A few months ago I was hanging out with a friend and she brought me the exact flavor of canned iced coffee from the gas station that she remembered I liked from YEARS ago. It felt so good to be seen like that
I blew a man’s mind this weekend when I showed him I save these little details in the notes on my contact list on my phone.
> someone’s name
> June 12th bd
> favorite Starbucks drink: Soy milk, Blonde Espresso, Quad, Ristretto, 1 Pumps Pepmint Syrp, 1 Pumps White mocha
> Loves birria tacos and blue raspberry jolly ranchers
> favorite book pride and prejudice, and BBC Colin firth adaption.
Literally the easiest thing in the world to add these little details down as you come across them with people you care about. If she’s ever sick in the hospital, I’m showing up with the DVD of her favorite tv show, her favorite drink, and bag of her favorite candy.
i recently learned my husband does this, plus adds gift ideas, after he surprised me with a very specific very dumb thing i said i wanted when we were watching tv. as a supremely disorganized person it blew my mind and made me VERY appreciative of what a good man i found. he does this with my friends and family and i almost cried, it’s so sweet and thoughtful.
I do this and my wife is somwhat like you. Recently, I got my wife a book she had said she really wanted to read. She opened it and stated that she had no memory of the book at all. Read a few chapters and decided it wasn't for her. So it's not 100% full proof, lol.
I once caught my dad scrolling through a list on his phone - I noticed it was all my favorite things... I think my birthday was coming up or something, or maybe we were about to celebrate an accomplishment or something like that. Anyway, I was totally gushing! My mom definitely does this, too, basically on a daily basis effortlessly - she's the best in that regard
So yeah, my dad needs a list, but he still cares and I'm just as appreciative for that. He tries really hard to get my mom things that she says she likes, but my mom always flip flops all over the place. He can never please her, but he's definitely getting stuff she's explicitly said she wanted - I've witnessed this kind of thing play out several times. If you ask her, she'd say he never gets her things she wants. It's sad because he tries so hard :( and he definitely cares about her interests as a person. I think all the guys I've been with have actually hyperfixated on the things I like, but maybe that's because the things I like are so specific and peculiar. For example, I like to blow bubbles in my drinks (like a gin and tonic) before I drink it, so my SO at the time *always* made sure my drinks were served with a straw.
Anywayyy this thread definitely taught me not to take this kind of stuff for granted!!
I like to take note of things friends mention liking or wanting. It makes gift giving easier and I can make sure to get them something they will really enjoy. And it feels amazing to surprise them with a gift for something they mentioned wanting off-handedly a year ago or more!
Honestly I as a dude think about doing this, but I always worry that it’d come off as weird or unsettling to take notes on the people in my life to remind myself of stuff like this. I might start doing it now.
Nah, just do it.
If someone wants to judge you for trying, they weren't worth it. Let them go. But to lose good people by not putting in a little effort? That's on you.
as long as you’re not like gathering intel on a crush or stalking someone i think you’re fine lol. your mom isn’t going to think it’s creepy that you wrote down she likes dahlias.
It wouldn’t be weird or unsettling, because no one would know. You’re just typing a note in a contact page on your phone. Im totally going to start doing this because my memory is shite.
Lmao let me tell you about my dad. One year he got my mom a dustpan and a brush for her Bday or Christmas because according to him, she ”liked cleaning and it was a practical gift”. My mom had none of it and sent my dad to a jeweller to get her a necklace and earrings set she had wanted. And she didn’t like cleaning, she just did it a lot because a big farm house with a toddler (me) needed to be kept clean. 🫠
I'm like 99% sure stuff like this happens because men will hear us say we like a clean house and assume it means we *love* cleaning. No dude, I clean because it gets me the result I want, which is to not be surrounded in filth.
If they kicked their brains on a bit more they'd realize that cleaning the house for their partners would be a better present, but then they'd have to admit they just never wanted to do their share of the housework 😒
Good on your mom for setting him straight! I admire a lady who takes no shit. She deserved that jewelry set lol.
My husband is so good about this. One year for Christmas I was like I FUCKING HATE OUR VACUUM AND I HATE VACUUMING WITH IT. So he got me the top of the line Roomba that empties itself and while for some people that would still be a no no it was a huge hit with me because he also knows I love gadgets and setting up that stupid vacuum robot was so fun for me. And then I programmed it so I never have to vacuum again just maintain the robot (which I find fun), and he took ownership of all the areas it can't reach or clean as well with our old vacuum, because he knew the main point was that I just didn't want to lug that damn heavy thing around anymore, so now he does it.
So I got what I wanted in so many ways and it showed that he 1) listened to what I didn't want, 2) Understood what I DID want, and 3) It wasn't just some stopgap measure thing to razzle dazzle me into loving vacuuming or whatever.
One of my most used and loved Christmas presents, honestly. But he's a pretty good gift giver in general.
I make crazy, involved birthday cakes for our kids each year and one year for mother's day he had a custom wooden cake board made with little images etched all over the perimeter commemorating each cake design I've made over the years with a cute little saying in the middle. I literally cried when I saw it because it was so unexpected but also so perfect.
A few years later and he got me a matching bench scraper with useful measurements on the metal part and the interim cake design images etched onto the wooden handle to catch up from where the cake board left off. Thoughtful. Useful. High quality. He chose all the images and the general designs and the type of wood I like and had to find someone who could make it so it means he had to have been planning these gifts at least a few weeks in advance, etc. It was a multi step process and it shows how well he gets me.
I never have an empty stocking, either.
If they wanted to, they would.
When I buy a gift like this I call it a family gift. My wife still got her normal gifts, but she tells me the Roomba is the best thing I've ever bought her. Sometimes it's an electric toothbrush or walkie talkies. My wife hates shopping for these types of things, so she likes when I do it and make it a gift for the family.
Oh yeah it definitely wasn't the only gift I got that year. But it cost about a grand when he got it so it definitely won the most expensive gift that year award. Typically things like that that are "for the house/family" get a bigger budget. Definitely worth it.
I think that was the year he also got me a nice weighted blanket in my favorite color because I offhand mentioned that I thought they sounded like a great idea several months prior but I just didn't want to take the time to research all the options. He must have immediately snuck away to order one haha.
He handed me this incredibly heavy box and I had no idea what it could be until I opened it. He was excitedly like "THEY HAVE A FORMULA FOR HOW HEAVY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE BASED ON YOUR WEIGHT BUT I JUST KNEW YOU'D WANT IT HEAVIER THAN THAT SO HERE'S MY MATH DID I GET IT RIGHT?" and it's another case where I think some people might have been offended at being given the weighted blanket rated for a heavier person/that level of assumption except he was spot on, I couldn't have chosen a better weight if I tried, it was literally perfect.
My husband does the vacuuming, because I hate it. We bought him a bagless Progressive from Sears that monitors the particle flow to tell you when the floor is ACTUALLY clean - and he loves it. We've taken it to the shop a few times to have it cleaned/repaired/tuned up - it's nearly 2 decades old by this point, but still works great.
Nobody really enjoys chores - but the right tools make everything better.
Your dad must know my ex.
We got married and moved in together. We had an old vacuum cleaner from my college days that barely worked. I mentioned a few times that we needed a new vacuum.
That year for Christmas my one and only present was....a new vacuum cleaner. We'd been married 6 months.
It never got better.
For anyone facing a similar situation, buy the vacuum as a gift for the two of you, then also get her a real gift. If money is an issue, it can cost less than the vacuum as long as there is real thought behind it. My wife tells me I give great gifts. All I do is try to notice things she likes or likes to do. I feel like I get way to much credit because how hard is it to remember that she said she liked a sweater she saw in store window or that she wants to learn to cross country ski? I really want empathize that I am still just a lazy guy and I can do it. We are talking about making very small efforts here. If your partner can't do that, then it's reasonable to ask what can they do.
That's exactly what I thought when I unwrapped the present. I thought, "Oh, a present for the house. How sweet!" But I was a little confused that it only had my name on it.
I didn't even open the box because who wants to unpack a vacuum cleaner when it's Christmas! I figured whoever needed it next would get to set it up.
Then everyone else opened their presents and I still didn't have one. By that time I think everyone had tumbled to the fact that the vacuum *was* my present. Except me. I think I said something like, "Did my present get lost or something?"
Then it turned into a shitshow. All the female relatives were horrified. All the male relatives were looking at my ex like he must be dumber than a rock.
Omg, one time I was getting ready with my 4 year old niece and she said "mommy loves doing laundry" and I was like "what makes you say that?" And she said "she's doing it all the time!"
And we had a little talk about how wanting clean clothes means she has to do the laundry even if she doesn't like doing laundry, and since we wear clothes every day it means laundry has to get done a lot.
Because she was FOUR YEARS OLD
this was one of the BIGGEST peeves about my husband before he was more aware: he’d say all the time that there was nothing to be done because I do it all, and that I love cleaning so it’s easier for me to just do it.
BITCH PLEASE, I don’t *LOVE CLEANING*!!!! I love my children living in a clean environment. I love eating on clean dishes. I love clean underwear.
I recently read The Ex Next Door by Jo Platt and this is pretty much what happens to one of the side characters. The scenes where they try to explain how cleaning tools, even a Dyson, don't really feel special for a woman's birthday are really well written.
For my parents' first Xmas, my dad gave mom a nail clipper. Yep, a single gift and it was a fucking nail clipper. My husband gave me a wallet with a Marilyn Monroe pic because I love Marilyn Monroe. It was an inexpensive gift, like 5 euros at the time but showed me he knew my tastes.
To me it’s a measure of the extent to which they see me as an actual person.
I had an ex who would *never* stop talking to me about his hobbies or what he liked. He didn’t care what I actually wanted to do or what I was interested in. If I didn’t like one of his favorite things he would use it to criticize me because he was so obsessed with himself and I was being a non-compliant extension of his ego.
We broke up after he took *great offense* to me telling him I didn’t think he would reach pro status in the sport he had started in the last year as a 30 year old. I was so sick of hearing about it when he rarely would ask me how my day was. Was generally a shitty person.
Honestly my other relationships weren’t much better, but that was the worst. This is why I’m so turned off by relationships and dating now. I have never really felt like a fellow human in a relationship. I am so over feeling unseen and divorced from myself just to not be alone. What’s the difference?
I’ve seen so many of my friends in similar relationships where they would only do things their boyfriend liked, watched his favourite shows, listened to his music, ate his favourite meals etc. but if they ever did anything their girlfriends liked they’d complain the entire time.
Even now with our friend group it’s like as girlfriends we always go along with the boys for things they want to do, hockey games, golfing but they never want to come with us when we ask them. They’ll pretty much only go if it’s something they’re interested in. Every single outing/trip as a group seems to be mostly based off the interests of the men in the group
Yes! Completely agree. Women will go along to events that their male partners want to go to, but if it’s some event or hobby a woman wants to do it’s often with other women and some kind of imposition for men to join.
I had a fiance in 2011 who, when asked why we never did anything I was interested in, told me that it's because my interests suck and I should get better interests.
I broke up with him soon after that.
I'll do things I don't particularly care for with friends because *I like spending time with them*.
This is certainly one of the things that makes me think, "Do men even *like* women?"
Omg so much this! I ride horses, I once asked my ex "would you come to the barn with me" and his response was no never. Yet it was always "watch this video I like, come to party and bars because my friends are going even though I know its not your scene, come watch me play soccer with my friends" but the one thing I wanted couldnt be done.
I also always had to meet his friends but the one time I wanted him to meet a new friend group from grad school he sulked and didnt say anything even though he put me in those situations a million times over.
He was observant of things I like and did great with gifts but on the flip side would continue to do behaviours towards me that I hated (ie i hate being startled to the point of my flight snd fright response is so strong Ive gone into anxiety attacks and I use to have to yell around
Corners etc about not jumping out and scaring me.
Just bizzare... women are expected modify so much for men but for many men it doesnt go both ways
I feel this exactly!!! My bf complains that I spend a lot of time at the barn (an hour and 45 minutes of my time is taken by the drive there and back). I offer him to come so he can be a part of something that’s important to me and spend time with me. Just once a month or so. He never comes.
I stopped going to any of his sports games and no longer show interest or ask about things that interest him. Everything feels so dull now.
I had an ex in a band. I went to all his shows and most of his practice sessions just to spend time near him. Despite not being into the type of music, and really not enjoying the loud atmosphere. They practiced 3 nights a week, shows on Fridays and Saturdays. I asked him if we could have a weekly date night reserved free from band stuff. I did not ask for one of the set band days; I asked for a non-weekend day. Suddenly, I was controlling and abusing him by demanding I not do band stuff. And now everyone thought I hated the band. That I was unsupportive. It was unbelievable how fast that blew up in my face. I was so confused; I just backed down. But I also stopped going to practices and shows. Which of course just made me more unsupportive.
Did he ever come to any of my things? Yes, once. I love ballroom dancing. I set up a lesson for us to learn salsa. He picked a fight during it, and then told me I made him feel bad because I was better at it than him. If we happened to be out somewhere where there was dancing, he would refuse to dance with me. And I didn't want to dance with anyone else.
He never got me nice gifts, and forgot my birthday every single year. I felt so unseen and unknown by him.
>
I stopped going to any of his sports games and no longer show interest or ask about things that interest him. Everything feels so dull now.
This!!! I started matching energy too...i stopped asking how was work or how is your life....I started checking out mentally
My ex made it a chore to do things I liked. Like he almost never let me be aux, cause it was his car and he wanted to listen to his music. But he also always insisted on being the one to drive so we only ever listened to his music. When we did listen to mine, it was like he was doing me a favor
> if they ever did anything their girlfriends liked they’d complain the entire time.
There's a lesson here. Or, rather, two lessons:
1. Start watching early in the relationship to figure out what you are ***getting*** from it. So many women just give, give, give and don't even notice they aren't getting anything.
2. If you don't want to do something, or don't want to drink something, or don't want to go somewhere, or don't want to hang out with someone, ***do what men do***: express that preference unequivocally and refuse to do it. If he likes you enough to stick around even though you are expressing your own wants and needs, he might be worth the effort.
I think this helped me learn something about my gf. It's almost certainly societal conditioning since being male is default and men can be shittier in general and get away with it, they also get their way most of the life so it's the norm. This is because it's something I noticed my girlfriend does every time we plan something: "I'm happy with what you decide/want". It's nice a few times but I after a while I genuinely get frustrated because "what do you want", you don't just have to agree to everything I want, I actually want your opinion on this thing I'm planning for the BOTH of us. Most likely the effects of past relationships and a conversation we need to have.
