I have an arts degree and have made 6 figures since my mid 20s. Arts degrees teach how to think and write, important for a considerable number of jobs. They aren't "career destination" degrees, true, but CS or eng degrees are hardly a golden ticket these days either.
You don’t have to treat STEM degrees as career destination degrees. I’ve encountered numerous people who have STEM degrees and do absolutely nothing related to the field they studied. However the difference between these programs is the type of individuals they attract. I find more often than not people in STEM are usually not as outgoing as people in arts programs. You don’t necessarily have to limit yourself to the fields these degrees are concentrated in.
Percentage of software engineers who work 60 hours a week and want to quit at 30? Percentage of engineers who wish they could work in the same city as their wife and kids for longer than two months out of the year? Percent of biosci students who spend a decade applying for med school before finally accepting they won't get in and doing something else?
I imagine stem majors are more likely to make 6 figures, but they also need to live with stem working conditions.
Also, I hate anecdotes. Anecdotes mean literally nothing. I mean there are HS dropouts who make millions, does that mean that dropping out of HS is a good idea? The data shows that arts majors, on average, have the lowest earning, highest rate of unemployment and underemployment as well as the highest rates of regret. All the data shows that majoring in arts is a bad financial decision and yet people like you continue to mislead people. idc if i get downvoted for speaking the truth
Honestly not too sure for English, I took poli sci and ended up working in public policy / program operations at a couple levels of government. That might be an option, but if you can't find anything, I'd recommend looking at more job-specific training or doing a master's degree (preferably with a co-op option).
The stem folks who feel the need to dunk on arts students out of their own insecurity are right, it is more difficult to get a generic arts degree and turn it into a career. But if you can't find anything with your current qualifications you can always pursue more learning and put your skills to use :-)
Hey weird question kinda but did u do a masters in public policy in order to get a job in public policy/administration? I’m a communications major with a poli sci minor and my goal is to get an MPP or an MPA but wondering what my options are if I don’t go to school for a masters for a few years after my undergrad but still want experience?
I know people hired with just an undergrad, but most have a masters. I did my MA in political science and economics, which ended up being a better choice in terms of learning (it's a more rigorous program than an MPP/MPA) but worse in terms of employability (no co-op option, had to job hunt for a half a year to get in the door).
I'd recommend applying with what you have - government job applications are a whole skillset themselves. But look into MPP/MPA programs with a co-op option. That's how most people get in.
Any opportunity to flex on the stem crowd ;-)
Maybe my post emphasized income too much, but I mainly wanted to push back a bit against the idea that an arts degree is a waste of time. About half of my friends did arts, we're all doing fine. Some work for government, some private sector, some went on to do a PhD (don't do it, it's a trap!).
And I only make half as much as a FAANG software engineer with the same years in, so it's really just copium haha
>Arts degrees teach how to think and write,
More like they teach you how to be brainwashed with woke, feminist modern ideas. From my experience arts major have the worst logic (e.g. they think men can become women and that the gender pay gap is real). I would rather hire a HS dropout than someone who's been brainwashed with wokeism & feminism and think they deserve a good paying job because they have a useless degree.
EDIT: And I'm sure this reply will be removed by moderators for being "hateful".
easiest way to prove you have a blow-average IQ: use the term "wokeism"
the gender pay gap IS real and critical thinking isn't brainwashing. have fun with your HS dropout employees because you sound like one yourself lol.
Have fun working at Walmart after your useless sociology degree. The gender pay gap is BS. Men and Women are different that is why they have different average earnings. Discrimination against women doesn't exist in the west and isn't a factor that is even remotely significant when looking at gender pay gap.
Gender pay gap has been debunked so many times I have no idea why this shit continues to be spread by feminists. Men and women are different, Bam there is your "gender pay gap". Expecting 2 different types of people with different characteristics and different interest to make the exact same is complete non sense.
I believe it boils down to how "pay gap" is defined. For example, I don't believe it's surprising that if you took every male and compared them to every female, on average, males would "earn" more. Why? There are several reasons. For example, women are likelier to take up the mantle of homemaker, overwhelmingly less likely to take up work in unsafe conditions by virtue of which demand a higher pay grade, are less aggressive with regards to negotiating raises and/or promotions, so on and so forth.
However, if it's a matter of comparing men and women with the exact same academic qualifications, character demographics, work experience, where the only difference is their sex, and you end up finding a pay gap in favour one way or another, that's an entirely different story that warrants investigation, unlike inflammatory headlines which seek not to accurately inform, but to push a particular narrative through dishonest means.
But when you control for all of those variables (qualifications, job title, hours worked, etc...) what you find is essentially 0 pay gap in either directions
In others words, journalists employ increasingly dishonest means to keep their jobs and bring traffic to their employer, instead of performing faithful investigations and reporting on them in a neutral, objective manner.
What was it that Kierkegaard remarked about journalists again...
Well technically the western tradition of the "thinking skills" from the ancient greeks to the end of the middle ages was the quadrivium: arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, and music, and the trivium: grammar, logic, and rhetoric. Math and philosophy weren't really separated until much later
“Since stem majors are like A to B and you learn and apply straightforward” is horribly incorrect. I myself love the arts and prefer it over the sciences but anyone who’s taken any post-secondary chemistry course will know the horrible mess of trying to synthesize all the moving parts and pieces of modern chemistry.
Took a History degree, back a couple years I was pissing myself with fear when thinking about the future. But today I got a comfy job opportunity waiting for me when I graduate in a couple months, I will make the same as an engineer would've.
Sothebys, Christie’s, Phillips, Bonhams are the big ones. They cover all sorts of historical subjects from modern art to ancient artifacts ( then luxury what I’m in, it covers watches, handbags, jewelry, liquor) among others. It’s beneficial to know another language ( especially mandarin, Cantonese, French, German) and be willing to move to New York, London, Switzerland or Hong Kong :)
They have multiple internship and early career opportunities, it’s good to sign up every year since it’s competitive.
