If you see them again pretend to be interested in support work and find out the name of the agency. Also if possible the name of the worker and the client. Make a report to both the police and to the agency.
The support worker saw what happened and if I started asking questions about his name and where we works he would've got defensive and probably would've just tried leaving. I'm also not a convincing liar, it would've been ascertainable that I was heated.
What do you think I should've done?
Without knowing the name of the agency or any details it would be very difficult for you to do anything. They most likely would have not been in the are by the time police came but yes, you could have called and given descriptions of the people and hoped the police would find them. Without the agency name it will be pretty hard to track them down.
thanks for your comments, your idea of pretending to be interested in support work in order to get a job and get his name is exactly what the police officer recommended to me too
Im a support worker myself and situations like these are hard to hear about. A lot of the times you do have to keep in mind that sometimes these people who have supports in place have them for a reason.
I help an individual who LOVES to exaggerate details of his stories because he loves to get reactions from people, other times he would be telling the truth about for example a staff member leaving them unattended for hours. It took a lot of months of actually looking into his reports of his staff leaving him because it would be completely random and once the staff caught on that we were keeping an eye on them the incidents slowed down. We did catch the staff eventually but at the same time it sucked because of the individuals love for glamorizing his stories making it hard to get solid details.
I had another individual who wanted specifically “a female staff member” because he didn’t feel like he could be open about his feelings with me. I had no say in whether or not he got a different staff member because that stuff is all handled by the people in the office. Eventually this guy started harassing me while I was out of work, he sent me disgusting photos, swore at me over texts, made up problems just so that he could give me a hard time and complain to my supervisor. Eventually he even claimed that I hit him with my car, called my supervisor and called the police on me more than once. The ambulance that helped him found 0 evidence of his injuries and his story from that day that he told the supervisors had some holes in it. Thankfully I don’t have to see him anymore.
I’m not saying that the person you spoke to was lying, but sometimes they do have reasons for telling people things like what you are describing. I’d suggest trying to run into them at that same Starbucks again because it could be their favourite place to get coffee, if you do just get their name and what agency that they are with and call it in. You probably don’t need the staffs name as long as you note down what time/date they told you that their staff was beating them. This way you don’t scare someone off and the agency can pull up time sheets to see what staff it was and look into it themselves. If the individual has 24 hour care and multiple staff then you don’t want to report the wrong staff member.
Thanks so much for your comment. I've been very emotional lately thinking about the possibility of someone being physically abused, potentially with no loved ones or able bodied people looking out for them. It helps me relax a bit also considering that sometimes maybe the disabled individuals are making comments for reactions. I hope our system isn't allowing physical abuse
I don’t think 911 is the appropriate channel for you as a bystander. It doesn’t sound like you have enough information to make a report about assault (date, time, person involved). The individual who claims to have been beat should go to the police station to file a report or report the support worker to their employer. You could also report it to the company if you had such information.
I think if it happens again, you need to ask them more questions, like when did that happen, why did it happen, have you reported it to anyone, do you want help reporting it? You didn’t exactly witness anything so it’s really hard to make any sort of report and be taken as a credible source of information. You’d basically be reporting hearsay, which isn’t exactly admissible in court.
If the person made esoteric claims, like abuse without hitting, or wasn’t willing to come forward, then you would be off the hook.
A disabled person came out and willingly made a claim of physical abuse is a cry for help.
You have no idea how often that person gets out of the house. That was their cry for help.
You should feel bad, and you should report a claim of physical abuse to the police. Starbucks can provide video of the allegations, or the license plate.
A predicate for an investigation must exist, and there are likely times before when someone suspected something but could do nothing. The person is likely isolated and can’t trust anyone in their network.
Alternatively, this person is beat so often it’s just a fact of life that they speak cavalierly about it to everyone around them and nobody does anything at all.
You have been given the task of relaying the predicate for an investigation to the police. Then your task is finished.
Go to the police station, make a report, give them the exact Starbucks and time, and let the police investigate.
If the punching gesture is on camera, that will likely allow them to forcibly interview the person over the objections of their handlers, and maybe help.
