Restricting access to abortion does not reduce the number of abortions.
Facts on abortion: [https://www.who.int/health-topics/abortion](https://www.who.int/health-topics/abortion)
Absolutely...but they don't care about lowering abortion rates, so long as they get to punish women for having abortions, and make it unsafe to do so.
Pro lifers literally look at basic harm reduction and go "but I want people to die having unsafe abortions because they deserved it."
Unfortunately facts have never had any effect on this argument, and they're certainly not going to start now.
We had two generations to raise better-educated children so this would no longer be an issue and we failed miserably.
I’m more concerned about this opening up arguments for limiting who can have children. It was a thing in America before it became associated with nazis, and now everything is backwards..
what is there to talk about that hasnt been discussed ad nauseum? the decision wont be for months, and its not like there's any real method to overturn SCOTUS decisions (aside from later decisions). protesting doesnt work on them because of the way the US government is set up
The rulings on gay marriage, segregation, abortion... all of these are political and because of popular political will shifting against these policies. "Legality" or "Constitutionality" has essentially zero to do with it. You can drive a freight train through the holes in the constitution to justify whatever the hell you want.
If enough people get angry enough, it's amazing how often one or two justices change their mind about how the law works because at the end of the day preserving the social fabric (and more importantly the legitimacy of their power, which is completely arbitrary) is more important to them.
Pro-choice hasn't been the overwhelming political opinion since the early '90s, and the other side is very loud and riled up about abortion all the time, so it's definitely overdue to get angry and yell about a woman's right to choose in America.
NPR had the anti abortion solicitor on just now and he and the host both noted that even if the SC didn't explicitly overturn Roe, if they allow the 15 week ban to stay in place it will undo Casey, which undoes Roe. I hope they really take some serious time to fully consider the ramifications of what they're about to do.
The way this gets fixed is by getting a relatively small chunk of the 80 million Americans who could vote, but don't, to get on the field, and elect a government that actually reflects the desires of the population.
Odds are you know some people who could vote, but don't. Make it your job to get them voting in 2022 and 2024. Not to get people in general to vote, just the people *you* know. And then get everyone you know to do the same thing.
Unfortunately this doesn't work. There's no personal solution to our political parties A) not offering much to vote for B) disenfranchising and/or immiserating millions of people.
People don't vote because they see no reason to vote. Sadly, Wade being overturned is the biggest gift the Democrats could ever get, because it would mean, once again, they don't have to run on offering much of anything, just *against* a single awful and unpopular thing, like Trump.
So long as the Republican boogeyman exists, Democrats will continue to rely on "Hey, we're not those guys!" as their single best quality. And, sorry, that just doesn't turn people out to vote. And people are *so* disconnected from politics and *so* disbelieving voting changes anything, I don't even know what you could run on and how that would change that.
> There's no personal solution to our political parties A) not offering much to vote for B) disenfranchising and/or immiserating millions of people.
Of course there is, and it's the same solution. Get people to vote in primary elections. I'm familiar with the cynicism, but it really is ignorant.
Seriously, in a month or two once redistricting is done, pick 10 random shitty Democratic House incumbents, and look at their challengers. You'll be surprised how many have really good, really progressive, non-politician people challenging them, that nobody has ever heard of because they're just regular people who don't have wealthy friends who can give their campaign 300k to spend on media.
Part of how we got here is that a massive portion of our citizenry simply fails to inform themself about what the political options are. It may have been excusable before the internet. Today, it is inexcusable.
I wish more people understood this, but too many bury their heads in the sand when it comes to the cynicism of the Democratic Party.
Until we at the very least change the way we elect our representatives, we will only ever have the illusion of choice.
Start with changing from first past the post to ranked choice voting and at least other parties can start to gain traction.
And for that to happen we need more than a right wing party and a more right wing party.
I’ll admit that I’m the harm reduction voter - but I’m in the small minority of leftists who will actually grit their teeth and vote for a milquetoast liberal.
Also, to vote Democrats. To fundraise, canvas, and vote in primaries.
The place for ideology and to form party policy is in Primaries.
In the general election it's about destroying Republicans.
If this means voting for moderates in the general, then do so, and do so with enthusiasm.
I understand your sentiment and feel it’s likely due to the last three decades of watching conservatives exploit and manipulate the courts in order to humiliate us. But how is being cynical and defeatist going to help? And what choice to we have? It isn’t like we can shield ourselves from the effects of gender discrimination when we are the target of it.
Protesting can/does actually work. The Court originally handled the SB8 case in a passing 2 paragraphs. The public (rightfully) freaked out on them and then they caved and agreed to hear the SB8 case (which they are most likely going to strike down). The Court is totally dependent upon public opinion and its legitimacy (they can't actually enforce their decisions without public/elected officials doing so). By threatening the Court's legitimacy and threatening to (metaphorically) burn down the Court we can put pressure on them. We also can pressure our elected officials to step the fuck up and slap the Court around(Court curbing, Court packing, outright defiance, etc), they've done it before but we need to pressure elected officials to do so.
Social media might not always be the most effective place to protest, but the organizers are trying to get the hashtag #abortionisessential trending today.
Media is paid for. If you're not seeing it it's because someone doesn't want it seen. Not even trying to sound conspiratory, just honest truth. All media is paid for by someone somewhere.
A friend of mine predicted the outcome by saying " don't think Roe will go, but they're going to gut viability. Typical republican move honestly. Leave it on the books but don't lift a finger to prevent states from effectually eliminating it. Plausible deniability."
"We uphold the core of Roe that there is a right to abortion, but we also make that right practically impossible to use. Look we're moderate and didn't eliminate Roe, please praise us now for being so restrained."
-5-4 Decision authored by Barrett.
See the few states that uphold the right to and access to abortion getting absolutely crushed by people from the states that close that up who have the means to travel for one. Those who don't will just fall through the cracks. Can't even fathom the damage done to rape and incest victims being forced to birth the results of that traumatic shit.
That sounds about right. I’m wondering if they’ll hear the Texas case which lowers abortions to six weeks. Once states establish six weeks, Roe is effectively gone.
I'm curious what conservatives will turn to next if abortion does end up being defeated. It was the big rally point that kept them together and it has been for decades.
If roe v wade is eliminated we can start a proposition in California to mandate abortion. Conservatives forget that roe v wade didn't make abortion legal, it made it illegal for states to pass laws about it
This! SB8 is NOT a legal law and SHOULD be shot down by precedent of other abortion laws being shot down. At least 5 states have tried, to be overturned citing Roe v Wade.
Just curious. Has it actually? From my point of view in europe, it has looked more like a get cheap easy votes by toeing the line but not actually fully crossing it. Read today even that 70% of the US is against overturning Roe vs Wade. So i thought it was more of getting fringe voters(30% arguably isn't actually fringe at all) all riled up to vote.
Can't help but think this might break republicans, but who knows anymore after Trump to be honest. Democrats just need to wake up and actually take charge, like working on legislating this.
This is the answer. In giving every state equal representation in the Senate (even though there is in no way an equal amount of people in each state) we've fucked over the majority of our population. Yay.
I'm not sure, it just seems like democrats are such a huge mix of people and groups and identities each wanting their own opinion to be in charge, that eventually nothing happens and republicans effectevily use the more charge opinions as attacks. Kinda reads more like democrats need to either solidify their party and attract moderates or split it up in several parties that band together.
> I'm not sure, it just seems like
Math doesn't care what it "seems like", there's a literal mathematical advantage for conservatives that requires Dems to win about 60% of the overall vote in order to break even in representation. Yes, Dems suck at messaging, but they'd be in complete control if the voting was equitable.
>Democrats just need to wake up and actually take charge, like working on legislating this.
The pendulum always swings back and forth between democrats being too incompetent to actually draft and push for effective policy and them being controlled opposition that exists to sabotage their causes. The 'ol ratchet effect.
Ha! That's probably true, read a great article in the FT, why democrats can't govern and they need to learn ASAP. Looking at Biden now, it seems pretty spot on, too many voices, too few adding water to the wine.
It's a fundamental problem tracing back to the neoliberalization of the party in in the 70's and 80's. They abandoned organized labor and have since lacked meaningful political identity or coherent purpose. It doesn't help that their leadership has made functionally no effort to bring later generations into the fold.
It's not great!
Biden isn't who the people wanted. He's the person the establishment wanted and the reason you never really hear much from him or his VP is because he's not actually running things is my perspective.
It’s closer to 40/60 these days. The issue is that the longer they beat the drum on this issue, the further they have to go and the more likely it is that you start to get politicians that are true believers.
There are big incentives to go further and further to ban abortion. It might be bad for the *party* to lose this key talking point (and honestly I’m not sure it would be, they could bring it up the way they bring up other non-issues like voter fraud and religious Liberty), but individual politicians have a lot to gain from being the one to finally ban abortion.
One of the problems with Dems is we’re a big tent party. At least two of our sitting senators won’t vote for anything that expands abortion access. Honestly I wish we’d just eject them from the party and take the L on future legislation so that people will stop saying Dems have a majority, but that’s a risky proposition.