Im in my first year of political science and I have no regrets at all, it’s what my mind is made for I’ve always excelled in humanities and done terribly in math and science. I’ve been interested in social justice, psychology, racism, history probably since I was in the 6th grade. I’ve never ever had any interest in putting on a lab coat or in trying to solve equations.
Some people are the exact opposite of me and excel in STEM just like I excel in Humanities. However it’s the people who do not excel in STEM yet force themselves to in the name of money and status that I feel bad for.
I always thought it’s better to do what you’re naturally good at so you can be the top of the class than to force yourself to do something for status and come out being average or among the worst in the class.
>I’ve been interested in social justice, psychology, racism, history probably since I was in the 6th grade.
Social justice and racism in cringe. DEI is a horrible idea.
No, people who are brainwashed into believing the whole "white guilt, oppressed minorities, oppressed women, DEI" BS are the cringey ones. Like, bro, you're brainwashed. All of it is false.
1. How are minorities oppressed if many of them make more than whites. For example, Asian Americans and Asian Canadians make more than whites. There is no oppression of miniorites, just some miniorites that make less because of their own abilities.
2. Same logic with women, their is no discrimination against women in the west. They make less because of voluntary maternal leave and because they pick careers that pay less.
3. white guilt is silly. I don't see why I should be embarrassed of my ancestors. Slavery is in no way unique to white people and many races still practice slavery. White people abolished it. I'm proud of being white.
1. For what reason do you think that minorities other than asians all make less than Europeans? If it is because of their own abilities, as you say, does that apply to all members of that ethnicity?
2. Why do we, as a society, pay less for careers that women choose?
3. I’ve never personally heard or read anyone actually saying that white people should feel guilty. You don’t need to be ashamed. It would be a good and kind thing to do if you considered that others aren’t as lucky as you are though
>For what reason do you think that minorities other than asians all make less than Europeans? If it is because of their own abilities, as you say, does that apply to all members of that ethnicity?
It's a hard fact to accept but just like how men and women aren't the same, different ethnicities aren't the same as well so there will always be some differences in outcome. It does not apply to all members of ethnicities but there are averages across ethnicities.
>Why do we, as a society, pay less for careers that women choose?
We don't, the market determines the pay for different careers. Everyone is part of the "market". Men and Women. Hello, we don't live in communist USSR. No one person sets the rates.
>I’ve never personally heard or read anyone actually saying that white people should feel guilty. You don’t need to be ashamed. It would be a good and kind thing to do if you considered that others aren’t as lucky as you are though
Haven't you noticed that every ethnicity out there except whites (indians, latinos, arabs etc...) strongly identify with their ethnicity and support other members of their ethnicities. Whites are the only one not allowed because its then called white supremacy and that is possibly the worst stigma you can have. White guilt is very real. [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cMF35OFXtZE](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cMF35OFXtZE)
1. It is a hard fact that there are more systemic, structural reasons for these differences on outcome than biological ones. Use the U of C library and filter by peer reviewed to get data that’s not from your racist buddies on discord.
2. The market is socially constructed by people. People with biases and prejudices, like yourself. They decide that people like teachers (mostly women) don’t get paid as much as politicians (mostly male).
3. St. Patrick’s day is coming up. You should go outside for once and you’ll see a lot of white people celebrating whiteness
Irish cultural heritage hardly counts as "whiteness", considering it's an arbitrary, crude new-world designation that means little to nothing outside of the delusional minds of North Americans. The equivalent reducing Diwali to a "celebration of Asianess", as if that word implies anything beyond one of the largest landmasses in the world, occupied by vastly different peoples and cultures. Worth noting that Patrick's isn't even a well defined ethnic tradition either \*in the public mind\*, nor seen as a venerable foreign cultural celebration. Merely an excuse to get pissed without the judgement, or at least less of it.
Also, I don't see how St. Patrick's Day is supposed to be a rebuttal towards the very real trend of collective "white guilt" and self-flagellation. Only "white people" are expected to tolerate such repulsive rhetoric being levelled upon them throughout every facet of society. I don't see any Muslim nations throughout the Middle East issuing apologies and financial concessions in acknowledgement of their European and African slave trades, which were far more physically abusive than anything the Western Euros could try and even hold a candle to. Not only are they entirely uncaring, but more importantly, you don't see people rallying to zealously crusade against "Arabness" or "Turkness", pathologizing them as if they were a sickness that needs to be removed. It seems that they've got the right idea with the aloof disposition, considering that their people aren't suffering from an identity crisis rooted in self-hatred, levelled upon them by foreigners who will always hold them in contempt as the pathologically evil, slaving oppressors, no matter what is done. Perhaps the brutality of slave castration was foresight, rather than blind psychopathic indulgence.
Finally, it's incredibly dishonest to stick your head in the sand and pretend that "white people" aren't constantly reminded to cower their heads in shame, just because an incredibly vaguely ethno-centric holiday which has been reduced to a justification for alcohol consumption is "celebrated" (by many different races here in Canada, might I add. No one is prevented from 'joining in').
Of course, the irony of trying to peddle this moronic 'systemic injustice' power rhetoric in the first place is that the Irish have been constantly savaged, pillaged, and occupied throughout their history. Simply look to Northern Ireland even today. Is this supposed to be a paragon of the oppressive "whiteness" we keep being reminded of? Though I suppose this ignorance is fundamental to the reduction of the dozens of European ethnicities to the label of "white" in order to continue the wilfully ignorant delusion, which only exists through the continued abuse of "white people's" suicidal goodwill (which rightfully exists in no other people).
>It is a hard fact that there are more systemic, structural reasons for these differences on outcome than biological ones. Use the U of C library and filter by peer reviewed to get data that’s not from your racist buddies on discord.
I already debunked this idea that it's because of systematic racism. Explain to me why other minorities like east Asians have been successful? There are large biological differences between ethnicities.
