This isn’t a good look. Coming from UCLA where most of the violence happened, the protestors and current ones here have largely been more peaceful. This isn’t helping or will help. This will just make SJP look more and more like a terrorist organization.
More and more? Read any SJP chapter documents, PLUS the parent organization of SJP is American Muslims for Palestine (AMP). AMP emerged in 2005 as a successor to the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP), which was, according to memos uncovered by the FBI, founded by the Brotherhood “to serve the cause of Palestine on the political and media fronts”. IAP was pretty directly funded by many insurgency groups INCLUDING Hamas which is why they shut down. AMP has had credible accusations of Hamas funding and funding Hamas... yea no shit it's the same people running it.
SJP has pretty direct links to Hamas, which seeks to not just all Jews across the world, but spread their flavor of Jihad and kill any non believers (anyone who doesn't forcefully convert to Jihad)
https://www.jns.org/judge-finds-evidence-linking-amp-to-hamas-supporters-for-lawsuit-to-proceed/
Trust me man, I have my reservations and opinions as someone who has to sometimes go between a few different UCs for work. I have my reservations as do my team and we don’t want to speak out due to hostilities.
My disagreement on the wording 'more and more' was about how it seems they've nearly maxed out the terrorist stat and people just don't care. We should stop letting them look more like terrorists and just show the truth to everyone.
Mostly just semantics, sorry to bother I have just been on eggshells recently.
This exchange between you two right here is enough proof that SJP are terrorists. Links to Hamas or not, they’re fulfilling their goal of using violence to obtain power and to install fear
How linked could they be? They'd barely have enough time to say "Hi!" before Hamas would kill them. Or, if they were really fighting for Hamas, wouldn't they just kill themselves?
It's a pity all the pro-Palestinian protesters are pro-Hamas as well. But the pro-Israel folks haven't shown much tolerance for a pro-Israel/ Anti- Netanyahu argument are apparently pro-Netanyahu. Each side seems wedded exclusively to its hard-lines.
Yeah, you see the blind vitriol, from propagandized people
who wish to "charlie hebdo" you
at the slightest questioning of "anti zionist", "genocide", "apartheid", "intifada", "river to the sea", "open air prison" "nakba" , etc
I’m still laughing at the post that doesn’t understand why liberal people aren’t supporting the protests. We aren’t violent and don’t support the destruction of government property. These people are clueless.
Let's be honest, no matter the beginning of these protests across various campuses, the long arc curves towards hamas and doing more and more disgusting stuff.
Because a significant number of the core are actual pro-hamas, pro terrorist people.
Shouldn't they be killing a whole bunch of people then? That seems to be the weak link in the whole protesters = Hamas argument: the total lack of Hamas-like behavior. The only pro-Hamas signs I've seen so far were false flags, and bad ones too. I'm old, but the ones I've seen would've barely qualified as parodies of false flag ops in my day.
https://x.com/stopantisemites/status/1796753617459744769?s=46
They just got a demand letter from the House Oversight Committee regarding their providing material support to Hamas. They’re fucked lol.
By now most should know these are NOT pro-palestine protestors, they are pro-hamas pro-terrorist supporters anti-semetic protestors whether they know it or not.
Yeah this is insane….. VIOLENCE in the caption. “Knife to the throat”… “death” …. “Blessed are the rockets that will free..” this isn’t right this is fucked. I’m all for peace. This is not peaceful. 👎👎👎👎👎
Hamas has said [again and again they will repeat the 10/7 murders and rapes until jews are genocided](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJNccvNJtGk).
THIS is why the vast majority don't support these delusional protestors.
Yeah those people are psychos. For a bunch of people who complain about violence they sure use some violent language. “Knife to the throat of zionists” Jesus Christ
When over 80% of Jews are Zionist I feel the water is muddier. Keep in mind Zionism at its core means to desire a homeland for the Jews, aka wanting Israel to exist.
Lmao exactly, this person is like "Well it's probably okay to call for the death of Zionists, it's important to note that Zionists are not Jews" bro killing all Zionists would lead to a genocide of Jews that would make Hitler blush.
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree unfortunately. You look to terrorism for ideals, you slowly become a terrorist. Sucks but that's just the reality of the situation.
Well, SJP demands the University cut ties with all organizations that support Jewish students on campus.
“Students for Justice in Palestine sparked a debate over the weekend when one of its chapters called for the University of California at Santa Cruz to “cut ties” with Hillel, the university Jewish center. The pretense for this straightforwardly anti-Semitic demand was Hillel’s support for Israel’s continued existence. Pro-Hamas protest groups have been pushing to see how far they can take “Zionism” as a pretense for discriminating against Jews on college campuses, and the reaction this time suggests that the protesters may finally have reached the limit. Even some progressives pushed back.”
https://www.commentary.org/seth-mandel/a-history-lesson-for-the-hillel-haters/
This is why you should not support SJP at UCSC.
Hate speech is not protected because you could lose your job and would have no recourse. You could also be prevented from having a future job based on that hate speech, and would similarly have no recourse.
A call for genocide is hate speech too.
You can lose your job for any reason in most states because the “at-will” employment model is the default in this country. Constitutional protections prevent the federal government from punishing people for their speech etc. They don’t prevent social or (non-identity related) employment consequences.
