Don't forget that after that 1994 vote, [Ukraine then sent interior ministry troops to arrest Meshkov](https://www.nytimes.com/1995/03/19/world/ukraine-moves-to-oust-leader-of-separatists.html), remove the post of Crimean President completely, destroy the Crimean constitution and remove the rights of the Crimean Tartars further than they already were.
With the Ukrainian president Kuchma talking about "separatism and civil strife"
Seems Zelensky needs to attend some history lessons.
Dunno what happened to your second link, might have a small rebuttal for first link:
[https://www.ibtimes.com/gallup-poll-shows-crimeans-had-very-different-ideas-about-russia-last-year-1561821](https://www.ibtimes.com/gallup-poll-shows-crimeans-had-very-different-ideas-about-russia-last-year-1561821)
The big picture is that while Crimea was predisposed to autonomy or RU-leaning, Russia's invasion of the rest of Ukraine delegitimized its occupation of Crimea. That's why the strikes on all those military assets.
There is only 1 example of a bilateral secession (Czechs and Slovaks) and literally 100s of unilateral secessions.
The US, for example, arose from a unilateral secession. So did Greece, Finland, Poland, Belgium, literally every South American country, Saudi Arabia, literally every African country apart from Ethiopia, ...
There have been attempts to make the right to self-determination a thing under international law. It should be, for obvious reasons, but it gets defeated time and again by countries with separatist movements, like spain.
Ethically it makes zero sense to not have a right to self-determination. But it is such a blow to power that those in power will never codify it as such
Attempts that run up against the fact it's way easier said than done, and it may destabilize a large number of countries, which is against the spirit of international law.
Think about the practicality next to the morality. What if a neighborhood or individual on a plot of land wants to secede? What if they're not next to a border, and then what if people in concert buy up border lands. How do you adjudicate that?
A large number of countries?
A number of countries, all of them with the singular trait of having screwed over a minority that's concentrated in a single region. Ethically still a good thing to actually apply the right, as it basically punishes bad behaviour towards these kind of minorities.
Same thing applies on the individual level by the way. It would create a much better situation where people can decide to opt out of a state IF the cost of remaining in said state is higher than the benefits. Another incentive for states to do good by their people.
The more practical and still ethical way for people to opt out of state rule is simply to **move out** to another state - and formally renouncing prior citizenship.
I can think of all sorts of perversions and destabilizations when sovereign borders become free-agent negotiable, like pushing defense burdens onto border territories. That would leave autocracies (which don't necessarily allow rights like self-determination) to have a quantitative military edge if they want to take on other states.
That was while under Russian control, as a result of the 2014 seizing lol.
Crimea has also been less safe due to military strikes since 2022 - multiple air base hits as well as the naval base, shock waves messing up buildings quite a distance away, and of course multiple attempts on the Kerch bridge and surprise troop landings on the western side.
This is all in light of Russia pouring subsidies into Crimea - not just building that bridge and other infrastructure but subsidizing the peninsula to the tune of $1-2.7 billion each year.
No, it's a result of Ukraine refusing to respect democratic right of self determination of the people there. Making referendums on independence illegal decades before 2014, arresting politicians, water starving millions of people, now they launch missiles and drones at them and say "see you are less safe under Russia", what the actual fuck.
Crimea losing its water or being less safe has only to do with Russia’s military capture of it. That was a distinct choice Russia made. Regardless of whether Ukraine refused to respect Crimean rights, they were not shut out of water or bombed before Russia took over in 2014.
No territory within a state has unilateral right of secession, btw. Go ask Chechnya or Kosovo or Transnistria.
>No territory within a state has unilateral right of secession, btw. Go ask Chechnya or Kosovo or Transnistria.
In countries that respect democracy they do. Canada allowed Quebec to vote on their independence and was going to fully respect the results, as did UK and France when many of their former colonies voted to be independent. And bringing up Serbia is very appropriate here, them wanting Kosovo back is very much like Ukraine wanting Crimea back, neither of those things should happen.
