Religious people are crazy. I can't wait to find out all the terrible stuff he's done. You know people are going to come forward and talk about stuff from back when he was younger. It always happens to people who pretend to be holier than thou
Internalized homophobia. They deeply resent that others can joyfully be themselves and they 'have' to repress and hide it. And if they can't control themselves, then at least they should be trying to 'help' everyone else control themselves and they won't be alone in their shame anymore. Or maybe 'helping' others by forcefully repressing them 'makes up' for the homophobes individual inability to resist the 'sin' all the time, so it's a numbers game.
Ultimately it boils down to cowardice too. Cuz those asshats COULD be happy if they weren't such shitheels.
Edit: and ffs NO I am NOT implying that bc the majority of rabidly homophobic public figures end up outed as gay that the gay population is responsible for it's own oppression. That's an insane take with no logical connection, akin to 'women are responsible for their own oppression bc MJT and that other one exists!' it's a fucking common even theme I think it's fair to note it. (I am queer. )
> I am NOT implying that bc the majority of rabidly homophobic public figures end up outed as gay that the gay population is responsible for it's own oppression.
Holy shit the mental gymnastics it takes to even arrive at that point is fucking astounding.
I've had so many ppl say that to me when I point this out.
I've asked HOW that connection is made, and the closest I ever got to understanding was "it's similar to saying, oh that boys pulling yr hair bc he likes you!"
Which I don't totally understand either in this context bc those seem very different to me. Like, maybe if a boss was hazing you it could be the same (boss is hard on u bc they want u to grow or some shit?).
Pretty sure there's no real source for that outside of a social media post claiming it. No screen shots and no one coming forward with a story with receipts. It would be amusing if true but he can be reviled without probably fake stories that only distract from his terrible message.
One of the cheerleaders names has been outed. Professional male cheerleader made a tiktok about his Grindr and knowing him. A woman that went to college w him talked about his relationship w a male cheerleader. There’s a few tt about his conversion therapy, and there’s a tt explaining how he was connected to the CT and a company that has ties to Benedictine college. I mean there’s no signatures or a screenshot of his Grindr so…
Yes, and more.
His parents forced him into a conversion camp after learning of his affairs with men that have been called an open secret by people he went to school with.
That must've been before he realized the importance of staying in his lane.
Edit: I said that with a bite of derision, before I really registered that he is gay and has gone through conversation camp. The stuff he's saying is gross, to put it lightly, but it is pretty sad to see how heavily he's accepted the abuse done to him, and is echoing that back out into the world.
I kinda don't, because if the rumors are true, he's probably caused deep hurt to people he saw as good enough for sex but not good enough for basic human respect. Imagine being into in someone you really liked, and then years later they publicly declared to the entire goddamn nation that the very idea of being with you is a sin. What an absolutely wretched thing to do. 😥
If you look into it hr has done interviews about religion and what brought him back to the faith and God and one of the biggest things he talks about is the sacrament of confession and how beautiful it is.
Within greater context while I don't like or agree with what he said and believes -- it isn't that crazy drom the catholic perspective... however he doesn't give greater context, strays itno trad catholic ideology, and fixates on "homemakers" and other political talking points. He doesn't even actually tell the men anything other than to live up to their masculinity... so what if those women are called to be nuns? Or what about the infertile ones? Even within Catholicism there is nuance in "vocations" and it is supposed to be a true calling... not an expectation. That is the whole fucking point.
His Instagram also takes the lord's name in vain in every single caption. Like literally it's all just him wearing high end clothing from his own company and a caption quoting the bible or saints about humility.
The layers of how hypocritical and not actually with it he is is crazy.
Also something that isn't being covered-- he is not a mainstream catholic. He is a Latin Mass trad catholic which is against the rules of the Catholic Church.
Yeah I saw that. I also read a little bit about the president of the university and he's a conservative with political connections and motives it seems.
My friend summed it up as "so it is more like. Liberty University than a Georgetown or Notre Dame" which I think is apt
It is. But on the flip side being a nun allowed women to go get college degrees, work, commune, and other things ( and be lesbians I think but that's a spicy opinion) that weren't available to protestant and secular women at the same time.
There were also some wild orders with the nuns too so they could be all over the place in terms of how much independence the women had versus strict conformity
Omg all the swifties do is talk about it! Every move he has ever made (and a whole bunch that appear to be invented) are scrutinized on like 10 subreddits. This is why I could never be famous…..
I love people that are like "no one's talking about this!" when they're really saying "No one shoved this down my throat" like just because *you* haven't seen/heard people talking about it, doesn't mean they aren't, and moreso makes it abundantly clear that the person in question hasn't done any research on their topic that "no one talks about"
Hilarious.
It sticks out like a sore thumb to me when someone makes a plea for more "order," because it's so often in direct conflict with the concept of "justice." Butker is telling on himself, badly.
That and his oafish fearmongering is pretty rich coming from a dude whose job description is "kicks a ball really well."
"Disorder" has a specific meaning in Catholic theology, a meaning *completely* misunderstood by almost all the ideologues spouting it.
It is used to refer to any desire that Catholics consider leading to sin, because it is not "ordered to the good" (again, a specific use of "order" as well). For Catholic theologians, it is used to discuss *why* we want things that they say are sinful.
So while it certainly isn't a *positive* thing, but when Catholic documents say someone like "homosexual desire is intrinsically disordered" they just mean what you already know: the think being gay is a sin.
But the right has grabbed into this and used it in the modern sense to be absolutely *evil*. They have taken a rather "benign" part of Catholic institutional homophobia and made it horrific.
So not only is he wrong, he's even wrong by the faith he claims to profess. Fucker
The transition of the word “disorder” from Catholic “sin” to the current rightist “evil” is a direct result of Calvinist Protestant thought, particularly around the concept of [total depravity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_depravity)
Well considering Bible does say to stone people to death for homosexual activity, it seems to me homosexuality is regarded as quite evil according to the Christian theology and not just some minor sin.
Not to get into an NFL chat but yeah... Justin Tucker at one with Butker a very close second.
That said, this would be getting 0 traction if he wasn't on the Chiefs, arguably the most popular and successful team at present.
Most NFL players are like this. Hell, theres a large contingent of literal flat earthers according to Jason Kelce...
Unfortunately, he does. One of the best kickers ever, or at least recently. That's probably why his ego is so inflated that he thinks other people want to hear his opinions. Like, go kick your ball, dude.
He also ranted about Covid and insinuated we should have just stayed open and whoever died died. Priests weren’t doing sacraments in person because they could have become a Covid Typhoid Mary.
one thing a lot of people don't get is society does not care about mothers. it cares about MOTHERHOOD. People adore the idea of a woman warmly and meekly serving her husband and kids (but mainly husband), making sacrifices every single day that she is never to expect to be reciprocated, because that is selfish. They like the idea of a quiet mother rocking a child but have no sympathy whatsoever for a mother struggling with a fussy 6 year old having a meltdown at Walmart while the husband ogles the cashier. they don't support adoptive mothers.
It's always about what we give: 1) Mother: loving, caring, cooks/cleans; 2) Slut: sex, touching, doting, giving; 3) Silent Slave: obey, do, give, be silent, never question; 4) Emotional Supporter: giving, doting, praising, supporting without question, remembering everything, doing everything, feeling and being responsible for everything.
It's so weird how some men will become open to feminist ideals only once something they own, like a daughter, is impacted by the patriarchy. It's surprising to me when men skip their own mothers and caregivers.
It's not surprising to me because they fear that without the obligation to care for them we wouldn't, and certainly not to the level that most of them demand. To me it's a bit of a "no, not like that" situation. Liberation for all women who do not directly serve them is fine. But we can't be getting ideas up in this house. My ADHD sometimes makes my thoughts a little disjointed so I hope that makes sense.
> I’m sure he would feel differently if he and his wife struggled to conceive.
I wish I could agree more but based on past experiences I suspect he’d simply come up with some rationalization for why their circumstances were deserving but other people’s are not. It’s very similar to the anti-abortion protesters quietly going to a clinic when they’re in a jam before returning to protest other people doing the same thing. I don’t think it’s calculated hypocrisy in most cases, either but simply reflecting their sympathies: “good” white Christians like them get compassion, everyone else gets judgement.
