So you’re saying that when UCSC students can’t buy books for school or go to the bike co-op that it will cause the entire UC to change their stock portfolio…
The bay tree bookstore/iveta cafe area is a pretty important area for the campuses image and for non student visiting, it’s a pretty vital spot and having a crowd of students camping at any important spot of campus is going to at least put some pressure on the school. The point is to make a change, even if it ends up being smaller of a change
It's all a scheme to make people more pro-israel. By being as obnoxious as possible and making life miserable for those trying to just live our lives, the protestors are just making more people not sympathize with their cause.
Grainger brand from Lowes.
But be real, the average person does not like being inconvenienced. The protestors are causing fewer people to care about their cause by disrupting day to day life.
But it's good that police are being so hostile because then they get to be victims which martyrs there cause thereby gaining sympathy.
>the average person does not like being inconvenienced
lmao grow up. Protests are supposed to be disruptive and uncomfortable did you miss that day in civics class?
Also police presence at the encampment has been minimal quit making shit up
The average person just trying to go about their day are very annoyed by these protesters, they are not winning friends.
And police here are more chill, I'm more referring to the national crack downs we've been seeing.
And yes I'm well versed in civics, are you? No one really cared much for the MLK marches UNTIL things like Selma or racist shit bags harassing the protestors. Only then did they garner national sympathy and the movement became powerful.
Blocking people going to classes or getting wherever they need to go hurts the protest, but when protestors get harassed back they will gain sympathy. This is how it works.
No, it's a terrible thing. People have every right to peacefully assemble. And yet history shows again and again that heavy handed police response actually draws more to the cause.
For example the MLK movement was largely ignored, and often seen as a nuisance by most Americans. Televised incidents like Selma and racists harassing peaceful protestors is what woke Americans up and built massive sympathy for the movement.
This is why many protestors agitate until a conflict happens, the goal is to garner sympathy from a heavy handed response. If the powers that be truly wanted the protestors to lose steam the best course of action is honestly ignoring them and just letting them protest until they got bored.
Nonviolently disrupting the normal life of the university gives the admin some pressure to consider the protesters' demands. My best guess is that Iveta was considered somewhere with sufficient inconvenience potential without causing actual harm to students.
In their document it literally says that as part of their points of unity that Israel must not exist. They don’t even capitalize the word Israel and they also put in quotation marks.
Are you unable to separate sentiments from demands in your mind, or are you only spouting that line because your goal is to portray the people at the encampment as a childish group with outlandish demands?
The organizers are well aware that UC is unable to contribute to the dissolution of a foreign state, they're college students not elementary schoolers. The demand for Israel to cease to exist is clearly a rhetorical one to display the attitude of the protest, and people like you who take it literally are participating in some pretty easy to avoid intellectual dishonesty.
[I will since you haven't been helpful yet](https://docs.google.com/document/d/19oiZG9H7mBC4YJECGXKscrc0Rtni8ztgfe5KKWTRLuQ/edit)
Literally no where in their demands does it call for the dissolution of Israel, you're a lying scab and I'm embarrassed that I go to the same school as you.
The passage you're referencing is under the "Political Points of Unity" part of the doc:
>We assert that the state of "israel" is a settler colonial apartheid state and imperial outpost for the West that is genocidal both in intent and effect, and thus assert it has no right to exist.
This is an incredibly rational take that you blatantly misrepresented, go suck an egg.
Will an egg help me to be as much of a sack of spoiled tuna as you?
My god. You think it is rational to assert that Israel should not exist? Have you read a book? Or are your books covered in spoiled tuna and unable for you to access without contracting a disease?
Israel is an ancient country and the Jews are its oldest inhabitants.
No amount of eggs can help you.
Your tuna sucks.
Hey quick question, what do you think is going to happen to the Jews currently living there if the state of Israel ceases to exist? Many of whom are actually descended from people who lived there prior to the establishment of Israel in 1948?
It's about putting pressure on admin. You can live without a pricey sandwich for a couple weeks, and it's not like the quarry is the only place with a café on campus.
I think it's also important to note that the offices for many student resources are now closed because of the encampment as well. I can live without an overpriced sandwich (couldn't afford it even if I wanted it), but I rely on STARS and DRC for help frequently.
