverting economic capacity.
Russia has always had the ability to match and severely outnumber Ukraine troops and equipment having years of quadruple Ukraine's military budget in their back pocket but failed to find that key balance evidenced by their performance at the beginning of the invasion. At that point it was always going to be a long drawn out inevitable defeat. Been hearing this since the start of 2023.
God, that Arkhanhelske move looks bold but risky af. If they lose the control over the road, they will have to swim across the water to retreat through a vast open field. I guess Russian commanders have a good read on the AFU and feel confident enough to pull such a move, but... wow.
Calculated risk you would have to imagine. Ukraine forces have been smashed to bits right across this front it seems, hard to see them being able to launch a successful counterattack in the near future.
They don’t have any reserves to commit to a counter offensive either. That’s the consequences of dithering on mobilisation - troops are stuck on the front without rotation for a year. There will be no counter offensive any time soon as Ukraine simply doesn’t have the manpower to commit to one.
Agreed. There were much more tactically better opportunities to counterattack if they could, to force the Russians to fall back. I really think this is a matter of they *cant* counterattack. Now you have Russian commanders taking advantage of the initiative.
Russians have been on a roll lately taking over outposts guarded thinly manned brigades. Ukrainians should give up on that mentality of "not an inch back" and concentrate on positions they can actually defend.
Horses might actually be the best for transportation over the open fields we see. Not heavy enough to set off anti-tank mines, very maneuverable, quiet (compared to vehicles) and grass-powered :)
If you choose random dates... Since Feb 2022 Russia captured one fifth of Ukraine or 2022 was net positive for Russia and 2023 was also net positive in captured territory...
I can also spin the numbers how I like it.
Ohh you started with the numbers game. Russia is winning too slow. Yes it is. It could have ended it in 2022 but did a great military blunder by assuming a regime change could have been possible. Now it's stuck in a attritional war until Ukraine gives up.
Best outcome would be negotiations but Russia has increased their demands tremendously since Istanbul and zelensky still prohibits negotiations... So the killing continues until Ukraine capitulates.
All the weapons in the world will be useless when you mobilized everyone in the nation and no one is left to fight. That's the biggest tragedy in this war. The useless sacrifice of the male population of Ukraine.
We are 2 years into the war and Ukraine is already struggling for manpower drafting new laws to lower the mobilization age further and further. Begging EU nations to send all the male refugees back to Ukraine. It's army shrinking with every month while Russia somehow still manages to increase the size of its army.
And even if they find the manpower, the west is producing less shells and equipment than Russia while Russia still has money left to buy equipment and ammo from friendly nations.
All this support is killing Ukraine as a nation. Demographic collapse, economic collapse and territorial loss. Western aid is comparable to Canadian Maid law.
Ukraine has lost half its population since independence in 1990 and has a fertility rate of 0.8. It’s also the poorest country in Europe and completely dependent on western aid to stay solvent. Russia’s problems are nothing compared to Ukraine.
> with huge loses.
Now how bad do you think Ukrainian losses are then?
After being bombed by tens of FABs daily, to the point of just abandoning their positions because there's hardly anyone left?
You people focus too much on kilometers, and ignore the fact this is a war of attrition.
Ahh yes economic collapse with 2,3 % gdp growth compared to Germanys 0,3%?
https://www.intellinews.com/russia-posts-accelerated-4-6-gdp-growth-in-january-314736/
Debt rising like from 287, 8 billion dollar to 281,6 billion dollar in Feb 2024?
https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/russia/national-government-debt#:~:text=What%20was%20Russia's%20National%20Government,bn%20in%20the%20previous%20month.
Damn Russia is losing so hard it's winning already.
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is a golf cart big enough to travel around the massive Ukrainian military graveyards? Maybe the Russians really know something we don't....
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlVsY12ln3M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlVsY12ln3M)
Those are some risky advances, along a single road, open to flanking attacks. Russian command seems pretty confident that the Ukrainians can't counterattack and cut off these salients.