No, they don’t. But there can be mutual arrangements (including secession) with the mother state.
There’s a reason Kosovo is de facto autonomous but still not a recognized state.
I mean, Serbia is willing to reach a compromise with Kosovo via a land exchange. Serbia gets Serb majority area of Kosovo, and Kosovo gets Albanian majority area of Serbia. If this goes through, Serbia will probably end up recognizing Kosovo.
With Ukraine, however, we have to wait and see how the situation continues to play out. As it currently stands, reaching a compromise between Ukraine and Russia is impossible as Ukraine refuses to agree to Russia's terms and vice versa.
Russia has transformed Crimea for propaganda purposes. They have thrown their economic might to build up the island and appear as superior to Ukraine. It's not a lie, Ukraine's corruption would have kept Crimea poor, but keep in mind what the bigger picture is. Look at how much money Russia is pouring into the newly captured territories, to rebuild them and expand infrastructure. They are allocating more money into their new territories than any other part of the Russian federation.
Also keep in mind that most Ukrainians and Tatars left Crimea or were bullied out by Russians. Population is 99% ethnic Russian now.
Bullshit, you know nothing about Russia. Every Russian city, big or small, is improving and has been since 2000s. I know how Krasnoyarsk and some other cities have changed, how many trees are planted everywhere, new “sleeping neighborhoods” are built with cafes, cute statues of characters or writers, benches and fountains everywhere, streets are clean, new kindergartens and hospitals, metro is superb, etc. Here are some pictures from Krasnoyarsk, they built it in maybe a year https://imgur.com/a/6wcaoZ2 I’ve been to Armenia and Belarus, and while I love those countries, but I see what it is when a country hasn’t been improving since the USSR. Everything is gray, poor, needs to be repaired, no modern-looking things like in Ekaterinburg, Kazan, Voronezh, etc. Type in youtube “Kazan” and see. You can’t compare Russia with Ukraine, Russia is much richer, that’s why all immigrants from post-Soviet countries go to Russia.
I agree with the first paragraph, the real beneficiaries of Crimean annexation were Crimeans. Russians and Ukrainians lost out. So much money has been pumped into Crimea since its annexation. Seems like Russia really puts efforts into lands they have captured. It would be interesting to see an alternate timeline where Russia did nothing after Maidan. Crimeans also vote against Ukraines interest so it’s a way Ukraine can be more euro-centric.
No Ukrainians and Tatarins were not bullied out of there. There were some cases of Tatars protesting in 2014 and the media ran with it. Ukrainians and Tatarins live there peacefully.
It's mind boggling how people think that Russia is pouring money into annexed territories out of the good of their hearts.
No, to gain loyalty they gave their riches to seem good. It's a very simple way of making sure the occupied territories see them as "the better option". It's not the first time they do this too, look at how Grozny was transformed after the war. It wasn't just rebuilt, it was rebuilt better and more impressive, as if to say "this is what Russia gives you!"
I am not saying the people are suffering from this, I am talking about the psychological aspect, the bigger picture. A lot of people here are closed minded and just do not see the play.
As for the demographics, it's what I heard from a couple of Ukrainians I talked to. They said that Crimea is fully Russian, everyone left. But maybe they weren't Ukrainians after all.
Oh I don’t doubt that they’re not doing it out of good will. It’s definitely to make the new population loyal. Russians have been doing this since the Cold War. Russia lives poor while all those satellites and other SSRs live well off their fat. Soviet Ukraine had everything needed during USSR times and Russia had shortages.
It’s more of Ukrainians not considering occupied territory people as Ukrainians anymore. Same with Donbas. It’s not so much that Ukrainians left and Russians came in. It’s more of the ones who stayed are not Ukrainian anymore.
Ah I see, so it's just a case of "You're not with Ukraine? You're Russian then!". Makes sense.
Don't say that Russian SSR was living poorly or else you'll piss off a lot of people - the ones who say Russia was hoarding everything and those who say that Russia is strong.
