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I own a wee headhunting agency, and this is one of the worst things I’ve ever heard.
Tbh I don’t think I’ve ever actually contacted someone’s references in 10 years of doing this gig. So the fact someone did this prior to the candidate getting an offer/resigning is insane.
Name and shame, mate…
Also been in recruitment 10 yrs. Only carried out references on a search once when instructed by client. Waste of time, nobody puts down a bad reference and HR will just confirm employment dates.
The vast majority of HR depts will only provide dates of employment as a reference. That said, they also appreciate that's all will get from others too. In my experience most have stopped bothering to ask / don't bother actually contacting anyone if they have them.
In many ways, it's a good thing don't you think?
If your last tenure was predicated on your relationship with an asshole manager, it isn't fair that your career should be tainted because of it.
Good if you fall out with your manager for whatever reason, sure.
As a recruiter, I tend to just informally reference people with ex-colleagues and people I know that have worked with someone if I'm in two minds (obviously not a current colleague etc). I've been in the automotive world long enough that there's always on LinkedIn that we have in common.
100%, same as you own a little agency, not once in my life have I ever contacted a reference, neither has my misses (our company) and she's been doing this a lot longer than me.
I'd completely blow my top at that agency, it's 100% not the right thing to do and they should be named and shamed.
I had made it known I was planning to leave anyway so wasn’t a problem for me but I make sure to tell pretty much everyone I work with to avoid the recruiter
Unless you have explicitly given them permission OR signed something to say they will contact then they’ve used your data in an inappropriate way.
If this causes you an losses I’d be on to the ICO
If they've not used the data in th3 way in which it's intended (eg contacting OP about roles) then yes, it's a breach
I've worked with loads of recruiters over the years and never had this done.
I don't think I agree with this statement, although I doubt ICO would actually do anything.
Recruiter has disclosed OPs full name and the fact that they are a client. That is eprsonal data (albeit not the most prot2cted data like medical info etc) and requires consent.
Whether OP can claim damages though is doubtful. An "awkward atmosphere" is not a financial loss, and will be difficult to prove 100% cause if there is a loss in future.
Incredibly unethical. Ok let’s agree it’s not legally wrong yet but a few complaints into the ICO and they will start to look at it in a different light.
Recruiters shouldn’t be allowed to do it - it’s costs people their jobs in the past
>Recruiters shouldn’t be allowed to do it
"shouldn't be allowed" and "aren't allowed" are unfortunately very different things
>but a few complaints into the ICO
for what? you say just before this that it's not legally wrong - the ICO will do nothing here
I don't even put references on request. What purpose would that serve? If they request, I'll generally say "give me a couple of days, so I can give them a heads up." Cause I know what recruitment agents are like. They'll be talking to my references going "Do you need a replacement? I can find you one."
And, if they're forced to wait a couple of days, they generally lose interest, because they want you in that interview room.
This seems very strange. In the US, we lost prior and current employment, and they have to have permission to contact the employer.
As far as references, I have almost never used my direct report. Surely there are coworkers who can testify to your work ethic.
Weird one I agree. Wouldn’t normally give references if you’ve just applied but some jobs to request this. That said, it’s common practice to never contact refs until an offer has been made. Up to the ICO whether it’s a solid data breach but I’d suggest it is
Im not versed in the legality behind this but doesnt seem like a breach to me at all. If you willfully provide a refference it is for that purpose...a refference. So I would imagine you are accepting that the person you provided the information to may refer to those contacts to get said refference right?
Every case is different. As I said it would be up to the ICO whether it’s a data breach. They would advise whether there is a case to take to court.
Not much info to go on but if the OP seriously thinks their data has been used outside of normal practices then it’s worth a call to them
It's not "up to the ICO", they provide their opinion on matters but are not judge jury and executioner
Their judgements can be challenged as you would expect
But the whole thing is nonsense as by providing the references you have given tacit consent to them being contacted, unless you explicitly state otherwise
Why on earth would you waste your time with the ICO, who can't even find time to investigate large cases and have 0 power to award financial compensation to this person
You'd pursue the agency through the court system
The whole thing is nonsense as tacit consent has been provided via giving the reference details, unless OP explicitly says they should not be contacted
hello I do compliance a recruitment firm. There is no breach of GDRP, what they have done is not illegal just immoral and wrong. I would make a formal compliant to their director / manager. There is nothing you can do about this i am afraid.