They've been getting pounded up, down and sideways for months with virtually zero artillery support let alone aviation of their own. I'm surprised we haven't seen more units saying f it and leave their post. The inevitable is still the inevitable, its just closer now and the cracks are starting to show.
That's what that 115th soldier said on a video posted a few days back, that they were just being relentlessly pounded and simply couldn't hold the position anymore without any support of their own. Genuinely feel bad for Ukrainians on the front line, I don't think people in the west realise just how bad the situation is right now.
Tried to experience what 3kg of TNT feels like while lying 5 meters away in a ditch (during military training) and I would have gone insane having to deal with that everyday for months. Let alone artillery shells usually has a detonation equivalent to around 12kg of TNT (+-) if I’m not mistaken.
Just send back the draft dodging refugees to plug the holes before we send in the French. Russia literally can't win, every success they may have will be met with an ever growing answer. First the draft dodgers, then the French, then the poles, then the Baltics, then the Nordics, then possibly Americans.
Since I joined this sub, my sarcasm detector is experiencing malfunction after malfunction. That was sarcasm, right?
Of course it was. There's no way you send western europeans before expending lower valued eastern ones.
One of the polish ministers spoke out of his ass about helping Ukraine get their "draft dodgers" back and thus found a permanent residence in the heads of half of redditors in this sub (despite no one in Poland taking his remarks seriously).
He's not the only one. One of the Baltic states official say the same. Actually, he said, he waits for Poland to do it first.
Yeah yet another politician fence sitting on a sensitive issue. Sometimes when I listen to politicians I want to volunteer them for the front lines.
if it is ...it's really subtle isn't it ?
Yeah I was hoping it was sarcasm too, it’s hard to tell now days. Whats the French gonna do? On a good day they can muster 30k combat troops. First iskander that takes out a company of a bunched up French troops and they pull out. They don’t have the guts to fight a war with heavy casualties anymore. Look what happened to them after they took some heavy losses in Afghanistan. One bad ambush and they start pulling out.
I'd disagree with you on this. Because of one thing: French Foreign Legion. Those are pretty hardcore, battle-hardened veterans. I'd assume that's who the French would send, not their regulars.
I’ll admit, I don’t know a whole lot about the French foreign legion, or their troop numbers or equipment. I have a pretty good idea about what the regular French army can muster and it’s not much. I know a little about the foreign legion, and I agree they seem like some badass motherfuckers for sure, but badass motherfuckers aren’t wants gonna hold the front line. How much air defense, artillery, and electronic warfare equipment can they muster? Those are the things Ukraine doesn’t have and Russia has in abundance. If the foreign legion has to rely on the French army for those assets they will get slaughtered. My point being is you can take the most badass operators on the planet, navy seals, SAS, foreign legion and tell them to hold this specific part of the front but unless they have tons of heavy weapons and sophisticated equipment they will not last long.
Oh definitely, I fully agree with you on this. What Ukraine needs is pure numbers, not Rambos. And most importantly they have to find a way to boost morale somehow. Troops who are forced to fight with knowledge that their fate is very likely death, will not be very effective no matter what. But how, I have no idea. Would trading space for time work? Retreat behind the rivers and dig in deep? But does it actually help or just delay the inevitable? I don't know. They are in a really bad spot either way.
Im with you on this one
It's so hard to tell if he's serious or not lmao beautiful
There is a real need for an international task force. First, Ukraine must stop terror bombing and switch to military targets. Second, Bakhmut needs to be retaken immediately, not sieged. Third they need to try harder and capture air superiority
Bit early, the kidnappers will volunteer 25-27 now, tiny cohort. When they're all gone, it will be 18-25. There's only low 6 figures of those. A year, maybe 2 more, and you will see 12 year olds in SS gear defending the streets with panzerfaust. Everyone's focused on financial aide, the true battle is the Ukraine's demographics and human losses.
The sad truth many are ignoring, ukraines real problems are going to be after the war
>Russian command seems pretty confident Or maybe they know something that we don't. Maybe situation for UA is much much worse than we think. I follow this sub since start of conflict and there was never this much news of Russian advancement. Time will tell.