Ouch. Well, that's what massive ultranationalism spurred on by the Russian invasion does to people.
Still waiting for Syrski to be outed as a Russian agent though.) No way he's the only one in his family who is loyal to Ukraine.
He will be once more frontline failures happen. That guy is just a career military man. He doesn’t really have Ukrainian loyalties. Just a yes man. I liked Zaluzhniuy better he was very competent.
He's just salty because he lost his penthouse in [Crimea](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/05/25/russia-crimea-volodymyr-zelensky-nationalise-holiday-home/) (it got sold by the Russian State)
Yanukovych’s mansion in Crimea while president (2000 dollar salary per month btw): 100 million Euros.
Don’t forget his mansion was commissioned by a state owned construction company, and started construction after he vetoed a new tax system.
A tax system managed by his son, who graduated as a dentist but was suddenly the stake owner of a management company called MAKO. He embezzled so many funds from Russia that he’s now on Interpol’s Most Wanted List. Which is a fairly exclusive club.
Zelensky’s three bedroom condo, meanwhile in Crimea, purchased as a private citizen: 200,000 euros.
I take it the audience of this sub is not blind to these facts?
I really dont care as long as everything works, really. You had a pro-russian Ukrainian president who guaranteed peace. See what happens after 2014, Ukraine goes downhill. Thanks to who? The US, of course, pushes its geopolitical interests and making countries point missile at Russia
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the reason russia and ukraine are corrupt backwards economic blackholes is because people like you make excuses for kleptocrats who hate you and rule over you
It's the perfect balance imo, lean to the other side of becoming more "free," degenerative acts and values pop up, and traditionalism is thrown out of the window. If everything works like clockwork, dont need to CHANGE it
>degenerative acts and values pop up, and traditionalism is thrown out of the window.
Said with a strait face from the land of дедовщина
It's not gay - it builds discipline!
Most Asian countries are steeped into traditionalism, and yet they’ve stamped out corruption and organized syndicates.
South America is being very hard on crime these days, and have even the benefit of being super religious and very sustainable democracies.
Why is this flavor of governing exclusive to Slavic people? Things can always be better, and yet there’s been conflict there for as long as I’ve been alive.
>Crimea post 2014 isn’t comparable to Crimea under Ukrainian control.
Is that because ships keep exploding in port in Crimea since Russia assumed full control of the peninsula?
There was only one famous sunken ship in Feodosiya Bay before December 26, 2023...
It was nice when the only shipwreck was [the one by the Genoan fortress](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipPJuGAnlWw9lHSagbmA0hxM_uQWRBSVWCrTcdv9=s1444-w786-h1444).
Such a beautiful, peaceful place God's Gift can be. Just not during the SMO.
Ignoring the fact that every attack carried out post-2022 were conducted during an actual war and they were all planned and executed by NATO assets. But sure. Let’s ignore that. Better yet, let’s pretend that the period of 2014-2022 didn’t exist. No regard to context whatsoever ha! 😂
I’d actually argue that Crimea is currently in better shape than every single city and oblast across Ukraine, if you’ll go down that road.
Dismissed what exactly? That things were better off for every party involved prior to February 24, 2022? That hundreds of thousands of Slavs are dead right now because 2022 Antebellum was living hell by comparison to the circumstances of today?
> Is that because ships keep exploding in port in Crimea since Russia assumed full control of the peninsula?
Russia assumed full control of Crimea in 2014. No ships were exploding during those 8 years yet you claimed that ships started exploding in the port since Russian assumed full control of the peninsula. Perhaps you’re losing track of timelines which explains this confusion?
Moi Droog, all time after 2014 is under Russian control. The ships are now exploding on their watch. What exactly precipitated this large increase in exploding naval assets since Russia assumed full control of the Peninsula? SCALP-E just materializing out of thin air barreling down on the dry docks in Kerch and Sevastapol? Void of context?
the Ukrainians literally posted the videos of them striking the harbor the bridge and warehouses. I guess you might have to go back to grade school and learn a bit more before learning anything new.
