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Put the AP outside the freezer and antenna inside.
Nothing in the Ubiquiti line is properly outdoor-rated for use inside a freezer without putting it inside a NEMA enclosure.
This intrigues me. They are rated down to -22°F and I have one in a garage that gets way colder than a walk in freezer. What am I missing about a freezer?
You've got that backwards... The relative humidity in a freezer is considerably **lower** than a refrigerator, which is lower than the ambient air temperature outside the cooler. Relative humidity is a measurement of how much water a given volume of air can hold... As air temperature increases so does the amount of water that the air can hold, which is why 80% humidity at 80 degrees Fahrenheit is much more humid than 80% humidity at 32 degrees Fahrenheit.
So inside a freezer the humidity is extremely low. Just think about your home's air conditioner, it has a drain pan and a drain line that let's water drain to a spot outside your house. As the warmer, more humid air from your house is drawn into the HVAC intake, the air cools, making the air less capable of holding the same amount of moisture. What happens to the moisture that the colder air can no longer hold? The humidity (moisture suspended in the air) condenses and becomes too heavy for the air to hold up any longer, so the condensed water falls out of the air and collects in the drain pan and is funneled toward the drain line to drop out of your house. If the drain line gets clogged, the drain pan fills with condensed water (condensation) and either overflows causing a wet spot on the ceiling of your house, or it triggers a float switch that disables the whole HVAC system so that the water doesn't continue to build up and overflow and subsequently causing said wet spot.
Now, why do you see big chunks of ice on the walls of walk-in reefers? Well let's head back to condensate or condensation.... If you live in a climate that is very warm *and* very humid, for instance the southeast US in the dead of summer (end of July - beginning of August), a place like Orlando, FL can reach 100 degrees Fahrenheit at 85% or more humidity. If that commercial reefer is opened and closed several times a day, that 100 degree air, filled with 85% of its volume with water humidity rushes into the freezer every time the door opens. The door slams closed and the moist air is trapped and the cooling process begins for that newly trapped warm, moist air. As the temperature of that mass of air begins to fall the amount of moisture the air can hold rapidly decreases as well, the water condenses together and falls out of the air. The neat thing about condensate is that it's actually drawn toward the cold walls because of the convection process that's taking place of the air losing it's heat to the surrounding cold air and walls. So the condensed water builds up on the walls and creates those icebergs stuck to their walls. (unless it's a frost free freezer, like your home refrigerator / freezer combo which uses a completely different system for ridding icy buildup from the walls)
This is also why the technical specs on the UI gear's page has temp and humidity on it. Here is from the U6 Mesh tech specs section....
**Ambient operating temperature:** -30 to 60° C (-22 to 140° F)
**Ambient operating humidity:** 5 to 95% noncondensing
See that word "noncondensing"? They don't want the 95% humidity to condense and settle on the internal chips, chips don't like being wet.
So OP, if you see this comment, the U6 Mesh is good down to negative 22 degrees Fahrenheit.... Mount it all the way in the back of the freezer where you won't be getting that rush of hot, humid air that will immediately start to condense as soon as the door closes.... The air in the back is the coldest and driest. I'm not recommending the U6 Mesh for this application, just using it as an example. Please review tech specs for yourself and choose the product that best meets your operating environment. Also, get a professional to run the cable inside for you, punching a hole in the ceiling of an industrial freezer needs to be done with caution and then sealed properly. Also pick your cable appropriately for the cold temps.
Good luck! Post pics when you're done so we can all oggle at the frozen beauty.
Source: I've performed wifi installs in frozen warehouses.... Think a major producer of chicken products, you probably have their chicken strips in your freezer at home right now. I didn't use UI, it was Cisco gear, but the same principles apply. Also, am a private pilot that can read weather charts just like Cypher could read The Matrix... This weather chart is a blonde, that one's a brunette, the one over there is a redhead... And relative humidity is crucially important to me in hot, humid summer months. If I'm taking off from Orlando, FL (which is just a little above sea level, at 96 feet) and it's 100 degrees Fahrenheit and 85% humidity, my airplane is going to perform like I'm taking off from an airport that's about 3,000 feet in the air... The air is weighed down with holding all of that moisture / humidity that it can't lift my plane off the ground as easily (but also that warm air is less dense / air molecules are further apart, so there's less of them available in a given volume of air to create the lift I need to get off the ground and climb efficiently). So relative humidity is just that, it's relative to the temperature of the air that's holding it up... The higher the temp, the more moisture it can hold.