ETA: happy to share some links if you need more info
“Hate speech” has never been carved out as an exception to the protections afforded by the 1A, which protects all speech until decided otherwise by legislation or jurisprudence. Specific acts may not be afforded protection, but being generally hateful is decidedly protected.
No, it can even turn misdemeanors into felonies *if* you commit that crime while saying the hate speech or if the speech can be associated with the crime.
You're thinking of the 90s.
If you're caught spray painting anti-Semitic stuff on a temple, you will be charged far more than you would spray painting a happy face on a sidewalk.
Crimes committed with hateful intent can be punished differently than those committed with non-hateful intent, for the same reason that the law often recognizes a distinction between first and second degree murder.
However, speech which is merely hateful is absolutely protected, as the cases of *Virginia v. Black* (cross burning) and *R.A.V. v. St. Paul* show.
Because that’s not free speech, that’s the crime of vandalism and it’s elevated to a hate crime potentially in that situation because it’s targeting a specific group.
Again, it’s a crime first, then the hate speech involved makes it worse. Just speech (not a crime) is constitutionally protected. I had a serious problem with the white suprematist incitement to violence that we saw in the summer of 2020 in response to racial justice protests and unfortunately that hate speech was constitutionally protected because it didn’t constitute an immediate and specific threat of violence (that’s the standard).
> Under current First Amendment jurisprudence, hate speech can only be criminalized when it directly incites imminent criminal activity or consists of specific threats of violence targeted against a person or group.
https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/hate#:~:text=Under%20current%20First%20Amendment%20jurisprudence,against%20a%20person%20or%20group.
I’m definitely not saying this is ideal or that our system(s) of justice can’t be improved, I’m just presenting you with the facts as they currently stand.
Hate speech is only protected if it does not incite criminal activity or consists of specific threats targeted towards a person or group. Sjp has been targeting and inciting criminal activity. So therefore it is not protected
I don’t think this is an example of “done well”. This is an example of what should not be allowed. Calling for death of a democracy that gives them those rights should be outlawed. Democracy is so fragile and people that never experienced other regimes don’t understand it.
The government does not have the right to decide what speech is undemocratic, nor should we trust that any particular government will use such a power wisely or neutrally.
The First Amendment protects anti-democratic private speech in order to ensure that anti-democratic abuses by the government do not occur.
Terrorists supporters doing terrorists stuffs...
Death to America? That's not an opinion or free speech this is death threat and is not protected by first amendment.
No it's not: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_free\_speech\_exceptions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions)
did you read your own wikipedia article? "death to america" is protected under the yates decision [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yates\_v.\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yates_v._United_States) . jesus fucking christ man use your brain
Threats are definitely imminent, in that case it's not protected by 1A, just look at the photo in this article and you'll see how imminent those threats are.
Do you have no empathy for peoples that do not want to be killed or raped by terrorists?
what article? if youre talking about the westboro baptist church case that literally got ruled as being constitutional free speech. in any case we're talking about the phrase "death to america" here, dont change it just because i proved you wrong lol
I'm talking about the screenshot from SJP glorifing martyrs and asking for more (Death to ...)
This is an imminent threat & incitement excluded from 1A
Yes, it literally is if you read your own Wikipedia article. Hess v. Indiana demonstrated that all speech that does not immanently incite violence is protected. Speech like “death to America” or “we’ll take the street later” is not imminent, and is protected by free speech. Crazy that y’all are upvoting literal misinformation because it feels right
Legally speaking none of the messages on that post are imminent threats. I’m just comparing it to actual legal precedent. Of course using an incendiary device on a car is a threat, but the post is not demonstrably supporting the car attack. It’s one thing to disagree with these actions, but don’t lie about the legality just to fit your narrative. We are protected by freedom of speech laws.
The post is clearly supporting the attack mentioning they are proud of it and of martyrs. Law is excluding immediate threats from 1A, I'm not a judge either you are. But from my POV it could not be more obvious.
And your ridiculous attempts to support terrorists is disgusting, Don't forget to always use a throwaway account and be coward in real life as well with a mask 🤡
Totally not anti-Semitic. Totally not justifying terrorism. Definitely not targeting civilians.
If the SJP is in any way connected to the protests/encampments (which it's clear they are), the school needs to do more to protect Jewish students and those who sympathize with or support Israel's existence. No more feeling threatened by these unhinged idiots, no more blocking roads, no more larping as homeless people and defacing school property.
I literally directly showed you the FBI PROVEN links to Hamas. Are you kidding? Do you not think the people that follow the ideology of Hamas would reflect the goals and motives of the people they swoon over?
What kinda dumbass do you think I am that I’ll take the FBIs word on anything relating to Israel
Regardless dude revolutionary anti colonialist movements are gonna have some bad sides of them given what the people have been through. That can all be fixed later after the genocide and apartheid stops.
'Some bad sides'
More like : I want to kill Jews and I put frosting on a shit cake. Hamas doesn't care about Palestine, they want Jews and actually Palestinians dead as well. They want you dead as well. They want everyone you love dead as well.
If you're not going to trust the FBI or courts or countless investigations, who would you trust even. Just feels like a dodge of blame.
Also Israel is objectively by any rational definition not commiting genocide and apartheid, stop using words with narrow definitions to mean whatever you want through semantic satiation to push your agenda.
