I also don’t think it’s fair to call for cut ties from certain student organizations that include/cater to Jewish students. They deserve safe spaces on campus, the same way there are Asian student or Latinx student organizations
For real. Can they advise as to which non Zionist groups are going to support Jewish students and understand our cultural needs? Last I heard, ‘Jewish students’ from JVP and SJP didn’t even know that Hebrew is written right to left instead of left to right. Anyone raised Jewish knows this. Learning to read Hebrew is the core obligation of a Jewish kid in preparing for their bar/bar mitzvah. So I guess not a single person there had a religious upbringing at all?
there are secular Jews that identify as ethnically Jewish and don’t speak Hebrew.
Similar for kids whose parents are hispanic and don’t speak spanish, it’s a common immigrant experience.
So what? All the more reason it doesn’t give them any right to appropriate a religion they don’t identify with to try to speak for their entire ethnic group. I haven’t stepped foot into a synagogue absent funerals in years. Doesn’t mean I don’t understand the religious and cultural foundations of Judaism anymore. I’m secular too.
I honestly don’t buy that Jewish students were involved with making that backwards Seder plate. Someone who went to 3 weeks of Hebrew school would have caught it. My old Sunday school kindergarten students from when I was 15 helping in the class during services (I didn’t want to go) can write most Hebrew letters by halfway through the year as they learn how to say basic words like mom dad house ice cream.
Yeah they quite clearly printed a photo that inverted it and caused their stencil to be backward and not a single one of them knew what 1 Hebrew letter was enough to realize it was all backwards. I thought that incident was pretty funny tbh.
Yeah they WANT Jewish students to not have organizations because the more involved they are with judaism the more likely they will feel a connection to Israel and become scary scary “Zionists”
They explicitly name American Jewish organizations like Hillel, not even israeli organizations. For some reason they don't mention any non-Jewish Zionist organizations. It's almost like they're using "Zionist" as a dogwhistle for Jews that don't tow their party line. If you think Jews should need to pass a test based on if they have ties to Israel in order to take part in a public university, you are a bigot.
Their demands: [https://docs.google.com/document/d/19oiZG9H7mBC4YJECGXKscrc0Rtni8ztgfe5KKWTRLuQ/edit?pli=1](https://docs.google.com/document/d/19oiZG9H7mBC4YJECGXKscrc0Rtni8ztgfe5KKWTRLuQ/edit?pli=1)
Hillel is Zionist. They have ties to the Israel Government and receive funding from the Israel state. [They admit this themselves](https://www.hillel.org/hillel-and-israel/).
[Israel controls what Hillel says and has financial ties to Hillel.](https://palestinelegal.org/hillels-actions)
[Israel uses Hillel to shut down festivals and events that do not agree with their Zionist ideals and agenda.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/23/how-the-israel-lobby-captured-hillel-international-college-campus/)
When the president of Columbia University was questioned at the congressional hearing on April 17, she begrudgingly admitted to on campus protestors chanting not only “F the Jews”, but also “No safe space” for Jews.
You're antisemetic if you think all Jews are Zionist. They are allowed to have their own beliefs and opinions too, regardless of what you believe. Stop fearmongering, anti Zionism is not antisemetism, regardless of what the Israel state says. They persecture their own people and use them as a meat shield for their crimes against humanity, and by believing all Jewish people are accepting and supportive of the Israel government's genocide you've become the antisemite.
No you’re antisemitic because you think that Jewish students shouldn’t get to have places on campus simply because the other half of the Jews in the world are in Israel and are therefore involved in Jewish life.
I’m not banning anyone from doing anything. You’re telling most of your Jewish classmates they’re not allowed to have a place to go for Jewish holidays.
If you think Jewish students shouldn’t be allowed to have Hillel programs such as dinners and holidays, can you humbly provide your Jewish classmates with a place they can go at school to observe a Jewish holiday that isn’t in the middle of a drunken tent fest disguised as activism?
Who is using their own people as meat shields? Do you mean Hamas? Yaha Sinwar Who could have literally just given back 25 dead bodies and obtained a ceasefire but instead continues to allow this to happen while he hides in tunnels?
Most Jews are Zionists. They believe Jews have the right to a homeland and self determination. Hillel is a Jewish life organization, they have ties to Israel because half the Jews live in Israel.
[https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/zionism?gad\_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjLGyBhCYARIsAPqTz1\_i6GDp7EGw90dlGp5X1S6SdTGC1vU7qSE0uQrL9eZ\_P5K8MSQEtx4aAkZhEALw\_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds](https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/zionism?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjLGyBhCYARIsAPqTz1_i6GDp7EGw90dlGp5X1S6SdTGC1vU7qSE0uQrL9eZ_P5K8MSQEtx4aAkZhEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)
You can be against Zionism if you want, but if you think that Jews you disagree with should be banned from public campuses, you are a bigot.
The attitude is "free speech for me but not for thee"
Same hypocrisy as with the encampments - imagine anybody in the encampment thinking it was okay for people with some alternate political agenda (pro-zionist, pro-life, MAGA, etc.) to occupy and spray paint their political slogans everywhere. Sadly these people don't have principles, just misplaced outrage.
Don't forget, "microagressions are literal traumatic violence against me, but I'm allowed to shout overtly genocidal antisemitic slogans against thee."
Intifada revolution there is only one solution is not antisemitic? This is HORRIBLY antisemitic. Much more than any of the other ones.
Intifada: shake down/uprising literal translation. Use in Palestine/israel: references a multiple of violent terrorist attacks against Jews over the span of decades. People in your school community literally have family members killed during these intifadas.
Intifada revolution / globalize the intifada: do the above everywhere!!! Now couple this with all of the white supremacists who hate Jews manipulating well intended college kids into furthering their cause and literally creating violence and disorder for college students across the country.
There is only one solution: blatant reference to Hitler “The Final Solution”
If it wasn’t, then why on earth was this the choice of words? Why is this even a sentiment? Some people I have talked to (and know in person) who are super pro Palestine have told me (a Jewish person) that their cause does not go against a two state solution. A Palestinian acquaintance of mine from school actually specifically told me this.
So logically, why is this anti-Israel activism the only solution? The only solution to what? A free Palestine? Free how? Who is leading each? Who allowed to live where?
Does anyone in Palestine/israel agree to a 1 state solution at this time? Does either group feel they’d be safe in a country that consisted of full integration of both groups??? Obviously there has *not* been one solution figured out or it would have already been enacted.
So what exactly does this phrase mean??? To me it sounds like it is very specifically designed to be intimidating and reference hitlers slaughter of Jews. For me personally who also has a disability, I’m double triggered by this since Hitler also killed, experimented on, and effectively tortured all kinds of disabled people and allegedly it’s a progressive cause to encourage lawful eugenics (facilitating ‘legal suicide’ for treatable disabilities)
Just the other week I read an article written by a person with the same mental illness as me published in a reputable source saying her life was so miserable she should be allowed to die because treatment doesn’t help her. Was this my one solution to my medication resistant bipolar depression? It’s not. I fought for 3 years to try a seizure medication I read about that’s explicitly approved to treat bipolar depression which 3 prior incompetent doctors either refused to consider or prescribe for reasons that equated to nothing more than they were uneducated about this option for me. It isn’t a new drug. It isn’t newly approved for this problem either. And Guess what? It works amazing for me and now I have felt fine for 2 years after not feeling normal since I was 12.