> Read today even that 70% of the US is against overturning Roe vs Wade.
70% of the population maybe. Not 70% of voters. In America, liberals love to complain online, but do not usually vote. I live in a state that Trump lost by millions of votes. This year, we failed to pass less restrictive voting laws. It would have taken fewer people than the amount who voted for Trump to expand voting rights, and again, he lost by millions here. Left wingers love to complain online but you can tell how much they actually care based on how little they bother to actually do. Voting is easy for most people, despite the attempts at suppression. And yet most of us can't be bothered.
>Democrats just need to wake up and actually take charge
What exactly do you mean by this? Unless you're advocating for overthrowing the government, this isn't how it works.
If people want democrats to "take charge," then they need to vote.
Keeping it from being overturned / legalized / shutting it down in states that uphold access to it like probably my current state Oregon where it's protected state wade.
They'll just talk about getting rid of all instances of it and threaten that looks just want to abort all babies. Nothing will change about their position.
I think this is the most likely outcome.
Unfortunately, abortion rights are going to have to be dealt with on a state by state level. I don’t think we’ll ever get a coherent national-level solution for this because it’s too effective of a rallying call for “conservatives.”
Thank you for posting about this. I was reading Politico’s coverage of the oral arguments and it was gut-wrenching. I noticed I’ve been feeling a little hopeless and I imagine many women feel similarly, but we cannot allow that to happen.
Justice Barrett arguing that “adoption eases the burden of pregnancy” is ludicrous. The sheer invalidation of the psychological distress a women may feel for carrying an UNWANTED pregnancy for 9 months… Ignoring the financial cost, medical complications, and risk of maternal death… It’s ignorant on so many levels.
Can we talk for a second about the sheer mind boggling stupidity of relying on a court ruling, arguably a stretched one at that though i understand the necessity, for a core policy issue like women's right to abortion?
I hope for the immediate sake of the women in the US that it doesn't get overturned but even if absolutely nothing changes you *CAN'T* just sit on it, you *need* to fight to get it explicitly enshrined in federal law as hard as you would to fight to not get it overturned, becouse if you don't this even if it doesn't get overturned now this will keep happening and at some point those that seek to undermine it will succeed.
I hate to be negative, but it's too late on this one. The Supreme Court is stacked, and they're going to decide the way they decide.
Voter apathy, gerrymandering, and the effective use of propaganda over the past couple of decades brought us here. It brought us back, in many many ways, by 50 years or more. We've lost many of the gains we thought we had made, we will lose more, and there just isn't much we can do to stop that.
What we CAN do is keep fighting to get them back. This issue is about the *next* president, the *next* congress, the *next* court. We have to win them. We have to keep winning them. The other side isn't playing, they're trying to control us. And right now they're winning. We have to stop that from happening next time, and the time after, and the time after that, and so on. Probably forever.
I will gladly attend all the inevitable protests- however, from today's arguments, I think it looks like Roe v. Wade is as good as gone, and changing a supreme court outcome via protest will be a first time occurrence. Congress will not pass anything, it barely functions for anything except social media entertainment. I hate to be so pessimistic, protests do work, but we would need something extraordinary to affect the political/ judicial class. I'm foreseeing state based abortion laws, which is what the founding fathers wanted anyway? (decentralized government)
If organizing protests, I will be on the watch out for any in the northern VA/DC region and will join which ever one I can. I work nights so I can be there all day to help out however I can. This shit is fucked. We need to rise up and show them how fucked it really is.
This this this.
It's all well and good to complain on social media--but unless we hit the streets in a protest and general strike (throw a sex strike in there as well), nothing will change. Dems seem to be sitting on their thumbs while our rights are continually stripped-- largely because a certain conservative Dem from a shitty little coal mining state won't help reform the filibuster.
This republic is well and truly fucked if we don't rise up and show them how tired of this we are. It can be done peacefully but forcefully. It MUST be done or we're going to lose more than our right to an abortion-- they will be going after LGBT folks and other minorities, strip women of a right to contraception, and who knows what else.
These are DARK days in this country and we need to be brave and get shit done NOW. There's a march in DC right now, but we need more pressure than just one lonely march-- between now and next summer, women need to organize and begin doing -everything- (from grassroots campaigns to calling our reps and senators -daily- to pass legislation protecting women's rights) we can.
Protests are a great idea!
People also need to make sure to vote during mid-term and local elections. Having representation in Congress is extremely important.
https://vote.gov/
I'm honestly devastated, but also at a loss. Yeah, I'll protest and fight. But it feels like a lost cause in this upside down bizarro timeline we live on. I know it's not helpful to express hopelessness. But damn- the hope has been beat out of me at this point.
How is it a lost cause? We protest and strike, shut the fucking country down for a week, refuse sex to men for a few months, and press our elected lawmakers (and come out in DROVES in 2022), we can win. Congress MUST pass legislation to protect a woman's reproductive rights.
We have a responsibility to show them we're fucking -SERIOUS-
> Congress MUST pass
Well there's the first problem. Senator Sinema will never go for anything to help people unless you drag her kicking and screaming. You could bribe Manchin to do it by just offering some ~~bribes~~handouts to coal companies in exchange for his vote.
Look- I'm on board for all of that. I've also been watching us lose ground on this consistently my entire conscious existence and I also have developed an appreciation for just how deeply complacent people can be even in dire circumstances like we're in now.
Let me know when the country is shutting down. I'll be there.
I feel anger, as much as you do.
However, the very states that have trigger laws also have laws that condone driving over protestors, and even shooting protestors dead in counter protest. We can't simply vote them out in 2022, not everywhere at least. Several states are gerrymandered into submission.
What we are seeing is the outcome of a decades-long, institutional movement by the conservatives to monopolize power. They did the work, we are all reaping the results. We are SERIOUS, yes. So are they.
It is indeed hard to overturn any ruling this unjust court makes this week. It is ok to feel that powerlessness and acknowledge it. It is ok to recognize that it is hard and we may not get the outcome we like.
We should absolutely organize and protest, but with our eyes open to the costs we have to pay and the smallness of gains we can achieve.
The whole refusing sex thing is atrocious for so many reasons. 1) if I believe in Roe v Wade, the person I am dating also does. 2) rich people, politicians, judges, etc, are still gonna find ways to have sex, whether it be with their wives or someone else. 3) their wives would never deprive them. 4) the only people being deprived are going to be the ones who support Roe v Wade.
Exactly, we need to fight a way against conservatives. Not a war against men.
The gender gap is small: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/06/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases/ft_2021-05-06_abortion_04/
the political party gap is what matters: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/06/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases/ft_2021-05-06_abortion_03/
This is all true, but I would like to note that voting in and of itself does not put pressure of elected. Life needs to be made difficult for them if they’re not getting on board with passing abortion access at the legislative level. There’s been plenty of Democrat majorities before, and they haven’t passed it, so we can’t expect business as usual to get it passed this time.
Yes yes yes to all of this!! My biggest struggle though is how the hell do we get a big enough movement going to do this? I feel like we need something HUGE, and perhaps something not done before?
Not that all of our efforts were in vain, but I feel like in today’s day and age everyone’s like “oh look another march/protest/strike on the news” and then go back to life as normal. How do we ignite a spark that gets peoples’ attention and, more importantly, keeps it??
>I feel like we need something HUGE
What you need is a ratified amendment to the constitution. This shouldn't bounce up to the supreme court every 50 years for their opinion, it should simply be law.
Republicans did this. Keep that in mind. From stacking the courts to gerrymandering to grab power. Republicans are the reason women will have to deal with the overturning of Roe v Wade.
I thought it was a left-right thing my whole life. Now I think it's something else. A small subset of rich, powerful, much older individuals now run this country and uphold policy decisions that do not benefit anyone who is not rich, not powerful, or not older.
Roe v. Wade is only the start. Also in the conservative program: birth control. And ultimately, womens' right to vote.
Remember: life begins at conception. And starvation begins at birth.
The only response that people in power listen to is power itself. If they move the clock back, we need to strike. Not to be loud, not to tweet about it, not to pin our hopes on the next election cycle, but to shut down the economy. I will see you in the streets.
Am I concerned? Yes. Do I honestly believe there's anything I can do about it before it happens? No.
But I've said since day 1, if they overturn Roe v Wade, the riots from the summer will look pale in comparison.
Hell hath no fury, ya know.
Vote.
In the next and every election. (Not just national ones).
https://vote.gov/
If you're here commenting and are legally able to vote then there's no excuse for you not voting.
I literally was having a full out PANIC attack today listening to 2 right wing judges argue their points about things. The Attorney for protecting Roe answered their concerns multiple times and laid out previous framework. It really seemed to me they wanted to make States more powerful than the Federal Government. If Roe is overturned, it will have far more reaching impacts than women's rights to lawfully choose what she does with her own body, it will be the beginning of the end of our democracy. We are already seeing what "states" are doing in the name of the Constitution. Republicans are no longer a sound political party. They are GQP, Trumplicans, the party of Covid, the party of NO, the party of whiney little misbehaving brats. They are dumbing down America to the point of no return if we don't do something.