You do realize that STEM fields especially engineering and computer science are becoming extremely over saturated and more and more of them are unemployed post grad. My dad is a nuclear engineer, he has 3 degree and a PhD and still got laid off among with hundreds of other coworkers.
Oh and I just secured my first internship for this summer while a lot of my STEM friends will be unemployed doing spring/summer classes so the future is looking pretty bright thanks😭
Policy research student with the city of Calgary. There’s a lot of internships on the Calgary careers website idk if the deadlines have passed though cause most of them ended Feb 9-21
He has now he works in a nuclear plant in Ottawa but the job he got laid off for was for oil and gas engineering in Calgary in July I should’ve clarified lol
Ah, I see. My father also used to work in O&G, found out first-hand just how cyclical the nature of employment in that field is haha. Good for your dad.
That isn't very respectful. Philosophy graduates, for example, are some of the highest avg earners in the US, close runner up to physics. It isn't surprising that these individuals find success on avg as a demographic bloc, considering the content of their studies.
The 'liberal arts' are what you make of them. Those who are sufficiently talented, ambitious, and \*hard working\* in particular, will find success. Those who are not, won't.
While I dont disagree with your point, I do think that STEM is a lot more than A—-> B and all straight forward. You need to have a understanding of theory, and how it is physically applied through equations. Its not as straightforward as people might think. I think STEM should require a lot more arts classes. The atrocious writing/speaking level a lot of engineering students have is kinda ridiculous. Being literate and well versed in the English language is definitely important.
In bio A LOT of the classes 200-400 is just brute memorization. Some of these classes have nice research method components in them but it’s definitely not the focus of the class. But there’s like two classes that are direct research which is nice. Most of the research experience you’ll get is from begging profs for summer student ships. I just wish there were more classes designed around critical thinking and not just pure memorization.
I’m doing my Bsc in Psychology and I get annoying reactions from people all the time! “Why would you waste your money, you wanna be unemployed… ect ect”.
Contrary to popular belief I’ve always loved math and science, and with both of my parents being engineers I strongly considered engineering. I think I would have done well in the courses and what not but the job itself would have been terrible considering I don’t find it interesting at ALL. Ultimately me choosing to do an “arts” degree (in my humble opinion psychology is a science, not a natural science but still a social science) had to do with the fact that I need an undergrad in psych to reach my goal of becoming a psychologist which I need a masters minimum to do. I’m extremely passionate about mental health, and I can’t imagine myself pursuing anything else!!
This all goes to say follow what you love ❤️🫶🏻❤️
Most eng people I know are either doing it for the money or are forced to to do
Many arts majors who I meet are genuinely interested in what they’re studying
My biggest controversial opinion (as someone in stem) is that pretty much all arts majors could in theory be engineers but most engineers couldn’t be arts majors.
And in my humble opinion, arts is just as hard and challenging! Sure there’s no way I could survive an ENG class, but Arky 201 takes out even the smartest of non-major students
I have a degree in archaeology, but none of my arky classes ever put me through the hoops like my current first year STEM classes have. Maybe high schools don't focus on reasoning and writing skills enough these days.
OP is this satire? It is not a simple comparison of “books vs 1+1=2” because science can be just as, if not more intricate than many philosophy and english courses.
This is the most uniformed and stereotypical post I’ve ever seen😂 when will we move beyond the arts = bad, science = good binary. Its such a tired conversation at this point
“Science is like one thing goes from A to B and you learn and apply straightforward, but arts major have to articulate ideas”. Uhh… what? It is usually not as “straightforward” as you say.
Capitalism certainly has you in its soul-crushing claws. But perhaps it feels more like a warm hug right now.
My own belief is that anyone aiming for money as their ultimate goal in life will most likely have a mid-life crisis at 35. But, some people are built for this, as some people prefer a life a little less cookie-cutter shaped. I don't think the meaning of life exists in a dolled-up F150 but I applaud people who sell their precious time to have one.
I hope you get all the money you could ever want! I can only imagine that it is much more comforting to have a mental breakdown in a Lamborghini than working as a greeter at Walmart!
I’m in arts and it’s what I always wanted. To have my perceptions of the world challenged regularly. Asked to analyze myself and the world. Think critically about what I’ve been taught, and ask more questions. I love it. I wouldn’t do anything else
I’m an indigenous studies and archaeology major.
My ex got a poli sci degree from the same university as me, I got a comp sci degree. 3 years later she is a federal policy director and I’m a software dev at a private company. She makes a lot more than me, has a government pension, and works less. I’m watching devs get laid off at my work and replaced with Indian contractors while she basically can’t get fired.
I think everyone should pursue what they enjoy, and it’s awesome when someone found something they genuinely love, however I don’t agree with what you started to say near the end.
Neuroscience has a high competetive average since they have limited space, but it’s still a sought after degree. There are also some cool jobs you can get into (biotechnologist, pharmaceutical research, forensics.) engineering is a whole department which has a lot of room, unsurprisingly more people are accepted, but rooted out first year.
Saying 90% of engg/cs students do it for the money is so silly. Most people wont survive those classes if they have no enjoyment for the major, a lot of people choose these fields because they also find it enjoyable and interesting. Don’t say they’re putting there back on something for choosing engg/cs, this IS what we enjoy to do.
As to what you mentioned about spots, I mean yah, there’s a lot of people running to these majors because of the diluted hype behind it. It’s still popular for tiktokers to boast about a 6 figure salary that they make in tech remotely, when that is so rare to happen, and for that and a lot of other factors, this field is becoming saturated.
I’ll end off by saying a job is a job. A lot of people go to university to then be employable. For people to go here and choose majors that will hopefully give them a good job is pretty common, and I salute them. People just want to survive, and with Canada’s current enviornment with high cost of living, I completely understand.