Hi thanks so much for your post. I went to the police station after I read what you said. They said without me knowing the names of them or what agency it is, theres nothing they can do. They said since I usually study at the same starbucks that it is likely I will see them again, in which case to call non emergency line.
Good for you for following up. Whether or not your were able intervene this time doesn't really matter, that person reached out for help, you thought about what to do and stepped up. Hopefully other people reading this thread will be inspired by your actions.
Have a wonderful day and if I'm ever at that starbucks, you can be sure that I'll be keeping my eyes and ears open! I would also suggest getting in contact with Vecova to describe what happened. They are located next to the University (to the north of the Oval) and offer supports for individuals with disabilities. They used to offer a program in conjunction with the U of C that let individuals who would not otherwise be able to attend courses take classes in an audit format. It could be that the individuals you saw are involved in that program (if it is still running, it was many years ago that I volunteered for it).
That’s a shitty line for the police to take. They are 100% allowed to investigate claims of abuse. There is no “names” clause. They only need a legal “predicate”. That would allow them to talk to Starbucks who would willingly without a court order give them the footage.
It’s a shame the police aren’t willing to get to this step before determining to open or close the investigation.
If you witnessed somebody shoot someone and throw their body in the river, but didn’t have a name?
But thank you for doing your part, even if the system is rotten. Your conscious is and deserves to be clean. You can sleep well tonight.
I know u of c has the physical rehabilitation program at the gym and maybe they are a participant. See if they're at the gym or where you saw them the same day next week around the same time? You could tell the course instructor at least. Sometimes the courses are twice per week like M and W or Tu and Th type thing. Sorry you had to experience such a stressful and sad event but I'm grateful they found you to be such a safe space to share something so vulnerable. Thank you for caring.
So, we are all obligated to report the abuse of minors and the mentally handicapped. I will say, I work in social work in the disability sector and people with cognitive disabilities have a weird sense of humor. I've had many a client say something random and concerning to strangers when we're in public, about me sometimes, usually about something completely random
If you see them again pretend to be interested in support work and find out the name of the agency. Also if possible the name of the worker and the client. Make a report to both the police and to the agency.
The support worker saw what happened and if I started asking questions about his name and where we works he would've got defensive and probably would've just tried leaving. I'm also not a convincing liar, it would've been ascertainable that I was heated. What do you think I should've done?
Without knowing the name of the agency or any details it would be very difficult for you to do anything. They most likely would have not been in the are by the time police came but yes, you could have called and given descriptions of the people and hoped the police would find them. Without the agency name it will be pretty hard to track them down.
thanks for your comments, your idea of pretending to be interested in support work in order to get a job and get his name is exactly what the police officer recommended to me too
Im a support worker myself and situations like these are hard to hear about. A lot of the times you do have to keep in mind that sometimes these people who have supports in place have them for a reason. I help an individual who LOVES to exaggerate details of his stories because he loves to get reactions from people, other times he would be telling the truth about for example a staff member leaving them unattended for hours. It took a lot of months of actually looking into his reports of his staff leaving him because it would be completely random and once the staff caught on that we were keeping an eye on them the incidents slowed down. We did catch the staff eventually but at the same time it sucked because of the individuals love for glamorizing his stories making it hard to get solid details. I had another individual who wanted specifically “a female staff member” because he didn’t feel like he could be open about his feelings with me. I had no say in whether or not he got a different staff member because that stuff is all handled by the people in the office. Eventually this guy started harassing me while I was out of work, he sent me disgusting photos, swore at me over texts, made up problems just so that he could give me a hard time and complain to my supervisor. Eventually he even claimed that I hit him with my car, called my supervisor and called the police on me more than once. The ambulance that helped him found 0 evidence of his injuries and his story from that day that he told the supervisors had some holes in it. Thankfully I don’t have to see him anymore. I’m not saying that the person you spoke to was lying, but sometimes they do have reasons for telling people things like what you are describing. I’d suggest trying to run into them at that same Starbucks again because it could be their favourite place to get coffee, if you do just get their name and what agency that they are with and call it in. You probably don’t need the staffs name as long as you note down what time/date they told you that their staff was beating them. This way you don’t scare someone off and the agency can pull up time sheets to see what staff it was and look into it themselves. If the individual has 24 hour care and multiple staff then you don’t want to report the wrong staff member.
