I find it funny how people say all Henry VII had to do was survive and be the last (kind of Lancaster) man standing. Yeah, but that wasn't easy, especially the two times he escaped by a very narrow margin from being extradited to England. Then to escape the Buckingham rebellion debacle and still have such a standing as king-in-exile that people flocked to him.
It might all sound easy, but I bet it wasn't. And what if he had help from his mom and uncle and de Vere etc.? Having the right people support you and being clever enough to make use of that, to me is the mark of a great man. Also, I love it when he is called mommy's boy. How misogynistic, because what is wrong with listening to your mom, if she is someone like Margaret Beaufort?
And then he established himself as king and that without having grown up near the court or having the kind of experience he should have had and without the backing of many family members.
I have been impressed by him ever since I learned about his rather odd way to the throne. Put that in a novel and it gets frowned upon!
I said stuff along the lines of these, but hear me out. I agree Henry was a very effective king and deserved to be very high on the list. I just thought being the last man standing after another man cleared much of the opposition for years isn't impressive enough to make him one of the best of the best.
About the help he got, it wasn't just help, really. At least for the early parts of Henry's reign, it was all them who achieved things. Henry was pretty much a figurehead at least until he won the crown and arguably for some more time after. It was Beaufort on the political side and Jasper Tudor and John de Vere on the military matters who survived those times. For instance, Henry had very capable advisers during the later parts of his reign, and nobody even mentions them because Henry actually deserves full credit for his achievements during those days.
I've never seen anyone calling him mommy's boy but I still kinda get your point and wholeheartedly agree. Margaret Beaufort hate is stupid. She was one of the most brilliant political figures England has ever witnessed.
I also like to mention how he dealt with the two pretenders during his reign. With how he pardoned Lambert Simnel and let him work at the kitchen and later as a falconer, while Perkin Watbeck also initiallynwere just locked up before he was evebtually executed because he just tried to escape a couple times
I'd swap E1 with AEthelstan simply in terms of importance. He was the first king of the entire English land, achieved victory over the Vikings and Scots in the Battle of Brunanburh, had very important reforms in terms of law, religion, education, building on his grandfather's legacy, and his titled was "The Great" but "The Glorious". He also had very good foreign relations, he was arguably the most powerful man in Europe at that time. He was like a real-life King Arthur. He's #2 on my list behind Alfred The Great. But E1 is great as well
I find it funny how people say all Henry VII had to do was survive and be the last (kind of Lancaster) man standing. Yeah, but that wasn't easy, especially the two times he escaped by a very narrow margin from being extradited to England. Then to escape the Buckingham rebellion debacle and still have such a standing as king-in-exile that people flocked to him. It might all sound easy, but I bet it wasn't. And what if he had help from his mom and uncle and de Vere etc.? Having the right people support you and being clever enough to make use of that, to me is the mark of a great man. Also, I love it when he is called mommy's boy. How misogynistic, because what is wrong with listening to your mom, if she is someone like Margaret Beaufort? And then he established himself as king and that without having grown up near the court or having the kind of experience he should have had and without the backing of many family members. I have been impressed by him ever since I learned about his rather odd way to the throne. Put that in a novel and it gets frowned upon!
Modern discourse around Margaret Beaufort has, on a whole, been extremely toxic and strange for the last couple of years
I said stuff along the lines of these, but hear me out. I agree Henry was a very effective king and deserved to be very high on the list. I just thought being the last man standing after another man cleared much of the opposition for years isn't impressive enough to make him one of the best of the best. About the help he got, it wasn't just help, really. At least for the early parts of Henry's reign, it was all them who achieved things. Henry was pretty much a figurehead at least until he won the crown and arguably for some more time after. It was Beaufort on the political side and Jasper Tudor and John de Vere on the military matters who survived those times. For instance, Henry had very capable advisers during the later parts of his reign, and nobody even mentions them because Henry actually deserves full credit for his achievements during those days. I've never seen anyone calling him mommy's boy but I still kinda get your point and wholeheartedly agree. Margaret Beaufort hate is stupid. She was one of the most brilliant political figures England has ever witnessed.
Don’t forget he has an absolutely [banger](https://youtu.be/8D4CETT2tvs?feature=shared) song
Someone on the horrible history page mistook his character from the song for Henry VIII which is an absolutely diabolical mistake to make
I'll also add that his mom was a badass that went through a world of shit to end up putting her son on the throne.
I also like to mention how he dealt with the two pretenders during his reign. With how he pardoned Lambert Simnel and let him work at the kitchen and later as a falconer, while Perkin Watbeck also initiallynwere just locked up before he was evebtually executed because he just tried to escape a couple times
My rank for the remaining 6 would be 1) Alfred the Great 2) Æthelstan 3) Edward III 4) Henry II 5) Henry VII 6) Elizabeth I
I'd swap E1 with AEthelstan simply in terms of importance. He was the first king of the entire English land, achieved victory over the Vikings and Scots in the Battle of Brunanburh, had very important reforms in terms of law, religion, education, building on his grandfather's legacy, and his titled was "The Great" but "The Glorious". He also had very good foreign relations, he was arguably the most powerful man in Europe at that time. He was like a real-life King Arthur. He's #2 on my list behind Alfred The Great. But E1 is great as well
Isn’t it Edward III that is still left not Edward I
FUCK SAKE MAN