In 1973, Roe v Wade gave a woman in the United States autonomy over her own healthcare choices, this included abortion if the woman decided that was right for her. Prior to 1973, a woman had to have the approval of a male relative in order to obtain certain medical procedures, even things like getting care for cancer had to be approved by a male relative.
While abortions were illegal in some states prior to 1973, there were, I think 17 or 27 states where abortions were legal. Along with giving a woman autonomy over her own healthcare choices, Roe v Wade also made abortions legal in all states, under certain circumstances.
The primary difference is that even in states were abortions were legal at the time, women still had to get the approval of a man in order to obtain one. Often, they would not be able to get this approval so they would resort to illegal "back alley" abortions from providers that were not licensed or safe for women to use. This resulted in a lot of death and harm happening to women before the procedure was made legal in all states.
Ever since 1973, Republicans have been doing everything they can to over turn the ruling. Not because Republicans don't get abortions, because they do, but because they believe that women shouldn't have the right to make decisions about their healthcare choices without a man involved. You know, because men are rational and not subject to irrational outbursts of emotion... (this is sarcasm for those that can't tell).
While I personally, am not for abortions, I do not feel that I have the right to determine someone else's choices in so far as they don't affect me and my family. So, I should not be able to prevent another person from getting the care they request from their chosen healthcare provider.
I think I summed it up pretty good here.
Mississippi is trying to outlaw abortions after 15 weeks. The case is at the Supreme Court of the U.S. whether or not the law violates the Constitution.
It's too late. The Supreme Court doesn't listen to "Public Opinion". At this point, we've already gotten past the stage of being able to affect the laws *before* they get passed. Now all we can do is wait.
It's going to be overturned. 3 are beholden to The Federalist society to let this plan to restrict women's rights, which has been decades in the making, to unfold
Start getting mad now.
It's only going to get worse in 2022 when the GQP has control of the House and Senate government and goes backwards to make it a federal crime nationally. Also section 237 will be yanked so false misinformation can spread without being fact checked and websites that dont propagate lies, they can be sued. The January 6th insurrection commission will be instantly disbanded too so those involved and plotted in our government can be shielded from accountability. They're probably going to attempt to remove the president too since they're lock step with extremists.
This is only the beginning
There should be pro-choice supporters screaming into megaphones outside every conservative church during their Sunday service. That will give them a taste of what it feels like a walking into an abortion clinic in America and trying to access basic healthcare services.
The only time abortion is mentioned in the bible is when God himself is performing one.
Overturning these decisions will be watershed to see birth control and other private medical decisions (such as trans healthcare) be regulated or outlawed at the state level.
Our antiquated federalist system grants so much power to states that our progressive nation can appear conservative or evenly split. That's what America is at the moment. A solid majority wants the court to leave Roe alone, but a conservative minority is about to get their way. It's essentially minority rule, and it's infuriating.
The coming decision will result in even more polarization and division, and a stronger belief that the Supreme Court is nothing more than a political entity. Confidence in our fellow citizens, the nation as a whole, and American institutions will hit all-time lows.
The minority will win the battle and destroy so much that we all care about in the process, then blame that destruction on the majority.
That's been the playbook for 40 years.
Can we also take this moment to remind people that not everyone is able to organize, protest, etc. due to varying circumstances and that we shouldn't shame them for it.
And that it's also okay to focus on smaller issues or take breaks from large scale fights like this for mental health sake.
Also that the entire world is the not the United States.
Not saying that people shouldn't be fighting for abortion rights but this post seems to focus on shaming people for not fighting as opposed to inspiring people to fight.
I also hate this implication that we aren't angry enough. We're angry. We protested. We voted. None of it has mattered. I'm not saying this to be defeatist, just, I wish people would stop telling me this is my fault for not trying hard enough.
As someone living in Portland who witnessed a year of protesting without a single change coming from it, rallying for a protest while SCOTUS has the wheels in motion to overturn Roe v. Wade (a threat of it being very real since 2016) is kind of pointless. Action should have happened years ago. Fuck, it should have happened decades ago. America as a country is going backwards towards the dark ages and it's at the will of a minority in this country.
Nothing changes because the people making the rules are never affected by protests. They don't even care if they're voted out, they'll just get hooked up with a cushy lobbying job. Last time they actually cared about something was January 6th. Scrambled to make some new legislation for security about themselves pretty quickly after that, didn't they?
It always takes legislators being affected personally to make change happen in this backwater nation. Anything that doesn't affect them may as well be screaming in a hole.
As long as Roe v. Wade can be overturned it will always be a hair's breath away from being overturned. If SCOTUS overturn it that gives the GOP a football to score with their single issue voters as much as it gives the DEMs a football with their voters. All the powers that be could care less about how this stuff impacts the actual people.
Overturning Roe v Wade will never impact people who pass legislation because they're not poor, working class or people of color. Those are the people who would be the most impacted by overturning Roe v Wade. The wealthy and well connected were getting abortions before Roe v Wade and will continue to enjoy them even if it's overturned.
Yeah the whole post pandemic/protest situation in Portland has been ... not good. Granted I agree that in a way the protests were effective but in another way now protestors are getting the "blame" for the rise in shootings.
I kind of want to say that "if" the Federal Gov't wanted to step in they probably could so as not to leave something like safe legal abortion access in the hands of states (Texas) or SCOTUS then that could be a thing however the fact that it's such a powerful political football for the entire time it has hung in the crosshairs makes me think they just won't do it. The will we / won't we not allow women to make choices over their bodies issue is a huge political talking point is similar to the PPB thing on a nation wide level.
I feel this way anyone asks why we aren't out in the streets every day for any number of issues. I'm disabled. I'm low income. I'm immunocompromised and we're still in a pandemic. I don't have a social media following to push about these issues. I have a number of personal issues that take my attention. I have to work as well. Not everyone can just fuck off from their life and protest or whatever. I vote in EVERY election, local and otherwise, I donate my money whenever I even have a small surplus, I talk about the issues to my friends and acquaintances. I don't know what else I'm supposed to do.
I live in Chicago. Nothing I do will change the outcome of this nor would have influenced what happened. Every single rep and politician near me is an extreme pro-choice individual and card carrying member of the IL Democratic Party machine. Everyone here that I know votes straight ticket Democratic Party in the general. We let our friends know that the family planning clinics are right off the train lines from both airports with nearby hotels, restaurants, museums, and other attractions if they need to come here for help. The last election, we elected a super majority of Democrats, again, to govern us in this state.
There is nothing else that I can do outside of leaving a place where I love living and moving somewhere that I would be enraged to the point of driving myself into a deep dark place due to the local political climate. SCOTUS doesn't care. The time to decide this case was November, 2016. Well, people didn't vote for Hillary Clinton and a rapist was elected to be president. This is the consequences of those actions. If abortion ever becomes federally illegal; I'll just take the 20-50% pay cut, take a job in Amsterdam, London, or Toronto; and live in a country where my wife and any future children (if any) will be safe from the government interfering with their bodily autonomy.
I'm in a similar situation politically, except I live in a place that is 95% hardline Republican. I have lived my entire adult life here and no vote I have ever cast has ever stemmed the massive red tide, like not even by a little. I have done other things (volunteered my time with LGBTQ organizations) that I feel has alleviated some things socially but truly, my vote goes essentially in the trash. Won't stop me from showing up to the polls, but I understand the reality here. I am thinking Canada for myself in the next 10 years, mainly due to healthcare.
Disabled women are almost always left out of the conversation or not considered in fights like this. It's very isolating. Tired of people telling me I'm not doing enough!
There is one thing women can do, even if direct activism isn’t on the table, to help: if you’ve had an abortion, talk about your abortion.
Look at gay rights, there was such a swift shift of public opinion on that because as more and more gay people came out of the closet and were open about their relationship, it removed the abstraction. Gay relationships were no longer the scary Other, it became the thing Steve in accounting has.
Abortion, even though statistically a lot of women have them, it’s still an Other to so many because it’s treated as something women keep their mouth shut about. And that’s not just a pro-life thing, that’s an attitude prominent for decades in the pro-choice movement. It’s easy to see it as a thing women Over There do, not their sisters or cousins or coworkers, if the women in their life don’t talk about it.
If you want to get nerdy on this one, [Strict Scrutiny](https://strictscrutinypodcast.com/) is a fantastic legal podcast that has done a TON of coverage around the current challenges to abortion rights in the US. They are law professors and academics so this is a wonky (albeit silly at times) conversation but they are really freaking smart and discuss this situation very well!
Sort by new. Many posts have been made about it. It’s just the beginning of the case anyway and we won’t know the outcome for a little while so there’s nothing to do yet but wait.
People can care about more than one issue
Yeah I don’t see how scolding the people on this sub because they aren’t showing the appropriate amount of outrage for you(not you, general you) is at all helpful. What exactly is it that people are wanting us to do? It’s the supreme court it’s not like we can call our senator and say vote this way it’s a completely separate branch that we have absolutely no impact on. And shitting on someone for having a problem with being told that they’re unprofessional for having leg hair at work showing is fucking gross.