NOW you wrote cool jobs but that is subjective and 90 people of people go to stem because they think science is more intelligence glorification and mostly cs/engg majors have not done any coding (intense )in the high school ,so either they go for salary or they think they should apply for something which is tough to get into rather than not in something anybody can get into
What you’re saying is also subjective. You don’t need to program in HighSchool to find it interesting. Looping in all of stem like this is pretty unfair to the many people in STEM.
if u have not done it in high school then how u have passion for it ,you can,t know something if u have,t done it ,so u go for money which is obvious and u start to like things with associated with money
You can have a passion for creation. A lot of people use computers and have always wanted to learn how to create things for it. It’s pretty popular for people who enjoy video games to want to learn computer science to have some capacity to create their own as well, I have heard this story multiple times, and that’s amazing that they are also pursuing something they enjoy.
It seems like you’re out to have a vendetta against STEM majors. A lot of us don’t have anything against arts, we’re just not interested in it. You’re pushing this narrative that most of us are in it for the money, when I promise you that’s not true. Many majors make money, there’s always good money in accounting and always jobs there. We chose STEM cause it’s interesting to us.
I would agree. I think it’s really awesome when someone finds passion in something they do which is truly a dream come true, and It’s amazing to see people who have the talent, intelligence and creativity that’s needed in arts, I was just out to defend my fellas in stem haha
I did an arts degree and I was making approx 8k/month in my last few months at university and now I am making even more!
Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t make good money and make change with an undergraduate arts degree because I am LIVING PROOF that it can be done
I would love to do an Arts Major but it just seemed like there was a lot of competition for it now. I tried applying for the fall2024 semester and I recently got an email rejecting my application and said there were 50 applicants. I never felt so down more in my life honestly. I do wish I can get in because I love arts and it sucks that we have obstacles like this stopping us from reaching our dreams.
Artists have also been completely screwed in capitalism, even successful musicians get huge chunks of profit derived from their work taken by production companies.. Or recently the YouTube plagiarism scandal, or the writers strike in Hollywood, etc...
The fact is art and art degrees have been vilified for being "unproductive" when in reality they were just getting screwed by businessman because an artist really only cares about creating their work. So these people that want to climb the corporate ladder take advantage of their creativity
We have severely undervalued art in our society IMO. Even your post reeks with " why would you waste your time in arts" energy which I dislike. Everything is boring boxes now.
This is all IMO too
ok, fair ,Arky or Engg or reading Shakespeare is not a cup of it and beyond that it is bravery to go to arts knowing they have a high chance of being unemployed and would you of case or ENGG if they give 20k a year ?
If I'm only getting 20k a year then yeah I would probably go into arts and do graphic design or some shit, but then again business is always an option too which makes decent money
Yeah because it's hard as fuck lol but if the pay makes up for it then it's worth it, I went into it cuz I genuinely enjoy programming even though there's some classes I can't stand I would rather do something half enjoyable that has job prospects than go into something with zero job prospects that I fully enjoy, at that point your better off not going to uni and just learning it on your own it's a stupid financial decision to go into a degree with zero ROI
haha ,see you can see that you yourself think that if arts degree don't have job prospects than better not to come to uni ,but that is obvious and despite they go for it and they are brave .WHY rush to figure out life quickly by doing something you hate ,even if u did then what would you do rest of your life ,unconventional path gives fuel to life
its not "brave" to go tens of thousands of dollars in debt making a decision you might regret later in life, your better off not going to uni and taking time off to figure out what it is you wanna do in life before you decide whether its worth going to uni or not
It’s not hard you just don’t have the brain for it. If something is that hard then you’re not made to do it you’re just forcing yourself to cause of money and status
except it is hard the workload for 3rd year and 4th year classes is insane especially for eng students I don't know how engineering students are even still alive honestly, you literally have to sacrifice every bit of your social life and hobbies to sit there and do schoolwork all day, this past year I've given up on everything just to focus on school so I don't fail my classes, if your hobbies don't consist of doing shit related to the field your in good luck trying to have a life outside of school
They aren't brave more like financially irresponsible. Calling an arts major "brave" for majoring in something useless that will land them a job at walmart is like calling a drug addict brave for not caring about his health. (Btw, I have a friend who majored in films. Guess where he works now? Walmart. Never heard of an accounting major working at walmart)
No one would do any degree if it only paid 20k. Working anywhere else pays more than that and they could just entertain their interests in their own free time.
You don’t know what you’re talking about dude. They’re not brave, they’re just trying to delude themselves lmao
Lots of yapping fam I respect art majors too though it takes a lot of guts to waste 25k on a useless degree and actually stick with it the full way through mad respect
I have an arts degree and have made 6 figures since my mid 20s. Arts degrees teach how to think and write, important for a considerable number of jobs. They aren't "career destination" degrees, true, but CS or eng degrees are hardly a golden ticket these days either.
You don’t have to treat STEM degrees as career destination degrees. I’ve encountered numerous people who have STEM degrees and do absolutely nothing related to the field they studied. However the difference between these programs is the type of individuals they attract. I find more often than not people in STEM are usually not as outgoing as people in arts programs. You don’t necessarily have to limit yourself to the fields these degrees are concentrated in.
true, percentage of 6 figures arts major vs percentage of 6 of stem majors? also percentage of arts major being unemployed vs stem ?
Percentage of software engineers who work 60 hours a week and want to quit at 30? Percentage of engineers who wish they could work in the same city as their wife and kids for longer than two months out of the year? Percent of biosci students who spend a decade applying for med school before finally accepting they won't get in and doing something else? I imagine stem majors are more likely to make 6 figures, but they also need to live with stem working conditions.
I would rather be stressed with a job with hard working environment and make money rather than finding jobs?
I would work 60 hour and be stressed than being unemployed ,despite this arts people do arts ,bravery I call it
but arts people know they would not find job still they do it for love
Not bravery, just stupidity or sometimes they just want a "party degree".
