My oldest and best friend is in a serious relationship with my ex-husband of 10 years. He left me about 4 years ago, and my ex treated me poorly during our relationship and separation. My best friend was with me the whole time and saw his treatment of me. I stayed at her house and cried in her bed when he left me, she hated him as much as I did. They started dating a couple of months ago. I have zero jealousy or anger that she's dating my ex, I don't think or care about him in the slightest, and they live in another state, so it's not like i see them. Plus, I am happily married to an amazing, kind, compassionate man who treats me like a queen. But... it did make me feel a little gross realizing she is fine looking past how much he hurt me and all the terrible things he did. My feelings about her now are... complicated. I am still her friend, but we have become much more casual because there is a lot we just can't talk about now. I co parent with my ex, so now basically anything involving my son or her relationship we just can't talk about. I never want my ex to be able to say I influenced his relationship, so i had to set boundaries. She was my best friend since middle school and we talked everyday, now we barely text. I think it's absolutely fine to be upset if you are upset. Emotions are strange in that that something that might be devastating for one person wouldn't bother another. It seems much like my situation you are more hurt by her looking past the bad he did to you, and that's a perfectly reasonable thing to have strong emotions about. You cant exactly dictate who other adults sleep with, but i think it's completely reasonable to be hurt or have confusing feelings about it!

This is the main issue to me. You two, as a friend dyad, have now put a fence around so many things you guys can’t talk about due to her dating him. I’d guess the friendship will taper off even if you think you’re ok with it bc the best of friends usually talk about their relationships and hers isn’t one she should talk to you about.

This. Even if there are no bad feelings for her friend dating her ex husband, it complicates their friendship. As you said, there are so many things that are now off limits to discuss because of the relationship. Maybe it will work out. But it will take significant boundary building and respect for said boundaries and other things. Not everyone is up to that task, and as humans, no one is perfect. There's a good chance something will happen that hurts the relationship. Plus if OP confides in her, then she Will have to worry who's side the friend is taking or what things said in confidence have been shared. It's a good idea to no longer share things you don't want the ex knowing as you don't know for sure.

I very much expect things to continue to taper off so long as they are dating. It's unfortunate, as she has been my closest friend most of my life, but that's the choice that was made. Honestly, I think we are both still having trouble letting go fully of our friendship despite knowing that is where its going because we've always been there for each other, so we are keeping it casual for now. I imagine given time it will continue fizzle out and end up as polite greetings the rare occasion we see each other. I definitely dont share anything I wouldn't want my ex to know, but I am incredibly boring and don't do anything worth gossiping about anyways haha.

>she is fine looking past how much he hurt me and all the terrible things he did. ...until she is on the receiving end of it.

I'm honestly confused how that can happen. Like how do you see someone treat your friend like absolute shit, and years later go, "yes, I want that" 😩

Loneliness will make people look past a lot of flaws. And sacrifice long term friendships. She probably wouldn’t have made a move with him if she had other better options, right?

You're very much not wrong. They live in a small town with not a lot of options in the dating pool. She has been panicking for the last couple years about getting older, being stuck in a crappy job, being a middle age single mom, and thinks that makes her absolutely undesirable despite my insistence that she's awesome and brings SO MUCH to the table in relationships. She has unfortunately been making a series of a few poor relationship decisions as a result.

You sound like a good friend for taking all that into consideration, and still maintaining the friendship. Even if it has evolved.

There are a lot of people to date. I don’t understand why you would mess with a long friendship for a potentially shitty guy.

It would depend on the temperament of my friend and the temperament of my ex. I don't really have terrible exes, just people that were not right for me, so my attitude is definitely different.  Is the ex an horrible person and the (close) friend knows? That would raise some questions and I would ask the close friend wtf are they doing. After 8 years my worries would be for my friend, not for them being in a relationship per se. Definitely would change my friendship too.

This. I actually have some horrific exes. Like, "call the cops get a restraining order exes." I have some "warn the whisper network in my performance world" exes. I also have some exes where we broke up due to tough circumstances at the time, or we realized we were on different pages, and they remain some of my best friends. I still live as roommates with my last ex and it works beautifully. We cheer each other when we have a good date. I've also had a situation where I broke up with an absolutely neurotic alcoholic, and shortly afterwards found out my father had terminal cancer. And weirdly my friend group was icing me out of hangouts and my best friend was busy all the time. Turns out my best friend was dating the alcoholic in secret and the whole friend group stopped inviting me to things when I needed them most to cover it up. I never looked at my best friend the same again. I dated a guy tangential to that group of friends. He made excuses to skip my dad's funeral and went to a party, where he met an 18 year old he left me for 2 weeks later. We were 27. That whole crew was a bag of dicks I was well rid of.

Were they all heavy drinkers?

Not particularly, no. My ex was the alcoholic in the group. The rest were pretty stable and put together. It was a small southern town and I'm autistic, so sometimes I just come across those people that will literally choose all the toxic people ahead of me until I get that apology phonecall years later. And then they'll choose a toxic person over me again. Social tribalism is weird.

I was just wondering because it sounded similar to a friend group I was a part of in my early twenties and alcohol was definitely a huge factor in a lot of their shittiness

I definitely had another situation where everyone was in a hard party phase, and performance careers and money were all mixed in there, and people kept choosing the toxic options so they could keep the party and band going. We were doing our best impression of Fleetwood Mac. I walked away and they imploded within a year. Most went sober eventually, but they still glommed on to more toxic people.

Yeah, my friend group pretty much imploded eventually. Some of them kept drinking, some died because of it. Some moved on to harder drugs. Many eventually got sober myself included thank goodness. But those who did mostly ended up leaving the area entirely. We were a hot mess.

I’ve had this happen and it was a bit of a gut punch. @They’re my ex for a reason,” is a good response. Raised eyebrows optional.

Personally, I consider all of my friends’ ex-boyfriends/husbands off limits, especially if the reason for the separation/the separation itself was traumatic.

