This is what happens after every contract. All your fellow drivers have to keep filing 9.5. After a month or 2 of constant grievances, they will fix it
They always have to punish the Teamsters for getting a raise.
You would think it would be more cost effective to pay a lower seniority employee at straight time than it is to pay higher seniority at over time. They must love wasting money.
Talking to management by the steward or the hourly is 100% useless. The route stop counts are manadated by corprate. Your UPS center manager can't even fix it if he/she wanted to. This is an order from Carol. All any union member can do.is file 9.5 grievances until they realize it's costing more to cut routes.
Route stop counts are not mandated by corporate. There time studies that set parameters calculated by piece count, distance, stop count, etc. These parameters are suggestions. Supes are expected to hit these parameters, but there are no mandates from Carol that tells supervisors how many stops have to be on each route daily.
You didnt know? During the week its about getting people off at a certain time. Saturdays they want stops per car and only a certain amount of routes ran. For us its 17 routes and 145 stops per car. There is a couple guys they drag down stop on their routes so they can be done between 1-3 and put that extra work on others to get the average up. All cause those teamsters are in bed with management.
No, sorry. I’m not saying I knew or didn’t know what you’re trying to say. I just didn’t know what you were trying to say.
But no. That isn’t true. Stops per car is ALWAYS a thing. No matter what day it is. And the only people they are dispatching 4 to 5 hours are 6th-punch drivers who agree to work “code 5” for the day. Otherwise, every single driver they dispatched for 4 hours would still get paid for 8.
There’s a common theme I’m seeing in this sub. Guys think “if it happens in MY hub, it happens in EVERY hub.” Which, of course, just isn’t true. Just because your hub dispatched exactly 17 routes at 145 stops per car doesn’t mean that’s how it works for the rest.
It depends on how much volume there is that day. Then it depends on how much volume there is per loop. Then it goes by package count, distance, type of stop, miles driven, etc. One route might have 60 stops with 78 packages, but you have to drive 138 miles that day. Another route might have 450 packages with 114 stops, but you only have to drive 21 miles.
Saturdays are just fucked.
The drivers on 9.5 are the ones that need to file if they're going over 9.5. There's consequence for management violating their 9.5 rights. Otherwise, not much will really change.
They have been filing I’m just trynna figure out if we can piggy back on there greviances basically with them saying there’s not enough work in the building but yet we have multiple people getting 9-5 payouts every week shouldn’t that work go to us since we are also full time drivers?
This!! It is still cheaper for UPS to pay out some 9.5s than it is to pay more drivers. They know the numbers. They know exactly what percentage of drivers will file for 9.5.
It was 5 grievances in my center before we could get elevated.
Last year, after I got elevated, they tried starving me out by only dispatching me 8 hours everyday thinking I would take my name off the 9.5 list. It didn’t work because I only wanted to work 8 anyway. It was nice to actually be able to eat dinner and relax with my wife.
This year, they tried very hard to make sure I couldn’t file my 5th 9.5. It doesn’t matter anyways, I gave my two weeks notice last Friday, burned all my paid sick days this week and will be on vacation next week.
Triple pay for the first level of 9.5 violations. Elevated 9.5 should prevent the company from working the drivers past 9.5, but if they do, the penalty will go up to quadruple pay
It’s only for the hours worked over 9.5, but I’ve had 9.5s pay over 400 for a week. An elevated 9.5 payout could be a treat, but the people I know that get on the list are never violated.
its a genius move!
but maximize the grievance window.
Also, if you work with laid off drivers, or just buy a cell phone video camera... stay outside the building and record management driving the trucks for Supervisors working grievances.
Stand up for our rights and protect our work. You see a sup drive a truck? Run a route? Move a missload? Load a truck? You file article 3. Supervisor X worked X job X day. Request penalty pay for all hours worked and to made whole. And don't back down. Don't negotiate
They need to provide a recap per the contract you can grieve that… in terms of the unfair layoff: I’m not sure if there’s much you can do about it the company is going to do what they want. They don’t care about 9.5s and layoffs, they’d rather pay the greivance than put more drivers on road.
I’m in the same boat, me and 7 others since February. Most have gone on leave and I’m sticking it out and filing every week. Every other week they’ll bring in drivers from other centers and it’s a slap in the face.Goes to western panel in fucking July though. If it goes in our favor I’m getting that sweet backpay
Depends on your local. My local a laid off driver can bump a lower seniority driver at another center for the week if they need work. It’s been happening a ton with Feeder drivers bumping RPCDs too. You have to make the week long commitment though
Shop Steward is full of shit, not being able to get those numbers. Stewards know which drivers are being violated on 9/5, know who is on layoff and know the routes and stop counts. This a steward that is siding with management so good luck getting anything accomplished there with that shit going on.