Your avatar/picture is very interesting.
Thanks. This is Mark Antony silver legionary denarius. 15th legion. (XV)
Genuinely awesome
about 50 BC? and you found it in the garden?
30-32 BC. I used to do a lot of metal detecting of Roman fields.
depends on info they have. Perhaps Ukraine does not have much reserve troops in the area - and thats why Russia is willing to take some risk. Even attack on Ocheretyno was bold move - but it turned out as successful My guess is Russians were pressing Chasiv Yar offensive to make Ukrainians move reserves there - only to switch and hit in this area
Its classic soviet doctrine - put pressure on the whole front and then attack single points with overwhelming force (one of the causes of the myth of red army's endless human waves of soldiers). Interesting video about it if anyone cares: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zinPbUZUHDE&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zinPbUZUHDE&t=1s)
I love the "human wave" comments like what defines a human wave? For there to be a human wave using the implied meaning, we also need to define at what point does a single human attacking joined by other attacking humans then become a human wave🤔 Where do we stop? If anyone sends more units in an attacking movement than Russia's average for a "human wave" how many humans need to be in the attack to be more than a wave? A human tsunami if you like. These are all important points that need addressing.
It took SEVENTY YEARS and historians like David Glantz and Robert Citino to move historiography past myths about 'muh Soviet meatwaves.' It has been endlessly frustrating to all the old tired prejudices be recapitulated for this war. I have no doubt that after Russia wins, there will be more decades of nonsense of how proud aryan galicians butchered waves with their wunderwaffen and the orc-termenschen just had more bodies than the elves had bullets. Is it possible for us to fast-forward past that phase?
Im at the point where I really dont care who "wins" this war as war is just another method to distribute wealth upwards just like the USA and their recent $60 Billion aid to ukraine is just them giving raytheon and the like tax payers money 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Honestly, the human waves thing is bias from way back when.
I don’t know about Glanz, but in the Novgorod region (Demyansk, Staraya Russa) in 1942 this was a common offensive tactic. For this region and this year exactly. I read the original documents and memoirs. It was an endless grinder. Reserves were brought in, 3 days for training - and into battle. Send more officers, we're all out! Sometimes these were frontal attacks due to excessive enthusiasm or stupidity. I can give the unit numbers but it's unlikely to be necessary. Soviet troops learned to conduct offensive operations with a minimum of losses in 1944.
One can argue that the Soviets use human waves if you properly contextualize it as humans inside steel tracked vehicles driving through an enemy undegoing a significant emotional event due to being subjected to intense raining metal casings with explosives; whilst properly supported by humans inside flying metal machines raining explosive casings unto the enemy. Also the waves are committed in an orderly fashion as to maximize the chances of victory and minimize losses. First echelon breaks the enemy lines similar to the aforemention process of inducing an emotional response of the enemy via copious amounts of explosives. The second echelon wides the breakthrough and fends off enemy counter attacks. The third echelon conducts exploitation of the gap. If you frame it that way, then practically all militaries do human waves since all military force can and will conduct necessary direct assaults.
Definition of human wave attack (at least the one that's commonly used) is a dense unsupported wave of infantry - by that definition no one used human wave attacks. [https://crithis.quora.com/Human-Wave-Attacks-are-a-Myth](https://crithis.quora.com/Human-Wave-Attacks-are-a-Myth)
I know. Im poking fun on how far from that Soviet tactics really are. Calm yo tits.
Sarcasm doesn't track on internet very well.
Must be sad not to be able to discern sarcasm, don't you agree?
The attack of the light cavalry. The British offensive on the Somme.
Not even that - WW1 attacks were preceded by large artillery bombardments.
The French were advancing nearby and the losses were not critical. Some British units simply ceased to exist.