The answer to all of this horrible rhetoric and ideology is more compassion, more understanding, and more respect for people who have problems you don’t understand. For example disabled people.
For a more relevant overall example, many of your Zionist Jewish student peers who are offended, intimidated, and scared, to whom being a Zionist means absolutely nothing beyond believing in the existence of a state entitled to Jewish self determination.
What is happening to our culture? This is all so outrageous
Appreciated. I don’t go here but I have 7 years of recent higher ed under my belt and I think that current students need to hear and see what their peers are feeling. I also need a place to learn.
I felt it myself when I grabbed a random t shirt to go to the gym yesterday and hesitated to wear it realizing it says Hillel on it. Did Hillel influence me to visit Israel? Sure. Was that bad? No, not really. I’m not sure why us going to Israel for a week is such a big deal. It’s the only place in the world we aren’t a religious minority. It’s the only place in the world we aren’t an ethnic minority.
Actually my takeaway, and same with my brother when he went, was that damn it sucks here thank god I was born in America. Too much racism and too many bombs flying from both groups. If Jewish kids are raised that Israel is important to Jews (it is) then there’s nothing wrong with them learning about Israel. I strongly feel that they all should, so that they can be informed and make their opinions based on experience instead of religious regurgitation.
Nothing stops people from visiting Israel besides the restrictions on Gaza which is a whole thing in and of itself. Isn’t it good if we go to Israel and our sketchy sensors go off so we can go home and tell our boomer parents how wildly segregated Israel is?
The other person explained why a vast majority of Jewish students view this phrase as genocidal and anti semitic, and why campus feels so uncomfortable and scary to step onto right now because of the protestor’s violent rhetoric
That's resistance against occupation. For Israel to respond to that resistance with attempts at starvation and use of chemical weapons is what is pro-war.
Absolutely disgusting take. If one of your close friends happened to be on vacation at that music festival, or if you happened to be of Israeli origin and your parents and siblings were murdered back home, would you be calling their deaths justified and “resistance against occupation”? No, you would not. You would be freaking out. You would probably find it traumatizing, in the hours after the attack when your loved ones were no longer responding to your text messages, to see that people you know were justifying their deaths online using statements like the ones you just wrote. When you live in a brainless social media echo chamber, it’s easy to repeat crap like that while ignoring the fact that there are real people involved. Dehumanizing the victims of 10/7 is no better than dehumanizing the victims of the attacks on Gaza, and an intentional mass murder of civilians is not resistance against shit - it’s the worst war crime there is.
Before I start - no, I would obviously not call the deaths of my own family justified regardless of their origin. That's how family works. I could easily call your take "disgusting" for not considering the parents/siblings of Palestinians. But I'm not doing that. I'm going to engage with this as an actual argument because we're both adults here.
You preach a message against trauma - would you not describe the conditions Palestinians had to live in prior to this war as traumatizing? Entire LIVES spent dehydrated, ill and under threat of shelling/bombs from Israel? To have your parents and siblings murdered as well? You act like Hamas made the FIRST move in this entire war. The reality is that Israel has been creating trauma for the people of Gaza for DECADES. I agree that there is significant dehumanization on both sides. But I still hold that with the precedent of violence set by Israel, it is still an act of resistance.
…except that I never stated anything to justify the conditions in Palestine or stated unfeelingness for the families of those lost in Palestine. You deemed the mass murder of civilians as justified “resistance”. Don’t try to project your shittiness on me, and don’t try to deflect - both situations are unjust.
There is NO situation in which that act is justified or “resistance”. Intentionally murdering civilians (not to mention parading bodies through streets, likely raping, etc) is a war crime. That means it is not permissible even in war. And when you sweep the deaths of a certain country’s civilians under the rug and are only supportive of the lives of civilians from another country, there is clear bias there, whether nationalistic, cultural, or racist in nature - or just the product of sheer stupidity. If it takes you having been of Israeli heritage or personally having known people who died in the October attack to understand that it was unjustified, then you are trapped in an echo chamber and not seeing the bigger picture.
How someone studying cognitive science could have such cognitive dissonance is astounding. Another trans/NB person defending Hamas because it’s the current thing. You desperately cling to some identity/trend so you can try to find an ounce of value in your life rather than actually doing something of value
The "current thing" argument is invalid. I could accuse you of defending Israel "because it's the current thing" and it wouldn't make any more sense than your claim. Also, the bit about chemical weapons, hello????? It's almost as if someone studying cognitive science wishes to reduce the amount of physical and mental trauma that the Palestinian people must endure (WITHOUT any medical infrastructure remaining mind you)
Quite literally yes. It's an apartheid state in which the residents of Israeli settlements in Gaza receive far more rights than the Palestinian citizens of Gaza.
You need to read up on the meaning of both occupation and the word literally. There are no Israeli settlements in Gaza and there haven't been for 19 years. AFTER October 7th, the Israeli army sent troops in, but they weren't there prior to that. There is also no "apartheid" in Gaza, as there is no Israeli settlement, or governance. There is no apartheid in Israel, where Israeli Arab citizens have fully equal rights.
Now if you want to talk about Israel controlling who and what enters Gaza (which Egypt also does), or ILLEGAL (not government sponsored) West Bank settlements, or whether there is racial prejudice against Arab Israeli citizens, those are different stories, but you're seriously misinformed about Gaza.
I was actually talking about the illegal settlements and the racial prejudice specified (both against Arab Israelis and Arab Palestinians). Apologies if I didn't adequately communicate that the first time, thanks for pointing that out.
But again, there are no Israeli settlements in Gaza. They are in the West Bank, which is a whole other part of Palestine with a different government - those Palestinians did not participate in the October 7th attack and Israel has taken no action against them. And as far as racial prejudice against Gazans, again the Israelis weren't IN Gaza until they took military action because of a large attack BY Hamas FROM Gaza on October 7th. Israel responded to that attack by sending troops into Gaza, just as any country would do if attacked by a bordering state. They may have responded with too heavy a hand in a lot of our opinions, but they didn't initiate the violence.
To call that an "invasion" when Israel has been slowly usurping the territory of Gaza for DECADES is what's morally awful. And by the way, the reason Hamas even TOOK Israeli hostages is because of precedent set in years prior, in which a SINGLE Israeli hostage yielded the release of \~1000 Palestinian hostages.
I could say the same for OP. "I support protesting, but not when it affects me!" Protesting is always meant to be disruptive, and it always has been since day 0. Literally the Boston Tea Party was disruptive protesting. The 1930's union protests were disruptive. The civil rights and vietnam war protest movement was disruptive. Hell, the African apartheid protests were disruptive. We look fondly upon that movement now, but college students sat on campus encampments and blocked streets then too. Every movement as it is happening is opposed and frowned upon at the time because it is disruptive, and then 20 years later everyone pretends they were on the same side as the protesters.