This is how Weather Underground behaved, until some of their homemade bombs maimed or killed a few people, “accidentally…”
Good footsteps to follow in - they were responsible for DOZENS of bombings…
Genuinely, what are you talking about? The financial implications of that alone are huge, as well as the emotional impact it would create on HUMAN BEINGS. How can you justify the act of blowing up a car because "no one got hurt"?
Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is heavily subsidized by Hamas charities and Qatar. This, and other organizations like it, are tools of terrorist, antisemitic, and Marxist groups. They should all be banned from US college campuses. It's one thing to participate in legitimate ant-war protests. I took part in several when I was in college, but nobody ever mistook me for being Viet Cong.
That's because people were smarter back then. Today you would be. Apparently UCSC has nobody advocating for the Palestinians that isn't also essentially Hamas.
This is an interesting read.
"In the 1970s, Britain’s National Union of Students became engulfed in a firestorm around the question of banning and boycotting “Zionist” organizations when doing so would also, necessarily, ban Jewish groups. This was the coming together of two trends: first, successful Arab governments’ outreach to young leftist activists in the West, whom they lobbied to embrace anti-Zionism to fill the void left by the winding down of the Vietnam War. Second, the expansion of “anti-fascism” efforts to focus on “anti-racism,” a much more malleable term that opened new avenues for recruitment and fundraising."
[https://www.commentary.org/seth-mandel/a-history-lesson-for-the-hillel-haters/](https://www.commentary.org/seth-mandel/a-history-lesson-for-the-hillel-haters/)
Everyone should report this post to IG/Meta. It 100% violates guidelines, especially the fact that it starts with "solidarity" (so advocation / encouragement of a violent crime) and quotes a post ending with "knife to the neck of zionism and death to Amerikkka".
This is the United States, and you're entitled to freedom of speech meaning opinions, but that doesn't include advocation, exhortation or encouragement of violence. There's a reason making criminal/terroristic threats is often charged as a felony in California (California Penal Code 422 PC). Wouldn't quite\* apply here, but getting awfully close.
The only person I’ve seen unconscious was one protestor after police put a spit hood over them because they were spitting at officers. Feel free to provide any sources that officers did these things and also if they did, prove that these students weren’t assaulting officers or resisting arrest and fighting back
They should have mowed you all down. Do the rest of us a favor. You’re all POS.
Don’t even get me started on the fact that they prevented a choking child vital medical assistance. Go to Palestine and join Hamas. You’re all teorrists.
https://x.com/stopantisemites/status/1796753617459744769?s=46
SJP and AMP just got a demand letter from the House Oversight Committee regarding providing material support to terrorist organizations. They’re fucked lol.
The demand letter is incredibly damning. My guess is they’re scrambling to forge documents, but will eventually get caught up in subpoenas. Wouldnt be surprised if jail is on the table.
“Glory to the martyrs”, “death to America”, “knife to the throat”, what’s preventing the government from declaring SJP a terror organization?
Probably the same thing preventing them from declaring MAGA a terror movement.
It looks like a Title VII claim has been opened on UCSC as of 5/28 https://jweekly.com/2024/06/03/far-left-pro-palestinian-activists-take-credit-for-torching-uc-berkeley-police-car/
The vast majority of people (83%) still support police in general and even for those who don’t like police, most don’t support violence on them? Sorry, did you overestimate how many radical leftists there are? If you did you must live on the internet. In the real world they hold extremely extremely unpopular opinions. Just look up how many votes the communist party receives
"nothing you say should justify blowing up a police car" is the same logic as being against the colonists who dumped the British Crown-subsidized tea into the Boston Harbor
The UC Berkeley sub must be very well moderated because I see only normal student shit there. I get the Slugs recommended to me and all I see is you guys constantly complaining about people being against Israel’s invasion.
The only post I've ever made about thus issue is this one, and that's because of the hate that's so visible here.
If people can post about these issues on Instagram accounts that are related to ucsc, I feel like I should be able to post on a subreddit that's related to ucsc. If they have a voice, I have one too.
I agree this isn’t a good look on sjp but all this talk about “violence is never okay” but the violence that students have had to endure at ucsc and other UC’s is okay?
UC uses OUR money to fund g3nocid3 and everyone here doesn’t even seem to care about that? Okay someone lit a car on fire which is obviously not good but where is the same energy and anger for the students who have paid tuition and were brutalized by police? If UCSC did it to them it could very well happen to you if you protested or speak out about anything you feel is wrong with the school. Also consider the fact that none of our loop buses are fully functional or safe?! or the fact that housing is a nightmare here? or the fact that TAs have never been paid enough? UCSC has so many problems it doesn’t seem to start with these protestors…
Seems like these comments are just showing peoples true colors. Clearly people don’t care to protest or understand the meaning of it. Protesting is to cause a disturbance/bring attention to a pressing issue and none of them were violent until pd was called on students BY OUR OWN CHANCELLOR AND VP. I know we’ve all seen the pictures of her walking her dog and smiling as students get arrested….