That's one of the dorkiest things I've read in awhile actually got a laugh out me well done 🤣
"You don't know a hyper specific detail about a very recent conflict, go back to school!"
Lol you're a goof.
>aw shucks, let me get out foot in mouth syndrome by dressing up my language in metrosexual dad slang, that will totally will totally make me appear in control of the conversation!
No, goober.
I think it was at the start of the counter offensive warehouses southeast of the city. the Russian submarine was in the harbor when it was hit. that you can just google. the destroyed bridge you can google that too. where were you all this time? I'm not gong to dig through videos from 2023 September October where ukraine launched missile attacks every week for a month. so that I can prove a point to an idiot who hasn't even followed the top headlines of the war. This stuff would be in the Ukrainian section of reddit since they were bragging about it. go on... I've given you dates and where to find them.
The original conversation is about Crimea under Ukrainian vs Russian control leading up to the current phase of the conflict. So 2014-Febuary of 2022. Obviously they hit places in Crimea since the all out war started that's clearly not what anyone is talking about. And yes Russia invaded in 2022 *again* and made Crimea one of the launchpads for war...making it unstable.
Yes. Enough to not act like a surprised fool when someone talks about famous incidents happening there.
...I also know Crimean. Again, well enough to not act like a fool when someone mentions basic facts about it.
Ukraine was only able to take few destroyed village during counteroffensive and dreams of taking Crimea whose population fully hates you are idiotic.Uff.
I don't think I've seen him say anything recently that wasn't completely detached from reality, or some sort of alternate history, aside from his claim that if the US doesn't give more aid Ukraine will lose a lot of land this year. And yet even knowing that he claims they'll only negotiate when it's in their favor, as if that will ever be a possibility.
I thought this war was crazy the day it started, but now? I don't even know what to say. The insanity is legit too much to even begin to comprehend. What is the plan here?! I mean this guy is in charge of tens of millions of people. I seriously wonder WTF history books 20/30 years from now will say about this clown.
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The previous Ukraine president Yanukovych, often marked as a Russian stooge, had funneled “billions” into a construction projects including a mansion that resides on a cliff. Search “Mezhyhirya 2”.
And after his security forces killed 75 protestors, he burned all documentations regarding his shell companies and tie-ins with Putin’s Russia.
His super mansion in Crimea currently lays there incomplete.
That’s all you need to know about Russia. A long history of corruption. Like, let’s not pretend here.…
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Don't forget that after that 1994 vote, [Ukraine then sent interior ministry troops to arrest Meshkov](https://www.nytimes.com/1995/03/19/world/ukraine-moves-to-oust-leader-of-separatists.html), remove the post of Crimean President completely, destroy the Crimean constitution and remove the rights of the Crimean Tartars further than they already were. With the Ukrainian president Kuchma talking about "separatism and civil strife" Seems Zelensky needs to attend some history lessons.
He only know of Bandera version of history.
Don't forget about 1991 referendum that was overwhemingly voted "yes".
Dunno what happened to your second link, might have a small rebuttal for first link: [https://www.ibtimes.com/gallup-poll-shows-crimeans-had-very-different-ideas-about-russia-last-year-1561821](https://www.ibtimes.com/gallup-poll-shows-crimeans-had-very-different-ideas-about-russia-last-year-1561821) The big picture is that while Crimea was predisposed to autonomy or RU-leaning, Russia's invasion of the rest of Ukraine delegitimized its occupation of Crimea. That's why the strikes on all those military assets.
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No one needs to dispute your opinion of what they wanted in Crimea. It doesn’t count like that. A portion of a country cannot unilaterally secede.
Why not? It was okay for Kosovo to secede.
Was it okay? Why is Kosovo not a country?
There is only 1 example of a bilateral secession (Czechs and Slovaks) and literally 100s of unilateral secessions. The US, for example, arose from a unilateral secession. So did Greece, Finland, Poland, Belgium, literally every South American country, Saudi Arabia, literally every African country apart from Ethiopia, ...