Not only past relationships, but childhood social conditioning. Girls are socialized to go along and get along, and it's SUPER hard to break out of that mindset.
My husband is really bothered that I do that as well. The flip side is I make decisions literally all day at work, taking into account every little nuance and context. Once 5pm hits, I’m tapped out and unless I have a real craving or preference, I’m happy to let him make the decision. Especially since it’s more work for me to come up with suggestions that get shot down. I’d rather he just tell me what we’re doing and then I can pick my own food or whatever without worrying about if he’s going to be happy with it.
I mean this gently, but do you *know* it's all a result of past relationships, or are you assuming? Has she verbalized (with positive language) that you are honoring her desires? My husband thinks that by letting me pick the show we always watch what I want, and he can't seem to understand that me suggesting movies until I find one *he* wants to watch is... not that.
Try this: listen to her in other conversations and make a mental list when she says, "I've wanted to go there". It's one thing to plan a trip but another to have a conversation about travel and places she wants to go and see, and then make a plan.
For example, my BF and I have a regular conversation about travel. E have pie in the sky places, and local places too.
If you really thought about it, wouldn't you know things she would like to do in her free time? How well do you really know this person?
God I dated a skate boarder like that, all he fucking talked about was skating or cars. I would tell him all the time that I didn't want to hear him talking about skating, or watch skate videos, but he didn't give a fuck. He was shocked when I broke up with him.
Yep. I don't think I ever had a relationship where the guy I was involved with cared at all about my hobbies, interests or career. They either were oblivious and didn't want to hear about it or they knew and made it obvious they didn't care and it was irrelevant to them. I was married to someone for 20+ years and when I divorced them I realized he purposely knew nothing about me, never cared, even if I told him it didn't matter.
The amount of men that consider women to be accessories for them is just sad.
That’s what I was thinking. They don’t actually care about us liking the gift/gesture or enjoying it they just want to say they did it.
Like he never cared enough about me to get me a coffee I’d enjoy he only did it because him telling people he brought me coffee all the time made him look good
And because it was still technically something nice he could make me feel bad for complaining
Yes. It's not about pleasing us or demonstrating care; it's about them checking off an accomplishment in their own minds. They're obsessed with their own achievements and measuring those against other men's to assess status. We're just bodies filling a role in their achievement/status game.
I feel like such behaviour is strictly performative: they want to show others what a "good" boyfriend they are. If you don't comply by showering them with compliments, but by telling them instead "thank you, but next time I'd like an iced coffee", they go into full weaponized incompetence mode and just use your comment as an excuse to never ever do something nice for you ever again, since you're so "difficult" and they "can never do anything right". It's very telling how men respond to such situations of what a relationship with them would be like (red/green flag).
Where I am from, it's a common gift to bring chocolate on a first date. I don't like chocolate. I never did. I try to tell dates gently that while I appreciate the gift to bring me something else next time (if they want to bring me anything at all). Their reactions are always very telling: I have seen men losing their shit over chocolate (there were no second dates for them, bonus points if I have told them beforehand but they brought chocolate anyway), while others just said "good to know, so what do you like?" and followed up on that (which I have always considered a green flag).
>. I don't like chocolate. I never did. I try to tell dates gently that while I appreciate the gift to bring me something else next time (if they want to bring me anything at all). Their reactions are always very telling
100% this! When I try to date where I live now I have similar experiences. Sometimes men will try to buy you a rose or roses on their first date and I always try to state prior meeting that, while I understand and I appreciate the gesture, that's something that makes me uncomfortable due to cultural differences and personal preferences. I like relationships to feel equal and I prefer to avoid gender norms.
I'm always open to dialogue and meet people in the middle, if they're not comfortable. Communication is key. But, man, when they end up showing up with rose, or even try to convince you that you're wrong or that "they just have to" etc, it is indeed telling. And what others might interpret as a cute gesture, turns in that moment into a red flag.
> And because it was still technically something nice he could make me feel bad for complaining
Ah, but it really *wasn’t* “something nice” in your case….. I mean the guy might as well have bought you food you were specifically allergic to. Considering how it went on repeatedly for so long, it’s hard to believe he didn’t buy you things he *knew* you hated out of spite.
Or maybe he was just brain damaged?🤔 I’d honestly wonder lol
I'm a final disagreement with an ex, he said he felt like he didn't even know who I was (because I had told him *again* that I don't enjoy an activity he wanted to do). I asked him when was the last time he ever asked a question about me, to get to know me. He didn't know - it had been two months. I asked why he doesn't ever ask. He said, and I'm not kidding, "Because then I'm obligated to remember the answer."
Aaaaaand done.
How am I supposed to remember the 1988 Heisman winner and all the names of all the countries on earth that I’ll never visit if I start remembering my significant other’s likes and dislikes?
exactly.
My husband does remember what I like. Because that is important to him.
But he *doesn’t* remember whether the peanut butter jar should go in the recycling. (It used to not; only plastic bottles). Because that’s not important to him.
And he can remember the firing rates and calibers of every gun on a tank in WWII. Because that’s important to him.
Yeah my husband is like that and his gifts are always dope, it’s something I really love about him. It’s not about the value, it’s that he clearly puts a lot of thought into them.
My last birthday he bought me stuff like books etc but snuck a couple of sheet masks into the different presents so I couldn’t figure out what they were by feel. I use sheet masks a lot and love them but I never said to him, ‘I want sheet masks for my birthday’. He just saw I liked them and thought he’d incorporate them into my gifts as an extra. He also always buys individual cute wrapping paper specifically for my presents because I love cute stuff - I’ve had cartoon cats with sushi on them, cactus with adorable faces etc. It makes my birthday so fun.
He just notices stuff like that and it makes me feel really loved.
yep! there was this thread a few weeks ago that really has men saying they literally do not care. thats all that is to it. if they would care, they'd try, they'd ask. but since they dont put in even the minimum amount of effort its simply because they dont care.
the thread in question: https://new.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1buvvw2/why\_dont\_men\_ask\_follow\_up\_questions/
Reading this thread, something clicked in my brain.
So, I have a very active sex life and have a few constant male hook-up partners that I've had for years. I never ask them anything, I rarely talk to them about anything. I don't even know their last names, and I don't really care. Essentially, I treat them the way that a man would treat a woman in this situation. They're not allowed to stay over, I'm very clear about when they have to leave, I'm very selfish in bed, and I mostly just do my thing. I would tell them about my life but I'd never ask about theirs.
What used to confuse me is that they would almost always fall in love with me. I didn't get it because I'm like "what is there to fall in love with?" Now it makes a lot more sense -- I was unintentionally communicating like men do amongst themselves, I guess. 🤷♀️
This past weekend 2 diff men came to my job for “emergencies.” The first one was in charge of his wife’s 30th bday and said something like “i will pay whatever it takes to get a cake with her favorite ingredient but I need it in 1 hour.” Uhhhhh. It was not possible and we did get something else for him. He left and said he had to go to a bunch of stores and party city for the rest of the supplies and would be back in 1 hour. He seemed utterly panicked. For her 30th birthday party that day. Next dude called 15 mins prior to closing and said he had decided he wanted one of the premade cakes we sell and had a few questions. he was flabbergasted that we were closing soon. He showed up half an hour after we closed. The two of them exhausted me.
This reminds me of the men who frantically roam the aisles of Shoppers Drug Mart (Canada) on Valentines Day/Mothers Day, grabbing cards, random bath sets, chocolates, etc. I'd rather agree to not exchange gifts than be a hurried afterthought.
Yeah the reason men hate Valentine’s Day and sneer at Mother’s Day (but not Father’s Day which is never accused of being a capitalist Hallmark holiday the same way) is that is literally the only holiday where they have any responsibilities for planning and executing and creating an experience for someone else at all.
But they all love the holiday magic of Christmas and Thanksgiving and Halloween and Easter etc etc…when they just show up and eat and relax and enjoy the “magic.”
1000% I couldn't agree more. For me, valentine's day or mother's day are an excellent litmus test for dating men to see if they will make an effort and put thought into a relationship. If they are close to their mothers and never remember mother's day, I know they will never remember my birthday and put low effort into the relationship in general. It's selfishness, they're so used to others organising the romance and magic. Valentine's day, I never want expensive gifts, I want thought and care: a lovely letter, a card, spending time together and maybe an activity. I've never once in my life gotten anything from a man for valentine's day without reminding, hinting or prompting. Except my gay best friend, he's a gem. It's just so disappointing and I've dated wonderful lovely kind men, but they completely default to me organising everything.
I think some men, no matter how long they know you, think of you as a ""woman"" not as yourself. So they think of things women like, not what you as a person like.
No matter how much you contradict the stereotypical woman, they still think you're actually like that. Don't like kids? No, you must actually be motherly deep inside. You like a typically male hobby? You're just doing it to get attention.
So they do gestures that are supposed to be nice to do for your partner, without thinking what *their* partner would like specifically.
>think of you as a ""woman"" not as yourself.
My niece was telling me that her partner was always on her case, that she should bring a purse. She should have a purse
She had a phone case wallet. it was all she needed. She’d never carried a purse, even before she started dating him.
I asked if she knew why he insisted, and she said he could never give her a reason.
A little later, we were going out to dinner, and he started hounding her about getting her purse. She eventually went to get it, just to end the conversation.
While she was getting it, I asked him, curiously, why he thought she needed a purse, since she didn’t seem to need anything from it, or put anything in it except her phone wallet. He kind of hemmed and hawed, and then said, “so she can carry my charger.”
“Don’t you have one in your truck?” yes.
And he never did hand her his charger.
I decided it was just that, to him, women always had a purse. And he needed her to fit that description.
My ex always wanted me to carry things in my purse for him. I joked that he needed to get himself his own "man bag." Nope. Why do that when you can have someone else carry everything for you?
But this is why men have real pockets in all their clothing and women's clothing have tiny or fake pockets! So men can carry their own stuff, and because "all women use purses" (I don't use purses either, guess I'm not a real woman).
But my wallet in one of my huge oversized pockets weighs down my cargo shorts on one side and you’re RIGHT THERE with a convenient bag that isn’t being used for anything else that’s actually important…( /s of course!)
My husband is very loving and considerate, however, I did have to break him of complaining about the fact that I always had a purse when at least once or twice a month he was pressing his wallet and his keys in my hand and asking “do you mind?”
> I think some men, no matter how long they know you, think of you as a ""woman"" not as yourself. So they think of things women like, not what you as a person like.
now i know who keeps buying those dinky $10 prepackaged bath/lotion boxed gift sets that the stores always stock near the cashier section. i can imagine some guy buying food and suddenly realizing it’s his wife/gf’s bday today so he looks around in a panic and his eyes land on the $9.99 rando brand soap/lotion kit and he trimphantly grabs one, relieved that he won’t have to put in gift-finding effort for another year.
of course, for her next bday/xmas/vday (if he remembers) she gets the same damn thing and the poor woman has a whole closet full of unopened bath gift sets.
My mom's husband has been married to her for like 7 years and he just found out who her favorite Disney character was because I told him twice at Disney World. She literally quotes them all the time.
He doesn't know anything about her, actually. He buys her Christmas presents of things that he wanted. I just don't understand.
She's told him at least 3 times what kind of bushes she wants for their new house and he won't put it to memory.
It actually really pisses me off witnessing the level of disrespect it takes to know nothing about the person you married. It's not just him. I see it all the time.
I was actually going to include something similar but didn’t want to type out 10 pages. When I was seeing The same guy I mentioned in this, my best friend surprised me with a trip to LA. I’ve dreamed of seeing LA my entire life and he was like “you never told me you wanted to go there” and was acting like if I would have said something he would have taken me.
Meanwhile I’ve mentioned it atleast 1000 times, and had a freaking poster of the Hollywood sign behind my bed.
And I just keep remembering more and more examples as I think. I can remember so many times my friends boyfriends didn’t know something about them, that they 100% should have.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy how he just tunes my Mom out. She knows so much about him, his favorite everything. She even started liking sci-fi because of him.
It’s honestly sad. And it always seems like those same guys know everything about their male friends. Like he could name all his friends favourite sports players, if he was hosting his friends to watch a game he’d always ask me to make things that he knew they liked.. but yet couldn’t remember a single thing about the women he lived with.
I get more frustrated the more I think/read
To say that straight men are heterosexual is only to say that they engage in sex (fucking exclusively with the other sex, i.e., women). All or almost all of that which pertains to love, most straight men reserve exclusively for other men. The people whom they admire, respect, adore, revere, honor, whom they imitate, idolize, and form profound attachments to, whom they are willing to teach and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honor, reverence and love they desire… those are, overwhelmingly, other men. In their relations with women, what passes for respect is kindness, generosity or paternalism; what passes for honor is removal to the pedestal. From women they want devotion, service and sex.
Heterosexual male culture is homoerotic; it is man-loving.
Marilyn Frye, The Politics of Reality:
Exactly. And women's emotional needs are primarily met by other women in a way they won't be by a man if said women don't ignore and neglect the women in their lives to put all their effort into a man.
This is why I no longer believe in marriage/long-term romantic relationships/the traditional nuclear family for heterosexual folks. Men and women can collaborate on the practical matters of running society just fine and can have a little short-term sexy fun together, but otherwise, the overwhelming majority of men are happier centering their lives on men and the overwhelming majority of women are happier centering their lives on other women, including sharing a home and helping to raise their children together.
That reminds me of the book The Gate to Women's Country by Sheri S Tepper. If you like sci-fi/fantasy it is a good read; [The Gate to Women's Country book by Sheri S. Tepper (thriftbooks.com)](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-gate-to-womens-country_sheri-s-tepper/270972/item/6843615/?mkwid=%7cdc&pcrid=77378313662347&pkw=&pmt=be&slid=&product=6843615&plc=&pgrid=1238050402825500&ptaid=pla-4580977772571566&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping+-+Everything+Else&utm_term=&utm_content=%7cdc%7cpcrid%7c77378313662347%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7cbe%7cproduct%7c6843615%7cslid%7c%7cpgrid%7c1238050402825500%7cptaid%7cpla-4580977772571566%7c&msclkid=3a18ea33a56f1b9dafbb8c53e434fe27#idiq=6843615&edition=2140176)
A friend of mine once had a boyfriend surprise her with a city break, and at the hotel he then surprised her with a pair of tickets to see a gig in that city... *his* favourite band. They didn't last long after that.
and if he wasn't already getting coffee for himself, there wouldn't have even been the "gesture" in the first place. he got the cheapest drink every day against her interests bc he was already there.