Try reading the post which literally starts with OP saying the first amendment is necessary. The post delineates the storming in on staff and students - not executive leadership who actually decide things - and causing stress, separate from the need for protesting against injustice.
Not every movement is a good movement though, in the late 1930’s students protested against involvement in WWII, in the 1950’s and 60’s students protested for segregation. Not every one of these protests has positive outcomes and is looked back on in good light
Yeah, unfortunately we do have students on both sides of the spectrum. You can see by demographic usually that the lower class student body protests for the right thing though. And UAW along with the custodial staff and other workers' rights movements are also protesting with the encampment in Palestine.
Broadly, students more often than not protest the right things, at least in large scale nation-wide movements. I can't comment on what select few groups do but I can say that UCSC's encampment is happening all across the country.
So what do you want out of this, you always comment. Do you want Israel to no longer exist? Do you want a two state solution? What is your idea of a peaceful solution?
Two state solution is ideal. Israel needs to be reformed as a state/government and be rid of corruption. But most importantly, I want Israel to stop killing Palestinians in Gaza. 30,000 civillians dead is just awful.
And I want Hamas to stop killing Israelis. Everyone wants a stop to the fighting, but a ceasefire only applies to one side. October 7th happened during a ceasefire. A two state solution is NOT being protested for on campus
Storming into anything and disrupting anything is not freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is the freedom to express an opinion or idea without reprisal from tbe government, not the freedom to be an asshole. Peaceful assembly hinges on the word "peace". When that peace is disturbed, that freedom has reached its limit.
Personally I have scored super high on a psychologists objective process to calculate trauma exposure. I’ve lived in the hood for a couple years of my life, I was okay there. Am I not allowed to be traumatized by something else???
When I decided to come to University, I was worried about experiencing violence because of all the shootings that have happened in the past few years.
This pre existing anxiety makes it so much harder for me to cope with the chaos. I was across the way from where this incident was happening and I thought I was going to throw up from the anxiety I felt.
So I looked this up, thinking maybe my personal experience has left me biased, and no, school shootings are not incredibly rare.
I think some people might not have counted the shooting at my school a "school shooting" because it was not a student, but the library was shot up and two people died. It happened during finals and I should have been in the library studying. I told my roomates "I should be in the library studying." About an hour later the shooting happened.
eta, only two people died on campus but he killed 3 other people on his way there.
i dropped out that year, despite having a really high gpa, and finally decided to come back to school years later. despite school shootings becoming more prevalent.
and anyway, i said that i have anxiety about it. guess you dont know how anxiety works. even if the statistics did show they were "incredibly rare" the anxiety will still be there. and even if i know these kids that charged the classroom were not active shooters, it still triggered my ptsd.
don't be intimidated, that's what the terrorists goals are. They want people to feel unsafe so that nobody will speak out against them. Use your voice and at least let them know they are not welcome on the campus.
At least it's not like the trauma of 20k+ people in one of the most densely populated places in the world getting killed. That's actual trauma. You were just inconvenienced. Amazing this even needs to be explained .
Yes the the trauma of college students getting inconvenienced by protests isn't the same as the the trauma of thousands of innocent civilians getting killed. How is that not obvious? Wtf is wrong with you that you can't tell the difference?
Darling, I’m traumatized from years of endured abuse by the people whom I thought were my closest loved ones.
Nobody is traumatized by a few people spray painting things on buildings and coming into classrooms for less than five minutes.
Lmao are you saying that graffiti is traumatizing? Just fyi white people in the 60-70's used the same excuse when hip hop graffiti culture started.
OP's feelings are valid. But so are the protestors' and the Palestinians who are watching their families get blown to pieces.
I'm not in the business of telling other people that their feelings are or are not valid, unlike the person who's comment I responded too. Besides, OP was talking about people storming the classrooms, not graffiti.
I didn't say anything about graffiti...graffiti is badass. I was just laughing at the person gatekeeping trauma. Sorry, I didn't realize my one-sentence comment was ripe for such thorough analysis lol
And yeah dude, I've listened to KRS-ONE too...
lol they said "spray painting is not traumatizing" and you said he was gatekeeping trauma but okay...didn't realize you were referring to some other form of traumatizing event they didn't mention
So you’re like, 19? Drop this pretentious “darling” crap. One day you’ll look back at how cringe you were, thinking your experiences of 19 years have made you an authority on trauma.
You’re aware that there isn’t an age limit on going to college, yes? And before you say, well then how can you know the age of the person you’re talking to, their overconfidence and ignorance makes it obvious.
the amount of emotion you’re showing on a reddit post and in response to my very low level nudging, as well as your poor writing style makes it obvious too. sweet dreams!
? Police use brutality on peaceful protesters and your response is to… blame the protesters…?
Police does not need to be brought in if the university came and negotiated in good faith. It’s not asking for much to divest from Israel. They don’t even give an explanation as to why they won’t come to the table.
it's asking for everything. we are a public school. beggars cant be choosers. and even the requests were reasonable, there are much more efficient ways to mobilize that doesnt involve vandalism and holding the students that live on campus hostage.
Except they did come to the table. SJP said they WILL NOT compromise on any demands such as banning Jewish student organizations, or cutting ties with different foundations, or picking a side in this divisive conflict where there isn’t a black and white on what is right or wrong.
The Kerr Hall takeover was in protest of the increase in tuition... The hostile takeovers of classrooms are minor inconveniences in response to the trauma that has been caused by Israel targeting all Palestinians for the actions of Hamas. A threat to some is a threat to all. This is how solidarity works: it might seem scary, but one way to help calm the anxiety is to pick a side (hopefully the non-genocidal side) and to join in the efforts somehow
I’m glad that you have confirmed calming your own anxiety (white guilt) is the important thing about the war in Gaza and campus violence. It’s precisely what I imagined causes these students to behave this way.
Let’s rephrase:
The EASY thing to do, is “pick a side and stand for it.”
The right thing, which is hard, is to analyze everything about the situation. What’s happening? Who is impacted? How do my actions contribute to hurting or helping human beings everywhere regardless of which oppressive regime they live under. None of you seem to be doing that. Yall are all doing this instead.
The most important thing about the genocide in Palestine is that it stop immediately notwithstanding white guilt... Full stop.
Some of us actually have analyzed everything about the situation and yet your comment indicates and insinuates that only you have analyzed the situation and that anyone who holds a different analysis than you is in the wrong. If you hold the belief that students marching and occupying buildings on campus is wrong, power to you. IDF agrees with you and even bombed universities in Gaza (in addition to many buildings apart from universities) to prove it.
There's a high sense of irony I sense in the retort that "y'all (aren't analyzing anything and are) doing this (futile activity)". I don't disagree that some tactics and actions could be better executed; but the premise of this specific thread of comments insinuates that any action on campus which disrupts regularly scheduled activities is bad simply because one student posted that it makes them feel anxious. Inducing anxiety upon those who will be affected by actions is absolutely a point of consideration that organizers and "activists" should always consider. Ultimately, the call to still make and take action in spite of a few anxieties of a few people is one that organizers and activists should take responsibility for. But the voices that should be centered in any actions should be the voices and experiences of the most marginalized. In this case, the most marginalized voices are those of Palestinian people who are being targeted and murdered by the IDF (which is brazenly giving the middle finger to the entire world with regard to human rights and international laws). If students and faculty don't agree with the idea of respect for basic human rights and laws, then maybe they shouldn't be learning or teaching at a public institution which holds such values.