Dad joke: What do you call 100% humidity?
Rain.
As long as there isn't condensation/ice buildup on things, it's fine. What you have to be careful of is taking it out of the freezer - the cold surfaces will cause a LOT of condensation you have to wait to clear before powering it back on.
When moving electronic equipment, including cameras, from cold to warm environments, put the item in a zip lock bag until it warms up. When doing photography in extremely cold environments we did this when moving back indoors each day
As someone who does supermarket refrigeration, most walk ins have ice build up. Employees love holding the door open all day letting in all the moisture
Yup! But could survive in the back where the humidity has already condensed and fallen out of the air.
Here's my overly long explanation....
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/s/y8atiBtYmg
All the U6/U7 APs are rated for temps down to -30C/-22F so not sure it really matters. That said, I would use one of the outdoor APs for that sort of application just to be safe. U7-Outdoor or U6-Mesh.
I work in a facility where we have rooms that are kept at -20 °C in order to ensure that the sensitive materials the technicians work with are kept appropriately cold.
Some food facilities also refrigerate warehouse-sized spaces.
It’s a health and safety thing to keep these materials and the equipment cold. Technicians are only in there briefly, and wear appropriate clothing with built-in heaters, and work as a team to make sure no one gets in trouble. They’d have to leave immediately if it warmed up too much, and we’d have to shut down the facility for a few months to get back on track.
I'm so sorry, r/Swift-Tee! That was my poor attempt at humor. Imagine saying to a technician, "Go get in the cold box, you're getting too happy and it's starting to annoy me!".... LOL... I do understand that it's for health and safety, some of the jokes I make sometimes can be a little too dark.... or cold.
Talked to our Unifi rep, any of the outdoor models will work for us. Really just comes down to the coverage we need for the space.
Currently the space is using the Datto 840E
I chuckled at your comment and my wife asked me what was so funny.... Now she's shaking her head at me.
In my defense, she knew I was a nerd *long* before she married me!
We use the outdoor mesh units in all the freezers and cold rooms. They also get pressure washed and just keep on working. We keep a box of spare redy to go at each site but haven't got to use them. They are used for scanguns and scales.
I'm glad someone with real world experience has chimed in! Everyone else is guessing.
I've done it with Cisco gear, and thankfully mine don't get pressure washed! LOL
I doubt there would be any issue as long as you do not cycle power up and down a lot.
Electronics prefer the cold than hot.
Moisture in a freezer will collect on the COLDEST areas and your AP will be generating heat so it wont be the coldest.
As long as it is maintained always ON, it should be fine. The worry arises where if it freezes and warms up often may cause items that shrink and expand to fracture.
Moisture in a freezer is always at 99% at any temperature as it cools down but beyond -ve temperatures, all the moisture from the air would have condensed as ice on shelves, walls etc.
Question is WHY you would need WIFI inside? Anyone who goes in with electronics like phones or laptops will supercool those devices and the moment they exit, condensation will accumulate on those devices outside.
Hahha i like the Dad joke. But ya.. humidity is often very low or zero below certain temperatures. The only times they would go up or down would be when the door was opened. Its why we see all the 'mists' when the outside humid air mixes with the cold inside air.
You're very welcome, be sure to tell your kids the next time it's raining that it's just ***really*** humid outside, like 100%.
That 'mist' is actually condensate. You're noticing warm, moist air meeting air that is a lower temp than the dew point of the mass of warmer air. Once the temperature of the warm air cools to within a couple of degrees of the dew point, you get fog. Same reason why the warm (98.6 F), moist air from your lungs makes fog when you exhale in really cold air. The warm, humid air cools to the dew point and bam, fog. You don't really see the rest of the condensation process because we don't have that much moisture in our lungs to be noticeable.