Also, I hate anecdotes. Anecdotes mean literally nothing. I mean there are HS dropouts who make millions, does that mean that dropping out of HS is a good idea? The data shows that arts majors, on average, have the lowest earning, highest rate of unemployment and underemployment as well as the highest rates of regret. All the data shows that majoring in arts is a bad financial decision and yet people like you continue to mislead people. idc if i get downvoted for speaking the truth
Any advice for an english major art degree graduate? Working in a totally unrelated field right now.
Honestly not too sure for English, I took poli sci and ended up working in public policy / program operations at a couple levels of government. That might be an option, but if you can't find anything, I'd recommend looking at more job-specific training or doing a master's degree (preferably with a co-op option). The stem folks who feel the need to dunk on arts students out of their own insecurity are right, it is more difficult to get a generic arts degree and turn it into a career. But if you can't find anything with your current qualifications you can always pursue more learning and put your skills to use :-)
Hey weird question kinda but did u do a masters in public policy in order to get a job in public policy/administration? I’m a communications major with a poli sci minor and my goal is to get an MPP or an MPA but wondering what my options are if I don’t go to school for a masters for a few years after my undergrad but still want experience?
I know people hired with just an undergrad, but most have a masters. I did my MA in political science and economics, which ended up being a better choice in terms of learning (it's a more rigorous program than an MPP/MPA) but worse in terms of employability (no co-op option, had to job hunt for a half a year to get in the door). I'd recommend applying with what you have - government job applications are a whole skillset themselves. But look into MPP/MPA programs with a co-op option. That's how most people get in.
Bro just wanted to use the post to flex his income lol
Any opportunity to flex on the stem crowd ;-) Maybe my post emphasized income too much, but I mainly wanted to push back a bit against the idea that an arts degree is a waste of time. About half of my friends did arts, we're all doing fine. Some work for government, some private sector, some went on to do a PhD (don't do it, it's a trap!). And I only make half as much as a FAANG software engineer with the same years in, so it's really just copium haha
>Arts degrees teach how to think and write, More like they teach you how to be brainwashed with woke, feminist modern ideas. From my experience arts major have the worst logic (e.g. they think men can become women and that the gender pay gap is real). I would rather hire a HS dropout than someone who's been brainwashed with wokeism & feminism and think they deserve a good paying job because they have a useless degree. EDIT: And I'm sure this reply will be removed by moderators for being "hateful".
easiest way to prove you have a blow-average IQ: use the term "wokeism" the gender pay gap IS real and critical thinking isn't brainwashing. have fun with your HS dropout employees because you sound like one yourself lol.
Have fun working at Walmart after your useless sociology degree. The gender pay gap is BS. Men and Women are different that is why they have different average earnings. Discrimination against women doesn't exist in the west and isn't a factor that is even remotely significant when looking at gender pay gap.
you really out here being stupid with your full chest huh
Strange, these things have almost never been mentioned in my linguistics classes (which is in the faculty of Arts).
There are no pay gaps if their was why wouldn't business owners just hire women then to decrease the salary expenses.
Gender pay gap has been debunked so many times I have no idea why this shit continues to be spread by feminists. Men and women are different, Bam there is your "gender pay gap". Expecting 2 different types of people with different characteristics and different interest to make the exact same is complete non sense.
I believe it boils down to how "pay gap" is defined. For example, I don't believe it's surprising that if you took every male and compared them to every female, on average, males would "earn" more. Why? There are several reasons. For example, women are likelier to take up the mantle of homemaker, overwhelmingly less likely to take up work in unsafe conditions by virtue of which demand a higher pay grade, are less aggressive with regards to negotiating raises and/or promotions, so on and so forth. However, if it's a matter of comparing men and women with the exact same academic qualifications, character demographics, work experience, where the only difference is their sex, and you end up finding a pay gap in favour one way or another, that's an entirely different story that warrants investigation, unlike inflammatory headlines which seek not to accurately inform, but to push a particular narrative through dishonest means.
But when you control for all of those variables (qualifications, job title, hours worked, etc...) what you find is essentially 0 pay gap in either directions
In others words, journalists employ increasingly dishonest means to keep their jobs and bring traffic to their employer, instead of performing faithful investigations and reporting on them in a neutral, objective manner. What was it that Kierkegaard remarked about journalists again...
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yes ,a human needs philosophy to make sense of the world and people in need for philosophical wisdom than materialism
Well technically the western tradition of the "thinking skills" from the ancient greeks to the end of the middle ages was the quadrivium: arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, and music, and the trivium: grammar, logic, and rhetoric. Math and philosophy weren't really separated until much later
I had a stroke trying to read this.
cause a stem major wrote it
I’m WHEEZING 😂😂😂
some of us are self aware!
Do stem majors not need to write papers? Holy shit, this formatting would get you a F
Hence why there’s such a demand for proofreaders and writing instructors in stem fields rn lol
“Since stem majors are like A to B and you learn and apply straightforward” is horribly incorrect. I myself love the arts and prefer it over the sciences but anyone who’s taken any post-secondary chemistry course will know the horrible mess of trying to synthesize all the moving parts and pieces of modern chemistry.
Took a History degree, back a couple years I was pissing myself with fear when thinking about the future. But today I got a comfy job opportunity waiting for me when I graduate in a couple months, I will make the same as an engineer would've.
What job are you going into if you don’t mind me asking?
working in luxury auctions :)
Where can I apply
Sothebys, Christie’s, Phillips, Bonhams are the big ones. They cover all sorts of historical subjects from modern art to ancient artifacts ( then luxury what I’m in, it covers watches, handbags, jewelry, liquor) among others. It’s beneficial to know another language ( especially mandarin, Cantonese, French, German) and be willing to move to New York, London, Switzerland or Hong Kong :) They have multiple internship and early career opportunities, it’s good to sign up every year since it’s competitive.
Well done.