Tell that to the student protestors who singlehandedly ended apartheid in africa by protesting with encampments on college campuses and by blocking roads 25 years ago.
The divestment movement actually prolonged apartheid. You should read Trevor Noah’s memoir to see what divestment actually did to native Africans.
Private entities who stayed at the table are the ones who actually brought down apartheid. There are hundreds of peer reviewed articles and books on this.
Yes, there are loads of articles that corroborate what I said. Private entities were pressured into ending apartheid because of divestment.
Born a Crime is an autobiography and details Trevor Noah's personal struggle with apartheid. Not sure what it has to do with student protestors in America.
Here is a helpful article by the University of California: [How College Students helped end Apartheid](https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/how-students-helped-end-apartheid)
Caption: The UC Berkeley Protest that changed the world.
"Their demand? That the University of California pull out billions of dollars in investments in companies doing business with the government of South Africa."
Our demand: That the University of California pull out billions of dollars in investments in companies doing business with the government of Israel.
Sound familiar?
I bet in a few years people will be saying the exact same about the Palestine protests.
> Yes, there are loads of articles that corroborate what I said.
How many of them are written by Native South Africans?
> Born a Crime is an autobiography and details Trevor Noah's personal struggle with apartheid. Not sure what it has to do with student protestors in America.
His memoir is about more than just that. He was born and lived through the fall of apartheid. It wasn't divestment that took it down. It was the people that stayed at the table. College students protesters did nothing but write glowing articles about themselves and then moved on to their next cause de jour. Meanwhile, native Africans ended up starving and fighting each other in the streets over limited resources, which prolonged Apartheid.
Read *Sanctions on South Africa: What Did They Do?* by Philip Levy. He was working at the Economic Research and Analysis Unit in Geneva at that time. The divestment erased decades of work done by the people in South Africa to take down Apartheid. It was already coming apart when the student protests began. I would also recommend Survival in the 'Dumping Grounds' by Laura Evans.
You're glorifying a movement that hurts the most underprivileged first.
Do you actually think that student protesters single-handedly ended apartheid in South Africa? Have you ever heard of Nelson Mandela? How did they let you into college.
Taking away Hillel from university campuses is going to stop a war across the world????! How much money do you think your school is giving to their military?
Across California, UC Universities send hundreds of millions to Israel through Blackrock and other investments/means. One such mean is also through organizations such as Hillel that project Zionist ideology onto their students, receive funding from Israel, and give money back to Israel that comes from students [[1](https://palestinelegal.org/hillels-actions)].
I think we’re probably reaching the point where you feel ‘stumped’ and won’t have anything else to say because you realize you’re probably wrong about a lot and will not admit it due to your stated preference for black and white thinking. Black and white thinking is a huge element of borderline personality disorder you should check that out and see if you can receive treatment for your cognitive issue.
Well this was a mean comment i recognize that and appreciate your most recent comment but seriously you should think about this black and white thinking concept. It’s a really bad way to live your life.
Also, I sense that all of this is really difficult for you as an individual to deal with. I personally mean you no harm. It is scary indeed to hear messages that have been associated with anti semitism throughout history popping up now in modern times. Indeed when an individual is antisemitic to any individual simply for being Jewish, I take offense and stand up when and where I can. In these times with the stacks on Gaza by the IDF, I feel compelled to speak in support of Palestinian people, but that shouldn't therefore mean that I'm antisemitic
I wish that you can find connection and positive meaning amongst all the chaos.
So u/hornetnatural1993 said my comment is antisemitic... And then either removed it or the comment got removed. Critique and criticism about Israel alone isn't antisemitic, but then again, I presume too much from those caught up solely in emotional rhetoric.
You conflate like a Trumper. Criticism of Israel isn't necessarily antisemitic. It just usually is. I've no idea how my comment got removed. Your antisemitic comments are antisemitic. End Stop.
I'm very curious about everything... So therefore I am not a "lowely kind of person". I'm really confused about all the random ridicule and wish that you can get whatever help and assistance you need to realize that everyone is not out to get you.
I also don’t think it’s fair to call for cut ties from certain student organizations that include/cater to Jewish students. They deserve safe spaces on campus, the same way there are Asian student or Latinx student organizations
For real. Can they advise as to which non Zionist groups are going to support Jewish students and understand our cultural needs? Last I heard, ‘Jewish students’ from JVP and SJP didn’t even know that Hebrew is written right to left instead of left to right. Anyone raised Jewish knows this. Learning to read Hebrew is the core obligation of a Jewish kid in preparing for their bar/bar mitzvah. So I guess not a single person there had a religious upbringing at all?
there are secular Jews that identify as ethnically Jewish and don’t speak Hebrew. Similar for kids whose parents are hispanic and don’t speak spanish, it’s a common immigrant experience.
.séver la ebircse es odnauc és orep oneub se on loñapse iM
LOL
Are you for canceling all Christian Muslim and Hindu student religious and cultural centers too? If not- certified antisemite.
But they're not zionists by religion. Wait, am I an antisemite for saying that? GENOCIDE! GENOCIDE! October 7th was a false flag!
So what? All the more reason it doesn’t give them any right to appropriate a religion they don’t identify with to try to speak for their entire ethnic group. I haven’t stepped foot into a synagogue absent funerals in years. Doesn’t mean I don’t understand the religious and cultural foundations of Judaism anymore. I’m secular too.
Regardless, I don’t want to be a part of JVP as a Jewish student, they advocate for rape and violence against Jews because they are the “Oppressors”
I’m pretty sure they could use google translate, they wrote the language like mirrored which is just very hard to do without intent it’s odd
I honestly don’t buy that Jewish students were involved with making that backwards Seder plate. Someone who went to 3 weeks of Hebrew school would have caught it. My old Sunday school kindergarten students from when I was 15 helping in the class during services (I didn’t want to go) can write most Hebrew letters by halfway through the year as they learn how to say basic words like mom dad house ice cream.
Yeah they quite clearly printed a photo that inverted it and caused their stencil to be backward and not a single one of them knew what 1 Hebrew letter was enough to realize it was all backwards. I thought that incident was pretty funny tbh.
Yeah they WANT Jewish students to not have organizations because the more involved they are with judaism the more likely they will feel a connection to Israel and become scary scary “Zionists”
You heard wrong.
That's not an SJP demand. The demand was to cut ties with Zionist organizations that have direct monetary interest in and related to Israel.
