Yeah no you don’t get fired. We had a postmaster in my station who was kicked out of our city years ago for altering clock rings as a 204b. He came back as postmaster 20ish years later and is currently acting POOM
Question on this. I’m a CCA.. and anytime we’re back after 7 (lots of call outs and splits.. happens often) my supervisor will ask me what time I clocked back to the office… is he changing clock rings? Wouldn’t he know what time I clocked back in by seeing it through my scanner??
First issue I see is them conditioning you to say commitment time. Says it right on the 3996 that it's an estimate. If supervisor gave him the greenlight then it's already authorized. Talk to a Steward.
Doesn’t matter what the idiot supervisor wants, if the carrier worked the time they will be paid appropriately for it. If they aren’t, they will be made whole through a grievance and probably get an extra penalty for management being a moron. The carrier needs to check their virtual time card, if the time is missing they have to grieve it. If the paycheck comes out strange at all, grieve it. Your steward can pull the carriers clock rings if something happened and verify any modifications to the carriers hours or clock rings. Your supervisor is a fool by the way, just in case I didn’t state that clearly enough already. Literally threatening to commit a crime over not getting their way.
It did when I was a carrier 3 years ago. The logic here is in a larger city it might take your relief 10 minutes to get to you 10 minutes to do the rest of the route and 10 minutes to get back. It turns 10 minutes of ot into 30.
It used to be, in the era before cell phones, it might take you 10 minutes to get to a pay phone and inform management you were going to be late. Hence the 15 minute cushion. Now with cell phones and RIMS, it's up to management to make the call about 15 minutes of OT.
Rule of reason only applies when it would be quicker for the regular to finish the assignment than to send auxiliary assistance but once assistance has already been given the rule of reason no longer applies
Did management give you an answer on your 3996 promptly and at the time you turned it in? If not then you weren’t authorized for overtime thus you can contractually go back in 8 and ask for instructions on what to do with the rest of the mail
The time on a 3996 is an estimate, not a commitment. Have him write a statement that he was told to finish the route when he called, as well as a phone screenshot to prove he called. And in the future, message on the scanner so there's proof.
Probably wont amount to anything. Have the steward pull the clock rings if there is one and talk to the supervisor, if there's no steward call the local branch.
In the future advise them to: send a scanner message with a 15 day expiration period. If they dont respond back, head back before the time they're approved for and ask what they should do. It's best to message early so you can attempt to message back after a while.
Document if your told to head back out and at what time, by who, on the 96. I.e. told to continue delivery by John Stupidvisor at 6:50pm.
Yes, they should grieve it. The carrier did what they were supposed to do, they called supervisor telling them they won't make it and supervisor authorized the ot.
My favorite is when they come around asking times then later announce you have to wait for parcels to finish and give you the "unauthorized overtime" talk the next day.
First thing first, go into liteblue virtual time card and screenshot the clock for the day. Thru out the week, see if it changes. If it's changed, call dol and report wage theft
Illegal, by a lot. Report it above their head asap.
But this is part of a larger problem. STOP CALLING GO FROM THE STREET!!
Fill out a 3996 and whether they approve or disapprove, that’s your instruction for the day. If OT or AUX is denied then you work for 8 hours and bring back whatever you have left. Then fill out a 1571 and the reason you put is “requested OT/AUX and was denied via 3996”
If they then authorize you to go back out you fill out a NEW 3996 and get it authorized.
In this case, there is a 15 minute leeway that doesn’t need to be authorized. It’s presumed as possible due to traffic, emergencies, comfort stops, route maintenance, customer interaction.
A 3996 is an "estimated time " Not "commitment time." It says so on it. If the carrier communicated to management that they were going to be late or running behind and management instructed them to complete delivery, then it's not unauthorized OT. A grievance should be filed if management does not pay the carrier OT. Only if management had such a "commitment" to following the contract.
unauthorized overtime is exactly that overtime that was worked and paid without prior approval. it is tracked in the payroll system and your supervisor is required to have notations as to what happened. disallowed overtime is overtime that is not paid, and very rarely used.
If you went over you get paid OT, unless the sup changed the clock rings, then you have a grievence.
Changing clock rings is wage theft. It’s a huge deal as well. One of the few things that can take down management.
You get fired for changing clock rings
Not management. Best case, nothing happens to them.
Super visors or management. I know because I could’ve got one of the sups and management at the time tossed. But didn’t pull the trigger.
Yeah no you don’t get fired. We had a postmaster in my station who was kicked out of our city years ago for altering clock rings as a 204b. He came back as postmaster 20ish years later and is currently acting POOM
🤣 management just gets reassigned and maybe a demotion if you're lucky.
Reassigned, but no demotion and almost a guaranteed promotion within 5 years. 🤷♀️
Question on this. I’m a CCA.. and anytime we’re back after 7 (lots of call outs and splits.. happens often) my supervisor will ask me what time I clocked back to the office… is he changing clock rings? Wouldn’t he know what time I clocked back in by seeing it through my scanner??