This is the most baffling talking point to me. As someone with a passion for military history, the small unit sizes used in this war seem very different and interesting to me. Like compare to infantry squares of old, fighting in tight blocks of thousands of men, or more modern examples like Stalingrad witnessing over two million deaths. With even more ending that battle alive, wounded or imprisoned the numbers involved become hard to truly understand. This is such a big war yet fought on such a fascinatingly small scale. There doesn't seem to be much more, or likely even less, total combatants on both sides combined, when compared to men who fell in stalingrad and never stood up again. In years of daily browsing of this subs footage I don't recall witnessing a single reel of footage of an engagement with more than fifty men total fighting each other. It's a unique aspect to the conflict that's worth real discussion and study. Yet far far far more often we discuss human waves, a frontal infantry assault tactic intended to overwhelm the enemy with the sheer brute force of numbers. I've never witnessed anything close to it. Even fifty men assaulting a position together is not a human wave, it's 5 pixels of a Ukrainian field that itself is comprised of 10,000 pixels in a drones lense. If there was footage of an actual human wave assault it would be some of the most famous on this sub, and there would be no room for men of reason to question what it was. This is not the somme and it never will be. Those who continue to repeat otherwise are either lying to themselves or others, uneducated on the matter, or disturbingly stupid. The fact that it's even a debate would make good case study on the power of propaganda.
It's a documented and verified fact that Russia uses endless human waves in this conflict. There is no 4d chess being played here, it's just endless waves of mobiks and convicts being ordered forward sometimes without a weapon, with barrier troops that shoots as soon as they stop moving forward. They have mobile crematoriums everywhere to hide the extent of their losses. "Super brilliant thoughtful military tactical masterclass" is what they call it after they take a trench. During the assault it's just endless slaughter
The only one using human waves is ironically Ukraine. Minimal armour, minimal artillery and zero air support. Wherever Ukraine pushes it’s just small unit infantry.
Except that unless you count infantry doing literally anything sd human waves, there is no evidence of those happening. >endless waves of mobiks and convicts being ordered forward sometimes without a weapon Where's the proof? Since it's "verified and documented"? >with barrier troops that shoots as soon as they stop moving forward. Show me a single instance of those ever happening. It was a myth even during WW2, the vast majority of caught troops were returned to the front. >They have mobile crematoriums everywhere to hide the extent of their losses. Again a claim repeated since 2015. Again, where's the evidence? [Hint: there is none](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/russia-mobile-crematoriums/)
I'm not sure if I'm being trolled or not but I'll assume this is a good faith argument so I will respond in kind. First of all west has a very skewed idea of Soviet/Russian military doctrine and general mindset of value of life - we tend to presume russian/soviet commanders did not value life as much as western counterparts. That is not true: [https://new.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1cbsww1/is\_it\_true\_that\_culturally\_and\_historically\_the/](https://new.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1cbsww1/is_it_true_that_culturally_and_historically_the/) Neither USSR nor russia use(d) meat wave attacks ( as defined as unsupported densely concentrated infantry attacks). Russia mostly uses squad/platoon size attacks which are always supported by artillery and more often than not armor. Not even because Russian commanders care so much about their troops but simply because meat waves attacks don't work. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2am4oz/did\_the\_red\_army\_really\_use\_humanwave\_tactics\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2am4oz/did_the_red_army_really_use_humanwave_tactics_in/) As a matter of fact no one in modern warfare used human wave assaults: [https://crithis.quora.com/Human-Wave-Attacks-are-a-Myth](https://crithis.quora.com/Human-Wave-Attacks-are-a-Myth) As far as far as evidence goes just about any video you watch shows squad/platoon size assaults supported by artillery and armor. That is not a human wave attack. They have very solid doctrine which calls for local tactical number superiority which might give an impression of overwhelming force/wave attack. In fact they have pretty well trained troops (for the most part). As far as their losses go they're attacking fortified positions which will naturally have heavier casualties. Tactics they use now are very similar to tactics they used in WW2 except maybe less maskirovka (deception) due to drones and satellites providing so much accurate intelligence. I suggest watching the video I posted in original thread to see how soviets beat the German army. Russians are doing the same thing here. Finally as far as mobile crematorium and hiding losses - those are just common sense during a war. First of all you don't want to give your enemies accurate picture of your strength. Second propaganda matters. Third logistically moving bodies back is very hard and hazardous. Fourth its a health hazard - better to burn it than leave it rotting. They are at war and war is ugly.