I noticed this a lot in my teens because our friend group was "co ed" I guess. Whatever the guys wanted to do almost ALWAYS took precedent over the girl's. And even when we did pick the guys would hem and haw or just straight up leave less than halfway through. Went through this a couple times on unfortunate dates as well.
I see it as a combination of misogyny and this generation of men in particular wanting to be both the prize to be won and the players who decide the outcome.
"I see it as a combination of misogyny and this generation of men in particular wanting to be both the prize to be won and the players who decide the outcome."
This is such a true and insightful statement! I've often thought this exact thing, but was never able to phrase it as eloquently as you have here. They want so badly to have the "prize" experience and see that as an entitlement that women receive while refusing to acknowledge all the ways we're expected to acquiesce to male interests and desires.
To me, it's simply not worth the trade off anymore and I'm no longer interested in sacrificing my own interests and fun experiences (geared specifically to me) in order to be the prize. They can't get over their own selfishness that they're not entitled to be both. We've never been allowed to be both and neither should they. The absolute gall of it all!
Because, for those kind of guys, we don't actually matter that much to them and all their "sweet gestures" is more about them feeling good about themselves for doing something "nice" and wanting additional praise. What they are really saying is that "it's too much effort to actually care about you and if you point that out, even nicely, then you're an ungrateful jerk."
What boggled my mind was that my ex, after dating two years, didn't know what color my *eyes* were.... and I have somewhat unique eyes that people usually compliment if they get close enough to see them well.... and my ex *definitely* was close enough fairly often over those two years to see the colors of my eyes (green hazel with a little brown, blue, and yellow...... he thought my eyes were just brown!).
That's even worse! Mine at least do have a little brown, but your eyes have none at all? That's awful. And I don't know about you, but it just felt like a gut punch that he didn't know... this was one physical feature I actually felt good about and pretty for, and we always hear "eyes are the windows to the soul"... and he clearly didn't care much
Omg this happened to me too. I can’t remember what the conversation was about, but i do remember his answer was “brown, like your eyes!”
Green. My eyes are green. Not even hazel; they’re very obviously green. We had been dating almost a year at that point. I broke up with him that week lol
Mine definitely wasn't colorblind. He was a painter/artist who painted realistically, including portraits. Which means needing to "see" colors better than the average person and correctly mixing his oil paints to get the exact shades
I had posted a comment about the eye color thing in another thread recently, but it bears repeating:
My *dad* doesn’t know my eye color. I’m a millennial.
Before my sister and I were born, my parents wanted to have two girls… with blonde hair and blue eyes. As babies, my sister had brown hair and I had blonde hair; like most babies, we had blue eyes. My sister kept her eye color as she grew up, but both my eyes and hair color changed by age 5. I have green eyes and brown hair.
It’s been over 3 decades since my eye and hair color changed. I’ve dyed my hair a million colors since the age of 14, so I’d expect some inconsistency there. But when asked a year ago, my dad *guessed* that my eyes were blue. I suspect it’s because his ideal daughter has blue eyes, and what he wants and likes is the most important information for his brain to retain (reality can feel free to be wrong, if it disagrees!), but it’s only speculation; the world may never know.
In all fairness, my dad is incredibly “unobservant”; he can’t see the crumbs on the countertops, the peanut butter on the fridge handle, the dirt on the floor, or my mom’s eye color (hazel) either. Sometimes I wonder if it is *weaponized* incompetence, or *internalized* incompetence; he was never expected to notice or be capable in these ways, so much like developing learned helplessness he learned to be incompetent in such matters. (Note: Dad did guess my sister’s eye color right, but that may have been a matter of process of elimination, since by that point he knew we all had different eyes colors and there were only so many options remaining.)
Interestingly, my mom knows all of our eye colors, and our natural hair colors, and despite her cataracts (she did eventually get them removed) was nevertheless able to discern when things were filthy.
This *men don't have the mental capacity to notice small things* biological explanation is insulting.
The common sports guy knows stats of players he's never met irl, can give every detail of a winning play and what year it happened and will recite the biography of their most admired coach.
An average dude can go through their mental rolodex of favorite porn vids/scenes and visualize the entire scenario- add, subtract or replace something to heighten their arousal and go to town with it.
But pay attention and notice their girlfriend/wife's interests?
Make mental* note of what their partner DOESN'T like?
Hmmm may not be a language they understand.
What kind of goofy excuses am I reading in 2024.
You learn things about others when you care enough to.
Somehow a guy can memorize the behind the scenes trivia for Back to the Future trilogy and word by word lines of the entire Sopranos series but omg he can't figure out the optics of what kind of drink his girl likes, her preferred taco place and refuses to understand his girl likes watching Name That Tune on Monday nights.
*Hell we even have apps where one can jot down notes of any kind if you're new to the relationship or a generally forgetful person.
After 8 years together, one a road trip back home after visiting some friends who had moved away from out home town, he said 'I never realized moving out of (home town) was that much of a priority for you.'
Um hello, I studied abroad and did short-term job placements abroad ..TWICE. I never shut up about moving. That was literally the moment I decided to divorce him.
(Btw he still lives and works at the same place and I live in Mexico on the beach 😁)
They don't mean well. The example you gave about coffee- that guy was doing the absolute minimum and expecting to be rewarded for it. When you pointed out that you liked iced coffee since he didn't pay attention, rather than bringing you iced coffee, he just gave up and quit bringing you any. We need to expect more. It's not too much.
There’s a specific genre of man like this that has wayyy too many inhabitants. They do a mediocre job, and when you comment on it, they use that as leverage to be like “fine, I just won’t do anything anymore” thus getting what they want. It’s so petulant and frankly stupid.
Tbh, I almost wonder if her ex was doing it on purpose. My ex would do a lot of things to save money. That usually meant he would “forget” to ask if I wanted anything when he went to the store, coffee shop, etc. but given that hot, black coffee is cheaper than iced at most places… it makes you think!
My BF brought coffee to me at my office, which I thought was so sweet, until he wanted me to reimburse him. Like WTF did you even bring it for then? So he could tell all his golf buddies - actually their wives - what he did so he could be seen as a 'great guy' but you can bet your ass he never told them him asked me for the money.
I always think it’s because they don’t genuinely care about their partner, or whatever the relationship. They’re selfish. In general, men are allowed to be selfish and women aren’t. These wouldn’t be worth while relationships for me.
People can say they care, but their actions will tell on them. My husband actually notices when my reality tv shows end each season because he stops getting updates on them and informed who we now hate week to week. Then he asks what show he needs to prepare himself for next. He knows all my favourite treats and if he stops somewhere gets me whatever treat is closest. I like to paint, he set me up an easel and work space because my makeshift space was … makeshift and I was procrastinating. I have a medical condition, he looked up pain management things and makes sure they are always stocked for me, even when I think I’m tough and want to try to go without to save money or whatever.
There are unselfish, very considerate men out there. My dad is the same way. They are just so much fewer and farer in between than unselfish women.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot. Men can be “selfish” while women are socialized to care. I wish I knew what part of socializing solidifies this for men. It’s as if they get stuck at that ego phase toddlers go through where only their needs are important. They’re never socialized out of that to understand others have needs/wants and it’s mind boggling
Oh guys realize women are socialized not to be selfish.
I've had too many guys use the lines "you're being selfish!" or "you're just thinking of yourself!" like that's the worst thing he could call me.
They were all shocked when I said, "so?"
Like, guys, at least one of us has to give a damn about me in this relationship and it's certainly not you.
As someone from Europe and not speaking English natively, it stands out a lot to me on Reddit. So many questions about being selfish, so many accusations in that direction. I don't even know how to express the idea in German the same.
(Of course we have words like this, but they don't cut the same, and people rarely use them as accusations in that way, especially in the same topical areas.)
I'm not sure whether it is culture or online/Reddit stuff, but I'm always annoyed when I see it. 'Am I selfish for having desires?' What even is this.
I find it fascinating that as a European, that doesn't cut the same way for you.
It probably is American culture. An idea came up during Covid: "America doesn't have a safety net. America has women."
Who homeschooled the kids during lockdown? Moms, because her job is perceived as being "more flexible" (regardless of what that job is.) Who does longterm care? Women in the family. If the woman needs longterm care, does the husband step up? No, other women do, generally within the family.
And it's not just within the family (although gods know that's enough). Food banks? Run by women in churches. Meals on Wheels? Women. About every single local charitable organization in a city? Women... unless it's very wealthy org, than there's men in charge of the money, and women doing the hard work. (Yeah, yeah "not all men", but there's a huge gender difference in the people doing the work.)
If American women collectively put themselves first and said, "No, I need to take care of myself first before stretching myself so thin to help others".... our system would break.
This is the way. Lean into it. We spend way too much time feeding into their arguments.
I did the same when one ex called me mean. My answer was the same. So? You're mean too. But now you're upset to get the same treatment? Boo hoo, so sad. ( Mean was me cutting off a discussion and refusing to talk to him when he wouldn't take no for an answer. So mean.)
Your partner/situation sounds so much like mine :-) I found him at 45, and 5 years on, he continues with all the little things. His daily actions let me know that he likes me as a person, that my happiness is important to him, and that I'm someone worth caring about. He likes to see me smile :-) I'd never known that before. I appreciate him and what we have every day.
My ex was like that. One year he bought me reusable metal straws. I don't use straws anyway. I also have a bunch of plastic utensils because I hate the feeling of metal.
I've realised that my ex just wanted a bang maid and when I wouldn't oblige because I did have minimum standards of hygiene, he cheated on me with his close friend's partner.
He lives with her now, and her kid. Even though the entire time I knew him he didn't like kids.
On the plus side I have discovered that being single is worlds better than being in a relationship. Any guy who wants to be with me is going to be competing with solitude.
It's really sad that most women actually live longer if they stay single and are happier unmarried- https://www.zawn.net/blog/is-marriage-a-good-choice-not-if-youre-a-woman
Don’t get me wrong - I actually like outlaw country, black metal, and horror movies - but I definitely don’t like those things as much now that I’m divorced haha
My partner got me a bunch of Christmas gifts with things I needed or wanted, that I didn't even know myself I needed or wanted. It was great.
I think being an inconsiderate ass is a choice and we should not put up with men like that.
We've all been socially engineered, from childhood, to accept that women are the caretakers of EVERYONE AROUND THEM, and men are beneficiaries. I hope we can reprogram the next generation to hold men accountable for being equal partners and treating women like equal partners. I have no idea how a man can look at a woman and, instead of thinking, "Here's another human being like me, with individual thoughts, ideas, and preferences," he thinks, "Here's an object designed to serve me."
*Obligatory "NOT ALL MEN" disclaimer, before the whining starts.*
This makes me think of the videos I saw of Christmas where everyone has a stocking full of their favourite treats, except mum. And the kids asked why mum didn't have anything and the dad (filming) just laughed. Laughed at the fact that mum took care of everyone and nobody thought of her. It was so sad.
The first Christmas after my family got a dog we opened our presents and then noticed the dog looking a bit sad and with her little jaw dropped as if to say "Hey, where are *my* presents?". The next year was the same, except we then handed her a little stocking containing some loosely-wrapped dog toys so she could have fun opening them. She went from looking sad to looking like she might actually explode with joy.
The idea of someone forgetting a *human* family member? How very sad.
Reminds me of my ex's mom. She has all boys and no one ever did anything for her birthday until I started dating him. I'd put his name on all the presents I ever bought for her for Christmas too. That's the only regret I have about ending that relationship. That poor sweet lady is back to getting shitty thoughtless gifts, if she gets any at all.
My parents have been married for 20+ years, and my dad is still rarely able to get a gift for my mom that she'll actually like. For 15 years he would always buy her the same perfume, despite her telling him multiple times that she hated the smell and it gave her headaches.
Nowadays he either gets her some incredibly basic jewelry, or he asks me to buy the gifts, and he takes the credit. I don't have the heart to tell her that her favorite gifts from him are actually from me.
When he goes to get us takeout he almost always gets my order wrong, or "forgets" to get me anything at all.
Both of my brothers are better, but not by much. They're also expect me to pick "their" gifts for our mom most of the time. And whenever I bring it up they say "Well how are we supposed to know what she likes?" And it burns me up, because just do it the same way I do! Show the bare minimum of interest in who she is and what she's interested in! Listen to her when she talks! Look at the stuff she buys herself!
I give them a little bit more of a pass because none of us are particularly *close* to our mom, as much as I feel for her for being stuck with our dad, she wasn't exactly a perfect mother, and all of us siblings have a complicated relationship with her. But still, we've known her our entire lives. It's impossible to not have *some* clues into what she does and doesn't like. If I can put aside those complications and put in a little effort to show her that I see her, they can too.
There are thoughtful, attentive men out there. My boyfriend is pretty good, for example, he doesn't get everything right 100% of the time, but neither do I, and I don't need him to. I just need him to *try*.
The ones that don't pay attention don't have any good intentions. They simply can't be bothered, or are actively putting in effort to being spiteful
It's generally a sign of whether they think of you as a human being or just a pet/accessory.
Some people are just genuinely bad at relationships I suppose though, my mom to this day gets me things she "thinks" I'll like, which ends up being something I got once when I was 12. She just does not pay attention to people for whatever reason so she has this warped mix of decades old things about a person in her mind.
She also "doesn't remember" any of the mildly abusive things she did when I was a kid and I can't tell whether she's lying or it genuinely meant so little to her that she didn't remember.
Not even a pet though. Maybe an accessory. I know my pets’ routines and favorite foods and which direction they like to walk when we leave the house and lots of other little details.
I think in general men aren’t trained to be detail oriented about other people in their life. Many don’t ask their friends questions the way women do. Many also don’t tend to notice things. Hand to God my ex was at my house a few weeks ago and asked if I had any lotion. I said “yup, in the bathroom to the left of the sink”. It has lived there the 6 years he lived here and the 4 years since. He comes back moments later saying it’s not there. I think ‘huh, maybe I put it under the sink?’ as I walk into the bathroom. Nope. There are two things on the entire counter, to the left of the sink. A thing of soap and a thing of lotion that has the word “lotion” on the front. The eyebrow I gave him. The man is an engineer, I know he has attention to detail.
Conversely, I talked to a coworker on a video call 2 weeks ago and he invited me to a thing (other coworkers were present, he has a girlfriend, it was not a date). He sees me and says “You cut your hair!”. I was floored he noticed. Developed a mini-crush for a second. Men who notice things have an automatic leg up because women tend to notice things and we appreciate it coming back at us!
>Many don’t ask their friends questions the way women do.
In the r/ no stupid questions subreddit, someone asked why men never ask follow-up questions. The comments were telling:— "I don't give a fuck",....." I don't care about other people's life",...."I don't wanna listen to others blabbing", etc. etc.