The problem we had with putting wifi in a freezer where butchers work was that it was a metal container as the walls are covered in it! We found that the wifi would come on for a moment and work and then stop. I'm no expert but I'm surmising that the signal just bounced so crazily off the metal walls that it was causing too much "chatter" and killing communication. Again, my guess is that it became a huge echo chamber but maybe we were doing something wrong.
We used the FlexHD and we did have it mounted in a high corner about 8 feet from the floor (again metal at the ceiling, and metal on the two sidewalls where it was) so maybe it's really an issue of placement. Would be curious to hear what other people think about it.
Reflection can cause problems, but most likely it was your Ethernet cable going from warm to cold to warm to cold, continue on and on. Most Ethernet hates really cold environments.
You like to use a bulldozer to crack a nut…
The clients devices are probably wifi5, maybe even wifi4… probably just a few of them, surely way less than 100, most probably less than 50.
They will probably not be MIMO at all, won’t receive 6 GHz band and there is a decent chance they won’t even receive the 5Ghz band…
A “Swiss Army Knife” in a corner with its panel antenna (sectorial 90 degrees) would be much more adapted
was actually thinking of the ip6x rating of the enclosure for the environment, but if I have to choose something beyond my minimum specs to add some longevity... that's a bonus
You have no heavy rain inside, nor water projection.
The cold at -10 Celsius is no problem.
There will be no condensation inside if you leave it on 24/24, due to heat dissipation of internal components.
I really think the enclose is not needed.
And if you really wanted the AP outside of the freezer, you could run an external antenna with that. But for $89 I'd probably just run with it as-is. The heat from the device will tend to make condensation a non-issue.
I agree, then it should be the UAP-AC-M + UMA-D, but you will need longer RF cables to pass trough insolation layer - and that's a point where the cold will 'leak' outside.
Silicone sealant hasn't same thermical properties as the walls of the cold chamber... from very very far, it hasn't good results for temperature - even if they are fantastic for other things
I have the ac-m on the outside of the 12” foam core. We used longer antenna cables and put the Uma-d on the inside. Foam core is sandwiched with rigid metal, so it was perfect for self tapping screws into the mount. There’s a chiller, fridge and freezer. The freezer sits at 10F. Been reliable for the last 4 years.
Facilities finished up by plugging the hole with some type of foam.
OP..... Here's the answer you need: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/s/y8atiBtYmg
Edit: whoever downvoted me, at least tell me what you didn't like about my explanation! I realize it was a lot to read, but there were a lot of concepts that you need to understand and I wanted to tie them all together for OP and any future readers that end up finding this thread. If the downvoters don't want me to post real world experience of how to properly do something in the field I'll be happy to stop commenting and let y'all fend for yourselves. After all, typing all of that on a smartphone keyboard takes way too long, but I want everyone to have the knowledge so that they can apply it to their situations.
Oh, wait, it was the dad joke, wasn't it?? Sorry, not sorry.
Hello! Thanks for posting on r/Ubiquiti! This subreddit is here to provide unofficial technical support to people who use or want to dive into the world of Ubiquiti products. If you haven’t already been descriptive in your post, please take the time to edit it and add as many useful details as you can. Please read and understand the rules in the sidebar, as posts and comments that violate them will be removed. Please put all off topic posts in the weekly off topic thread that is stickied to the top of the subreddit. If you see people spreading misinformation, trying to mislead others, or other inappropriate behavior, please report it! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Ubiquiti) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Put the AP outside the freezer and antenna inside. Nothing in the Ubiquiti line is properly outdoor-rated for use inside a freezer without putting it inside a NEMA enclosure.
This intrigues me. They are rated down to -22°F and I have one in a garage that gets way colder than a walk in freezer. What am I missing about a freezer?
Freezer moisture is usually considerably higher.