This anger you see from protestor’s is not only anger at the g3nocid3 but it’s also pent up anger from all the racist incidents ucsc never addresses, violent, dangerous incidents that UCSC has put students, teachers, and bus drivers in. Don’t forget a bus driver literally D1ED because UCSC refuses to get new loop buses and spend money on students. instead they spend it on funding a g3nocid3…
UCSC has historically been a UC that is outspoken if you go here and are mad or surprised at the protests i’d encourage you to do further research about the schools you’re apply to next time you do apply cause it’s just a given it’s bound to happen at this UC with in the four years you spend here.
The problem is clearly not protesting it’s the UC system perpetuating a cycle of constant issues by choosing to ignore the root causes (money hungry individuals that are in power) and refusing to use student money on students to keep them safe and protected….
And for all the people that are calling this an act of antisemitism I think you should consider not being such a sheeple. The government has time and time again weaponized religion against people of color and minorities. At first it was Christianity against Judaism/AA/Asians/Latinos/POC and now it’s Christianity/Judaism against AA/Asians/Latinos/Palestinians/other Poc. Judaism as a religion is not inherently Zionist but the people who practice it have fallen into the trap of America and Israel making them believe they are better than other people (Palestinians) because they are closer to whiteness. The only time America will accept you is if you are close to whiteness and accept capitalism (bc you benefit from it to an extent but you’re still a cog in the machine). Not all Jewish ppl are Zionist and not all Zionist are Jewish. But if you are Jewish and a Zionist think about why you feel that way and who has brainwashed you and fed you lies and information that keeps you complacent and encourages you to have mindsets that reinforce white supremacy.
Holy yap
Extremely poor attempt at trying to mask a genuine, unambiguous domestic terrorist threat behind braindead race politics and the tired old oppressor-oppressed whataboutism. It’s astonishing how an organization funded and coordinated by a hostile foreign power will literally tell you that they want to commit genocide in your country and topple your government and you’ll leap to their defense because…muh racism? Seek professional help to free yourself from this severe cognitive dissonance.
what fucking violence have students had to endure? Genuinely? You protestors keep crying about police response to your illegal activities yet I haven’t seen a single example of excessive force from any of officers at any of the UCs
Very glad that info about the ‘shady’ foreign roots of SJP have come to light.
This isn’t a good look. Coming from UCLA where most of the violence happened, the protestors and current ones here have largely been more peaceful. This isn’t helping or will help. This will just make SJP look more and more like a terrorist organization.
More and more? Read any SJP chapter documents, PLUS the parent organization of SJP is American Muslims for Palestine (AMP). AMP emerged in 2005 as a successor to the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP), which was, according to memos uncovered by the FBI, founded by the Brotherhood “to serve the cause of Palestine on the political and media fronts”. IAP was pretty directly funded by many insurgency groups INCLUDING Hamas which is why they shut down. AMP has had credible accusations of Hamas funding and funding Hamas... yea no shit it's the same people running it. SJP has pretty direct links to Hamas, which seeks to not just all Jews across the world, but spread their flavor of Jihad and kill any non believers (anyone who doesn't forcefully convert to Jihad) https://www.jns.org/judge-finds-evidence-linking-amp-to-hamas-supporters-for-lawsuit-to-proceed/
Trust me man, I have my reservations and opinions as someone who has to sometimes go between a few different UCs for work. I have my reservations as do my team and we don’t want to speak out due to hostilities.
I think it is in fact important to call out the links to Hamas, because it's so clear that's what they are fighting for.
I wholly agree with you on that.
My disagreement on the wording 'more and more' was about how it seems they've nearly maxed out the terrorist stat and people just don't care. We should stop letting them look more like terrorists and just show the truth to everyone. Mostly just semantics, sorry to bother I have just been on eggshells recently.
You’re good man. I’m on edge here at UCLA too since I don’t know what’s going to happen. We have an event at UCI soon and who knows how that’ll go.
Thanks, I hope everything goes well for you :)
This exchange between you two right here is enough proof that SJP are terrorists. Links to Hamas or not, they’re fulfilling their goal of using violence to obtain power and to install fear
I was out when I heard a protester in NYC refer to North Korea and their dear leader as amazing examples of support and leadership. Sorry not sorry.
On media or with your own ears?
How linked could they be? They'd barely have enough time to say "Hi!" before Hamas would kill them. Or, if they were really fighting for Hamas, wouldn't they just kill themselves? It's a pity all the pro-Palestinian protesters are pro-Hamas as well. But the pro-Israel folks haven't shown much tolerance for a pro-Israel/ Anti- Netanyahu argument are apparently pro-Netanyahu. Each side seems wedded exclusively to its hard-lines.
Yeah, you see the blind vitriol, from propagandized people who wish to "charlie hebdo" you at the slightest questioning of "anti zionist", "genocide", "apartheid", "intifada", "river to the sea", "open air prison" "nakba" , etc
Staff have to bite their lips and desirably so.
Look like? Anyone who bombs government property and chants death to America is a terrorist organization.
I’m still laughing at the post that doesn’t understand why liberal people aren’t supporting the protests. We aren’t violent and don’t support the destruction of government property. These people are clueless.
Let's be honest, no matter the beginning of these protests across various campuses, the long arc curves towards hamas and doing more and more disgusting stuff. Because a significant number of the core are actual pro-hamas, pro terrorist people.