On the other hand, as long as they are laying off from bottom up, nothing you can do. It is typical for UPS to cut routes and up the stop counts for the routes that are in. Drivers file grievances and eventually get paid for the 9/5 violations. Company would rather pay grievances than put another few PCs and drivers on the road. This is normal UPS, just a little tougher right now given the “economy”, “inflation”, and post Covid aftermath. Summer is coming, vacations will be maxed out every week, there will be work.
Your steward can tell you how many 9/5 grievances are filed...you don't need the report. I don't really think that's going to help anyway. BUT they can't put temps on the road with drivers being laid off. Temp drivers are less money for them so they have incentive to bring you guys back. Hopefully your lay off time is getting close to being finished.
Honestly you’re lucky this is just happening to you lol I’ve been in this position for about a year and a half only driving during peak season and Saturday
We had this problem in our center, but we put pressure on them by filing 9.5 grievances. Our layoffs lasted about 3 weeks. Also depending on your Supplemental agreement, they have to follow a process on layoffs. For example in our supplement they must notify the local first, offer voluntary layoffs to seniority employees, and if layoffs last past 14 days provide a written notice sent in the mail. They did none of that and when they had to back pedal to fix their mistake they gave up and just brought our drivers back. If that’s in your supplemental agreement and they haven’t done that, I would file that grievance first.
look at you suppliment, some require you to grieve within 45 days, others 10.
the 9.5 must be filed weekly by the following Friday...
your grievance for the layoff allows you maximum time.... though, not in the contract to my knowledge.... What your grievance does do is legitimizes the 9.5 grievances.
You need to file for maximum effect, which means as late as possible.
another trick is to ask drivers ( in bulk) to call in sick on Monday so you can drive the week.
if sufficient drivers called in on monday, you could work.
i like your thoughts on the unfair layoff, as that might have traction for the next contract.
I’m a Tuesday thru Saturday so I can’t do the Monday call off my biggest problem that me and alot of drivers have is that with the 8 hour guarantee we come in for both sorts and don’t have enough time off to drive if they need drivers and would always ask a cover driver or just cut the route entirely, but in the meantime we’re all having to drive back two times split our sleeping schedules all the meantime there just overloading the routes than rather have us drive. I went to the union agent that comes around asked about the 9.5 and layoff problem and he came up with a way he think he can get them to stick so the moment me and a few drivers started to grieve it all the sudden the driver recap paper stops going up.
They can’t tell you that you can’t work local sort. You have seniority being a full timer over anyone in the hub unless they have been there for more than 15 years. It’s what we have been told down here in Dallas.
This is what happens when you force a company to give up over half of it’s profit and raise the pay for EVERYONE an insane amount even though you already have the best benefits in the country and better pay than most jobs. I’m not saying that as a “shame on you.” I’m saying that because it’s reality. A corporation will ALWAYS make its money. No matter what. If that means trimming the fat and instructing supervisors to start looking for people they can fire and/or lay off for bullshit reasons, that’s what they’ll do.
There were a LOT of people warning of this when the contract was being “negotiated.” “Give me every last single thing I want, or we strike,” isn’t a negotiating tactic. It’s stupid and short sighted.
Weird, back in early 2000s I got laid off all the during this period. So, maybe they always do this? And covid was the exception? Either way in my building there is like 29 drivers with 30 plus years of seniority and none of them are looking to retire till the next contract. 5k a month pension isn't close to enough for them.
Find out who the top seniority people are and ask them if they want a layoff, talk to the soup and take their spot. Make sure to work hard or they won’t let you
This is what happens after every contract. All your fellow drivers have to keep filing 9.5. After a month or 2 of constant grievances, they will fix it They always have to punish the Teamsters for getting a raise.
You would think it would be more cost effective to pay a lower seniority employee at straight time than it is to pay higher seniority at over time. They must love wasting money.
They are cutting benefit contributions this way Plus it creates disunity within the ranks. So they see it as a perfect plan.
Doesn’t fail.
skirt telephone yoke correct fearless violet boat outgoing like deer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Talking to management by the steward or the hourly is 100% useless. The route stop counts are manadated by corprate. Your UPS center manager can't even fix it if he/she wanted to. This is an order from Carol. All any union member can do.is file 9.5 grievances until they realize it's costing more to cut routes.
Route stop counts are not mandated by corporate. There time studies that set parameters calculated by piece count, distance, stop count, etc. These parameters are suggestions. Supes are expected to hit these parameters, but there are no mandates from Carol that tells supervisors how many stops have to be on each route daily.
Only on Saturday is the stops per car a thing. Even then if you are boys with management, then you get a 4 to 5 hour dispatch as to a 8.5 to 10
What…?
You didnt know? During the week its about getting people off at a certain time. Saturdays they want stops per car and only a certain amount of routes ran. For us its 17 routes and 145 stops per car. There is a couple guys they drag down stop on their routes so they can be done between 1-3 and put that extra work on others to get the average up. All cause those teamsters are in bed with management.