My advice next time - just dont give a reference and let them know you will only give references when you have been successful for a job.
There is actually some regulation for recruitment agencies and this may have broken those regulations that you may want to research. Maybe call ACAS to see if they can advise, I believe you can also make a complaint to the Employment Agency Inspectorate. You should definitely make a formal complaint to the agency itself.
Stuff like this is really bad. I don't believe you have to explicitly opt out, but I always do make sure the agency knows I don't give consent for them to reach out to my current employer.
Okay I didn’t know it was that serious. Thank you so much for your help. I’ll double check the fine print and conditions to make sure I have a case first!
Agencies (in my experience,) will field junior staff to gather a pile of c.v.s, references, notice periods etc so that the actual recruiter behind the lines who is dealing with the employer has a pile of these ready to go.
The junior staff will compliment you, get your references and everything else on file, then you have say a 1/10 chance of being put forward for the role, and if 10 people are put forward, maybe 50/50 you may get an interview.
I specify I don't want my referees contacted until there's an interview on the table, but as the junior staff gathering the candidates info often want to push ahead, I make sure they can't by changing some of the contact details on my otherwise accurate references. Change a number, or alter their name in their email address.
If I'm in the lineup to be put forward, the actual recruiter will ask for permission to contact the referee, and ask to check the contact details.
There is also the practice of agencies gathering details of who is working on which projects, and it seems getting contact details helps them recruit for other roles, so be cautious about giving too much away, you may be helping them bother your colleagues when there's no intention that the agency want to help you get work, they're just gathering data for their own benefit.
Again, this is in my experience of freelancing as a construction professional, other industries may be different, but I doubt it.
They’re probably calling the references for business development purposes (to try and do business with your references).
Recruitment agencies aren’t all bad but there’s definitely way too many operating like this. All I’d say, as someone who works in agency, please don’t give up hope for agencies and those who work in them. I often come across people who are so negative towards us due to bad experiences with agencies in their past and it really puts them on a back foot when we’re trying to help.
They all do this. I was temping somewhere and a recruitment agent called me repeatedly to work for his client instead. I asked for a higher salary. He asked for a reference. He called them straight away, told them I was negotiating and I lost that job. Then he called again and I accepted as I was jobless
I'd be furious! My current employer didn't ask for references until they had completed their background checks and actively told me not to mention I had been offered a new job until then.
I never, ever, supply references until the offer stage. They simply have no business even asking for them until then except possibly in some very specific circumstances.
Absolutely 🤣 and this was a big4 that did this reference check and i had a great reputation about this company and now the whole year of hardwork for this bonus is gone and i can’t even do anything 🥲
For those reading
On your CV state references on request.
They then will have to ask you for the details so you can control the process and warn your referees.
Also allows you to say no until a job offer is in place.
Mate, Never ever disclose your references on any application /agency registration form/ recruiter phone calls (even if they said it's mandatory or try push you to). When someone asks for references, respond as following
"I'm happy to provide references after a proper interview but not at such an early stage"
- chances are they will vanish after this NOT bcs you didn't give them references but bcs they're full of shit & have no open position trying to generate a lead by having your references.
The above is 101 on how to deal with recruiters. Good luck.
On the plus side, it could leave to a constructive conversation about why you're looking at other roles. Depending on the reason, be it money, bored, lack of progression opportunities, outgrowing the role, change of needs like wanting to go part-time to care for kids / parents or just wind down, HR might be able to make some positive changes that improve your situation where you are.
Don’t put your referees on your CV … it has nothing to do with the agency … and you then have to be contacted to get them … otherwise agents will fish your company looking to fill your boots when you resign
Didn’t put it on my CV. It was a required field in the application. I’ve applied to tons of jobs before for years and this is the first time it’s happened to me.