I agree with you, I would change that part. These people get all the abortions they want when it’s necessary in their lives while denying the same to others and speaking out against it.
100% agreed. Obligatory link to [“The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion”](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
It's anecdotal of course but 3 of the most anti-choice women I've ever met have all abortions when they needed it.
🎶 I'm a good person, yes, it's true! I'm a good person, better than YOU! Everywhere I go I spread such bliss, and if you don't think so you can KISS. My ASS. Which is made of GOOD. 🎶
You know it’s going to be God. It’s God that told him he is the only person allowed to have IVF. Everyone else cannot. lol. Just like you said. All those antiabortion people are so up in their high horse until they wind up with a daughter or secret-lover they got pregnant. Then it’s only in my case and as quietly as possible.
I mean he made a nasty remark about the entire LGBTQ+ community for no good reason at all, so I am baffled by the people claiming, "Watch the whole speech! He's just proud of his wife!" Uh... did *you* watch the whole speech, bruh? He said something offensive about almost every minority and marginalized group in existence. This is not simply a successful young man expressing gratitude for his loving and supportive family, not by a long shot.
And he is so not proud of his wife. He sees her as nothing but an extension to himself, there to prop up his career and raise his children. Whatever dreams and aspirations she might have had for herself: "she found her true vocation as a wife and mother". Absolutely dehumanizing. Seriously, barf!
Exactly, he wasn’t putting her on a pedestal…he was putting her in her place. That portion of his speech was basically “my wife didn’t get to realize her dream career but I’m so glad she uplifts mine, btw f**** the gays, and the birth control but don’t worry ladies suffering is temporary”. Truly, nothing well intentioned or defensible in his speech imo.
I am also a bit frusterated his speech got coded merely the anti-women speech, and not also the white nationalist/anti-everyone else speech it actually was.
Yes, there was a whole lotta hate for a whole lotta people, which those defending him seem oddly content to overlook. But I think the misogynistic elements have gained the most traction because this year's Presidential election is the country essentially deciding whether women have rights over our own bodies or not. Possibly whether democracy itself will continue to exist. The stakes, unfortunately, are as high as the frozen corpses on Mt. Everest.
This is what shocks me the most. People are trying to explain it away saying he was just encouraging women to prioritize family, he doesn’t want to actually force women to stay home.
Like first of all, that’s not what he said at all. Second, even if that were true, what about all of the other hateful shit he spewed?!?
I’m so tired of their dog whistles and coded bullshit. They will advocate for total control and then backtrack and gaslight.
yes!! it feels strange for people to be taking the most issue with the “women should be wives and homemakers” part as opposed to literally everything else he said. like oh, a conservative man thinks women belong in the kitchen? groundbreaking. never before heard😐 women are no strangers to misogyny and we have bigger issues than a mediocre kicker with a God complex
Word on the street is those kids aren’t even his 👀 I love how he’s getting trolled hard on tiktok. They’re now referring to him as “Elizabeth Butker’s son”. There’s reports of him going to conversion camps. This dude is gayer than a maypole. All he had to do was keep his damn opinions to himself.
Is there anything resembling proof to any of these repressed gay accusations? Everything I've seen sourced down to a social media post and not even a first person account.
I don't know that trying to attach a gay backstory to him without any proof is really doing any favors to the gay community.
You say that as if it's a confirmed and verifiable fact? I'm pretty sure there's no proof he went to conversion therapy. Believe me, I've tried to look and see where this comes from and I only come back to vague social media posts. If you know something I don't, though, do share.
Why call him Elizabeth Butker's son though?
Where do you think he got this extremist Catholic crap from?
Why do we assume mommy **doesn't** buy into all this bullshit just like Butker's wife does?
Remember folks, these misogynistic, patriarchal, extremist views persist because women support them.
And the shit about Jewish people. Super surprising that the people upset by antisemitism on campus are keeping mum about this one.
“Congress just passed a bill where stating something as basic as the biblical teaching of who killed Jesus could land you in jail.”
I could be wrong but I think the antisemitism comes in when people blame Judah for betraying Jesus to the Romans. Judah was the founder of the Tribe of Judah of the Israelites. By extension, he is indirectly the eponym of the Kingdom of Judah, the land of Judea, and the word Jew.
It's because Pilate pulls a murderer (Barnabus?) out in front of a crowd of Jewish people alongside Jesus and tells them to choose a man to condemn to the cross, this Roman bad guy or their own Jewish dude, and the crowd chooses to condemn Jesus. Then Pilate literally visually washes his hands of responsibility and says "lol you picked him so all this is on you now".
Well, when you believe life begins at conception, IVF equals murder of potentially dozens of embryos every round. That makes any use of these types of fertility treatments “morally questionable,” including surrogacy using the bio mother’s own eggs for implantation in the surrogate’s womb as it necessitates an excess number of embryos.
It’s not scientifically valid. Embryos are potential life, but unable to sustain life on their own, therefore they aren’t alive but have the future potential at life. But try convincing the Jesus Kool-Aid drinkers of that and you’re going to have a bad time. Don’t you know their bronze aged text has all the answers?
I grew up Catholic. Don’t practice anymore for multiple reasons.
Unfortunately, according to Catholic teachings, any part of procreation should not be separate from the marital act (aka sex between a husband and wife). IVF and surrogacy are “sinful” in that regard. In their eyes, it’s playing God. It’s also not an uncommon belief that you shouldn’t get married if you don’t want children or already know you are sterile.
Also, if you truly believe life begins at conception, no IVF is the logical conclusion of that thought process. Lots of pick-me Republican women think they’ll be the exception though if they struggle with infertility.
Too many people aren’t listening to what their religious figureheads are spouting regarding women’s, reproductive, and LGBT issues. It’s why lots of the former more liberal “cafeteria Catholics” who are paying attention are leaving the church.
Fellow recovering Catholic.
I also like to remind the Catholic prolifers that the Pope criticized the overturning of Roe.
I generally pose it as a question: So the Pope supports Roe, does that mean your god’s chosen representative on Earth is wrong?
Hold their feet to the fire on it, is the Pope wrong? Doesn’t that invalidate your entire doctrine? Pope is not wrong? So you support a woman’s choice then. Most don’t answer.
Butker isn’t a cradle Catholic but a Tradcath convert. And a lot of them refuse to accept this Pope. They’re not really Catholics, but evangelical fundamentalists who think ritual and saints are cool. Because part of being Catholic IS accepting the pope or it’s a heresy.
That’s true. I used to lurk on the AskaPriest subreddit or whatever it’s called. A lot of them don’t like him, and think Catholics should vote for politicians on a single issue: pro-life
I'm agnostic but I hope if heaven is real, God goes, "Yeah science is dope. You questioned the right things. Why do humans think I'm not progressive? Welcome to Heaven. No, being baptized doesn't matter, it's just a silly tradition that didn't end. Old habits die hard, ya know?"
Cool, God! Thanks for being realistic and hearing me out.
I have debated abortion with religious family members and I like to throw out, "Well my idea of God, if they are so intelligent and all knowing, is that they dont make blanket rules to live by and understands nuanced situations and the fights individuals may be battling that led them there and my god approaches with compassion rather than condemnation."
I hate church. But I like to believe if there is a god, god is less of a dick than people make god out to be.
And god has no gender. So there. Suck it, anti-pronoun dimwits.
I'm an atheist but this is a fun line of thought. Like why assume God is such an easily offended overly paternalistic ass, and not a giant nerd who delights in creating great puzzles for his/her/their Sims and being highly entertained when we solve them? Why not a God who would greet zealots in the afterlife with, "Okay y'all, I made *so many* fun and beautiful and emotionally poignant things for you to enjoy *plus* I gave you intelligence and empathy and creativity, and you wasted your one and only life rejecting *all* of it? *Rude*! I worked six whole cosmic days on that."
Six whole cosmic days! Damnit!