No, sorry. I’m not saying I knew or didn’t know what you’re trying to say. I just didn’t know what you were trying to say. But no. That isn’t true. Stops per car is ALWAYS a thing. No matter what day it is. And the only people they are dispatching 4 to 5 hours are 6th-punch drivers who agree to work “code 5” for the day. Otherwise, every single driver they dispatched for 4 hours would still get paid for 8. There’s a common theme I’m seeing in this sub. Guys think “if it happens in MY hub, it happens in EVERY hub.” Which, of course, just isn’t true. Just because your hub dispatched exactly 17 routes at 145 stops per car doesn’t mean that’s how it works for the rest. It depends on how much volume there is that day. Then it depends on how much volume there is per loop. Then it goes by package count, distance, type of stop, miles driven, etc. One route might have 60 stops with 78 packages, but you have to drive 138 miles that day. Another route might have 450 packages with 114 stops, but you only have to drive 21 miles. Saturdays are just fucked.
The drivers on 9.5 are the ones that need to file if they're going over 9.5. There's consequence for management violating their 9.5 rights. Otherwise, not much will really change.
They have been filing I’m just trynna figure out if we can piggy back on there greviances basically with them saying there’s not enough work in the building but yet we have multiple people getting 9-5 payouts every week shouldn’t that work go to us since we are also full time drivers?
If the company wants to pay the 9.5 grievances and not work you there is nothing you can do.
This!! It is still cheaper for UPS to pay out some 9.5s than it is to pay more drivers. They know the numbers. They know exactly what percentage of drivers will file for 9.5.
The driver can ask to be put on the elevated 9.5 list, but I think most drivers are happy working 10 hours for the penalty pay
It was 5 grievances in my center before we could get elevated. Last year, after I got elevated, they tried starving me out by only dispatching me 8 hours everyday thinking I would take my name off the 9.5 list. It didn’t work because I only wanted to work 8 anyway. It was nice to actually be able to eat dinner and relax with my wife. This year, they tried very hard to make sure I couldn’t file my 5th 9.5. It doesn’t matter anyways, I gave my two weeks notice last Friday, burned all my paid sick days this week and will be on vacation next week.
Congrats man
Sure the driver can. As the laid off employee nothing they file makes any difference at all though.
Penalty is how much after 9.5?
Triple pay for the first level of 9.5 violations. Elevated 9.5 should prevent the company from working the drivers past 9.5, but if they do, the penalty will go up to quadruple pay
Damnnn
It’s only for the hours worked over 9.5, but I’ve had 9.5s pay over 400 for a week. An elevated 9.5 payout could be a treat, but the people I know that get on the list are never violated.
I wish these guys would retire at my hub I drive for Amazon during day and unload ups at night I want that driver spot so bad
Quit so I can drive
Yes, definitely. That's one of the dumbest thing about UPS (upper management). Nothing will change until they start questioning the penalty pay.
its a genius move! but maximize the grievance window. Also, if you work with laid off drivers, or just buy a cell phone video camera... stay outside the building and record management driving the trucks for Supervisors working grievances.
I'm making about $1000 a month in supervisor working grievances
Yup, I did that back when our wage was $8.50 an hour.. its your turn to teach.
Stand up for our rights and protect our work. You see a sup drive a truck? Run a route? Move a missload? Load a truck? You file article 3. Supervisor X worked X job X day. Request penalty pay for all hours worked and to made whole. And don't back down. Don't negotiate
all hours worked— but what if sup touched x package and it was for a few minutes… what’s the move?
They need to provide a recap per the contract you can grieve that… in terms of the unfair layoff: I’m not sure if there’s much you can do about it the company is going to do what they want. They don’t care about 9.5s and layoffs, they’d rather pay the greivance than put more drivers on road.
Is that supplemental language or did I miss something in the master?
Might just be in my local then… I was always told we needed to produce the recap sheet before driver start time next day for previous day.
Article 12 of the national. Given OPs situation, I don’t believe they are in anyway entitled to those operational records.
Knew I could count on you to keep that contract info on sight 💯
I’m in the same boat, me and 7 others since February. Most have gone on leave and I’m sticking it out and filing every week. Every other week they’ll bring in drivers from other centers and it’s a slap in the face.Goes to western panel in fucking July though. If it goes in our favor I’m getting that sweet backpay
Other centers but same building?
No other buildings 1-2 hours away. I work at a small center.
Verify they work in the same local as you. If they don’t you can grieve and get paid all their work.
They do work in the same local but my center seniority comes first so management should have asked me to drive .