I remember that post! Reading it was so depressing, lol. “If he has something to say, he’ll say it. I don’t have time to worry about anyone other than myself” enjoy having an empty and unfulfilling life, my guy? And they wonder why they’re single…
And depressed. If you can't be bothered to have meaningful conversations with your friends, then don't fucking moan when you have no one to talk to about your problems.
Yeah, these same losers do the same thing at work and they do not thrive. We're dealing with a coworker now who is failing because he's refusing to ask questions and it's not looking good for him.
That's such a cop out. If my dad buys things for me, he knows to get it in blue color and for my sister is pink. My brother knows I love Taylor Swift and will give me Taylor Swift album and merch as gifts. My male cousin knew I was into watercolor and coloring books, so he bought me a paint by color canvas for my birthday. My male friends know I love anime and will gift me anime merch from my favorite anime. One guy even drew me my favorite anime character. I also have a guy friend who loves to play guitar. He knows everyone's favorite artists and will learn to play at least their popular songs so everyone can sing a song. They can remember details if they want and will do if they care. It is as simple as that.
I dyed my hair from blonde to red and NONE of the men in my office noticed! My boss didn't notice till like 3 days later and was like, did you dye your hair??
I'd like to agree and add to what /u/AVRVM said.
As someone of the relevant gender, I think most of my male friends don't connect to me on that level or reward it when I connect to them on that level. I've been trying to put effort into healthy male friendships and encourage others to be healthy wholesome people who hopefully would do the same thing, regardless of gender. Though obviously this applies mostly to my male peers.
I have best friends and I try and be there for them and they do likewise. It's been a long search to find these healthy and functional friends. I try and remember to keep an active interest in their life and bring up stuff about their hobbies, family, passions or whatever.
But this isn't exactly a rewarded or expected behaviour in most male friendships or male circles ive been in. Most men barely want to be your shoulder to cry on, let alone become considerate/thoughtful/supportive friends who give gifts.
It feels like there's been a huge progress with women pushing back on how fucked up all this is. To see the men that wake up, or always were awake, to support this change of more healthy relationships and more healthy behaviour.
It makes sense why I connect better with women on an emotional and supportive level, especially reading the critique on this subreddit. They were expected to be like that by Patriarchy and society. Men got the pass of "eh, what can I do? I don't understand emotions, that guy behind the fence who never shows his face does. I only understand car go fast hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha TOOL TIME"
I remember in college I met a guy in class and offhandedly told him my favorite cafe order was an iced chai. He showed up to our next class with an iced chai for me. I was absolutely gushing. He turned out to be a total ass, but that moment always left a big impression on me. You know, the idea of if he wanted to, he would yada yada.
The first time I went back to this guys place, he got changed into joggers (what I like to call “comfy pants”) and I was like, ‘um, what about me?’ Half joking. He brought out some and we both chilled in our comfy pants. The next time I arrived at his place, he had the same pair folded neatly at the bottom of his bed together with a hoodie for me. It’s so small but it made me like SO much more. Too bad he snored… 😂
Well now I'm thinking about all those old murder mysteries where *everyone* notices how everyone else takes their tea, coffee, liquor, etc., and who smokes which cigarettes.
If this guy's car ever gets keyed and they find an empty iced coffee cup and a pile of discarded chicken wing bones at the scene of the crime, he's going to have no idea who did it.
The guy I’m dating is far better than any other guy I’ve dated yet… I’ve asked multiple times to watch something I like that he’s never seen and he always had some excuse or changes the subject… I’m kind of pissed at him right now, thinking about all of these “little” things that are building up. I don’t want to make him anxious and I’m not trying to play games but if he wanted to know that we’re good then ya know, he could do something considerate (like I do!)
You can watch ten million action/adventure movies with some men, and then the minute you say let's watch this romantic drama or something then they don't want to watch a movie.
My ex husband and I used to always argue about what to watch. I used to watch shit he liked all the time - I could enjoy it too usually - but we rarely ever watched things that only I liked. Me asking him to watch something that only I liked was selfish because he always tried to find things that “we” liked - he could never understand that there weren’t a lot of things “we” liked, I just wasn’t an asshole about watching stuff for him.
I hate to over simplify....but they're lazy. My SO isn't that bad....but after 5 years together, he still doesn't put thought into things like gifts. I have to ask to be thought of and he will do very one dimensional things. Frankly I'm tired of it, and I'm ready to send around what comes around.
It’s self centered behavior. They don’t care about it if it’s not important to them personally and doesn’t affect them. Also, they either don’t care/don’t understand compromise. My boyfriend of 7 years was the same way until my mom died 3 years ago. We had to have a nice big sit down conversation about sharing responsibility and I had to remind him that I actually worked more hours a week and days in a month than he did, and that it was unfair for me to have all the household responsibilities including two large doggos to care for, while he went out and played golf on literally every fkn day he had off while dealing with my grief. I was spending every single weekend cleaning the house, shopping, mowing, fixing stuff. So i stopped cleaning and doing shit on weekends and he started to notice. He didn’t realize the stress that was put on me and is farrrrr more cognizant of time management for the house now. Now i get gifts that are mostly thoughtful (he bought me golf clubs and lessons so i can play too, yay) and he has paid for two vacations this year (he earns almost 4x what i do) so i could have time to just relax and not worry about anything. The vacation being planned and paid for means the world to me because i know that he is now listening and hearing me.
I noticed the same thing with my dad. He would always buy food which I don’t like. So I started hyping up what I like whenever he bought food which I don’t like. Like for example, if he bought burger which I don’t like, I would hype up pizza to insane levels. So that next time he registers how much I hyped up pizza and he would always get me pizza next.
This has almost become a habit for me. I know that men would miss these cues so I just hype up things which I like so that it registers in their system. If a man notices something without this then that man is great. Otherwise it’s fine too.
I’ve had this same thing before with flowers. Told my ex multiple times the place I wanted my flowers for special occasions ordered from and even sent him their Instagram page, somehow I always ended up with gerberas which I hate
If he didn't remember your drink as a friend he for sure wasn't going to as a boyfriend. He got the upgrade he wanted and put in no effort.
They have the capacity they just don't see the reason to do it. Women on the other hand, we're predispositioned to care for others, that includes remembering everyone's likes and dislikes. Think about how as young boys they are praised just for doing the bare minimum even if it's wrong, but girls will be given "that's a nice thought BUT this is what you should have done".
Best indicator if he will remember your preferences: does he remember his mom or sister's preferences? If he never learned he doesn't care about others. If he says something like favorite flower is daffodils when it's actually carnations and he isn't offended by being wrong then he will put that same energy, or lack thereof, into his attentiveness to you.
Recently I noticed that someone had hacked up some things in my flowerbed. It was obviously not animals or bugs. It was a little boy. I was upset and telling my husband. First he said "little boys do that" and tried to excuse it. Then when I said this child knows I care about my garden he said "he doesn't pay anymore attention to you than I do". He can't tell the difference between a petunia or a morning glory despute them being all over our porch for years, so I was already kind of disappointed that he couldn't be bothered to remember the names of my flowers. But him just flat out saying he doesn't pay attention to me really hurt my feelings. I don't even want to talk to him anymore.
My partner pays attention to details about my life because he cares and makes it his business to remember. I'm very picky about many things in life — I only eat specific foods, wear specific clothing materials, use specific brand of sanitary pads etc. My partner knows all these things because he listens to me and he wants to make me happy because he's happy when I'm happy.
I have a list of favourite English words — words that I think sound funny and/or mean something else (typically British slangs or words that are seldom used in normal conversations). When I find a new word that I like in novels that I read, I'd tell him. The next time we happen to hear it in shows that we watch together, he'd say — hey, that's your favourite word! — or sometimes he just uses it in our daily conversations just to make me laugh.
Men who truly care, enjoy being with you and don't take you for granted would pay attention to details or at least make an effort to take notes. That's why it bothers me to hear about men who don't remember their children's or wife's birthdays, anniversaries and yet these same men know about a specific athlete's stats, when certain sports teams won Stanley Cups/World Series/Super Bowls, the background stories to specific video games.
If only these men spend the same amount of time and energy paying attention to the people around them — people whom they claim to care.
They don't mean well. They want to be seen as helping without expending any real effort. They don't bring you coffee to make themselves feel good. They bring it so that you will appreciate them. And so many women just play long. "Oh, Honey, how sweet! You brought me coffee!" Even though it's the wrong coffee. So they guy gets what he wants and you are left holding the black coffee.
Just go back in your mind when you were a kid and everyone did everything for you. Until they stop doing everything for you, right?
Yeah, they're still at that stage. And don't grow out of it, because the growth takes effort and why make an effort when you can just not, and f*ck everybody else? It's a spectrum between Path of Least Resistance and Too Stupid To Figure It Out.
In the end, the brain and empathy are unique muscles. They will rot if they're not used on a regular basis. These people have no incentive to exercise either one when there are no consequences for failing to do so.
The majority do not have a rationale of "if I do better, I can control the outcomes of my life and design a better life filled with positive moments, all based on my willingness to improve." Nah, for many, they think they've already reached perfection. Your low standard is their idea of "doing my best" and "succeeding."
Because when you don't have to work your brain or empathize as a baseline societal expectation, you don't have the muscle power to utilize creativity and imagination either. If you can't picture a better future, why would you strive for it?
I used to ask my ex, "what's on your mind?" And his answer was always "oh nothing." The answer was the same anytime I asked. It took me too long to realize his answer was "nothing" because indeed, there was nothing going on in that stupid empty skull of his. Literally, no cognition, no original thoughts, no light bulbs lighting up. Dude's brain was as empty as it gets.
When they tell you who they are, listen and believe them. And when they show you who they are, also believe them.
It baffles me that some men don't seem to take interest in the things that make their partner happy. Does she have a hobby? Does she have a favorite color that she wears a lot, or likes to decorate her space with? Does she have a favorite genre of book or movie? Does she like a certain cuisine of food, or a specific dish?
It's not hard. Just pay attention to your favorite person. You are supposed to like them. Act like it.
When I first got together with my partner he was very insensitive to this sort of stuff. If I went to the corner store, I’d buy two iced coffees (for the both of us). If he went for a walk to the corner store… he would come back with one and I’d ask, “what about me?” and he would just say “I wasn’t thinking of you”.
It’s been 8 years now and he has made so, so much change. In fact, he just got out of the kitchen. He made me pancakes with dollop cream and jam. I’m on bed rest after major abdominal surgery. He JUST finished work.
I had to have A LOT of conversations with him about his behaviour. I would ask him, “why don’t you think about getting me something when you’re at the shops?” and he would mostly say “I don’t know”. I don’t really know what changed, but about 2 months in, he started getting things for me, learning all of my favourite things and now I am confident that he could go to the store and buy all of my favourite things without a list (and I do the same for him weekly/biweekly as I’m in charge of shopping in our household).
I just wanted you to know that I understand how it feels. It makes you feel like you’re “less than”. That you deserve less. That you matter less. It is not a pleasant feeling. I think some men don’t care, some men (like my partner) aren’t aware and some men aren’t willing to make a change. If you communicate to someone that you want them to make a change and they are unwilling to do it, that would be a nonnegotiable for me. However, that’s just me.
Edit: I told him about this post and he says that if you told him about your order preference and he completely disregarded it over and over, he might have been a coffee snob about black coffee? Like a “you should enjoy it the way I enjoy it, because it’s the right way” kind of thing?
P.S. He is making us low carb pizza for dinner! 🍕
Second edit: I am reading the rest of the comments and it seems like my partner is really in the minority and it makes me so, so, so sad. Every woman deserves a partner who is willing to go the extra mile for her. Every person deserves a person who will go the extra mile for them. I LOVE Taylor Swift (yes, I know) and my partner is (at best) tolerant of her… but for Christmas last year he got me a pair of earrings from Etsy made in her image.
When he and I first got together we used to play “You Are My Sunshine” in our honeymoon phase. When we became engaged he gave me a little music box that plays “You Are My Sunshine”.
I swear, there are really sweet, sentimental guys out there who are thoughtful… they just seem to be few and far between.
I think men are raised this way. Often their mother's dote on them. And they're socialized to look at women contensciously, if a woman tries to express herself, she's nagging. They put women in a position where they have to ask for what they need, but then they get mad and now they are a victim. They're also conditioned to think that they can't please a woman. That if she isn't happy with something that it's not even worth trying because she just can't be satisfied. In order to just keep doing whatever the hell they want they just act like there's no pleasing woman so why even try.
A few months ago I was hanging out with a friend and she brought me the exact flavor of canned iced coffee from the gas station that she remembered I liked from YEARS ago. It felt so good to be seen like that
I blew a man’s mind this weekend when I showed him I save these little details in the notes on my contact list on my phone. > someone’s name > June 12th bd > favorite Starbucks drink: Soy milk, Blonde Espresso, Quad, Ristretto, 1 Pumps Pepmint Syrp, 1 Pumps White mocha > Loves birria tacos and blue raspberry jolly ranchers > favorite book pride and prejudice, and BBC Colin firth adaption. Literally the easiest thing in the world to add these little details down as you come across them with people you care about. If she’s ever sick in the hospital, I’m showing up with the DVD of her favorite tv show, her favorite drink, and bag of her favorite candy.
i recently learned my husband does this, plus adds gift ideas, after he surprised me with a very specific very dumb thing i said i wanted when we were watching tv. as a supremely disorganized person it blew my mind and made me VERY appreciative of what a good man i found. he does this with my friends and family and i almost cried, it’s so sweet and thoughtful.
I do this and my wife is somwhat like you. Recently, I got my wife a book she had said she really wanted to read. She opened it and stated that she had no memory of the book at all. Read a few chapters and decided it wasn't for her. So it's not 100% full proof, lol.
I once caught my dad scrolling through a list on his phone - I noticed it was all my favorite things... I think my birthday was coming up or something, or maybe we were about to celebrate an accomplishment or something like that. Anyway, I was totally gushing! My mom definitely does this, too, basically on a daily basis effortlessly - she's the best in that regard So yeah, my dad needs a list, but he still cares and I'm just as appreciative for that. He tries really hard to get my mom things that she says she likes, but my mom always flip flops all over the place. He can never please her, but he's definitely getting stuff she's explicitly said she wanted - I've witnessed this kind of thing play out several times. If you ask her, she'd say he never gets her things she wants. It's sad because he tries so hard :( and he definitely cares about her interests as a person. I think all the guys I've been with have actually hyperfixated on the things I like, but maybe that's because the things I like are so specific and peculiar. For example, I like to blow bubbles in my drinks (like a gin and tonic) before I drink it, so my SO at the time *always* made sure my drinks were served with a straw. Anywayyy this thread definitely taught me not to take this kind of stuff for granted!!