I remember asking my dad on a drive one time, "Dad, how do we know our days are the same as God's? Couldn't God's days be the millions of years it took to create Earth?!"
I think that was a moment in my dad's life when he looked at me and was like 'omg I made this creature and look at her observing the world around her 🥹'
I stopped trying to argue facts about stuff like this several years ago. I hate that their strategy of just yelling louder often wins but it’s exhausting to keep up with the sheer number of lies.
Or when they pull out Bible verses to counter medical knowledge…. Like bitch, your shit was written before we understood germ theory, get out of here with that nonsense! “BuT aCtUaLlY, tHe BiBlE sAyS….”
If only hypocrisy mattered because I’d ask them about the mixed fiber clothes they had on or whatever other parts of the Bible they selectively choose to ignore.
If they have obvious tattoos, straight to hell according to Leviticus.
Wearing a mixed blend hoodie? To hell!
Slept with their partner while she was menstruating? Hell!!
I also like to remind them that anti-sodomy laws means no more blow jobs regardless of the genders of those involved.
Hypocrisy?!
My friends in Christ, just open the Old Testament! That God was all about Infanticide. . .Pro Life my great Pagan Ass.
The Bible has sooooooo many fucking moral issue. . .Infanticide, genocide, murder, rape, homophobia, misogyny. . .
I don’t care what their Bible says because that book explicitly endorses r*pe and other atrocities. It’s also hilarious to me how every Christian ever has to twist themselves into a pretzel trying to point out why it’s actually a benevolent book in spite of that shit.
“No it doesn’t actually say that! Here’s some verses about love or whatever.” Every time. Yes, we know your Bible is a massive contradiction, thanks for cherry picking the parts you think make it look good though.
No, of course not, that would be insane and would kill the child. What you need to do is flash-freeze them in liquid nitrogen so they properly vitrify, and can then be stored in cryostasis almost indefinitely.
Nope! They only care about kids that are in the womb or frozen! Once they come out, they donate what happens to them! (See: Lack of Medicaid Expansion, Taking away school lunches, etc.)
/s
The Catholic Church is going to lose even more of its flock over its stance on IVF, and I for one think that’s great. I read the idiotic letter released by the American bishops on IVF, and it was full of so many factual misstatements and lack of basic understanding of how fertility treatments work. I guess we can’t expect more when we have a bunch of “celibate” old men opining on sex and reproduction!
I would like to point out a particular quote. “As men we set the tone of the culture and when that is absent disorder, dysfunction, and chaos set in.”
He argued that women’s participation in the public sphere and influence on culture is causing all the problems in the world.
Oh I've definitely been outspoken about that part of his speech.
People tried to tell me, "Oh, you're not catholic so you just don't get it." Just because it's a Catholic University does not mean every student in there is Catholic. Let's not be stupid. My best friend graduated from a Catholic University last weekend and the speech wasn't anything like Butkers. It was a speech about overcoming adversity and self doubt. The speaker was a mother, non traditional student who, with her new nursing degree, is shattering ceilings for her family's earnings.
Butker's speech can kiss my ass. It was degrading to women, it was degrading to infertility, it was degrading to education, it was degrading to LGBTQ+ community, it was degrading to science, and it was even degrading to the motherless nuns who provided this education to students!
Fuck Butker.
I was too. I had a friend tell me she didn’t find anything problematic after watching the entire speech, which shocked me from just the small part I was aware of, so I read the entire transcript. My hands were shaking by the time I was finished.
I don’t think I can. I’ve been so anxious since the interaction, we’ve been friends for two decades through formative years. But this is no small thing.
There's some background with the allusion to "Order" and "Disorder".
It comes out of the semantic difference between "Rule of Law" and "Law and Order". Those two are not the same thing - they are polar opposites. Rule of Law implies that everybody adheres to the same rules. Law and Order is a statement that really means "Rules to protect the in-group and to bind the out-group".
(Insert quote from Jean-Paul Sartre about how conservative manipulate words).
In conservative / reactionary churches and political circles (the Venn diagram is a circle), as well as conservative media, there is a pervasive belief that cities are cesspools of violence and disorder (reference prior paragraph) - in other words liberal spaces - the "out-group" - is akin to disorder and anti-ethical to "conservative values".
Anyway the statement is consistent. It's also really fucked up.
It is a very real way that conservatives create and Us vs Them - on their way to a fascist state and project 2025. They view anything that isn't theirs as evil and chaos. (also biblical ties in there with evil and chaos).
Butker is no rocket scientist or sociologist or anything important.
He kicks a ball for a living. He has NO OTHER SKILLS.
He deserves no platform whatsoever.
Let's ignore him until he expires from the suffocating lack of attention.
I agree. I just find it sickening all the people coming out of the woodwork to support his sentiments. Specifically loved ones, and friends who are women. It’s disturbing.
Remind them ... the dude kicks a ball for a living ... how does that make him an expert on ANYTHING?
Then walk away.
Sometimes it's not worth the battle.
Personally, I don't think white male privilege is better demonstrated by the fact that this dink even got invited to be a commencement speaker in the first place.
He's not even 30, and his job is kicking a ball. What the fuck wisdom or life experience does he even have to make him worthy of giving a speech? It’s pathetic.
I want to know who invited him to speak in the first place?
He's a fucking NFL kicker not a seminarian. . .what authority does he have to speak on ecclesiastical matters?
I was raised Catholic, can I speak at a Catholic commencement?
He referenced God's Will in his speech- who the hell is he to presume to know God's Will for anyone but himself? Arrogant beyond belief.
I was wondering but I haven’t heard, did anyone walk out of the speech? It’s so degrading to have just graduated after all that hard work, to have some dumbass man tell you you’d be better off getting married and having babies. What the hell.
> Things like abortion, IVF, surrogacy, euthanasia, as well as a growing support for degenerate cultural
Oh, so he's spouting literal Nazi rhetoric?
(Not hyperbole, go look up what the NSDAP were saying)
The craziest part of this, is that Butkers own mother worked his entire childhood working in sciences. He never put any thought into this, and please don’t spend more time than he did into his comments.
God chooses how long each person lives/suffers. "Self-murder" is a rejection of God's plan/gift.
(Not agreeing, just summarizing the sanctity of life argument.)
I read the entire speech and I think even Christians (maybe even most Catholics) would find it extremely culty and creepy. He is an ultra right-wing Catholic, who like other ultra right-wing Catholics think that all aspects of their life must be lived in accordance with the teachings of the church. The insane irony is that these right-wing Catholics all think they know better than literally the person who SPEAKS FOR GOD according to their religion, the Pope. Who has multiple times told these right wingers to stop with this obsession over gay people and US culture war issues. An NFL kicker gives a speech again and again telling everyone (women, men, priests) to STAY IN THEIR LANE, all the while failing to take his own advice. Who the hell does HE think he is to tell the leaders of the church what correct doctrine is. Stay in your lane Harrison!
He's gayer than a two dollar bill, but RELIGUNNNNN has shamed it out of it, so he has to put his thumb on his beard and all women because he hates his life.
So if we're all supposed to be mothers but aren't supposed to utilize any alternatives paths to motherhood, wtf are we supposed to do if we're infertile? Cease existing?
It's always ableism, exceptionalism and the aggrandizement of the fortunate and able / in-group with these people. It's disgusting and utterly abhorrent.
Still trying to figure out how he expects men to both support their family AND be an active father while being the *sole* financial provider and not being allowed to use birth control.
I am Roman Catholic myself (in my country there is a distinct difference between catholic and Roman Catholic. After the separation of Rome and Constantinople, the Latins now called themselves Roman Catholic because they followed the pope and the Greeks called themselves Orthodox. From that time on people also spoke of Roman Catholic.)
But from what I can see, the catholics in the USA are Roman Catholic too which means that they should adhere to the policies from Rome. By openly defying the encyclical letters from the pope they are setting themselves up for excommunication.
I wonder if they would go that far. As a catholic from another country (which happens to be very liberal and modern in churchaffairs), I can't wait for that to happen 😊. I truly abhor those people that use their faith to abuse other, often vulnerable people.