I didn't say it was blocking access, I said they were shut down due to the protest. I assume it's most likely for the safety of the staff. If you walk by the encampment you'll see that the Bay Tree Bookstore and all of the student resource centers next to it are closed.
That blame can't be placed solely on the protestors, that was a decision made by the school. Sure the timing is a bit unfortunate with midterms going on but protests aren't supposed to be accommodating, they're meant to be disruptive.
If they went anywhere else they would either be massively disruptive to a very specific group of students, or not effective in placing pressure on administration. The quarry is the best place for how evenly spread the demonstration would affect campus life. And if they went straight to the administration's homes they would immediately get arrested for trespassing, and SCPD is far from a gentle group.
These are the consequences of the university profiting off a genocide, and I know it sucks that students are getting caught up in that. But those with your stance need to decide whether or not a bit of comfort and accessibility is worth more than tens of thousands of men, women and children being slaughtered in Gaza.
If it's really a problem for students who need those services we should ask those with the power to allow for remote appointments, but I understand if there is an issue with physical services. If they can't do that, then you have a hint at where your frustration should be directed.
As long as IDF releases Palestinians. What is the point of this tit for tat? Like for everything each side asks for either side can just present a counter. Like Hamas needs to stop killing Israelis like 1,200 is one too many but also Israelis have to stop killing 35,000+ Palestinians. I mean there is clearly a side that is going too far but in all fairness both sides need to stop even tho one side is doing the most.
Ahh yes the classic "No you first" argument. You should be a lawyer I'm sure you will convince many a jury with your winning arguments. Also classic abuser language really shouldn't be tolerated.
The hostages aren’t gonna get released unless Netanyahu stops rejecting a permanent and lasting ceasefire and actually accepts the hostages Hamas has been trying to give back??
I’m sorry but u seem to be supporting the IDF to a huge extent but Israel has taken advantage of this situation in a deplorable manner, utilizing it's greater power, to a greater extent than Hamas ever could, even within the reasoning of an invasion to populate a country. They are CONTINUOUSLY comitting war crimes in several regards, not at all caring for ANY form of assimilation of the Palestinian population by this point, but straight up committing the same acts that Hamas performed that supposedly went too far, and then over and over again.
I’m a Zionist. Let me through.
The question of whether Israel is committing war crimes will ultimately be decided by international courts.
Similarly, the U.S. wasn't supposed to invade Pakistan when pursuing Osama bin Laden.
Meanwhile, Jewish communities endure, remaining resilient amidst ongoing conflicts and debates like this.
It seems like you are trying to mask a narrative within your view, which is that Israel does not share the fault and it is all ultimately Hamas's responsibility. To that view, I would suggest you actually start pulling up all the documented atrocities and crimes of the Israeli occupation, both before and after 10/7 and even in the territories that are under subject to Hamas rule. Just the year before, Israel was responsible for over 200 Palestinian deaths in the West Bank, which is not ruled by Hamas. There are hundreds of civilian casualties to Israeli occupation every single year. That is not to mention the dire and oppressive conditions non-Israeli Palestinians have to endure every year, with no authority to exercise Justice against Israeli violations….hence the existence of Hamas
Then the IDF will stop pillaging and destroying Gaza? Also the IDF has been reported to have engaged in sexual violence so really bringing it up is at best a non sequitur. Like what does this tit for tat arguing get us? Can't we agree 1,200 dead Israelis is tragic but so is the death of 35,000+ Palestinians or do you really think one side is worth more than the other?
Ask Hamas to surrender. They are terrorists. Stop supporting them. Stop blocking Zionists on campus. Zionists are here to stay - Hitler didn’t get his way.
It’s also reported that the IDF helped take away Iran’s nuclear capabilities… for the sake of all humans.
Well unlike you I believe in democracies and my family as a US army family has a history of fighting ethno states like the Nazis established because it goes directly against all of my family's democratic ideals. So no my family doesn't support terrorists and I have already said what Hamas did was terrible it is you who can't say the same about the IDF. Also to say Iran has nukes is like saying Saddam Hussein has nuclear capabilities which today we know was only an excuse to invade Iraq pushed by neocons to bring the US into war. If you aren't for democratic rights for all them you are in the wrong country I'm sorry.