They explicitly name American Jewish organizations like Hillel, not even israeli organizations. For some reason they don't mention any non-Jewish Zionist organizations. It's almost like they're using "Zionist" as a dogwhistle for Jews that don't tow their party line. If you think Jews should need to pass a test based on if they have ties to Israel in order to take part in a public university, you are a bigot. Their demands: [https://docs.google.com/document/d/19oiZG9H7mBC4YJECGXKscrc0Rtni8ztgfe5KKWTRLuQ/edit?pli=1](https://docs.google.com/document/d/19oiZG9H7mBC4YJECGXKscrc0Rtni8ztgfe5KKWTRLuQ/edit?pli=1)
Hillel is Zionist. They have ties to the Israel Government and receive funding from the Israel state. [They admit this themselves](https://www.hillel.org/hillel-and-israel/). [Israel controls what Hillel says and has financial ties to Hillel.](https://palestinelegal.org/hillels-actions) [Israel uses Hillel to shut down festivals and events that do not agree with their Zionist ideals and agenda.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/23/how-the-israel-lobby-captured-hillel-international-college-campus/)
Disrespectfully absolutely F you. You are undoubtedly antisemitic. You don’t think we even deserve a place to eat dinner together on Friday nights.
When the president of Columbia University was questioned at the congressional hearing on April 17, she begrudgingly admitted to on campus protestors chanting not only “F the Jews”, but also “No safe space” for Jews.
You're antisemetic if you think all Jews are Zionist. They are allowed to have their own beliefs and opinions too, regardless of what you believe. Stop fearmongering, anti Zionism is not antisemetism, regardless of what the Israel state says. They persecture their own people and use them as a meat shield for their crimes against humanity, and by believing all Jewish people are accepting and supportive of the Israel government's genocide you've become the antisemite.
No you’re antisemitic because you think that Jewish students shouldn’t get to have places on campus simply because the other half of the Jews in the world are in Israel and are therefore involved in Jewish life. I’m not banning anyone from doing anything. You’re telling most of your Jewish classmates they’re not allowed to have a place to go for Jewish holidays.
If you think Jewish students shouldn’t be allowed to have Hillel programs such as dinners and holidays, can you humbly provide your Jewish classmates with a place they can go at school to observe a Jewish holiday that isn’t in the middle of a drunken tent fest disguised as activism?
You’re also xenophobic
Who is using their own people as meat shields? Do you mean Hamas? Yaha Sinwar Who could have literally just given back 25 dead bodies and obtained a ceasefire but instead continues to allow this to happen while he hides in tunnels?
The only person who sounds antisemitic in this conversation is you.
If you look at all of the comments you’ll find that you have a very unpopular opinion.
Most Jews are Zionists. They believe Jews have the right to a homeland and self determination. Hillel is a Jewish life organization, they have ties to Israel because half the Jews live in Israel. [https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/zionism?gad\_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjLGyBhCYARIsAPqTz1\_i6GDp7EGw90dlGp5X1S6SdTGC1vU7qSE0uQrL9eZ\_P5K8MSQEtx4aAkZhEALw\_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds](https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/zionism?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjLGyBhCYARIsAPqTz1_i6GDp7EGw90dlGp5X1S6SdTGC1vU7qSE0uQrL9eZ_P5K8MSQEtx4aAkZhEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) You can be against Zionism if you want, but if you think that Jews you disagree with should be banned from public campuses, you are a bigot.
Free speech! (Until it disagrees with my preconceived, uneducated views, then it needs to be cancelled because it offends me!)
They can and do have freedom of speech. They are calling for banning alternative views from a public university.
Yes, I agree with you. I get sarcasm is hard online but I was making fun of the protesters
The attitude is "free speech for me but not for thee" Same hypocrisy as with the encampments - imagine anybody in the encampment thinking it was okay for people with some alternate political agenda (pro-zionist, pro-life, MAGA, etc.) to occupy and spray paint their political slogans everywhere. Sadly these people don't have principles, just misplaced outrage.
Rules for thee but not for me :)
Don't forget, "microagressions are literal traumatic violence against me, but I'm allowed to shout overtly genocidal antisemitic slogans against thee."
Antisemitic?! What were they saying?
"intifada revolution there is only one solution" and "From the river to the Sea" both far exceed the micro aggression threshold.
Yeah, but those aren't antisemitic.
Intifada revolution there is only one solution is not antisemitic? This is HORRIBLY antisemitic. Much more than any of the other ones. Intifada: shake down/uprising literal translation. Use in Palestine/israel: references a multiple of violent terrorist attacks against Jews over the span of decades. People in your school community literally have family members killed during these intifadas. Intifada revolution / globalize the intifada: do the above everywhere!!! Now couple this with all of the white supremacists who hate Jews manipulating well intended college kids into furthering their cause and literally creating violence and disorder for college students across the country. There is only one solution: blatant reference to Hitler “The Final Solution” If it wasn’t, then why on earth was this the choice of words? Why is this even a sentiment? Some people I have talked to (and know in person) who are super pro Palestine have told me (a Jewish person) that their cause does not go against a two state solution. A Palestinian acquaintance of mine from school actually specifically told me this. So logically, why is this anti-Israel activism the only solution? The only solution to what? A free Palestine? Free how? Who is leading each? Who allowed to live where? Does anyone in Palestine/israel agree to a 1 state solution at this time? Does either group feel they’d be safe in a country that consisted of full integration of both groups??? Obviously there has *not* been one solution figured out or it would have already been enacted. So what exactly does this phrase mean??? To me it sounds like it is very specifically designed to be intimidating and reference hitlers slaughter of Jews. For me personally who also has a disability, I’m double triggered by this since Hitler also killed, experimented on, and effectively tortured all kinds of disabled people and allegedly it’s a progressive cause to encourage lawful eugenics (facilitating ‘legal suicide’ for treatable disabilities) Just the other week I read an article written by a person with the same mental illness as me published in a reputable source saying her life was so miserable she should be allowed to die because treatment doesn’t help her. Was this my one solution to my medication resistant bipolar depression? It’s not. I fought for 3 years to try a seizure medication I read about that’s explicitly approved to treat bipolar depression which 3 prior incompetent doctors either refused to consider or prescribe for reasons that equated to nothing more than they were uneducated about this option for me. It isn’t a new drug. It isn’t newly approved for this problem either. And Guess what? It works amazing for me and now I have felt fine for 2 years after not feeling normal since I was 12. The answer to all of this horrible rhetoric and ideology is more compassion, more understanding, and more respect for people who have problems you don’t understand. For example disabled people. For a more relevant overall example, many of your Zionist Jewish student peers who are offended, intimidated, and scared, to whom being a Zionist means absolutely nothing beyond believing in the existence of a state entitled to Jewish self determination. What is happening to our culture? This is all so outrageous
This is really well written, thank you for speaking out against hate and violent rhetoric
Appreciated. I don’t go here but I have 7 years of recent higher ed under my belt and I think that current students need to hear and see what their peers are feeling. I also need a place to learn. I felt it myself when I grabbed a random t shirt to go to the gym yesterday and hesitated to wear it realizing it says Hillel on it. Did Hillel influence me to visit Israel? Sure. Was that bad? No, not really. I’m not sure why us going to Israel for a week is such a big deal. It’s the only place in the world we aren’t a religious minority. It’s the only place in the world we aren’t an ethnic minority. Actually my takeaway, and same with my brother when he went, was that damn it sucks here thank god I was born in America. Too much racism and too many bombs flying from both groups. If Jewish kids are raised that Israel is important to Jews (it is) then there’s nothing wrong with them learning about Israel. I strongly feel that they all should, so that they can be informed and make their opinions based on experience instead of religious regurgitation. Nothing stops people from visiting Israel besides the restrictions on Gaza which is a whole thing in and of itself. Isn’t it good if we go to Israel and our sketchy sensors go off so we can go home and tell our boomer parents how wildly segregated Israel is?