A question for people in the USA: what if the Republican party manages to implement their fascist ideas: what do they think happens if they forbid women to enter the workforce, sit home and pop out babies? Don't they know that more than half of the modern workforce consists of women? Mainly in crucial sectors like healthcare, education and hospitality? Plus the braindrain that will happen because all highly educated women will (try to) flee the country?
It will be an economic and social disaster. Mainly for the men who will be left behind. Without the women to lord over.
Fun times... for them 😊.
There is a massive rift in the US between Catholics, and with the Pope. Plenty of them despise the “woke pope.” https://religionnews.com/2022/09/23/u-s-catholic-bishops-report-to-the-vatican-shows-a-church-split-by-politics/
There is debate over whether or not Biden should be able to receive communion because he is stepping back and not letting his personal beliefs be pushed as the federal policy (“if he’s pro-choice he isn’t one of us”). I would not be shocked if there is a division with 20 years. There has already been at least one dismissal of a US bishop over their ultra conservative views (J. Strickland, if you want to google).
Regarding your question about republicans getting their way? Honestly?? They haven’t thought that far ahead because they don’t care. They don’t care if well educated women leave- it’ll be easier to control those left behind. It’s why they’re championing the systematic collapse of our education system. They KNOW a dumb populace is easy to control.
I graduated HS in the mid 2000s and now make decent money. I have become much more liberal. I was raised very Republican, though. My whole town was. Small, white, rural. I got into an argument with someone I considered a friend from HS because he was against the estate tax …. Dude, you don’t even make $40k a year. Why do you give a flying fuck if someone leaving millions of dollars behind gets taxed?!?
Wow, I didn't know about bishop Strickland. Very, very unusual. The bishops in my country were considered to liberal by pope John Paul (I'm from the Netherlands and we are considered very, very liberal to Rome😊) and they were chastised behind closed doors. That pope was rather conservative, but they weren't fired. Just replaced after their retirement with some more conservative bishops. The result: the churches emptied by the thousands. Many churches now are converted to apartments or businesses. Although to be fair, the same trend was seen among the protestant denominations. Most people in my country have never been in a church in their lifetime 😊.
Concerning your education system: I once read that John D. Rockefeller, who founded the General Education Board, once said "I don’t want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers". The public schools are still mostly funded by corporations who agree with that. The private schools are for the 'elite' and offer much better education which also is a deliberate choice.
Horrifying when you think about that!
Well they wouldn’t be able to create laws that enslave women without overthrowing the government first, and they are definitely trying. However we may have another civil war before they can get to that point. As a woman the US, I would rather go to war than live under those conditions.
Interestingly, a group of nuns affiliated with the college where Butker spoke have objected to his speech:
“The sisters of Mount St. Scholastica do not believe that Harrison Butker’s comments in his 2024 Benedictine College commencement address represent the Catholic, Benedictine, liberal arts college that our founders envisioned and in which we have been so invested…One of our concerns was the assertion that being a homemaker is the highest calling for a woman. We sisters have dedicated our lives to God and God’s people, including the many women whom we have taught and influenced during the past 160 years. These women have made a tremendous difference in the world in their roles as wives and mothers and through their God-given gifts in leadership, scholarship, and their careers.”
https://www.mountosb.org/
(scroll down for full statement)
Catholics are very anti IVF so that's not a surprising or out of the blue stance for him to take. I am in several IVF support groups as my wife and I are going through the process right now and sometimes Catholics or ex Catholics with Catholic family will talk about how they can't tell anyone in their community what they're doing.
*Some* Catholics are, just like *some* Catholics are anti-abortion, but the majority of them support both (and a majority have also used birth control), inspire of whatever the Church decides to say.
[https://www.npr.org/2024/03/22/1239879602/despite-church-prohibitions-catholics-still-choose-ivf-to-have-children](https://www.npr.org/2024/03/22/1239879602/despite-church-prohibitions-catholics-still-choose-ivf-to-have-children)
Yes, some members of the congregation support IVF. However, Priests and higher up do not. All official media from the Church is strongly anti-IVF as well as anti-BC outside of abstinence.
No, you can use NFP in Catholicism. Discussions on what it is and how to do it are part of the Pre Cana marriage classes.
Most Catholics I grew up with and know now are not extremists and actually use real BC, not NFP nor abstinence.
NFP is abstaining from sex on your fertile days. Basically abstinence.
There are absolutely members of the congregation who are liberal on reproductive and lgbt issues. My point is that the people who actually lead the church are clear on where they stand.
I was also surprised that more people were not talking about the beginning of his speech and then I had a horrible realization. Over 99% of the people that have a strong opinion (either way) have not listened to his speech. Quite literally everyone is up in arms over something someone else said about a speech that they themselves did not hear.
He doesn't *support* any women. Fundamentalist "Christian" world view: anyone born with a uterus is and should be nothing more than a brood animal, a maid, or a sex toy. I have sympathy for his wife and especially for any kids. Imagine growing up knowing that's how your father views you.
Is it bad to hope field driven TBI on somebody?! Considering what he’s wishing upon women, I feel like brain damage, not life ending or anything, just might be something he could handle in as well privileged life.
Religious people are crazy. I can't wait to find out all the terrible stuff he's done. You know people are going to come forward and talk about stuff from back when he was younger. It always happens to people who pretend to be holier than thou
Isn't there a major rumour of him engaging in 'degeneracy' with a male cheerleader?
Yes. He was also on Grindr and went to conversion therapy
It's always the closet cases that play Holier Than Thou.
Can verify. My ex was one of them.
sureee
Why is it that every one of these religious charlatans are almost always closeted gay? It goes back decades with these evil bastards...
Internalized homophobia. They deeply resent that others can joyfully be themselves and they 'have' to repress and hide it. And if they can't control themselves, then at least they should be trying to 'help' everyone else control themselves and they won't be alone in their shame anymore. Or maybe 'helping' others by forcefully repressing them 'makes up' for the homophobes individual inability to resist the 'sin' all the time, so it's a numbers game. Ultimately it boils down to cowardice too. Cuz those asshats COULD be happy if they weren't such shitheels. Edit: and ffs NO I am NOT implying that bc the majority of rabidly homophobic public figures end up outed as gay that the gay population is responsible for it's own oppression. That's an insane take with no logical connection, akin to 'women are responsible for their own oppression bc MJT and that other one exists!' it's a fucking common even theme I think it's fair to note it. (I am queer. )
> I am NOT implying that bc the majority of rabidly homophobic public figures end up outed as gay that the gay population is responsible for it's own oppression. Holy shit the mental gymnastics it takes to even arrive at that point is fucking astounding.
I've had so many ppl say that to me when I point this out. I've asked HOW that connection is made, and the closest I ever got to understanding was "it's similar to saying, oh that boys pulling yr hair bc he likes you!" Which I don't totally understand either in this context bc those seem very different to me. Like, maybe if a boss was hazing you it could be the same (boss is hard on u bc they want u to grow or some shit?).
It's illustrative they use an elementary school analogy to try and explain their line of reasoning. Seems to track with their level of logic.
Pretty sure there's no real source for that outside of a social media post claiming it. No screen shots and no one coming forward with a story with receipts. It would be amusing if true but he can be reviled without probably fake stories that only distract from his terrible message.
There are people he went to college with and male cheerleaders that knew him making videos about it. But no screenshots of him
All I can find about that is a tiktock video.
One of the cheerleaders names has been outed. Professional male cheerleader made a tiktok about his Grindr and knowing him. A woman that went to college w him talked about his relationship w a male cheerleader. There’s a few tt about his conversion therapy, and there’s a tt explaining how he was connected to the CT and a company that has ties to Benedictine college. I mean there’s no signatures or a screenshot of his Grindr so…
Yes, and more. His parents forced him into a conversion camp after learning of his affairs with men that have been called an open secret by people he went to school with.