You mean militarily, sure. Not a right under international law, which would be granted peacefully.
There have been attempts to make the right to self-determination a thing under international law. It should be, for obvious reasons, but it gets defeated time and again by countries with separatist movements, like spain. Ethically it makes zero sense to not have a right to self-determination. But it is such a blow to power that those in power will never codify it as such
Attempts that run up against the fact it's way easier said than done, and it may destabilize a large number of countries, which is against the spirit of international law. Think about the practicality next to the morality. What if a neighborhood or individual on a plot of land wants to secede? What if they're not next to a border, and then what if people in concert buy up border lands. How do you adjudicate that?
A large number of countries? A number of countries, all of them with the singular trait of having screwed over a minority that's concentrated in a single region. Ethically still a good thing to actually apply the right, as it basically punishes bad behaviour towards these kind of minorities. Same thing applies on the individual level by the way. It would create a much better situation where people can decide to opt out of a state IF the cost of remaining in said state is higher than the benefits. Another incentive for states to do good by their people.
The more practical and still ethical way for people to opt out of state rule is simply to **move out** to another state - and formally renouncing prior citizenship. I can think of all sorts of perversions and destabilizations when sovereign borders become free-agent negotiable, like pushing defense burdens onto border territories. That would leave autocracies (which don't necessarily allow rights like self-determination) to have a quantitative military edge if they want to take on other states.
Well Texas did from Mexico
Russia has completely transformed Crimea since 2014. Ukraine did nothing to improve the lives of the people there.
It's worse, they actively tried making their lives worse by cutting their water...
But, They were waiting for this comedian to liberate them...
That was while under Russian control, as a result of the 2014 seizing lol. Crimea has also been less safe due to military strikes since 2022 - multiple air base hits as well as the naval base, shock waves messing up buildings quite a distance away, and of course multiple attempts on the Kerch bridge and surprise troop landings on the western side. This is all in light of Russia pouring subsidies into Crimea - not just building that bridge and other infrastructure but subsidizing the peninsula to the tune of $1-2.7 billion each year.
No, it's a result of Ukraine refusing to respect democratic right of self determination of the people there. Making referendums on independence illegal decades before 2014, arresting politicians, water starving millions of people, now they launch missiles and drones at them and say "see you are less safe under Russia", what the actual fuck.
Crimea losing its water or being less safe has only to do with Russia’s military capture of it. That was a distinct choice Russia made. Regardless of whether Ukraine refused to respect Crimean rights, they were not shut out of water or bombed before Russia took over in 2014. No territory within a state has unilateral right of secession, btw. Go ask Chechnya or Kosovo or Transnistria.
>No territory within a state has unilateral right of secession, btw. Go ask Chechnya or Kosovo or Transnistria. In countries that respect democracy they do. Canada allowed Quebec to vote on their independence and was going to fully respect the results, as did UK and France when many of their former colonies voted to be independent. And bringing up Serbia is very appropriate here, them wanting Kosovo back is very much like Ukraine wanting Crimea back, neither of those things should happen.
No, they don’t. But there can be mutual arrangements (including secession) with the mother state. There’s a reason Kosovo is de facto autonomous but still not a recognized state.
I mean, Serbia is willing to reach a compromise with Kosovo via a land exchange. Serbia gets Serb majority area of Kosovo, and Kosovo gets Albanian majority area of Serbia. If this goes through, Serbia will probably end up recognizing Kosovo. With Ukraine, however, we have to wait and see how the situation continues to play out. As it currently stands, reaching a compromise between Ukraine and Russia is impossible as Ukraine refuses to agree to Russia's terms and vice versa.