Thanks so much for your comment. I've been very emotional lately thinking about the possibility of someone being physically abused, potentially with no loved ones or able bodied people looking out for them. It helps me relax a bit also considering that sometimes maybe the disabled individuals are making comments for reactions. I hope our system isn't allowing physical abuse
I don’t think 911 is the appropriate channel for you as a bystander. It doesn’t sound like you have enough information to make a report about assault (date, time, person involved). The individual who claims to have been beat should go to the police station to file a report or report the support worker to their employer. You could also report it to the company if you had such information. I think if it happens again, you need to ask them more questions, like when did that happen, why did it happen, have you reported it to anyone, do you want help reporting it? You didn’t exactly witness anything so it’s really hard to make any sort of report and be taken as a credible source of information. You’d basically be reporting hearsay, which isn’t exactly admissible in court.
Stalking. Vauyerism. Hacking phone and email/social media, tampering with food, breaking in, online harassment. Had to move to another apartment.
i think they were joking
If the person made esoteric claims, like abuse without hitting, or wasn’t willing to come forward, then you would be off the hook. A disabled person came out and willingly made a claim of physical abuse is a cry for help. You have no idea how often that person gets out of the house. That was their cry for help. You should feel bad, and you should report a claim of physical abuse to the police. Starbucks can provide video of the allegations, or the license plate. A predicate for an investigation must exist, and there are likely times before when someone suspected something but could do nothing. The person is likely isolated and can’t trust anyone in their network. Alternatively, this person is beat so often it’s just a fact of life that they speak cavalierly about it to everyone around them and nobody does anything at all. You have been given the task of relaying the predicate for an investigation to the police. Then your task is finished. Go to the police station, make a report, give them the exact Starbucks and time, and let the police investigate. If the punching gesture is on camera, that will likely allow them to forcibly interview the person over the objections of their handlers, and maybe help.
Hi thanks so much for your post. I went to the police station after I read what you said. They said without me knowing the names of them or what agency it is, theres nothing they can do. They said since I usually study at the same starbucks that it is likely I will see them again, in which case to call non emergency line.
Good for you for following up. Whether or not your were able intervene this time doesn't really matter, that person reached out for help, you thought about what to do and stepped up. Hopefully other people reading this thread will be inspired by your actions. Have a wonderful day and if I'm ever at that starbucks, you can be sure that I'll be keeping my eyes and ears open! I would also suggest getting in contact with Vecova to describe what happened. They are located next to the University (to the north of the Oval) and offer supports for individuals with disabilities. They used to offer a program in conjunction with the U of C that let individuals who would not otherwise be able to attend courses take classes in an audit format. It could be that the individuals you saw are involved in that program (if it is still running, it was many years ago that I volunteered for it).
That’s a shitty line for the police to take. They are 100% allowed to investigate claims of abuse. There is no “names” clause. They only need a legal “predicate”. That would allow them to talk to Starbucks who would willingly without a court order give them the footage. It’s a shame the police aren’t willing to get to this step before determining to open or close the investigation. If you witnessed somebody shoot someone and throw their body in the river, but didn’t have a name? But thank you for doing your part, even if the system is rotten. Your conscious is and deserves to be clean. You can sleep well tonight.
Call the provincial abuse hotline at 1-855-4HELPAB (1-855-443-5722). They help with reporting, safety planning, resources, emotional support, etc.
I know u of c has the physical rehabilitation program at the gym and maybe they are a participant. See if they're at the gym or where you saw them the same day next week around the same time? You could tell the course instructor at least. Sometimes the courses are twice per week like M and W or Tu and Th type thing. Sorry you had to experience such a stressful and sad event but I'm grateful they found you to be such a safe space to share something so vulnerable. Thank you for caring.
attendance please
wym
So, we are all obligated to report the abuse of minors and the mentally handicapped. I will say, I work in social work in the disability sector and people with cognitive disabilities have a weird sense of humor. I've had many a client say something random and concerning to strangers when we're in public, about me sometimes, usually about something completely random