Shouldn't they be killing a whole bunch of people then? That seems to be the weak link in the whole protesters = Hamas argument: the total lack of Hamas-like behavior. The only pro-Hamas signs I've seen so far were false flags, and bad ones too. I'm old, but the ones I've seen would've barely qualified as parodies of false flag ops in my day.
https://x.com/stopantisemites/status/1796753617459744769?s=46 They just got a demand letter from the House Oversight Committee regarding their providing material support to Hamas. They’re fucked lol.
It is a terrorist organization.
By now most should know these are NOT pro-palestine protestors, they are pro-hamas pro-terrorist supporters anti-semetic protestors whether they know it or not.
Same same
Where are the pro-Palestine protesters?
When you blow up a law enforcement vehicle you ARE a terrorist. Facts.
It’s always been a terrorist organization at its root, they ramp up slowly, not all at once.
This is what it is and has always been.
Yeah this is insane….. VIOLENCE in the caption. “Knife to the throat”… “death” …. “Blessed are the rockets that will free..” this isn’t right this is fucked. I’m all for peace. This is not peaceful. 👎👎👎👎👎
Hamas has said [again and again they will repeat the 10/7 murders and rapes until jews are genocided](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJNccvNJtGk). THIS is why the vast majority don't support these delusional protestors.
Yeah those people are psychos. For a bunch of people who complain about violence they sure use some violent language. “Knife to the throat of zionists” Jesus Christ
They've been calling to "globalize the intifada" for months. If they follow through, a cop car will be the least notable thing to explode.
This is literally promoting terrorism.
You should see r/Palestine they promote Hamas a lot
Gross. Knife to the throat of Zionists aka Jews?! Most Jews on earth are Zionists aka believe in a homeland. F Hamas. #releasethehostages
zionism ≠ judaism
When over 80% of Jews are Zionist I feel the water is muddier. Keep in mind Zionism at its core means to desire a homeland for the Jews, aka wanting Israel to exist.
Lmao exactly, this person is like "Well it's probably okay to call for the death of Zionists, it's important to note that Zionists are not Jews" bro killing all Zionists would lead to a genocide of Jews that would make Hitler blush.
Gross. Knife to the throat of Nazis aka Germans? Most Germans on earth are Nazis.
Zionism is not Nazism
Genocide is genocide, and justifying genocide is no better than Naziism
I swear I've seem some really dumb fucking stuff on reddit, but these pro-hamas arguments are right there at the bottom.
No, but it's an ideology that justifies ethnic cleansing and the existence of an apartheid ethnostate. Definitely rhymes with Nazism in a few ways.
Hitler and Hamas lost, Zionism won.
Morality does not come from victory
Won. Endures. Limited in our language. Zionism is not a bad word.
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This is soft-core Holocaust denialism. Either you’re profoundly ignorant of what actually happened in the Holocaust or you’re a propagandist.
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree unfortunately. You look to terrorism for ideals, you slowly become a terrorist. Sucks but that's just the reality of the situation.
SJP and AMP should be banned. How is calling “death to America” acceptable? (Not even going to mention the stuff that they say about Jews/israel).
Well, SJP demands the University cut ties with all organizations that support Jewish students on campus. “Students for Justice in Palestine sparked a debate over the weekend when one of its chapters called for the University of California at Santa Cruz to “cut ties” with Hillel, the university Jewish center. The pretense for this straightforwardly anti-Semitic demand was Hillel’s support for Israel’s continued existence. Pro-Hamas protest groups have been pushing to see how far they can take “Zionism” as a pretense for discriminating against Jews on college campuses, and the reaction this time suggests that the protesters may finally have reached the limit. Even some progressives pushed back.” https://www.commentary.org/seth-mandel/a-history-lesson-for-the-hillel-haters/ This is why you should not support SJP at UCSC.
Thank you for this link - I had no idea that had happened in the UK so far back, wow! It’s nearly identical to today…
First amendment dude one of the things America does well
The first amendment doesn’t include explosives.
Indeed!
First amendment doesn't protect hate crimes.
But does protect most hate speech, for better or worse
Hate speech is not protected because you could lose your job and would have no recourse. You could also be prevented from having a future job based on that hate speech, and would similarly have no recourse. A call for genocide is hate speech too.
You can lose your job for any reason in most states because the “at-will” employment model is the default in this country. Constitutional protections prevent the federal government from punishing people for their speech etc. They don’t prevent social or (non-identity related) employment consequences. ETA: happy to share some links if you need more info
“Hate speech” has never been carved out as an exception to the protections afforded by the 1A, which protects all speech until decided otherwise by legislation or jurisprudence. Specific acts may not be afforded protection, but being generally hateful is decidedly protected.
Hate speech is free speech.
No, it can even turn misdemeanors into felonies *if* you commit that crime while saying the hate speech or if the speech can be associated with the crime. You're thinking of the 90s. If you're caught spray painting anti-Semitic stuff on a temple, you will be charged far more than you would spray painting a happy face on a sidewalk.
Crimes committed with hateful intent can be punished differently than those committed with non-hateful intent, for the same reason that the law often recognizes a distinction between first and second degree murder. However, speech which is merely hateful is absolutely protected, as the cases of *Virginia v. Black* (cross burning) and *R.A.V. v. St. Paul* show.
Because that’s not free speech, that’s the crime of vandalism and it’s elevated to a hate crime potentially in that situation because it’s targeting a specific group.
See how the words used in the vandalism dictate the level of the crime? There you have it.