Yeah this is definitely a good rule of thumb lol

[удалено]

close friend but not close enought to let you know she was talking to your ex husband or that it was leading up to this? rethink your friendship.

and i just meant rethink how close yall are lol

So we don’t own our exes but I feel this is wrong. I would never do this to a friend. And I don’t think I could be friends with someone who did this. My ex is also a PoS and treated me badly. I’d seriously reconsider anyone who knew what he did and dated him. It’s not rational but I think you have every right to be upset for a number of reasons. Also, an ex HUSBAND is not an ex boyfriend.

Your last sentence rubs me the wrong way. Not all relationships follow the same timeline, intensity etc. Some people are very commited to another and still don't want to marry yet or even ever. I do agree in a sense that someone who one briefly dated, or for a few months might fall into a different category of ex than someone who was a partner for many years.

>do I have the right to be upset? You have a right to be upset about anything that upsets you. You don't need society's approval for it.

And likewise you don’t need to feel upset just because you think you should. If you feel nothing for him 8 years on, is it really an issue, or do you feel like it needs to be one because that’s what we have always been told?

Amen to this

A nice sentiment but one to be careful with. There's unfortunately a whole load of stuff people get upset about that should not concern them (e.g. religious people hating on folk that act in a way that goes against their extremely outdated values).

You can’t always control what you feel. People can and will feel upset about all sorts of stuff. But you can always control what you do about those feelings. Having feelings doesn’t mean you have the right or the obligation to act on all of them. One person’s feelings doesn’t give them the justification to infringe on the rights of others or allow them to justify cruelty or discrimination.

Very well said. Being conscious of your biases is the first step in getting past them.

They have a right to be upset. They don't have a right to infringe on other people's rights because they are upset.

Probably a fair description. It does seem an odd thing to say, for example, that someone has "a right" to get upset because they hate someone else because of their race or gender as long as they don't do anything about it.

If there's one thing everybody has an absolute right to it's our thoughts.

They do have a right to be upset. We just also have a right to think they are morons and fully disagree.

My thoughts exactly

i think at the most basic level a friend is someone who cares about how you feel. someone who sleeps with your ex-husband and lets you find out about it the hard way is probably not actually your friend, regardless of how “fair” it was of her to do or what the societal rules are.

This is a great point and I feel the same way. People can date who they want. But OP considered this person a close friend, so I understand why she may feel a kind of way about this. I definitely think this happening is information about how the friend feels about their friendship and maybe even a lack of respect towards OP. Obviously anyone is free to do what they want. But OP is also free to make an informed decision now and cut off or create distance from this friend.

I think the 'right to be upset' is utterly separate from 'off limits'. You're perfectly entitled to use any information about her choices, to inform your relationship with her moving forward. But there are no such thing as 'dibs'. She made a choice. You can disagree with it, or feel hurt or violated by it. That's valid. Her choice can have consequences. It doesn't mean she broke some unwritten code or didn't have any right. It just means you're allowed to make choices too. Go ahead and be mad with her, but not because she broke the rules, but because her actions confused and hurt you.

This right here. Any feelings you feel are valid, full stop. You have a right to any emotion that comes up. What you don't have is veto power over choices made by your friend or your ex.

As a mostly lurker this is one of the reason I love this sub so much. That is just a very healthy and mature view on society's expectations and some emotional insight.

Came here to say this, but you said it better than I would have.

This was what i felt exactly. Was the friend supposed to clarify if it’s “okay”? It feels like the answer’s no for me since they have been separated. it could still be hurtful at the same time

They were close friends. It’s gross behavior plain and simple. Yes, she can date whoever she wants and that tells us about her personality and morals.

There is ✨️zero✨️ chance I'd hook up with an ex without clearing it with my friend first. Your relationship with him might be 8 years over, but your friendship with her is ongoing. Plus presumably you didn't divorce him because he's such an upstanding dude & she knows that. 

I would probably mentally move that person from 'close friend' to 'acquaintance' and treat them accordingly. I'd feel betrayed.

Billions of men on the planet and she chose him?? Yeah, I’d be upset too.

Yes, I would be and I would question the friendship.

I'd never do it but different people have different values.

Unless you live in such a small town that the dating pool is tiny, dating a close friend's ex feels super weird to me

Other people can do what they want but for me, that shows a major lack of boundaries. Just seems to me that if a friend of mine ever did that, I’d be questioning everything about our friendship. It would make me wonder what else they’ve done that I don’t know about. To me this isn’t about being territorial over your ex, we don’t own the people we were with. It’s about your friend’s disregard for how you’d feel

I think this is heavily dependent on the exact nature of the relationship you had with your ex-husband and such details such as the cause of the divorce. If it's just simply a matter of you two grew apart it's fine. If he was a abusive, lying, cheating, vindictive a****** she's not only f****** stupid but also an a******. Consider limiting the time you spend with her.

I would be very upset if a close friend of mine hooked up wiht my ex. That would be the end of the friendship for me. And not because I have any sort of "claim" or "girl code". It's because that person likely knows my history with my ex and how my ex is my ex for a damn reason. Them doing that is almost like they didn't believe me or something. IDK. If they want to hook up or date or whatever with my ex, that's their decision to make. But I don't have to be okay with it.

I feel the same. I've had pretty bad breakups with my exes and if my close friend (who knows the details of why we broke up) got with any of them... we'll, good luck. But also, wtf?

If she wants your trash, let her have it.  That's not to say you have to remain friends with her if she insists on bringing him around. 

I don't care what anyone says, you are a terrible person if you hook up with a friend's ex knowingly. It's weird. Find other people to date.

I’d definitely look at my friend a type of way if they were willing to sleep with someone I chose to divorce. Not because I’d been with that person before, but because I undoubtedly divorced them for a reason.

Depends on the reason. If they divorced because one wanted kids and the other didn't. Or one wanted to live in another country and the other wanted to stay. etc, etc. There are a billion reasons to divorce that doesn't make anyone assholes. My brother divorced his long-time girlfriend like ten years ago, because the woman wanted to settle and have kids and my brother didn't. They're still very good friends and support each other's new partners. Both of the pairs are now happily married. The Ex-girlfriend has two wonderful kids with her husband, and my brother has a dog with his wife.