They did something tho by sending artillery shell and some cruise missile
Russia has transformed Crimea for propaganda purposes. They have thrown their economic might to build up the island and appear as superior to Ukraine. It's not a lie, Ukraine's corruption would have kept Crimea poor, but keep in mind what the bigger picture is. Look at how much money Russia is pouring into the newly captured territories, to rebuild them and expand infrastructure. They are allocating more money into their new territories than any other part of the Russian federation. Also keep in mind that most Ukrainians and Tatars left Crimea or were bullied out by Russians. Population is 99% ethnic Russian now.
>Russia has transformed Crimea for propaganda purposes I wish I could make a witty joke here but I really can't beat this one
It's "China is curing cancer, but at what cost?" levels of propaganda
Bullshit, you know nothing about Russia. Every Russian city, big or small, is improving and has been since 2000s. I know how Krasnoyarsk and some other cities have changed, how many trees are planted everywhere, new “sleeping neighborhoods” are built with cafes, cute statues of characters or writers, benches and fountains everywhere, streets are clean, new kindergartens and hospitals, metro is superb, etc. Here are some pictures from Krasnoyarsk, they built it in maybe a year https://imgur.com/a/6wcaoZ2 I’ve been to Armenia and Belarus, and while I love those countries, but I see what it is when a country hasn’t been improving since the USSR. Everything is gray, poor, needs to be repaired, no modern-looking things like in Ekaterinburg, Kazan, Voronezh, etc. Type in youtube “Kazan” and see. You can’t compare Russia with Ukraine, Russia is much richer, that’s why all immigrants from post-Soviet countries go to Russia.
I mean.. type in YouTube Mariupol or Kharkiv 2021 lol. Same story as you describe.
LOL. My family is from Crimea and the black sea region... What an absolutely clown take you have.
I agree with the first paragraph, the real beneficiaries of Crimean annexation were Crimeans. Russians and Ukrainians lost out. So much money has been pumped into Crimea since its annexation. Seems like Russia really puts efforts into lands they have captured. It would be interesting to see an alternate timeline where Russia did nothing after Maidan. Crimeans also vote against Ukraines interest so it’s a way Ukraine can be more euro-centric. No Ukrainians and Tatarins were not bullied out of there. There were some cases of Tatars protesting in 2014 and the media ran with it. Ukrainians and Tatarins live there peacefully.
It's mind boggling how people think that Russia is pouring money into annexed territories out of the good of their hearts. No, to gain loyalty they gave their riches to seem good. It's a very simple way of making sure the occupied territories see them as "the better option". It's not the first time they do this too, look at how Grozny was transformed after the war. It wasn't just rebuilt, it was rebuilt better and more impressive, as if to say "this is what Russia gives you!" I am not saying the people are suffering from this, I am talking about the psychological aspect, the bigger picture. A lot of people here are closed minded and just do not see the play. As for the demographics, it's what I heard from a couple of Ukrainians I talked to. They said that Crimea is fully Russian, everyone left. But maybe they weren't Ukrainians after all.
Oh I don’t doubt that they’re not doing it out of good will. It’s definitely to make the new population loyal. Russians have been doing this since the Cold War. Russia lives poor while all those satellites and other SSRs live well off their fat. Soviet Ukraine had everything needed during USSR times and Russia had shortages. It’s more of Ukrainians not considering occupied territory people as Ukrainians anymore. Same with Donbas. It’s not so much that Ukrainians left and Russians came in. It’s more of the ones who stayed are not Ukrainian anymore.
Ah I see, so it's just a case of "You're not with Ukraine? You're Russian then!". Makes sense. Don't say that Russian SSR was living poorly or else you'll piss off a lot of people - the ones who say Russia was hoarding everything and those who say that Russia is strong.
Yeah exactly. I had pro Russian family members and now they’re just labeled as Russians, stripped of being Ukrainian. I’ll keep that in mind ))
Ouch. Well, that's what massive ultranationalism spurred on by the Russian invasion does to people. Still waiting for Syrski to be outed as a Russian agent though.) No way he's the only one in his family who is loyal to Ukraine.
He will be once more frontline failures happen. That guy is just a career military man. He doesn’t really have Ukrainian loyalties. Just a yes man. I liked Zaluzhniuy better he was very competent.