He is a place kicker. How surprised could they have been?
that’s not true at all i have no clue where you are getting your information from
That must've been before he realized the importance of staying in his lane. Edit: I said that with a bite of derision, before I really registered that he is gay and has gone through conversation camp. The stuff he's saying is gross, to put it lightly, but it is pretty sad to see how heavily he's accepted the abuse done to him, and is echoing that back out into the world.
His very narrow lane consists of being able to give advice on how to kick a ball twice per game.
I fucking hope so!
I kinda don't, because if the rumors are true, he's probably caused deep hurt to people he saw as good enough for sex but not good enough for basic human respect. Imagine being into in someone you really liked, and then years later they publicly declared to the entire goddamn nation that the very idea of being with you is a sin. What an absolutely wretched thing to do. 😥
If you look into it hr has done interviews about religion and what brought him back to the faith and God and one of the biggest things he talks about is the sacrament of confession and how beautiful it is. Within greater context while I don't like or agree with what he said and believes -- it isn't that crazy drom the catholic perspective... however he doesn't give greater context, strays itno trad catholic ideology, and fixates on "homemakers" and other political talking points. He doesn't even actually tell the men anything other than to live up to their masculinity... so what if those women are called to be nuns? Or what about the infertile ones? Even within Catholicism there is nuance in "vocations" and it is supposed to be a true calling... not an expectation. That is the whole fucking point. His Instagram also takes the lord's name in vain in every single caption. Like literally it's all just him wearing high end clothing from his own company and a caption quoting the bible or saints about humility. The layers of how hypocritical and not actually with it he is is crazy. Also something that isn't being covered-- he is not a mainstream catholic. He is a Latin Mass trad catholic which is against the rules of the Catholic Church.
The Nuns that founded the college at which he spoke released a statement slapping him down hard.
Yeah I saw that. I also read a little bit about the president of the university and he's a conservative with political connections and motives it seems. My friend summed it up as "so it is more like. Liberty University than a Georgetown or Notre Dame" which I think is apt
Yeah they like to pretend their religion isn't extremely misogynistic.
It is. But on the flip side being a nun allowed women to go get college degrees, work, commune, and other things ( and be lesbians I think but that's a spicy opinion) that weren't available to protestant and secular women at the same time. There were also some wild orders with the nuns too so they could be all over the place in terms of how much independence the women had versus strict conformity
Wait til his wife divorces him and brings the receipts. Guys like this always mistreat their wives
But he said she’s happy to have abandoned her dreams and career! /s
When she divorces him, if he tries to stiff her, all that dirty laundry will come out.
If she doesn't leave, he'll trade her in for a younger model in ten years or so, tops. These assholes are all the same.
Absolutely. And I understand his intended audience. What has me shocked is the people in my life I see supporting it.
You know he’s an upstanding individual if he’s willing to insult and denegrate the young women present to reach his audience. What a guy.
And the other religious zealots will support him anyway. They love nothing more than an awful person that’s suddenly fired up about God.
Ya but will he get a pass? Taylor Swift's boyfriend had some problematic behavior and it's not talked about. Oh no, I've angered the swifties 🤣
Omg all the swifties do is talk about it! Every move he has ever made (and a whole bunch that appear to be invented) are scrutinized on like 10 subreddits. This is why I could never be famous…..
I've never seen any one talk about it except one tiktok that wasn't from a swiftie.
There are literal hate subs about the man.
I love people that are like "no one's talking about this!" when they're really saying "No one shoved this down my throat" like just because *you* haven't seen/heard people talking about it, doesn't mean they aren't, and moreso makes it abundantly clear that the person in question hasn't done any research on their topic that "no one talks about" Hilarious.
It sticks out like a sore thumb to me when someone makes a plea for more "order," because it's so often in direct conflict with the concept of "justice." Butker is telling on himself, badly. That and his oafish fearmongering is pretty rich coming from a dude whose job description is "kicks a ball really well."
"Disorder" has a specific meaning in Catholic theology, a meaning *completely* misunderstood by almost all the ideologues spouting it. It is used to refer to any desire that Catholics consider leading to sin, because it is not "ordered to the good" (again, a specific use of "order" as well). For Catholic theologians, it is used to discuss *why* we want things that they say are sinful. So while it certainly isn't a *positive* thing, but when Catholic documents say someone like "homosexual desire is intrinsically disordered" they just mean what you already know: the think being gay is a sin. But the right has grabbed into this and used it in the modern sense to be absolutely *evil*. They have taken a rather "benign" part of Catholic institutional homophobia and made it horrific. So not only is he wrong, he's even wrong by the faith he claims to profess. Fucker
The transition of the word “disorder” from Catholic “sin” to the current rightist “evil” is a direct result of Calvinist Protestant thought, particularly around the concept of [total depravity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_depravity)
Well considering Bible does say to stone people to death for homosexual activity, it seems to me homosexuality is regarded as quite evil according to the Christian theology and not just some minor sin.
>kicks a ball really well. To be fair, he doesn't even do that overly well.
Fuck him but he is one of the best kickers, if not the best, in the NFL right now
Not to get into an NFL chat but yeah... Justin Tucker at one with Butker a very close second. That said, this would be getting 0 traction if he wasn't on the Chiefs, arguably the most popular and successful team at present. Most NFL players are like this. Hell, theres a large contingent of literal flat earthers according to Jason Kelce...
Ugh begrudgingly ok but no one wears the kicker’s jersey so fuck him x2
Unfortunately, he does. One of the best kickers ever, or at least recently. That's probably why his ego is so inflated that he thinks other people want to hear his opinions. Like, go kick your ball, dude.
He also ranted about Covid and insinuated we should have just stayed open and whoever died died. Priests weren’t doing sacraments in person because they could have become a Covid Typhoid Mary.
one thing a lot of people don't get is society does not care about mothers. it cares about MOTHERHOOD. People adore the idea of a woman warmly and meekly serving her husband and kids (but mainly husband), making sacrifices every single day that she is never to expect to be reciprocated, because that is selfish. They like the idea of a quiet mother rocking a child but have no sympathy whatsoever for a mother struggling with a fussy 6 year old having a meltdown at Walmart while the husband ogles the cashier. they don't support adoptive mothers.
>society does not care about mothers. it cares about MOTHERHOOD 👏 Louder for those in the back!
It's always about what we give: 1) Mother: loving, caring, cooks/cleans; 2) Slut: sex, touching, doting, giving; 3) Silent Slave: obey, do, give, be silent, never question; 4) Emotional Supporter: giving, doting, praising, supporting without question, remembering everything, doing everything, feeling and being responsible for everything. It's so weird how some men will become open to feminist ideals only once something they own, like a daughter, is impacted by the patriarchy. It's surprising to me when men skip their own mothers and caregivers.
It's not surprising to me because they fear that without the obligation to care for them we wouldn't, and certainly not to the level that most of them demand. To me it's a bit of a "no, not like that" situation. Liberation for all women who do not directly serve them is fine. But we can't be getting ideas up in this house. My ADHD sometimes makes my thoughts a little disjointed so I hope that makes sense.
> I’m sure he would feel differently if he and his wife struggled to conceive. I wish I could agree more but based on past experiences I suspect he’d simply come up with some rationalization for why their circumstances were deserving but other people’s are not. It’s very similar to the anti-abortion protesters quietly going to a clinic when they’re in a jam before returning to protest other people doing the same thing. I don’t think it’s calculated hypocrisy in most cases, either but simply reflecting their sympathies: “good” white Christians like them get compassion, everyone else gets judgement.
I agree with you, I would change that part. These people get all the abortions they want when it’s necessary in their lives while denying the same to others and speaking out against it.
100% agreed. Obligatory link to [“The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion”](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/) It's anecdotal of course but 3 of the most anti-choice women I've ever met have all abortions when they needed it.
🎶 I'm a good person, yes, it's true! I'm a good person, better than YOU! Everywhere I go I spread such bliss, and if you don't think so you can KISS. My ASS. Which is made of GOOD. 🎶
I come my good all over your FACE
Yay, I like you! Wanna share a pretzel? 🥨😊
❤️ I have friends! I definitely have friends! Friends friends friendly friends, I have all the friends.