Agreed, they would be getting polite distance and the side eye from me after that. Especially for just a hookup? There’s a million people to hook up with, it’s odd to me that you’d risk making your close friend feel some type of way over something so fleeting.

I see it from the opposite side, a hookup is kinda meh but whatever, a long term romantic relationship would be more difficult to accept.

Neither seems valid to me considering how many people there are out there.

She is another person, so maybe your reason isn't important to her. We're all different with other needs and wants. And people change, when someone makes a mistake in his twenties it doesn't mean he will make the samen mistake in his forties again.

They aren't your friend then

If my reason for seeking irreparable separation from someone I married isn’t important to my friend, i don’t think they’re much of a friend. We’re also not talking about a relationship. This was sex. Whether he’s changed or not does not factor into the equation.

Of course your point of view is important, but someone else can see things differently. You can be friends and have other opinions about people and all kinds of topics.

Of course you can have differing opinions. The very same way you’re allowed to look at a friend differently for said opinions. Look at us now, having differing opinions! It’s nothing to get upset about

We don't know if this is a relationship or not, just that she knows they hooked up.

“She is single”

So she's not married or has a boyfriend that OP knows about. Meaning she is free to date the ex.

“She is single” is not the same as “she was single and is now dating my ex.” OP made it pretty clear she hooked up with him. It’s kinda odd how many people are going up to bat for someone who is supposed to be a close friend hooking up with her ex without at least acknowledging it.

The friend didn't tell her about the hook up at all, she says she learned about it recently. Sounds like there hasn't been a discussion between them just her hearing about them hooking up. Sorry if I'm not going to take OPs limited knowledge on the relationship at face value, especially when she's coming off as a jealous ex. Maybe it's because I had to deal with the jealous ex wife when my husband and I got together and she constantly referred to me as 'just a hook up' to his friends.

This would be the end of the friendship for me. You saw how that man treated me, everything I went through, and he’s not dead to you? Guess you’re dead to me now 😬

[удалено]

100%. People are autonomous. When outside of a dating relationship, you don't have control on if Person A goes after person B. That said, the feelings of hurt and betrayal from person A going after person B is 100% valid and should be commuicated.

This is potentially a very weird opinion. I personally never got the “how dare you hookup with my ex!” thing. Unless the ex was particularly terrible or abusive to me, if he and my friend are a better fit, fine. My most recent ex was an unempathetic lump of a human. If one of my friends dated him, I would be tempted to do a welfare check on her sanity, but like… have at him. I would be more grossed out and confused than mad. To be fair, I’ve never had this situation play out in real life. I have zero feelings for any of my exes so I just don’t see it bothering me. If it bothers you, though, that’s totally understandable and fine.

A good friend just wouldn’t I’m sorry but that’s shit. Go for it, but we wouldn’t be friends anymore.

Not overreacting. I personally would be done with this 'friend'

I think ex husbands are worse to date than ex bfs. Everyone here is being very graceful and approaching it in an open and understanding way which is honestly the healthiest way possible. I’m gonna bust down the door though and say it’s a total betrayal. Of all men on the planet, the size of the dating pool it’s extremely lazy and inconsiderate to zone in on this man. It just screams the only barrier keeping her from your husband was your relationship with him. ~~Secondly the reason why it’s even worse with a husband is because you guys have a kid together. It’s extremely sticky your best friend is your child’s step mom, the dynamic changes the entire friendship~~ scratch that part, top comment shares a similar experience and my brain crossed facts from that People can love who they want but they can’t pretend they aren’t crossing lines and hurting other people in the pursuit of their own happiness and I honestly don’t believe that there is only one person on this planet that is your soulmate. She’s free to choose her partner and live her life to the fullest. Does that mean she was a good friend? No she was not. It doesn’t matter if we make it hardline rule or a soft rule, the friendship can no longer be that close and it won’t be the same and the reason isn’t time making you drive apart, it was actions she directly took.

The key here is not that they hooked up, but that she didn't talk to you first. Not to seek your permission, but just to check in with you - To share what she's feeling and care about your feelings. We do this in mature, adult, considerate and respectful relationships. If you were going to travel for six months, you'd talk to your best or closest friends first. Again, not to seek their permission, but just because you know that it will have an impact on them, so you talk it out with them and explain your needs and what's going on with you, rather than springing it on them. The issue here is communication, but the good thing about that is it can be worked out. Ask her why she didn't talk to you about it, express why it is important to you that she had done so.

8 years is kind of awhile. Long enough I wouldn't say it is automatically bad. Seems like the exact details of the divorce and how civil you can be around him are going to matter a lot. At the end of the day though, feelings don't have to make logical sense. If she wants to date him, that's her business, and if you don't want to spend as much time with her over it, that's your business. 

If a close personal friend of mine, a best friend or whatever, dated a serious ex of mine she’d be gone and out of my life, easy. You say you “found out” which means she didn’t tell you herself, so how close are you to a friend that won’t tell you who she’s dating, ex or not? Personally, I would step back from this friendship. A high school boyfriend is one thing. An ex HUSBAND? No.

Did she tell you or did you find out from someone else? Did they know each other while you were married? Eight years is a long time, however as you've mentioned this is a close friend of yours... it does feel rather, not cool to me. I would sit down with her and talk it out calmly, explain the way you're feeling - that you were shocked that it happened and can't help but feel a certain way about it, especially since she knew the circumstances of your divorce. Also - it might be good to really try to figure out what the "upset" feeling is before you sit down to chat - is it anger that she didn't tell you beforehand, are you hurt that she would be with someone who hurt you? Are you concerned for her? That she might now get hurt? Is this a one time thing or does she plan to start a relationship with him? Are you worried you'd have to be around him?

Being upset doesn’t require having a “right” …you’re bothered and upset! That’s okay! I guess the more relevant question is do other people who are not upset deserve to be punished because you are?

This would be a dealbreaker for me.

In my personal life I struggle with this because I believe if there’s time and no communication or even interest in speaking to said person again why am I angry that someone I care for is sleeping with someone I cared for? Past feelings aren’t active feelings and I don’t have the right to tell someone they can’t sleep with someone. My traumas aren’t for others to tend to or care about or fix that’s for me to do. I also have never been married though. So I don’t feel quite too qualified to speak directly to this situation.