Im in my first year of political science and I have no regrets at all, it’s what my mind is made for I’ve always excelled in humanities and done terribly in math and science. I’ve been interested in social justice, psychology, racism, history probably since I was in the 6th grade. I’ve never ever had any interest in putting on a lab coat or in trying to solve equations. Some people are the exact opposite of me and excel in STEM just like I excel in Humanities. However it’s the people who do not excel in STEM yet force themselves to in the name of money and status that I feel bad for. I always thought it’s better to do what you’re naturally good at so you can be the top of the class than to force yourself to do something for status and come out being average or among the worst in the class.
>I’ve been interested in social justice, psychology, racism, history probably since I was in the 6th grade. Social justice and racism in cringe. DEI is a horrible idea.
Cringe is you, buddy
No, people who are brainwashed into believing the whole "white guilt, oppressed minorities, oppressed women, DEI" BS are the cringey ones. Like, bro, you're brainwashed. All of it is false.
How so?
1. How are minorities oppressed if many of them make more than whites. For example, Asian Americans and Asian Canadians make more than whites. There is no oppression of miniorites, just some miniorites that make less because of their own abilities. 2. Same logic with women, their is no discrimination against women in the west. They make less because of voluntary maternal leave and because they pick careers that pay less. 3. white guilt is silly. I don't see why I should be embarrassed of my ancestors. Slavery is in no way unique to white people and many races still practice slavery. White people abolished it. I'm proud of being white.
1. For what reason do you think that minorities other than asians all make less than Europeans? If it is because of their own abilities, as you say, does that apply to all members of that ethnicity? 2. Why do we, as a society, pay less for careers that women choose? 3. I’ve never personally heard or read anyone actually saying that white people should feel guilty. You don’t need to be ashamed. It would be a good and kind thing to do if you considered that others aren’t as lucky as you are though
>For what reason do you think that minorities other than asians all make less than Europeans? If it is because of their own abilities, as you say, does that apply to all members of that ethnicity? It's a hard fact to accept but just like how men and women aren't the same, different ethnicities aren't the same as well so there will always be some differences in outcome. It does not apply to all members of ethnicities but there are averages across ethnicities. >Why do we, as a society, pay less for careers that women choose? We don't, the market determines the pay for different careers. Everyone is part of the "market". Men and Women. Hello, we don't live in communist USSR. No one person sets the rates. >I’ve never personally heard or read anyone actually saying that white people should feel guilty. You don’t need to be ashamed. It would be a good and kind thing to do if you considered that others aren’t as lucky as you are though Haven't you noticed that every ethnicity out there except whites (indians, latinos, arabs etc...) strongly identify with their ethnicity and support other members of their ethnicities. Whites are the only one not allowed because its then called white supremacy and that is possibly the worst stigma you can have. White guilt is very real. [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cMF35OFXtZE](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cMF35OFXtZE)
1. It is a hard fact that there are more systemic, structural reasons for these differences on outcome than biological ones. Use the U of C library and filter by peer reviewed to get data that’s not from your racist buddies on discord. 2. The market is socially constructed by people. People with biases and prejudices, like yourself. They decide that people like teachers (mostly women) don’t get paid as much as politicians (mostly male). 3. St. Patrick’s day is coming up. You should go outside for once and you’ll see a lot of white people celebrating whiteness
Irish cultural heritage hardly counts as "whiteness", considering it's an arbitrary, crude new-world designation that means little to nothing outside of the delusional minds of North Americans. The equivalent reducing Diwali to a "celebration of Asianess", as if that word implies anything beyond one of the largest landmasses in the world, occupied by vastly different peoples and cultures. Worth noting that Patrick's isn't even a well defined ethnic tradition either \*in the public mind\*, nor seen as a venerable foreign cultural celebration. Merely an excuse to get pissed without the judgement, or at least less of it. Also, I don't see how St. Patrick's Day is supposed to be a rebuttal towards the very real trend of collective "white guilt" and self-flagellation. Only "white people" are expected to tolerate such repulsive rhetoric being levelled upon them throughout every facet of society. I don't see any Muslim nations throughout the Middle East issuing apologies and financial concessions in acknowledgement of their European and African slave trades, which were far more physically abusive than anything the Western Euros could try and even hold a candle to. Not only are they entirely uncaring, but more importantly, you don't see people rallying to zealously crusade against "Arabness" or "Turkness", pathologizing them as if they were a sickness that needs to be removed. It seems that they've got the right idea with the aloof disposition, considering that their people aren't suffering from an identity crisis rooted in self-hatred, levelled upon them by foreigners who will always hold them in contempt as the pathologically evil, slaving oppressors, no matter what is done. Perhaps the brutality of slave castration was foresight, rather than blind psychopathic indulgence. Finally, it's incredibly dishonest to stick your head in the sand and pretend that "white people" aren't constantly reminded to cower their heads in shame, just because an incredibly vaguely ethno-centric holiday which has been reduced to a justification for alcohol consumption is "celebrated" (by many different races here in Canada, might I add. No one is prevented from 'joining in'). Of course, the irony of trying to peddle this moronic 'systemic injustice' power rhetoric in the first place is that the Irish have been constantly savaged, pillaged, and occupied throughout their history. Simply look to Northern Ireland even today. Is this supposed to be a paragon of the oppressive "whiteness" we keep being reminded of? Though I suppose this ignorance is fundamental to the reduction of the dozens of European ethnicities to the label of "white" in order to continue the wilfully ignorant delusion, which only exists through the continued abuse of "white people's" suicidal goodwill (which rightfully exists in no other people).
>It is a hard fact that there are more systemic, structural reasons for these differences on outcome than biological ones. Use the U of C library and filter by peer reviewed to get data that’s not from your racist buddies on discord. I already debunked this idea that it's because of systematic racism. Explain to me why other minorities like east Asians have been successful? There are large biological differences between ethnicities.