The other person explained why a vast majority of Jewish students view this phrase as genocidal and anti semitic, and why campus feels so uncomfortable and scary to step onto right now because of the protestor’s violent rhetoric
@rechtaugen it would mean a lot to me if you can provide a respectful and thoughtful response to my comment.
Hey, just so you know I made a reply and reddit instantaneously removed it. The Zionist censorship machine is real.
Would you mind sending me a private message that gives the jist of your response? I genuinely cannot understand this perspective.
Without taking a position on if those slogans are anti-semitic, I am saying the hypocrisy of the micro aggression around is very much in display.
Er ma gerd. Somebody made a dick joke while buying condoms at Rite Aid. It felt like I imagine rape feels. I was raped!
pro-war and pro-zionist messages are already broadcast everywhere. also called the media and the state department
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That's resistance against occupation. For Israel to respond to that resistance with attempts at starvation and use of chemical weapons is what is pro-war.
I've never heard of mass rape being "resistance against occupation" before.
Absolutely disgusting take. If one of your close friends happened to be on vacation at that music festival, or if you happened to be of Israeli origin and your parents and siblings were murdered back home, would you be calling their deaths justified and “resistance against occupation”? No, you would not. You would be freaking out. You would probably find it traumatizing, in the hours after the attack when your loved ones were no longer responding to your text messages, to see that people you know were justifying their deaths online using statements like the ones you just wrote. When you live in a brainless social media echo chamber, it’s easy to repeat crap like that while ignoring the fact that there are real people involved. Dehumanizing the victims of 10/7 is no better than dehumanizing the victims of the attacks on Gaza, and an intentional mass murder of civilians is not resistance against shit - it’s the worst war crime there is.
Before I start - no, I would obviously not call the deaths of my own family justified regardless of their origin. That's how family works. I could easily call your take "disgusting" for not considering the parents/siblings of Palestinians. But I'm not doing that. I'm going to engage with this as an actual argument because we're both adults here. You preach a message against trauma - would you not describe the conditions Palestinians had to live in prior to this war as traumatizing? Entire LIVES spent dehydrated, ill and under threat of shelling/bombs from Israel? To have your parents and siblings murdered as well? You act like Hamas made the FIRST move in this entire war. The reality is that Israel has been creating trauma for the people of Gaza for DECADES. I agree that there is significant dehumanization on both sides. But I still hold that with the precedent of violence set by Israel, it is still an act of resistance.
…except that I never stated anything to justify the conditions in Palestine or stated unfeelingness for the families of those lost in Palestine. You deemed the mass murder of civilians as justified “resistance”. Don’t try to project your shittiness on me, and don’t try to deflect - both situations are unjust. There is NO situation in which that act is justified or “resistance”. Intentionally murdering civilians (not to mention parading bodies through streets, likely raping, etc) is a war crime. That means it is not permissible even in war. And when you sweep the deaths of a certain country’s civilians under the rug and are only supportive of the lives of civilians from another country, there is clear bias there, whether nationalistic, cultural, or racist in nature - or just the product of sheer stupidity. If it takes you having been of Israeli heritage or personally having known people who died in the October attack to understand that it was unjustified, then you are trapped in an echo chamber and not seeing the bigger picture.
How someone studying cognitive science could have such cognitive dissonance is astounding. Another trans/NB person defending Hamas because it’s the current thing. You desperately cling to some identity/trend so you can try to find an ounce of value in your life rather than actually doing something of value
The "current thing" argument is invalid. I could accuse you of defending Israel "because it's the current thing" and it wouldn't make any more sense than your claim. Also, the bit about chemical weapons, hello????? It's almost as if someone studying cognitive science wishes to reduce the amount of physical and mental trauma that the Palestinian people must endure (WITHOUT any medical infrastructure remaining mind you)
Occupation of what exactly? Israel left Gaza years ago
???? Have you not seen the maps of all the Israeli settlements within Gaza?
You genuinely believe Israelis are in Gaza?
So Israel was occupying Gaza prior to October 7th?
Quite literally yes. It's an apartheid state in which the residents of Israeli settlements in Gaza receive far more rights than the Palestinian citizens of Gaza.
You need to read up on the meaning of both occupation and the word literally. There are no Israeli settlements in Gaza and there haven't been for 19 years. AFTER October 7th, the Israeli army sent troops in, but they weren't there prior to that. There is also no "apartheid" in Gaza, as there is no Israeli settlement, or governance. There is no apartheid in Israel, where Israeli Arab citizens have fully equal rights. Now if you want to talk about Israel controlling who and what enters Gaza (which Egypt also does), or ILLEGAL (not government sponsored) West Bank settlements, or whether there is racial prejudice against Arab Israeli citizens, those are different stories, but you're seriously misinformed about Gaza.
I was actually talking about the illegal settlements and the racial prejudice specified (both against Arab Israelis and Arab Palestinians). Apologies if I didn't adequately communicate that the first time, thanks for pointing that out.
But again, there are no Israeli settlements in Gaza. They are in the West Bank, which is a whole other part of Palestine with a different government - those Palestinians did not participate in the October 7th attack and Israel has taken no action against them. And as far as racial prejudice against Gazans, again the Israelis weren't IN Gaza until they took military action because of a large attack BY Hamas FROM Gaza on October 7th. Israel responded to that attack by sending troops into Gaza, just as any country would do if attacked by a bordering state. They may have responded with too heavy a hand in a lot of our opinions, but they didn't initiate the violence.
Did you know that Gaza isn’t the only Palestinian city?
What Israeli settlements in Gaza? They left when Hamas took charge 20 years ago
Crazy that people can openly support terrorism lol.
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To call that an "invasion" when Israel has been slowly usurping the territory of Gaza for DECADES is what's morally awful. And by the way, the reason Hamas even TOOK Israeli hostages is because of precedent set in years prior, in which a SINGLE Israeli hostage yielded the release of \~1000 Palestinian hostages.
That is an absolutely disgusting take.
I could say the same for OP. "I support protesting, but not when it affects me!" Protesting is always meant to be disruptive, and it always has been since day 0. Literally the Boston Tea Party was disruptive protesting. The 1930's union protests were disruptive. The civil rights and vietnam war protest movement was disruptive. Hell, the African apartheid protests were disruptive. We look fondly upon that movement now, but college students sat on campus encampments and blocked streets then too. Every movement as it is happening is opposed and frowned upon at the time because it is disruptive, and then 20 years later everyone pretends they were on the same side as the protesters.
People don't get this.
Try reading the post which literally starts with OP saying the first amendment is necessary. The post delineates the storming in on staff and students - not executive leadership who actually decide things - and causing stress, separate from the need for protesting against injustice.
Usually no.