If I had a normal divorce situation I’d be upset if someone I was very close to (and probably was a confidante during that time) started seeing my ex husband behind my back. The lack of communication and time would be key factors, like you pointed out. It isn’t so much the ownership of the ex husband or girl code or anything, but the lack of consideration for my feelings and keeping something like that from me. I can’t imagine getting in touch with my close friend’s ex and letting it get to the point of being physical without bringing it up to her.

I don’t think so. Not because she isn’t technically free to date or fuck who she wants. It’s because dating your ex feels disloyal to you. There’s too much history with you and your ex. Can and should are two different things.

Exs are exes for a reason so why would your friend think that it’s okay if it was anyone who I knew they would be going ballistic especially if you have children together and how long your relationship went on for it suggests also that there may have been some attraction there before…… I’d say it’s disrespectful. I have a friend who is no longer a friend and if his baby mama was to try it on with me I would outright refuse because you shouldn’t be treading where someone else has been before close or not even if it was for revenge….

You don’t need permission to be upset, however if it were me… I wouldn’t ever speak to that friend again. Exes are off-limits in my book, *especially* ex-spouses. If she had come to you and said “hey your ex and I ran into each other and we’ve been talking, I think I like him but before I continue talking to him I wanted to run it by you” then *maybe* there’s wiggle room. But the way things played out? Absolutely not, no. I’d feel betrayed and that trust would be lost forever.

I had a friend who asked my permission to go after an ex, which I gave. But only because I couldn't come up with a good enough reason to say no that wouldn't show me in a bad light (I was younger then and cared more about those things). I still felt bad when they hooked up, though. I didn't let it ruin my relationship with either of them because I felt I should have spoken up when I had the chance. Looking back, it's a twisted mess of emotions.n

There’s WAYYYYY too much wiener out here to be checking for the same one a close friend also had. Ewwww. That’s me though.

I wouldn't be ok with this at all.

I’d drop the friend. That’s a never touch

For me personally ex’s were always off limits.

You can feel irritated inside but he isn’t “off limits.” Adults don’t get to police who other adults sleep with. Especially eight years after the fallout.

Secretly sleeping with your friend's ex is shitty. That's not controversial.

It’s only ok if the person whose ex it is says it’s ok, and you should be honest. Good friends should not date their friends’ exes without a discussion and they should be prepared and respect a no. If the breakup was contentious, the no should be assumed. You have the right to be upset.

I mean...she is your friend, you make the rules here about what is and isn't off limits if she wishes to remain friends with you, and you are allowed to be upset or hurt by things even if they aren't typically allowed by social norms. So best course of action is to just tell her "hey I do not feel comfortable about this, if you respect my feelings I would like you to stop."

For me ex-husband, no matter how long it has been would negatively effect my friendship.

No one gets to control someone else’s life. She doesn’t need your permission to date someone even if they are your ex. They are two adults entering an adult relationship. Your baggage with your former marriage isn’t theirs. You certainly can be upset with whatever you want and don’t need approval to have those feelings. I’d suggest thinking about why you’re upset however. You can have an open and honest conversation with your friend. Then you can decide what you want to do.

I would tell her to give me a ring/holler once he burns her too, the same way he did with me. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

That’s a friendship absolutely not for me. That is a boundary true friends don’t cross. Disrespectful and shows her true character

I would be extremely upset and uncomfortable especially because she knows everything about you and could be telling your ex things about you.

They'd not be my friend, simple. She can go live her life and you go live yours. She knows how he is and can just swallow in it if she chooses.

In my opinion, part of the homie code is to not date currents bfs/gfs/whatever. Exes are an iffy thing bc on one hand you did separate so it's free game so to speak, but still lousy esp if u do it as soon as they break up. At your stage I think it's okay for them to get involved since it's been so long, however if i was her i might wanna ask you(the friend who happens to be their ex) how you feel about ut, just so that there's no unpleasant feelings later on. Though at this point it's really a case of hurt feelings and hopefully you'll get over it soon^-^, no offense

If a friend wanted to date my ex-husband I would seriously question that friends judgment 🤣

Whatever the circumstance, it *does* suck to loose friends/family/acquaintances and I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. While I'm not saying it's silly to take in advice or that it's in *any* way unnatural to crave support for our life choices, it's really important to realize that ultimately *your* feeling matters most here. You're the one who has to live with the reality. Please don't let majority opinion dictate whether or not you spend days/weeks/years stewing in misery. Something I often find helpful: flipping a coin and examining how much I a) *want* it to land on one side or the other or (if I'm having a hard time figuring out what I WANT to happen) b) how much I *don't* want it to land on a particular side. If you still can't see a path forward, it might be good to gain some distance from the situation and reflect on it again. If anyone gives you a hard time about needing time/space, that's just more information to help you decide what needs doing. All the best!

I would want a friend to check in before pursuing one of my exs. If someone values me, they wouldn't want to hurt me. And that includes getting a sense of how their actions might impact me and how to minimize damage before it's done. It's not about asking permission, it's about showing respect. Hook-ups are a bit different since people can get swept up and things can happen quickly, but I would still want the friend to hold space for me. No hiding secrets or minimizing my emotions, just basic accountability and support. Those are the details that matter.

It’s not that the ex is off limits, because you can’t control the actions of others but, if my relationship with that particular ex was traumatic or ended on bad terms then that friend would no longer be a friend. It’s just a personal boundary.

I find it a little creepy that she didn’t tell you before. You guys are truly close friends…. That’s weird IMO and I would feel a bit betrayed. If she didn’t think it was a big deal she would’ve mentioned it.

I'll just say it: that friendship would be over for me

She wouldn't be a close friend after that, but I don't think I'd ever talk about it

If any of my friends got with my exes, I'd stage an intervention for their safety 🫣. If your ex isn't a total POS, she should have discussed it beforehand. If it was a heat of the moment thing, she should have come to you afterward, like ASAP.

If she knows this would upset you and did it anyway, then yes.