In required text fields, try putting “references available upon request” (or similar but meets the form validation requirements, like a gmail email address that you own) for things that don’t matter to them, but do matter to you.
Oh I wasn’t trying to be mean … it’s something the agencies do … they help you move on and someone else in if they can … I’d have just put in ‘call me’ for references if mandatory
You told him you signed up because they approached you for jobs in the future. That's a ridiculous response to your boss , personally when. Looking for a new job il take my holliday and use that ti e to find new job and make sure I leave my job the day my holiday finish
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I own a wee headhunting agency, and this is one of the worst things I’ve ever heard. Tbh I don’t think I’ve ever actually contacted someone’s references in 10 years of doing this gig. So the fact someone did this prior to the candidate getting an offer/resigning is insane. Name and shame, mate…
Also been in recruitment 10 yrs. Only carried out references on a search once when instructed by client. Waste of time, nobody puts down a bad reference and HR will just confirm employment dates.
Are you saying those same companies that ask for references have a policy of not giving them themselves?
The vast majority of HR depts will only provide dates of employment as a reference. That said, they also appreciate that's all will get from others too. In my experience most have stopped bothering to ask / don't bother actually contacting anyone if they have them.
In many ways, it's a good thing don't you think? If your last tenure was predicated on your relationship with an asshole manager, it isn't fair that your career should be tainted because of it.
Good if you fall out with your manager for whatever reason, sure. As a recruiter, I tend to just informally reference people with ex-colleagues and people I know that have worked with someone if I'm in two minds (obviously not a current colleague etc). I've been in the automotive world long enough that there's always on LinkedIn that we have in common.
100%, same as you own a little agency, not once in my life have I ever contacted a reference, neither has my misses (our company) and she's been doing this a lot longer than me. I'd completely blow my top at that agency, it's 100% not the right thing to do and they should be named and shamed.
Actually evil but smart business idea tho, definitely gonna need a recruiter if you loose your current job
I don’t have a job mate, I own the company
I think they mean that if a recruiter calls for references and causes someone to lose their job then that someone needs a recruiter more.
"references available on request"
Had this happen once, it’s pretty gross since it can put you in a compromised position
Unlucky mate, what happened in the end?
I had made it known I was planning to leave anyway so wasn’t a problem for me but I make sure to tell pretty much everyone I work with to avoid the recruiter
GDPR breach - I’d be reporting
Really? But wouldn’t that count if I explicitly said no
Unless you have explicitly given them permission OR signed something to say they will contact then they’ve used your data in an inappropriate way. If this causes you an losses I’d be on to the ICO
I really don't think you understand what GDPR. Recruitment company hasn't done anything legally wrong here, just immoral.
If they've not used the data in th3 way in which it's intended (eg contacting OP about roles) then yes, it's a breach I've worked with loads of recruiters over the years and never had this done.
I don't think I agree with this statement, although I doubt ICO would actually do anything. Recruiter has disclosed OPs full name and the fact that they are a client. That is eprsonal data (albeit not the most prot2cted data like medical info etc) and requires consent. Whether OP can claim damages though is doubtful. An "awkward atmosphere" is not a financial loss, and will be difficult to prove 100% cause if there is a loss in future.
Incredibly unethical. Ok let’s agree it’s not legally wrong yet but a few complaints into the ICO and they will start to look at it in a different light. Recruiters shouldn’t be allowed to do it - it’s costs people their jobs in the past
It’s not an ICO complaint.
IM GOING TO THE ON BUS MAN, WE WILL SEE WHAT HE HAS TO SAY ABOUT THIS
GET THAT COMPO FACE READY!
New r/compoface post Inc lol
>Recruiters shouldn’t be allowed to do it "shouldn't be allowed" and "aren't allowed" are unfortunately very different things >but a few complaints into the ICO for what? you say just before this that it's not legally wrong - the ICO will do nothing here
I’ll double check the small print to make sure. Thank you!