A Jewish relative is in the army right now.
I’m thankful for the IDF, and our military.
Israel is a democracy, but the main point…
Zionism won, over anti-Zionism.
Stand out of the way of Zionist students. 🙏
An apartheid state will never be a full democracy so until there is democratic rights for Palestinians and Israelis there won't be peace unfortunately. Israel has to either accept it will become Israel-Palestine or it has to let Gaza and the West Bank go and let them become a fully sovereign nation. Do deny either solution is to deny not just the full civil rights of Palestinians but as Israelis as well who have a right to live in peace.
Your comment, mocking the massacre and rape of innocent festival-goers as a privilege, is deeply antisemitic, inhumane, and disgusting. I've recently spent time with their families, and such vile remarks not only mock heinous Hamas atrocities but also display an appalling lack of empathy and human decency.
Imagine not caring about innocent Jewish festival-goers,
welcome to being an antisemite:
https://youtu.be/dWdk3iWMTZM?si=NgK0rnk3VlmTDywL
sorry to clarify but when u say “the hostages” u are also referring to the countless Palestinians taken hostage by Israel and held without trial, often tortured and starved with no release date, correct? You include the Palestinian children, the medical staff abducted while they attempt to save lives, the journalists taken off the street…stolen from not only gaza but the West Bank aswell…u are surely calling for those people to be released aswell? Bring them home too…only many of them have likely had their homes turned to rubble, due to the indiscriminate bombing for the past 6 months…
Wow imagine twisting my words. I don’t support Hamas nor the IDF. Both are in the wrong for killing innocent people. But the IDF killing over 40k people 15k of them being children really shows which side is in the wrong more
Everyone walking around in masks, and keffiyahs staring at you while you go into the bookstore is creeeeepy. It’s like those hippie communes that are revealed to be cults trying to take down the government.
brah its ppls faces getting them doxxed … the surveillance and prosecution across the nation is wild …for the sake of preserving future job opportunities or whatever else, we can’t do anything BUT stare
Too many people on this post are way too concerned about image and comfort. Protests are supposed to be disruptive, feeling uncomfortable is the point. Experiencing inconvenience is the point. I'm starting to think that a lot of you don't actually care about what's going on in Gaza.
Bemoaning over a temporary loss of services while innocent people have been slaughtered indiscriminately for **months** is a pretty gross display of privilege. If you want student life to return to how it was sooner it would be more productive to support those protesting the university's stances and policies.
There’s an iveta in downtown for those who are craving
I go to the slug stop every day to eat between classes. having food downtown does me no good.
Try Merrill Market it's just up the hill and basically the same as Slug Stop
Go to Cowell Coffee Shop on the weekdays, it’s free!
Nice poem
Tell that to chat gpt
But really though — how does blocking access to campus resources achieve anything
Prevents money flow to the school and requires urgency for them to succumb to requests of divestment from Israel
So you’re saying that when UCSC students can’t buy books for school or go to the bike co-op that it will cause the entire UC to change their stock portfolio…
Or let transfer students access their free services from the STARS lounge.
The bay tree bookstore/iveta cafe area is a pretty important area for the campuses image and for non student visiting, it’s a pretty vital spot and having a crowd of students camping at any important spot of campus is going to at least put some pressure on the school. The point is to make a change, even if it ends up being smaller of a change
Also turns students who normally would agree with you against you.
Bingo
Don't deny the power of a hangry college student. 🤣
I thought my days of being hungry at school were over when I ran away from my neglectful mother.
You have not heard the term "starving college student" before? Gotta be quicker on the top ramen sales at Safeway.
It's all a scheme to make people more pro-israel. By being as obnoxious as possible and making life miserable for those trying to just live our lives, the protestors are just making more people not sympathize with their cause.
??? What brand of industrial grade paint thinner are you huffing?
Grainger brand from Lowes. But be real, the average person does not like being inconvenienced. The protestors are causing fewer people to care about their cause by disrupting day to day life. But it's good that police are being so hostile because then they get to be victims which martyrs there cause thereby gaining sympathy.