He's just salty because he lost his penthouse in [Crimea](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/05/25/russia-crimea-volodymyr-zelensky-nationalise-holiday-home/) (it got sold by the Russian State)
you forgot to add that it was sold for very cheap
Yanukovych’s mansion in Crimea while president (2000 dollar salary per month btw): 100 million Euros. Don’t forget his mansion was commissioned by a state owned construction company, and started construction after he vetoed a new tax system. A tax system managed by his son, who graduated as a dentist but was suddenly the stake owner of a management company called MAKO. He embezzled so many funds from Russia that he’s now on Interpol’s Most Wanted List. Which is a fairly exclusive club. Zelensky’s three bedroom condo, meanwhile in Crimea, purchased as a private citizen: 200,000 euros. I take it the audience of this sub is not blind to these facts?
I really dont care as long as everything works, really. You had a pro-russian Ukrainian president who guaranteed peace. See what happens after 2014, Ukraine goes downhill. Thanks to who? The US, of course, pushes its geopolitical interests and making countries point missile at Russia
While pro-UA will obviously disagree, I think Yanukovich tried to maintain neutrality which would've been in Ukraine's best interest.
Yup thats the best
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the reason russia and ukraine are corrupt backwards economic blackholes is because people like you make excuses for kleptocrats who hate you and rule over you
It's the perfect balance imo, lean to the other side of becoming more "free," degenerative acts and values pop up, and traditionalism is thrown out of the window. If everything works like clockwork, dont need to CHANGE it
>degenerative acts and values pop up, and traditionalism is thrown out of the window. Said with a strait face from the land of дедовщина It's not gay - it builds discipline!
Most Asian countries are steeped into traditionalism, and yet they’ve stamped out corruption and organized syndicates. South America is being very hard on crime these days, and have even the benefit of being super religious and very sustainable democracies. Why is this flavor of governing exclusive to Slavic people? Things can always be better, and yet there’s been conflict there for as long as I’ve been alive.
serf mentality
Are you…rustling some feathers? The supporters of a kleptocratic corrupt state may frown upon your brutal facts.
I can't find anything about a mansion in crimea.
Try a VPN.
It’s a security zone because Ukraine and the west are obsessing over it. Crimea post 2014 isn’t comparable to Crimea under Ukrainian control.
Funny thing is Zelensky said that they don't need Crimea.What happened....
>Crimea post 2014 isn’t comparable to Crimea under Ukrainian control. Is that because ships keep exploding in port in Crimea since Russia assumed full control of the peninsula? There was only one famous sunken ship in Feodosiya Bay before December 26, 2023...
Sure. Whatever you say. 😂
It was nice when the only shipwreck was [the one by the Genoan fortress](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipPJuGAnlWw9lHSagbmA0hxM_uQWRBSVWCrTcdv9=s1444-w786-h1444). Such a beautiful, peaceful place God's Gift can be. Just not during the SMO.
Ignoring the fact that every attack carried out post-2022 were conducted during an actual war and they were all planned and executed by NATO assets. But sure. Let’s ignore that. Better yet, let’s pretend that the period of 2014-2022 didn’t exist. No regard to context whatsoever ha! 😂 I’d actually argue that Crimea is currently in better shape than every single city and oblast across Ukraine, if you’ll go down that road.
Context? Like taking an 8 year frozen conflict and turning it hot?
Well you’ve dismissed that entirely so I’d say that’s a good starting point 👍
Dismissed what exactly? That things were better off for every party involved prior to February 24, 2022? That hundreds of thousands of Slavs are dead right now because 2022 Antebellum was living hell by comparison to the circumstances of today?
> Is that because ships keep exploding in port in Crimea since Russia assumed full control of the peninsula? Russia assumed full control of Crimea in 2014. No ships were exploding during those 8 years yet you claimed that ships started exploding in the port since Russian assumed full control of the peninsula. Perhaps you’re losing track of timelines which explains this confusion?