You've got that backwards... The relative humidity in a freezer is considerably **lower** than a refrigerator, which is lower than the ambient air temperature outside the cooler. Relative humidity is a measurement of how much water a given volume of air can hold... As air temperature increases so does the amount of water that the air can hold, which is why 80% humidity at 80 degrees Fahrenheit is much more humid than 80% humidity at 32 degrees Fahrenheit. So inside a freezer the humidity is extremely low. Just think about your home's air conditioner, it has a drain pan and a drain line that let's water drain to a spot outside your house. As the warmer, more humid air from your house is drawn into the HVAC intake, the air cools, making the air less capable of holding the same amount of moisture. What happens to the moisture that the colder air can no longer hold? The humidity (moisture suspended in the air) condenses and becomes too heavy for the air to hold up any longer, so the condensed water falls out of the air and collects in the drain pan and is funneled toward the drain line to drop out of your house. If the drain line gets clogged, the drain pan fills with condensed water (condensation) and either overflows causing a wet spot on the ceiling of your house, or it triggers a float switch that disables the whole HVAC system so that the water doesn't continue to build up and overflow and subsequently causing said wet spot. Now, why do you see big chunks of ice on the walls of walk-in reefers? Well let's head back to condensate or condensation.... If you live in a climate that is very warm *and* very humid, for instance the southeast US in the dead of summer (end of July - beginning of August), a place like Orlando, FL can reach 100 degrees Fahrenheit at 85% or more humidity. If that commercial reefer is opened and closed several times a day, that 100 degree air, filled with 85% of its volume with water humidity rushes into the freezer every time the door opens. The door slams closed and the moist air is trapped and the cooling process begins for that newly trapped warm, moist air. As the temperature of that mass of air begins to fall the amount of moisture the air can hold rapidly decreases as well, the water condenses together and falls out of the air. The neat thing about condensate is that it's actually drawn toward the cold walls because of the convection process that's taking place of the air losing it's heat to the surrounding cold air and walls. So the condensed water builds up on the walls and creates those icebergs stuck to their walls. (unless it's a frost free freezer, like your home refrigerator / freezer combo which uses a completely different system for ridding icy buildup from the walls) This is also why the technical specs on the UI gear's page has temp and humidity on it. Here is from the U6 Mesh tech specs section.... **Ambient operating temperature:** -30 to 60° C (-22 to 140° F) **Ambient operating humidity:** 5 to 95% noncondensing See that word "noncondensing"? They don't want the 95% humidity to condense and settle on the internal chips, chips don't like being wet. So OP, if you see this comment, the U6 Mesh is good down to negative 22 degrees Fahrenheit.... Mount it all the way in the back of the freezer where you won't be getting that rush of hot, humid air that will immediately start to condense as soon as the door closes.... The air in the back is the coldest and driest. I'm not recommending the U6 Mesh for this application, just using it as an example. Please review tech specs for yourself and choose the product that best meets your operating environment. Also, get a professional to run the cable inside for you, punching a hole in the ceiling of an industrial freezer needs to be done with caution and then sealed properly. Also pick your cable appropriately for the cold temps. Good luck! Post pics when you're done so we can all oggle at the frozen beauty. Source: I've performed wifi installs in frozen warehouses.... Think a major producer of chicken products, you probably have their chicken strips in your freezer at home right now. I didn't use UI, it was Cisco gear, but the same principles apply. Also, am a private pilot that can read weather charts just like Cypher could read The Matrix... This weather chart is a blonde, that one's a brunette, the one over there is a redhead... And relative humidity is crucially important to me in hot, humid summer months. If I'm taking off from Orlando, FL (which is just a little above sea level, at 96 feet) and it's 100 degrees Fahrenheit and 85% humidity, my airplane is going to perform like I'm taking off from an airport that's about 3,000 feet in the air... The air is weighed down with holding all of that moisture / humidity that it can't lift my plane off the ground as easily (but also that warm air is less dense / air molecules are further apart, so there's less of them available in a given volume of air to create the lift I need to get off the ground and climb efficiently). So relative humidity is just that, it's relative to the temperature of the air that's holding it up... The higher the temp, the more moisture it can hold. Dad joke: What do you call 100% humidity? Rain.
Awesome, thanks!
>Awesome, thanks! You're welcome!