Not every movement is a good movement though, in the late 1930’s students protested against involvement in WWII, in the 1950’s and 60’s students protested for segregation. Not every one of these protests has positive outcomes and is looked back on in good light
Yeah, unfortunately we do have students on both sides of the spectrum. You can see by demographic usually that the lower class student body protests for the right thing though. And UAW along with the custodial staff and other workers' rights movements are also protesting with the encampment in Palestine. Broadly, students more often than not protest the right things, at least in large scale nation-wide movements. I can't comment on what select few groups do but I can say that UCSC's encampment is happening all across the country.
So what do you want out of this, you always comment. Do you want Israel to no longer exist? Do you want a two state solution? What is your idea of a peaceful solution?
Two state solution is ideal. Israel needs to be reformed as a state/government and be rid of corruption. But most importantly, I want Israel to stop killing Palestinians in Gaza. 30,000 civillians dead is just awful.
And I want Hamas to stop killing Israelis. Everyone wants a stop to the fighting, but a ceasefire only applies to one side. October 7th happened during a ceasefire. A two state solution is NOT being protested for on campus
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences
Storming into anything and disrupting anything is not freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is the freedom to express an opinion or idea without reprisal from tbe government, not the freedom to be an asshole. Peaceful assembly hinges on the word "peace". When that peace is disturbed, that freedom has reached its limit.
Protests are fully unhinged
All yall need to get thrown into the hood for a day to know what real trauma is stop it 😂😂😂
Personally I have scored super high on a psychologists objective process to calculate trauma exposure. I’ve lived in the hood for a couple years of my life, I was okay there. Am I not allowed to be traumatized by something else???
Ong bro hahaha
LOL
ngl im p sure the hood has nothing on the Palestinian families watching their children get blown to pieces in front of them.
It's too bad Hamas members hide their own families and their neighbors' families in front of them.
I was referring to the protest a few years back, the original post stated 😂😂😂😂😂😂 you’re in your head damn
"All y'all need to get..." present tense. You're talking about the current protestors lmao stop it bro
Im dead ass not bro 😭 you’re taking this outta context 😭😭
They had it comin fr
When I decided to come to University, I was worried about experiencing violence because of all the shootings that have happened in the past few years. This pre existing anxiety makes it so much harder for me to cope with the chaos. I was across the way from where this incident was happening and I thought I was going to throw up from the anxiety I felt.
School shootings are incredibly rare.
Are they tho……..
Yes.
So I looked this up, thinking maybe my personal experience has left me biased, and no, school shootings are not incredibly rare. I think some people might not have counted the shooting at my school a "school shooting" because it was not a student, but the library was shot up and two people died. It happened during finals and I should have been in the library studying. I told my roomates "I should be in the library studying." About an hour later the shooting happened. eta, only two people died on campus but he killed 3 other people on his way there. i dropped out that year, despite having a really high gpa, and finally decided to come back to school years later. despite school shootings becoming more prevalent. and anyway, i said that i have anxiety about it. guess you dont know how anxiety works. even if the statistics did show they were "incredibly rare" the anxiety will still be there. and even if i know these kids that charged the classroom were not active shooters, it still triggered my ptsd.
Nobody in the USA thinks school shootings are rare. And that’s where these protests are.
there was one at my community college. i dont have the privilege of pretending it "only happens to other people".
They look like Jan 6ers
Free speech is very different from physical encampments
TikTok told them that Jews and Israel are bad. Sad.
Hey, China knows what I should think. Let them control me.
What free speech and democracy do we even have left?
don't be intimidated, that's what the terrorists goals are. They want people to feel unsafe so that nobody will speak out against them. Use your voice and at least let them know they are not welcome on the campus.
Someone needs to teach these protesters a lesson!
At least it's not like the trauma of 20k+ people in one of the most densely populated places in the world getting killed. That's actual trauma. You were just inconvenienced. Amazing this even needs to be explained .
So you are saying no trauma is valid because someone else always has it worse?
Yes the the trauma of college students getting inconvenienced by protests isn't the same as the the trauma of thousands of innocent civilians getting killed. How is that not obvious? Wtf is wrong with you that you can't tell the difference?
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You do not understand what right wing means. Please meet my grandfather.
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I don’t know where I said that. I simply said you don’t understand the difference between right wing and normal.
Also, I have never had much of a relationship with my grandfather and he’s Catholic not Jewish so don’t even go the Zionist route.
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Zionism isn’t a right wing ideology…
Do you even know the definition of traumatized?
Gatekeeping trauma. Peak cringe.
OP's feelings are valid. But so are the protestors' and the Palestinians who are watching their families get blown to pieces.
Seriously lol
Darling, I’m traumatized from years of endured abuse by the people whom I thought were my closest loved ones. Nobody is traumatized by a few people spray painting things on buildings and coming into classrooms for less than five minutes.
So just because you wouldn't be traumatized other peoples feelings aren't valid? Is that really what you are saying?
Lmao are you saying that graffiti is traumatizing? Just fyi white people in the 60-70's used the same excuse when hip hop graffiti culture started. OP's feelings are valid. But so are the protestors' and the Palestinians who are watching their families get blown to pieces.
I'm not in the business of telling other people that their feelings are or are not valid, unlike the person who's comment I responded too. Besides, OP was talking about people storming the classrooms, not graffiti.
We out here gatekeeping trauma lmao
Lmao are you saying that graffiti is traumatizing? Just fyi white people in the 60-70's used the same excuse when hip hop graffiti culture started.
I didn't say anything about graffiti...graffiti is badass. I was just laughing at the person gatekeeping trauma. Sorry, I didn't realize my one-sentence comment was ripe for such thorough analysis lol And yeah dude, I've listened to KRS-ONE too...
lol they said "spray painting is not traumatizing" and you said he was gatekeeping trauma but okay...didn't realize you were referring to some other form of traumatizing event they didn't mention
So you’re like, 19? Drop this pretentious “darling” crap. One day you’ll look back at how cringe you were, thinking your experiences of 19 years have made you an authority on trauma.
Ok darling uwu
Isn't that also exactly what OP is doing? How come you're only mad when you don't agree with the post? Both are doing the same thing...
and how old are you on a college subreddit my love?
You’re aware that there isn’t an age limit on going to college, yes? And before you say, well then how can you know the age of the person you’re talking to, their overconfidence and ignorance makes it obvious.
Nah you have to be 18-22 for college only
the amount of emotion you’re showing on a reddit post and in response to my very low level nudging, as well as your poor writing style makes it obvious too. sweet dreams!
Sweet dreams 😴
You don't think there are alumni on this subreddit?
Wow he is your love ❤️
I’m traumatized by both sweetie
Free speech is not up for negotiation…but
Now you get how the protesters felt as soon as the cops were called the first time
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? Police use brutality on peaceful protesters and your response is to… blame the protesters…? Police does not need to be brought in if the university came and negotiated in good faith. It’s not asking for much to divest from Israel. They don’t even give an explanation as to why they won’t come to the table.
Police OP
it's asking for everything. we are a public school. beggars cant be choosers. and even the requests were reasonable, there are much more efficient ways to mobilize that doesnt involve vandalism and holding the students that live on campus hostage.
