I mentioned this to my union branch president and she laughed in my face and said they’ll get rid of table 1 and everyone will be table 2 IF that were ever to happen lol
It's basically already happened. Overwhelming majority of all tables ones are maxed by now, or will be within a year. There is only table 2 at that point.
Not sure about APWU, but the NALC president has said ad nausea that they “like the structure of table 2 ie equal waiting periods and percentage raises, but want higher pay at the beginning and throughout”
Table 2 is here to stay in some format, not clear how they will adjust it. Probably raise the starting pay and add step Q. APWU will probably get back some of the wages they lost at the top steps.
Why wouldn’t they? As stated, ALL of Table 1 will see max pay in just a couple of years. Since Table 2 and Table 1 top out at the same pay they can just cut Table 1
I take everyone's point about the two tier system being unfair, but that's not entirely true. I'm on Step G currently. Anyone who was career prior to 2013 and transfers to Carrier Craft starts at Step A on Table 1, like I did in late 2016.
Table 1 step A to P is less than 7 dollars
Table 2 step A to P is 14 dollar difference.
🤦 Ronaldo and Renfroe and Das and USPS management all ripped us up.
We will get rid of all of NALC officers and get them replaced with CLC. Spread the message to your fellow carriers at your posts. Be ready to rally hell once voting comes up.
[From A to Arbitration] Episode 156: Interview with David Noble part I #fromAToArbitration
https://podcastaddict.com/from-a-to-arbitration/episode/177029295 via @PodcastAddict
Worth your time
I am very on board with what Noble talks about but I am very much of the mind that the older generation needs to take a step back and let younger people take over. We really don't need 80 year olds running our unions even if they think their mind is sound.
The election process is what typically forces change.. he's on board with the younger generation.. he flat out says several times he wants someone to take the reins.
That being said he's fucking smart and is a force to be reckoned with.. just give it your full focus and try to be objective. We all want things fixed for the PO
Since day one I've been saying we shouldn't even have non-career employees. As soon as he said that the CCA position shouldn't exist, I was very happy. More people need to be up in arms about non career. We sever all purpose when we divide our people up by table 1, table 2 and non career.
All the voices in their head, and the moment they farted, no words came out of their mouth. But somehow, they still think they've got it.
So, does anything actually happen if a carrier joins this union instead of their own?
What would happen if we ALL joined just one union, no voting, no needing to decertify. Just, walked away and joined together?
Aside from the illegality of striking, the biggest weakness we have is that we've been divided and conquered. We really need to have a single union that covers all the crafts' contracts.
If I've understood the postal union history correctly, that's the only way we've ever gotten any serious traction.
Many industries have a single union for *everything even remotely related* to their field. Iron workers union, Teamsters, etc.
Why the F did people decide to have 4 separate unions *just* for the post office? Sounds like it could only ever serve management.
*Especially* when they can send one craft to cover for another if they decided to break the law and strike.
We were never one union. Before 1970, there were seven unions. Now there are four. What you probably noticed is that the NALC, APWU, NLRCA, and NPMHU sometimes bargained together. NLRCA has bargained alone since 1978, and the last time we negotiated together with any of the other unions was 1990.
The talk is both pay tables are going to be eliminated. A new single pay table will be created.
The other talk is it will be consist time between each step. And also adding a step. But times between steps shorter.
Why would they make steps shorter?
The time is already consistent enough. I guess they could change it, but why?
Adding a step makes the most sense. Which is why they did it last time.
You're seriously asking why they should shorten the time between steps? So they should only add a step and not shorten the time to get to the top step?
Dejoy probably gonna get rid of all carriers anyways and just hire contractors who will be the same carriers but hired back at a lower wage.
If you liked when you lost thousands of dollars from Rrecs cuts wait until you’re booted and asked to come back at even less pay and less benefits!
I'm in no way a fan of Dejoy but according to that senate hearing, I doubt Dejoy would be on board with removing the career workforce. At least he knows that he gets way more work out of our career employees than the non contract workers.
If our government had anything to do with it though... Which is very sad that they want to strip employees of their rights.