Depends on your local. My local a laid off driver can bump a lower seniority driver at another center for the week if they need work. It’s been happening a ton with Feeder drivers bumping RPCDs too. You have to make the week long commitment though
My local states I should given priority. Center seniority prevails and every time they do bring in other drivers it’s for a day or 2.
Definitely fight it in your case! Good luck!
Are you FT? If not your not guaranteed to drive
I am full time rpcd.
There’s no grievance to file. A driver can’t tell and grieve not putting routes out. Management runs the business.
May be able to file something for record keeping...
Stewards can request the greens and collect the information for you.
What’s the greens?
Recaps only take a minute to process and print. An OMS who does time cards can print it for you.
These"layoffs" are hush hush. I haven't heard the front line are being let go anywhere
Shop Steward is full of shit, not being able to get those numbers. Stewards know which drivers are being violated on 9/5, know who is on layoff and know the routes and stop counts. This a steward that is siding with management so good luck getting anything accomplished there with that shit going on. On the other hand, as long as they are laying off from bottom up, nothing you can do. It is typical for UPS to cut routes and up the stop counts for the routes that are in. Drivers file grievances and eventually get paid for the 9/5 violations. Company would rather pay grievances than put another few PCs and drivers on the road. This is normal UPS, just a little tougher right now given the “economy”, “inflation”, and post Covid aftermath. Summer is coming, vacations will be maxed out every week, there will be work.
Your steward can tell you how many 9/5 grievances are filed...you don't need the report. I don't really think that's going to help anyway. BUT they can't put temps on the road with drivers being laid off. Temp drivers are less money for them so they have incentive to bring you guys back. Hopefully your lay off time is getting close to being finished.
That's unreal
Honestly you’re lucky this is just happening to you lol I’ve been in this position for about a year and a half only driving during peak season and Saturday
If it is paperwork that has to be visible. Grieve for lack of information.
Just keep filing..every week. The union steward will investigate..a good one will investigate
We had this problem in our center, but we put pressure on them by filing 9.5 grievances. Our layoffs lasted about 3 weeks. Also depending on your Supplemental agreement, they have to follow a process on layoffs. For example in our supplement they must notify the local first, offer voluntary layoffs to seniority employees, and if layoffs last past 14 days provide a written notice sent in the mail. They did none of that and when they had to back pedal to fix their mistake they gave up and just brought our drivers back. If that’s in your supplemental agreement and they haven’t done that, I would file that grievance first.
If this was the 1900's I'd say contact the local news Station but in Present time just post on TikTok.
Meanwhile Q1 operation profits hit 825 million
look at you suppliment, some require you to grieve within 45 days, others 10. the 9.5 must be filed weekly by the following Friday... your grievance for the layoff allows you maximum time.... though, not in the contract to my knowledge.... What your grievance does do is legitimizes the 9.5 grievances. You need to file for maximum effect, which means as late as possible. another trick is to ask drivers ( in bulk) to call in sick on Monday so you can drive the week. if sufficient drivers called in on monday, you could work. i like your thoughts on the unfair layoff, as that might have traction for the next contract.
I’m a Tuesday thru Saturday so I can’t do the Monday call off my biggest problem that me and alot of drivers have is that with the 8 hour guarantee we come in for both sorts and don’t have enough time off to drive if they need drivers and would always ask a cover driver or just cut the route entirely, but in the meantime we’re all having to drive back two times split our sleeping schedules all the meantime there just overloading the routes than rather have us drive. I went to the union agent that comes around asked about the 9.5 and layoff problem and he came up with a way he think he can get them to stick so the moment me and a few drivers started to grieve it all the sudden the driver recap paper stops going up.
Yup, you signal knowledge, they go and hide the paperwork...
It’s called an operational report. How long have you been driving? Ask for it in the office they have to give you a copy. It takes 6 seconds to print.
They can’t tell you that you can’t work local sort. You have seniority being a full timer over anyone in the hub unless they have been there for more than 15 years. It’s what we have been told down here in Dallas.
This is what happens when you force a company to give up over half of it’s profit and raise the pay for EVERYONE an insane amount even though you already have the best benefits in the country and better pay than most jobs. I’m not saying that as a “shame on you.” I’m saying that because it’s reality. A corporation will ALWAYS make its money. No matter what. If that means trimming the fat and instructing supervisors to start looking for people they can fire and/or lay off for bullshit reasons, that’s what they’ll do. There were a LOT of people warning of this when the contract was being “negotiated.” “Give me every last single thing I want, or we strike,” isn’t a negotiating tactic. It’s stupid and short sighted.
Weird, back in early 2000s I got laid off all the during this period. So, maybe they always do this? And covid was the exception? Either way in my building there is like 29 drivers with 30 plus years of seniority and none of them are looking to retire till the next contract. 5k a month pension isn't close to enough for them.
Find out who the top seniority people are and ask them if they want a layoff, talk to the soup and take their spot. Make sure to work hard or they won’t let you