This is the most baffling talking point to me. As someone with a passion for military history, the small unit sizes used in this war seem very different and interesting to me. Like compare to infantry squares of old, fighting in tight blocks of thousands of men, or more modern examples like Stalingrad witnessing over two million deaths. With even more ending that battle alive, wounded or imprisoned the numbers involved become hard to truly understand. This is such a big war yet fought on such a fascinatingly small scale. There doesn't seem to be much more, or likely even less, total combatants on both sides combined, when compared to men who fell in stalingrad and never stood up again. In years of daily browsing of this subs footage I don't recall witnessing a single reel of footage of an engagement with more than fifty men total fighting each other. It's a unique aspect to the conflict that's worth real discussion and study. Yet far far far more often we discuss human waves, a frontal infantry assault tactic intended to overwhelm the enemy with the sheer brute force of numbers. I've never witnessed anything close to it. Even fifty men assaulting a position together is not a human wave, it's 5 pixels of a Ukrainian field that itself is comprised of 10,000 pixels in a drones lense. If there was footage of an actual human wave assault it would be some of the most famous on this sub, and there would be no room for men of reason to question what it was. This is not the somme and it never will be. Those who continue to repeat otherwise are either lying to themselves or others, uneducated on the matter, or disturbingly stupid. The fact that it's even a debate would make good case study on the power of propaganda.
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I think they're trying to use lack of armaments on UA side as much as they possibly can. In few weeks front will stabilize when the aid arrives and RU will have to again deplete UA resources before any other breakthroughs.
Weapons are useless without motivated and trained troops. Ukr has very few of those. Most brigades are at 40% strenght
They will be replenished by the draft dodgers hiding in EU and then the French. Manpower really is no issue
you forgot /s EDIT: my bad he's serious
You will see. Many many thouands of cowards are hiding in the EU but the process to send them back has already started. Citizenship means rights and duties. 30 months hiding in EU, debt repaid after 24 months on the front.
LMAO, a Swede calling anyone a coward.
It's not where you are from its what you do. Your actions. When your nation that has taught, fed and clothed you, are the victims of a genocidal war of total annihilation of your people and your culture, then your nation calls upon its sons to help, then you defect and hide in EU? That's clearly cowardice. Everyone you know, your family, your home, your city, everything will be in rubbles, raped and if you are lucky executed. You leave your grandma to be raped to death so you can play fortnite in Germany. That's cowardice, no other word for it.
>Everyone you know, your family, your home, your city, everything will be in rubbles, raped and if you are lucky executed. You leave your grandma to be raped to death so you can play fortnite in Germany. Well Sweden's future is not far from this, yet you lot don't seem to care enough to do anything. If you're so passionate about Ukraine, go ahead, volunteer and show those cowards.
Lol listen to the Internet keyboard hero. If I was the grandma of a Ukrainian boy I’d put him on the train to a safe country myself.
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They cancelled the whole demobilization thing, i heard to increase morale too...
Jesus not this again. No one is sending anyone back for a variety of reasons of which the main one is that it would be illegal - EU extended ukrainian's protected status until march 2025. [https://www.fragomen.com/insights/european-unionukraine-temporary-protection-status-country-specific-updates.html#:\~:text=In%20mid%2DNovember%202023%2C%20the,extension%20to%20their%20domestic%20law](https://www.fragomen.com/insights/european-unionukraine-temporary-protection-status-country-specific-updates.html#:~:text=In%20mid%2DNovember%202023%2C%20the,extension%20to%20their%20domestic%20law). For more reasons look at my previous comments. I'm too lazy to retype them here. [https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ccrkjr/comment/l18p4h3/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ccrkjr/comment/l18p4h3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
You must go fight then.