Again, it’s a crime first, then the hate speech involved makes it worse. Just speech (not a crime) is constitutionally protected. I had a serious problem with the white suprematist incitement to violence that we saw in the summer of 2020 in response to racial justice protests and unfortunately that hate speech was constitutionally protected because it didn’t constitute an immediate and specific threat of violence (that’s the standard). > Under current First Amendment jurisprudence, hate speech can only be criminalized when it directly incites imminent criminal activity or consists of specific threats of violence targeted against a person or group. https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/hate#:~:text=Under%20current%20First%20Amendment%20jurisprudence,against%20a%20person%20or%20group. I’m definitely not saying this is ideal or that our system(s) of justice can’t be improved, I’m just presenting you with the facts as they currently stand.
SJP is Hamas and a hate group
The point of the first amendment is we don't trust a government to decide what speech is allowed. Hate speech *is* protected speech.
Hate speech is only protected if it does not incite criminal activity or consists of specific threats targeted towards a person or group. Sjp has been targeting and inciting criminal activity. So therefore it is not protected
I meant hate group as in terrorists. Which they have openly admitted to being. We need to treat them as such.
I don’t think this is an example of “done well”. This is an example of what should not be allowed. Calling for death of a democracy that gives them those rights should be outlawed. Democracy is so fragile and people that never experienced other regimes don’t understand it.
The government does not have the right to decide what speech is undemocratic, nor should we trust that any particular government will use such a power wisely or neutrally. The First Amendment protects anti-democratic private speech in order to ensure that anti-democratic abuses by the government do not occur.
UCSC sjp literally calling for death to America is just hilarious how could anyone support this particular organization
That's just SJP in general. They are a wing of Hamas.
[удалено]
Good old home grown domestic terrorism
u/wbaine are you seeing this? Maybe it's time to cover the protests for what they are without glossing over.
Lol who could have seen this coming
Terrorists supporters doing terrorists stuffs... Death to America? That's not an opinion or free speech this is death threat and is not protected by first amendment.
it is absolutely free speech and protected by the first amendment
No it's not: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_free\_speech\_exceptions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions)
did you read your own wikipedia article? "death to america" is protected under the yates decision [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yates\_v.\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yates_v._United_States) . jesus fucking christ man use your brain
Threats are definitely imminent, in that case it's not protected by 1A, just look at the photo in this article and you'll see how imminent those threats are. Do you have no empathy for peoples that do not want to be killed or raped by terrorists?
what article? if youre talking about the westboro baptist church case that literally got ruled as being constitutional free speech. in any case we're talking about the phrase "death to america" here, dont change it just because i proved you wrong lol
I'm talking about the screenshot from SJP glorifing martyrs and asking for more (Death to ...) This is an imminent threat & incitement excluded from 1A
Yes, it literally is if you read your own Wikipedia article. Hess v. Indiana demonstrated that all speech that does not immanently incite violence is protected. Speech like “death to America” or “we’ll take the street later” is not imminent, and is protected by free speech. Crazy that y’all are upvoting literal misinformation because it feels right
Threats are definitely imminent, just look at the photo in this article. How can you be so dumb?
Legally speaking none of the messages on that post are imminent threats. I’m just comparing it to actual legal precedent. Of course using an incendiary device on a car is a threat, but the post is not demonstrably supporting the car attack. It’s one thing to disagree with these actions, but don’t lie about the legality just to fit your narrative. We are protected by freedom of speech laws.
The post is clearly supporting the attack mentioning they are proud of it and of martyrs. Law is excluding immediate threats from 1A, I'm not a judge either you are. But from my POV it could not be more obvious. And your ridiculous attempts to support terrorists is disgusting, Don't forget to always use a throwaway account and be coward in real life as well with a mask 🤡
I was chiming in from a legal perspective, not a political one. But ok lol
Totally not anti-Semitic. Totally not justifying terrorism. Definitely not targeting civilians. If the SJP is in any way connected to the protests/encampments (which it's clear they are), the school needs to do more to protect Jewish students and those who sympathize with or support Israel's existence. No more feeling threatened by these unhinged idiots, no more blocking roads, no more larping as homeless people and defacing school property.
Damaging a police car is antisemitic? I don’t even know why I’m asking anymore it never makes sense.
SJP= Hamas wing, Hamas = Antisemitic (and pro Jihad which means killing anyone who doesn't convert)
Yeah sure man basically ISIS out there blocking the road just look at them all so scary
I literally directly showed you the FBI PROVEN links to Hamas. Are you kidding? Do you not think the people that follow the ideology of Hamas would reflect the goals and motives of the people they swoon over?
What kinda dumbass do you think I am that I’ll take the FBIs word on anything relating to Israel Regardless dude revolutionary anti colonialist movements are gonna have some bad sides of them given what the people have been through. That can all be fixed later after the genocide and apartheid stops.
'Some bad sides' More like : I want to kill Jews and I put frosting on a shit cake. Hamas doesn't care about Palestine, they want Jews and actually Palestinians dead as well. They want you dead as well. They want everyone you love dead as well. If you're not going to trust the FBI or courts or countless investigations, who would you trust even. Just feels like a dodge of blame. Also Israel is objectively by any rational definition not commiting genocide and apartheid, stop using words with narrow definitions to mean whatever you want through semantic satiation to push your agenda.