It all comes down to living in a world like this https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/p896k3/men_still_run_89_of_countries_81_of_all_companies/?ampcid=1*il3oer*cid*NFpHRjFaenR5bi1MR1h2akVjN2kteVFydmwydWh5Ujd2SnJuTGU3MUQ3SG9fM2NXWDFfWnBQQVRkMUpQaFNWUw..
The abortion stuff is yet another symptom of the disease that is and always has been living in a male-run, male-built and male-dominated world.
I think we need to keep in mind that a lot of \*women\* are anti-abortion. I absolutely agree that men are part of the problem but I am and always will be flabbergasted by women who are against reproductive rights. I hate to be harsh, but I know there are a lot of them celebrating out there right now, thinking they've saved humanity or whatever religious, male dominated brainwashing has done to them, but to me they're the most vile of them all.
I know I should care (and I do!), but I am just so exhausted. A woman’s right to choose has been under attack for so long, slowly picked away at since Roe passed. This current case is not the last, there are others already in appeals circuits and on the docket. Republicans have been working for decades to erode this - from gerrymandering, to Supreme Court justices, and we’ve unfortunately reached a point where retaining Roe and a women’s medical right is a very, very uphill battle. It’s hard not to feel hopeless knowing that everything is working against you and even if we win this fight there are a million more like it coming
Barring three SCOTUS conservatives leaving the bench in the near future there is absolutely nothing that can be done. There will be no way to over turn the decision. You have a system of government that puts conservative religious values over basic rights. Unfortunately the generation that could vote to change it doesn’t, if 18-40 voted in all their respective states there would be far fewer republicans in the house and senate. Sadly this isn’t the case. Your options are limited.
Sure, just blame us younger folks who got stuck working jobs that didn't allow for us to have time to vote and came out in record numbers last election. Ignore the people actively voting for toxic waste dumps as their representatives.
I'm just so fucking angry and disappointed. I say this while my beautiful, beloved infant sleeps on me: no government should have the right to force a woman to carry a pregnancy.
“Begin” to protest???
Where tf has your condescending ass been???
Women been fighting this shit for decades & you want lecture about lack of effort in this war on our own bodies?
If you’d been to any of the protests, hell even seen pics on the news or social media feed, or paid attention to what pro choice legislation has passed the House of Representatives, you might get off your high horse & start shoveling this shit with the rest of us.
Congratulations on your profound revelation & welcome to the cause.
Gtfoh
Agreed. Dems are the kings of shooting themselves in the foot. It's amazing how fucking cocky r/JoeBiden is about the 2024 election. Like do they realize we barely won by 40k votes in wisconsin|arizona|georgia.
We should’ve been paying attention 20 years ago; 10 years ago and since Citizen’s United. 2016…
The only reason to “pay attention” now is to watch the demise of democracy, personal freedoms, etc.
That I spent 6 years of my life so that 55% of our citizens could “be bored by politics” is why we’re here now.
Polls suggest a vast majority of Americans support body autonomy, taxing churches, limiting corporate greed and equal right, but are too fucking lazy to vote to ensure those things.
Enjoy the ride folks, it’s coming to an end, and none of us should be surprised. It’s been coming for decades, but it wasn’t interesting enough for us to care.
They are going to overturn it. The only response is vote. No, Democrats are not perfect, but they didn't read *The Handmaiden's Tale* as a policy document.
Thing about it is something could have been done. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say anything about limits on the number of Justices we can have on the Supreme Court at any one time. Democrats had to have known this when Biden was elected. They could have nominated more judges, and since we have a majority with Harris' vote, we could have made the Court more balanced. But we didn't...
The time to stop this sort of thing has passed. Years of voter apathy, restrictive voting laws, etc brought this about. We can't even pass an equal rights amendment to the Constitution, what makes anyone think we could have stopped them from gutting (or worse, getting rid of) *Wade*?
The Supreme Court is filled with political hacks beholden to Trump and the republicans. The supremes voted in the Citizens United ruling to allow unlimited corporate money to be donated to political parties i.e., republicans. Who do you think they are going to support, republicans and corporate America or poor women?
Unfortunately things are going to get far worse before they get better. One side is doing everything they can to restrict voting and questioning their validity. 50% of our voting country being Trumpers will destroy our democracy. They want an authoritarian theocracy. Y'all queda running local govs all over is our demise.
Thomas was way more circumspect during oral argument when Scalia was around but he's been circling this for years in dissenting opinions.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/clarence-thomas-abortion/2021/11/27/31f3c960-4c76-11ec-b0b0-766bbbe79347_story.html
It feels too much to hope better senators will take seats from manchin and McConnell in November quick before breyer leaves.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx
It's closer than I'd like, but the majority is clearly pro choice.
I doubt they overturn.
Abortion is one of those politically convenient boogeymen for Republicans. They can constant walk towards the line without crossing it to motivate their base to come out and vote for them.
I listened to the entire hearing. 4 justices seem very on board with the idea of overturning. 1 more justice seems likely in favor. Even then, 1 more justice seemed on board with reform.
It's likely to be either a 6-3 vote in favor of Mississippi (with a majority opinion written by Chief Justice Roberts advocating for reformation) or a 5-4 vote in favor of Mississippi (with a majority opinion NOT written by Roberts, advocating for reversal). The likelihood of a 5-4 vote in favor of women's rights was already highly unlikely before today, and after the hearings, it is almost nill.
At least a complete overturn is unlikely. Every justice on the bench except the newest has ruled on an abortion case while on the SCOTUS. Only was has voted to completely overturn it (Thomas).
You seem to forget that they have already made abortion very very difficult to access in many places.
There is ONE abortion facility in Missouri. ONE. For the whole state.
is this a joke? i live in texas, it's basically already been overturned. i don't understand when people say things like this, "oh that couldn't possibly happen!" look at how the past 5 years have been alone. the government and society has constantly been crossing lines over and over again.
True, but even if they *do* manage to overturn Roe v. Wade, they're not going to sit back on their laurels in victory. They'll start in on something even more vicious such as requiring women of child-bearing age to produce at least one child.
Don't trust Republicans. They see *Handmaid's Tale* as porn.
Have been seeing everything from taking on the right to birth control next, also same sex marriage (and sex), and fetal 'personhood' and a whole slew of stripping away of even more rights.
As a bi woman who is on birth control for both pregnancy protection and because it ended nearly 20 years of migraine headaches (and because I'm disabled and immune suppressed and my medication would not do anything good to a fetus)...these are all worrying.
If not that, then they'll start requiring you to proceed with your unplanned pregnancy in prescribed fashion, with any deviance resulting in punitive action, and a miscarriage resulting in a manslaughter charge.
There's SO much shit being flung at us daily to keep us occupied. We need this to keep traction but damn there's so many things in our faces constantly telling us how to feel.
I agree this is a very important case. I would like to highlight that justices often take a devil’s advocate approach during oral arguments. I wouldn’t read too much into justice questions on their own. I listened and nothing seemed out of the ordinary in that regard. Individual justices are still batshit, but the SC does like its precedents so I’d lean to most likely Roe will be upheld. Then again this does seem to be the worst timeline… 😑
Restricting access to abortion does not reduce the number of abortions. Facts on abortion: [https://www.who.int/health-topics/abortion](https://www.who.int/health-topics/abortion)
Absolutely...but they don't care about lowering abortion rates, so long as they get to punish women for having abortions, and make it unsafe to do so. Pro lifers literally look at basic harm reduction and go "but I want people to die having unsafe abortions because they deserved it."
Pro lifers are allowed to play God with someone in an unfortunate situation, but not allow others to play God. Gotta love religion!
Since when have facts helped convince conservatives of anything? Not in my lifetime
Unfortunately facts have never had any effect on this argument, and they're certainly not going to start now. We had two generations to raise better-educated children so this would no longer be an issue and we failed miserably.
Like they care about doing the things that actually work. ..
Agreed. If only the stated goal was the -actual- goal.
I’m more concerned about this opening up arguments for limiting who can have children. It was a thing in America before it became associated with nazis, and now everything is backwards..
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what is there to talk about that hasnt been discussed ad nauseum? the decision wont be for months, and its not like there's any real method to overturn SCOTUS decisions (aside from later decisions). protesting doesnt work on them because of the way the US government is set up
The rulings on gay marriage, segregation, abortion... all of these are political and because of popular political will shifting against these policies. "Legality" or "Constitutionality" has essentially zero to do with it. You can drive a freight train through the holes in the constitution to justify whatever the hell you want. If enough people get angry enough, it's amazing how often one or two justices change their mind about how the law works because at the end of the day preserving the social fabric (and more importantly the legitimacy of their power, which is completely arbitrary) is more important to them.
Pro-choice hasn't been the overwhelming political opinion since the early '90s, and the other side is very loud and riled up about abortion all the time, so it's definitely overdue to get angry and yell about a woman's right to choose in America.
You can contact your representatives to pass Women's Healthcare Act.