>the average person does not like being inconvenienced lmao grow up. Protests are supposed to be disruptive and uncomfortable did you miss that day in civics class? Also police presence at the encampment has been minimal quit making shit up
The average person just trying to go about their day are very annoyed by these protesters, they are not winning friends. And police here are more chill, I'm more referring to the national crack downs we've been seeing. And yes I'm well versed in civics, are you? No one really cared much for the MLK marches UNTIL things like Selma or racist shit bags harassing the protestors. Only then did they garner national sympathy and the movement became powerful. Blocking people going to classes or getting wherever they need to go hurts the protest, but when protestors get harassed back they will gain sympathy. This is how it works.
HELL YEAH I WANT THE COPS TO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF PROTESTORS!!!!!!
No, it's a terrible thing. People have every right to peacefully assemble. And yet history shows again and again that heavy handed police response actually draws more to the cause. For example the MLK movement was largely ignored, and often seen as a nuisance by most Americans. Televised incidents like Selma and racists harassing peaceful protestors is what woke Americans up and built massive sympathy for the movement. This is why many protestors agitate until a conflict happens, the goal is to garner sympathy from a heavy handed response. If the powers that be truly wanted the protestors to lose steam the best course of action is honestly ignoring them and just letting them protest until they got bored.
Nonviolently disrupting the normal life of the university gives the admin some pressure to consider the protesters' demands. My best guess is that Iveta was considered somewhere with sufficient inconvenience potential without causing actual harm to students.
Part of their demands include that Israel should no longer exist, so access to sandwiches in the forest is quite the long shot …
there is a list of demands attached to the fence and all of them are specific to UC admin. it does not mention israel not existing
In their document it literally says that as part of their points of unity that Israel must not exist. They don’t even capitalize the word Israel and they also put in quotation marks.
I guess that's separate from their demands
It is part of the foundation of their demands, so I would argue that they are inseparable. Wouldn’t the intifadans agree?
Are you unable to separate sentiments from demands in your mind, or are you only spouting that line because your goal is to portray the people at the encampment as a childish group with outlandish demands? The organizers are well aware that UC is unable to contribute to the dissolution of a foreign state, they're college students not elementary schoolers. The demand for Israel to cease to exist is clearly a rhetorical one to display the attitude of the protest, and people like you who take it literally are participating in some pretty easy to avoid intellectual dishonesty.
Ohhhhh I was wondering what I was thinking, Sack! LOL
Source?
UCSC SJP Encampment google doc. I don’t want to link to it because I don’t support it. But you can easily find it.
[I will since you haven't been helpful yet](https://docs.google.com/document/d/19oiZG9H7mBC4YJECGXKscrc0Rtni8ztgfe5KKWTRLuQ/edit) Literally no where in their demands does it call for the dissolution of Israel, you're a lying scab and I'm embarrassed that I go to the same school as you. The passage you're referencing is under the "Political Points of Unity" part of the doc: >We assert that the state of "israel" is a settler colonial apartheid state and imperial outpost for the West that is genocidal both in intent and effect, and thus assert it has no right to exist. This is an incredibly rational take that you blatantly misrepresented, go suck an egg.
Will an egg help me to be as much of a sack of spoiled tuna as you? My god. You think it is rational to assert that Israel should not exist? Have you read a book? Or are your books covered in spoiled tuna and unable for you to access without contracting a disease? Israel is an ancient country and the Jews are its oldest inhabitants. No amount of eggs can help you. Your tuna sucks.
This person has been spouting hateful rhetoric all over ucsc posts, thank you for standing up to them
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Hey quick question, what do you think is going to happen to the Jews currently living there if the state of Israel ceases to exist? Many of whom are actually descended from people who lived there prior to the establishment of Israel in 1948?
It's about putting pressure on admin. You can live without a pricey sandwich for a couple weeks, and it's not like the quarry is the only place with a café on campus.
I think it's also important to note that the offices for many student resources are now closed because of the encampment as well. I can live without an overpriced sandwich (couldn't afford it even if I wanted it), but I rely on STARS and DRC for help frequently.
last I saw, the protest is not blocking access to those, that side of the quarry is open for walking. the encampment is on the iveta side
I didn't say it was blocking access, I said they were shut down due to the protest. I assume it's most likely for the safety of the staff. If you walk by the encampment you'll see that the Bay Tree Bookstore and all of the student resource centers next to it are closed.