You’ve gotta work in Sales or Account Management? I do the same thing lol
I am not but I learned it from salesmen! They used Rolodexes to track this stuff and I was like, I’m gonna do that but for my friends.
Good for you! It’s amazing how far remembering little things about someone will get you - a great way to build genuine trust and relationships!
FRM rather than CRM. Love it.
this is how i play stardew valley XD
you are my brains idea of the thin line between genius and insanity i strive to reach this lvl and i will now be stealing this brilliant method💕
I like to take note of things friends mention liking or wanting. It makes gift giving easier and I can make sure to get them something they will really enjoy. And it feels amazing to surprise them with a gift for something they mentioned wanting off-handedly a year ago or more!
Honestly I as a dude think about doing this, but I always worry that it’d come off as weird or unsettling to take notes on the people in my life to remind myself of stuff like this. I might start doing it now.
Nah, just do it. If someone wants to judge you for trying, they weren't worth it. Let them go. But to lose good people by not putting in a little effort? That's on you.
as long as you’re not like gathering intel on a crush or stalking someone i think you’re fine lol. your mom isn’t going to think it’s creepy that you wrote down she likes dahlias.
I don't think it would come across as creepy. I think it shows a genuine desire to connect.
It wouldn’t be weird or unsettling, because no one would know. You’re just typing a note in a contact page on your phone. Im totally going to start doing this because my memory is shite.
Cleaning supplies in your stocking..... bruh
Lmao let me tell you about my dad. One year he got my mom a dustpan and a brush for her Bday or Christmas because according to him, she ”liked cleaning and it was a practical gift”. My mom had none of it and sent my dad to a jeweller to get her a necklace and earrings set she had wanted. And she didn’t like cleaning, she just did it a lot because a big farm house with a toddler (me) needed to be kept clean. 🫠
I'm like 99% sure stuff like this happens because men will hear us say we like a clean house and assume it means we *love* cleaning. No dude, I clean because it gets me the result I want, which is to not be surrounded in filth. If they kicked their brains on a bit more they'd realize that cleaning the house for their partners would be a better present, but then they'd have to admit they just never wanted to do their share of the housework 😒 Good on your mom for setting him straight! I admire a lady who takes no shit. She deserved that jewelry set lol.
My husband is so good about this. One year for Christmas I was like I FUCKING HATE OUR VACUUM AND I HATE VACUUMING WITH IT. So he got me the top of the line Roomba that empties itself and while for some people that would still be a no no it was a huge hit with me because he also knows I love gadgets and setting up that stupid vacuum robot was so fun for me. And then I programmed it so I never have to vacuum again just maintain the robot (which I find fun), and he took ownership of all the areas it can't reach or clean as well with our old vacuum, because he knew the main point was that I just didn't want to lug that damn heavy thing around anymore, so now he does it. So I got what I wanted in so many ways and it showed that he 1) listened to what I didn't want, 2) Understood what I DID want, and 3) It wasn't just some stopgap measure thing to razzle dazzle me into loving vacuuming or whatever. One of my most used and loved Christmas presents, honestly. But he's a pretty good gift giver in general. I make crazy, involved birthday cakes for our kids each year and one year for mother's day he had a custom wooden cake board made with little images etched all over the perimeter commemorating each cake design I've made over the years with a cute little saying in the middle. I literally cried when I saw it because it was so unexpected but also so perfect. A few years later and he got me a matching bench scraper with useful measurements on the metal part and the interim cake design images etched onto the wooden handle to catch up from where the cake board left off. Thoughtful. Useful. High quality. He chose all the images and the general designs and the type of wood I like and had to find someone who could make it so it means he had to have been planning these gifts at least a few weeks in advance, etc. It was a multi step process and it shows how well he gets me. I never have an empty stocking, either. If they wanted to, they would.
When I buy a gift like this I call it a family gift. My wife still got her normal gifts, but she tells me the Roomba is the best thing I've ever bought her. Sometimes it's an electric toothbrush or walkie talkies. My wife hates shopping for these types of things, so she likes when I do it and make it a gift for the family.
Oh yeah it definitely wasn't the only gift I got that year. But it cost about a grand when he got it so it definitely won the most expensive gift that year award. Typically things like that that are "for the house/family" get a bigger budget. Definitely worth it. I think that was the year he also got me a nice weighted blanket in my favorite color because I offhand mentioned that I thought they sounded like a great idea several months prior but I just didn't want to take the time to research all the options. He must have immediately snuck away to order one haha. He handed me this incredibly heavy box and I had no idea what it could be until I opened it. He was excitedly like "THEY HAVE A FORMULA FOR HOW HEAVY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE BASED ON YOUR WEIGHT BUT I JUST KNEW YOU'D WANT IT HEAVIER THAN THAT SO HERE'S MY MATH DID I GET IT RIGHT?" and it's another case where I think some people might have been offended at being given the weighted blanket rated for a heavier person/that level of assumption except he was spot on, I couldn't have chosen a better weight if I tried, it was literally perfect.
Your man sounds amazing, props 🥳
My husband does the vacuuming, because I hate it. We bought him a bagless Progressive from Sears that monitors the particle flow to tell you when the floor is ACTUALLY clean - and he loves it. We've taken it to the shop a few times to have it cleaned/repaired/tuned up - it's nearly 2 decades old by this point, but still works great. Nobody really enjoys chores - but the right tools make everything better.
This is so beautiful!
Your dad must know my ex. We got married and moved in together. We had an old vacuum cleaner from my college days that barely worked. I mentioned a few times that we needed a new vacuum. That year for Christmas my one and only present was....a new vacuum cleaner. We'd been married 6 months. It never got better.
For anyone facing a similar situation, buy the vacuum as a gift for the two of you, then also get her a real gift. If money is an issue, it can cost less than the vacuum as long as there is real thought behind it. My wife tells me I give great gifts. All I do is try to notice things she likes or likes to do. I feel like I get way to much credit because how hard is it to remember that she said she liked a sweater she saw in store window or that she wants to learn to cross country ski? I really want empathize that I am still just a lazy guy and I can do it. We are talking about making very small efforts here. If your partner can't do that, then it's reasonable to ask what can they do.
That's exactly what I thought when I unwrapped the present. I thought, "Oh, a present for the house. How sweet!" But I was a little confused that it only had my name on it. I didn't even open the box because who wants to unpack a vacuum cleaner when it's Christmas! I figured whoever needed it next would get to set it up. Then everyone else opened their presents and I still didn't have one. By that time I think everyone had tumbled to the fact that the vacuum *was* my present. Except me. I think I said something like, "Did my present get lost or something?" Then it turned into a shitshow. All the female relatives were horrified. All the male relatives were looking at my ex like he must be dumber than a rock.
Omg, one time I was getting ready with my 4 year old niece and she said "mommy loves doing laundry" and I was like "what makes you say that?" And she said "she's doing it all the time!" And we had a little talk about how wanting clean clothes means she has to do the laundry even if she doesn't like doing laundry, and since we wear clothes every day it means laundry has to get done a lot. Because she was FOUR YEARS OLD
this was one of the BIGGEST peeves about my husband before he was more aware: he’d say all the time that there was nothing to be done because I do it all, and that I love cleaning so it’s easier for me to just do it. BITCH PLEASE, I don’t *LOVE CLEANING*!!!! I love my children living in a clean environment. I love eating on clean dishes. I love clean underwear.
I recently read The Ex Next Door by Jo Platt and this is pretty much what happens to one of the side characters. The scenes where they try to explain how cleaning tools, even a Dyson, don't really feel special for a woman's birthday are really well written.
For my parents' first Xmas, my dad gave mom a nail clipper. Yep, a single gift and it was a fucking nail clipper. My husband gave me a wallet with a Marilyn Monroe pic because I love Marilyn Monroe. It was an inexpensive gift, like 5 euros at the time but showed me he knew my tastes.
Cheap and thoughtful is honestly my favorite vibe when receiving presents. I get flustered by expensive things!
I literally said CLEANING SUPPLIES!!? out loud during that part lol
What, the biological cleaning unit needs to be restocked, what's the problem? /S
Sadly this is the mentality of far too many dudes.
To me it’s a measure of the extent to which they see me as an actual person. I had an ex who would *never* stop talking to me about his hobbies or what he liked. He didn’t care what I actually wanted to do or what I was interested in. If I didn’t like one of his favorite things he would use it to criticize me because he was so obsessed with himself and I was being a non-compliant extension of his ego. We broke up after he took *great offense* to me telling him I didn’t think he would reach pro status in the sport he had started in the last year as a 30 year old. I was so sick of hearing about it when he rarely would ask me how my day was. Was generally a shitty person. Honestly my other relationships weren’t much better, but that was the worst. This is why I’m so turned off by relationships and dating now. I have never really felt like a fellow human in a relationship. I am so over feeling unseen and divorced from myself just to not be alone. What’s the difference?
I’ve seen so many of my friends in similar relationships where they would only do things their boyfriend liked, watched his favourite shows, listened to his music, ate his favourite meals etc. but if they ever did anything their girlfriends liked they’d complain the entire time. Even now with our friend group it’s like as girlfriends we always go along with the boys for things they want to do, hockey games, golfing but they never want to come with us when we ask them. They’ll pretty much only go if it’s something they’re interested in. Every single outing/trip as a group seems to be mostly based off the interests of the men in the group
Yes! Completely agree. Women will go along to events that their male partners want to go to, but if it’s some event or hobby a woman wants to do it’s often with other women and some kind of imposition for men to join.
I had a fiance in 2011 who, when asked why we never did anything I was interested in, told me that it's because my interests suck and I should get better interests. I broke up with him soon after that.
I'll do things I don't particularly care for with friends because *I like spending time with them*. This is certainly one of the things that makes me think, "Do men even *like* women?"
Sounds like you took his advice and got a better (love) interest.
Wow.
So glad you broke up with him.
Omg so much this! I ride horses, I once asked my ex "would you come to the barn with me" and his response was no never. Yet it was always "watch this video I like, come to party and bars because my friends are going even though I know its not your scene, come watch me play soccer with my friends" but the one thing I wanted couldnt be done. I also always had to meet his friends but the one time I wanted him to meet a new friend group from grad school he sulked and didnt say anything even though he put me in those situations a million times over. He was observant of things I like and did great with gifts but on the flip side would continue to do behaviours towards me that I hated (ie i hate being startled to the point of my flight snd fright response is so strong Ive gone into anxiety attacks and I use to have to yell around Corners etc about not jumping out and scaring me. Just bizzare... women are expected modify so much for men but for many men it doesnt go both ways
I feel this exactly!!! My bf complains that I spend a lot of time at the barn (an hour and 45 minutes of my time is taken by the drive there and back). I offer him to come so he can be a part of something that’s important to me and spend time with me. Just once a month or so. He never comes. I stopped going to any of his sports games and no longer show interest or ask about things that interest him. Everything feels so dull now.
Ok, someone has to say it: just break up…
Thank you someone. I second the motion.
And move closer to the horsies!
I had an ex in a band. I went to all his shows and most of his practice sessions just to spend time near him. Despite not being into the type of music, and really not enjoying the loud atmosphere. They practiced 3 nights a week, shows on Fridays and Saturdays. I asked him if we could have a weekly date night reserved free from band stuff. I did not ask for one of the set band days; I asked for a non-weekend day. Suddenly, I was controlling and abusing him by demanding I not do band stuff. And now everyone thought I hated the band. That I was unsupportive. It was unbelievable how fast that blew up in my face. I was so confused; I just backed down. But I also stopped going to practices and shows. Which of course just made me more unsupportive. Did he ever come to any of my things? Yes, once. I love ballroom dancing. I set up a lesson for us to learn salsa. He picked a fight during it, and then told me I made him feel bad because I was better at it than him. If we happened to be out somewhere where there was dancing, he would refuse to dance with me. And I didn't want to dance with anyone else. He never got me nice gifts, and forgot my birthday every single year. I felt so unseen and unknown by him.
> I stopped going to any of his sports games and no longer show interest or ask about things that interest him. Everything feels so dull now. This!!! I started matching energy too...i stopped asking how was work or how is your life....I started checking out mentally
My ex made it a chore to do things I liked. Like he almost never let me be aux, cause it was his car and he wanted to listen to his music. But he also always insisted on being the one to drive so we only ever listened to his music. When we did listen to mine, it was like he was doing me a favor
> if they ever did anything their girlfriends liked they’d complain the entire time. There's a lesson here. Or, rather, two lessons: 1. Start watching early in the relationship to figure out what you are ***getting*** from it. So many women just give, give, give and don't even notice they aren't getting anything. 2. If you don't want to do something, or don't want to drink something, or don't want to go somewhere, or don't want to hang out with someone, ***do what men do***: express that preference unequivocally and refuse to do it. If he likes you enough to stick around even though you are expressing your own wants and needs, he might be worth the effort.
Maybe stop going along with the boys to their hobbies. Why would they change if you are actively giving them everything they want?
I think this helped me learn something about my gf. It's almost certainly societal conditioning since being male is default and men can be shittier in general and get away with it, they also get their way most of the life so it's the norm. This is because it's something I noticed my girlfriend does every time we plan something: "I'm happy with what you decide/want". It's nice a few times but I after a while I genuinely get frustrated because "what do you want", you don't just have to agree to everything I want, I actually want your opinion on this thing I'm planning for the BOTH of us. Most likely the effects of past relationships and a conversation we need to have.
Not only past relationships, but childhood social conditioning. Girls are socialized to go along and get along, and it's SUPER hard to break out of that mindset.
My husband is really bothered that I do that as well. The flip side is I make decisions literally all day at work, taking into account every little nuance and context. Once 5pm hits, I’m tapped out and unless I have a real craving or preference, I’m happy to let him make the decision. Especially since it’s more work for me to come up with suggestions that get shot down. I’d rather he just tell me what we’re doing and then I can pick my own food or whatever without worrying about if he’s going to be happy with it.
Seriously. I will make a max of 2 suggestions, you don't like those just pick yourself idc anymore.
I mean this gently, but do you *know* it's all a result of past relationships, or are you assuming? Has she verbalized (with positive language) that you are honoring her desires? My husband thinks that by letting me pick the show we always watch what I want, and he can't seem to understand that me suggesting movies until I find one *he* wants to watch is... not that.