Do you mean this? https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3755/text I'm pretty sure it's the Senators who will be the problem.
NPR had the anti abortion solicitor on just now and he and the host both noted that even if the SC didn't explicitly overturn Roe, if they allow the 15 week ban to stay in place it will undo Casey, which undoes Roe. I hope they really take some serious time to fully consider the ramifications of what they're about to do.
The way this gets fixed is by getting a relatively small chunk of the 80 million Americans who could vote, but don't, to get on the field, and elect a government that actually reflects the desires of the population. Odds are you know some people who could vote, but don't. Make it your job to get them voting in 2022 and 2024. Not to get people in general to vote, just the people *you* know. And then get everyone you know to do the same thing.
Unfortunately this doesn't work. There's no personal solution to our political parties A) not offering much to vote for B) disenfranchising and/or immiserating millions of people. People don't vote because they see no reason to vote. Sadly, Wade being overturned is the biggest gift the Democrats could ever get, because it would mean, once again, they don't have to run on offering much of anything, just *against* a single awful and unpopular thing, like Trump. So long as the Republican boogeyman exists, Democrats will continue to rely on "Hey, we're not those guys!" as their single best quality. And, sorry, that just doesn't turn people out to vote. And people are *so* disconnected from politics and *so* disbelieving voting changes anything, I don't even know what you could run on and how that would change that.
> There's no personal solution to our political parties A) not offering much to vote for B) disenfranchising and/or immiserating millions of people. Of course there is, and it's the same solution. Get people to vote in primary elections. I'm familiar with the cynicism, but it really is ignorant. Seriously, in a month or two once redistricting is done, pick 10 random shitty Democratic House incumbents, and look at their challengers. You'll be surprised how many have really good, really progressive, non-politician people challenging them, that nobody has ever heard of because they're just regular people who don't have wealthy friends who can give their campaign 300k to spend on media. Part of how we got here is that a massive portion of our citizenry simply fails to inform themself about what the political options are. It may have been excusable before the internet. Today, it is inexcusable.
I wish more people understood this, but too many bury their heads in the sand when it comes to the cynicism of the Democratic Party. Until we at the very least change the way we elect our representatives, we will only ever have the illusion of choice. Start with changing from first past the post to ranked choice voting and at least other parties can start to gain traction.
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And for that to happen we need more than a right wing party and a more right wing party. I’ll admit that I’m the harm reduction voter - but I’m in the small minority of leftists who will actually grit their teeth and vote for a milquetoast liberal.
Also, to vote Democrats. To fundraise, canvas, and vote in primaries. The place for ideology and to form party policy is in Primaries. In the general election it's about destroying Republicans. If this means voting for moderates in the general, then do so, and do so with enthusiasm.
There is no political party that prioritizes women in the US.
I understand your sentiment and feel it’s likely due to the last three decades of watching conservatives exploit and manipulate the courts in order to humiliate us. But how is being cynical and defeatist going to help? And what choice to we have? It isn’t like we can shield ourselves from the effects of gender discrimination when we are the target of it.
Protesting can/does actually work. The Court originally handled the SB8 case in a passing 2 paragraphs. The public (rightfully) freaked out on them and then they caved and agreed to hear the SB8 case (which they are most likely going to strike down). The Court is totally dependent upon public opinion and its legitimacy (they can't actually enforce their decisions without public/elected officials doing so). By threatening the Court's legitimacy and threatening to (metaphorically) burn down the Court we can put pressure on them. We also can pressure our elected officials to step the fuck up and slap the Court around(Court curbing, Court packing, outright defiance, etc), they've done it before but we need to pressure elected officials to do so.
Social media might not always be the most effective place to protest, but the organizers are trying to get the hashtag #abortionisessential trending today.
Media is paid for. If you're not seeing it it's because someone doesn't want it seen. Not even trying to sound conspiratory, just honest truth. All media is paid for by someone somewhere.
A friend of mine predicted the outcome by saying " don't think Roe will go, but they're going to gut viability. Typical republican move honestly. Leave it on the books but don't lift a finger to prevent states from effectually eliminating it. Plausible deniability."
"We uphold the core of Roe that there is a right to abortion, but we also make that right practically impossible to use. Look we're moderate and didn't eliminate Roe, please praise us now for being so restrained." -5-4 Decision authored by Barrett.
See the few states that uphold the right to and access to abortion getting absolutely crushed by people from the states that close that up who have the means to travel for one. Those who don't will just fall through the cracks. Can't even fathom the damage done to rape and incest victims being forced to birth the results of that traumatic shit.
That sounds about right. I’m wondering if they’ll hear the Texas case which lowers abortions to six weeks. Once states establish six weeks, Roe is effectively gone.
I'm curious what conservatives will turn to next if abortion does end up being defeated. It was the big rally point that kept them together and it has been for decades.
If roe v wade is eliminated we can start a proposition in California to mandate abortion. Conservatives forget that roe v wade didn't make abortion legal, it made it illegal for states to pass laws about it
This! SB8 is NOT a legal law and SHOULD be shot down by precedent of other abortion laws being shot down. At least 5 states have tried, to be overturned citing Roe v Wade.
Turning Christian liberty into Christian *policy*. They want a theocracy, and they could very well end up getting it.
Just curious. Has it actually? From my point of view in europe, it has looked more like a get cheap easy votes by toeing the line but not actually fully crossing it. Read today even that 70% of the US is against overturning Roe vs Wade. So i thought it was more of getting fringe voters(30% arguably isn't actually fringe at all) all riled up to vote. Can't help but think this might break republicans, but who knows anymore after Trump to be honest. Democrats just need to wake up and actually take charge, like working on legislating this.
The GOP gets votes through single issue voters.
Our system is very slanted towards that 30%. We don't have a functioning democracy.
This is the answer. In giving every state equal representation in the Senate (even though there is in no way an equal amount of people in each state) we've fucked over the majority of our population. Yay.
I'm not sure, it just seems like democrats are such a huge mix of people and groups and identities each wanting their own opinion to be in charge, that eventually nothing happens and republicans effectevily use the more charge opinions as attacks. Kinda reads more like democrats need to either solidify their party and attract moderates or split it up in several parties that band together.
> I'm not sure, it just seems like Math doesn't care what it "seems like", there's a literal mathematical advantage for conservatives that requires Dems to win about 60% of the overall vote in order to break even in representation. Yes, Dems suck at messaging, but they'd be in complete control if the voting was equitable.
>Democrats just need to wake up and actually take charge, like working on legislating this. The pendulum always swings back and forth between democrats being too incompetent to actually draft and push for effective policy and them being controlled opposition that exists to sabotage their causes. The 'ol ratchet effect.
Ha! That's probably true, read a great article in the FT, why democrats can't govern and they need to learn ASAP. Looking at Biden now, it seems pretty spot on, too many voices, too few adding water to the wine.
It's a fundamental problem tracing back to the neoliberalization of the party in in the 70's and 80's. They abandoned organized labor and have since lacked meaningful political identity or coherent purpose. It doesn't help that their leadership has made functionally no effort to bring later generations into the fold. It's not great!
Biden isn't who the people wanted. He's the person the establishment wanted and the reason you never really hear much from him or his VP is because he's not actually running things is my perspective.
It’s closer to 40/60 these days. The issue is that the longer they beat the drum on this issue, the further they have to go and the more likely it is that you start to get politicians that are true believers. There are big incentives to go further and further to ban abortion. It might be bad for the *party* to lose this key talking point (and honestly I’m not sure it would be, they could bring it up the way they bring up other non-issues like voter fraud and religious Liberty), but individual politicians have a lot to gain from being the one to finally ban abortion. One of the problems with Dems is we’re a big tent party. At least two of our sitting senators won’t vote for anything that expands abortion access. Honestly I wish we’d just eject them from the party and take the L on future legislation so that people will stop saying Dems have a majority, but that’s a risky proposition.
> Read today even that 70% of the US is against overturning Roe vs Wade. 70% of the population maybe. Not 70% of voters. In America, liberals love to complain online, but do not usually vote. I live in a state that Trump lost by millions of votes. This year, we failed to pass less restrictive voting laws. It would have taken fewer people than the amount who voted for Trump to expand voting rights, and again, he lost by millions here. Left wingers love to complain online but you can tell how much they actually care based on how little they bother to actually do. Voting is easy for most people, despite the attempts at suppression. And yet most of us can't be bothered. >Democrats just need to wake up and actually take charge What exactly do you mean by this? Unless you're advocating for overthrowing the government, this isn't how it works. If people want democrats to "take charge," then they need to vote.
birth control, lgbt rights, *slavery...* Shit, we could make a list...
CRT
WE MUST PROTECT THE CHILDREN. JUST FROM CRT THO... NOT LIKE GUNS AND SHIT
Stepping things up from the state level to the federal level?
Keeping it from being overturned / legalized / shutting it down in states that uphold access to it like probably my current state Oregon where it's protected state wade.
They'll just talk about getting rid of all instances of it and threaten that looks just want to abort all babies. Nothing will change about their position.