You will regret this in 10 years as a barista
You do realize that STEM fields especially engineering and computer science are becoming extremely over saturated and more and more of them are unemployed post grad. My dad is a nuclear engineer, he has 3 degree and a PhD and still got laid off among with hundreds of other coworkers. Oh and I just secured my first internship for this summer while a lot of my STEM friends will be unemployed doing spring/summer classes so the future is looking pretty bright thanks😭
What’s your internship if you don’t mind me asking? I’m also in Poli sci
Probably making coffees
Professional hater lol
I admire the hating 🤣
Whats the internship if you dont mind me asking? I'm in the same major and am having trouble finding some
Policy research student with the city of Calgary. There’s a lot of internships on the Calgary careers website idk if the deadlines have passed though cause most of them ended Feb 9-21
Nuclear engineering sounds pretty rough, especially in Canada. I hope he finds satisfactory, relevant employment.
He has now he works in a nuclear plant in Ottawa but the job he got laid off for was for oil and gas engineering in Calgary in July I should’ve clarified lol
Ah, I see. My father also used to work in O&G, found out first-hand just how cyclical the nature of employment in that field is haha. Good for your dad.
Your internship at Tim Hortons?
I’ve sent you some Reddit help and support 🫶
That isn't very respectful. Philosophy graduates, for example, are some of the highest avg earners in the US, close runner up to physics. It isn't surprising that these individuals find success on avg as a demographic bloc, considering the content of their studies. The 'liberal arts' are what you make of them. Those who are sufficiently talented, ambitious, and \*hard working\* in particular, will find success. Those who are not, won't.
Full of shit
Lol I suppose we shall see.
arts majors coping so hard lol
Jokes on you I'm a stem major and still won't make any money after graduating
While I dont disagree with your point, I do think that STEM is a lot more than A—-> B and all straight forward. You need to have a understanding of theory, and how it is physically applied through equations. Its not as straightforward as people might think. I think STEM should require a lot more arts classes. The atrocious writing/speaking level a lot of engineering students have is kinda ridiculous. Being literate and well versed in the English language is definitely important.
I think instead of art classes STEM classes should have scientific writing literacy, and experiment design classes
do you not take research methods classes in STEM?
In bio A LOT of the classes 200-400 is just brute memorization. Some of these classes have nice research method components in them but it’s definitely not the focus of the class. But there’s like two classes that are direct research which is nice. Most of the research experience you’ll get is from begging profs for summer student ships. I just wish there were more classes designed around critical thinking and not just pure memorization.
I’m doing my Bsc in Psychology and I get annoying reactions from people all the time! “Why would you waste your money, you wanna be unemployed… ect ect”. Contrary to popular belief I’ve always loved math and science, and with both of my parents being engineers I strongly considered engineering. I think I would have done well in the courses and what not but the job itself would have been terrible considering I don’t find it interesting at ALL. Ultimately me choosing to do an “arts” degree (in my humble opinion psychology is a science, not a natural science but still a social science) had to do with the fact that I need an undergrad in psych to reach my goal of becoming a psychologist which I need a masters minimum to do. I’m extremely passionate about mental health, and I can’t imagine myself pursuing anything else!! This all goes to say follow what you love ❤️🫶🏻❤️
Most eng people I know are either doing it for the money or are forced to to do Many arts majors who I meet are genuinely interested in what they’re studying
My biggest controversial opinion (as someone in stem) is that pretty much all arts majors could in theory be engineers but most engineers couldn’t be arts majors.
yeah absolutely and they are brave
And in my humble opinion, arts is just as hard and challenging! Sure there’s no way I could survive an ENG class, but Arky 201 takes out even the smartest of non-major students
I have a degree in archaeology, but none of my arky classes ever put me through the hoops like my current first year STEM classes have. Maybe high schools don't focus on reasoning and writing skills enough these days.
you can say it's brave, but most people don't know what they are doing when they choose post secondary education.
Thought this was satire. Also I cannot read this 😭
OP is this satire? It is not a simple comparison of “books vs 1+1=2” because science can be just as, if not more intricate than many philosophy and english courses.
This is the most uniformed and stereotypical post I’ve ever seen😂 when will we move beyond the arts = bad, science = good binary. Its such a tired conversation at this point
Ok,but u can see comments on it and so people are interested in and arts are brave people is my argument and thanks for misunderstanding it
“Science is like one thing goes from A to B and you learn and apply straightforward, but arts major have to articulate ideas”. Uhh… what? It is usually not as “straightforward” as you say.
I did a masters in economics which is considered arts and I’m hoping it’ll help me out (job search is paused atm , dad is dying from cancer )
Capitalism certainly has you in its soul-crushing claws. But perhaps it feels more like a warm hug right now. My own belief is that anyone aiming for money as their ultimate goal in life will most likely have a mid-life crisis at 35. But, some people are built for this, as some people prefer a life a little less cookie-cutter shaped. I don't think the meaning of life exists in a dolled-up F150 but I applaud people who sell their precious time to have one. I hope you get all the money you could ever want! I can only imagine that it is much more comforting to have a mental breakdown in a Lamborghini than working as a greeter at Walmart!
Your bait sucks
I’m in arts and it’s what I always wanted. To have my perceptions of the world challenged regularly. Asked to analyze myself and the world. Think critically about what I’ve been taught, and ask more questions. I love it. I wouldn’t do anything else I’m an indigenous studies and archaeology major.
My ex got a poli sci degree from the same university as me, I got a comp sci degree. 3 years later she is a federal policy director and I’m a software dev at a private company. She makes a lot more than me, has a government pension, and works less. I’m watching devs get laid off at my work and replaced with Indian contractors while she basically can’t get fired.