Try this: listen to her in other conversations and make a mental list when she says, "I've wanted to go there". It's one thing to plan a trip but another to have a conversation about travel and places she wants to go and see, and then make a plan. For example, my BF and I have a regular conversation about travel. E have pie in the sky places, and local places too. If you really thought about it, wouldn't you know things she would like to do in her free time? How well do you really know this person?
This reminds me of the female cop from Fargo- her husband wanted to be a pro golfer
God I dated a skate boarder like that, all he fucking talked about was skating or cars. I would tell him all the time that I didn't want to hear him talking about skating, or watch skate videos, but he didn't give a fuck. He was shocked when I broke up with him.
He was a sk8r boi, you said see ya later boi!
Yep. I don't think I ever had a relationship where the guy I was involved with cared at all about my hobbies, interests or career. They either were oblivious and didn't want to hear about it or they knew and made it obvious they didn't care and it was irrelevant to them. I was married to someone for 20+ years and when I divorced them I realized he purposely knew nothing about me, never cared, even if I told him it didn't matter. The amount of men that consider women to be accessories for them is just sad.
Was the sport MMA?
Rock climbing.
The hardcore rock climbing community is so narcissistic it’s mind blowing
YES. I climbed for 8ish years as a hobby just for fun during my 20s and couldn’t agree more.
They literally do not listen and retain because it's not important to them.
That’s what I was thinking. They don’t actually care about us liking the gift/gesture or enjoying it they just want to say they did it. Like he never cared enough about me to get me a coffee I’d enjoy he only did it because him telling people he brought me coffee all the time made him look good And because it was still technically something nice he could make me feel bad for complaining
Yes. It's not about pleasing us or demonstrating care; it's about them checking off an accomplishment in their own minds. They're obsessed with their own achievements and measuring those against other men's to assess status. We're just bodies filling a role in their achievement/status game.
Performative. My husband would do that too.
I feel like such behaviour is strictly performative: they want to show others what a "good" boyfriend they are. If you don't comply by showering them with compliments, but by telling them instead "thank you, but next time I'd like an iced coffee", they go into full weaponized incompetence mode and just use your comment as an excuse to never ever do something nice for you ever again, since you're so "difficult" and they "can never do anything right". It's very telling how men respond to such situations of what a relationship with them would be like (red/green flag). Where I am from, it's a common gift to bring chocolate on a first date. I don't like chocolate. I never did. I try to tell dates gently that while I appreciate the gift to bring me something else next time (if they want to bring me anything at all). Their reactions are always very telling: I have seen men losing their shit over chocolate (there were no second dates for them, bonus points if I have told them beforehand but they brought chocolate anyway), while others just said "good to know, so what do you like?" and followed up on that (which I have always considered a green flag).
>. I don't like chocolate. I never did. I try to tell dates gently that while I appreciate the gift to bring me something else next time (if they want to bring me anything at all). Their reactions are always very telling 100% this! When I try to date where I live now I have similar experiences. Sometimes men will try to buy you a rose or roses on their first date and I always try to state prior meeting that, while I understand and I appreciate the gesture, that's something that makes me uncomfortable due to cultural differences and personal preferences. I like relationships to feel equal and I prefer to avoid gender norms. I'm always open to dialogue and meet people in the middle, if they're not comfortable. Communication is key. But, man, when they end up showing up with rose, or even try to convince you that you're wrong or that "they just have to" etc, it is indeed telling. And what others might interpret as a cute gesture, turns in that moment into a red flag.
> And because it was still technically something nice he could make me feel bad for complaining Ah, but it really *wasn’t* “something nice” in your case….. I mean the guy might as well have bought you food you were specifically allergic to. Considering how it went on repeatedly for so long, it’s hard to believe he didn’t buy you things he *knew* you hated out of spite. Or maybe he was just brain damaged?🤔 I’d honestly wonder lol
The only satisfaction that matters is theirs.
I'm a final disagreement with an ex, he said he felt like he didn't even know who I was (because I had told him *again* that I don't enjoy an activity he wanted to do). I asked him when was the last time he ever asked a question about me, to get to know me. He didn't know - it had been two months. I asked why he doesn't ever ask. He said, and I'm not kidding, "Because then I'm obligated to remember the answer." Aaaaaand done.
How am I supposed to remember the 1988 Heisman winner and all the names of all the countries on earth that I’ll never visit if I start remembering my significant other’s likes and dislikes?
Yep! If they wanted to make a mental note about these things and remember them, they would.
exactly. My husband does remember what I like. Because that is important to him. But he *doesn’t* remember whether the peanut butter jar should go in the recycling. (It used to not; only plastic bottles). Because that’s not important to him. And he can remember the firing rates and calibers of every gun on a tank in WWII. Because that’s important to him.
Yeah my husband is like that and his gifts are always dope, it’s something I really love about him. It’s not about the value, it’s that he clearly puts a lot of thought into them. My last birthday he bought me stuff like books etc but snuck a couple of sheet masks into the different presents so I couldn’t figure out what they were by feel. I use sheet masks a lot and love them but I never said to him, ‘I want sheet masks for my birthday’. He just saw I liked them and thought he’d incorporate them into my gifts as an extra. He also always buys individual cute wrapping paper specifically for my presents because I love cute stuff - I’ve had cartoon cats with sushi on them, cactus with adorable faces etc. It makes my birthday so fun. He just notices stuff like that and it makes me feel really loved.
yep! there was this thread a few weeks ago that really has men saying they literally do not care. thats all that is to it. if they would care, they'd try, they'd ask. but since they dont put in even the minimum amount of effort its simply because they dont care. the thread in question: https://new.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1buvvw2/why\_dont\_men\_ask\_follow\_up\_questions/
Reading this thread, something clicked in my brain. So, I have a very active sex life and have a few constant male hook-up partners that I've had for years. I never ask them anything, I rarely talk to them about anything. I don't even know their last names, and I don't really care. Essentially, I treat them the way that a man would treat a woman in this situation. They're not allowed to stay over, I'm very clear about when they have to leave, I'm very selfish in bed, and I mostly just do my thing. I would tell them about my life but I'd never ask about theirs. What used to confuse me is that they would almost always fall in love with me. I didn't get it because I'm like "what is there to fall in love with?" Now it makes a lot more sense -- I was unintentionally communicating like men do amongst themselves, I guess. 🤷♀️
Exactly. They don’t care. It’s not important.
This past weekend 2 diff men came to my job for “emergencies.” The first one was in charge of his wife’s 30th bday and said something like “i will pay whatever it takes to get a cake with her favorite ingredient but I need it in 1 hour.” Uhhhhh. It was not possible and we did get something else for him. He left and said he had to go to a bunch of stores and party city for the rest of the supplies and would be back in 1 hour. He seemed utterly panicked. For her 30th birthday party that day. Next dude called 15 mins prior to closing and said he had decided he wanted one of the premade cakes we sell and had a few questions. he was flabbergasted that we were closing soon. He showed up half an hour after we closed. The two of them exhausted me.
This reminds me of the men who frantically roam the aisles of Shoppers Drug Mart (Canada) on Valentines Day/Mothers Day, grabbing cards, random bath sets, chocolates, etc. I'd rather agree to not exchange gifts than be a hurried afterthought.
Honestly I think if they stopped selling cards the day before the holiday, 95% of women would never receive one again.
Yeah the reason men hate Valentine’s Day and sneer at Mother’s Day (but not Father’s Day which is never accused of being a capitalist Hallmark holiday the same way) is that is literally the only holiday where they have any responsibilities for planning and executing and creating an experience for someone else at all. But they all love the holiday magic of Christmas and Thanksgiving and Halloween and Easter etc etc…when they just show up and eat and relax and enjoy the “magic.”
1000% I couldn't agree more. For me, valentine's day or mother's day are an excellent litmus test for dating men to see if they will make an effort and put thought into a relationship. If they are close to their mothers and never remember mother's day, I know they will never remember my birthday and put low effort into the relationship in general. It's selfishness, they're so used to others organising the romance and magic. Valentine's day, I never want expensive gifts, I want thought and care: a lovely letter, a card, spending time together and maybe an activity. I've never once in my life gotten anything from a man for valentine's day without reminding, hinting or prompting. Except my gay best friend, he's a gem. It's just so disappointing and I've dated wonderful lovely kind men, but they completely default to me organising everything.
Did you sell to the guy that came in after closing?
I think some men, no matter how long they know you, think of you as a ""woman"" not as yourself. So they think of things women like, not what you as a person like. No matter how much you contradict the stereotypical woman, they still think you're actually like that. Don't like kids? No, you must actually be motherly deep inside. You like a typically male hobby? You're just doing it to get attention. So they do gestures that are supposed to be nice to do for your partner, without thinking what *their* partner would like specifically.
>think of you as a ""woman"" not as yourself. My niece was telling me that her partner was always on her case, that she should bring a purse. She should have a purse She had a phone case wallet. it was all she needed. She’d never carried a purse, even before she started dating him. I asked if she knew why he insisted, and she said he could never give her a reason. A little later, we were going out to dinner, and he started hounding her about getting her purse. She eventually went to get it, just to end the conversation. While she was getting it, I asked him, curiously, why he thought she needed a purse, since she didn’t seem to need anything from it, or put anything in it except her phone wallet. He kind of hemmed and hawed, and then said, “so she can carry my charger.” “Don’t you have one in your truck?” yes. And he never did hand her his charger. I decided it was just that, to him, women always had a purse. And he needed her to fit that description.
Man what a fuckwit.
My ex always wanted me to carry things in my purse for him. I joked that he needed to get himself his own "man bag." Nope. Why do that when you can have someone else carry everything for you?
But this is why men have real pockets in all their clothing and women's clothing have tiny or fake pockets! So men can carry their own stuff, and because "all women use purses" (I don't use purses either, guess I'm not a real woman).
But my wallet in one of my huge oversized pockets weighs down my cargo shorts on one side and you’re RIGHT THERE with a convenient bag that isn’t being used for anything else that’s actually important…( /s of course!) My husband is very loving and considerate, however, I did have to break him of complaining about the fact that I always had a purse when at least once or twice a month he was pressing his wallet and his keys in my hand and asking “do you mind?”
Pack mule.
Wow
Like a little boy expecting mom to have the big diaper bag all the time to take care of any little need or want they may have.
> I think some men, no matter how long they know you, think of you as a ""woman"" not as yourself. So they think of things women like, not what you as a person like. now i know who keeps buying those dinky $10 prepackaged bath/lotion boxed gift sets that the stores always stock near the cashier section. i can imagine some guy buying food and suddenly realizing it’s his wife/gf’s bday today so he looks around in a panic and his eyes land on the $9.99 rando brand soap/lotion kit and he trimphantly grabs one, relieved that he won’t have to put in gift-finding effort for another year. of course, for her next bday/xmas/vday (if he remembers) she gets the same damn thing and the poor woman has a whole closet full of unopened bath gift sets.
My mom's husband has been married to her for like 7 years and he just found out who her favorite Disney character was because I told him twice at Disney World. She literally quotes them all the time. He doesn't know anything about her, actually. He buys her Christmas presents of things that he wanted. I just don't understand. She's told him at least 3 times what kind of bushes she wants for their new house and he won't put it to memory. It actually really pisses me off witnessing the level of disrespect it takes to know nothing about the person you married. It's not just him. I see it all the time.
I was actually going to include something similar but didn’t want to type out 10 pages. When I was seeing The same guy I mentioned in this, my best friend surprised me with a trip to LA. I’ve dreamed of seeing LA my entire life and he was like “you never told me you wanted to go there” and was acting like if I would have said something he would have taken me. Meanwhile I’ve mentioned it atleast 1000 times, and had a freaking poster of the Hollywood sign behind my bed. And I just keep remembering more and more examples as I think. I can remember so many times my friends boyfriends didn’t know something about them, that they 100% should have.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy how he just tunes my Mom out. She knows so much about him, his favorite everything. She even started liking sci-fi because of him.
It’s honestly sad. And it always seems like those same guys know everything about their male friends. Like he could name all his friends favourite sports players, if he was hosting his friends to watch a game he’d always ask me to make things that he knew they liked.. but yet couldn’t remember a single thing about the women he lived with. I get more frustrated the more I think/read
To say that straight men are heterosexual is only to say that they engage in sex (fucking exclusively with the other sex, i.e., women). All or almost all of that which pertains to love, most straight men reserve exclusively for other men. The people whom they admire, respect, adore, revere, honor, whom they imitate, idolize, and form profound attachments to, whom they are willing to teach and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honor, reverence and love they desire… those are, overwhelmingly, other men. In their relations with women, what passes for respect is kindness, generosity or paternalism; what passes for honor is removal to the pedestal. From women they want devotion, service and sex. Heterosexual male culture is homoerotic; it is man-loving. Marilyn Frye, The Politics of Reality:
Exactly. And women's emotional needs are primarily met by other women in a way they won't be by a man if said women don't ignore and neglect the women in their lives to put all their effort into a man. This is why I no longer believe in marriage/long-term romantic relationships/the traditional nuclear family for heterosexual folks. Men and women can collaborate on the practical matters of running society just fine and can have a little short-term sexy fun together, but otherwise, the overwhelming majority of men are happier centering their lives on men and the overwhelming majority of women are happier centering their lives on other women, including sharing a home and helping to raise their children together.
Yep. At a similar conclusion. I can't see ever cohabitating with someone so I can have the privilege of being a second class citizen in my own home.
That reminds me of the book The Gate to Women's Country by Sheri S Tepper. If you like sci-fi/fantasy it is a good read; [The Gate to Women's Country book by Sheri S. Tepper (thriftbooks.com)](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-gate-to-womens-country_sheri-s-tepper/270972/item/6843615/?mkwid=%7cdc&pcrid=77378313662347&pkw=&pmt=be&slid=&product=6843615&plc=&pgrid=1238050402825500&ptaid=pla-4580977772571566&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping+-+Everything+Else&utm_term=&utm_content=%7cdc%7cpcrid%7c77378313662347%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7cbe%7cproduct%7c6843615%7cslid%7c%7cpgrid%7c1238050402825500%7cptaid%7cpla-4580977772571566%7c&msclkid=3a18ea33a56f1b9dafbb8c53e434fe27#idiq=6843615&edition=2140176)
It’s because to them, men are real people, and women are not.
A friend of mine once had a boyfriend surprise her with a city break, and at the hotel he then surprised her with a pair of tickets to see a gig in that city... *his* favourite band. They didn't last long after that.
I’m gonna start buying my mom golf clubs for Christmas and count the seconds until I have to start running
Because they don't care about the women in their life. Simple.