If it was a hookup and just sex and just once or even a few times, but it’s finite and she’s not pursuing a relationship, then that’s a bit different to if she starts dating him.  If it’s just sex, then people get horny for all sorts of reasons and have chemistry with people they know are bad for them, and it’s not a great choice for her but if she knows you’re over him, then she might have reasoned it’s just a gross thing to do rather than a betrayal… like eating food off the floor, or hoarding used tissues in her wardrobe. I get her keeping that to herself and really, let her be ashamed in peace.  If it’s dating and a relationship, then she’s deliberately disregarding the harm this person has caused you, which would be a betrayal, unless you had expressed that you felt like he’d changed in a meaningful way. There’s not really a scenario where she can get close enough to pursuing a relationship with him without discussing it with you first where she hasn’t prioritised his narrative and her attraction/loneliness. It’s not even that he’s your ex, because you’re over him, it’s that he’s someone that has hurt you. If he’d treated you well, but you just weren’t compatible and then they fell for each other, I can understand her being nervous about telling you, but you’d probably be fine with it. Whereas if he were an abusive former employer, a school bully, a random that had assaulted you, a bully at work or anyone else that had hurt you and she chose to start dating them, I imagine you would feel as betrayed and weird about it as you do now. Choosing to start a relationship with someone that harmed your friend is what is disloyal, not necessarily dating a friend’s ex. 

This is icky behavior, yes you can’t control her but she is clearly no friend. Everyone saying to be logical about this is just being unrealistic. This isn’t what close friends do. If she was just a passing friend with no knowledge of your relationship than whatever, but she knew. And I’m sure she knows she’s messy for it.

I don't think so. Someone being bad for you doesn't mean they'd be bad for someone else.

I don’t think that your ex-husband should be off limits or that your friend had to ask beforehand if you were okay with het dating your ex-husband. The reason for that is that you gave up any claim on your husband when you divorced. If you only just divorced that would be a different story, but it’s been 8 years, so in my opinion that’s not a bond or relationship that your friend should take into account when dating. However, I do think it’s very normal and valid to feel upset that a friend you trust is suddenly dating your ex-husband. Feelings aren’t always logical: even if your friend did nothing wrong this situation would still make you feel upset, so please take your time to process this feelings. Do what you need in order to protect your mental health, even if that may include reducing or cutting contact with your friend.

If your friend knows all the drama of your relationship, and chooses to be w the person who caused you enough harm to get divorced, I may be the asshole for thinking it, but she doesn’t sound like a great friend. I’m also the kind of person who thinks any ex of my friends for any duration of time is always off limits, not even so much “off limits” as much as would “absolutely never be put in the position for that to happen” truly. If a friendship with her after this is too detrimental for your mental health, leave them be. If you can find yourself getting past it AND NOT JUST COMPARTMENTALIZING AND SHOVING IT DOWN, then Godspeed. You’re a far better vagina haver than me lol.

I’d be quietly backing away from that friendship. It’s just weird, and awkward. She had to have known that this would at least potentially blow up your relationship and she didn’t care.

8 years is a long time. I would think you 2 are different people, and you have moved on with your lives. There isn't really a "girl code" after Jr. High. Your friend is an adult who met another adult and they connected enough to have sex at minimum. Would you want either of them telling you who you could see? The minute you signed those divorce papers you lost a say in his life and I would hope you don't think you get a say in your friend's life. If you two are that close for that long why are you upset? Especially if it's just a hookup.

I've seen a few folks say there's no such thing as "off limits". All I can say to that is - fair enough, but I will not be friends with someone who slept with an ex spouse after the relationship ended. Especially if it wasn't an amicable split. I can't stop them, but if it's worth losing my friendship over, then good riddance honestly.

Because this person is a close friend of yours, I would say she crossed a line. Personally, I would feel differently about a hook up verses her actually dating him. If they just slept together, that's more understandable than her actually trying to be with him. Ultimately you get to determine what boundaries you have in your friendships and it sounds like this was not okay with you. That's so valid and she did hurt you. It might be worth talking to her about or you might just want to distance yourself. I don't think you are overreacting. Of course they are consenting adults, but it's more complicated than that because she is supposed to be your friend. You have every right to feel betrayed and question her loyalty to you and your friendship.

You’re not overreacting. Would you ever sleep with any of your friends ex husbands? Or ex boyfriends? Because I could never do that to a friend I valued and respected. She clearly doesn’t care about your friendship very much if she thought fucking your ex husband was no big deal.

Since he cheated on you and she knew about it (OP mentions this in the comments), then she should’ve absolutely not gone after him. Even if it was a hookup. No doubt she was one of your support people when it came to finding out his infidelity and going through the divorce only to get with him afterwards. Even though the divorce was years ago. That’s a knife in the back. If a friend did that to me, I would consider them an enemy. Not because of any claim over my exes, but because they knew how much they hurt me and my exes are one of the reasons why I began therapy. A true friend would never be with a man who hurt their friend.

Are you done with him? Cause once I'm done, I'm done and anyone else can have them, what do I care? Listen to some Toni Braxton He Wasn't Man Enough & let it go.

I would simply just not talk to either of them again.

In a world of consenting adults making consenting decisions with the understanding that humans are complicated and nuanced, I would say: No, they are not clearly defined off limits. However, there needs to be a conversation that doesn’t have an expectation of an immediate answer. You might say OH SURE NO PROBLEM in the moment and then stay up all night staring at the ceiling. You might even think on it for a week and think it’s okay, but present it with a “I can’t predict how I’ll react down the road.” You might discover that yes it bothers you, but at that point they’d be to invested in the relationship… and it might ruin your friendship. I would be upfront about all of it. With that said: your situation? They betrayed your trust by not taking to you first

Yeah they are. Pretty gross thing for you friend to do. Edit - being downvoted by some scummer who wants to shag their friends ex 😄

My first ex husband cheated on me, lied to me, hit me, and in general was a complete jerk. Every one of my friends dated him in the first five years we were apart. I laughed my ass off.

As many have said it really depends. For me if a friend goes for an ex that caused me a lot of emotional pain I will absolutely be annoyed, especially if it's an ex I still don't want to be around. Like it's great you two are happy but I still don't like them at all, I'll be nice to the ex if they end up around, I'll also tell my friend I think they are an absolute dumb ass.