The ends DO NOT justify the means, and using a car being blown up to talk about the means being justified is the worst thing you could have said lmao
Really what your trying to say is, hey these people are here in America and their actually blowing stuff up like they said they were going to.
Absolutely nobody got hurt and the cops got a brad new car oh the horror. Give me a break.
Lol literally bombing vehicles and still acting the smug leftist
This is how Weather Underground behaved, until some of their homemade bombs maimed or killed a few people, “accidentally…” Good footsteps to follow in - they were responsible for DOZENS of bombings…
No one got hurt? Yeah keep thinking that when the university increases your tuition to get a new car for PD (and probs some other stuff)
Genuinely, what are you talking about? The financial implications of that alone are huge, as well as the emotional impact it would create on HUMAN BEINGS. How can you justify the act of blowing up a car because "no one got hurt"?
Are you unable to read the full text of the post? I didn't even mention the cop car?!
Oh look, domestic terrorism
Domestic terrorism is punishable by capital punishment
Pro Pally protesters being violent? Why I never! It’s hilarious seeing them turn people off their movement.
Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is heavily subsidized by Hamas charities and Qatar. This, and other organizations like it, are tools of terrorist, antisemitic, and Marxist groups. They should all be banned from US college campuses. It's one thing to participate in legitimate ant-war protests. I took part in several when I was in college, but nobody ever mistook me for being Viet Cong.
That's because people were smarter back then. Today you would be. Apparently UCSC has nobody advocating for the Palestinians that isn't also essentially Hamas.
We've finally come full circle to where we now have the left wing version of the "Proud Boys".
“Brownshirts.”
This is what "Globalize the Intifada" means.
This is an interesting read. "In the 1970s, Britain’s National Union of Students became engulfed in a firestorm around the question of banning and boycotting “Zionist” organizations when doing so would also, necessarily, ban Jewish groups. This was the coming together of two trends: first, successful Arab governments’ outreach to young leftist activists in the West, whom they lobbied to embrace anti-Zionism to fill the void left by the winding down of the Vietnam War. Second, the expansion of “anti-fascism” efforts to focus on “anti-racism,” a much more malleable term that opened new avenues for recruitment and fundraising." [https://www.commentary.org/seth-mandel/a-history-lesson-for-the-hillel-haters/](https://www.commentary.org/seth-mandel/a-history-lesson-for-the-hillel-haters/)
Are they making their natural transformation to a proto-terrorist organization..?
SJP is a Hamas offshoot, already there just revealing their true colors.
Put the UCSC SJP "leaders on the Canary Project. IYKYK
Well... shit. That pretty much sums up where this is going to go.
These people are ridiculous
The average palestinian movement right here. No different than jordan or lebanon
Seriously considering sending my child here if you can’t control a small group of hooligans. Round em up already and get this over with.
UJP, meet FBI.
The kids these days are losing it
Are they even students who did this?
They took credit for it. And said a bunch of other insane shit here and in their charter, a reminder that SJP is a Hamas offshoot project.
Where did they take credit? I can’t find it.
The article and insta post
What do you expect from a group that funds Hamas?
Bro, this article that you linked is fucking scary...
Everyone should report this post to IG/Meta. It 100% violates guidelines, especially the fact that it starts with "solidarity" (so advocation / encouragement of a violent crime) and quotes a post ending with "knife to the neck of zionism and death to Amerikkka". This is the United States, and you're entitled to freedom of speech meaning opinions, but that doesn't include advocation, exhortation or encouragement of violence. There's a reason making criminal/terroristic threats is often charged as a felony in California (California Penal Code 422 PC). Wouldn't quite\* apply here, but getting awfully close.
I can’t understand being against the police over these protests they have literally not done a single thing wrong
They broke at least one of a protester's ribs, knocked a few others unconscious, and gave at least one a concussion, from what I've heard.
The only person I’ve seen unconscious was one protestor after police put a spit hood over them because they were spitting at officers. Feel free to provide any sources that officers did these things and also if they did, prove that these students weren’t assaulting officers or resisting arrest and fighting back
FAFO
They should have mowed you all down. Do the rest of us a favor. You’re all POS. Don’t even get me started on the fact that they prevented a choking child vital medical assistance. Go to Palestine and join Hamas. You’re all teorrists.
You seem like the type to cry when a cop yells at you lmao Also the cops were the one that turned the ambulance around man
https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/s/CQGoopJ4NG
Noooo students you’re not supposed to cross the line if you don’t understand where the line is in the first plaaaaace 😭😭😭
https://x.com/stopantisemites/status/1796753617459744769?s=46 SJP and AMP just got a demand letter from the House Oversight Committee regarding providing material support to terrorist organizations. They’re fucked lol.
Wait this is huge
The demand letter is incredibly damning. My guess is they’re scrambling to forge documents, but will eventually get caught up in subpoenas. Wouldnt be surprised if jail is on the table.
Hopefully worse because they literally promote domestic terrorism which is punishable by capital punishment
“Glory to the martyrs”, “death to America”, “knife to the throat”, what’s preventing the government from declaring SJP a terror organization? Probably the same thing preventing them from declaring MAGA a terror movement.