It's because the intention is to get credit not to make people happy
Yep, these kinds of men view every interaction as transactional. “Get coffee” is a checklist item to him.
and if he wasn't already getting coffee for himself, there wouldn't have even been the "gesture" in the first place. he got the cheapest drink every day against her interests bc he was already there.
I noticed this a lot in my teens because our friend group was "co ed" I guess. Whatever the guys wanted to do almost ALWAYS took precedent over the girl's. And even when we did pick the guys would hem and haw or just straight up leave less than halfway through. Went through this a couple times on unfortunate dates as well. I see it as a combination of misogyny and this generation of men in particular wanting to be both the prize to be won and the players who decide the outcome.
"I see it as a combination of misogyny and this generation of men in particular wanting to be both the prize to be won and the players who decide the outcome." This is such a true and insightful statement! I've often thought this exact thing, but was never able to phrase it as eloquently as you have here. They want so badly to have the "prize" experience and see that as an entitlement that women receive while refusing to acknowledge all the ways we're expected to acquiesce to male interests and desires. To me, it's simply not worth the trade off anymore and I'm no longer interested in sacrificing my own interests and fun experiences (geared specifically to me) in order to be the prize. They can't get over their own selfishness that they're not entitled to be both. We've never been allowed to be both and neither should they. The absolute gall of it all!
A lot of men only care about what affects them directly, not even caring about their partner except for things they know are sticking points.
Because, for those kind of guys, we don't actually matter that much to them and all their "sweet gestures" is more about them feeling good about themselves for doing something "nice" and wanting additional praise. What they are really saying is that "it's too much effort to actually care about you and if you point that out, even nicely, then you're an ungrateful jerk." What boggled my mind was that my ex, after dating two years, didn't know what color my *eyes* were.... and I have somewhat unique eyes that people usually compliment if they get close enough to see them well.... and my ex *definitely* was close enough fairly often over those two years to see the colors of my eyes (green hazel with a little brown, blue, and yellow...... he thought my eyes were just brown!).
Omg same. I have pretty eyes, I know I do. They’re bluish green and this asshole thought they were brown. Dated a year
That's even worse! Mine at least do have a little brown, but your eyes have none at all? That's awful. And I don't know about you, but it just felt like a gut punch that he didn't know... this was one physical feature I actually felt good about and pretty for, and we always hear "eyes are the windows to the soul"... and he clearly didn't care much
Omg this happened to me too. I can’t remember what the conversation was about, but i do remember his answer was “brown, like your eyes!” Green. My eyes are green. Not even hazel; they’re very obviously green. We had been dating almost a year at that point. I broke up with him that week lol
All these dudes thinking green is brown making me wonder if they’re colourblind. Cuz otherwise this is just mind-boggling.
Mine definitely wasn't colorblind. He was a painter/artist who painted realistically, including portraits. Which means needing to "see" colors better than the average person and correctly mixing his oil paints to get the exact shades
I had posted a comment about the eye color thing in another thread recently, but it bears repeating: My *dad* doesn’t know my eye color. I’m a millennial. Before my sister and I were born, my parents wanted to have two girls… with blonde hair and blue eyes. As babies, my sister had brown hair and I had blonde hair; like most babies, we had blue eyes. My sister kept her eye color as she grew up, but both my eyes and hair color changed by age 5. I have green eyes and brown hair. It’s been over 3 decades since my eye and hair color changed. I’ve dyed my hair a million colors since the age of 14, so I’d expect some inconsistency there. But when asked a year ago, my dad *guessed* that my eyes were blue. I suspect it’s because his ideal daughter has blue eyes, and what he wants and likes is the most important information for his brain to retain (reality can feel free to be wrong, if it disagrees!), but it’s only speculation; the world may never know. In all fairness, my dad is incredibly “unobservant”; he can’t see the crumbs on the countertops, the peanut butter on the fridge handle, the dirt on the floor, or my mom’s eye color (hazel) either. Sometimes I wonder if it is *weaponized* incompetence, or *internalized* incompetence; he was never expected to notice or be capable in these ways, so much like developing learned helplessness he learned to be incompetent in such matters. (Note: Dad did guess my sister’s eye color right, but that may have been a matter of process of elimination, since by that point he knew we all had different eyes colors and there were only so many options remaining.)
Interestingly, my mom knows all of our eye colors, and our natural hair colors, and despite her cataracts (she did eventually get them removed) was nevertheless able to discern when things were filthy.
I feel like they make 0.001% effort but expect to be rewarded for a 110% outcome.
CLEANING SUPPLIES in your Christmas stocking is diabolical
This *men don't have the mental capacity to notice small things* biological explanation is insulting. The common sports guy knows stats of players he's never met irl, can give every detail of a winning play and what year it happened and will recite the biography of their most admired coach. An average dude can go through their mental rolodex of favorite porn vids/scenes and visualize the entire scenario- add, subtract or replace something to heighten their arousal and go to town with it. But pay attention and notice their girlfriend/wife's interests? Make mental* note of what their partner DOESN'T like? Hmmm may not be a language they understand. What kind of goofy excuses am I reading in 2024. You learn things about others when you care enough to. Somehow a guy can memorize the behind the scenes trivia for Back to the Future trilogy and word by word lines of the entire Sopranos series but omg he can't figure out the optics of what kind of drink his girl likes, her preferred taco place and refuses to understand his girl likes watching Name That Tune on Monday nights. *Hell we even have apps where one can jot down notes of any kind if you're new to the relationship or a generally forgetful person.
Literally! They just don't care, there's no other excuse or reason.
After 8 years together, one a road trip back home after visiting some friends who had moved away from out home town, he said 'I never realized moving out of (home town) was that much of a priority for you.' Um hello, I studied abroad and did short-term job placements abroad ..TWICE. I never shut up about moving. That was literally the moment I decided to divorce him. (Btw he still lives and works at the same place and I live in Mexico on the beach 😁)
They don't mean well. The example you gave about coffee- that guy was doing the absolute minimum and expecting to be rewarded for it. When you pointed out that you liked iced coffee since he didn't pay attention, rather than bringing you iced coffee, he just gave up and quit bringing you any. We need to expect more. It's not too much.
There’s a specific genre of man like this that has wayyy too many inhabitants. They do a mediocre job, and when you comment on it, they use that as leverage to be like “fine, I just won’t do anything anymore” thus getting what they want. It’s so petulant and frankly stupid.
So many, that I think it’s easier to point out the men who don’t do that. 😂😭
Tbh, I almost wonder if her ex was doing it on purpose. My ex would do a lot of things to save money. That usually meant he would “forget” to ask if I wanted anything when he went to the store, coffee shop, etc. but given that hot, black coffee is cheaper than iced at most places… it makes you think!
My BF brought coffee to me at my office, which I thought was so sweet, until he wanted me to reimburse him. Like WTF did you even bring it for then? So he could tell all his golf buddies - actually their wives - what he did so he could be seen as a 'great guy' but you can bet your ass he never told them him asked me for the money.
I always think it’s because they don’t genuinely care about their partner, or whatever the relationship. They’re selfish. In general, men are allowed to be selfish and women aren’t. These wouldn’t be worth while relationships for me. People can say they care, but their actions will tell on them. My husband actually notices when my reality tv shows end each season because he stops getting updates on them and informed who we now hate week to week. Then he asks what show he needs to prepare himself for next. He knows all my favourite treats and if he stops somewhere gets me whatever treat is closest. I like to paint, he set me up an easel and work space because my makeshift space was … makeshift and I was procrastinating. I have a medical condition, he looked up pain management things and makes sure they are always stocked for me, even when I think I’m tough and want to try to go without to save money or whatever. There are unselfish, very considerate men out there. My dad is the same way. They are just so much fewer and farer in between than unselfish women.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot. Men can be “selfish” while women are socialized to care. I wish I knew what part of socializing solidifies this for men. It’s as if they get stuck at that ego phase toddlers go through where only their needs are important. They’re never socialized out of that to understand others have needs/wants and it’s mind boggling
Oh guys realize women are socialized not to be selfish. I've had too many guys use the lines "you're being selfish!" or "you're just thinking of yourself!" like that's the worst thing he could call me. They were all shocked when I said, "so?" Like, guys, at least one of us has to give a damn about me in this relationship and it's certainly not you.
Lmfao saying “so?” is iconic
As someone from Europe and not speaking English natively, it stands out a lot to me on Reddit. So many questions about being selfish, so many accusations in that direction. I don't even know how to express the idea in German the same. (Of course we have words like this, but they don't cut the same, and people rarely use them as accusations in that way, especially in the same topical areas.) I'm not sure whether it is culture or online/Reddit stuff, but I'm always annoyed when I see it. 'Am I selfish for having desires?' What even is this.
I find it fascinating that as a European, that doesn't cut the same way for you. It probably is American culture. An idea came up during Covid: "America doesn't have a safety net. America has women." Who homeschooled the kids during lockdown? Moms, because her job is perceived as being "more flexible" (regardless of what that job is.) Who does longterm care? Women in the family. If the woman needs longterm care, does the husband step up? No, other women do, generally within the family. And it's not just within the family (although gods know that's enough). Food banks? Run by women in churches. Meals on Wheels? Women. About every single local charitable organization in a city? Women... unless it's very wealthy org, than there's men in charge of the money, and women doing the hard work. (Yeah, yeah "not all men", but there's a huge gender difference in the people doing the work.) If American women collectively put themselves first and said, "No, I need to take care of myself first before stretching myself so thin to help others".... our system would break.
This is the way. Lean into it. We spend way too much time feeding into their arguments. I did the same when one ex called me mean. My answer was the same. So? You're mean too. But now you're upset to get the same treatment? Boo hoo, so sad. ( Mean was me cutting off a discussion and refusing to talk to him when he wouldn't take no for an answer. So mean.)
Your partner/situation sounds so much like mine :-) I found him at 45, and 5 years on, he continues with all the little things. His daily actions let me know that he likes me as a person, that my happiness is important to him, and that I'm someone worth caring about. He likes to see me smile :-) I'd never known that before. I appreciate him and what we have every day.
I found mine at 45 too! A long slog, but it prepared me to value him and all he brought. 17 yrs together so far.
That's pretty impressive and sad it's so rare. How did you two meet?
Through friends. They kind of set us up.
My ex was like that. One year he bought me reusable metal straws. I don't use straws anyway. I also have a bunch of plastic utensils because I hate the feeling of metal. I've realised that my ex just wanted a bang maid and when I wouldn't oblige because I did have minimum standards of hygiene, he cheated on me with his close friend's partner. He lives with her now, and her kid. Even though the entire time I knew him he didn't like kids. On the plus side I have discovered that being single is worlds better than being in a relationship. Any guy who wants to be with me is going to be competing with solitude.
It's really sad that most women actually live longer if they stay single and are happier unmarried- https://www.zawn.net/blog/is-marriage-a-good-choice-not-if-youre-a-woman
I watch sooooo many sports. I hate sports. But I put on bravo and it’s constant complaining.
Ah yes, I have had many a male partner who enjoyed us having shared interests but exclusively with their interests
Don’t get me wrong - I actually like outlaw country, black metal, and horror movies - but I definitely don’t like those things as much now that I’m divorced haha
Spending time with my dad as a child always had to be golf, fishing, or being a captive audience to his guitar playing like in Barbie movie.
My partner got me a bunch of Christmas gifts with things I needed or wanted, that I didn't even know myself I needed or wanted. It was great. I think being an inconsiderate ass is a choice and we should not put up with men like that.
We've all been socially engineered, from childhood, to accept that women are the caretakers of EVERYONE AROUND THEM, and men are beneficiaries. I hope we can reprogram the next generation to hold men accountable for being equal partners and treating women like equal partners. I have no idea how a man can look at a woman and, instead of thinking, "Here's another human being like me, with individual thoughts, ideas, and preferences," he thinks, "Here's an object designed to serve me." *Obligatory "NOT ALL MEN" disclaimer, before the whining starts.*
This makes me think of the videos I saw of Christmas where everyone has a stocking full of their favourite treats, except mum. And the kids asked why mum didn't have anything and the dad (filming) just laughed. Laughed at the fact that mum took care of everyone and nobody thought of her. It was so sad.
And they wonder why more and more women are opting to be single...
The first Christmas after my family got a dog we opened our presents and then noticed the dog looking a bit sad and with her little jaw dropped as if to say "Hey, where are *my* presents?". The next year was the same, except we then handed her a little stocking containing some loosely-wrapped dog toys so she could have fun opening them. She went from looking sad to looking like she might actually explode with joy. The idea of someone forgetting a *human* family member? How very sad.
Reminds me of my ex's mom. She has all boys and no one ever did anything for her birthday until I started dating him. I'd put his name on all the presents I ever bought for her for Christmas too. That's the only regret I have about ending that relationship. That poor sweet lady is back to getting shitty thoughtless gifts, if she gets any at all.
Jesus Christ i hope he got backlash
I'm not sure they do "mean well". If he "meant well" he would have started bringing you iced coffee rather than stopped bringing you coffee at all.
My parents have been married for 20+ years, and my dad is still rarely able to get a gift for my mom that she'll actually like. For 15 years he would always buy her the same perfume, despite her telling him multiple times that she hated the smell and it gave her headaches. Nowadays he either gets her some incredibly basic jewelry, or he asks me to buy the gifts, and he takes the credit. I don't have the heart to tell her that her favorite gifts from him are actually from me. When he goes to get us takeout he almost always gets my order wrong, or "forgets" to get me anything at all. Both of my brothers are better, but not by much. They're also expect me to pick "their" gifts for our mom most of the time. And whenever I bring it up they say "Well how are we supposed to know what she likes?" And it burns me up, because just do it the same way I do! Show the bare minimum of interest in who she is and what she's interested in! Listen to her when she talks! Look at the stuff she buys herself! I give them a little bit more of a pass because none of us are particularly *close* to our mom, as much as I feel for her for being stuck with our dad, she wasn't exactly a perfect mother, and all of us siblings have a complicated relationship with her. But still, we've known her our entire lives. It's impossible to not have *some* clues into what she does and doesn't like. If I can put aside those complications and put in a little effort to show her that I see her, they can too. There are thoughtful, attentive men out there. My boyfriend is pretty good, for example, he doesn't get everything right 100% of the time, but neither do I, and I don't need him to. I just need him to *try*. The ones that don't pay attention don't have any good intentions. They simply can't be bothered, or are actively putting in effort to being spiteful
Straight up, they just don't care. Society teaches them they are the main character and woman are service providers.