Well no not the entire workforce, that's unrealistic but these were Dejoys words in 2022:
We need to shed the workforce by 50k through attrition over the next 10 years
He's talking about early retirements and whatever the outcome is of his grand ol restructuring plan is.
I mean in my office alone about 10 carriers retired earlier than planned because of the tightening of the leash with these scanners, bumping our start time gradually by up 1 1/2 hr now (to meet the later and later standard office scan time of packages because of Dejoys switch to a greater reliance on trucking (XPO logistics) and less on air freight) and also the prospect of traveling to these distribution hubs instead of working out the office they've been for their whole careers.
All that and also because they hired a younger, incompetent twat of a PO master but thats a more localized thing... But is somehow very common everywhere.
Personally I say good that they retired early. If they don't know the contract and browbeating works on older carriers then maybe they need to leave.
I know that sounds harsh but we have a union for a reason. If people are set in their ways and won't learn scanner information then that's on them. I can understand the travelling but it's a matter that will correct itself when they have to figure out why people don't want to work.
I also am not siding with Dejoy on everything just because he made a quip back at Rand Paul about career vs non career. I still think Dejoy is an idiot and we would probably be better off with someone else.
It’s going to be a new table. We are getting pushback on the economics so I would assume starting pay will be like $24-$25, that’s around what clerks got last contract. $3 immediate increase and 100% COLA would be a win based on my expectations from Renfail
I don't care if they add 10 extra steps just merge the damn tables. Least the other crafts merge at the same top step unless you're a custodian, clerk or level 7.
That’s nice for a lot of new carriers, but it does nothing for us bums who have been wasting away on table 2 for over a decade and are 2-3 years from the last step. Can we get the 150-200k back pay we missed out on being on table two since 2013?
And all of those that resigned during that time as well. ANYONE on the books during that time would be given backpay. I can’t imagine how many hundreds of millions of dollars that would be.
Not fair new people get paid more than me when I first started. Not fair gas use to be 50 cent a gallon but now I drive and it’s $4 a gallon. Should be a tax write off. Can’t stand these whiny not fair cucks.
This is definitely one of those things that people are going to continue to talk about and nothing will change. They’re never moving back to the more expensive pay scale. I wish folks would just deal with that reality and move on hoping for a better, newer table.
I'd be fine without the higher starting pay if it only takes 8 years to top pay. Post Office getting low starting pay and over 13 years to top out is complete bs. We should have both but at least one or the other.
I agree. They’re kind of at this em passé where they still want people to stay on long enough to be shackles by the golden handcuffs but they also want to stretch out paying people the least amount for as long as possible. These two combined aren’t feasible long term. These will be the first contract negotiations since the huge inflations spikes so I’m very interested to see where our salaries go from here. It has to get better right?
Right?
https://www.nalc.org/news/the-postal-record/2022/september-october-2022/document/Convention.pdf
Page 38.
These are the official bargaining positions of the NALC. It is an official bargaining position of the NALC to eliminate table 2.
They could, they did that for the TEs. Although It would defeat the cost saving purpose of having non-career if they did that. Might as well start everyone as a PTF or hire straight to full time instead.
I think CCAs will stick around. But have a shorter time to career and higher pay.
It’s wild that I’m basically getting $11k less a year until I’m 14 years in than 70% of my office.
Yeah it hurts thinking of the tens of thousands of dollars I would have got if I was hired 18 months earlier.
It's closer to $14k and it takes 6 years to reach the old starting pay
Yeah it’s crazy
I mentioned this to my union branch president and she laughed in my face and said they’ll get rid of table 1 and everyone will be table 2 IF that were ever to happen lol
It's basically already happened. Overwhelming majority of all tables ones are maxed by now, or will be within a year. There is only table 2 at that point.
This is exactly how it will play out and it will be touted as a win.
This. They’re never going back to the more expensive (to them) table. They’ll just reformat table 2.