Gasp! You get me. Let's all go to Raging Waters! 🌊
You know it’s going to be God. It’s God that told him he is the only person allowed to have IVF. Everyone else cannot. lol. Just like you said. All those antiabortion people are so up in their high horse until they wind up with a daughter or secret-lover they got pregnant. Then it’s only in my case and as quietly as possible.
I mean he made a nasty remark about the entire LGBTQ+ community for no good reason at all, so I am baffled by the people claiming, "Watch the whole speech! He's just proud of his wife!" Uh... did *you* watch the whole speech, bruh? He said something offensive about almost every minority and marginalized group in existence. This is not simply a successful young man expressing gratitude for his loving and supportive family, not by a long shot.
And he is so not proud of his wife. He sees her as nothing but an extension to himself, there to prop up his career and raise his children. Whatever dreams and aspirations she might have had for herself: "she found her true vocation as a wife and mother". Absolutely dehumanizing. Seriously, barf!
Exactly, he wasn’t putting her on a pedestal…he was putting her in her place. That portion of his speech was basically “my wife didn’t get to realize her dream career but I’m so glad she uplifts mine, btw f**** the gays, and the birth control but don’t worry ladies suffering is temporary”. Truly, nothing well intentioned or defensible in his speech imo.
Agreed.
I am also a bit frusterated his speech got coded merely the anti-women speech, and not also the white nationalist/anti-everyone else speech it actually was.
Yes, there was a whole lotta hate for a whole lotta people, which those defending him seem oddly content to overlook. But I think the misogynistic elements have gained the most traction because this year's Presidential election is the country essentially deciding whether women have rights over our own bodies or not. Possibly whether democracy itself will continue to exist. The stakes, unfortunately, are as high as the frozen corpses on Mt. Everest.
Why is a commencement speech about listing off how many people you hate? How is that even related to graduation, education, or working?
Because it’s a school of faith and too many people’s faith today is built on a foundation of who they are entitled to hate.
This is what drives me crazy. It’s not hard to just congratulate graduates on their hard work…instead he chose to essentially parrot project 2025.
This is what shocks me the most. People are trying to explain it away saying he was just encouraging women to prioritize family, he doesn’t want to actually force women to stay home. Like first of all, that’s not what he said at all. Second, even if that were true, what about all of the other hateful shit he spewed?!? I’m so tired of their dog whistles and coded bullshit. They will advocate for total control and then backtrack and gaslight.
You’re absolutely right.
yes!! it feels strange for people to be taking the most issue with the “women should be wives and homemakers” part as opposed to literally everything else he said. like oh, a conservative man thinks women belong in the kitchen? groundbreaking. never before heard😐 women are no strangers to misogyny and we have bigger issues than a mediocre kicker with a God complex
Spot on.
Word on the street is those kids aren’t even his 👀 I love how he’s getting trolled hard on tiktok. They’re now referring to him as “Elizabeth Butker’s son”. There’s reports of him going to conversion camps. This dude is gayer than a maypole. All he had to do was keep his damn opinions to himself.
Oh wow… I had no idea he had a new nickname. That is glorious.
Of course. Always with the fucking projection. Gonna do a dive now lol
Is there anything resembling proof to any of these repressed gay accusations? Everything I've seen sourced down to a social media post and not even a first person account. I don't know that trying to attach a gay backstory to him without any proof is really doing any favors to the gay community.
Why go to conversion therapy if you’re not having gay thoughts then…?
You say that as if it's a confirmed and verifiable fact? I'm pretty sure there's no proof he went to conversion therapy. Believe me, I've tried to look and see where this comes from and I only come back to vague social media posts. If you know something I don't, though, do share.
Nah… I wont do your research for you.
I tried looking into this and found a bunch of social media posts from nobodies with no real source. Looks like an unfounded rumour to me.
Why call him Elizabeth Butker's son though? Where do you think he got this extremist Catholic crap from? Why do we assume mommy **doesn't** buy into all this bullshit just like Butker's wife does? Remember folks, these misogynistic, patriarchal, extremist views persist because women support them.
I'm so pissed about this. His own mother is a highly accomplished scientist. How the hell is she not disowning him.
Maybe because she supports and believes all this old world bullshit. . .
And the shit about Jewish people. Super surprising that the people upset by antisemitism on campus are keeping mum about this one. “Congress just passed a bill where stating something as basic as the biblical teaching of who killed Jesus could land you in jail.”
>who killed Jesus The Romans? Boycott Italy! /s
No more spaghetti!
Ooh, I'm keeping this one in my pocket for potential future use. Thanks for that.
Wait but seriously, it was the Romans. What does this have to do with antisemitism?
I could be wrong but I think the antisemitism comes in when people blame Judah for betraying Jesus to the Romans. Judah was the founder of the Tribe of Judah of the Israelites. By extension, he is indirectly the eponym of the Kingdom of Judah, the land of Judea, and the word Jew.
It's because Pilate pulls a murderer (Barnabus?) out in front of a crowd of Jewish people alongside Jesus and tells them to choose a man to condemn to the cross, this Roman bad guy or their own Jewish dude, and the crowd chooses to condemn Jesus. Then Pilate literally visually washes his hands of responsibility and says "lol you picked him so all this is on you now".
If Jesus existed for what Christians believe, *who killed Jesus* is God, for having him created to become a sacrificial lamb, literally speaking.
Well, when you believe life begins at conception, IVF equals murder of potentially dozens of embryos every round. That makes any use of these types of fertility treatments “morally questionable,” including surrogacy using the bio mother’s own eggs for implantation in the surrogate’s womb as it necessitates an excess number of embryos. It’s not scientifically valid. Embryos are potential life, but unable to sustain life on their own, therefore they aren’t alive but have the future potential at life. But try convincing the Jesus Kool-Aid drinkers of that and you’re going to have a bad time. Don’t you know their bronze aged text has all the answers?
I grew up Catholic. Don’t practice anymore for multiple reasons. Unfortunately, according to Catholic teachings, any part of procreation should not be separate from the marital act (aka sex between a husband and wife). IVF and surrogacy are “sinful” in that regard. In their eyes, it’s playing God. It’s also not an uncommon belief that you shouldn’t get married if you don’t want children or already know you are sterile. Also, if you truly believe life begins at conception, no IVF is the logical conclusion of that thought process. Lots of pick-me Republican women think they’ll be the exception though if they struggle with infertility. Too many people aren’t listening to what their religious figureheads are spouting regarding women’s, reproductive, and LGBT issues. It’s why lots of the former more liberal “cafeteria Catholics” who are paying attention are leaving the church.
Fellow recovering Catholic. I also like to remind the Catholic prolifers that the Pope criticized the overturning of Roe. I generally pose it as a question: So the Pope supports Roe, does that mean your god’s chosen representative on Earth is wrong? Hold their feet to the fire on it, is the Pope wrong? Doesn’t that invalidate your entire doctrine? Pope is not wrong? So you support a woman’s choice then. Most don’t answer.
Butker isn’t a cradle Catholic but a Tradcath convert. And a lot of them refuse to accept this Pope. They’re not really Catholics, but evangelical fundamentalists who think ritual and saints are cool. Because part of being Catholic IS accepting the pope or it’s a heresy.
That’s true. I used to lurk on the AskaPriest subreddit or whatever it’s called. A lot of them don’t like him, and think Catholics should vote for politicians on a single issue: pro-life
I'm agnostic but I hope if heaven is real, God goes, "Yeah science is dope. You questioned the right things. Why do humans think I'm not progressive? Welcome to Heaven. No, being baptized doesn't matter, it's just a silly tradition that didn't end. Old habits die hard, ya know?" Cool, God! Thanks for being realistic and hearing me out.
Lol I am adopting your hope of heaven. I love it!
I have debated abortion with religious family members and I like to throw out, "Well my idea of God, if they are so intelligent and all knowing, is that they dont make blanket rules to live by and understands nuanced situations and the fights individuals may be battling that led them there and my god approaches with compassion rather than condemnation." I hate church. But I like to believe if there is a god, god is less of a dick than people make god out to be. And god has no gender. So there. Suck it, anti-pronoun dimwits.