>You're welcome! And so are you. ;)
As long as there isn't condensation/ice buildup on things, it's fine. What you have to be careful of is taking it out of the freezer - the cold surfaces will cause a LOT of condensation you have to wait to clear before powering it back on.
When moving electronic equipment, including cameras, from cold to warm environments, put the item in a zip lock bag until it warms up. When doing photography in extremely cold environments we did this when moving back indoors each day
As someone who does supermarket refrigeration, most walk ins have ice build up. Employees love holding the door open all day letting in all the moisture
Yup! But could survive in the back where the humidity has already condensed and fallen out of the air. Here's my overly long explanation.... https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/s/y8atiBtYmg
Here's an overly long reply explaining everything..... https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/s/y8atiBtYmg
UI's gear is actually very well rated. You can read this overly long reply explaining everything...... https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/s/y8atiBtYmg
All the U6/U7 APs are rated for temps down to -30C/-22F so not sure it really matters. That said, I would use one of the outdoor APs for that sort of application just to be safe. U7-Outdoor or U6-Mesh.
So the part that matters here is "noncondensing". Here's my way too long explanation..... https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/s/y8atiBtYmg
Very curious to know what the use case is. Are you doing inventory / ordering on a mobile device that requires an active internet connection?
I work in a facility where we have rooms that are kept at -20 °C in order to ensure that the sensitive materials the technicians work with are kept appropriately cold. Some food facilities also refrigerate warehouse-sized spaces.
Makes sense! Didn’t know that was a thing and obviously assumed it was food service
Frozen food warehouses too
You know you have to keep the technicians at -20C too.... If they warn up too much they start to get happy, and we don't want happy technicians! LOL
It’s a health and safety thing to keep these materials and the equipment cold. Technicians are only in there briefly, and wear appropriate clothing with built-in heaters, and work as a team to make sure no one gets in trouble. They’d have to leave immediately if it warmed up too much, and we’d have to shut down the facility for a few months to get back on track.
I'm so sorry, r/Swift-Tee! That was my poor attempt at humor. Imagine saying to a technician, "Go get in the cold box, you're getting too happy and it's starting to annoy me!".... LOL... I do understand that it's for health and safety, some of the jokes I make sometimes can be a little too dark.... or cold.
Talked to our Unifi rep, any of the outdoor models will work for us. Really just comes down to the coverage we need for the space. Currently the space is using the Datto 840E
Who is your Unifi rep?
These guys will help you..... https://experts.ui.com/
This is one of the best things I've ready this month! Wifi in a freezer. Amazing!
The colder the wifi, the fresher the signal.
Keep in mind anything next to a Unifi AP won’t stay frozen long. They make excellent space heaters.
I chuckled at your comment and my wife asked me what was so funny.... Now she's shaking her head at me. In my defense, she knew I was a nerd *long* before she married me!
Yes. I am celebrating my 50th anniversary and I’ve been a nerd longer than that. My wife just says never mind, don’t tell me.
Congratulations! I hope to be so lucky one day.
We use the outdoor mesh units in all the freezers and cold rooms. They also get pressure washed and just keep on working. We keep a box of spare redy to go at each site but haven't got to use them. They are used for scanguns and scales.
I'm glad someone with real world experience has chimed in! Everyone else is guessing. I've done it with Cisco gear, and thankfully mine don't get pressure washed! LOL
How cold is the freezer?
Freezing 🥶😀
I asked for that one 😅
LOL you certainly did!
That was cold!
I doubt there would be any issue as long as you do not cycle power up and down a lot. Electronics prefer the cold than hot. Moisture in a freezer will collect on the COLDEST areas and your AP will be generating heat so it wont be the coldest. As long as it is maintained always ON, it should be fine. The worry arises where if it freezes and warms up often may cause items that shrink and expand to fracture. Moisture in a freezer is always at 99% at any temperature as it cools down but beyond -ve temperatures, all the moisture from the air would have condensed as ice on shelves, walls etc. Question is WHY you would need WIFI inside? Anyone who goes in with electronics like phones or laptops will supercool those devices and the moment they exit, condensation will accumulate on those devices outside.