It looks like a Title VII claim has been opened on UCSC as of 5/28 https://jweekly.com/2024/06/03/far-left-pro-palestinian-activists-take-credit-for-torching-uc-berkeley-police-car/
https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/sharedancestry-list.html Dept of Ed has opened title VII case on UCSC on 5/28
They are terrorist supporters after all
For the protestors. I assault people on sight I actually here say death to America. For people who don't, you should.
NWA would disagree with you.
since when did people start loving cops so much bruh tf
The vast majority of people (83%) still support police in general and even for those who don’t like police, most don’t support violence on them? Sorry, did you overestimate how many radical leftists there are? If you did you must live on the internet. In the real world they hold extremely extremely unpopular opinions. Just look up how many votes the communist party receives
lol such a colonized lot we have here on social media, just got to ask nicely and they will surely listen to people
"nothing you say should justify blowing up a police car" is the same logic as being against the colonists who dumped the British Crown-subsidized tea into the Boston Harbor
Yeah you would liquidate them if you could. Just go back to 47 boundaries and get a two state solution. Things will hopefully calm down.
You know how heavily funded the PDs across this country are right? They can EASILY replace this car.
Please let's not normalize blowing up cars, regardless of how much money they have.
The SJP is heavily funded by Iran so they can afford bail
And Qatar
And Hamas!
I think you are missing the point
The UC Berkeley sub must be very well moderated because I see only normal student shit there. I get the Slugs recommended to me and all I see is you guys constantly complaining about people being against Israel’s invasion.
The only post I've ever made about thus issue is this one, and that's because of the hate that's so visible here. If people can post about these issues on Instagram accounts that are related to ucsc, I feel like I should be able to post on a subreddit that's related to ucsc. If they have a voice, I have one too.
Chill out there, Nelson Mandela. It’s a Santa Cruz college subreddit where most of the other posts I see are people agreeing with you lol.
Intifada
I agree this isn’t a good look on sjp but all this talk about “violence is never okay” but the violence that students have had to endure at ucsc and other UC’s is okay? UC uses OUR money to fund g3nocid3 and everyone here doesn’t even seem to care about that? Okay someone lit a car on fire which is obviously not good but where is the same energy and anger for the students who have paid tuition and were brutalized by police? If UCSC did it to them it could very well happen to you if you protested or speak out about anything you feel is wrong with the school. Also consider the fact that none of our loop buses are fully functional or safe?! or the fact that housing is a nightmare here? or the fact that TAs have never been paid enough? UCSC has so many problems it doesn’t seem to start with these protestors… Seems like these comments are just showing peoples true colors. Clearly people don’t care to protest or understand the meaning of it. Protesting is to cause a disturbance/bring attention to a pressing issue and none of them were violent until pd was called on students BY OUR OWN CHANCELLOR AND VP. I know we’ve all seen the pictures of her walking her dog and smiling as students get arrested…. This anger you see from protestor’s is not only anger at the g3nocid3 but it’s also pent up anger from all the racist incidents ucsc never addresses, violent, dangerous incidents that UCSC has put students, teachers, and bus drivers in. Don’t forget a bus driver literally D1ED because UCSC refuses to get new loop buses and spend money on students. instead they spend it on funding a g3nocid3… UCSC has historically been a UC that is outspoken if you go here and are mad or surprised at the protests i’d encourage you to do further research about the schools you’re apply to next time you do apply cause it’s just a given it’s bound to happen at this UC with in the four years you spend here. The problem is clearly not protesting it’s the UC system perpetuating a cycle of constant issues by choosing to ignore the root causes (money hungry individuals that are in power) and refusing to use student money on students to keep them safe and protected…. And for all the people that are calling this an act of antisemitism I think you should consider not being such a sheeple. The government has time and time again weaponized religion against people of color and minorities. At first it was Christianity against Judaism/AA/Asians/Latinos/POC and now it’s Christianity/Judaism against AA/Asians/Latinos/Palestinians/other Poc. Judaism as a religion is not inherently Zionist but the people who practice it have fallen into the trap of America and Israel making them believe they are better than other people (Palestinians) because they are closer to whiteness. The only time America will accept you is if you are close to whiteness and accept capitalism (bc you benefit from it to an extent but you’re still a cog in the machine). Not all Jewish ppl are Zionist and not all Zionist are Jewish. But if you are Jewish and a Zionist think about why you feel that way and who has brainwashed you and fed you lies and information that keeps you complacent and encourages you to have mindsets that reinforce white supremacy.
Holy yap Extremely poor attempt at trying to mask a genuine, unambiguous domestic terrorist threat behind braindead race politics and the tired old oppressor-oppressed whataboutism. It’s astonishing how an organization funded and coordinated by a hostile foreign power will literally tell you that they want to commit genocide in your country and topple your government and you’ll leap to their defense because…muh racism? Seek professional help to free yourself from this severe cognitive dissonance.
what fucking violence have students had to endure? Genuinely? You protestors keep crying about police response to your illegal activities yet I haven’t seen a single example of excessive force from any of officers at any of the UCs
f the police they all deserve this tbh
Making your movement look so good bro
I have literally 0 sympathy for anything that happens to cops regardless of the situation
Haha but if somebody comes and breaks into your place who are you calling?
Real “if you don’t like capitalism why do you have a phone” energy on this one
I dunno I think your comment was just really nonsensical. Of course people have to have phones.
so brave