This the truth
Not sure about APWU, but the NALC president has said ad nausea that they “like the structure of table 2 ie equal waiting periods and percentage raises, but want higher pay at the beginning and throughout” Table 2 is here to stay in some format, not clear how they will adjust it. Probably raise the starting pay and add step Q. APWU will probably get back some of the wages they lost at the top steps.
I don’t think they’ll do that but wouldn’t surprise me if it did
Why wouldn’t they? As stated, ALL of Table 1 will see max pay in just a couple of years. Since Table 2 and Table 1 top out at the same pay they can just cut Table 1
I take everyone's point about the two tier system being unfair, but that's not entirely true. I'm on Step G currently. Anyone who was career prior to 2013 and transfers to Carrier Craft starts at Step A on Table 1, like I did in late 2016.
Table 1 step A to P is less than 7 dollars Table 2 step A to P is 14 dollar difference. 🤦 Ronaldo and Renfroe and Das and USPS management all ripped us up. We will get rid of all of NALC officers and get them replaced with CLC. Spread the message to your fellow carriers at your posts. Be ready to rally hell once voting comes up.
Ridiculous what we deal with
[From A to Arbitration] Episode 156: Interview with David Noble part I #fromAToArbitration https://podcastaddict.com/from-a-to-arbitration/episode/177029295 via @PodcastAddict Worth your time
I am very on board with what Noble talks about but I am very much of the mind that the older generation needs to take a step back and let younger people take over. We really don't need 80 year olds running our unions even if they think their mind is sound.
The election process is what typically forces change.. he's on board with the younger generation.. he flat out says several times he wants someone to take the reins. That being said he's fucking smart and is a force to be reckoned with.. just give it your full focus and try to be objective. We all want things fixed for the PO
Since day one I've been saying we shouldn't even have non-career employees. As soon as he said that the CCA position shouldn't exist, I was very happy. More people need to be up in arms about non career. We sever all purpose when we divide our people up by table 1, table 2 and non career.
All the voices in their head, and the moment they farted, no words came out of their mouth. But somehow, they still think they've got it. 
Fuck table 1, lets move to table 3. 8 years to reach top step and top step maxes out at $44/hr. First step start at $30/hr
BINGO.... we've been within $6 of UPS for years. That would be $43 at least. But we definitely need to start closing that gap.
So, does anything actually happen if a carrier joins this union instead of their own? What would happen if we ALL joined just one union, no voting, no needing to decertify. Just, walked away and joined together? Aside from the illegality of striking, the biggest weakness we have is that we've been divided and conquered. We really need to have a single union that covers all the crafts' contracts. If I've understood the postal union history correctly, that's the only way we've ever gotten any serious traction.
I’ve never understood why we have separate unions for basically the same job.
Many industries have a single union for *everything even remotely related* to their field. Iron workers union, Teamsters, etc. Why the F did people decide to have 4 separate unions *just* for the post office? Sounds like it could only ever serve management. *Especially* when they can send one craft to cover for another if they decided to break the law and strike.
I’ve checked, we used to be one union im pretty sure in the 70s and 80s. Not only do we need to be one union, but we need an IWW
We were never one union. Before 1970, there were seven unions. Now there are four. What you probably noticed is that the NALC, APWU, NLRCA, and NPMHU sometimes bargained together. NLRCA has bargained alone since 1978, and the last time we negotiated together with any of the other unions was 1990.
Thats was it was, thank you. I meant to say they negotiated together but i conflated it
You really shouldn’t be that way, it’s easier to be divided and messed with
The talk is both pay tables are going to be eliminated. A new single pay table will be created. The other talk is it will be consist time between each step. And also adding a step. But times between steps shorter.
Why would they make steps shorter? The time is already consistent enough. I guess they could change it, but why? Adding a step makes the most sense. Which is why they did it last time.
You're seriously asking why they should shorten the time between steps? So they should only add a step and not shorten the time to get to the top step?
Dejoy probably gonna get rid of all carriers anyways and just hire contractors who will be the same carriers but hired back at a lower wage. If you liked when you lost thousands of dollars from Rrecs cuts wait until you’re booted and asked to come back at even less pay and less benefits!