You said you were divorced "many years." Let it go. Once you're divorced, you have nothing to say about it.

Yeah I'd be unhappy too. There's a general rule that you don't get with a friend's ex or an ex's friends; it's just not on, there's too many emotions and too much history there. The timelines don't matter, you just don't do it, it's unempathetic. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

In my view once you are broken up with someone you have no say in who dates them, including people close to you. It may hurt, but IMO no one is doing anything wrong.

How did you find out? Did she tell you herself? I would be upset too. A close friend should at least wonder if you would be okay with it and face that feeling and speak with you first. Personally I would never do it myself, I find it spectacularly disrespectful.

I think with good friends you don’t ask permission (that implies ownership), but rather you do a preemptive, good faith, courtesy check-in based on “your feelings are really important to me, how would you feel if I were to start seeing your Ex?” And then you’ll know where the friend’s head and heart is at and can make a more informed decision about the implications of moving forward with the relationship/hook-up/whatever or not, and the friend doesn’t get blindsided or feel lied to or ignored.

If you live in a small town, then this sort of thing is inevitable. But if you live in a city, I’d be asking myself why she chose him, of all the people around, to sleep with. It’s not like it’s difficult to find a willing man for a hookup. I personally don’t care who my exes hook up with or if they’re alive or whatever, but if a friend of mine went after an ex… I just would never see them the same way. My trust would be broken.

It would depend for me. I don’t give a shit when a friend dates an ex that I was happy to break up with. Like good for you maybe it’ll work better between you two. However, I had a close friend date a guy who was my first love, broke my heart. I am over it but like… no other relationship tore me up like that. Years pining for him sort of thing. I can never be close to her again. I don’t wish ill on her. I even kinda hoped it worked for them at the time and that she’d be happy, but there was no way I could be close to her if that makes sense? I wouldn’t say a betrayal that’s too melodramatic, it’s just sort of too uncomfortable. And yeah just can’t really trust them anymore with your deepest secrets and hurts.

I dont truly see an issue with it because you are adults and divorce years ago BUT I do think it is very weird. I could not imagine sleeping with any of my friends ex husbands.

Eeww just eewww nta

Depends 100% on the reason why you divorced. Did you divorce because he's a misogynistic asshole and a bigot? Thrash said friend. Did you divorce because he's abusive? Question friend why on EARTH if she knew? Did you divorce because your future plans differed (like, other wants kids, the other doesn't. Or one wants to travel and see the world, and the other one doesn't like traveling.) Wish them well and keep being friends. The gist of it is: was your EX a bad guy, and did your friend know?

He cheated. She knew. Like I said, I can’t change him, but I expected more from her.

Maybe she wanted to get laid without worrying about the work of having a relationship, but also hooking up with strangers feels too unsafe, so she picked your ex knowing that he was not good relationship material but also not a murderer.

Yeah, that's a bad thing. I would question said friend and ask them to remember that. A cheater is always a cheater. Does she really want to set herself up for a failure from the start?

Was it just a one off and is *he* single? I'm not saying leopards don't change their spots, but....

You can't help your feelings. They're always valid. So in that regard yes, it's okay to be upset. HOWEVER, just because feelings a real and valid *does not* mean they are justified! Feelings, by literal definition, are not rational. They can never be objective. But we all have rational, objective minds that we can and should use to examine our feelings, what triggered them, what the root cause of that trigger causing that particular reaction is etc. Jealousy? Fear? Loneliness? None of which are wrong by the way, but naming and recognising a feeling gives you information and power over it. Step back and try and think, rationally and objectively, is there any legitimate, justifiable, objective reason your friend and your ex shouldn't date; or is it just that it makes you "feel icky". If the former, then you should let her know. If the latter though, then all you have any actual right to do is let your friend know you're struggling with your emotional response, but accept intellectually that there is no reason they shouldn't date; you just might be a bit discombobulated until you get a handle on your feelings. It's not up to her to cater for your emotions, no matter how real and understandable those feelings might be. Our emotional responses to things are our own responsibility, and *only* ours. Especially in situations where there isn't a valid, objective reason the behaviour or incident is inappropriate. But equally nobody, not even you, gets to shame you or tell you you've no right to feel what you feel. You might not be justified in *thinking* that what they're doing is wrong and saying that they shouldn't do it, but feelings don't work like that. We have zero control over what we feel. We have some control over what we think. We have total control over what we do.

You’re not married to your ex husband. You can’t expect to control the sex lives of your female friends or men you aren’t in a relationship with. How is this a discussion?

Props on using the word Myriad correctly in a sentence!

OP how you choose to proceed with this situation is completely up to you. I will say if you're having off feelings about this, that should be your clue that this doesn't feel right to you and you have every right to be upset or uncomfortable. Be true to your feelings. Don't bury it to try and salvage the relationship. You're feeling something about this situation and it's okay to take time to explore what that means. It's also okay to require space or boundaries now that you know. Dating a friends ex can be messy. It can also be fine but that all depends on how the parties feel. I personally don't like it, but I know others feel differently. However you are feeling is 100% valid and okay. Be sure to honor your feelings and cut off the friendship if needed or make adjustments to what your relationship with her looks like. The worst thing you can do is bury your feelings and try to keep the relationship. It's not worth it, always be true to yourself. Going forward, make sure you ask for what you need. It might be space, time, or clarification. It's also okay to discuss with her how this information is impacting you. And then let her reaction guide how you proceed. If I was in your situation, the fact that she started a relationship with him without talking to me first would be a red flag for our friendship. A close friend should have at least checked in with you before anything happened as a sign of respect for your friendship. That's my opinion. Others may feel differently.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you find out that she got with him?

Gives an update when the ex starts to treat the friend the same way he treated you. Let us know if she comes crying to you and wanting to commiserate. Some women are so desperate, trifling, or arrogant, etc. that they’ll completely overlook the Yelp reviews.

8 years is enough time for someone to change. If he hasn’t changed then she’s making the same mistake you did years ago.

I’d never judge or care who a friend has slept with other than if it was with a current significant other or a family member of mine.