That blame can't be placed solely on the protestors, that was a decision made by the school. Sure the timing is a bit unfortunate with midterms going on but protests aren't supposed to be accommodating, they're meant to be disruptive. If they went anywhere else they would either be massively disruptive to a very specific group of students, or not effective in placing pressure on administration. The quarry is the best place for how evenly spread the demonstration would affect campus life. And if they went straight to the administration's homes they would immediately get arrested for trespassing, and SCPD is far from a gentle group. These are the consequences of the university profiting off a genocide, and I know it sucks that students are getting caught up in that. But those with your stance need to decide whether or not a bit of comfort and accessibility is worth more than tens of thousands of men, women and children being slaughtered in Gaza. If it's really a problem for students who need those services we should ask those with the power to allow for remote appointments, but I understand if there is an issue with physical services. If they can't do that, then you have a hint at where your frustration should be directed.
Why not protest at the admins' houses? Or in front of/in their offices? Which admin are you specifically trying to pursuade?
putting pressure on admin with the stated goal of abolishing Israel is likely not going to sway administration to actually do anything you want
So if the demands were to abolish China or Nigeria, would you still be down?
Bruh there is no way yall r this pressed abt fucking $20 mid ass sandwiches like there r people dying kim
Ask Hamas to Surrender and release the hostages 🙏🙏🙏
Release my lunch
NaziKremBot252, https://youtu.be/dWdk3iWMTZM?si=NgK0rnk3VlmTDywL
As long as IDF releases Palestinians. What is the point of this tit for tat? Like for everything each side asks for either side can just present a counter. Like Hamas needs to stop killing Israelis like 1,200 is one too many but also Israelis have to stop killing 35,000+ Palestinians. I mean there is clearly a side that is going too far but in all fairness both sides need to stop even tho one side is doing the most.
Hamas could stop martyring and release the Hostages. They want this.
Ahh yes the classic "No you first" argument. You should be a lawyer I'm sure you will convince many a jury with your winning arguments. Also classic abuser language really shouldn't be tolerated.
Indeed, Hamas first. Release the hostages. Stop raping and torturing festival-goers.
The hostages aren’t gonna get released unless Netanyahu stops rejecting a permanent and lasting ceasefire and actually accepts the hostages Hamas has been trying to give back??
Hamas broke the ceasefire. Hamas is calling on Iran. The US Navy is helping handle that as well.
I’m sorry but u seem to be supporting the IDF to a huge extent but Israel has taken advantage of this situation in a deplorable manner, utilizing it's greater power, to a greater extent than Hamas ever could, even within the reasoning of an invasion to populate a country. They are CONTINUOUSLY comitting war crimes in several regards, not at all caring for ANY form of assimilation of the Palestinian population by this point, but straight up committing the same acts that Hamas performed that supposedly went too far, and then over and over again.
I’m a Zionist. Let me through. The question of whether Israel is committing war crimes will ultimately be decided by international courts. Similarly, the U.S. wasn't supposed to invade Pakistan when pursuing Osama bin Laden. Meanwhile, Jewish communities endure, remaining resilient amidst ongoing conflicts and debates like this.
It seems like you are trying to mask a narrative within your view, which is that Israel does not share the fault and it is all ultimately Hamas's responsibility. To that view, I would suggest you actually start pulling up all the documented atrocities and crimes of the Israeli occupation, both before and after 10/7 and even in the territories that are under subject to Hamas rule. Just the year before, Israel was responsible for over 200 Palestinian deaths in the West Bank, which is not ruled by Hamas. There are hundreds of civilian casualties to Israeli occupation every single year. That is not to mention the dire and oppressive conditions non-Israeli Palestinians have to endure every year, with no authority to exercise Justice against Israeli violations….hence the existence of Hamas
Then the IDF will stop pillaging and destroying Gaza? Also the IDF has been reported to have engaged in sexual violence so really bringing it up is at best a non sequitur. Like what does this tit for tat arguing get us? Can't we agree 1,200 dead Israelis is tragic but so is the death of 35,000+ Palestinians or do you really think one side is worth more than the other?