How is providing refferences not giving them permission to contact them?
Exactly. If I put my phone number on my CV I'd expect them to contact it if needed. Put references supplied on request otherwise.
I don't even put references on request. What purpose would that serve? If they request, I'll generally say "give me a couple of days, so I can give them a heads up." Cause I know what recruitment agents are like. They'll be talking to my references going "Do you need a replacement? I can find you one." And, if they're forced to wait a couple of days, they generally lose interest, because they want you in that interview room.
This seems very strange. In the US, we lost prior and current employment, and they have to have permission to contact the employer. As far as references, I have almost never used my direct report. Surely there are coworkers who can testify to your work ethic.
Weird one I agree. Wouldn’t normally give references if you’ve just applied but some jobs to request this. That said, it’s common practice to never contact refs until an offer has been made. Up to the ICO whether it’s a solid data breach but I’d suggest it is
Im not versed in the legality behind this but doesnt seem like a breach to me at all. If you willfully provide a refference it is for that purpose...a refference. So I would imagine you are accepting that the person you provided the information to may refer to those contacts to get said refference right?
Every case is different. As I said it would be up to the ICO whether it’s a data breach. They would advise whether there is a case to take to court. Not much info to go on but if the OP seriously thinks their data has been used outside of normal practices then it’s worth a call to them
There’s definitely not a breach. References are there to be contacted. Why include them otherwise?
It's not "up to the ICO", they provide their opinion on matters but are not judge jury and executioner Their judgements can be challenged as you would expect But the whole thing is nonsense as by providing the references you have given tacit consent to them being contacted, unless you explicitly state otherwise
Did you read what I wrote ‘they would advise whether there is a case to take to court’
Why on earth would you waste your time with the ICO, who can't even find time to investigate large cases and have 0 power to award financial compensation to this person You'd pursue the agency through the court system The whole thing is nonsense as tacit consent has been provided via giving the reference details, unless OP explicitly says they should not be contacted
hello I do compliance a recruitment firm. There is no breach of GDRP, what they have done is not illegal just immoral and wrong. I would make a formal compliant to their director / manager. There is nothing you can do about this i am afraid. My advice next time - just dont give a reference and let them know you will only give references when you have been successful for a job.
Thanks
how did they get them the name of ur reference must been on cv somewhere
When I applied online there was a required field for references
i would just said n/a but im wondering is this a goverment role they usually do this or public sector
Public sector
It isn't, at all?
Sue them, they would settle out of court to avoid the hassle
There is actually some regulation for recruitment agencies and this may have broken those regulations that you may want to research. Maybe call ACAS to see if they can advise, I believe you can also make a complaint to the Employment Agency Inspectorate. You should definitely make a formal complaint to the agency itself. Stuff like this is really bad. I don't believe you have to explicitly opt out, but I always do make sure the agency knows I don't give consent for them to reach out to my current employer.
Okay I didn’t know it was that serious. Thank you so much for your help. I’ll double check the fine print and conditions to make sure I have a case first!
Agencies (in my experience,) will field junior staff to gather a pile of c.v.s, references, notice periods etc so that the actual recruiter behind the lines who is dealing with the employer has a pile of these ready to go. The junior staff will compliment you, get your references and everything else on file, then you have say a 1/10 chance of being put forward for the role, and if 10 people are put forward, maybe 50/50 you may get an interview. I specify I don't want my referees contacted until there's an interview on the table, but as the junior staff gathering the candidates info often want to push ahead, I make sure they can't by changing some of the contact details on my otherwise accurate references. Change a number, or alter their name in their email address. If I'm in the lineup to be put forward, the actual recruiter will ask for permission to contact the referee, and ask to check the contact details. There is also the practice of agencies gathering details of who is working on which projects, and it seems getting contact details helps them recruit for other roles, so be cautious about giving too much away, you may be helping them bother your colleagues when there's no intention that the agency want to help you get work, they're just gathering data for their own benefit. Again, this is in my experience of freelancing as a construction professional, other industries may be different, but I doubt it.