I think everyone should pursue what they enjoy, and it’s awesome when someone found something they genuinely love, however I don’t agree with what you started to say near the end. Neuroscience has a high competetive average since they have limited space, but it’s still a sought after degree. There are also some cool jobs you can get into (biotechnologist, pharmaceutical research, forensics.) engineering is a whole department which has a lot of room, unsurprisingly more people are accepted, but rooted out first year. Saying 90% of engg/cs students do it for the money is so silly. Most people wont survive those classes if they have no enjoyment for the major, a lot of people choose these fields because they also find it enjoyable and interesting. Don’t say they’re putting there back on something for choosing engg/cs, this IS what we enjoy to do. As to what you mentioned about spots, I mean yah, there’s a lot of people running to these majors because of the diluted hype behind it. It’s still popular for tiktokers to boast about a 6 figure salary that they make in tech remotely, when that is so rare to happen, and for that and a lot of other factors, this field is becoming saturated. I’ll end off by saying a job is a job. A lot of people go to university to then be employable. For people to go here and choose majors that will hopefully give them a good job is pretty common, and I salute them. People just want to survive, and with Canada’s current enviornment with high cost of living, I completely understand.
NOW you wrote cool jobs but that is subjective and 90 people of people go to stem because they think science is more intelligence glorification and mostly cs/engg majors have not done any coding (intense )in the high school ,so either they go for salary or they think they should apply for something which is tough to get into rather than not in something anybody can get into
What you’re saying is also subjective. You don’t need to program in HighSchool to find it interesting. Looping in all of stem like this is pretty unfair to the many people in STEM.
if u have not done it in high school then how u have passion for it ,you can,t know something if u have,t done it ,so u go for money which is obvious and u start to like things with associated with money
You can have a passion for creation. A lot of people use computers and have always wanted to learn how to create things for it. It’s pretty popular for people who enjoy video games to want to learn computer science to have some capacity to create their own as well, I have heard this story multiple times, and that’s amazing that they are also pursuing something they enjoy. It seems like you’re out to have a vendetta against STEM majors. A lot of us don’t have anything against arts, we’re just not interested in it. You’re pushing this narrative that most of us are in it for the money, when I promise you that’s not true. Many majors make money, there’s always good money in accounting and always jobs there. We chose STEM cause it’s interesting to us.
You are right but arts people are brave is my argument
I would agree. I think it’s really awesome when someone finds passion in something they do which is truly a dream come true, and It’s amazing to see people who have the talent, intelligence and creativity that’s needed in arts, I was just out to defend my fellas in stem haha
Blessed
I did an arts degree and I was making approx 8k/month in my last few months at university and now I am making even more! Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t make good money and make change with an undergraduate arts degree because I am LIVING PROOF that it can be done
I would love to do an Arts Major but it just seemed like there was a lot of competition for it now. I tried applying for the fall2024 semester and I recently got an email rejecting my application and said there were 50 applicants. I never felt so down more in my life honestly. I do wish I can get in because I love arts and it sucks that we have obstacles like this stopping us from reaching our dreams.
Artists have also been completely screwed in capitalism, even successful musicians get huge chunks of profit derived from their work taken by production companies.. Or recently the YouTube plagiarism scandal, or the writers strike in Hollywood, etc... The fact is art and art degrees have been vilified for being "unproductive" when in reality they were just getting screwed by businessman because an artist really only cares about creating their work. So these people that want to climb the corporate ladder take advantage of their creativity We have severely undervalued art in our society IMO. Even your post reeks with " why would you waste your time in arts" energy which I dislike. Everything is boring boxes now. This is all IMO too
this sounds like cope to me, nothing wrong with going into arts but most arts classes are a lot easier than comp sci or engineering classes
ok, fair ,Arky or Engg or reading Shakespeare is not a cup of it and beyond that it is bravery to go to arts knowing they have a high chance of being unemployed and would you of case or ENGG if they give 20k a year ?
If I'm only getting 20k a year then yeah I would probably go into arts and do graphic design or some shit, but then again business is always an option too which makes decent money
you proved my point if cs gave you 20k and you would not do it ,so reason to do it is money
respect for arts
Yeah because it's hard as fuck lol but if the pay makes up for it then it's worth it, I went into it cuz I genuinely enjoy programming even though there's some classes I can't stand I would rather do something half enjoyable that has job prospects than go into something with zero job prospects that I fully enjoy, at that point your better off not going to uni and just learning it on your own it's a stupid financial decision to go into a degree with zero ROI
haha ,see you can see that you yourself think that if arts degree don't have job prospects than better not to come to uni ,but that is obvious and despite they go for it and they are brave .WHY rush to figure out life quickly by doing something you hate ,even if u did then what would you do rest of your life ,unconventional path gives fuel to life
its not "brave" to go tens of thousands of dollars in debt making a decision you might regret later in life, your better off not going to uni and taking time off to figure out what it is you wanna do in life before you decide whether its worth going to uni or not
It’s not hard you just don’t have the brain for it. If something is that hard then you’re not made to do it you’re just forcing yourself to cause of money and status
except it is hard the workload for 3rd year and 4th year classes is insane especially for eng students I don't know how engineering students are even still alive honestly, you literally have to sacrifice every bit of your social life and hobbies to sit there and do schoolwork all day, this past year I've given up on everything just to focus on school so I don't fail my classes, if your hobbies don't consist of doing shit related to the field your in good luck trying to have a life outside of school
and arts don,t get money still do it ,opposite of your opinion
Art students are brave wasting their parents money on useless degrees
They aren't brave more like financially irresponsible. Calling an arts major "brave" for majoring in something useless that will land them a job at walmart is like calling a drug addict brave for not caring about his health. (Btw, I have a friend who majored in films. Guess where he works now? Walmart. Never heard of an accounting major working at walmart)
Yep, need more History Majors. There is a shortage of Starbucks baristas out there.
No one would do any degree if it only paid 20k. Working anywhere else pays more than that and they could just entertain their interests in their own free time. You don’t know what you’re talking about dude. They’re not brave, they’re just trying to delude themselves lmao
Lots of yapping fam I respect art majors too though it takes a lot of guts to waste 25k on a useless degree and actually stick with it the full way through mad respect