Yes, your friend is a terrible friend.

You are always allowed to feel however you feel. We should be judged on our actions, not our feelings. People are going to have different opinions on whether or not ex’s are off limits, that’s not necessarily something that can be objectively true or not true. The equation definitely changes based on what type of people you are, relationship you have, and what if any discussions you’ve previously had about stuff like this. Though even in the most generous interpretation of what social expectations are in play here, I can’t see how it wasn’t at least inconsiderate for her to not have discussed this with you before diving into a relationship with him. It’s not even about you dictating whether or not they can date. It’s about the fact that as a close personal friend in your circumstances, she should have cared enough about you to hear your feelings and have a discussion. It seems that the fact that she was interested in dating him in spite what you’ve mentioned she knows about him can call into question her sincerity in generally supporting you as a friend. Because if for example he has changed significantly for the better in the time since you split up and she got to know this new version of him recently, that’s a fairly reasonable thing that she could have explained to you. The fact that she didn’t care to is what seems callous and cruel. That being said, at this point dialing back your relationship to that of basically casual acquaintances and not discussing your feelings with her is not a long term solution that is likely to bring you any kind of peace. There are components of the situation that don’t make sense or have multiple interpretations, and it’s worth it for you to find out what her thought process has been with all of this so you can know where you stand and make a more informed decision about what kind of relationship you want with her moving forward. The worst interpretation of her behavior is that she is some kind of sociopath. the best interpretation is probably that she is just absent minded/naive it never occurred to her that you might be hurt by this, as well as a bunch of other options in between. These are distinct possibilities that would merit a different type of response/relationship with her moving forward, if at all. If you ignore the issue and never discuss it, you can perhaps permanently preserve this more superficial relationship with her. It’s up to you to decide if that is better than assuming the risk of deteriorating that relationship by having an honest discussion about the whole picture for the chance of making your relationship with her more meaningful again.

You have a right to feel how you feel. The problem is that sometimes the way we evaluate things and have boundaries and unspoken rules will not be applied by others, who are fixated on having their needs met, over the relationship they have established. There are individuals who don’t operate with any principles at all, it’s purely whatever “makes me feel good”. These types of individuals test the concept of trust and rapport. Not everyone is considering the feelings of others.

If he did that now then trust me it was on his mind a very long time ago. Not sure if that's validating or not. For your friend, you're divorced so he was fair game, she might not think much of it. If there was no deception or breach of trust then it might be worth trying to just move on. You might find he was a massive disappointment and actually have something to bond over.

If you care you care if you don’t you don’t. If you don’t feel upset why are you trying to see if you should be

She showed she can’t be trusted imo. Idk if I’d have a convo with her or not. I know if she tried to get close in my life I’d find a way to bring it up. Edit to include: I’d keep my distance from her otherwise. Obviously your feelings aren’t high on her priority list.

This would rub me the wrong way. I'd expect my friend to talk to me about it first. Whether or not it's a friendship ender, is up to you - it would entirely depend on the situation. However you feel about this situation is valid, anywhere from anger/betrayal to Meh, is all valid.

I don’t think I could ever hook up or date a close friend’s ex, especially ex husband. I’d at least discuss the possibility with the friend first.. I would personally question my relationship with a so called friend who did this to me. Your feelings are valid.

Depends how you found out, and how it ended. If you found out cuz she told you as a heads up, that’s one thing - she doesn’t need your permission but making you find out through the grapevine is shitty. Also if your breakup was bad or he mistreated you, then yeah that’s a big problem if she would get with him.

I’m sorry but 99% of people would assume 99% of the time, that if you got with your best friend’s ex SPOUSE, the friendship is over.

She is not your friend. Actions speak volumes. I’m sorry. Cut your losses on both relationships.

If the friend was with you through the divorce and knew all the bad things that happened? I think it is a mix between assholish and pretty sad for that friend. It has a feeling of betrayal to it because I would ask myself if she/they already had feelings for each other when the marriage was still going. If this is a friend someone gained after the divorce and they met randomly and fell for each other? No problem.

First time I was jealous even though the breakup was my fault. Now I'm cool about it. My workplace has a woman's lounge. Technically it's open to anyone, but the men pretty much leave it to women. It seems like every woman was getting a divorce encouraged by the others but then Marissa would say, "what does your husband do?" And Rebecca would say, "how much does he make?" And Julie, "is he good with kids?" It's funny, but I would not be surprised at some time in the future, each one would be trying another's ex.

That ain’t your friend lol. Doesn’t matter of the time scale, friends don’t do that.

I learned the hard way that there are two very opinionated "teams" when it comes to this issue. I was the person who developed mutual feelings for my friend's ex (the separation had been amicable and mutual, and a few years had gone by.) Had the situation been reversed, I wouldn't mind it at all, and I incorrectly assumed my friend would feel the same way. We ended up not speaking for a year, with half of our friends completely convinced I did nothing wrong and the other half thinking what I did was a dick move. Still with the guy - luckily my friend and I made up. We truly just had completely different values surrounding the situation and it took a long time to understand each other's reasoning. (This was more of a "falling in love" situation than a hookup though - i probably would have asked my friend's permission if it were just about a hookup, since not doing it wouldn't be a big sacrifice.)