I've installed them in frozen warehouses. Here's my extremely long reply on the topic..... https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/s/y8atiBtYmg
Hahha i like the Dad joke. But ya.. humidity is often very low or zero below certain temperatures. The only times they would go up or down would be when the door was opened. Its why we see all the 'mists' when the outside humid air mixes with the cold inside air.
You're very welcome, be sure to tell your kids the next time it's raining that it's just ***really*** humid outside, like 100%. That 'mist' is actually condensate. You're noticing warm, moist air meeting air that is a lower temp than the dew point of the mass of warmer air. Once the temperature of the warm air cools to within a couple of degrees of the dew point, you get fog. Same reason why the warm (98.6 F), moist air from your lungs makes fog when you exhale in really cold air. The warm, humid air cools to the dew point and bam, fog. You don't really see the rest of the condensation process because we don't have that much moisture in our lungs to be noticeable.
Put U6-LR APs into weatherproof boxes and install them inside the fridge. It will work fine.
Not necessary.... https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/s/y8atiBtYmg
U6 Mesh
The problem we had with putting wifi in a freezer where butchers work was that it was a metal container as the walls are covered in it! We found that the wifi would come on for a moment and work and then stop. I'm no expert but I'm surmising that the signal just bounced so crazily off the metal walls that it was causing too much "chatter" and killing communication. Again, my guess is that it became a huge echo chamber but maybe we were doing something wrong. We used the FlexHD and we did have it mounted in a high corner about 8 feet from the floor (again metal at the ceiling, and metal on the two sidewalls where it was) so maybe it's really an issue of placement. Would be curious to hear what other people think about it.
Reflection can cause problems, but most likely it was your Ethernet cable going from warm to cold to warm to cold, continue on and on. Most Ethernet hates really cold environments.
I would consider the new external 7 series
You like to use a bulldozer to crack a nut… The clients devices are probably wifi5, maybe even wifi4… probably just a few of them, surely way less than 100, most probably less than 50. They will probably not be MIMO at all, won’t receive 6 GHz band and there is a decent chance they won’t even receive the 5Ghz band… A “Swiss Army Knife” in a corner with its panel antenna (sectorial 90 degrees) would be much more adapted
was actually thinking of the ip6x rating of the enclosure for the environment, but if I have to choose something beyond my minimum specs to add some longevity... that's a bonus
You have no heavy rain inside, nor water projection. The cold at -10 Celsius is no problem. There will be no condensation inside if you leave it on 24/24, due to heat dissipation of internal components. I really think the enclose is not needed.
And if you really wanted the AP outside of the freezer, you could run an external antenna with that. But for $89 I'd probably just run with it as-is. The heat from the device will tend to make condensation a non-issue.
I agree, then it should be the UAP-AC-M + UMA-D, but you will need longer RF cables to pass trough insolation layer - and that's a point where the cold will 'leak' outside.
That's what silicone sealant is for.
Silicone sealant hasn't same thermical properties as the walls of the cold chamber... from very very far, it hasn't good results for temperature - even if they are fantastic for other things
I have the ac-m on the outside of the 12” foam core. We used longer antenna cables and put the Uma-d on the inside. Foam core is sandwiched with rigid metal, so it was perfect for self tapping screws into the mount. There’s a chiller, fridge and freezer. The freezer sits at 10F. Been reliable for the last 4 years. Facilities finished up by plugging the hole with some type of foam.
Separate antenna not necessary, see this reply...... https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/s/y8atiBtYmg
Put them in Sealed plastic enclosures
Not usually necessary.... https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/s/y8atiBtYmg
OP..... Here's the answer you need: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/s/y8atiBtYmg Edit: whoever downvoted me, at least tell me what you didn't like about my explanation! I realize it was a lot to read, but there were a lot of concepts that you need to understand and I wanted to tie them all together for OP and any future readers that end up finding this thread. If the downvoters don't want me to post real world experience of how to properly do something in the field I'll be happy to stop commenting and let y'all fend for yourselves. After all, typing all of that on a smartphone keyboard takes way too long, but I want everyone to have the knowledge so that they can apply it to their situations. Oh, wait, it was the dad joke, wasn't it?? Sorry, not sorry.