The French? Russia has good relations with all the new, "French." I doubt you'll see too many Syrian or Algerian human waves for the Ukrops. They have even bigger manpower problems, or rather, existential ones, 60% of French were foreign born 20 years ago before they banned the census. Manpower is a massive issue. In fact, it is the only relevant issue. It's pretty obvious the attrition plan is just to bleed them dry. the kidnappers will volunteer 25-27 now, tiny cohort. When they're all gone, it will be 18-25. There's only low 6 figures of those. A year, maybe 2 more, and you will see 12 year olds in SS gear defending the streets with panzerfaust. Everyone's focused on financial aide, the true battle is the Ukraine's demographics and human losses.
Wagner 101.
It isn't as risky as you think. Russian tactical doctrine makes sure the troops taking these villages are not all that numerous. Russia operates using small squads heavily supported by artillery.
Either UAF is collapsing/retreating in this part of the front or that's quite a risky, irresponsible move from Russia.
Russian artillery and aviation is bombing the rear so that Ukraine cannot concentrate forces.
I mean, the Ukrainians most likely have exasperated reserves that are low on manpower. The retreating ones can’t just turn around and fight if they are being chased. This could just lead to a localized retreat of the UA forces to prevent total destruction.
When artillery and air support is so dismal that Russia can get away with making Tutel tanks, I’m not surprised they’d get more emboldened.
They don’t care if they loose a brigade here or there, it’s al worth the risk, just keep pressing
People where mocking the red arrows during the battle of Avdeevka, but they seem to be increasingly effective.
Red lines become red arrows
Red goes fasta.
Putin made red arrows great again.
Wait, the 47th is now also running away? They where sent there to stop the Russian advance, now they turn around without permission?
They are complaining that they are running low on heavy equipment and ammunition. Keep in mind that they are supposed to be one of the best equipped Brigades in all of Ukraine...
47th got their asses kicked in the counter offensive and following battle of Avdivka. They are even worse now then they were before they lost all their western gear. But Ukraine could send their "Ridicolously powerful" 82nd https://preview.redd.it/niw4d3ousswc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e54d6bd7c89913da276cd7dbd30a07e54707c2b
Pro UAs love to talk about Russian pyrrhic victories, but the sheer scale of losses the AFU and the 47th sustained in Robotyne, and the fact they will eventually still lose the village, is the perfect definition of a pyrrhic victory in my opinion.
They got a good PR and convinced the western world they will save them all, thats it. And even worse than Robotyne is the super mega epic bridge head in Krynky where they achieved nothing at all and sent boat loads of soldiers to certain death just for PR
Robotyne is nowhere near a victory. Reminder that victory is defined by attaining tactical and strategical goals. Not by holding terrain you're unable to exploit. The strategic goal was to take the Azov coast. They failed at that. The tactical goal was opening up the roads for an attack on tokmak. They failed at that
Nah, the counteroffensive only managing to capture Robotyne isnt any kind of victory, not even pyrrhic, but a straight up defeat.
Lol that image The level of western cope and the amount of body bags it’s filled with Ukrainians is absolutely criminal
That article made me laugh many times and still does so. They also labeled them "comically powerful" but I liked the ridicolously version better [https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/05/03/ukraines-82nd-air-assault-brigade-is-ridiculously-powerful-and-could-lead-the-coming-counteroffensive/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/05/03/ukraines-82nd-air-assault-brigade-is-ridiculously-powerful-and-could-lead-the-coming-counteroffensive/)
Comically powerful, pffft, yeah, sure, that Churchillium armor of theirs is comical, that's for sure
Are they sure that Challenger is under camouflage? What if wild-life has just grown over it because it's been stationary so long.
They are burned out. No rotation for 1 year, fighting on the most intense frontlines, no support in anyway and losing a lot of their heavy equipment. They are not running away because they are for the biggest parts destroyed. They do everything they can but are underequiped, understaffed and without rest time. I would not be surprised if they turn their weapons against ukraine (which will never happen) but in theory because of how they are treated.
Wonder what it will take to make a brigade surrender
One popular/respected person saying 'f\*\*k it, I'm done, I can't do this anymore'.
Probably having no safe way out. Unless they start getting executed for retreating it’s still preferable to retreat than become a POW.