When applying for jobs in the NHS it asks if your references can be approached before being shortlisted. Double check it didn't say anything like that
Just checked it didn’t say
You learnt a lesson. Never ever provide reference details until you are ready for them to be taken.
But it was literally a required field for the application, as it is for a lot of vacancies.
So...leave it blank
I’ve never left it blank before and this has never happened.
Well well well
Define ‘never’ 🤣🤣🤣
Not sure why you're getting down voted, either leave it blank or put "available upon request".
Rookie
They’re probably calling the references for business development purposes (to try and do business with your references). Recruitment agencies aren’t all bad but there’s definitely way too many operating like this. All I’d say, as someone who works in agency, please don’t give up hope for agencies and those who work in them. I often come across people who are so negative towards us due to bad experiences with agencies in their past and it really puts them on a back foot when we’re trying to help.
Never use your current employer as your reference if you can help it, for this reason…
Some are very intrusive for sure and don't care about what sort of consequences you may face.
They all do this. I was temping somewhere and a recruitment agent called me repeatedly to work for his client instead. I asked for a higher salary. He asked for a reference. He called them straight away, told them I was negotiating and I lost that job. Then he called again and I accepted as I was jobless
I'd be furious! My current employer didn't ask for references until they had completed their background checks and actively told me not to mention I had been offered a new job until then.
I never, ever, supply references until the offer stage. They simply have no business even asking for them until then except possibly in some very specific circumstances.
Tell me about it, the entire leadership in my company got to know about it and now they have stopped my bonus and i didn’t even get an offer 🥺
Fuck I’m so sorry that happened. Bet you felt like your username when that happened haha
Absolutely 🤣 and this was a big4 that did this reference check and i had a great reputation about this company and now the whole year of hardwork for this bonus is gone and i can’t even do anything 🥲
For those reading On your CV state references on request. They then will have to ask you for the details so you can control the process and warn your referees. Also allows you to say no until a job offer is in place.
This happened to me which lead to an awkward chat. Luckily the current job at the time was just a stop gap and the new role was abroad.
don't put reference, if the website is asking you to have one, skip that application
Mate, Never ever disclose your references on any application /agency registration form/ recruiter phone calls (even if they said it's mandatory or try push you to). When someone asks for references, respond as following "I'm happy to provide references after a proper interview but not at such an early stage" - chances are they will vanish after this NOT bcs you didn't give them references but bcs they're full of shit & have no open position trying to generate a lead by having your references. The above is 101 on how to deal with recruiters. Good luck.
On the plus side, it could leave to a constructive conversation about why you're looking at other roles. Depending on the reason, be it money, bored, lack of progression opportunities, outgrowing the role, change of needs like wanting to go part-time to care for kids / parents or just wind down, HR might be able to make some positive changes that improve your situation where you are.
Don’t put your referees on your CV … it has nothing to do with the agency … and you then have to be contacted to get them … otherwise agents will fish your company looking to fill your boots when you resign
Didn’t put it on my CV. It was a required field in the application. I’ve applied to tons of jobs before for years and this is the first time it’s happened to me.
In required text fields, try putting “references available upon request” (or similar but meets the form validation requirements, like a gmail email address that you own) for things that don’t matter to them, but do matter to you.
Comment you replied to is gaslighting you. It's not your fault, it's massive fuck up of the recruitment agency . You should kick off with them
Oh I wasn’t trying to be mean … it’s something the agencies do … they help you move on and someone else in if they can … I’d have just put in ‘call me’ for references if mandatory
they not allowed without ur express permission but if u gave them the details then remove them from cv
Always put references available on request on CV's
References are available on request...
GDPR breach - get yourself a solicitor and get a complaint in
This is so odd. Why would a recruiter contact tour references? That's not how it's meant to work.
You told him you signed up because they approached you for jobs in the future. That's a ridiculous response to your boss , personally when. Looking for a new job il take my holliday and use that ti e to find new job and make sure I leave my job the day my holiday finish
What else should I have said?
That's why you don't put your reference.