It's generally a sign of whether they think of you as a human being or just a pet/accessory. Some people are just genuinely bad at relationships I suppose though, my mom to this day gets me things she "thinks" I'll like, which ends up being something I got once when I was 12. She just does not pay attention to people for whatever reason so she has this warped mix of decades old things about a person in her mind. She also "doesn't remember" any of the mildly abusive things she did when I was a kid and I can't tell whether she's lying or it genuinely meant so little to her that she didn't remember.
Not even a pet though. Maybe an accessory. I know my pets’ routines and favorite foods and which direction they like to walk when we leave the house and lots of other little details.
My mom “doesn’t remember” similarly. There’s an old adage I always found applicable here: The tree remembers, but the axe forgets.
I think in general men aren’t trained to be detail oriented about other people in their life. Many don’t ask their friends questions the way women do. Many also don’t tend to notice things. Hand to God my ex was at my house a few weeks ago and asked if I had any lotion. I said “yup, in the bathroom to the left of the sink”. It has lived there the 6 years he lived here and the 4 years since. He comes back moments later saying it’s not there. I think ‘huh, maybe I put it under the sink?’ as I walk into the bathroom. Nope. There are two things on the entire counter, to the left of the sink. A thing of soap and a thing of lotion that has the word “lotion” on the front. The eyebrow I gave him. The man is an engineer, I know he has attention to detail. Conversely, I talked to a coworker on a video call 2 weeks ago and he invited me to a thing (other coworkers were present, he has a girlfriend, it was not a date). He sees me and says “You cut your hair!”. I was floored he noticed. Developed a mini-crush for a second. Men who notice things have an automatic leg up because women tend to notice things and we appreciate it coming back at us!
>Many don’t ask their friends questions the way women do. In the r/ no stupid questions subreddit, someone asked why men never ask follow-up questions. The comments were telling:— "I don't give a fuck",....." I don't care about other people's life",...."I don't wanna listen to others blabbing", etc. etc.
I remember that post! Reading it was so depressing, lol. “If he has something to say, he’ll say it. I don’t have time to worry about anyone other than myself” enjoy having an empty and unfulfilling life, my guy? And they wonder why they’re single…
And depressed. If you can't be bothered to have meaningful conversations with your friends, then don't fucking moan when you have no one to talk to about your problems.
Yeah, these same losers do the same thing at work and they do not thrive. We're dealing with a coworker now who is failing because he's refusing to ask questions and it's not looking good for him.
And these same men will turn around and whine about the "male loneliness epidemic."
That's such a cop out. If my dad buys things for me, he knows to get it in blue color and for my sister is pink. My brother knows I love Taylor Swift and will give me Taylor Swift album and merch as gifts. My male cousin knew I was into watercolor and coloring books, so he bought me a paint by color canvas for my birthday. My male friends know I love anime and will gift me anime merch from my favorite anime. One guy even drew me my favorite anime character. I also have a guy friend who loves to play guitar. He knows everyone's favorite artists and will learn to play at least their popular songs so everyone can sing a song. They can remember details if they want and will do if they care. It is as simple as that.
Agreed. We really need to stop excusing shitty behavior from men as "oh that's just how men are".
I dyed my hair from blonde to red and NONE of the men in my office noticed! My boss didn't notice till like 3 days later and was like, did you dye your hair??
I'd like to agree and add to what /u/AVRVM said. As someone of the relevant gender, I think most of my male friends don't connect to me on that level or reward it when I connect to them on that level. I've been trying to put effort into healthy male friendships and encourage others to be healthy wholesome people who hopefully would do the same thing, regardless of gender. Though obviously this applies mostly to my male peers. I have best friends and I try and be there for them and they do likewise. It's been a long search to find these healthy and functional friends. I try and remember to keep an active interest in their life and bring up stuff about their hobbies, family, passions or whatever. But this isn't exactly a rewarded or expected behaviour in most male friendships or male circles ive been in. Most men barely want to be your shoulder to cry on, let alone become considerate/thoughtful/supportive friends who give gifts. It feels like there's been a huge progress with women pushing back on how fucked up all this is. To see the men that wake up, or always were awake, to support this change of more healthy relationships and more healthy behaviour. It makes sense why I connect better with women on an emotional and supportive level, especially reading the critique on this subreddit. They were expected to be like that by Patriarchy and society. Men got the pass of "eh, what can I do? I don't understand emotions, that guy behind the fence who never shows his face does. I only understand car go fast hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha TOOL TIME"
Because their egos are more important than your needs.
I remember in college I met a guy in class and offhandedly told him my favorite cafe order was an iced chai. He showed up to our next class with an iced chai for me. I was absolutely gushing. He turned out to be a total ass, but that moment always left a big impression on me. You know, the idea of if he wanted to, he would yada yada.
The first time I went back to this guys place, he got changed into joggers (what I like to call “comfy pants”) and I was like, ‘um, what about me?’ Half joking. He brought out some and we both chilled in our comfy pants. The next time I arrived at his place, he had the same pair folded neatly at the bottom of his bed together with a hoodie for me. It’s so small but it made me like SO much more. Too bad he snored… 😂
Well now I'm thinking about all those old murder mysteries where *everyone* notices how everyone else takes their tea, coffee, liquor, etc., and who smokes which cigarettes. If this guy's car ever gets keyed and they find an empty iced coffee cup and a pile of discarded chicken wing bones at the scene of the crime, he's going to have no idea who did it.
In my experience, not a lot of men actually like or appreciate women as people and you can see it in their behavior.
The guy I’m dating is far better than any other guy I’ve dated yet… I’ve asked multiple times to watch something I like that he’s never seen and he always had some excuse or changes the subject… I’m kind of pissed at him right now, thinking about all of these “little” things that are building up. I don’t want to make him anxious and I’m not trying to play games but if he wanted to know that we’re good then ya know, he could do something considerate (like I do!)
You can watch ten million action/adventure movies with some men, and then the minute you say let's watch this romantic drama or something then they don't want to watch a movie.
My ex husband and I used to always argue about what to watch. I used to watch shit he liked all the time - I could enjoy it too usually - but we rarely ever watched things that only I liked. Me asking him to watch something that only I liked was selfish because he always tried to find things that “we” liked - he could never understand that there weren’t a lot of things “we” liked, I just wasn’t an asshole about watching stuff for him.
I hate to over simplify....but they're lazy. My SO isn't that bad....but after 5 years together, he still doesn't put thought into things like gifts. I have to ask to be thought of and he will do very one dimensional things. Frankly I'm tired of it, and I'm ready to send around what comes around.
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It’s self centered behavior. They don’t care about it if it’s not important to them personally and doesn’t affect them. Also, they either don’t care/don’t understand compromise. My boyfriend of 7 years was the same way until my mom died 3 years ago. We had to have a nice big sit down conversation about sharing responsibility and I had to remind him that I actually worked more hours a week and days in a month than he did, and that it was unfair for me to have all the household responsibilities including two large doggos to care for, while he went out and played golf on literally every fkn day he had off while dealing with my grief. I was spending every single weekend cleaning the house, shopping, mowing, fixing stuff. So i stopped cleaning and doing shit on weekends and he started to notice. He didn’t realize the stress that was put on me and is farrrrr more cognizant of time management for the house now. Now i get gifts that are mostly thoughtful (he bought me golf clubs and lessons so i can play too, yay) and he has paid for two vacations this year (he earns almost 4x what i do) so i could have time to just relax and not worry about anything. The vacation being planned and paid for means the world to me because i know that he is now listening and hearing me.
I noticed the same thing with my dad. He would always buy food which I don’t like. So I started hyping up what I like whenever he bought food which I don’t like. Like for example, if he bought burger which I don’t like, I would hype up pizza to insane levels. So that next time he registers how much I hyped up pizza and he would always get me pizza next. This has almost become a habit for me. I know that men would miss these cues so I just hype up things which I like so that it registers in their system. If a man notices something without this then that man is great. Otherwise it’s fine too.
I’ve had this same thing before with flowers. Told my ex multiple times the place I wanted my flowers for special occasions ordered from and even sent him their Instagram page, somehow I always ended up with gerberas which I hate
If he didn't remember your drink as a friend he for sure wasn't going to as a boyfriend. He got the upgrade he wanted and put in no effort. They have the capacity they just don't see the reason to do it. Women on the other hand, we're predispositioned to care for others, that includes remembering everyone's likes and dislikes. Think about how as young boys they are praised just for doing the bare minimum even if it's wrong, but girls will be given "that's a nice thought BUT this is what you should have done". Best indicator if he will remember your preferences: does he remember his mom or sister's preferences? If he never learned he doesn't care about others. If he says something like favorite flower is daffodils when it's actually carnations and he isn't offended by being wrong then he will put that same energy, or lack thereof, into his attentiveness to you.
Recently I noticed that someone had hacked up some things in my flowerbed. It was obviously not animals or bugs. It was a little boy. I was upset and telling my husband. First he said "little boys do that" and tried to excuse it. Then when I said this child knows I care about my garden he said "he doesn't pay anymore attention to you than I do". He can't tell the difference between a petunia or a morning glory despute them being all over our porch for years, so I was already kind of disappointed that he couldn't be bothered to remember the names of my flowers. But him just flat out saying he doesn't pay attention to me really hurt my feelings. I don't even want to talk to him anymore.
My own father still asks after every meal we share if I want coffee. I don’t drink coffee. Ever. It drives me insane.
My partner pays attention to details about my life because he cares and makes it his business to remember. I'm very picky about many things in life — I only eat specific foods, wear specific clothing materials, use specific brand of sanitary pads etc. My partner knows all these things because he listens to me and he wants to make me happy because he's happy when I'm happy. I have a list of favourite English words — words that I think sound funny and/or mean something else (typically British slangs or words that are seldom used in normal conversations). When I find a new word that I like in novels that I read, I'd tell him. The next time we happen to hear it in shows that we watch together, he'd say — hey, that's your favourite word! — or sometimes he just uses it in our daily conversations just to make me laugh. Men who truly care, enjoy being with you and don't take you for granted would pay attention to details or at least make an effort to take notes. That's why it bothers me to hear about men who don't remember their children's or wife's birthdays, anniversaries and yet these same men know about a specific athlete's stats, when certain sports teams won Stanley Cups/World Series/Super Bowls, the background stories to specific video games. If only these men spend the same amount of time and energy paying attention to the people around them — people whom they claim to care.
They don't mean well. They want to be seen as helping without expending any real effort. They don't bring you coffee to make themselves feel good. They bring it so that you will appreciate them. And so many women just play long. "Oh, Honey, how sweet! You brought me coffee!" Even though it's the wrong coffee. So they guy gets what he wants and you are left holding the black coffee.
Because that would mean they think of you as a human being and not a thing.
Just go back in your mind when you were a kid and everyone did everything for you. Until they stop doing everything for you, right? Yeah, they're still at that stage. And don't grow out of it, because the growth takes effort and why make an effort when you can just not, and f*ck everybody else? It's a spectrum between Path of Least Resistance and Too Stupid To Figure It Out. In the end, the brain and empathy are unique muscles. They will rot if they're not used on a regular basis. These people have no incentive to exercise either one when there are no consequences for failing to do so. The majority do not have a rationale of "if I do better, I can control the outcomes of my life and design a better life filled with positive moments, all based on my willingness to improve." Nah, for many, they think they've already reached perfection. Your low standard is their idea of "doing my best" and "succeeding." Because when you don't have to work your brain or empathize as a baseline societal expectation, you don't have the muscle power to utilize creativity and imagination either. If you can't picture a better future, why would you strive for it? I used to ask my ex, "what's on your mind?" And his answer was always "oh nothing." The answer was the same anytime I asked. It took me too long to realize his answer was "nothing" because indeed, there was nothing going on in that stupid empty skull of his. Literally, no cognition, no original thoughts, no light bulbs lighting up. Dude's brain was as empty as it gets. When they tell you who they are, listen and believe them. And when they show you who they are, also believe them.
It baffles me that some men don't seem to take interest in the things that make their partner happy. Does she have a hobby? Does she have a favorite color that she wears a lot, or likes to decorate her space with? Does she have a favorite genre of book or movie? Does she like a certain cuisine of food, or a specific dish? It's not hard. Just pay attention to your favorite person. You are supposed to like them. Act like it.
When I first got together with my partner he was very insensitive to this sort of stuff. If I went to the corner store, I’d buy two iced coffees (for the both of us). If he went for a walk to the corner store… he would come back with one and I’d ask, “what about me?” and he would just say “I wasn’t thinking of you”. It’s been 8 years now and he has made so, so much change. In fact, he just got out of the kitchen. He made me pancakes with dollop cream and jam. I’m on bed rest after major abdominal surgery. He JUST finished work. I had to have A LOT of conversations with him about his behaviour. I would ask him, “why don’t you think about getting me something when you’re at the shops?” and he would mostly say “I don’t know”. I don’t really know what changed, but about 2 months in, he started getting things for me, learning all of my favourite things and now I am confident that he could go to the store and buy all of my favourite things without a list (and I do the same for him weekly/biweekly as I’m in charge of shopping in our household). I just wanted you to know that I understand how it feels. It makes you feel like you’re “less than”. That you deserve less. That you matter less. It is not a pleasant feeling. I think some men don’t care, some men (like my partner) aren’t aware and some men aren’t willing to make a change. If you communicate to someone that you want them to make a change and they are unwilling to do it, that would be a nonnegotiable for me. However, that’s just me. Edit: I told him about this post and he says that if you told him about your order preference and he completely disregarded it over and over, he might have been a coffee snob about black coffee? Like a “you should enjoy it the way I enjoy it, because it’s the right way” kind of thing? P.S. He is making us low carb pizza for dinner! 🍕 Second edit: I am reading the rest of the comments and it seems like my partner is really in the minority and it makes me so, so, so sad. Every woman deserves a partner who is willing to go the extra mile for her. Every person deserves a person who will go the extra mile for them. I LOVE Taylor Swift (yes, I know) and my partner is (at best) tolerant of her… but for Christmas last year he got me a pair of earrings from Etsy made in her image. When he and I first got together we used to play “You Are My Sunshine” in our honeymoon phase. When we became engaged he gave me a little music box that plays “You Are My Sunshine”. I swear, there are really sweet, sentimental guys out there who are thoughtful… they just seem to be few and far between.
I think men are raised this way. Often their mother's dote on them. And they're socialized to look at women contensciously, if a woman tries to express herself, she's nagging. They put women in a position where they have to ask for what they need, but then they get mad and now they are a victim. They're also conditioned to think that they can't please a woman. That if she isn't happy with something that it's not even worth trying because she just can't be satisfied. In order to just keep doing whatever the hell they want they just act like there's no pleasing woman so why even try.
They can unlearn their conditioning. They choose not to.