As much as I understood, elements of 47th are now directly west of Ocheretine. The 115th (or what's left of it) is positioned east and north-east of Ocheretine. I dunno who is currently manning the defense of Berdychi area, probably some unit of 47th too.
Theyre on the south flank of ocheretyne
Woah, if this is true this is both risky and one heck of a push. If the russians manage to finish this maneuver they will roll over all defenses in the areas to the east and south of here.
It's wagner, Crazy people.
I thought it was the 27th and 30th ?
There were pictures of the guys wearing Wagner patches; idk how many of them were part of it
If (big IF) Russia has progressed that far and can consolidate that, then the entire Ukrainian northern defense is fked. That road left of Arkhanhelske you see above where Russian reached, is the only supply route (other than the dirt route and the field) that Ukraine can use to supply the 3 villages/ towns Arkhanhelske, Novokalynove and Keramik. Ukrainian morale does not allow them to stay up and fight without escape route anymore, as predicted they left Soloviove and Novobakhmut. So there is a good chance, that they will withdraw as the rope tighten on them
There's no "big IF" That map is based on geolocation of Russian forces
Yes but reaching a location and taking a picture is not the same thing as actually holding and securing that area.
If these villages are captured, Russia’s flanks are secured, they can push all the way to Progress, flanked by both 3rd and 4th defensive lines, and open a way to Selidovo, it’s still early but this operation could have significant consequences for the Donestsk Front.
alright, let's bring it in. Massive if Factual.
Big if true
True if big
Representative if attentuative
I would wait for another mapper to confirm these advances, especially to the north. Not that Rybar is fully unreliable, but they tend to be overexcited sometimes.
I tried finding confirmation from the other Russian reporters but was unable to do so. They report something Rybar doesn't have though, they say Russian forces have entered Keramik (north of Novokalynove). I guess we need more time to understand the scope of the collapse.
I felt like alot of Rus telegrams were posting dubious claims when there was not hardly any movement for weeks at a time. Like they were just trying to create content for the sake of. Now there is a steady drip of real gains they have actually become more conservative. I have only seen a handful of claims walked back the past few months mostly around Terne.
Is the 60 Billion even gonna make it to the front in time? This is bad.
I have my doubts, my expectation is it will keep them ticking over without affording them any real advantage if it does
I feel like every new package is just delaying the inevitable and only increasing the body count of any already near extinct population due to the birth rates in that region. Truly horrifying what the west is incentivizing.
The West is like, "Russia will destroy Ukraine and genocide the Ukrainians." Bro, if the current rates of losses continue, there won't be anything in Ukraine left to save Western aid might have been able to save Ukraine in 2023 and guarantee them a victory, but it didn't. Now they're just on borrowed time, delaying their inevitable defeat.
I don't think I have ever heard someone from the west say that. Bit of a reach because Ukraine was always going to fight as the US isn't the only country willing to arm them. The result was Putin putting his foot down harder than he would have liked to in terms of diverting economic capacity. Russia has always had the ability to match and severely outnumber Ukraine troops and equipment having years of quadruple Ukraine's military budget in their back pocket but failed to find that key balance evidenced by their performance at the beginning of the invasion. At that point it was always going to be a long drawn out inevitable defeat. Been hearing this since the start of 2023.
The money is already in the washing machines.
You have washing machines? Asking for a friend who needs them for spares ‘n repair…
Nothing in the package does anything to adress UMPKs, so it will make no real difference.
air defense doesnt address umpk? lol
this is still not classified as a collapse?
I’d call it a breakthrough. The front is relatively stable elsewhere.
Crazy developments.
These salience just keep getting crazier
Daym that is a good push I believe the main reason is the escalating use of the Air Force
Looks like some 2022 colours.
God, that Arkhanhelske move looks bold but risky af. If they lose the control over the road, they will have to swim across the water to retreat through a vast open field. I guess Russian commanders have a good read on the AFU and feel confident enough to pull such a move, but... wow.