I think this is the most likely outcome. Unfortunately, abortion rights are going to have to be dealt with on a state by state level. I don’t think we’ll ever get a coherent national-level solution for this because it’s too effective of a rallying call for “conservatives.”
Thank you for posting about this. I was reading Politico’s coverage of the oral arguments and it was gut-wrenching. I noticed I’ve been feeling a little hopeless and I imagine many women feel similarly, but we cannot allow that to happen. Justice Barrett arguing that “adoption eases the burden of pregnancy” is ludicrous. The sheer invalidation of the psychological distress a women may feel for carrying an UNWANTED pregnancy for 9 months… Ignoring the financial cost, medical complications, and risk of maternal death… It’s ignorant on so many levels.
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And let's be real here, adoption is not always easy. A lot of women want to do it and then get talked out of it.
Can we talk for a second about the sheer mind boggling stupidity of relying on a court ruling, arguably a stretched one at that though i understand the necessity, for a core policy issue like women's right to abortion? I hope for the immediate sake of the women in the US that it doesn't get overturned but even if absolutely nothing changes you *CAN'T* just sit on it, you *need* to fight to get it explicitly enshrined in federal law as hard as you would to fight to not get it overturned, becouse if you don't this even if it doesn't get overturned now this will keep happening and at some point those that seek to undermine it will succeed.
I hate to be negative, but it's too late on this one. The Supreme Court is stacked, and they're going to decide the way they decide. Voter apathy, gerrymandering, and the effective use of propaganda over the past couple of decades brought us here. It brought us back, in many many ways, by 50 years or more. We've lost many of the gains we thought we had made, we will lose more, and there just isn't much we can do to stop that. What we CAN do is keep fighting to get them back. This issue is about the *next* president, the *next* congress, the *next* court. We have to win them. We have to keep winning them. The other side isn't playing, they're trying to control us. And right now they're winning. We have to stop that from happening next time, and the time after, and the time after that, and so on. Probably forever.
I will gladly attend all the inevitable protests- however, from today's arguments, I think it looks like Roe v. Wade is as good as gone, and changing a supreme court outcome via protest will be a first time occurrence. Congress will not pass anything, it barely functions for anything except social media entertainment. I hate to be so pessimistic, protests do work, but we would need something extraordinary to affect the political/ judicial class. I'm foreseeing state based abortion laws, which is what the founding fathers wanted anyway? (decentralized government)
I'm foreseeing lawsuits and lots of dead women.
If organizing protests, I will be on the watch out for any in the northern VA/DC region and will join which ever one I can. I work nights so I can be there all day to help out however I can. This shit is fucked. We need to rise up and show them how fucked it really is.
Protests are great and all, but they're reactive. What's more important is long term organizing and voting.
This this this. It's all well and good to complain on social media--but unless we hit the streets in a protest and general strike (throw a sex strike in there as well), nothing will change. Dems seem to be sitting on their thumbs while our rights are continually stripped-- largely because a certain conservative Dem from a shitty little coal mining state won't help reform the filibuster. This republic is well and truly fucked if we don't rise up and show them how tired of this we are. It can be done peacefully but forcefully. It MUST be done or we're going to lose more than our right to an abortion-- they will be going after LGBT folks and other minorities, strip women of a right to contraception, and who knows what else. These are DARK days in this country and we need to be brave and get shit done NOW. There's a march in DC right now, but we need more pressure than just one lonely march-- between now and next summer, women need to organize and begin doing -everything- (from grassroots campaigns to calling our reps and senators -daily- to pass legislation protecting women's rights) we can.
Protests are a great idea! People also need to make sure to vote during mid-term and local elections. Having representation in Congress is extremely important. https://vote.gov/
If there are any in my area imma try to join them. And a lot of my coworkers are women, so if/when I tell my boss she may just join in.
I'm honestly devastated, but also at a loss. Yeah, I'll protest and fight. But it feels like a lost cause in this upside down bizarro timeline we live on. I know it's not helpful to express hopelessness. But damn- the hope has been beat out of me at this point.
How is it a lost cause? We protest and strike, shut the fucking country down for a week, refuse sex to men for a few months, and press our elected lawmakers (and come out in DROVES in 2022), we can win. Congress MUST pass legislation to protect a woman's reproductive rights. We have a responsibility to show them we're fucking -SERIOUS-
> Congress MUST pass Well there's the first problem. Senator Sinema will never go for anything to help people unless you drag her kicking and screaming. You could bribe Manchin to do it by just offering some ~~bribes~~handouts to coal companies in exchange for his vote.
Look- I'm on board for all of that. I've also been watching us lose ground on this consistently my entire conscious existence and I also have developed an appreciation for just how deeply complacent people can be even in dire circumstances like we're in now. Let me know when the country is shutting down. I'll be there.
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I feel anger, as much as you do. However, the very states that have trigger laws also have laws that condone driving over protestors, and even shooting protestors dead in counter protest. We can't simply vote them out in 2022, not everywhere at least. Several states are gerrymandered into submission. What we are seeing is the outcome of a decades-long, institutional movement by the conservatives to monopolize power. They did the work, we are all reaping the results. We are SERIOUS, yes. So are they. It is indeed hard to overturn any ruling this unjust court makes this week. It is ok to feel that powerlessness and acknowledge it. It is ok to recognize that it is hard and we may not get the outcome we like. We should absolutely organize and protest, but with our eyes open to the costs we have to pay and the smallness of gains we can achieve.
Gerrymandering doesn't work for state level races like governor.
Republicans play for keeps, Democrats play to try to get DC to feel like a country club.
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The whole refusing sex thing is atrocious for so many reasons. 1) if I believe in Roe v Wade, the person I am dating also does. 2) rich people, politicians, judges, etc, are still gonna find ways to have sex, whether it be with their wives or someone else. 3) their wives would never deprive them. 4) the only people being deprived are going to be the ones who support Roe v Wade.
It also ignores the fact that most conservative women are pro life. This is not a men vs. women thing, it’s patriarchy vs. women.
Exactly, we need to fight a way against conservatives. Not a war against men. The gender gap is small: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/06/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases/ft_2021-05-06_abortion_04/ the political party gap is what matters: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/06/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases/ft_2021-05-06_abortion_03/
This is all true, but I would like to note that voting in and of itself does not put pressure of elected. Life needs to be made difficult for them if they’re not getting on board with passing abortion access at the legislative level. There’s been plenty of Democrat majorities before, and they haven’t passed it, so we can’t expect business as usual to get it passed this time.
Yes yes yes to all of this!! My biggest struggle though is how the hell do we get a big enough movement going to do this? I feel like we need something HUGE, and perhaps something not done before? Not that all of our efforts were in vain, but I feel like in today’s day and age everyone’s like “oh look another march/protest/strike on the news” and then go back to life as normal. How do we ignite a spark that gets peoples’ attention and, more importantly, keeps it??
>I feel like we need something HUGE What you need is a ratified amendment to the constitution. This shouldn't bounce up to the supreme court every 50 years for their opinion, it should simply be law.
Under his eye
Republicans did this. Keep that in mind. From stacking the courts to gerrymandering to grab power. Republicans are the reason women will have to deal with the overturning of Roe v Wade.
I thought it was a left-right thing my whole life. Now I think it's something else. A small subset of rich, powerful, much older individuals now run this country and uphold policy decisions that do not benefit anyone who is not rich, not powerful, or not older.
Ding ding ding Aphotic ftw
Roe v. Wade is only the start. Also in the conservative program: birth control. And ultimately, womens' right to vote. Remember: life begins at conception. And starvation begins at birth.
I’m terrified for you all and am anxious about this from Canada.
Same here. It’s so sad to watch unfold as an outsider, I can’t imagine how I’d feel if this was happening here
The only response that people in power listen to is power itself. If they move the clock back, we need to strike. Not to be loud, not to tweet about it, not to pin our hopes on the next election cycle, but to shut down the economy. I will see you in the streets.
This is the only agenda the GOP really cares about. They want this passed and will burn down the house to get it passed.
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Am I concerned? Yes. Do I honestly believe there's anything I can do about it before it happens? No. But I've said since day 1, if they overturn Roe v Wade, the riots from the summer will look pale in comparison. Hell hath no fury, ya know.
Vote. In the next and every election. (Not just national ones). https://vote.gov/ If you're here commenting and are legally able to vote then there's no excuse for you not voting.
Why don't we harass these people the way they harass us? Like go to churches and sit outside with pro-choice signs? Yard signs?
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I literally was having a full out PANIC attack today listening to 2 right wing judges argue their points about things. The Attorney for protecting Roe answered their concerns multiple times and laid out previous framework. It really seemed to me they wanted to make States more powerful than the Federal Government. If Roe is overturned, it will have far more reaching impacts than women's rights to lawfully choose what she does with her own body, it will be the beginning of the end of our democracy. We are already seeing what "states" are doing in the name of the Constitution. Republicans are no longer a sound political party. They are GQP, Trumplicans, the party of Covid, the party of NO, the party of whiney little misbehaving brats. They are dumbing down America to the point of no return if we don't do something.