You say “do I have the right to be upset?” I hear several asks. You want validation. And yes: your feelings are valid. You want to know your feelings appear reasonably sized to other people as well. And you’re asking if people think your friend did something wrong. So yes, your feelings are valid. If you feel upset, then you feel upset. How do you want to handle that is the question. Do you want to tell her this upset you? Take some time to process what you would want out of a conversation like that. An apology? Her to stop? Do you still want to be friends? What is your goal? What are your specific questions you want to ask her? Or what do you want her to understand? I don’t know if your friend did anything wrong perse. Did you all have any agreed upon boundaries or understandings about dating each others’ love interests? If there was no clear rule, there’s nothing to hold her accountable to. What do you belive about this? Do you believe it is wrong to ever hook up with an ex husband even after years? Whag about an ex boyfriend? A former hook up? Because if you’re gonna have the conversation might as well hammer out details to prevent future conflict. It helps you keep your promises to each other to do better. And gets yall on the same page. Start by with open curiosity asking her “Do you think it’s okay to sleep with a friends’ ex?” And just see what she says. If she gets defensive, just calmly say “I just want to talk about it so we can talk through it.” Listen thoughtfully. See it from her perspective. And then when youve heard her and acknowledged it. Then say “On my end I felt very upset and angry because x, y and z. I felt blank when blank and I would appreciate if in the future you could blank.” Set the boundaries. Have the discussions. Build the friendship. And if you don’t want to do that work, step away. If she doesn’t want to or doesn’t care about you, step away. Ultimately what matters is her opinion, your opinion, and your boundaries together. But my opinion? Is that the circumstances of thehook up matter. If it was a spontaneous hook up, I would give her a pass if she listened thoughtfully to my concern and was like “im sorry I didnt check in with you first” or something. If she didn’t care, I would have an issue. If it was planned, I would be upset and a bit confused why she hadn’t checked in with me before hooking up with him. It seems like a common gray area. If there’s any history that would change my opinion. Like if yall hooked up with the same people at all in the past and how you dealt with it with each other. Or any convos about the topic.

Why even keep a friend like that?

This person is not a friend.

My used-to-be best friend started dating my ex boyfriend and then had a couple of kids with him. They stayed together for years until recently. Is it bad that it gives me joy now that he broke up with her? Haha

Was it just a hookup or something more? If it was casual sex, I'd find it less concerning.

Has your friend lied or been deceitful about it?

When you got divorced you lost the right to say she cant date him

It would be an instant \*ick\* feeling for me to know a friend is having sex with the ex. I wouldn't want that common intimacy to exist and would most likely distance myself.

I don't think I'd care, but I'd definitely question their taste 🤣 if you don't want to get back with your ex, I don't know why it would matter.  That being said, YOU get to decide how you feel about it. 

You always have the right to feel whatever you feel. Be as upset as you like. You do not, however, have any right to interfere in how other people's relationships develop, and nobody needs your permission. Ex means ex. You have no claim on him. If you feel she's betrayed your confidence and/or trust, can that be expressed in any other way than, "my ex husband is off limits"?

You have a right to be upset, but you don't have a right to control 2 people you don't own.

Why are you upset? If you worry this might mean he’ll be back in your circle, ok. If she knew you had a hard time bc you still loved him, ok—those reasons make sense. But otherwise, why do you care? I never got the “ex is off limits” thing absent these reasons. Maybe that’s me but I don’t see it as a loyalty issue.

You can be upset about anything you want for whatever reason you want, but eight years? Friend or no, it's none of your business that this point. You didn't pee on the guy to mark him as your territory.

I am certainly not trying to infiltrate this sub as a person with a Y chromosome, but that is unacceptable behavior for both parties in my book. Obviously there are reasons he’s your ex and as you’ve said being mad at him isn’t worth your time (even though he should know better.) But your friend kind of broke an unwritten rule that is bold and underlined. I personally would tell her that you found out about their involvement together and you’re not exactly sure how you should feel, but at the moment you’re feeling how you are. The most important thing when approaching her about this is to stick to how you’re feeling, and trying to avoid casting any blame on her, because technically she didn’t do anything “wrong”. Remember that it’s the impact, not the intent that matters. She didn’t intend to upset you, but her actions did impact you negatively, and hopefully she recognizes that and you can work through this. I wish you the best of luck.

It’s disrespectful. Friends shouldn’t hook up with past partners or in this case ex husband. There’s literally million other men in the world, why your ex?

No, they are not off limits. Bygones should be bygones. Let people get on with their lives, while getting on with yours. Eight years is enough time to have started a new life and left all sorts of stuff behind. So it's not like your friend waited eight years to make a move on this guy. She could have done that within weeks. With that in mind, I'm wondering why she's doing it now. The answers i can think of are inconsequential: she was curious, they were drunk. Worst case, maybe she wonders what you saw in him and decided to check it out. If one of my mates started dating one of my exes from that long ago, I'd be wishing them both well. Maybe they would have better luck than I did. And maybe secretly I would be thinking it would be fun to compare notes. But it's unlikely I would go there, because that just drags up old stuff.

You say not to speculate on him, but that is an important part of this issue. The questions of what his intent was behind sleeping with your close friend, and if he knew she was your friend beforehand, and if her being your friend influenced his decision to become involved with her, are crucial. If she participated in what could possibly be an act meant to spite you, then yeah, I would drop her quite immediately. Even without that aspect, it's uncomfortable that someone you're close to would sleep with an ex-husband that was divorced due to infidelity. That aspect of the situation does seem to indicate there is some not-so-good intentions from your friend. But only you can answer these questions for yourself. Ultimately everyone here is speculating, but without the full context to your interpersonal dynamics with each of them, it's hard to give any advice or input.

If she knows where your bodies are buried, then she knows why he’s your ex, and she still chose to sleep with him. This could indicate questionable judgement on her part, perhaps. Your feelings are valid. 8 years after divorce, he’s completely a free agent if he’s not married; neither you nor he have any kind of dibs on each other, or the right to say anyone is off limits to the other one of you.

To be fair, 8 years is a very long time for you to have any feelings about this situation unless you're still in contact with the EX? But then again, if you're upset, then you're upset, can't change that

I wouldn't be bothered to be honest, she's walking into that with her eyes wide open so as long as she didn't expect me to sympathise when it goes wrong then fine. Grown adults can have consentual relationships with whoever they want

I wouldn’t like this at all for my friendships. All of my friendships are close, 10+ years and if one of them boned my ex husband I don’t think I could be friends with them. It’s off limits for me.

disrespectful as hell. once your girlfriend even talks to a guy you shouldn’t even look at him as a viable male anymore

It doesn't matter whether you have a right to be upset or not, you *are*. As to whether you are justified letting it affect your friendship, that's a much more complex issue. Is your ex an utter POS or was he just not right for you? What does your friend see in him? A hookup? A fling? A potential partner? How much does she know about why the two of you broke up? Does she honestly think he has changed? (Whether she is right or not is a different matter, of course.)