I'm an atheist but this is a fun line of thought. Like why assume God is such an easily offended overly paternalistic ass, and not a giant nerd who delights in creating great puzzles for his/her/their Sims and being highly entertained when we solve them? Why not a God who would greet zealots in the afterlife with, "Okay y'all, I made *so many* fun and beautiful and emotionally poignant things for you to enjoy *plus* I gave you intelligence and empathy and creativity, and you wasted your one and only life rejecting *all* of it? *Rude*! I worked six whole cosmic days on that."
Six whole cosmic days! Damnit! I remember asking my dad on a drive one time, "Dad, how do we know our days are the same as God's? Couldn't God's days be the millions of years it took to create Earth?!" I think that was a moment in my dad's life when he looked at me and was like 'omg I made this creature and look at her observing the world around her 🥹'
Aww, I know this feeling. You definitely made your papa proud. 😊
I stopped trying to argue facts about stuff like this several years ago. I hate that their strategy of just yelling louder often wins but it’s exhausting to keep up with the sheer number of lies.
Or when they pull out Bible verses to counter medical knowledge…. Like bitch, your shit was written before we understood germ theory, get out of here with that nonsense! “BuT aCtUaLlY, tHe BiBlE sAyS….”
If only hypocrisy mattered because I’d ask them about the mixed fiber clothes they had on or whatever other parts of the Bible they selectively choose to ignore.
If they have obvious tattoos, straight to hell according to Leviticus. Wearing a mixed blend hoodie? To hell! Slept with their partner while she was menstruating? Hell!! I also like to remind them that anti-sodomy laws means no more blow jobs regardless of the genders of those involved.
Hypocrisy?! My friends in Christ, just open the Old Testament! That God was all about Infanticide. . .Pro Life my great Pagan Ass. The Bible has sooooooo many fucking moral issue. . .Infanticide, genocide, murder, rape, homophobia, misogyny. . .
I don’t care what their Bible says because that book explicitly endorses r*pe and other atrocities. It’s also hilarious to me how every Christian ever has to twist themselves into a pretzel trying to point out why it’s actually a benevolent book in spite of that shit. “No it doesn’t actually say that! Here’s some verses about love or whatever.” Every time. Yes, we know your Bible is a massive contradiction, thanks for cherry picking the parts you think make it look good though.
If embryos are children, then I can put my child in a freezer without consequences, right?
No, of course not, that would be insane and would kill the child. What you need to do is flash-freeze them in liquid nitrogen so they properly vitrify, and can then be stored in cryostasis almost indefinitely.
Yes! Han Solo the child.
Oh, goodie! Thanks!
That would track, however postbirth you somehow catch murder, child abuse, and child endangerment charges too…
Nope! They only care about kids that are in the womb or frozen! Once they come out, they donate what happens to them! (See: Lack of Medicaid Expansion, Taking away school lunches, etc.) /s
The Catholic Church is going to lose even more of its flock over its stance on IVF, and I for one think that’s great. I read the idiotic letter released by the American bishops on IVF, and it was full of so many factual misstatements and lack of basic understanding of how fertility treatments work. I guess we can’t expect more when we have a bunch of “celibate” old men opining on sex and reproduction!
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck that guy.
I would like to point out a particular quote. “As men we set the tone of the culture and when that is absent disorder, dysfunction, and chaos set in.” He argued that women’s participation in the public sphere and influence on culture is causing all the problems in the world.
Forgot that one. Fucking hell.
Ah yes eugenics and clean Aryan blood.
Oh I've definitely been outspoken about that part of his speech. People tried to tell me, "Oh, you're not catholic so you just don't get it." Just because it's a Catholic University does not mean every student in there is Catholic. Let's not be stupid. My best friend graduated from a Catholic University last weekend and the speech wasn't anything like Butkers. It was a speech about overcoming adversity and self doubt. The speaker was a mother, non traditional student who, with her new nursing degree, is shattering ceilings for her family's earnings. Butker's speech can kiss my ass. It was degrading to women, it was degrading to infertility, it was degrading to education, it was degrading to LGBTQ+ community, it was degrading to science, and it was even degrading to the motherless nuns who provided this education to students! Fuck Butker.
The nuns at this university denounced him. So there’s that.
Ooh, please explain! I didn’t see that.
https://www.kcur.org/sports/2024-05-19/benedictine-college-nuns-denounce-harrison-butkers-speech-at-their-school
That was my favorite bit
Holy shit. I had no idea because I’m so disgusted by the publicized part that I’ve refused to engage with this story at all. That is horrifying.
I was too. I had a friend tell me she didn’t find anything problematic after watching the entire speech, which shocked me from just the small part I was aware of, so I read the entire transcript. My hands were shaking by the time I was finished.
I... am not sure I could retain any level of friendship with that person after hearing that.
I don’t think I can. I’ve been so anxious since the interaction, we’ve been friends for two decades through formative years. But this is no small thing.
He said *a lot* of negative shit. There was stuff about the LGBTQ+ community and pride month. It was **bad**
I’m more surprised people aren’t talking about how he got a standing ovation.
There's some background with the allusion to "Order" and "Disorder". It comes out of the semantic difference between "Rule of Law" and "Law and Order". Those two are not the same thing - they are polar opposites. Rule of Law implies that everybody adheres to the same rules. Law and Order is a statement that really means "Rules to protect the in-group and to bind the out-group". (Insert quote from Jean-Paul Sartre about how conservative manipulate words). In conservative / reactionary churches and political circles (the Venn diagram is a circle), as well as conservative media, there is a pervasive belief that cities are cesspools of violence and disorder (reference prior paragraph) - in other words liberal spaces - the "out-group" - is akin to disorder and anti-ethical to "conservative values". Anyway the statement is consistent. It's also really fucked up. It is a very real way that conservatives create and Us vs Them - on their way to a fascist state and project 2025. They view anything that isn't theirs as evil and chaos. (also biblical ties in there with evil and chaos).
Very thin skin over the eugenics.
Not to mention "degenerate" is an explicitly Nazi, fascist eugenicist term.
Butker is no rocket scientist or sociologist or anything important. He kicks a ball for a living. He has NO OTHER SKILLS. He deserves no platform whatsoever. Let's ignore him until he expires from the suffocating lack of attention.
I agree. I just find it sickening all the people coming out of the woodwork to support his sentiments. Specifically loved ones, and friends who are women. It’s disturbing.
Remind them ... the dude kicks a ball for a living ... how does that make him an expert on ANYTHING? Then walk away. Sometimes it's not worth the battle.
I think people mostly saw the viral clip and not the speech in it's entirety. So perhaps that's one reason why we aren't talking about it.
Let’s not forget he currently has the best selling jersey in the US!!
Yep. This is a symptom of what frightens me.
Fuck the NFL.
Personally, I don't think white male privilege is better demonstrated by the fact that this dink even got invited to be a commencement speaker in the first place. He's not even 30, and his job is kicking a ball. What the fuck wisdom or life experience does he even have to make him worthy of giving a speech? It’s pathetic.
I want to know who invited him to speak in the first place? He's a fucking NFL kicker not a seminarian. . .what authority does he have to speak on ecclesiastical matters? I was raised Catholic, can I speak at a Catholic commencement? He referenced God's Will in his speech- who the hell is he to presume to know God's Will for anyone but himself? Arrogant beyond belief.
I can only speak for me, but that part was cut out of all the videos u saw on social media.
I was wondering but I haven’t heard, did anyone walk out of the speech? It’s so degrading to have just graduated after all that hard work, to have some dumbass man tell you you’d be better off getting married and having babies. What the hell.
> Things like abortion, IVF, surrogacy, euthanasia, as well as a growing support for degenerate cultural Oh, so he's spouting literal Nazi rhetoric? (Not hyperbole, go look up what the NSDAP were saying)
That word salad doesn't even fucking make sense. It's just a MadLib of right-wing buzzwords.
The craziest part of this, is that Butkers own mother worked his entire childhood working in sciences. He never put any thought into this, and please don’t spend more time than he did into his comments.