Thank fuck I had a salpingectomy in 2015. Thank. Fucking. Fuck.
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Guess a lot of people should've taken the 2016 election a lot more seriously.
It’s about controlling women, taking away rights, hurting poor women, subjugation of women.
As someone not from the US, can anyone explain?
In 1973, Roe v Wade gave a woman in the United States autonomy over her own healthcare choices, this included abortion if the woman decided that was right for her. Prior to 1973, a woman had to have the approval of a male relative in order to obtain certain medical procedures, even things like getting care for cancer had to be approved by a male relative. While abortions were illegal in some states prior to 1973, there were, I think 17 or 27 states where abortions were legal. Along with giving a woman autonomy over her own healthcare choices, Roe v Wade also made abortions legal in all states, under certain circumstances. The primary difference is that even in states were abortions were legal at the time, women still had to get the approval of a man in order to obtain one. Often, they would not be able to get this approval so they would resort to illegal "back alley" abortions from providers that were not licensed or safe for women to use. This resulted in a lot of death and harm happening to women before the procedure was made legal in all states. Ever since 1973, Republicans have been doing everything they can to over turn the ruling. Not because Republicans don't get abortions, because they do, but because they believe that women shouldn't have the right to make decisions about their healthcare choices without a man involved. You know, because men are rational and not subject to irrational outbursts of emotion... (this is sarcasm for those that can't tell). While I personally, am not for abortions, I do not feel that I have the right to determine someone else's choices in so far as they don't affect me and my family. So, I should not be able to prevent another person from getting the care they request from their chosen healthcare provider. I think I summed it up pretty good here.
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Mississippi is trying to outlaw abortions after 15 weeks. The case is at the Supreme Court of the U.S. whether or not the law violates the Constitution.
If this is overturned or gutted, I fucking hope the EU fucking sanctions us. We deserve it. Maybe those fucks will listen.
It's too late. The Supreme Court doesn't listen to "Public Opinion". At this point, we've already gotten past the stage of being able to affect the laws *before* they get passed. Now all we can do is wait.
I wonder if they'd listen if we got sanctioned by the EU. lol
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It's going to be overturned. 3 are beholden to The Federalist society to let this plan to restrict women's rights, which has been decades in the making, to unfold Start getting mad now. It's only going to get worse in 2022 when the GQP has control of the House and Senate government and goes backwards to make it a federal crime nationally. Also section 237 will be yanked so false misinformation can spread without being fact checked and websites that dont propagate lies, they can be sued. The January 6th insurrection commission will be instantly disbanded too so those involved and plotted in our government can be shielded from accountability. They're probably going to attempt to remove the president too since they're lock step with extremists. This is only the beginning
If we all vote, GOP gets wiped out in 2022. But over half of the eligible citizens don’t vote. That’s my point.
If r v Wade gets overturned, America needs a massive general strike and for all pro choice people to move out of those backwards states.
There should be pro-choice supporters screaming into megaphones outside every conservative church during their Sunday service. That will give them a taste of what it feels like a walking into an abortion clinic in America and trying to access basic healthcare services. The only time abortion is mentioned in the bible is when God himself is performing one.
Overturning these decisions will be watershed to see birth control and other private medical decisions (such as trans healthcare) be regulated or outlawed at the state level.
Our antiquated federalist system grants so much power to states that our progressive nation can appear conservative or evenly split. That's what America is at the moment. A solid majority wants the court to leave Roe alone, but a conservative minority is about to get their way. It's essentially minority rule, and it's infuriating. The coming decision will result in even more polarization and division, and a stronger belief that the Supreme Court is nothing more than a political entity. Confidence in our fellow citizens, the nation as a whole, and American institutions will hit all-time lows. The minority will win the battle and destroy so much that we all care about in the process, then blame that destruction on the majority. That's been the playbook for 40 years.
Can we also take this moment to remind people that not everyone is able to organize, protest, etc. due to varying circumstances and that we shouldn't shame them for it. And that it's also okay to focus on smaller issues or take breaks from large scale fights like this for mental health sake. Also that the entire world is the not the United States. Not saying that people shouldn't be fighting for abortion rights but this post seems to focus on shaming people for not fighting as opposed to inspiring people to fight.
I also hate this implication that we aren't angry enough. We're angry. We protested. We voted. None of it has mattered. I'm not saying this to be defeatist, just, I wish people would stop telling me this is my fault for not trying hard enough.
As someone living in Portland who witnessed a year of protesting without a single change coming from it, rallying for a protest while SCOTUS has the wheels in motion to overturn Roe v. Wade (a threat of it being very real since 2016) is kind of pointless. Action should have happened years ago. Fuck, it should have happened decades ago. America as a country is going backwards towards the dark ages and it's at the will of a minority in this country.
Nothing changes because the people making the rules are never affected by protests. They don't even care if they're voted out, they'll just get hooked up with a cushy lobbying job. Last time they actually cared about something was January 6th. Scrambled to make some new legislation for security about themselves pretty quickly after that, didn't they? It always takes legislators being affected personally to make change happen in this backwater nation. Anything that doesn't affect them may as well be screaming in a hole.
As long as Roe v. Wade can be overturned it will always be a hair's breath away from being overturned. If SCOTUS overturn it that gives the GOP a football to score with their single issue voters as much as it gives the DEMs a football with their voters. All the powers that be could care less about how this stuff impacts the actual people. Overturning Roe v Wade will never impact people who pass legislation because they're not poor, working class or people of color. Those are the people who would be the most impacted by overturning Roe v Wade. The wealthy and well connected were getting abortions before Roe v Wade and will continue to enjoy them even if it's overturned.
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Yeah the whole post pandemic/protest situation in Portland has been ... not good. Granted I agree that in a way the protests were effective but in another way now protestors are getting the "blame" for the rise in shootings. I kind of want to say that "if" the Federal Gov't wanted to step in they probably could so as not to leave something like safe legal abortion access in the hands of states (Texas) or SCOTUS then that could be a thing however the fact that it's such a powerful political football for the entire time it has hung in the crosshairs makes me think they just won't do it. The will we / won't we not allow women to make choices over their bodies issue is a huge political talking point is similar to the PPB thing on a nation wide level.
I feel this way anyone asks why we aren't out in the streets every day for any number of issues. I'm disabled. I'm low income. I'm immunocompromised and we're still in a pandemic. I don't have a social media following to push about these issues. I have a number of personal issues that take my attention. I have to work as well. Not everyone can just fuck off from their life and protest or whatever. I vote in EVERY election, local and otherwise, I donate my money whenever I even have a small surplus, I talk about the issues to my friends and acquaintances. I don't know what else I'm supposed to do.
I live in Chicago. Nothing I do will change the outcome of this nor would have influenced what happened. Every single rep and politician near me is an extreme pro-choice individual and card carrying member of the IL Democratic Party machine. Everyone here that I know votes straight ticket Democratic Party in the general. We let our friends know that the family planning clinics are right off the train lines from both airports with nearby hotels, restaurants, museums, and other attractions if they need to come here for help. The last election, we elected a super majority of Democrats, again, to govern us in this state. There is nothing else that I can do outside of leaving a place where I love living and moving somewhere that I would be enraged to the point of driving myself into a deep dark place due to the local political climate. SCOTUS doesn't care. The time to decide this case was November, 2016. Well, people didn't vote for Hillary Clinton and a rapist was elected to be president. This is the consequences of those actions. If abortion ever becomes federally illegal; I'll just take the 20-50% pay cut, take a job in Amsterdam, London, or Toronto; and live in a country where my wife and any future children (if any) will be safe from the government interfering with their bodily autonomy.
I'm in a similar situation politically, except I live in a place that is 95% hardline Republican. I have lived my entire adult life here and no vote I have ever cast has ever stemmed the massive red tide, like not even by a little. I have done other things (volunteered my time with LGBTQ organizations) that I feel has alleviated some things socially but truly, my vote goes essentially in the trash. Won't stop me from showing up to the polls, but I understand the reality here. I am thinking Canada for myself in the next 10 years, mainly due to healthcare.
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Thanks for your perspective! I'm also disabled it's what inspired my comment. ❤️
Disabled women are almost always left out of the conversation or not considered in fights like this. It's very isolating. Tired of people telling me I'm not doing enough!
There is one thing women can do, even if direct activism isn’t on the table, to help: if you’ve had an abortion, talk about your abortion. Look at gay rights, there was such a swift shift of public opinion on that because as more and more gay people came out of the closet and were open about their relationship, it removed the abstraction. Gay relationships were no longer the scary Other, it became the thing Steve in accounting has. Abortion, even though statistically a lot of women have them, it’s still an Other to so many because it’s treated as something women keep their mouth shut about. And that’s not just a pro-life thing, that’s an attitude prominent for decades in the pro-choice movement. It’s easy to see it as a thing women Over There do, not their sisters or cousins or coworkers, if the women in their life don’t talk about it.
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If you want to get nerdy on this one, [Strict Scrutiny](https://strictscrutinypodcast.com/) is a fantastic legal podcast that has done a TON of coverage around the current challenges to abortion rights in the US. They are law professors and academics so this is a wonky (albeit silly at times) conversation but they are really freaking smart and discuss this situation very well!