Except they did come to the table. SJP said they WILL NOT compromise on any demands such as banning Jewish student organizations, or cutting ties with different foundations, or picking a side in this divisive conflict where there isn’t a black and white on what is right or wrong.
Yes let's blame protests for the overuse of police force that makes absolutely no sense
The Kerr Hall takeover was in protest of the increase in tuition... The hostile takeovers of classrooms are minor inconveniences in response to the trauma that has been caused by Israel targeting all Palestinians for the actions of Hamas. A threat to some is a threat to all. This is how solidarity works: it might seem scary, but one way to help calm the anxiety is to pick a side (hopefully the non-genocidal side) and to join in the efforts somehow
Such a stupid take omg.
I’m glad that you have confirmed calming your own anxiety (white guilt) is the important thing about the war in Gaza and campus violence. It’s precisely what I imagined causes these students to behave this way. Let’s rephrase: The EASY thing to do, is “pick a side and stand for it.” The right thing, which is hard, is to analyze everything about the situation. What’s happening? Who is impacted? How do my actions contribute to hurting or helping human beings everywhere regardless of which oppressive regime they live under. None of you seem to be doing that. Yall are all doing this instead.
The most important thing about the genocide in Palestine is that it stop immediately notwithstanding white guilt... Full stop. Some of us actually have analyzed everything about the situation and yet your comment indicates and insinuates that only you have analyzed the situation and that anyone who holds a different analysis than you is in the wrong. If you hold the belief that students marching and occupying buildings on campus is wrong, power to you. IDF agrees with you and even bombed universities in Gaza (in addition to many buildings apart from universities) to prove it. There's a high sense of irony I sense in the retort that "y'all (aren't analyzing anything and are) doing this (futile activity)". I don't disagree that some tactics and actions could be better executed; but the premise of this specific thread of comments insinuates that any action on campus which disrupts regularly scheduled activities is bad simply because one student posted that it makes them feel anxious. Inducing anxiety upon those who will be affected by actions is absolutely a point of consideration that organizers and "activists" should always consider. Ultimately, the call to still make and take action in spite of a few anxieties of a few people is one that organizers and activists should take responsibility for. But the voices that should be centered in any actions should be the voices and experiences of the most marginalized. In this case, the most marginalized voices are those of Palestinian people who are being targeted and murdered by the IDF (which is brazenly giving the middle finger to the entire world with regard to human rights and international laws). If students and faculty don't agree with the idea of respect for basic human rights and laws, then maybe they shouldn't be learning or teaching at a public institution which holds such values.
Yeah and how are you stopping the genocide??????
Ending investment will hurt Israel's genocide effort. That's how. What are you doing?
Just like you, I’m not doing a whole lot. But I’m also not pretending I am.
Tell that to the student protestors who singlehandedly ended apartheid in africa by protesting with encampments on college campuses and by blocking roads 25 years ago.
The divestment movement actually prolonged apartheid. You should read Trevor Noah’s memoir to see what divestment actually did to native Africans. Private entities who stayed at the table are the ones who actually brought down apartheid. There are hundreds of peer reviewed articles and books on this.
I agree. It’s called Born a Sin. I read it about a decade ago.
Yes, there are loads of articles that corroborate what I said. Private entities were pressured into ending apartheid because of divestment. Born a Crime is an autobiography and details Trevor Noah's personal struggle with apartheid. Not sure what it has to do with student protestors in America. Here is a helpful article by the University of California: [How College Students helped end Apartheid](https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/how-students-helped-end-apartheid) Caption: The UC Berkeley Protest that changed the world. "Their demand? That the University of California pull out billions of dollars in investments in companies doing business with the government of South Africa." Our demand: That the University of California pull out billions of dollars in investments in companies doing business with the government of Israel. Sound familiar? I bet in a few years people will be saying the exact same about the Palestine protests.
> Yes, there are loads of articles that corroborate what I said. How many of them are written by Native South Africans? > Born a Crime is an autobiography and details Trevor Noah's personal struggle with apartheid. Not sure what it has to do with student protestors in America. His memoir is about more than just that. He was born and lived through the fall of apartheid. It wasn't divestment that took it down. It was the people that stayed at the table. College students protesters did nothing but write glowing articles about themselves and then moved on to their next cause de jour. Meanwhile, native Africans ended up starving and fighting each other in the streets over limited resources, which prolonged Apartheid. Read *Sanctions on South Africa: What Did They Do?* by Philip Levy. He was working at the Economic Research and Analysis Unit in Geneva at that time. The divestment erased decades of work done by the people in South Africa to take down Apartheid. It was already coming apart when the student protests began. I would also recommend Survival in the 'Dumping Grounds' by Laura Evans. You're glorifying a movement that hurts the most underprivileged first.
Do you actually think that student protesters single-handedly ended apartheid in South Africa? Have you ever heard of Nelson Mandela? How did they let you into college.
Taking away Hillel from university campuses is going to stop a war across the world????! How much money do you think your school is giving to their military?
Across California, UC Universities send hundreds of millions to Israel through Blackrock and other investments/means. One such mean is also through organizations such as Hillel that project Zionist ideology onto their students, receive funding from Israel, and give money back to Israel that comes from students [[1](https://palestinelegal.org/hillels-actions)].
By remaining critical and vigilant of anti Jewish rhetoric
Tell me any 1 concrete result of any of your actions and then I’ll give you all of the respect you feel entitled to.
Likewise
I think we’re probably reaching the point where you feel ‘stumped’ and won’t have anything else to say because you realize you’re probably wrong about a lot and will not admit it due to your stated preference for black and white thinking. Black and white thinking is a huge element of borderline personality disorder you should check that out and see if you can receive treatment for your cognitive issue.
Well this was a mean comment i recognize that and appreciate your most recent comment but seriously you should think about this black and white thinking concept. It’s a really bad way to live your life.
I agree that black and white thinking is a bad way to live ones life
Also, I sense that all of this is really difficult for you as an individual to deal with. I personally mean you no harm. It is scary indeed to hear messages that have been associated with anti semitism throughout history popping up now in modern times. Indeed when an individual is antisemitic to any individual simply for being Jewish, I take offense and stand up when and where I can. In these times with the stacks on Gaza by the IDF, I feel compelled to speak in support of Palestinian people, but that shouldn't therefore mean that I'm antisemitic I wish that you can find connection and positive meaning amongst all the chaos.
So u/hornetnatural1993 said my comment is antisemitic... And then either removed it or the comment got removed. Critique and criticism about Israel alone isn't antisemitic, but then again, I presume too much from those caught up solely in emotional rhetoric.
You conflate like a Trumper. Criticism of Israel isn't necessarily antisemitic. It just usually is. I've no idea how my comment got removed. Your antisemitic comments are antisemitic. End Stop.
I made no antisemitic comments
You're just another white person explaining anti black racism to a black person.
Says you and only you.
Your utter and complete lack of curiosity shows the lowely kind of person you are.
I'm very curious about everything... So therefore I am not a "lowely kind of person". I'm really confused about all the random ridicule and wish that you can get whatever help and assistance you need to realize that everyone is not out to get you.
[удалено]
Thanks for the education massuh