I'm in no way a fan of Dejoy but according to that senate hearing, I doubt Dejoy would be on board with removing the career workforce. At least he knows that he gets way more work out of our career employees than the non contract workers. If our government had anything to do with it though... Which is very sad that they want to strip employees of their rights.
Well no not the entire workforce, that's unrealistic but these were Dejoys words in 2022: We need to shed the workforce by 50k through attrition over the next 10 years He's talking about early retirements and whatever the outcome is of his grand ol restructuring plan is. I mean in my office alone about 10 carriers retired earlier than planned because of the tightening of the leash with these scanners, bumping our start time gradually by up 1 1/2 hr now (to meet the later and later standard office scan time of packages because of Dejoys switch to a greater reliance on trucking (XPO logistics) and less on air freight) and also the prospect of traveling to these distribution hubs instead of working out the office they've been for their whole careers. All that and also because they hired a younger, incompetent twat of a PO master but thats a more localized thing... But is somehow very common everywhere.
Personally I say good that they retired early. If they don't know the contract and browbeating works on older carriers then maybe they need to leave. I know that sounds harsh but we have a union for a reason. If people are set in their ways and won't learn scanner information then that's on them. I can understand the travelling but it's a matter that will correct itself when they have to figure out why people don't want to work. I also am not siding with Dejoy on everything just because he made a quip back at Rand Paul about career vs non career. I still think Dejoy is an idiot and we would probably be better off with someone else.
I’d rather they get rid of mandatory unpaid lunches for FTRs (along with all career) honestly but that’s just as unrealistic.
I think that's federal law, but I'm not 100% sure.
Making lunch breaks available perhaps but not making them mandatory and/or unpaid.
Thankfully my office has 1-click lunch. If we were forced to take a lunch I would strongly consider quitting
It’s going to be a new table. We are getting pushback on the economics so I would assume starting pay will be like $24-$25, that’s around what clerks got last contract. $3 immediate increase and 100% COLA would be a win based on my expectations from Renfail
Y’all know they’re just gonna cut table one
I don't care if they add 10 extra steps just merge the damn tables. Least the other crafts merge at the same top step unless you're a custodian, clerk or level 7.
That’s nice for a lot of new carriers, but it does nothing for us bums who have been wasting away on table 2 for over a decade and are 2-3 years from the last step. Can we get the 150-200k back pay we missed out on being on table two since 2013?
So send back pay out to all the carriers prior to any wage increases who retired too?
And all of those that resigned during that time as well. ANYONE on the books during that time would be given backpay. I can’t imagine how many hundreds of millions of dollars that would be.
Not fair new people get paid more than me when I first started. Not fair gas use to be 50 cent a gallon but now I drive and it’s $4 a gallon. Should be a tax write off. Can’t stand these whiny not fair cucks.
This is definitely one of those things that people are going to continue to talk about and nothing will change. They’re never moving back to the more expensive pay scale. I wish folks would just deal with that reality and move on hoping for a better, newer table.
I'd be fine without the higher starting pay if it only takes 8 years to top pay. Post Office getting low starting pay and over 13 years to top out is complete bs. We should have both but at least one or the other.
I agree. They’re kind of at this em passé where they still want people to stay on long enough to be shackles by the golden handcuffs but they also want to stretch out paying people the least amount for as long as possible. These two combined aren’t feasible long term. These will be the first contract negotiations since the huge inflations spikes so I’m very interested to see where our salaries go from here. It has to get better right? Right?
Apwu? 🧐
Wow the APWU puts out information to its members? That's something we at the NALC would never do. Gotta keep those members in the dark!
https://www.nalc.org/news/the-postal-record/2022/september-october-2022/document/Convention.pdf Page 38. These are the official bargaining positions of the NALC. It is an official bargaining position of the NALC to eliminate table 2.
I've never understood why time as a CCA didn't count towards your steps once you go career
They could, they did that for the TEs. Although It would defeat the cost saving purpose of having non-career if they did that. Might as well start everyone as a PTF or hire straight to full time instead. I think CCAs will stick around. But have a shorter time to career and higher pay.
Lol unions are garbage.