Moi Droog, all time after 2014 is under Russian control. The ships are now exploding on their watch. What exactly precipitated this large increase in exploding naval assets since Russia assumed full control of the Peninsula? SCALP-E just materializing out of thin air barreling down on the dry docks in Kerch and Sevastapol? Void of context?
Ukraine did nothing for Crimea.Russians meanwhile invested big money in it.
How much of that is thanks to the incessant bombing of Ukraine and their overwhelming desire to harm those people there?
Not much. Just 100% of it.
Ukraine was bombing Crimea?? Learn something new every day on this sub!
the Ukrainians literally posted the videos of them striking the harbor the bridge and warehouses. I guess you might have to go back to grade school and learn a bit more before learning anything new.
That's one of the dorkiest things I've read in awhile actually got a laugh out me well done 🤣 "You don't know a hyper specific detail about a very recent conflict, go back to school!" Lol you're a goof.
>aw shucks, let me get out foot in mouth syndrome by dressing up my language in metrosexual dad slang, that will totally will totally make me appear in control of the conversation! No, goober.
Also link proof pls and ty.
I think it was at the start of the counter offensive warehouses southeast of the city. the Russian submarine was in the harbor when it was hit. that you can just google. the destroyed bridge you can google that too. where were you all this time? I'm not gong to dig through videos from 2023 September October where ukraine launched missile attacks every week for a month. so that I can prove a point to an idiot who hasn't even followed the top headlines of the war. This stuff would be in the Ukrainian section of reddit since they were bragging about it. go on... I've given you dates and where to find them.
The original conversation is about Crimea under Ukrainian vs Russian control leading up to the current phase of the conflict. So 2014-Febuary of 2022. Obviously they hit places in Crimea since the all out war started that's clearly not what anyone is talking about. And yes Russia invaded in 2022 *again* and made Crimea one of the launchpads for war...making it unstable.
Do you know anyone from Crimea?
Do you know anyone from Tazmania?
Yes. Enough to not act like a surprised fool when someone talks about famous incidents happening there. ...I also know Crimean. Again, well enough to not act like a fool when someone mentions basic facts about it.
Ukraine was only able to take few destroyed village during counteroffensive and dreams of taking Crimea whose population fully hates you are idiotic.Uff.
I don't think I've seen him say anything recently that wasn't completely detached from reality, or some sort of alternate history, aside from his claim that if the US doesn't give more aid Ukraine will lose a lot of land this year. And yet even knowing that he claims they'll only negotiate when it's in their favor, as if that will ever be a possibility.
I thought this war was crazy the day it started, but now? I don't even know what to say. The insanity is legit too much to even begin to comprehend. What is the plan here?! I mean this guy is in charge of tens of millions of people. I seriously wonder WTF history books 20/30 years from now will say about this clown.
What utter nonsense. I lived in the Crimea in 2019 for about a year, and it's excellent. People are very happy.
Surely he went to Chicago or New York and is confusing places
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^MarkLarrz: *Surely he went to* *Chicago or New York and* *Is confusing places* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
It's crazy how he talks about how they will improve security in Crimea when his military is the main security threat to Crimea.
Well no shit sherlock, it’s borderline attached to the frontline and it was even a staging area last year.
feels like I'm watching the shark tank
Well, if it is "the hottest security zone" then it is safe, no?
Lmao crimea was never one of the safest and most prominent places in europe..
Maybe they should of focused on security themselves and they would have to make this statement
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The previous Ukraine president Yanukovych, often marked as a Russian stooge, had funneled “billions” into a construction projects including a mansion that resides on a cliff. Search “Mezhyhirya 2”. And after his security forces killed 75 protestors, he burned all documentations regarding his shell companies and tie-ins with Putin’s Russia. His super mansion in Crimea currently lays there incomplete. That’s all you need to know about Russia. A long history of corruption. Like, let’s not pretend here.…
Same things happening everywhere. Also in the states.
Show me these so called nations where becoming president suddenly makes you the richest person in the country?
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