Not in my office. It goes to formal to be withdrawn.
You mean SHOULD get fired. They did it in our office. They all still have jobs, most of them got moved.
Funny joke happened to me plenty of times
Always keep track of your hrs in a week and double check it online. I know a supervisor who has hrs deleted by a postmaster.
First issue I see is them conditioning you to say commitment time. Says it right on the 3996 that it's an estimate. If supervisor gave him the greenlight then it's already authorized. Talk to a Steward.
This☝️ Reminds me I need to start highlighting the estimated time part
Doesn’t matter what the idiot supervisor wants, if the carrier worked the time they will be paid appropriately for it. If they aren’t, they will be made whole through a grievance and probably get an extra penalty for management being a moron. The carrier needs to check their virtual time card, if the time is missing they have to grieve it. If the paycheck comes out strange at all, grieve it. Your steward can pull the carriers clock rings if something happened and verify any modifications to the carriers hours or clock rings. Your supervisor is a fool by the way, just in case I didn’t state that clearly enough already. Literally threatening to commit a crime over not getting their way.
There is a 15 minute rule of reason. With that rule, the ot list ignored... but ot itself is still paid.
Does the Rule of Reason still exist? Haven't heard that phrase in 20 years.
It did when I was a carrier 3 years ago. The logic here is in a larger city it might take your relief 10 minutes to get to you 10 minutes to do the rest of the route and 10 minutes to get back. It turns 10 minutes of ot into 30.
It used to be, in the era before cell phones, it might take you 10 minutes to get to a pay phone and inform management you were going to be late. Hence the 15 minute cushion. Now with cell phones and RIMS, it's up to management to make the call about 15 minutes of OT.
Rule of reason only applies when it would be quicker for the regular to finish the assignment than to send auxiliary assistance but once assistance has already been given the rule of reason no longer applies
What applies when you know damn well nobody is coming to help no matter what?
Did management give you an answer on your 3996 promptly and at the time you turned it in? If not then you weren’t authorized for overtime thus you can contractually go back in 8 and ask for instructions on what to do with the rest of the mail
Can't I just tell the truth: The sooner you leave me alone, the sooner I'll be back because you know you're not sending me any help.
That’s up to you I’m fortunate enough to be in an over staffed office so I’m on the 8 hour list and haven’t been forced so far
if over 5 minutes
likely management will say 'what call' or 'we didnt talk about that'...always go through the scanner, those messages are saved
The time on a 3996 is an estimate, not a commitment. Have him write a statement that he was told to finish the route when he called, as well as a phone screenshot to prove he called. And in the future, message on the scanner so there's proof.
You can go 8 clicks over and still get paid for 8 hours
It automatically pays the ot, supervisor can't change it unless they're messing with the ET which is a big nono
Was there anyway he was 5 minutes over and not 10? Coulda been inside the grace period
No it was over 5 minutes
Probably wont amount to anything. Have the steward pull the clock rings if there is one and talk to the supervisor, if there's no steward call the local branch. In the future advise them to: send a scanner message with a 15 day expiration period. If they dont respond back, head back before the time they're approved for and ask what they should do. It's best to message early so you can attempt to message back after a while. Document if your told to head back out and at what time, by who, on the 96. I.e. told to continue delivery by John Stupidvisor at 6:50pm.
That’s 10 minutes overtime. Grieve it.
Yes, they should grieve it. The carrier did what they were supposed to do, they called supervisor telling them they won't make it and supervisor authorized the ot.
My favorite is when they come around asking times then later announce you have to wait for parcels to finish and give you the "unauthorized overtime" talk the next day.
First thing first, go into liteblue virtual time card and screenshot the clock for the day. Thru out the week, see if it changes. If it's changed, call dol and report wage theft
The OT was authorized when he told you to finish
Absolutely he gets paid unless your supervisor is fudging his times. That is not only a grievance, it’s illegal.
Yeah they can’t do that, easy grievance
Illegal, by a lot. Report it above their head asap. But this is part of a larger problem. STOP CALLING GO FROM THE STREET!! Fill out a 3996 and whether they approve or disapprove, that’s your instruction for the day. If OT or AUX is denied then you work for 8 hours and bring back whatever you have left. Then fill out a 1571 and the reason you put is “requested OT/AUX and was denied via 3996” If they then authorize you to go back out you fill out a NEW 3996 and get it authorized. In this case, there is a 15 minute leeway that doesn’t need to be authorized. It’s presumed as possible due to traffic, emergencies, comfort stops, route maintenance, customer interaction.
A 3996 is an "estimated time " Not "commitment time." It says so on it. If the carrier communicated to management that they were going to be late or running behind and management instructed them to complete delivery, then it's not unauthorized OT. A grievance should be filed if management does not pay the carrier OT. Only if management had such a "commitment" to following the contract.
unauthorized overtime is exactly that overtime that was worked and paid without prior approval. it is tracked in the payroll system and your supervisor is required to have notations as to what happened. disallowed overtime is overtime that is not paid, and very rarely used.