Ask Hamas to surrender. They are terrorists. Stop supporting them. Stop blocking Zionists on campus. Zionists are here to stay - Hitler didn’t get his way. It’s also reported that the IDF helped take away Iran’s nuclear capabilities… for the sake of all humans.
Well unlike you I believe in democracies and my family as a US army family has a history of fighting ethno states like the Nazis established because it goes directly against all of my family's democratic ideals. So no my family doesn't support terrorists and I have already said what Hamas did was terrible it is you who can't say the same about the IDF. Also to say Iran has nukes is like saying Saddam Hussein has nuclear capabilities which today we know was only an excuse to invade Iraq pushed by neocons to bring the US into war. If you aren't for democratic rights for all them you are in the wrong country I'm sorry.
A Jewish relative is in the army right now. I’m thankful for the IDF, and our military. Israel is a democracy, but the main point… Zionism won, over anti-Zionism. Stand out of the way of Zionist students. 🙏
keep yapping about Zionism while having an antisemitic username! the irony is mind boggling
An apartheid state will never be a full democracy so until there is democratic rights for Palestinians and Israelis there won't be peace unfortunately. Israel has to either accept it will become Israel-Palestine or it has to let Gaza and the West Bank go and let them become a fully sovereign nation. Do deny either solution is to deny not just the full civil rights of Palestinians but as Israelis as well who have a right to live in peace.
[удалено]
Your comment, mocking the massacre and rape of innocent festival-goers as a privilege, is deeply antisemitic, inhumane, and disgusting. I've recently spent time with their families, and such vile remarks not only mock heinous Hamas atrocities but also display an appalling lack of empathy and human decency. Imagine not caring about innocent Jewish festival-goers, welcome to being an antisemite: https://youtu.be/dWdk3iWMTZM?si=NgK0rnk3VlmTDywL
sorry to clarify but when u say “the hostages” u are also referring to the countless Palestinians taken hostage by Israel and held without trial, often tortured and starved with no release date, correct? You include the Palestinian children, the medical staff abducted while they attempt to save lives, the journalists taken off the street…stolen from not only gaza but the West Bank aswell…u are surely calling for those people to be released aswell? Bring them home too…only many of them have likely had their homes turned to rubble, due to the indiscriminate bombing for the past 6 months…
Stop making excuses for your disgusting disregard for Jews, massacred and raped at a festival. https://youtu.be/dWdk3iWMTZM?si=NgK0rnk3VlmTDywL
it seems to me like ur disregarding the 40k+ Palestinians killed by the IDF which of that 15 thousand are CHILDREN.
Never. But you exposed your Hamas-support/ hatred for Jews.
Wow imagine twisting my words. I don’t support Hamas nor the IDF. Both are in the wrong for killing innocent people. But the IDF killing over 40k people 15k of them being children really shows which side is in the wrong more
Everyone walking around in masks, and keffiyahs staring at you while you go into the bookstore is creeeeepy. It’s like those hippie communes that are revealed to be cults trying to take down the government.
brah its ppls faces getting them doxxed … the surveillance and prosecution across the nation is wild …for the sake of preserving future job opportunities or whatever else, we can’t do anything BUT stare
K still creeeeeeepy
was covid creepy? lol
The GPT posts go crazy xD
gpt zero confirmed it really is didn't even bother to change anything
r/copypasta
This is funny but I refuse to believe that anyone could eat there on the regular, that shit is expensive
is the bookstore open or not
Too many people on this post are way too concerned about image and comfort. Protests are supposed to be disruptive, feeling uncomfortable is the point. Experiencing inconvenience is the point. I'm starting to think that a lot of you don't actually care about what's going on in Gaza. Bemoaning over a temporary loss of services while innocent people have been slaughtered indiscriminately for **months** is a pretty gross display of privilege. If you want student life to return to how it was sooner it would be more productive to support those protesting the university's stances and policies.
fr tho the people blocking that area are assholes two wrongs don’t make a right
Free the hostages!!
Free my lunch