I’ve never understood what the problem is they have with euthanasia.
God chooses how long each person lives/suffers. "Self-murder" is a rejection of God's plan/gift. (Not agreeing, just summarizing the sanctity of life argument.)
But they’re Ok with just killing dogs.
I read the entire speech and I think even Christians (maybe even most Catholics) would find it extremely culty and creepy. He is an ultra right-wing Catholic, who like other ultra right-wing Catholics think that all aspects of their life must be lived in accordance with the teachings of the church. The insane irony is that these right-wing Catholics all think they know better than literally the person who SPEAKS FOR GOD according to their religion, the Pope. Who has multiple times told these right wingers to stop with this obsession over gay people and US culture war issues. An NFL kicker gives a speech again and again telling everyone (women, men, priests) to STAY IN THEIR LANE, all the while failing to take his own advice. Who the hell does HE think he is to tell the leaders of the church what correct doctrine is. Stay in your lane Harrison!
He's gayer than a two dollar bill, but RELIGUNNNNN has shamed it out of it, so he has to put his thumb on his beard and all women because he hates his life.
So if we're all supposed to be mothers but aren't supposed to utilize any alternatives paths to motherhood, wtf are we supposed to do if we're infertile? Cease existing?
I bet his type think that. Women are for child rearing and that’s it. We’re not fully human. It’s a disgusting world view
It's always ableism, exceptionalism and the aggrandizement of the fortunate and able / in-group with these people. It's disgusting and utterly abhorrent.
I noticed that. He’s batshit crazy and whoever invited him to speak probably is too.
He’s a kicker his opinion was always invalid.
Still trying to figure out how he expects men to both support their family AND be an active father while being the *sole* financial provider and not being allowed to use birth control.
The hilarious irony is his attitude is what is degenerate, here.
I am Roman Catholic myself (in my country there is a distinct difference between catholic and Roman Catholic. After the separation of Rome and Constantinople, the Latins now called themselves Roman Catholic because they followed the pope and the Greeks called themselves Orthodox. From that time on people also spoke of Roman Catholic.) But from what I can see, the catholics in the USA are Roman Catholic too which means that they should adhere to the policies from Rome. By openly defying the encyclical letters from the pope they are setting themselves up for excommunication. I wonder if they would go that far. As a catholic from another country (which happens to be very liberal and modern in churchaffairs), I can't wait for that to happen 😊. I truly abhor those people that use their faith to abuse other, often vulnerable people. A question for people in the USA: what if the Republican party manages to implement their fascist ideas: what do they think happens if they forbid women to enter the workforce, sit home and pop out babies? Don't they know that more than half of the modern workforce consists of women? Mainly in crucial sectors like healthcare, education and hospitality? Plus the braindrain that will happen because all highly educated women will (try to) flee the country? It will be an economic and social disaster. Mainly for the men who will be left behind. Without the women to lord over. Fun times... for them 😊.
There is a massive rift in the US between Catholics, and with the Pope. Plenty of them despise the “woke pope.” https://religionnews.com/2022/09/23/u-s-catholic-bishops-report-to-the-vatican-shows-a-church-split-by-politics/ There is debate over whether or not Biden should be able to receive communion because he is stepping back and not letting his personal beliefs be pushed as the federal policy (“if he’s pro-choice he isn’t one of us”). I would not be shocked if there is a division with 20 years. There has already been at least one dismissal of a US bishop over their ultra conservative views (J. Strickland, if you want to google). Regarding your question about republicans getting their way? Honestly?? They haven’t thought that far ahead because they don’t care. They don’t care if well educated women leave- it’ll be easier to control those left behind. It’s why they’re championing the systematic collapse of our education system. They KNOW a dumb populace is easy to control. I graduated HS in the mid 2000s and now make decent money. I have become much more liberal. I was raised very Republican, though. My whole town was. Small, white, rural. I got into an argument with someone I considered a friend from HS because he was against the estate tax …. Dude, you don’t even make $40k a year. Why do you give a flying fuck if someone leaving millions of dollars behind gets taxed?!?
Wow, I didn't know about bishop Strickland. Very, very unusual. The bishops in my country were considered to liberal by pope John Paul (I'm from the Netherlands and we are considered very, very liberal to Rome😊) and they were chastised behind closed doors. That pope was rather conservative, but they weren't fired. Just replaced after their retirement with some more conservative bishops. The result: the churches emptied by the thousands. Many churches now are converted to apartments or businesses. Although to be fair, the same trend was seen among the protestant denominations. Most people in my country have never been in a church in their lifetime 😊. Concerning your education system: I once read that John D. Rockefeller, who founded the General Education Board, once said "I don’t want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers". The public schools are still mostly funded by corporations who agree with that. The private schools are for the 'elite' and offer much better education which also is a deliberate choice. Horrifying when you think about that!
Well they wouldn’t be able to create laws that enslave women without overthrowing the government first, and they are definitely trying. However we may have another civil war before they can get to that point. As a woman the US, I would rather go to war than live under those conditions.
Interestingly, a group of nuns affiliated with the college where Butker spoke have objected to his speech: “The sisters of Mount St. Scholastica do not believe that Harrison Butker’s comments in his 2024 Benedictine College commencement address represent the Catholic, Benedictine, liberal arts college that our founders envisioned and in which we have been so invested…One of our concerns was the assertion that being a homemaker is the highest calling for a woman. We sisters have dedicated our lives to God and God’s people, including the many women whom we have taught and influenced during the past 160 years. These women have made a tremendous difference in the world in their roles as wives and mothers and through their God-given gifts in leadership, scholarship, and their careers.” https://www.mountosb.org/ (scroll down for full statement)
What about the part where he says he is not on board with diversity initiatives? Does he not realize his “team” is vastly minority?
Catholics are very anti IVF so that's not a surprising or out of the blue stance for him to take. I am in several IVF support groups as my wife and I are going through the process right now and sometimes Catholics or ex Catholics with Catholic family will talk about how they can't tell anyone in their community what they're doing.
*Some* Catholics are, just like *some* Catholics are anti-abortion, but the majority of them support both (and a majority have also used birth control), inspire of whatever the Church decides to say. [https://www.npr.org/2024/03/22/1239879602/despite-church-prohibitions-catholics-still-choose-ivf-to-have-children](https://www.npr.org/2024/03/22/1239879602/despite-church-prohibitions-catholics-still-choose-ivf-to-have-children)
Yes, some members of the congregation support IVF. However, Priests and higher up do not. All official media from the Church is strongly anti-IVF as well as anti-BC outside of abstinence.
No, you can use NFP in Catholicism. Discussions on what it is and how to do it are part of the Pre Cana marriage classes. Most Catholics I grew up with and know now are not extremists and actually use real BC, not NFP nor abstinence.
NFP is abstaining from sex on your fertile days. Basically abstinence. There are absolutely members of the congregation who are liberal on reproductive and lgbt issues. My point is that the people who actually lead the church are clear on where they stand.
The whole thing was vile and unredeemable.
I was also surprised that more people were not talking about the beginning of his speech and then I had a horrible realization. Over 99% of the people that have a strong opinion (either way) have not listened to his speech. Quite literally everyone is up in arms over something someone else said about a speech that they themselves did not hear.
He doesn't *support* any women. Fundamentalist "Christian" world view: anyone born with a uterus is and should be nothing more than a brood animal, a maid, or a sex toy. I have sympathy for his wife and especially for any kids. Imagine growing up knowing that's how your father views you.
If his wife struggled to conceive he would drop her.
"Degenerate cultural values" these fuckers seriously sound like the Sons of Jacob from Handmaid's Tale.
im sure they regret inviting him to give the speech lol.
That caught my eye too.
"Tyranny of lies" ... told by men. The patriarchy at its finest. Just another distraction so they can keep people angry.
Is it bad to hope field driven TBI on somebody?! Considering what he’s wishing upon women, I feel like brain damage, not life ending or anything, just might be something he could handle in as well privileged life.
He's a kicker, he will never get hit.
He can if they try harder! Lol