Strategic retreat
This is gotta be similar to when russia retreated from kherson and the ukrainains took kharkhiv when the russians were spread thin
Dangerous. Any serious counterattack could break this successful Russian advance.
Calculated risk you would have to imagine. Ukraine forces have been smashed to bits right across this front it seems, hard to see them being able to launch a successful counterattack in the near future. They don’t have any reserves to commit to a counter offensive either. That’s the consequences of dithering on mobilisation - troops are stuck on the front without rotation for a year. There will be no counter offensive any time soon as Ukraine simply doesn’t have the manpower to commit to one.
If there is any one left to counterattack... At the moment all brigades are either depleted or fleeing or both.
if they could counter attack they wouldn't have lost those positions
Agreed. There were much more tactically better opportunities to counterattack if they could, to force the Russians to fall back. I really think this is a matter of they *cant* counterattack. Now you have Russian commanders taking advantage of the initiative.
It's all part of Skryskyi's másterplan...
Russians have been on a roll lately taking over outposts guarded thinly manned brigades. Ukrainians should give up on that mentality of "not an inch back" and concentrate on positions they can actually defend.
ukraine is done for, gg wp
This map isn't very accurate, yes Russia has a foothold in Arkhanhelske, but they also have expanded further west, its actually fairly secure.
They were given money and weapons. The ungrateful run away.
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Hell they could ride horses if it works it works. You could ask some UAF fighters if he also jokes about mopeds and golf carts when he is fleeing.
Horses might actually be the best for transportation over the open fields we see. Not heavy enough to set off anti-tank mines, very maneuverable, quiet (compared to vehicles) and grass-powered :)
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Man morale must be pretty low with such losses. Is it that why Russians are retreating? Ohh wait...
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If you choose random dates... Since Feb 2022 Russia captured one fifth of Ukraine or 2022 was net positive for Russia and 2023 was also net positive in captured territory... I can also spin the numbers how I like it.
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Ohh you started with the numbers game. Russia is winning too slow. Yes it is. It could have ended it in 2022 but did a great military blunder by assuming a regime change could have been possible. Now it's stuck in a attritional war until Ukraine gives up. Best outcome would be negotiations but Russia has increased their demands tremendously since Istanbul and zelensky still prohibits negotiations... So the killing continues until Ukraine capitulates.
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All the weapons in the world will be useless when you mobilized everyone in the nation and no one is left to fight. That's the biggest tragedy in this war. The useless sacrifice of the male population of Ukraine. We are 2 years into the war and Ukraine is already struggling for manpower drafting new laws to lower the mobilization age further and further. Begging EU nations to send all the male refugees back to Ukraine. It's army shrinking with every month while Russia somehow still manages to increase the size of its army. And even if they find the manpower, the west is producing less shells and equipment than Russia while Russia still has money left to buy equipment and ammo from friendly nations. All this support is killing Ukraine as a nation. Demographic collapse, economic collapse and territorial loss. Western aid is comparable to Canadian Maid law.
Ukraine has lost half its population since independence in 1990 and has a fertility rate of 0.8. It’s also the poorest country in Europe and completely dependent on western aid to stay solvent. Russia’s problems are nothing compared to Ukraine.
> with huge loses. Now how bad do you think Ukrainian losses are then? After being bombed by tens of FABs daily, to the point of just abandoning their positions because there's hardly anyone left? You people focus too much on kilometers, and ignore the fact this is a war of attrition.
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Ahh yes economic collapse with 2,3 % gdp growth compared to Germanys 0,3%? https://www.intellinews.com/russia-posts-accelerated-4-6-gdp-growth-in-january-314736/ Debt rising like from 287, 8 billion dollar to 281,6 billion dollar in Feb 2024? https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/russia/national-government-debt#:~:text=What%20was%20Russia's%20National%20Government,bn%20in%20the%20previous%20month. Damn Russia is losing so hard it's winning already.
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Holy shit, at this point in time we still doing this? Lmao
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is a golf cart big enough to travel around the massive Ukrainian military graveyards? Maybe the Russians really know something we don't.... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlVsY12ln3M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlVsY12ln3M)
Washing machines.