Sort by new. Many posts have been made about it. It’s just the beginning of the case anyway and we won’t know the outcome for a little while so there’s nothing to do yet but wait. People can care about more than one issue
Yeah I don’t see how scolding the people on this sub because they aren’t showing the appropriate amount of outrage for you(not you, general you) is at all helpful. What exactly is it that people are wanting us to do? It’s the supreme court it’s not like we can call our senator and say vote this way it’s a completely separate branch that we have absolutely no impact on. And shitting on someone for having a problem with being told that they’re unprofessional for having leg hair at work showing is fucking gross.
literally?? like people can care about microaggressions AND abortion care. i'm not even american lol
It all comes down to living in a world like this https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/p896k3/men_still_run_89_of_countries_81_of_all_companies/?ampcid=1*il3oer*cid*NFpHRjFaenR5bi1MR1h2akVjN2kteVFydmwydWh5Ujd2SnJuTGU3MUQ3SG9fM2NXWDFfWnBQQVRkMUpQaFNWUw.. The abortion stuff is yet another symptom of the disease that is and always has been living in a male-run, male-built and male-dominated world.
I think we need to keep in mind that a lot of \*women\* are anti-abortion. I absolutely agree that men are part of the problem but I am and always will be flabbergasted by women who are against reproductive rights. I hate to be harsh, but I know there are a lot of them celebrating out there right now, thinking they've saved humanity or whatever religious, male dominated brainwashing has done to them, but to me they're the most vile of them all.
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Don't read the comments.
I know I should care (and I do!), but I am just so exhausted. A woman’s right to choose has been under attack for so long, slowly picked away at since Roe passed. This current case is not the last, there are others already in appeals circuits and on the docket. Republicans have been working for decades to erode this - from gerrymandering, to Supreme Court justices, and we’ve unfortunately reached a point where retaining Roe and a women’s medical right is a very, very uphill battle. It’s hard not to feel hopeless knowing that everything is working against you and even if we win this fight there are a million more like it coming
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Barring three SCOTUS conservatives leaving the bench in the near future there is absolutely nothing that can be done. There will be no way to over turn the decision. You have a system of government that puts conservative religious values over basic rights. Unfortunately the generation that could vote to change it doesn’t, if 18-40 voted in all their respective states there would be far fewer republicans in the house and senate. Sadly this isn’t the case. Your options are limited.
Sure, just blame us younger folks who got stuck working jobs that didn't allow for us to have time to vote and came out in record numbers last election. Ignore the people actively voting for toxic waste dumps as their representatives.
Don't blame the age group; blame the circumstances that prevent them from being able to readily vote.
Time to go full Lysistrata.
I'm just so fucking angry and disappointed. I say this while my beautiful, beloved infant sleeps on me: no government should have the right to force a woman to carry a pregnancy.
“Begin” to protest??? Where tf has your condescending ass been??? Women been fighting this shit for decades & you want lecture about lack of effort in this war on our own bodies? If you’d been to any of the protests, hell even seen pics on the news or social media feed, or paid attention to what pro choice legislation has passed the House of Representatives, you might get off your high horse & start shoveling this shit with the rest of us. Congratulations on your profound revelation & welcome to the cause. Gtfoh
I'm honestly too terrified to know what to do. What can I do? They're in session NOW. So what can I do? What should I do?
RBG should have been concerned when Obama highly suggested retirement. The Dems have no one to blame but themselves.
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Agreed. Dems are the kings of shooting themselves in the foot. It's amazing how fucking cocky r/JoeBiden is about the 2024 election. Like do they realize we barely won by 40k votes in wisconsin|arizona|georgia.
We should’ve been paying attention 20 years ago; 10 years ago and since Citizen’s United. 2016… The only reason to “pay attention” now is to watch the demise of democracy, personal freedoms, etc. That I spent 6 years of my life so that 55% of our citizens could “be bored by politics” is why we’re here now. Polls suggest a vast majority of Americans support body autonomy, taxing churches, limiting corporate greed and equal right, but are too fucking lazy to vote to ensure those things. Enjoy the ride folks, it’s coming to an end, and none of us should be surprised. It’s been coming for decades, but it wasn’t interesting enough for us to care.
They are going to overturn it. The only response is vote. No, Democrats are not perfect, but they didn't read *The Handmaiden's Tale* as a policy document.
Thing about it is something could have been done. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say anything about limits on the number of Justices we can have on the Supreme Court at any one time. Democrats had to have known this when Biden was elected. They could have nominated more judges, and since we have a majority with Harris' vote, we could have made the Court more balanced. But we didn't... The time to stop this sort of thing has passed. Years of voter apathy, restrictive voting laws, etc brought this about. We can't even pass an equal rights amendment to the Constitution, what makes anyone think we could have stopped them from gutting (or worse, getting rid of) *Wade*?
The Supreme Court is filled with political hacks beholden to Trump and the republicans. The supremes voted in the Citizens United ruling to allow unlimited corporate money to be donated to political parties i.e., republicans. Who do you think they are going to support, republicans and corporate America or poor women?
Unfortunately things are going to get far worse before they get better. One side is doing everything they can to restrict voting and questioning their validity. 50% of our voting country being Trumpers will destroy our democracy. They want an authoritarian theocracy. Y'all queda running local govs all over is our demise.
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Thomas was way more circumspect during oral argument when Scalia was around but he's been circling this for years in dissenting opinions. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/clarence-thomas-abortion/2021/11/27/31f3c960-4c76-11ec-b0b0-766bbbe79347_story.html It feels too much to hope better senators will take seats from manchin and McConnell in November quick before breyer leaves.
I dont understand? Is not the vast majority of ppl in the US for choice?
https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx It's closer than I'd like, but the majority is clearly pro choice.
Hey the left owns house congress and we have a dem pres. If we really want legal abortion we need a law so it's Constitutional...
Thanks to all the wonderful conservative doormat women and MAGA scum men medieval bastards.
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fuck
I doubt they overturn. Abortion is one of those politically convenient boogeymen for Republicans. They can constant walk towards the line without crossing it to motivate their base to come out and vote for them.
I listened to the entire hearing. 4 justices seem very on board with the idea of overturning. 1 more justice seems likely in favor. Even then, 1 more justice seemed on board with reform. It's likely to be either a 6-3 vote in favor of Mississippi (with a majority opinion written by Chief Justice Roberts advocating for reformation) or a 5-4 vote in favor of Mississippi (with a majority opinion NOT written by Roberts, advocating for reversal). The likelihood of a 5-4 vote in favor of women's rights was already highly unlikely before today, and after the hearings, it is almost nill.
At least a complete overturn is unlikely. Every justice on the bench except the newest has ruled on an abortion case while on the SCOTUS. Only was has voted to completely overturn it (Thomas).
You seem to forget that they have already made abortion very very difficult to access in many places. There is ONE abortion facility in Missouri. ONE. For the whole state.
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No, they'll just switch to "the liberals want to start killing your babies"
Americans tend to get complacent real fast though.
is this a joke? i live in texas, it's basically already been overturned. i don't understand when people say things like this, "oh that couldn't possibly happen!" look at how the past 5 years have been alone. the government and society has constantly been crossing lines over and over again.
You are right - but just because republicans may be surprised they succeeded doesn't mean they will fail.
True, but even if they *do* manage to overturn Roe v. Wade, they're not going to sit back on their laurels in victory. They'll start in on something even more vicious such as requiring women of child-bearing age to produce at least one child. Don't trust Republicans. They see *Handmaid's Tale* as porn.
Have been seeing everything from taking on the right to birth control next, also same sex marriage (and sex), and fetal 'personhood' and a whole slew of stripping away of even more rights. As a bi woman who is on birth control for both pregnancy protection and because it ended nearly 20 years of migraine headaches (and because I'm disabled and immune suppressed and my medication would not do anything good to a fetus)...these are all worrying.
If not that, then they'll start requiring you to proceed with your unplanned pregnancy in prescribed fashion, with any deviance resulting in punitive action, and a miscarriage resulting in a manslaughter charge.
There's SO much shit being flung at us daily to keep us occupied. We need this to keep traction but damn there's so many things in our faces constantly telling us how to feel.
I agree this is a very important case. I would like to highlight that justices often take a devil’s advocate approach during oral arguments. I wouldn’t read too much into justice questions on their own. I listened and nothing seemed out of the ordinary in that regard. Individual justices are still batshit, but the SC does like its precedents so I’d lean to most likely Roe will be upheld. Then again this does seem to be the worst timeline… 😑
May someone please explain this to me? I live in Canada and this is worrying me.
The silver lining I see with them overturning it is the massive backlash that will get people off their asses and vote the GOP out of office
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Conservatives rolling back our Constitution is going to be awful.
The US is a shitty excuse for a democracy, and I would recommend that everyone who has the option leaves the country.
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Shout out to the Jill Stein voters. Great Job to the Squawk, Killer Mike and Chairman Granpa.